Third Party & Independents Archives

The Worst in People

I was hoping it wouldn’t happen, but it sure didn’t take long for the conspiracy theorists and hatemongers that make up the far left of the Democratic party and the zenophobic bigoted righteous far right came out of the woodwork in respect to Katrina. There are obviously plenty of areas for debate in the coming months, once we have stabilized the situation, to determine if the lack of funding FEMA had anything to do with the disaster, those discussions are proper and do not look good for the president at this time. However, those are not the discussions I’m speaking about. Let’s take a gander at some of the discussions going on today… (warning, some quoted language is a bit harsh)

First, we make a stop at www.democraticunderground.com. Here’s a great couple of comments that have popped up:

BTW, does anyone else think it's suspicious that the levees didn't break until AFTER the hurricane passed and it was clear the storm surge was not going to swamp the city. It would probably only take a couple of sticks of dynamite to get those things flowing. Seems like someone wanted Bush to have another pile of debris to climb on top of.

The hurricane had passed and the city was safe from catastrophe. Than overnight the levies broke.

I didn't think of deliberate destruction of the levee, but that's sure possible. No one was there to see.

I HAVE been wondering why Bush looks so perky and happy - like he's very PLEASED about the hurricane. It seems like more than his usual sociopathic cluenessness. Is there somethiing about the oil infrastructure, the neighborhoods that were destroyed (surely not strongholds of GOP support), the probable availabllity of cheap land now that so much has been destroyed. Or perhaps just that the cost of oil has soared so high?

He's a sociopath who is incapable of empathy, yes, but doesn't he seem really, really tickled to you? Like he's gotten something he thought he might not be able to pull off?

And more:

What the fuck, Food & Water is needed. Maybe they want to shoot who is left

This is fucking GENOCIDE. They cannot do this. They are MURDERING 80,000+ People.

Ok, I see, it is the lack of media coverage of all they are doing which is causing people in NO to die!!!!!

And here’s a bit from www.repentamerica.com blaming the destruction of New Orleans as a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah:

"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city," stated Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "From 'Girls Gone Wild' to 'Southern Decadence,' New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. From the devastation may a city full of righteousness emerge," he continued.

New Orleans is also known for its Mardi Gras parties where thousands of drunken men revel in the streets to exchange plastic jewelry for drunken women to expose their breasts. This annual event sparked the creation of the "Girls Gone Wild" video series.

"We must help and pray for those ravaged by this disaster, but let us not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits, and bring us trembling before the throne of Almighty God," Marcavage concluded.

"[God] sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45)

And other things overheard by some:

"Let's just hope that most of the dead are illegals."

"It looks like we made the public housing in New Orleans too good, they are still standing."

"Did you see that picture of prisoners being led over a bridge? Why the fuck are we saving them? We can't use them for labor in rebuilding the city because the PC fucks will play the race card, but at least we could have saved the cost of feeding them for God knows how long."

Seriously folks, these are some of the people who make up this great land. From commenting like this or taking to the streets and looting the ravaged area, even shooting on helicopters trying to remove people from the Superdome, they are the dregs of society.

Some of these people vote! Doesn't that scare you in the least ... ?

Posted by Rhinehold at September 1, 2005 2:36 PM
Comments
Comment #76999

Oh, and here’s another one:

Impeach Bush or Die. It has come down that this. Your city may be the next New Orleans.
Posted by: Rhinehold at September 1, 2005 2:53 PM
Comment #77002

Rhinehold:

New Orleans Mayor has just given a desperate SOS to the news media.

Just heard on the news that they don’t expect enough buses at the shelter, and they have run out of supplies for the THOUSANDS of people there.

They say they are going to let them march to something called crescent circle for relief. Reporters are wondering “what relief will be there?”

We don’t have, and haven’t sent enough resources to control ANY of the lawlessness or get supplies in to the people or do all the needed rescues.

Bodies are lying in the streets and elsewhere.

And the National Guard and equipment is in Iraq.

People are still dying in New Orleans, by the minute apparently.

Bush is right now on TV talking about gas supplies.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 3:04 PM
Comment #77007

it is amazing isn’t it? america is a funny country.
we have people whose acts fill us with joy and pride and remind us what it means to be americans.
and we have the opposite of that.

when disaster strikes, the crazies come out of the shadows.

now is the time to help.

are there things that need to be addressed, such as FEMA’s budget cuts, warnings of the levee’s as early as 2001, etc? yes absolutely. is there a big debate about EPA policies and global warming that needs to happen…yes.

but now is not the time.

let’s get people into shelters, get them food and water, and begin the clean up before the spread of disease and toxicity can become too great and cause further casualties.

Posted by: views at September 1, 2005 3:11 PM
Comment #77010

as for the looting, from everything i’ve seen alot of the looting is for general supplies, food, water, TP, etc.

i am not condoning theft, but i understand it given the circumstances and the enormity of the destruction.

Posted by: views at September 1, 2005 3:13 PM
Comment #77014

Not directly on topic but related. Remember back in the 2000 election how some Republicans accused Gore of lying because Gore said he had seen flooding damage in Texas? Gore had seen the damage — from an airplane. But to some Republicans that was a lie. Now Bush tells us that he saw the devistation from Katrina — also from an airplane. Is Bush a liar too?

Posted by: steve at September 1, 2005 3:20 PM
Comment #77016

It’s raining in New Orleans.

An Army helicopter just dropped enough food and water for a DOZEN people at the convention center. There are 15-20 thousand people there.

This is 5 days after the hurricane. They expect to have more troops in there in a couple of days.

What the hell has taken so long to get help to these folks?

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 3:26 PM
Comment #77018

It is scary.
We’d like to think people of this nation are better than that.
But, the U.S. is not without or immune to these less desirable behaviors.

I was a bit surprised to hear that someone was shooting at helicopters. That’s despicable.
Some looting is predictable and understandable; especially those stealing food, water, diapers, etc.

Yes, many are going to use it to grind their own ax.
That’s also predictable; that some are going to make some ridiculous and outrageous allegations, and some people will believe what they want to believe, regardless of whether there’s any facts to support it.

Posted by: d.a.n at September 1, 2005 3:30 PM
Comment #77020

Dan:

Sorry, but we knew it was a category 5 and approximately where it was going. The alert should have been put in place then, all the preparation for the troops, police, helicopters. The helicoptors and troops they are NOW sending should have been there by now. So what if they might have later had to stand down.

Once the first information of the damage, this stuff should have been deployed enmass.

This is disgusting.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 3:34 PM
Comment #77022

Ugh.

Posted by: LawnBoy at September 1, 2005 3:40 PM
Comment #77031

How about…

“I’ll bet Bush doesn’t send his girls to help”

“it’s a Republican hurricane, the Republican’s should clean up the damage”

Posted by: steve smith at September 1, 2005 4:02 PM
Comment #77033

I agree with womanmarine, here should have been preparation ready to descend on NO as soon as the hurricane passed. Have we learned nothing?

rhinehold,
just from curiosity, your post said,

“…conspiracy theorists and hatemongers that make up the far left…”

I do not want to distract from the theme of this blog. I am just wondering what you base this statement on. I believe most on the far left have the attitude of “Love everyone, even our enemies”.
thanks, sassyliberal

Posted by: sassyliberal at September 1, 2005 4:05 PM
Comment #77034

I believe the problems are with universities that failed to produce ideas to help address problems like this. Visit my blog to read about it.

