Third Party & Independents: Archives

Today, Math[*] 101.
The resolution of *all* equations, whatever degree is… 42.
End of course. Next!

;-)

[*] Replace with your prefered discipline.

Your frenchly,

Silly me, I was hoping the www.stupidgod.org would be a real site. If you had used Bart or Homer as their spokesman it would have be clear.
Ah well…

There is yet ANOTHER pseudo-scientific theory to add to the list of theories about how life evolved. And that one is The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Here are the facts:

1. There’s just as much scientific evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster as there is for Intelligent Design (and perhaps for Un-Intelligent Design as well; I don’t know for sure because I have not read the “research”)

2. Flying Spaghetti Monster and Intelligent Design both re-define the meaning of science to fit a school science curriculum.

3. You can make up your own theories, no matter how bizzare, and they fit the definition of “science” being pushed by both the Dover, PA and the Kansas state school boards.

Only Evolution is supported by scientific principles, scientific methods and, scientists. Only evolution belongs in school science classes.

Guinea Design:

My theory that our world is a scientific experiment created by scientists for observation(they look into a microscope at us) in order to prove or disprove their theory of evolution. My theory states that evolution took place as a result of intelligent designers with the intention of using us as Guinea Pigs to test evolution.

My theory has as much scientific credibility as Intelligent Design, Pastafarianism, and Unintelligent Design, and I demand it’s equal representation in science classes!

Rhinehold
You might be joking about this, but there’s going to be some looney on the fringe that’ll pick it up and run with it.
However, I’m for the Allergy Allegory myself.

Rhinehold:

Wow! We agree!

Unintelligent Design is a much better theory than Intelligent Design because you don’t have to be part of the elite intelligentsia to understand it. Any jerk can see that there is no intelligence behind anything that happens.

If Intelligent Design, and Unintelligent Design and Pastafarianism (Jah, but that’s funny, mon!) and Guinea Design, is going to be taught in public schools, then I demand that some class time away from Hard Science be vacated for discussion of the many and various Alien Creation Theories that exist, and more than just a passing glance into The Church of the SubGenius as well as Discordianism.

Rhinehold,

Careful, if Reverend Pat Robertson gets wind of this, he’ll have a hurricane come your way…

great post. LOL

Excellent post, Rhinehold. I’m all for teaching “intelligent” design in the public schools. Just as soon as they start teaching evolution in church.

Unintellignce Design: Sounds more like our system of government.

Our system of government is very well designed. It’s the politicians who’ve never faced adversity, don’t know what a “hard days work” is like, and born into a life of money and privilege that have messed things up.

This is the most Intelligently Designed post I have ever read from Rhïnëhöld. (Prior to reading it, I had suspected he was a follower of Madame Blavatsky and Guido von List.) Will Wonders never cease? (No, seriously, will they not!?)

I would like the theories put forth by Douglas Adams.

“42” as an answer is as good as any that has been put forth so far.

“Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.”

“Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.”
Douglas Adams

The problem with our government is that it’s run by people who are born into lives that innately put them at odds with what benefits 80% of the population they are suppose to serve.

The population they serve have LESS than an 8 second attention span and mostly could care less what officials are doing - unless it’s something really messed up.

Bravo! Nice post Rhinehold.

The population they serve have LESS than an 8 second attention span and mostly could care less what officials are doing - unless it’s something really messed up.

Amen. All you have to do is watch reality TV to catch it in action. These people actually AREN’T acting…. wait…. what were we talking about?

:)

Pat Robertson and his cult disciples and the other lemmings who follow him and are at it again. Seems on Tuesday, the voters in Dover, PA voted out the eight members of the board of education that supported teaching Inteligent Design were voted out of office by a wide margin. What is Robertson’s response, read on to find out.

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (AP) - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson warned residents of a rural Pennsylvania town Thursday that disaster may strike there because they “voted God out of your city” by ousting school board members who favored teaching intelligent design.

All eight Dover, Pa., school board members up for re-election were defeated Tuesday after trying to introduce “intelligent design” - the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power - as an alternative to the theory of evolution.

“I’d like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don’t turn to God. You just rejected him from your city,” Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting Network’s “700 Club.”

Eight families had sued the district, claiming the policy violates the constitutional separation of church and state. The federal trial concluded days before Tuesday’s election, but no ruling has been issued.

