Third Party & Independents Archives

And the Fiddles Play Dixie

And now for those who still stick stubbornly to the belief that health care in America is still top-notch comes this study. I may sound like a broken record by now, but the sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling and the American Republic is being crushed under the weight of its own love affair with Capitalism and unchecked greed.

What further evidence do the doubting Thomas’s of the rural America need to finally admit that our country is going in the wrong direction and we need a serious course correction? Where is our national pride? Where is our national self-respect? The naysayer’s who stubbornly cling to the free-market mantra when it comes to every aspect of American culture are sowing the seeds of our American dismemberment.

American Institution after American Institution is failing and yet some among us refuse to address the issues at hand. Again what will it take for those who support "W" and his ilk and their failing free-market is the answer to every ill philosophy, to finally admit that like Communism, unfettered Capitalism is a failure? We need to strike a balance and we need to do it quickly! Because. Our country is burning, slowing and inexorably towards its demise and I can hear the fiddles plying Dixie in the background.

Posted by V. Edward Martin at March 15, 2006 10:02 PM
Comments
Comment #133756

So you think the situation would have been different if not for George Bush? This woman would have had the resources and the intelligence to get the proper care?

Posted by: Jack at March 15, 2006 10:43 PM
Comment #133760

Jack:

You don’t bother to defend Bush anymore, eh? Thing is a President of the US CAN make a difference to that woman. Policies implemented and Laws passed can do wonders to the bureacracy that can mean the difference to the poor and helpless. The key is COMPETENT LEADERSHIP. Not the one-liner idiot you voted for.

btw… If you get sick, I suggest you go to Singapore to get treatment. The cost is the same I swear and that’s INCLUDING Hotel stay and travel.

Posted by: Aldous at March 15, 2006 11:00 PM
Comment #133764

Aldous

I don’t get sick. In my 21 years of full time work, I missed 5 days (when I was hit by a car). Since I was in Europee at that time I experienced socialized medicine. Not so good.

Posted by: Jack at March 15, 2006 11:12 PM
Comment #133769

“NEW ORLEANS - Angela Jaster was wearing a turtleneck when she fell and broke her arm and so for days, she didn’t change her shirt because she couldn’t raise her arm.

The swelling stretched the fabric. Even though the pain was nearly unbearable, she did not consider going to the hospital, because in this flooded city there is only one for the uninsured and it doesn’t treat broken bones.

It was only when the pain sent her into a hyperventilating panic several weeks later that her family called an ambulance and had her taken to the convention center.”


For those who obviously don’t know, what’s described above was normal behavior before the 1960’s. This is the future the GOP wants to bring back. Better start praying you ain’t poor, feller.

Posted by: Aldous at March 15, 2006 11:16 PM
Comment #133771

Jack:

Like I said, Nancy Reagan.

Posted by: Aldous at March 15, 2006 11:19 PM
Comment #133787

Mr. Martin, the polls show 30% of Republicans and 70% of Independents have turned not only from Bush, but the GOP, indicating our nation needs a Democratically controlled Congress. American voters have finally caught up with the where we veterans in this column were 5 years ago. This is a very good sign.

Soon, after November we will have need to turn our educational efforts to the public on the subject of inept and incompetent Democrats in the majority, mucking up more problems than they solve.

Posted by: David R. Remer at March 16, 2006 12:17 AM
Comment #133790

you said it.

Posted by: diogenes (i) at March 16, 2006 12:25 AM
Comment #133832

Jack

What I think is that Bush and his Party have done very little to advance the cause of public health in this country since they assumed the mantel of leadership. Americans who routinely used America’s health care system will tell you that it is on the decline and has been for quite some time. Intelligence has little to do with exceedingly long waits at the local country hospital to be seen.

And I experienced socialized medicine too, in the U.S. armed Forces; my daughter was born in an Army hospital; no problems what so ever in my 15 years in the service.

Mr. Remer

If Tom Delay’s primary victory is a primer, don’t count your incompetent Democratic heads just yet. They have yet to formulate a clear message or direction for the country. They are leaderless and rudderless, and going nowhere!

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 16, 2006 8:44 AM
Comment #133861

Mr. Martin
Could you share what you think this balance would be?
Thank you.