Posted by: Spinnet at September 1, 2005 4:10 PM
Comment #77037

womanmarine,

You state ‘bodies are lying in the street and elsewhere… The National Guard and equipment is in Iraq”

Your ignorance is showing. I don’t even know where to begin in correcting you.

There are already 2,800 National Guardsmen IN THE CITY. And the there are 1,400 more en route. There are a total of 4,000 in Louisiana and 12,000 more will be there by Friday. Considering the difficulties in getting people and supplies in there with roads out, etc; the response and specifically, our american heroes -the responders- is nothing short of amazing.

Check your facts.

Natural disasters do happen, and it is always terrible when they do; the suffering of our fellow Americans is nearly intolerable to watch. I’ve donated every penny I can afford and am trying to figure out ways to afford more.

Pointing fingers and politicizing this tragedy just highlights your own sickness.

Posted by: missjoy3 at September 1, 2005 4:15 PM
Comment #77038

spinnet:

let’s blame the disaster on universities…

wow….i thought i had heard it all…

Posted by: views at September 1, 2005 4:17 PM
Comment #77044
womanmarine wrote: d.a.n: Sorry, but we knew it was a category 5 and approximately where it was going. The alert should have been put in place then, all the preparation for the troops, police, helicopters. The helicoptors and troops they are NOW sending should have been there by now. So what if they might have later had to stand down. Once the first information of the damage, this stuff should have been deployed enmass. This is disgusting.

womanmarine,
You may be right that help and FEMA are sluggish.
I’m wasn’t arguing things most likely could have been planned much better. I don’t know that, but suspect it is true.

There will be a lot of hind-sight, and the governments will all be shown to be irresponsible and negligent at many points along the way.

Regarding the troops. I don’t think federal troops can enter a state without being requested by that state’s governor.

Who do you think is most responsible for what you believe is a late and insufficient course of action? What could have been done to lessen the loss of life and property ?

Posted by: d.a.n at September 1, 2005 4:23 PM
Comment #77049
I am just wondering what you base this statement on. I believe most on the far left have the attitude of “Love everyone, even our enemies”.

It depends on who the enemies are. If the enemy is someone who is disagreeing with them or has a different point of view, venom and hatred are the first things to fly from their lips. If you agree with them, then you can do whatever you want and they will love you.

Of course, generalizations and all, but look at what passes for ‘discourse’ on places like democrats.com and democraticunderground.com. And no, I do not think all democrats, especially the ones closer to the middle are like this, but I most definately think that my description fits after reading their ravings for the past several years…

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 1, 2005 4:31 PM
Comment #77051

Missjoy:

I know how many national guard and other forces are in New Orleans. I know my facts.

This is 5 days after the hurricane, and the available troops they are JUST NOW sending could have gone in two days ago.

I’m not politicizing anything. I’m saying we haven’t done enough, fast enough. I would say the same no matter what party was in control under these circumstances. Keep your politics to yourself. I am more concerned by the people dying of starvation and dehydration.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 4:34 PM
Comment #77053

d.a.n.,

How are you doing?

A good start would be that if you are going to build and/or live in a city that is on an ocean front (noted for serious hurricanes), and between a huge lake and the Mississippi River and, is below sea level, you had better anticipate the worst.

Such a city would by necessity have to be protected with a levee, dike, pumping and water control system second to none. There would have to be build and no build zones as well.

There should be periodic “practice” disaster evacuations like there are in Tsunami prone areas.

There should be building codes that are strictly enforced.

In the case of New Orleans which is rich in tradition and history and for that matter financially solid due to the events taking place there, there is no excuse for not being prepared.

Also since the government has a 700 million barrel oil reserve that is dependent to some extent on the accessibility of the port and river, they should be heavilly involved at least from a financial standpoint.

It was not the latest diversion of funds from the levee project that caused this problem. There have been 100 years to get this done.

Posted by: steve smith at September 1, 2005 4:40 PM
Comment #77061

I think we need to get the left/right politics out of this.

It is not about Iraq. There are more troops involved (25,000) than have ever been deployed.

This is not about political ideology but political competance. Obviously something is seriously wrong both on the ground (looting, snipers etc), and in the government (slow or lacking FEMA action). The response of the victums and the government is very poor, and working against each other to multiply the suffering.

We are seeing humanity at it’s worse. Take away the sniper fire, and more supplies would arrive, and more people would be evacuated. Have a more competent response and there would be no sniper fire.

Craig

Posted by: Craig Holmes at September 1, 2005 4:59 PM
Comment #77065

The Director of FEMA just said, on National television, that he thought the security in New Orleans was pretty good.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 5:20 PM
Comment #77066

He just said you can’t just sling supplies under a helicopter and start delivering them.

I would like to see this Rule changed.

Posted by: womanmarine at September 1, 2005 5:23 PM
Comment #77076

Ya know…..what’s w/ the blame game here?
It’s a natural dissaster for peats sake!
Who should have done what and nonsense is really easy to spew!
The truth is this…whenever I have witnessed precautions trying to be put in place before an actual event occures…everone yells about the cost! You can’t win for losing!(I do know about this 1st hand…I lived in a flood area in Missouri….it happened like clock work every couple of years and people still did not want to spend a dime on prevention measures)
This is not to get religious or anything(trust me I’m far from that) but the story of Noah comes to mind….everyone just laughed and ignored his warning!
The point being is this….NOW THEY ARE AWARE, what counts is how they rectify it from here on out!

Posted by: Traci at September 1, 2005 5:40 PM
Comment #77078

Rhinehold,

I agree with you that it is sad that some people are so ideologically driven that even a tragedy becomes an excuse to score political points or trot out some loathsome vitriol against their target of choice.

You err, however, in implying that such meanness is associated with extremism in particular, when you refer to the “far left” and “far right”. There are mean people who are politically centrists and there are kind and caring people who might be labeled by some as “far right” or “far left”. There are other reasons to be wary of extremism, but in and of itself, it is not necessarily hateful. I won’t deny that hateful talk is more likely to come out of groups on the extremes, but implying guilt by association is not justified.

As for the conspiracy theorists, most do have overactive imaginations, and I don’t find the one you cited suggesting dynamite may have been used, to be particularly credible. But even the poster suggested it with doubt. Even though most conspiracy theories are baseless, some small percentage of them actually turn out to be true, so I listen skeptically, but don’t summarily dismiss every one just because it is a conspiracy theory. Truth can be stranger than fiction.

The first order of business in a tragedy is to take care of the victims in an ideologically blind way. In that spirit, I do support your post.

Posted by: Walker Willingham at September 1, 2005 5:45 PM
Comment #77086

“it’s a Republican hurricane, the Republican’s should clean up the damage”

Yeah, and the Democrats would’ve been able to prevent it? Where do these idiots come from?

sassyliberal
I believe most on the far left have the attitude of “Love everyone, even our enemies”.
thanks, sassyliberal

No there hatemonger, they hate anyone that disagrees with them.

Spinnet
I believe the problems are with universities that failed to produce ideas to help address problems like this.

And they could’ve stopped it? Right?

let’s blame the disaster on universities…

wow….i thought i had heard it all…

Well views just goes to show you, right about the time you think you’ve heard or see it all,there’s always somethig comes up.