Good job Pat, Use the scare tactics to get your way, anyone who disagrees with the Gospel of Pat Robertson, must be the anti-christ and therefore not worthy of living. Why don’t you do what so many other tele-evangilsts have done before you, just fade away. You were all for Assisinating President Hugo Chavez, so let me see if I get this right: God commands “Thou shall not Kill” and you Mr Robertson are all about killing The leader of a foreign nation. If someone actually took your request and did kill President Chavez, when the suspect is asked why he did it, They answer Pat Robertson told me to, are you going to be a man and say yes or hide behind your small army of lawyers trying to defend you? But now the disciples you have created went against you and you tell them not to turn to your God for help. Makes me think, What kind of maniac are you?
These are only my humble opinions

As Always,
Wayne

Hahaha, that’s brilliant! I think I heard Pat Robertson’s head blow up when all eight Dover, PA school board members up for re-election were defeated Tuesday.

Rhinehold,
I’m not sure if it is by Intellegent Design or Unintellegent Design, but the Founding Fathers knew and understood what and how to use the Natural Course of Human Events to explain a many of things that we today would be amazed by. For example, just follow VP Cheney’s life starting in the Late 60’s til now and see how the events he was involved with got us were we are right here right now.

Excellent post, Rhinehold.

Over here in Malaysia, Mahathir Mohammad is exhorting Muslims to begin a new age of science, technology, and learning — an Islamic Renaissance which he says is necessary to defend Islam from its oppressors — while in the States, a bunch of Bible Belt idiots are determined to drag Western science and technology back to the Dark Ages. Crazy.

I was doubting the validity of this new concept until I heard that George Carlin was involved. If George is involved this must be serious. The ultimate coup would be for the movement to attract Gallagher.

Actully, I threw this together as a comedic way to make a salient point about opening up our public schools to every ‘religious based scientific theory’ and what the results of that could be, but it does appear that there was a book written called ‘Unintelligent Design’ over a year ago.

I’m not the first one to come up with it it appears. And I think I may actually register the domain name in the article and use it in the future to fight this type of maneuvering by religious groups who are hell-bent on ruining our educational system more than the government has already done.

Funny! Yes, it is comedic.

Like standing between two mirrors.
We could keep it up indefinitely.

Perhaps this problem would go away if both the Faithful and the Secularists (both) didn’t push their agendas too much?

Here’s another solution: No more public education.

You know, now that you mention it, I don’t see the place in the constitution that allows for the federal government to be involved in education…

Can someone point that out to me? I’m sure it’s there, what with the establishment of the Department of Education and this being a country of laws and such…

Well Rhinehold,

George Washington said:
“A primary object should be the education of our youth in the science of government. In a republic, what species of knowledge can be equally important? And what duty more pressing than communicating it to those who are to be the future guardians of the liberties of the country?”

And though it never happened, Thomas Jefferson did submit an amendment to the constitution to legalize federal support for education.
From his State of the Union Address on December 2, 1806 he said:

“Education is here placed among the articles of public care… ”

“Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. And to render even them safe, their minds must be improved to a certain degree…”

“An amendment to our constitution must here come in aid of the public education. The influence over government must be shared among all people.”

For some reason, and to his great regret, the amendment never came up for consideration. This being the case, Jefferson turned his efforts to the state of Virginia, where he developed plan for education covering elementary, secondary, and university levels.

During that time he wrote:

“I think by far the most important bill in our whole code, is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised for the preservation of freedom and happiness.”

“— it is safer to have the whole people respectfully enlightened than a few in a high state of science and many in ignorance as in Europe.”

He then went on to list six objectives for education:
“To give every citizen the information he needs for the transaction of his own business;
To enable him to calculate for himself, and to express and preserve his ideas, his contracts, and accounts, in writing;
To improve, by reading, his morals and faculties;
To understand his duties to his neighbors and country, and to discharge with competence the functions confided to him by either;
To know his rights; to exercize with order and justice those he retains; to choose with discretion the fiduciary of those he delegates; and to notice their conduct with diligence, with candor, and judgment;
And, in general, to observe with intelligence and faithfulness all the social relations under which he shall be placed.”

Jefferson had a lot of trouble putting his plan into effect with the Virginia Assembly, of which he wrote:

“Legislators do not generally possess information enough to perceive the important truths, that knowledge is power, and knowledge is safety, and knowledge is happiness.”

But eventually he did manage to start the University of Virginia - the first state funded public learning institution.

Just a bit of history. Anyway, I think it’s crazy to complain about the idea of religion entering public schools, and then also complain about public schools themselves. If all we have are private schools, we can only end up with more schools having the power to push the idiotic pseudo-science of ID, than not.

Adrienne,

I would have no problem with national education if it were constitutionally legal. The problem is, as you pointed out, there is no provision for it. If we all agree it is a good idea, then we need to amend the constitution to allow it, not just ignore the constitution because then it becomes a meaningless document and there are a lot of protections for minorities in there that a majority rule system would trample over (as we saw during reconstruction AND in San Francisco the other day).