Posted by: kctim at March 16, 2006 11:02 AM
Comment #133885

Excuse me, but this sounds like some kind of Liberal bullshit. What kind of hospital doesn’t treat broken bones? One ran by Liberals maybe?
Yall won’t stop at anything to push your stupid National Health care on the American public will you? Just who in the hell do yaall think is going to pay for this so-called cure all for heath care? Hint, it ain’t going to be the rich. It’s going to be the ones that can afford the extra taxes the least. You know, the ones yaall say can’t afford health care now.
It sounds to me like this woman was just to lazy to go to the hospital on her own. Like most down there, she was waiting for the Government to come and take her.
That’s the problem with yall’s social programs. They teach folks to be too lazy or stupid to take care of themselves.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 16, 2006 12:08 PM
Comment #133887

V. Edward

I would not mind socialized medicine if we could get rid of the lawyers and the advocates. Socialized medicine works when it gives the basics. Like most government, it sticks when it is asked to do too much.

Posted by: Jack at March 16, 2006 12:09 PM
Comment #133904

KC

That balance would be a system based on a marriage between socialized medicine and the free-market. Those who can afford to pay would, while those who could not, or have limited resource would have their health care needs taken care of by the government. This new health care system would see the federal, state and county governments enter into a new partnership wherein and extensive network of state/county run hospitals and clinics would be built in the neighborhoods that need them most, with an emphasis on community clinics. And, whenever possible, pharmacy operations would be co-located with the clinics and hospitals.

Also the traditional employer/employee system of health care would be abolished. Instead the government would partner with corporations in a system that would see a sharply re-vamped Medicare system collect employer and employee contributions and issue medical cards for the broad spectrum of health care needs; i.e. medical, dental, and vision. Those who could afford to pay more would.

And lastly, the government which already buys prescription drugs for the military and veterans, who do so for those would could not afford them. They would be required to pay a minimal co-payment charge per drug.

That is the general outline of the program; not complete socialized medicine, but a plan that will cover ALL Americans.

Ron Brown

And I guess it was liberals who ran the study? Sticking ones head in the sand will not stop the wild beast from eating you; it was just prevent you from taking the appropriate action(s) to ensure it doesn’t come to pass.

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 16, 2006 1:17 PM
Comment #133909

V. Edward
I hope National Health Care never comes. The only thing that the Government is going to do is screw everything up. Then no one will get the medical attention they need because you’ll have to wait for some bureaucrat to take 3 or 4 weeks to decide if your really having a heart attack and need medical attention.
But yeah, let’s by all means get the Government involved in our health care. Then the poor can all die while the rich go to another country that doesn’t have National Health Care and get treated.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 16, 2006 1:58 PM
Comment #133916

Mr. Martin
Thanks for taking the time and giving us a well thought out plan.
Of course I disagree with anything that takes away a persons right of free choice, but it is always good to see some ideas to our country’s problems.
Again, thanks for presenting your ideas.

Posted by: kctim at March 16, 2006 2:32 PM
Comment #133937

RB

My response to “the government will screw everything up” argument is this: in the fifteen years I was in the Navy I never once lack for medical care, no matter where I was; ashore or under way. And if that isn’t government health care then what is?

KC

There is such a thing as too much choice. Sometimes all a person wants and needs is the peace of mind that comes from a well running system of Institution. When it comes to my health I would much rather align myself with one doctor and hospital, than to continuously jump from person to person. I do not believe that the free-market model is the best solution for national healthcare.

V. Edward

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 16, 2006 3:43 PM
Comment #133958

Mr. Martin
Sorry about that. I was talking about taking away a persons choice in deciding what he wants to participate in.
Your scenario would force everybody to accept and participate in what you and others think is right.
I would rather for each person to be given the choice to do what they themselves, think is right.

Posted by: kctim at March 16, 2006 4:37 PM
Comment #133960

KC,

My plan would see no one participate if they did not want to; anyone would be able opt out…

V. Edward

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 16, 2006 4:41 PM
Comment #133968

Mr. Martin
Your last post makes it sound great. But how would it be paid for?

Posted by: kctim at March 16, 2006 4:58 PM
Comment #133974

It’s been a long time since we went through the looking glass now, folks. Note this exchange in the Senate, from the New York Times:

Mrs. Clinton and Ms. Murray said they had been double-crossed. At a hearing in November, Ms. Murray all but called Mr. Leavitt a liar.

