Third Party & Independents: Archives

March 23, 2007

Remembering the Segregation Generation

Can you blame a generation for their times? Are the people in a society responsible for that society? If a person, or number of people, in a society stand by during mass oppression are they to blame?

To the older generation that stereotypes the younger generation I offer you the following:

Much can be said, in a negative manner, of those who stood by and let segregation occur. Yes, obviously, many people stood up against segregation. However, today we never seem to question the older generation, many of which who stood by and did nothing, or even supported segregation. We know that there are a great number of white adults who are now sixty years or older who either stood by and let segregation occur, or even supported it. Many of them are in high levels of business and government and are people whose opinions we actually consider enlightening.

These people were not living in Nazi Germany. They were not living in a country where they would be immediately killed for speaking out, yes some were killed but that was very very few.

Can people who stood by, or advocated such intense hatred be forgiven if they never actually apologized? Most of this generation never apologized in a formal manner. I leave this open for you to do so.

Posted by Richard Rhodes at March 23, 2007 03:56 AM
Comments
Comment #213312

There isn’t anything inherently wrong with segregation. People segregate themselves for a variety of reasons—it is an instinctive process. Unfortunately, the concept of segregation is intimately linked with the actual social evil—“discrimination born of HATRED, MISUNDERSTANDING, AND IGNORANCE.” If one is going to appologize sincerely for something then they should at least know what it is for which they are truly sorry.

In any case why start with segregation, what about slavery? Oh, that’s right. If we consider slavery then we might have to cast a far too critical eye and indict many of our diefied “founding fathers.”

Posted by: Kim-Sue at March 23, 2007 07:56 AM
Comment #213328

Kim-Sue,

It may be instinctual, but as the Supreme court found, institutional segregation is inherently unequal.

You seem to have selective memory or ignorance about that period of time. I think Richard brings up a good point here.

In my own family, I was talking with an uncle who remembered a time in eastern Kentucky when blacks were told not to let the sun set on them in town. He recognized in his old age that it was wrong. Perhaps not an apology, but progress on his part.

I had a conversation with a friend’s daughter from Texas. She bemoaned that her parents would freak if she dated a black man. There is progress even in the deep south.

My own parents while not classical racists were from eastern Kentucky and had their predjudices, but raised me to believe different than their enviroment. I remember watching the riots of the 60’s on the evening news and listening to the discussions of friends and relatives. I felt glad to be born in a time when these ideas were challenged.

If anyone has a memory of slavery, they are probably in the Guiness book of records for age. I’ll give them a pass.

The greatest generation had it’s faults, too.

Posted by: gergle at March 23, 2007 10:40 AM
Comment #213339

Kim—

Segregation by a Merriam Webster definition not an evil I guess is your first point—neato, thanks Bill O’Reilly. Yeah segregation can be a myriad of things and situations.

Whaaat?!! Discrimination is born of hatred, misunderstanding and ignorance??? Whaaaat? Is that what that is?

Thirdly Kim-Sue, I say our founding fathers should apologise! They also ate foods like squirrel stew, I say bring in the ASPCA and probably PETA too.

Can all campus liberals please spawn a thought that is remotely original?

Richard Rhodes—

(Dear Abby) I am however for a ‘segregation’ (or atleast a fair noticing) of pro-zionist jews and those who think we should give Israel billions annually in arms, aid, mil. technology, and so on to Israel all the while playing our Ivy League colleges like a churn mill for themselves. Even when their IQ’s or acumen show no higher than those of oxidentals and others of any deserving variety based on the work and abilities of the individual. The quota system serves themselves near exclusively.

So it’s not hate, misunderstanding or ignorance, it’s hatred of a misuse of what should otherwise be a meritocracy if we are giving them all the tax-shelters of a non-profit orginization. All the while we can’t say anything about their overwhelming 30+ percentile of Ivy League selection all the while all the top heads are jewish and culling them in as nearly a third of those campus numbers.

Now we have bills on Capitol Hill mandating that even the noticing of somehting as jewishly top-heavy would be punishable by Jailtime as being ushered in by Conyers, Kennedy, Boxer and others. That is ADL money pushing this up the ladder so no one is allowed to notice all the top-heaviness in any given institution. Where is our money to produce a fair meritocracy in education if we are indeed giving such top-notch institutions such tax shelters.

Is it right to hate them for that? Some hate I think is well-justified especially when they are padding their own quilts while hardening others. Lining the deck and giving preferencial exceptence to themselves. Buuuut if you notice it—well you are a Nazi, bigot or some such insinuation which is not the case.

Society says we can’t say a word all the while getting shilled all based on the fear of the accusation of being called a racist as concerned American citizens. Which is so far off from the actual discussion we need to have.