He just said you can’t just sling supplies under a helicopter and start delivering them.

They did a good job of it in Vietman.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 1, 2005 5:56 PM
Comment #77087
d.a.n., How are you doing?
Great Steve. Thanks for asking. I hope you’re doing well too (as well as can be expected, I know you’re fighting for survival).
A good start would be that if you are going to build and/or live in a city that is on an ocean front (noted for serious hurricanes), and between a huge lake and the Mississippi River and, is below sea level, you had better anticipate the worst.
Yes, more, bigger, and better levees would have prevented so much disaster. Sadly, public works and infrastructures are often in disrepair or insufficient. Lately, much of the nations infrastructure is crumbling and in need of repair.
Such a city would by necessity have to be protected with a levee, dike, pumping and water control system second to none. There would have to be build and no build zones as well.
I can see it now. Every year, when the city budget was on the table, they chose to put it off for later consideration.
There should be periodic “practice” disaster evacuations like there are in Tsunami prone areas.
Interesting. I wonder if the local emergency services ever practiced for such a disaster.
There should be building codes that are strictly enforced.
Well, we all know how that goes. Stricter codes = higher costs Sadly, builders cut corners everywhere possible (sometimes, illegally).
In the case of New Orleans which is rich in tradition and history and for that matter financially solid due to the events taking place there, there is no excuse for not being prepared.
New Orleans will be rebuilt. It will take a long time, but it will probably be better than before when it’s finished (except for those that sadly lost their lives).
Also since the government has a 700 million barrel oil reserve that is dependent to some extent on the accessibility of the port and river, they should be heavilly involved at least from a financial standpoint.
Yes, in view of our current energy vulnerabilities, that will most likely receive high priority.
It was not the latest diversion of funds from the levee project that caused this problem. There have been 100 years to get this done.
True. There’s been time to prepare. But, we never do, do we? We never think it will happen to us.
Walker Willingham wrote: The first order of business in a tragedy is to take care of the victims in an ideologically blind way. In that spirit, I do support your post.
Well said. . Posted by: d.a.n at September 1, 2005 5:59 PM
Comment #77088

While Katrina should be bring out the best in our society, I am not surprised about what is happening. First, FEMA and other Officails believed that this storm would be routine. Shelter the people until the storm passed and than send them back home. However, history should of taught us a lesson. Andrew, Fran, Floyd, etc. all were Cat 3 or better and left the areas that they hit in riuns. The old saying “Prepare for the Worst, Hope for the Best, and Pary you land somewhere in the Middle” comes to mind when I look at the problem facing 1,000’s of Americans. Well, driven by Media outcry, President Bush now has to come to terms with the fact that all the money in the world can not satisfy the Consumer when their basic needs are not meet by Society.

Now, thanks to Mr. Slate, CNN picked up on the message that almost everyone in New Orleans in Black and Poor putting the Repiblicain Party in the hot seat. Yes, some citizens still haven’t learned manners and will try to cope out to violence, but how many citizens are just trying to be good consumers? Just waiting for a Leader of the Community to stand up and say “Clean it Up?”

The best thing Congress could do is pass a bill authorizing the Cities and Counties effected by Katrina to hire every citizen they can to restore the ground so that the Infrastructure can go in. This idea would settle nerves, give paychecks to families, and bring back some kind of order to Life. Or will President Bush and Co. want to keep all the money for themselve and take years to restore the area?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 1, 2005 6:00 PM
Comment #77104

Loathe as I am to quote myself, on August 27th I said,

As a complete non-sequitur, I just saw a report on CNN from the head of Emergency Response in New Orleans. He said that if the eye of Hurricane Katrina hits the Big Easy dead on, he estimates the casualties at 40,000 to 50,000!

Unfortunately, I thought that he was exaggerating. Apparently not, and if anybody knew about the government’s lack of preparedness, he would.

I simply cannot believe the dearth of planning. I mean, didn’t anybody during the last fifty years or so say to themselves, “Hmmm. I wonder what we should do if the levee breaks after a hurricane”? (Except, of course, to get forty to fifty thousand body bags ready to go.)

FEMA; Army Corp of Engineers; DHS; local, state & federal Democrats and Republicans. Looks to me like there’s going to be plenty of culpability to be spread around. The politicians will try to smear on another, and the bureaucrats will try to cover their butts. Just another busy day in the land of the free and the home of the brave. I can hardly wait for the finger-pointing congressional hearings; it’s always easier to blame than it is to fix.

I just hope that Bush doesn’t try to promote everybody responsible.

Posted by: Chuck Hanrahan at September 1, 2005 6:34 PM
Comment #77111

Right/Left/Whatever. Can we all just agree that people should NOT be donating money to Pat Robertson to try and help out? Somebody should tell FEMA.

Posted by: Burt at September 1, 2005 6:46 PM
Comment #77130

I can’t belive that Bush didn’t bother to end his vacation until Wednesday- the same day he declared a federal disaster- and 36 hours after the hurricain and levy broke. Can you imagine if he had waited two days to declared the WTC a disaster? But all the people there had money and worked- whereas those stuck in New Orleans are poor, and couldn’t get out. And he won’t bring any troops home to help- and is only sending in the national guard slowly. If nothing else- his actions show how his administration truly does not give a damn for those not paying into the higer eschelon of taxes….Not to say that anyone else in the govenrment is pushing to help more either though..

Posted by: Mel at September 1, 2005 7:46 PM
Comment #77132

Why does everything have to be partisan? Why does blame always have to be placed? And so quickly?

These people need help, not more Bush-bashing or Clinton-bashing or anyone-bashing! They need help!

Posted by: Stephanie at September 1, 2005 7:59 PM
Comment #77137

Henry Schlatman said:

The best thing Congress could do is pass a bill authorizing the Cities and Counties effected by Katrina to hire every citizen they can to restore the ground so that the Infrastructure can go in. This idea would settle nerves, give paychecks to families, and bring back some kind of order to Life. Or will President Bush and Co. want to keep all the money for themselve and take years to restore the area?

This sounds good, but it will never work. The city workers unions, carpenters, electricians, plumbers & so on would never allow non-union workers to clean up the mess. I cant remember exactly, but wasnt there a big stink by unions in NY after 9/11? Maybe someone can help. If the president authorized a citizen cleanup as you say, the president would be accused of busting the unions.

Anyone:

Wouldnt the Mayer & city council have the responsibility of making plans for a catastrophe such as this?

Mel said:
I can’t believe that Bush didn’t bother to end his vacation until Wednesday- the same day he declared a federal disaster- and 36 hours after the hurricane and levy broke.

Well Mel, I cant believe the congress was forced to cut their vacations short to come back to DC to appropriate the money. You would have thought they would have come back without being told.

Why havent we received any offer of help from other country? Why havent we heard from the Hollywood crowd? You would think they would want to have a benefit concert or something. I just had a strange thought. You dont suppose helping the victims would appear to the beautiful people (Hollywood crowd) to be helping the Bush administration?