His voice rising, Mr. Leavitt replied that “the F.D.A. did act” on the Plan B application by deciding to delay a decision.

Then something unexpected happened: Dr. Crawford abruptly resigned, apparently the result of financial disclosure problems.

This is a perfect example of government by the conservative wing of the Republican party. Notice the high dudgeon as our representative of the conservative ruling class states a complete non-sequitur in defense of himself, followed by cutting and running due to, ahem, disclosure problems. This is typical behavior in our government now and encouraged by the Rovian philosophy (which is identical to Machiavelli’s, by the way; he’s clearly read “The Prince”).

We don’t have a medical care system any more. The clearly erroneous assertion by the opponents of single-payer systems that the current system is fair, effective, and based on competition has undone our ability to fix the problem. We accept the highest-price for the lowest quality care among industrialized nations. I weep for our country.

And, by the way, Jack, nice argument by anecdote. Let’s see, don’t get sick, and one time you got care in Europee and it was bad, so socialized medicine is bad. Really insightful.

Posted by: Mental Wimp at March 16, 2006 5:20 PM
Comment #133998

KC,

A combination of the employer and matching employee money that we now pay to third party insurance companies like Blue Cross Blue Shield would go to Medicare. And if taxes needed to be raised, slight to help cover costs, so be it, we as a society reap the rewards and benefit. Again, if someone wanted to opt out they could do so, and no Medicare costs would be taken from their paycheck, but they would be on their own!

V. Edward

Posted by: V. Edward at March 16, 2006 8:11 PM
Comment #134015

Socialized medicine is worth a try. Well at least when the current administration is gone from office. The system we have now, which I would call the predatory capitalist system is most definetly broken. The current administration does not have the right mind set to run anything very well if it is associated with government.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 16, 2006 9:57 PM
Comment #134025

I don’t really have time to fully engage in this discussion, but you baited me into a couple of comments - can’t seem to keep my opinionated opinions to myself…

Medicare is a blend of free market and socialized medicine - leaning toward the socialized side. Medicare is by far the most efficient medical insurance system we have. Ron Brown wanted to know who would pay for national health insurance. Well he is correct in that it will be mostly the working class. However, just turning all national health insurance over to medicare would save enough money to pay for the uninsured - especially since we wind up paying even more for them anyhow because they have to use hospital ERs for routine medical care.

Another problem with health insurance is that it is employer centered. This creates many unintended consequences. One is that employers do not want to hire older workers, or workers with health problems because it will drive their premiums up. The second problem is that any established business with older workers will always be put at a major competitive disadvantage against any new business. A good example of this is the health care legacy disadvantage of Delphi, GM, Ford, and Damler against Toyota and the rest. In 10 years it will Toyota losing to the new Chinese transplants for the same reason. The Japanese practice unfair trade anyhow, and they shall reap what they sow.

The point is we need to put everybody into the same risk pool. That levels the playing field for everyone. Otherwise, employers are not going to want to hire blacks, because they have an elevated risk of diabetes and high blood pressure. They are not going to want to, and don’t want to, hire anybody over 35 regardless of their qualifications or abilities, because they have an elevated risk for disease, etc.

The people in many countries that have socialized medicine live longer than the people in the U.S. do. Canadian people have a significantly longer life expectancy the we do in the U.S. To compare life expectancies go to: Life Expectancy

To read my blog go to: Ray’s Political Blog

Posted by: Ray G. at March 16, 2006 10:43 PM
Comment #134043

V. Edward
First, Thank you for serving our great country.
Second, the Military isn’t a bunch of bumbling bureaucraps bureaucrats. I never lacked for health care the 20 years I was in the Air Force either. But once I got out and had to go to the VA for health care…… Now there’s a prime example of Government heath care run by bureaucrats.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 17, 2006 12:31 AM
Comment #134051

So Ron it appears that the government can do either a good job or a bad job depending on if you are still of service to them, sort of like the business world.The Army treated me right when I was on active duty and needed health care. I haven’t had to deal with vetrans hospitals yet.Turning Health care into a business has proven not to work for most people and companies. I think it is time to move insurance away from employment. I think its time to pool the funds busines currently pays along with the medicare funds, private insurance funds and create a workable system that provides reasonable haelth care for all the citizens of this Country.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 17, 2006 1:18 AM
Comment #134069

Mr. Brown:

You mean the same VA system that’s had its resources cut by both Presidents Bush?