Just an interesting case in point for some racism based on the vocal obstruction and socialized shilling of our society for an ethnic grouping/minority.

Posted by: Gleep at March 23, 2007 12:45 PM
Comment #213340

Typo; “Acceptance” not exceptence.

Posted by: Gleep at March 23, 2007 12:53 PM
Comment #213369

editor

i was curious as to why you pulled my last post. was there a problem with it ?

Posted by: dbs at March 23, 2007 02:45 PM
Comment #213371

Please, everyone make sure to read the Rules for Participation and help make sure the comments keep on topic of the post your are commenting on.

Comments are expected to remain on the topic of the published article.
Posted by: Third Party Editor at March 23, 2007 02:49 PM
Comment #213386

Richard,

I’m not sure how to answer this. I guess I could just say it doesn’t involve me, but everything that happens in our country involves every one of us.

My ancestors are a conglomeration of Swedish and German immigrants some of whom were “illegals” since they originally immigrated to Canada and literally “walked” to Pennsylvania. The other “side” of my roots came from Germany to the USA to follow the teachings of Martin Luther without persecution.

Most of my ancestors settled around what is now Blair, Nebraska (just north of Omaha) and actually participated in the underground railroad. Quite a few fought on the side of the “North” during the civil war.

Ah, then there’s always a “dark-side”! Many of my illustrious ancestors who fought for freedom of the slaves continued on to murder American Indians as though they were vermin. Sucks ass, don’t it?

I guess where my mind is at, we’re past due at creating equality. Rather than growing closer towards equality we’ve now singled out the Hispanic immigrants. So, rather than apologize I’d hope that Americans would open their hearts and minds to all of their fellows.

Just maybe we can can all learn to live together.

Posted by: KansasDem at March 23, 2007 05:02 PM
Comment #213400
Can people who stood by, or advocated such intense hatred be forgiven if they never actually apologized?

Does raising thier kids not to share their one-time hatred count as an apology?

Posted by: American Pundit at March 23, 2007 06:43 PM
Comment #213406

Richard.
Why should I apologize for something I was to young to do something about it? I was born in 1946 and was a kid during the 1950s. What can a 8 or 9 year old kid do to stop something they believe is wrong? None of the politicians would’ve listened to me. And by the time I got old enough to do something I had to do my time with Uncle Sam.
But even as a kid I was able to watch the slow end of institutional segregation. And I watch as it’s end was fought against tooth and nail by the bigoted few that believed that ending segregation would be the down fall of the country.
I remember seeing the Black students being escorted by police and National Guard troops into a Little Rock high school and asking why they didn’t want Black kids in there.
I also though that one of excuse the given for not letting Black and White kids go to school together was about as stupid as giving the keys to the bank to a safe cracker. The excuse was that if the schools were integrated that the kids might have sex with each other. Now I ran around just about all summer with our only full time farm hand’s daughter. We were alone together in the fields, woods, by the pond, and in the barn. Now if we were going to do anything wouldn’t we come nearer doing it in those places than in the school?
But back to my point. I was a snot nosed kid during the end of segregation and by the time I was old enough to do anything it was all but over. Thanks to Martin Luther King and others with the guts to stand up for what’s right.
Again why should I apologize for something I was to young to do anything about? That’s about as brilliant as expecting me apologize for slavery when I wasn’t even alive then, even though my grandyoungins might think so, and none my ancestors owned slaves.
But what was worse than segregation was the pure meanness of discrimination. If it wasn’t for discrimination segregation might not of ever been an issue.

KansasDem
Hispanic immigrants aren’t being targeted as such. The only ones being targeted are the illegal ones.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 23, 2007 07:30 PM
Comment #213407

Gleep
And just which hate group do you belong too?

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 23, 2007 07:36 PM
Comment #213409

I meant only people that were adults during segregation, not those who were kids.

Posted by: Richard Rhodes at March 23, 2007 07:40 PM
Comment #213418

“Hispanic immigrants aren’t being targeted as such. The only ones being targeted are the illegal ones.”

Ron Brown,

Do you think an “illegal” Irish immigrant would stand an equal chance of being investigated or detained compared to an “illegal” Mexican immigrant?

For that matter, do you think your chances of being stopped for a “routine” check are increased or decreased based on your color or nationality?

Rather than properly secure our borders and create common sense immigration guidelines we (collectively) seem to prefer creating a new “underclass” on which we can blame all of our ills.

IMO, we’re still stuck on needing “someone else” to blame things on. It’s easier if that “someone’ looks (or speaks, or acts, etc.) considerably different than us.