Perplexed


Posted by: Perplexed at September 1, 2005 8:53 PM
Comment #77140

Perplexed,
Under State Law, The Governor has complete Authority to do whatever it takes to restore Law and Order. Politically Speaking, all except “Learned Skills” would not with stand Public Opinion for even a CEO should know how to use a shovel. No, America’s Task is to get these Citizens some Food & Money everything else has to take second fiddle.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 1, 2005 9:33 PM
Comment #77141

Perplexed,

There is a major benefit concert going on, with Tim McGraw in the lime light, as he is a Louisiana native.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 1, 2005 9:33 PM
Comment #77143

It is a free country still, and folks can say what they want. Attacking officials now responsible for saving lives, reducing suffering, and bringing order back to the chaos called Katrina, cannot serve a positive purpose at this time. More importantly attacking such officials increasing their stress and diverting their attention could possibly interfere with efforts to aid and serve those most in need at this time. Governors Haley Barbour (R) of Mississippi and Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) of Louisiana have many sleepless nights of worry, stress, and difficult decision making ahead of them, and I would call on the media, the pundits, and most especially political competitors to exercise the greatest of civility in assessing and evaluating the rescue efforts underway.

It is vital that professionals review and assess rescue efforts; and if better ideas occur to enhance those efforts, they should be offered. But, the victims will not be served by political rancor or taking advantage of leader’s 100% focus on rescue to criticize and demean them or their mistakes while they have no time to respond. Professionals in government and in all political parties should rebuke such opportunism, I would recommend. In addition, citizens unaffected too can do their part by refusing to participate in such counterproductive dialogue or offering support to opportunists who would take advantage of our leaders dedicating their every waking moment to ending the suffering.

This call for civility is temporary. Just until the lifesaving is over and the refugee’s lives have been returned to some resemblance of normality. It would be too much to ask for such restraint to become permanent, given the competitive nature of American politics. However, our compassion for the victims can surely motivate us to exercise some self-restraint and civility for a short time.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 1, 2005 9:36 PM
Comment #77150

I wouldn’t really consider Tim McGraw to be one of the beautiful people from Hollywood. Didn’t he sign at one of Sean Hannity’s Freedom Concerts?

David:

“More importantly attacking such officials increasing their stress and diverting their attention could possibly interfere with efforts to aid and serve those most in need at this time…Professionals in government and in all political parties should rebuke such opportunism, I would recommend. In addition, citizens unaffected too can do their part by refusing to participate in such counterproductive dialogue or offering support to opportunists who would take advantage of our leaders dedicating their every waking moment to ending the suffering.”

It’s a shame you don’t feel the same way about the president, his cabinet, & the troops.

Perplexed

Posted by: Perplexed at September 1, 2005 10:06 PM
Comment #77153

Not a shame at all. There is no emergency in Iraq, it is now just business as usual for the Whitehouse, all the body bags and full veteran’s hosptitals. Just routine, not like what is happening in the Gulf Coast areas hit.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 1, 2005 10:10 PM
Comment #77154

Perplexed:

“It’s a shame you don’t feel the same way about the president, his cabinet, & the troops.”

Indeed. And we are saddened that you enjoy torturing people… and so on and so forth. Always gotta have “The Troops” in the sentence. Otherwise, BushCo would just be incompetent idiots.

Posted by: Aldous at September 1, 2005 10:14 PM
Comment #77155

BTW. Since SO many Republicans don’t know once again, BushCo took the budget for levee improvements and repair to finance his Iraq War Project. You can google it easily.

Posted by: Aldous at September 1, 2005 10:17 PM
Comment #77156

Perplexed, Bush just returned from a 30 day vacation. Doesn’t sound like he considers Iraq an emergency the way the Mississippi and Louisiana Governors do Katrina. Huge differences! HUGE!

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 1, 2005 10:22 PM
Comment #77168

When you believe in nothing, you will fall for anything. Many (not all) of the lefties on this blog criticize people of faith. But this, and other recent posts show that when you dont believe in a supreme being, you start looking for replacements. It seems you have found it in George Bush. Everything that happens, according to you guys, is the fault of George Bush. No human or group of humans could possible have the capacity to simultaneously monitor all the things you blame Bush for.

The President is the most powerful person in the U.S., but he is not a supreme ruler let alone a supreme being. As a resident of a democracy, I am glad he is not accountable for everything.

Aldous

I am flattered at the omniscience and omnipotence you seem to attribute to us Republicans. I wish it were true. You can go on believing in us, if you want. But you really ought to do something to propitiate us if you think we are that powerful.

Posted by: jack at September 1, 2005 11:14 PM
Comment #77171

Jack,
As a politically Independent person, I do believe that the Buck stops at The Presidents Door. It is his JOB and if the Republicans can’t take Self-Responsibilty than why do they preach it?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 1, 2005 11:25 PM
Comment #77173

I believe in God. I believe in holding responsible those who seek positions as decision makers and policy makers for 294 million other people. Bush wasn’t drafted into the Whitehouse, he chose to ask for the position and asked us for our faith and trust in him to live up to that responsibility.

Any and All of those 294 million people who don’t believe their interests are being served by that person who chose to sit in the Oval Office, have not only a right, but a duty and responsibility to themselves to speak out on how they believe that leader is failing to serve their interests.

And that is a lot of what is going on with the left. They have a set of expectations as to what consitutes responsible service to them from the Oval Office holder, and they are expressing their disappointment, as they should. Beats taking up arms and storming the Bastille seeking the immediate removal of the King. Well, most of the time, anyway. We can’t forget that our Founding Fathers had reached the end of their rope with the King.

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 1, 2005 11:39 PM
Comment #77177

Perplexed,

“It’s a shame you don’t feel the same way about the president, his cabinet, & the troops.”

Sheeeesh, what a grouch.

Henry,

“As a politically Independent person, I do believe that the Buck stops at The Presidents Door.”

The buck barely slows down there.

Posted by: Rocky at September 2, 2005 12:06 AM
Comment #77180

I *don’t* believe in god, and resent any moral superiority that anyone who needs to believe in an imaginary individual judging them in order to get through the day attempts to lay at my feet by invoking the non-existent damnation…

I also don’t feel I need to qualify my position on any subject in politics by stating my religious beliefs. I believe that bringing ‘faith’ into any political discussion is a terrible use of something that SHOULD be a private matter between you and your diety, used simply as a crutch because nothing else can be thought of to say to make your point.

Personally, I would like to see some more NON-religious people in office just because I’m tired of seeing the same ‘fake’ christians trotted out each couple of years, pretending to go to church and saying all the right things just to get the vote of people who are by definition willing to believe any fairy tale they hear…

Posted by: Rhinehold at September 2, 2005 12:25 AM
Comment #77184

Right on, Rhinehold. Reminds of Pat Robertson’s remark about hurricanes being punishment from God. I thought Louisiana, Mississipi and Alabama were god fearing Republican states. Ooop! Guess God makes mistakes too! :-)

Politics and religion really should not mix, the leaders of one must be held accountable and the LEADER of the other can never be, despite Robertson’s warped view of his vengefulness. (I even question whether HE is a he. I mean has anyone ever looked under HIS robes?)

Posted by: David R. Remer at September 2, 2005 12:51 AM
Comment #77210

Roky,
The way that I see it is that even President Bush Senoir is getting tried of covering for his son’s “Silver Spoon” mistakes. True, President Bush could not stop the Hurricane, but there is no reason for not having a Relief Bill in his hand the moment the Storm came a shore. Oh, that right he was on vacation and couldn’t take 2 seconds out of his busy day to think.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 2, 2005 3:01 AM
Comment #77241

Bush is president and that brings a lot of responsibility, more than any other job. But I have noticed a disturbing trend among the Bush haters. No matter what happens, they blame Bush personally. Everybody else is off the hook. We have a very diverse country. We have checks and balances at the Federal level. We have various layers of government. We have thousands millions - of people involved in decision-making. Individuals have rights. They make decisions that affect them. Consider all these guys in New Orleans who evidently refused to leave before the storm. I know, they all had good reasons.

