Third Party & Independents Archives

Opinions are like .......

……
You know the saying.
How long until we vote for a new President?
Campaigns COST too much and last WAY too long.

How many people are actually paying attention to the candidates for the '08 Presidential Election?
It is summer vacation for some, and nearing the end of the school year for others.

People are planning vacations, already on vacation, or really don't care at this point.

I have two candidates I am watching right now.

From the right - Romney
From the left - Tancredo

The issues that interest me the most:
Border protection, immigration, Iraq, taxes, gas prices, and the divide in our nation.

It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame the high gas prices on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame what happened in New Orleans on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE that people blame our situation with radical Islam on Bush.

I could go on BUT my point is:
The President is NOT solely responsible for all that is bad AND cannot take credit for ALL that is good.

Maybe I should have put the divide in our nation first.

NOTHING will be 'fixed' as long as 'We the People' continue to let our politicians play us against each other.

I joined Watchblog for a reason. When I first started, things were a little different here.

PEOPLE ACTUALLY DISCUSSED ISSUES.

It was my understanding that the writers were to bring issues into a discussion by explaining why they felt they leaned a certain way on them.
We have been shown how the number of visitors has risen.
At the same time I have NOT seen new people joining in on the discussions.
IMO it is because too many people that respond at this site are SO dead set in their opinion OR their party that the 'newbies' don't want to leave a message.
'Newbies' are not really learning anything and chances are they will not return due to the anemosity that has built up at this site.

I am writing this with the hopes that those who write, and respond, try to do so without diminishing the opinions of others.

Posted by Dawn at June 3, 2007 12:12 AM
Comments
Comment #222052

Thank You dawn.

many have a hard time arguing an intelectually honest debate, with-out name calling and twisting facts.

I posted the following post in the dem side and the conversation ended. The point fits with many arguments:


The difference between you and I when it comes to poverty lies not in our great want for all to live a decent, comfortable life. It comes in how we each believe the task needs to be accomplished. You as a leftist, would give the government the job of taking from the rich to GIVE to the poor. The problem with this way is that holding a job and self sufficiency are vital for good self esteem. When you GIVE a man something, most of the time it is not as well taken care of as if the man worked for it.

I would accomplish the task by free market democracy. Let the people vote for our leadership, and let them vote with their money as to which companies and products make it. The nice thing about this way is that it has proven itself. Some problems? Yes. Always! your computer has problems, your marriage has problems, a Boing passenger jet today had engine problems. But it works. We live a standard of living here that is unmatched any where in the world and any where in history. Have we made mistakes? Yes! Many, Slavery, Indians, in our relationships, as teachers in our classrooms, with our employers, our employees, with our children! Our Poverty ridden still live a standard of living unmatched in 90% of the world. People from all over the world are begging to come here to live in poverty. 12 million of them are breaking the law and risking their freedom to live HERE in poverty!


Now you lefties! Don’t pick details out of my writing like my %90 It might be %95) and debate my sentences. Stand up and debate the philosophies.

Tell me why a socialist system with strong governmental control of business and peoples freedom (like you find in Cuba) is better than our free market democracy. Tell me why the free market system is bad. Tell me why working hard in this country and having it pay the big bonuses is so wrong. Debate me on how your way is the best way to solve the problem the world has always had of some people having lots of money and some having none.
Posted by: scott at May 26, 2007 01:35 AM
Poor Americans are Doing Just Fine

Posted by: scottie at June 3, 2007 2:32 AM
Comment #222053

Dawn, I read one of your post’s a couple months ago and thought “I feel 100% the same”, the arguments were pretty heated and I just wanted to say that so I didn’t post. I hope you write more.

I loved Tancredo in the debates, is he left? I’m with you it’s too early but I mentally put him in my mind for later study. I thought Romney looked and sounded like the most electable. It is early but since you brought it up, I’ll ask what positions make Tancredo left. Maybe the ones I agree with.

Again, I want to say another great post.

Posted by: andy at June 3, 2007 2:41 AM
Comment #222055

come on people are you kidding me:
Dawn said: “From the left - Tancredo”

from his own website: “Tom Tancredo is a lifelong conservative with nearly a decade of experience in the U.S. Congress. There he advanced his reputation as a solid pro-life, pro-gun, small government Republican, and emerged as the leader in the national struggle for true immigration reform.”

http://www.teamtancredo.com/tancredo_meettom_index.asp

Dawn: “It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame the high gas prices on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame what happened in New Orleans on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE that people blame our situation with radical Islam on Bush.”