Posted by: KansasDem at March 23, 2007 08:41 PM
Comment #213435

Ron Brown,

See there ya’ go, it sounds as if my views are bigoted towards a general minority—that’s why no one fights it or says anything, the fear of speaking up about it and being labelled. Keep silent and let the whole system go right down the tubes even if it is all of our system together.

What actually happens is the rightwing sees this stuff and all the multiculturalism stuff, which is actually not a bad advent in and of itself, and the blame goes right to liberals and the blame is lobbed right onto the back of blacks and hispanics and there you go with the bell curve stuff.

Point on the congressional hate legislation bill coming up this year that many on the left and right are fighting hard on: Fact—when Stalin first came into power the first thing he put in place amongst string after string of executions was an anti-hate speech law much like what the ADL is doing now that you could not question or criticize people of his (Stalin’s) ethnicity, who were placed at the the top in power appointed by Stalin to kill off millions (Over 80 million were killed and millions more placed in labor camps and gulags). That same type of bill is hitting the senate floor this year alhtough if you fight against such an governmental incursion then you are part of some racist group which by no means is the case with any of those against it. Most are actually Christians and those of the libertarian left to laftist—not exactly the hate groups imagined.

I have no hatred against any people of any general ethnicity, I just know when things are slanted to funnel only in one direction at the expense of what is the majority of our nation.

The majority of our nation albeit is caucasian, demographically, when the college campuses reflect that fairly there is a call for multiculturalism as an antidote to what is a free market of individuals based on personal achievement persuing an education. And no I am not in the least calling for some type of segregation as to white black racist anything.

But you look at who gets accepted as nearly a third of the population of Ivy league schools with predominantly jewish heads and it’s bound to piss you off as to why our nation’s best schools can’t reflect our own nation. Why are jews (and no I don’t hate anyone) nearly a third of that population in a nation that is majoritively and overwhelmingly white protestant? Is that really the great meritocracy we want of our nation’s top educational institutions to be askewed by racial preferences (which to me is equally a racist agenda). Things are quite slanted and I see it and there can be no awareness of it or there are the insinuations of having a racist bent prior or some hate group affiliation.

No one wants to touch this topic with a ten foot pole and I don’t blame ‘em. It’s a rough road to hoe out given all the stereotypical inuendo of what sort of person has the balls to notice it outright.

Posted by: Gleep at March 23, 2007 10:18 PM
Comment #213436

Gleep: I have never seen any statistics that Jews make up nearly a third of the population of the top schools in this country, I’d love if you could pull some stat to prove this statement.

Posted by: Richard Rhodes at March 23, 2007 10:31 PM
Comment #213437

“No one wants to touch this topic with a ten foot pole”

Gleep,

Certainly not the way you frame it. You seem to be convinced that there is a widespread conspiracy. Actually there are a few such conspiracies. None have been able to survive on their own. The Republicans have only survived by creating a cabul of true conservatives, the Neo-Cons, and the Religious Right.

We Democrats are seriously split also. Today is the day for a true independent to rise to power.

Posted by: KansasDem at March 23, 2007 10:33 PM
Comment #213440

Richard

We know that there are a great number of white adults who are now sixty years or older who either stood by and let segregation occur, or even supported it.

I was born in October 1946. That makes me 60 years old. When you said anyone 60 or older what was I supposed to think?
Sorry if I misunderstood ya though.
Maybe anyone 70 or older as they would have become adults in the early 1950s and had the chance to have done something.
But then maybe a lot of folks that didn’t support segregation realized they could do anything about it.
Just something to think about.

KansasDem
I can’t say for sure that any group of illegals gets even close to as much attention as the Hispanic illegals. They should though as they’re just as much criminals as the illegal Hispanics.
I think one reason though that illegal Hispanics get more attention is because there are more of them than the others. Also the liberal media focuses a lot of attention on them in their efforts to get them amnesty. Something they don’t want for any other group of illegals.

BTW, Aint no such thing as a Republican that’s a true conservative. No true conservative would put up with their liberal crap.

Gleep
You still aint answered my question. Afraid to say? Figures.

BTW I’m against anything Congress does that distracts from the real problems facing this country. And all this political correctness crap is just a smoke screen to hide what Congress is really up to. And the left is falling for it hook, line, and sinker.
Hell, they’re the biggest proponents of it. Should tell folks something you’d ya think.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 24, 2007 12:09 AM
Comment #213448

Ron Brown: I chose sixty because that is the age of those who had just become adults, 18, in 1964 when the Civil Rights Act was passed. I should have probably put it at 65 or even 70 though in retrospect.