Aldous is a good example. I know he doesnt speak for most of you any more than Pat Roberson speaks for me and he probably isnt serious about what he writes, but he epitomizes a line of thought prevalent among progressives. No matter what happens, he always says it is the fault of Republicans. It doesnt make me angry, but it is depressing because it shows me that a significant number of people are unable of understanding our system and they cant be trusted with power in the future.

Bush is president and that brings a lot of responsibility, more than any other job. But I have noticed a disturbing trend among the Bush haters. No matter what happens, they blame Bush personally. Everybody else is off the hook. We have a very diverse country. We have checks and balances at the Federal level. We have various layers of government. We have thousands millions - of people involved in decision-making. Individuals have rights. They make decisions that affect them. Consider all these guys in New Orleans who evidently refused to leave before the storm. I know, they all had good reasons.

Aldous is a good example. I know he doesnt speak for most of you any more than Pat Roberson speaks for me and he probably isnt serious about what he writes, but he epitomizes a line of thought prevalent among progressives. No matter what happens, he always says it is the fault of Republicans. It doesnt make me angry, but it is depressing because it shows me that a significant number of people are unable of understanding our system and they cant be trusted with power in the future.


I used to do a speech about winners and losers. One of the hypothetical examples was a person who rents a cabin in the mountains for a family vacation. It is supposed to be stocked with food and supplies. Its not. What do you do? Do you stay there and complain that you have been cheated and its not your fault, or do you do something to mitigate your situation yourself. Not many people would just complain and starve in a clear situation like this, but it is what losers do in many less clear cut cases.

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 8:14 AM
Comment #77267

Perplexed wrote:

Why haven�t we heard from the Hollywood crowd? You would think they would want to have a benefit concert or something. I just had a strange thought. You don�t suppose helping the victims would appear to the beautiful people (Hollywood crowd) to be helping the Bush administration?

Another fine thought from the most Perplexed person on WatchBlog.

Here is some of what Hollywood is planning.

Now, I’ll grant you that people like Ellen DeGeneres are right wing Republicans, but at least they’re trying to help.

Posted by: Burt at September 2, 2005 9:35 AM
Comment #77272
But I have noticed a disturbing trend among the Bush haters. No matter what happens, they blame Bush personally.

Whereas with the Bush apologists like you, whenever he does something wrong - you blame Clinton.

We have checks and balances at the Federal level.

Fewer than when Bush took office, that’s for sure.

Individuals have rights.

Fewer than when Bush took office, that’s for sure.

Consider all these guys in New Orleans who evidently refused to leave before the storm. I know, they all had good reasons.

Yes, many people “refused” to leave. Refused to leave because they didn’t have a car or other mode of transportation to get out. I guess they should have walked to their summer cabin in the woods, right?

What do you do? Do you stay there and complain that you have been cheated and its not your fault, or do you do something to mitigate your situation yourself. Not many people would just complain and starve in a clear situation like this, but it is what losers do in many less clear cut cases.

If I’m not mistaken, what you’re saying is that Republicans should stop making excuses for Bush when he screws up, but should acknowledge the problems and find ways to fix them, right? Hey Jack, we agree!


Posted by: Burt at September 2, 2005 9:44 AM
Comment #77303

“Right/Left/Whatever. Can we all just agree that people should NOT be donating money to Pat Robertson to try and help out? Somebody should tell FEMA.”

Personally I could not disagree more. What is the difference to someone who is starving and homeless and holding a baby whether the relief he or she receives comes from Pat Robertson, The Pope or Osama Bin Laden.

I guess some people will conclude that if Pat Robertson collects money he will keep some for himself, send some to Bush and give what’s left to the hurricane victims (under the condition that they become a follower)

Posted by: steve smith at September 2, 2005 11:09 AM
Comment #77324


It is clear that you dont trust the president, so it should make you happy that in the U.S., the central Federal government does not have authority over routine state and local matters. Much of the preparedness and local law enforcement would fall to the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana. I know that New Orleans is legendary for corruption and mismanagement, although I dont know much about the current mayor. Other places along the Gulf dont seem to be in quite the same amount of trouble. My point is that you can’t just shoot this straight up to the Federal Government in general and the president specifically.

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 11:31 AM
Comment #77335

Jack:
“but it is depressing because it shows me that a significant number of people are unable of understanding our system”

I understand this system. In this system, you are on your own. Always. No matter what. In this system, it’s all about personal responsibility. Period. End of Story. If you can’t manage to evacuate yourself, it is all on your head. If you work, but aren’t paid a living wage, have no vehicle to call your own, and nowhere to go, you must have some deep character flaw. And in a way, you deserve this. You are not strong enough. You are not smart enough. You are expendable. Is that the system you’re talking about Jack?

How is it that, with this wonderful system of ours, this is happening? In contrast, when the island of Cuba was hit by an especially powerful hurricane last year, the Castro government evacuated over a million people. Not a single life was lost. I’m no Communist. I just realize that our system has serious problems. Problems that cannot be solved by that invisible hand. Invisible indeed. This tragedy points out that there are times when the intervention of a flesh and blood human hand is exactly what is needed.

Posted by: Mara at September 2, 2005 11:58 AM
Comment #77348

Perplexed,

Here’s some more.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 2, 2005 12:51 PM
Comment #77355

Mara

There are times for a forced evacuation or the imposition of martial law. You have to talk to the ACLU about when they would not sue to stop it.

The fact is that the Feds do not have that power. They have to work through local leaders. That is the way we want it most of the time.

Do you want to trust President Bush in the U.S. with the kind of arbitrary power of Castro in Cuba? And dont bother to write that he already has it, because if you really believed that was true you wouldnt have written the criticism.

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 1:13 PM
Comment #77391

Why does everything have to be partisan?

Republicans did such a great job making Clinton’s sex life a partisan issue, now it’s the Democrats’ turn.

Posted by: Bobo at September 2, 2005 2:50 PM
Comment #77465

As long as we’re taking a gander at the words being used to discuss this disaster, let’s take a quick look at these by our President:

The good news is — and it’s hard for some to see it now — that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott’s house — he’s lost his entire house — there’s going to be a fantastic house. And I’m looking forward to sitting on the porch. (Laughter.)
http://www.prnewswire.com

Wow, guess the reports of him lacking empathy were WAY off….

Posted by: Jarin at September 2, 2005 5:12 PM
Comment #77470

Jack.
In North Carolina a few years ago we had two Hurricanes hit our state. Both times or Governot had Emergency Relief Bills in his hands before they touch land. In fact, if one looks at NC’s Respone Time to even the worst hit places was less than two days. Governor Hunt and President Clinton had no trouble getting their act together so why can’t President Bush?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 2, 2005 5:23 PM
Comment #77474

Henry

I dont know much about Louisiana Governor Blanco. Maybe that state doesnt run as well as NC.