As for public vs private, I am more talking about federal vs state and more importantly community. But the notion of this type of stuff being taught in a private school doesn’t bother me as much because you are not paying for your children to be taught in a private school without having say over what your children are being taught.

I was sent to a catholic school when I was younger and we had religion taught to us in the school setting. While *I* would never send my children to the same type of school, it was, I think, my parent’s right to do so.

Eric G,

The best thing to do would be to e-mail the moderators and site owner as they are probably the ones who might know the answer to your question. I’m not sure why you assume that they will not respond to you, that sounds fishy, as if you suspect you know the reason already.

Rhinehold,

“I would have no problem with national education if it were constitutionally legal. The problem is, as you pointed out, there is no provision for it.”

There is no constitutinal provision for NASA, or any of the myriad other government programs either, but IT IS the right thing to do.
Education is power. Education is the key to the continued success of this country. Education is one of the few reasons that this country holds it’s prominent place in the world.

Rocky,

Why is following the law of the land, the constitution, such a horrible thing to do?

If you want a national education program then the proper thing to do is to pass an amendment to the constitution to allow it.

Otherwise, we can just ignore other parts of the Constitution, like say the 1st amendment? Religion in schools for everyone!

Rhinehold,
Article 1 Section 8 reads “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;…” Considering that education of our citizens is paramount to our national security and general welfare than I must submit to the idea that education is provided for under the constitution. For while every American has an unalienable right to be ignorant, Bigotry & Stupidity” has/will cause/lead to a society revolting against their own nation. Just look at Washington D.C. today for a prime example. Both political parties use the pc word “Fear” to instill in their supporters these same Human behavior and traits to whip them up in a frenzy that is a hairline away from a revolution. Do we really want a nation of Neanderthals living in our Land?

Now, I concur that our education system is broken and major reform is needed; however, in order to be successfully we may have to pull some powers away from local/state school boards and replace them with federal standards. Teaching is just as much of an Art as it is passing along information. However, with the internet the need to remember everything is no longer required. Nevertheless, learning and understanding how to research knowledge and find the wisdom to use it correctly is a personal benefit that every Human should eagerly enjoy.

Sorry, Henry, but I think that you are really making a stretch here. To back me up on this is the fact that Jefferson felt it was necessary to propose an amendment in order to support the notion of national education. This is the path I think we should be taking as well. No limitation on the government for what they can or can’t do in support of this ‘section’ suggests that it is not suggesting what you put forward.

By using your very broad interpretation you could say ANYTHING is possible, in which case what is the need for the 10th amendment? Or is the phrase you are invoking simply a ‘reason’ clause, giving the reason why the Congress is given this one power. Elsewhere in the Constitution is the ‘common defense’ defined, but education is not listed anywhere else in the document to support it as inclusion into your general welfare definition.

What I find interesting, though, is that since the department of education was put into place less than 50 years ago our educational system has become a broken disaster. During that same time, the higher education system, which is mostly state run/private has gotten better.

And your proposal is more federal control of the local school system? How does someone in Washington DC have any idea what the educational needs of people in Oklahoma City, OK are? Are there different needs for rural communities compared to urban? East coast vs West?

In education, I think we can all agree, one size does NOT fit all.

Rocky,
I agree actually.
Education is important.
To put an end to all of this crap,
I’d recommend that teaching Evolution and I.D. both be eliminated.
Personally, I believe evolution occurs and there is overwhelming evidence of it.
But, to keep I.D. out of public schools, it would be worth it to give up teaching Evolution to prevent religion being taught in public schools.
I don’t think the students will be too damaged by that course of action.

Rhinehold,
Although you may try to use my interpretation in a broad stroke, the truth of the matter is that it falls into a very narrow and deep gap. Inherent Best Interest of All Americans I think the standard is called. Although many fades may come and go through our society, the core principles that guide every generation to raise above their parents must be protected. Education or the accessing of working knowledge will only allow our children to grow wiser. A view not everybody agreed upon 50 years ago and many don’t today.

Today, many of our Republican Social Leaders in education believe that a high school graduate only needs to learn so much. After that they can pay for college and learn only specialties. A BA for this and a Master’s for that, but at no time does are education system ever want to empower are youth on subjects that matter most in life. It is amazing that in the 90’s I could get no support from either party to have the local/state school broads accept the idea of higher personal finance classes in high school as a way to assist our children.

It is for this reason that we need to do a major overhaul of our education system. Considering common sense would tell us each parent would want the best teacher for each subject to supervise their children learning than we have to have the freedom to use today’s technology so that “The Rich Kid” can have access to the same teacher as “The Poorest Child.” The only way that I know of this being possible is through interactive teaching programs over the internet.