Well it is unbelievable to me that when anyone actually reads all of your posts you always make Bush like he is some damn saint.


Posted by: Richard Rhodes at June 3, 2007 4:03 AM
Comment #222056

Dawn, you must have been reading different articles than I.

My recollection of my own and many other critical articles were not what you said, but, the following:

People blame the high gas prices on Bush for a number of valid reasons, such as NO Leadership on the issue of oil dependence for 4.5 years of his presidency, his lack of leadership in asking for more refineries, his totally unjustified invasion of Iraq which affected oil prices.

People blamed Bush what DIDN’T HAPPEN happened after Katrina passed through, and for what is still left undone.

People, now some conservatives and the National Intelligence Community, blame our situation with radical Islam on Bush in part due to his Iraqi invasion having aided and abetted the growth of our enemies.

If you don’t blame Bush and Republicans for the above and much more like the 3 trillion addition to our national debt in 6.5 years and porous borders now 4.5 years after 9/11, what I find Unbelievable is any claim to being an independent or third party supporter.

And all of these are the issues facing the voters today. And they have been written on extensively here at WatchBlog, and much of those writings were fact based.

Posted by: David R. Remer at June 3, 2007 5:53 AM
Comment #222067

David, Dawn,

If we know who to blame for high gas prices (Bush), Hurricane Katrina (Bush), Radical Islamisists (Bush)…then we certainly know who to blame for lying about pork in our budget. Bush? Nope! Guess again.


Democrats Hide Pet Projects From Voters.


Posted by: Jim T at June 3, 2007 7:52 AM
Comment #222076

Dawn, Ive been coming to this site for a little over a year now and have commented on and off for the biggest share of that time. The main reason I come to this site to the exclusion of most other political sites is for the difference of opinion. The divide in our country is real and it should be a major issue. As a writer here I dont see where you have attempted anything positive as far as healing this divide. As an example “From the left Tancredo” or “It is UNBELIEVABLE to me …Bush yadayadayayda”. You have expressed an unwavering opinion yet will take exception should another poster differ from that view. Perhaps a ” I don’t UNDERSTAND why…Bush…YadaYadaYada” would not offend as much and would allow for dialogue that is more positive.

Scottie, Why do you lump all those on the left as socialist and then ask that we respond to your general misunderstanding of the left in lieu of specific statements you have made? And in a thread where the author is asking for a reasonable discussion of ideas. IMHO you have just made Dawns point. To me free market is just another name for fascist corporate control of our country and the word democracy should not be affilited with free market as democracy is a system of government and free market is a system of economics. That doesnt make me a socialist that believes that all business should be state owned, however I am a for a managed capitalist system of economics.

Posted by: j2t2 at June 3, 2007 9:46 AM
Comment #222094

Dawn,

I agree the polemics here is sometimes thick, but I do read many posters who offer support for their arguments, and I do learn a lot here. I have been a long time reader, and only recently began to post.

Everyone has an opinion, or they likely wouldn’t post. As to the length of elections, I’m not convinced that they are too long, but they are too expensive. I don’t mind a long conversation to delve deeply into issues. There isn’t enough of that, in my opinion. As to the money, I don’t know a good way to control that. I don’t think anyone has come up with a good way to do that yet. TV is the largest expense. Perhaps that is where we need to look.

Frankly, Bush is to partly blame for all the issues above. Not totally, but he has done nothing to move us toward resolution of these issues, except invade Afghanistan. Then he stopped at Pakistan and made a crazy swing into Iraq.
I’ll leave it at that.

I am supporting Ron Paul. I am normally an independent voter. I think he offers a change in the blah, blah, blah dialog that both parties offer. I realize he’s a long shot, but he is speaking about what I believe are the real issues and truths of our overreaching and overspent government.


Posted by: barneygoogle at June 3, 2007 1:00 PM
Comment #222095

Dawn, I’ve been reading your posts for quite some time, and find that you are significantly more severe in your statements than those you critique. Your title says it all….. but your opinions refute it.