Beyond that, the situation is very different. New Orleans is a bigger, dirtier, more corrupt and poorer city than any place you have in the whole State of N. Carolina. It is also below see level. AND they dont have those nice barrier islands to absorb the first hits.

This was a really big hurricane and it did a lot of damage. You can blame the politicians if you need to. Their response could have been better.

There are two aspects to this. The first the immense destruction. We really arent hearing too much about that, but we will. This is nature not Bush. The second is the human toll. That is where we see the pictures. The problem there is that too many people were left in New Orleans. You just can’t get that many buses and helicopters in to move that many people in such a short time. Some estimates are as high as 200,000 people (Your biggest coastal city (in NC) has only half that many people TOTAL) Beyond that, many of the people in the city are behaving badly. You might justify looting if people were searching for needed supplies, but the rapes and assaults are just bad guys doing what they can when the police are gone.

Why werent the people evacuated? Nobody was sure how hard the storm would hit. Some people wouldnt leave. The local authorities responsible for the order in the city dropped the ball. Not much of this is George Bushs responsibility. The Feds come in when the State and Local authorities can’t cope. Are you saying that the Feds should have superceded them BEFORE the disaster?

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 5:51 PM
Comment #77500

Jack,
Politics aside, President Bush watched the same thing that we all wittnessed unless he just don’t care and I know better than that. He and he alone has The Divine Authority of The Constitution to do whatever it takes to provide for The Common Defense of Our Citizens. If the Mayor and/or Governor could not get the job done than he has the right to take them out to the Woodshed for a frank and blount talk. And speakig kindly President Bush’s Self-Nature, I do not see that in him.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 2, 2005 6:36 PM
Comment #77503

Henry

Have you read the Constitution lately? Maybe the 10th Ammendment. What would you say if the President summoned a governor or a mayor for a frank talk in the woodshed. I don’t want a president to have such power. I don’t think you do either or maybe you would like the Patriot Act increased 10x.

Posted by: Jack at September 2, 2005 6:40 PM
Comment #77507

Henry,

How can the Constitution of the United States of America give anyone “Divine Authority”? Is it now a religious document? Or is the Constitution God?

Posted by: Stephanie at September 2, 2005 6:47 PM
Comment #77509

Bobo
Republicans did such a great job making Clinton’s sex life a partisan issue, now it’s the Democrats’ turn.

I could care less about Biiiery’s sex life.
He committed a felony by lieing under oath.
That makes it a public issue just the same as it would be if you lied under oath.

Posted by: Ron Brown at September 2, 2005 6:48 PM
Comment #77510

Jack.
Sorry to inform you, but every President since Washington has had the right to declare a National Disaster and marshal any assistance required to ensure domestic tranquility. Although the “Proper Channels” are to wait for a written request from a Governor, the Law still stands in place because of the worse case senerio.

Think it is rough in New Orleans now? What would of happened if The Mayor & Governer plus their Staff got taken out? True, such a political move by any President of America would put him squarely in the crosshairs of his opponent, but thats why he gets paid “The Big Bucks.”

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 2, 2005 6:50 PM
Comment #77513

Stephanie,
The Divine that I was refering to was the Unalienable Righteousness of The Constitutional Law. Would you want a President who could not protect you and your land if all other elected officails over you parished in a Natural Disaster?

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 2, 2005 6:54 PM
Comment #77557

Henry,

You seem to put a lot of faith in a document that can be and has been used and abused.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 2, 2005 8:06 PM
Comment #77571

So, Henry, when should Bush have declared martial law and invade the State of Louisiana? Before the hurrcane hit I don’t believe he would have gotten away with. After, it was already too late. There were various logistical problems mentioned above. You just can’t move 200,000 people that fast.

As far as I recall the mayor and governor have not been “taken out”. So you are advocating that Bush seize power from these democratically (more or less - this is Louisiana after all) elected officals?

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 8:18 PM
Comment #77587

The political fault in all this is NOT a Republican or a Democrat, but an argument in The United States of America that has raged since the revolution: States verses Feds. States want control over themselves but money from the Feds., Feds. want control over the States but they should largely fund themselves. One has to ask themselves, before placing blame, if the infrastructure in New Orleans is under the control of the Federal Government or The State of Louisiana and then if it’s The State of Louisiana or the county or municipality (not sure how Louisiana breaks down beaurcratically, forgive my ignorance). Only THEN can you begin to assign blame to the responsible party(ies), not based of their political beliefs but on their role(s) in the government agency(ies) that legally are in control of the operation and funding of the levees.

Posted by: keith at September 2, 2005 8:50 PM
Comment #77602

keith,

The levies are federally owned, controlled by the Engineer Corps. That’s already been discussed.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 2, 2005 10:10 PM
Comment #77607

Keith

Maybe there is no particular blame at all. We are always looking for it. Anyone or any system under stress will show cracks. It doesnt meant there is blame. Even the best swimmer can’t swim across the Pacific Ocean. That doesnt mean he is not a good swimmer or that he should be blamed for his short comings.

We had a really big storm. New Orleans was hit. New Orleans is below seas level. For years we have maintained the course of a river that doesnt want to stay in its banks and have reaped big benefits. Who is to blame for all of this? Is there any blame at all or is it just the way life goes?

We are really arrogant to believe that someone is always to blame for every event.

Posted by: jack at September 2, 2005 10:37 PM
Comment #77647

Stepanie,
Putting faith in Human Nature’s drive to always be found to be right is not a bad thing. In fact, The Founding Fathers recognized this Human Need and the fact that every Human can tell what is Unalienable Right Regardless by their own Common Sense and the Tone of their voice. Lost today in this tit for tat political world is the natural course of Human Debate looking for what exactly is Unalienable Right Regardless as the point of compromise.

Now, I’m not talking about being a Deity, but if being Right is wrong than America might as well kiss OBL’s Butt and I’m not ready to sell my soul to the Devil or OBL just because of a simple stroke of the “Invisible Hand.”

Jack,
President Bush’s opportunity to step up and take the ball was the day the two levees broke. At that point all Local & State publicly stated that control was lost and the Power of the Federal Government was needed to bring about civil control.

As far as moving 200,000 citizens out of harms way is not that hard. Well over half has the ability to walk out, but now are being told that they can not leave. Nonetheless, transportation for a 60 mile trip to dry ground would take an hour to and from. A school bus holds approximently 66 people and a 747 holds about 350 passengers which could move alot of citizens if organized. In fact, I do not care if they got a ride in the back of a hay wagon, the bottom line is no one thought or even plan for “What If!”

This mess should be a lesson for although this was a Natural Disaster, what would we be doing if this would happen to be dirty bomb or chemical attack? Moving 100’s of thousands or even millions may be involved for Homeland Security and that puts actions squarely on The Federal Government.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 3, 2005 3:54 AM
Comment #77665

Stephanie,

You seem to put a lot of faith in a document that can be and has been used and abused.

Wow. A trashing of the U.S. Constitution. Meanwhile, I seem to remember a few recent threads where you defended the Iraqi Constitution. Looks like we know where you’d feel more comfortable.

I never thought I’d see someone bad mouth the Constitution. Stephanie, why do you and other people on the right hate America?

Posted by: Burt at September 3, 2005 9:31 AM
Comment #77677
Sorry to inform you, but every President since Washington has had the right to declare a National Disaster and marshal any assistance required to ensure domestic tranquility. Although the “Proper Channels” are to wait for a written request from a Governor, the Law still stands in place because of the worse case senerio.