Creation, Evolution, and Intelligent Design in Humanity’s Civilization of Written Laws can be traced back to the Sanskrit Language and a Masonic Order somewhere around 15,000 BC which connects with the movement of wheat across the world. Any time before that was considered Spoken History and based upon one’s personal beliefs and culture. This historical fact of society is what we need to teach in school for it can be backed up by facts and shows how the East and West was at one time one.

BTW, you misquoted me. I did not say federal control, I stated federal standards. That I think was the reason that President Jefferson wanted an amendment, but was overridden by a group of people that believed locals should have all the control in what their children learn (I.e. States Right). While I can understand that position and do support it on many issues, our federal government needs to step up to the plate and provide equal facilities and access for every student no matter if they are in the North/South; East/West Coast; or Country vs. Urban. That standard and the capability should be the standards established and paid for by our federal government. Area Culture and Heritage should always remain in the hands of the locals. Give our children a place where they can learn properly regardless of where they live and enough force if necessary to kick some local butt if they don’t do what “We the People” want and need is the role our federal education board should take on.

Henry,

“Give our children a place where they can learn properly regardless of where they live and enough force if necessary to kick some local butt if they donⴠdo what ◥ the People⠷ant and need is the role our federal education board should take on.”

Are you forgeting that an uneducated and uninformed populace remain pliable, and are easily pushed by fear in any direction that those in power wish?

Rocky,
And the problem with that is it leads to appeasement and oppression of “We the People.” Now that may be ok for the Democrats and Republicans; however, after a 100 or so years of blowing smoke up our #!! don’t you think that it is time for a change?

h,

While we do need to change the way we teach in our schools, injecting God into the equation isn’t going to solve the ills of the public school system.
Religion and religious beliefs and values should be taught at home and in church and/or church schools. This is a diverse country. There are many people of many faiths represented here. No one faith should take precedence over another in the public schools.
ID is an attempt to do just that.

Well stated Rocky:
Religion has No Place in a democracy, until all religions are granted equal respect of all the peoples represented by said democracy.
That is only my personal opinion.
As Always,
Wayne

The best way to show respect, is to not force,
or show preference or discriminate against
any religion. That’s essentially what the
1st Amendment states.
__________________________________
Bill of Rights:
[YEAR: 1791] The 1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
__________________________________
But, many want to interpret this in a variety of ways.
Why do they want to control others?
Why do they want to insist on prayer in school? (their prayer, that is)
Why do they think everyone should beleive their way ?
Why are they so fearful of those that believe differently ?
Why can’t people just live and let live ?

Rhinehold

Usually, we’re far apart on this, but the Intelligent Design meme of the nutty religious right keeps pushing this crap and it’s good to see that not all the supporters of Bush’s little war subscribe to this bit of inanity. Or should I say, one wholeheartedly and enthusiastically subscribes to it in all its vacuity.

Great post!

Oops!

…far apart on this …

d.a.n.

I think your heart is in the right place, but teaching biology without evolution is like teaching mathematics but skipping algebra. It renders the field useless beyond the process of naming of parts and organisms. The core of modern biology is how all the species fit together through the construct of evolution, which determines and explains quite elegantly molecular, organelle, cellular, and organ system structure and function. The Intelligent Design idea is a stalking horse to accomplish just what you propose: the elimination of evolution from the school curriculum. The religious right doesn’t care if ID ever gets taught (although the pseudo-scientific prevaricators who formulated this new version of creationism probably believe it themselves by now). If you “compromise” by throwing both out, they have made no compromise whatsoever. They have accomplished their mission at a great cost to the education of our children in modern scientific thought. If they proposed intelligent falling as an alternative to the theory of gravity, would you assent to throwing them both out? How about “mystical numerololgy” as an alternative to arithmetic? You can see where this goes.

If I’m not mistaken (and I might be), education is not specifically guaranteed in the constitution, nor is the way in which it should be delivered. Following this line of logic, I see no reason why Intelligent Design should not be taught in the classes of schools found in districts where the overwhelming majority of people favor it. Under a federal system of government, it is the place of the state to decide such issues. States are meant to be experimental models to test the ideas which can then be applied by other states if successful. Don’t get me wrong, Intelligent Design is just a backdoor way of having religion taught in classes - yet schools, while publicly funded, are not, and should not be, political institutions. The beauty of this system is that those who choose to take advantage of it - and subsequently teach such useless idiocy to their children - will have only themselves to blame when their children can’t find a job or get into college because they believe that angels cause apples to fall from trees and that God makes pictures appear on their tv sets. Such ignorant people will surely starve, preventing their reproduction…you see where I’m going with this…and in the end, Darwin still wins.

I’ll take the silence for acquiescence.