Posted by: Arr-squared at March 17, 2006 8:32 AM
Comment #134072

Mr Martin
“Again, if someone wanted to opt out they could do so, and no Medicare costs would be taken from their paycheck, but they would be on their own!”

Then I would be sold on your idea sir.
Thank you for taking the time to detail it.

Posted by: kctim at March 17, 2006 9:10 AM
Comment #134097

RB

Thank you for serving your country as well! I too have had occasion to go to the VA for medical care and I must say I was impressed at the level of care; it was not far removed from that which I enjoyed on active duty. I contracted diabetes about four years ago during a period when I was out of work; I turned to the VA and they have been monitoring me ever since, and even call to remind me of my regular appointments. My meds are mailed to me, and yes they cost on average $10.00 per bottle than the civilian sector, but the convenience is well worth the expense.

KC

My pleasure, glad I could convince you!

V. Edward

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 17, 2006 11:15 AM
Comment #134111

I recently had a heart attack and found myself uninsured and upon release from the hospital, fired from my new job of one week.

My care in the Hospital was excellent,inlcuding angioplasty and insertion of two stents, however, I could not afford any of the drugs prescribed by the doctor to take upon my release.

Since my previous employer had not paid me for the last month salary nor expenses ( If I didn’t work 15 hours a day ,6 days a week, perhaps I could sue) and when I told prospective employers I had just had a heart attack, no one wanted to hire me. After 4 months, I lied about my medical history and was reemployed, to date I have not gone back to my cardiologist, but am insured and taking cholesteral lowering drugs.

I have never drawn unemployment or welfare of any kind, but am now financially heavily in debt, too poor to file bankruptcy. I’ve never sued anyone. I work hard and still I will dumped into the street the second I become ill. This is the American dream?


I don’t believe health care is in total dissarray in this country, or that it is the best in the world. I’ve spoken to many who tout Canada and Europe systems far better in serving the average person. Illness that doesn’t disable you doesn’t bankrupt you or put you in economic servitude in either of these systems.

The lobbyists succesfully derailed the Clinton’s healthcare proposals. It’s time to put patients instead of profits on K street.

Why did I have to lie to get a job, get insured,and why was my insurance canceled and I fired for a serious, but relatively minor health problem? If anyone can explain to me how a healthcare system that functions like this is working, I’ll be amazed.

Healthcare needs to be disengaged from employment. Medical savings plans are simply tax dodges for the rich. Healthcare costs are rising much faster than any other commodity. Healthcare is not a competitive market or a luxury item. Follow the money to understand what is wrong here.

Posted by: gergle at March 17, 2006 12:09 PM
Comment #134118

j2t2
Your about right there. It all depends on how much they need you. And the Government doesn’t think they need us.
Thanks for serving our counrty.

V. Edward
What VA hospital are you going to? I’ve been to 2 so far and both ain’t worth the powder itd take to blow them up.

Arr-squared
Yes, that VA. It wasn’t worth a crap before, waht makes anyone think that it’s improved with less money?

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 17, 2006 12:27 PM
Comment #134130

Mr. Brown,

I go to the Hines VA Hospital west of Chicago.

V. Edward

Posted by: V. Edward Martin at March 17, 2006 1:17 PM
Comment #134468

I know where Hines Hospital is. It’s in the town of Maywood. I’ve been by it when I was a youngin visiting my grandmother up there.
The only two I’ve been to are in Augusta, GA and Atlanta, GA. The one in Atlanta totally sucks and the Augusta one ain’t much better.

Posted by: Ron Brown at March 19, 2006 12:29 AM
Comment #135022

I have to take issue with the asusmptions made, both in the cited article about the health care study and v. Edward’s editorial about it. V. Edward states that the American healthcare system cannot be considered the best, citing the “Institute for Healthcare Improvement” study as evidence. But “best” is a comparitive measure. And the study has no data for comparison. So a study comparing the systems of different groups (nations, states, continents, whatever…) would be viable evidence, not this article.
Another point: I’m not sure i want a system that performs 100% of the diagnosis and remedy for every checkup and treatment i go in for. Specifically I don’t want to pay for that system, even for myself and family.

Posted by: drew at March 21, 2006 1:21 PM
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