Thanks…I was wondering about that, because I’d heard in the past that a Governor had to formally request help. But, didn’t the Governor do that early on?

Burt,
The Constitution contains a lot of wisdom, but it’s not written in stone and it could use a few changes (in the areas of election reform, taxation, entitlements, spending, law enforcement, eminent domain, border security, etc.).
I think a few people are justifiably concerned, that this nation is very close to the edge of a narrow path with cliffs on each side. We may soon learn that we are not invincible.

The sluggish response of FEMA is a result of poor planning.

But the biggest exacerbating factor of the numerous problems in New Orleans is primarily due to one reason that many seem to side-step or ignore:
______________________________________
Thousands of people could have evacuated, and foolishly chose not to. Those that ignored the warnings negligently (bordering on criminal) endanger themselves, their families, those that could not evacuate, and those that are trying to rescue and help them now.
Therefore, it’s unfair to heap all the blame on those that are trying to help them now, because they didn’t think so many would foolishly refuse to evacuate the path of a category 5 hurricane, with several days of advance notice, knowing the levees were questionably reliable, and knew it could be dangerous.
______________________________________
Now, that should in no way dimish the efforts to help them now, even if those that could have, but refused to evacuate, exacerbated their own situation.
In the future, when authorities tell people to evacuate, hopefully, they’ll listen, because not doing so, endangers not only themselves, but selfishly endangers others that will truly need rapid help and rescue, and should be burdened with the fools that ignored the warnings.

Posted by: d.a.n at September 3, 2005 11:02 AM
Comment #77686

d.a.n.
I would be inclined to agree with you if every citizens was economically viable and financailly independent enough to enjoy flying out of New Orleans, but the facts do not stack up to the facts at hand.

I heard on one of the News programs today that some Business People (the ones wealthy enough to leave the area) would not even give a credit of $40.00 for fuel to some of those citizens still in New Orleans. Did they think the fuel that was left in their underground tanks would be good after the strom hit? Or should we be so harsh as a society as to charge those Business Leaders with murder for how many died because the only crime that they committed was believing in a Society that let them die?

Warnings are good, but unless the Community leaders do not do what it takes to evacuate everyone than we only have ourselve to blame for the Ignorance.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 3, 2005 11:33 AM
Comment #77702

Henry Schlatman,
I’m only talking about those that could leave, but chose not to.
Of course, many elderly, poor, sick, and those helping them, could not evacuate.
That’s why it’s more important than ever that those that can evacuate, do so.
Because, those that could evacuate, but didn’t are selfishly and negligently endangering those that could not evacuate.
As for those you mentioned that wouldn’t help others evacuate, they are despicable. Especially the instances (if it is true) where some were gouging and selling gasoline for $8 per gallon.

Posted by: d.a.n at September 3, 2005 12:17 PM
Comment #77724

Henry,

“Putting faith in Human Nature’s drive to always be found to be right is not a bad thing.”

Personally, I don’t think “Human Nature” has a drive. I don’t think “Human Nature” is a separate entity onto itself, but you are entitled to your beliefs.

“In fact, The Founding Fathers recognized this Human Need and the fact that every Human can tell what is Unalienable Right Regardless by their own Common Sense and the Tone of their voice.”

I have no idea where you even get this from or how you attribute it to our Founding Fathers. “Every human” cannot tell what is “Unalienable Right” (do you mean Unalienably Right or an Unalienable Right?). My children, who have diagnosises on the autistic spectrum, have a great deal of difficulty determining the difference between right and wrong, safe and danergous and other significant distictions. My children are an extreme example, but there are others.

“Lost today in this tit for tat political world is the natural course of Human Debate looking for what exactly is Unalienable Right Regardless as the point of compromise.”

I completely agree that our political landscape makes good compromises difficult to the point of being nearly impossible, but I hardly see how that justifies calling our Constitution divine.

“Now, I’m not talking about being a Deity, but if being Right is wrong than America might as well kiss OBL’s Butt and I’m not ready to sell my soul to the Devil or OBL just because of a simple stroke of the “Invisible Hand.”

Considering our partisan bickering that cannot even be curtailed by an intense natural disaster, it is my belief that we’re headed toward civil war, not kissing OBL’s butt. However, OBL will certainly take advantage of our lack of unity. In fact, I bet he revels in it. Not that this puts us into a prettier situation; I just think we’re going to tear ourselves apart with or without OBL’s help.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 2:00 PM
Comment #77729

Burt,

Nice spin! So, I take it you agree with Henry’s statement (the “he” meaning Bush):

“He and he alone has The Divine Authority of The Constitution to do whatever it takes to provide for The Common Defense of Our Citizens.”

Do you believe the Constitution grants Bush divine authority? If the Constitution is so perfect that it is beyond rebuke, then why has it needed to be amended so many times?

If Henry wants to worship the Constitution, then that is his right as granted by an AMENDMENT. However, if he wants to grant the President of the United States divine authority on the basis of his religion, then I’m going to have problems with that. The Kings of England (you know, the guys our Founding Fathers were revolting against) had supposedly divine authority from God to do whatever they wanted, including taking the virginity of their subjects on a whim. I don’t want to find out what kind of “liberties” a President will take when he’s granted divine authority by the Constitution, and I think our founding fathers would seriously object to any such abuse being based on their words.

As per Henry’s words, the Patriot Act is all hunky dory and completly within Bush’s Divine Authority. So, surely you must agree with him, since I know you must just love the Patriot Act.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 2:12 PM
Comment #77732

Henry,

“Or should we be so harsh as a society as to charge those Business Leaders with murder for how many died because the only crime that they committed was believing in a Society that let them die?”

Charging them with murder is too harsh, but charging those who did gouge with the crime they did commit isn’t. And those others who could have helped, but didn’t, i.e. the “no free gas” people…IMO, they should be towards the bottom of the list of who to rebuild (looters and such criminals should be bottom), so they can see for themselves that not being helped when you need it really sucks. But, obviously I have no control over that.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 2:20 PM
Comment #77733
Maybe there is no particular blame at all…

Ooooh, Jack. You just stepped off the deep end there. Everybody with a TV knows there’s some blame to be dished out here. Up until then you were doing ok as a Bush apologist, trying to spread the blame, but now… Ouch.

I’m also surprised that so many Republicans would be defending President Bush’s handling of this relief disaster. How confident are you guys that he can handle a massive WMD terrorist attack? Until now, I figured the Bush administration could at least pick up the pieces in a timely, orderly manner.

Posted by: American Pundit at September 3, 2005 2:23 PM
Comment #77738

Stephanie,
Check your Martial Laws and the Right of any President to protect America and her Citizens. Although you may not believe it or not, the tone of one’s voice and the ability for every Human to recognize a certain tone in the Spoken Word of Man is well established. True, your children may have been diagnosises on the autistic spectrum; however, I am sure you are aware of the experts stating that a firm gentle tone in your vioce is the proper response.

Every meet a Grandma that can make a room of Children act like little Angels just by saying something? Watch yourself and the tone of vioce you have when you know that you are right about something. Than use that tone to debate the Right and Wrong of something using reason and logic. The answer may take some time, but when you come across the correct set of words what is Right & True will shine through.