Posted by: Sandra Davidson at June 3, 2007 1:02 PM
Comment #222105
How many people are actually paying attention to the candidates for the ‘08 Presidential Election?

Umm… All of us at WatchBlog, I would guess. I know where I’ll be today at 7pm Eastern, 4 pacific. :)

From the right - Romney From the left - Tancredo

Dawn, I think you got that backwards, buddy. Romney is the gay marriage pro-abortion guy with the socialist healthcare plan. Tancredo is… one of the nine other angry old white guys running for the GOP nomination. Sorry, they all look alike to me.

NOTHING will be ‘fixed’ as long as ‘We the People’ continue to let our politicians play us against each other.

Testify, sister! BTW, I like how Fred Thompson said the same thing in his first press conference — and moments later made some pretty divisive statements about Democrats. It’s comforting to know that, no matter who runs as a Republican, they’re all hypocrites. They’re all ‘solid’ on that.

As for new posters, I constantly see new posters. I’m enjoying barneygoogle’s stuff, Jim T is fairly new and another favorite poster of mine. This may be the first time I’ve seen andy post. Heck, Dawn, I remember when you were a “newbie”. :)

Now that I think about it, thanks for giving me a chance to say “Welcome!” to all the newbies, Dawn. Bring it on, you guys! :)

Posted by: American Pundit at June 3, 2007 2:08 PM
Comment #222157

A year ago things were a bit different at Watchblog than they are now, but you exaggerate. Animosity certainly has increased, which surprised me quite a bit initially, but I still think there is plenty of reasonable discourse that goes on.

And as far as the election goes, of course people are not too fussed about it yet. There is still a year of campaigning left before we even get to the home stretch.

Posted by: Zeek at June 3, 2007 7:18 PM
Comment #222224

AP, what has Ron Paul been hypocritical about?

Posted by: barneygoogle at June 4, 2007 10:55 AM
Comment #222234

Dawn:
“From the right - Romney
From the left - Tancredo”

This is really funny to me on so many levels!

“It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame the high gas prices on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE to me that people blame what happened in New Orleans on Bush.
It is UNBELIEVABLE that people blame our situation with radical Islam on Bush.”

Well, it is UNBELIEVEABLE to me that more people aren’t more critical of this president and all the harm he and his administration have done. The very worst president and administration in our nation’s entire history should be receiving more honest and objective crticism, even from people on the right.

“I joined Watchblog for a reason. When I first started, things were a little different here.

PEOPLE ACTUALLY DISCUSSED ISSUES.”

Seems to me that people here are still discussing the issues, it’s just that things have gotten so much worse, and in so many ways, there is a great deal of anger being expressed as well. I think that’s only natural.
That being said, we’ve lost a lot of good, intelligent, long-time posters who added a lot to this blog (both left and right) over the years. Either because they became bored, or too busy to blog, or broke the rules and were never allowed to return again. I miss the presence of a lot of these people.
I miss Burt Caradine, and Joseph Briggs, and Aldous, and BayViking, and Norby, and tony, and more recently, Tim Crow and gergle, and oh, lots of others. And on the right I miss Kevin23, and even Joebagodonuts. Gone, but not forgotten.

Posted by: Adrienne at June 4, 2007 11:27 AM
Comment #222245

Dang! That’s right, Jbod. I miss him too. And whatever happened to Sicilian Eagle? But there are still plenty of good posters here and the format is still the best.

AP, what has Ron Paul been hypocritical about?

barney, I love Ron Paul. He’s a Libertarian’s Libertarian and I totally respect that. I lean libertarian myself, so I love listening to him, even if I disagree more often than not.

Posted by: American Pundit at June 4, 2007 12:59 PM
Comment #222272

From the right - Romney From the left - Tancredo


Left and Right simply meant DEMOCRAT and REPUBLICAN.

The blaming Bush stuff simply means that NO ONE can take responsibility for anything - left or right -

David - you speak like the world began the day Bush took office - this is another problem that causes the divide.

Yes….I’m a horrible and divisive person.

Posted by: Dawn at June 4, 2007 8:29 PM
Comment #222273

BTW - The title of an article is the FIRST chance to draw in a reader.

Posted by: Dawn at June 4, 2007 8:30 PM
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