Posted by: Richard Rhodes at March 24, 2007 01:03 AM
Comment #213456

Ron,

You asked what hate group I am with? It’s an easy one to join—none what so ever. Thanks for the accusation. I just don’t want our nation overrun by hate laws that harm the foundations of our US constitution—does that answer your question?

Rich Rhodes—

Give me a little time to come up with the stats they are available just takes a little sorting.

KCDem,

When Clinton appointed an entirely jewish cabinet from top to bottom including dozens upon dozens of jewish embassadors to Europe and Asia. All the while taking millions in zionist lobbying dollars from AIPAC, the ADL, JDL and so on it smacks of a bit of a conspiracy too.

Albright, Cohen, Reich, dee dee miers, Sandy Berger, and so on and so on all the way through the gambit down to even the woman who was getting into the Whitehouse to visit mr. Clinton—one M. Lewinski. Look at the roster of names of Clinton’s many appointments, all jews (with exception to Bill Richardson as pretty much the only goy)—that’s a conspiracy right there at nose length. Bill and Hillary were pretty much a minority in their own administration. That’s what accepting all that AIPAC/ADL/JDL money’ll git’ ya’.

There are no conspiracies, just monetary arrangements, that’s a better way of putting it.

Posted by: Gleep at March 24, 2007 09:36 AM
Comment #213459

Rich Rhodes—here’s a body of stats that might take a little sorting through, it’s in there.

HERE YA’ GO

I’ll find a few more.

Posted by: Gleep at March 24, 2007 09:52 AM
Comment #213460

Does anyone care to consider why Whites might want to “segregate” Blacks into their own bathrooms, schools, back entrances to hotels (for Black performers), etc.?

It is not the act of segregating that is a problem—it is underlying motive. I was born in 1967 and my parents are NOT from this country so I don’t have any direct link or family history to draw upon regarding this period of American history. But it shouldn’t take a genius to realize that what is referred to as “Segregation” in segment of American history is an attempt by Whites to continue the practice of treating Blacks unequally because of race—to do so is discrimination. Racial discrimination is as much a part of American history as the Pilgrims landing at Plymoth Rock, the Revolutionary war, etc. Racial discrimination has been a part of American society from the very beginning taking on different forms of which “SEGREGATION” is only ONE example. In the absence of discrimination, does it matter that in a given town most Blacks eat at Joe’s and most Whites eat at Sam’s? If there is equality in education and access to it does would matter that Meharry is predominantly a Black institution and Vanderbilt is predominantly a White institution. Discrimination, not segregation, creates and sustains inequality.

Posted by: Kim-Sue at March 24, 2007 10:13 AM
Comment #213466

kansasdem


“Do you think an “illegal” Irish immigrant would stand an equal chance of being investigated or detained compared to an “illegal” Mexican immigrant?”

probably not, but i doudt there’s a huge problem with illegal irish imigrants flooding into this country. the majority of illegals are entering from our southern borders. if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well you know the rest.

i don’t blame anyone for trying to better thier life, but this has become a huge problem. they take jobs from americans. ie construction etc. as a kid you could get a job washing dishes or busing tables, or in a fast food place to make some extra money. not anymore. they flood our emergency rooms and public schools, they use fake soc sec #s, drive without licenses or insurance, and i could go on.

” Rather than properly secure our borders and create common sense immigration guidelines we (collectively) seem to prefer creating a new “underclass” on which we can blame all of our ills.”

i mostly agree. though they do create problems it is mostly the gov’ts fault for turning a blind eye.

i think the two issues that of segragation and the way blacks were treated,and that of illegal immigration are very different. the blacks after all were fellow americans with a right to be here. the mexicans etc. aren’t. while i sympathise with thier situation, we have to control our borders. just because you don’t like a law doesn’t give you the right to break it.

i would have to say for a good man to sit by and watch evil occur and do nothing, is probably almost as bad as those commit the evil in the first place.


Posted by: dbs at March 24, 2007 12:03 PM
Comment #213494

Kim-Sue
Your right, institutional segregation has been a form of racial discrimination. It was used in the South “Causein we gotta keap them thar N——- in thar place. Er thalla git all upitity n all.” It was used out west to keep “Them there Red Savages in their place.” and in the North to “Keep those Shantys in their place.”
Thank God those days are over.
The segregation that your talking about today isn’t institutional segregation. It could be racial discrimination though. If someone doesnt want to go just some place because it’s patrons are prodominatly of another race, I reckon it could be called racial discrimination.
But the segregation could be just because of preferences. A lot of places that are segregated today is because of location, preferences of different races, etc. But if all are opened to anyone of any race it aint because of discrimination. At least not on the part of the management.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 24, 2007 04:02 PM
Post a comment