As far as holding The Constituton of America up as a Deity. Again, unless you are willing to live in an Unalienablly Wrong World than The Law of the Land must be held to a standard of being Unalienable Right regardless. Or can what I say is right just because rule our lifes? Me, even as an Anti-Authoritain by Self-Nature must submit to the Righteousness of The Laws that can be proven to be Unalienable Right Regardless or shame my own belief in My Creator.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 3, 2005 2:40 PM
Comment #77756

please help me find my son and his grand mother ther names are mae and jerrel arron and they live in poplarsville ms did that area get hit hard are they o.k call me please 6786871274 derrick austell ga. jerrells dad thanks for your help in jesus name

Posted by: derrick frank at September 3, 2005 3:29 PM
Comment #77764

Henry,

“Although you may not believe it or not, the tone of one’s voice and the ability for every Human to recognize a certain tone in the Spoken Word of Man is well established.”

Have up ever met a con-artist?

I know about tone of voice, but if you honestly think a person practiced in the art of deceit can’t fake it, then… Aaah, what can I say.

I’m not particularly practiced in the art of deceit, and yet I can still take a deep breath, and say what I need to say calmly and in a good, beneficial tone of voice to my children, even though I’m still “hoppin’ mad.” So, if you think to find the truth in the tone of human voices, I wish you the best of luck… I just don’t advise you put your money in it.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 3:47 PM
Comment #77769

Stepnanie,
A good con artist might be good enough to fool some of the people all of the time, but to those who know how to use that tone the Truth is in our own voice not thiers. Besides, don’t think that your Children do not know for it is their safegaurd against those over the age of 30.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 3, 2005 3:59 PM
Comment #77782

Henry,

“…but to those who know how to use that tone the Truth is in our own voice not thiers.”

Which goes against what you said as Unalienable Right.

“Besides, don’t think that your Children do not know for it is their safegaurd against those over the age of 30.”

I don’t know what you mean here, but maybe that’s because I’m under the age of 30 and haven’t gone through whatever unscrupulous change you seem to be hinting at.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 4:20 PM
Comment #77793

Just wait until your children become a teenager is all that I can say. Other than that, I have to refer your to Grandma.

Posted by: Henry Schlatman at September 3, 2005 4:46 PM
Comment #77804

According to 9230.1-PL, the Federal Response Plan (and it is pretty close in line with many other response plans):

Page 22, Section II: Authorities, Section A

3. No direct Federal assistance is authorized prior to a Presidential declaration. However, DHS can use limited predeclaration authorities to move Initial Response Resources (IRR) (critical goods typically needed in the immediate aftermath of a disaster (e.g., food, water, emergency generators) and emergency teams closer to potentially affected areas. DHS also can activate essential command and control structures to lessen or avert the effects of a disaster and to improve the timeliness of disaster operations. Additionally, when an incident poses a threat to life and property that cannot be effectively dealt with by the State or local governments, DHS may request the Department of Defense (DOD) to use its resources prior to a declaration to perform any emergency work ?essential for the preservation of life and property? under the Stafford Act.”

State and local governments didn’t realize the extent of the disaster (although they should have foreseen it, because there were articles in this LA newspaper this year about it) and prepared for it by requesting troops on hand ahead of time (before the hurricane hit).

Stop piling on the President, making it a race issue, or using it as an excuse to criticize foreign policies.

Nobody has mentioned the LA governer, but they are the point man for disasters in their state, because the President should be overseeing events in all four states that were hit (as well as handling a national economic and fuel crisis).

And incidentally, this Mayor Nagin is no Guiliani. He is not wise, he is not stable, he doesn’t seem mature and he’s really not helping. Guiliani kept his head after his city was hit hard. Mayor Nagin has so far focused on anecdotal details when he should have been assembling actual resource numbers and getting them to his governer to demand actual resources from available states *and* from the Federal Government. Nagin was blowing off steam, talking about junkies and their jones (wtf?).

Stop whining and expecting the President to come and wipe your butts. Man up, evaluate the extent of the emergency, get fast response survey teams out to evaluate both survivor needs and loss of resource, and request what you need from the government (in actual terms, not ‘we need ALL the Greyhound busses in America’).

And Black Caucus, glad you can take pot shots, but why not fire one or two at your fellow white senators and the white governer of Louisiana while you’re at it. After all, the President can’t have an anti-black conspiracy all by himself. Someone had to be guilty by complicity, as well. Or, was that just a quite shot at the President to deflect the fact that *you* had not spoken on behalf of all of the people stuck in NO, since you are soooo in touch with the black population. Amateurs! Save the cheap shots for an election, when they’ll carry some weight.

I don’t want my President focussing on this issue for long. I want the governer of LA doing that. I want my President running all 50 states. Not just one.

Posted by: Robert Bellamy at September 3, 2005 5:37 PM
Comment #77811

Henry,

My biggest concern about my boys’ teenage years is feeding them all. I have four boys who’ll be going through massive growth spurts and eating frenzies all at once.

Other than that, I’m quite confident in my husband’s and my ability to raise good kids.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 3, 2005 6:13 PM
Comment #77901

AP

It is still unworkable.

Most of those guys with the really big fortunes were compensated with stock before the stock had much or any market value.

I start a firm. It is doing well but I have no cash. I want you to work for me. I offer stock. The book values of the stock (my actual assets) is very low. We are not trading publicly yet. You think this is not a serious scenario, but think of Google

You would be putting the government into the business of management and government is really bad at that.

Stepanie

Real estate is the basis of a lot of prosperity. Choose the investment that works for you and that you feel comfortable with.

Posted by: jack at September 3, 2005 11:49 PM
Comment #77902

Sorry - wrong thread/

Posted by: jack at September 3, 2005 11:50 PM
Comment #77985

Jack,

I have to disagree with you, as more and more information comes out there seems to be a lot of blame, most of it can sit squarely with the beauracracy of a Federal system IMO. Why weren’t buses moved out of the flood zone to keep them available at a moments notice? Is it a manpower issue of moving them? Was an order not given by a local authority? Why was FEMA on the ground before the Hurricane, but not with enough supplies or equipment in case the worst case scenario happened? I understand that if you prepare for the worst case every time you are wasting money, however when the city is a bowl you want to be prepared.

I also note so many things about this disaster are already being assumed. I’m sure there is no denying that a large portion (if not majority) of the people who stayed did so out of lack of funds or place to go, however, how many were in that position, and how many decided to “wait it out”. Living in Florida I’ve seen many a person decide to “wait it out”, there is a stubborness in Americans, especially that don’t have much to begin with, to abandon their property. It doesn’t automatically mean they couldn’t have, nor does it mean they could have. Only through investigation can we figure out if numerous people made this hardship more difficult. Even if the percentage of people that stayed out of stubborness was 25% that’s a significant amount of resources being expended that didn’t have to be. One of the news commentators (can’t remember who) stated that a poll done in the past showed that only 70% of New Orleans residents would evacuate when ordered. Now, while you do have to plan for a significant number of people, one wonders if enough was done since that poll to get across to the general public that danger and get that number lower. Not living in New Orleans I don’t know what steps they take. In Florida if you are an evacuee with special needs there are numbers to call and groups to register with before Hurricane season to ensure you’re taken care of (hopefully I guess, looking at the situation now). Are these same things available in New Orleans? If they are how many people registered verses the estimated amount of people with special needs? Were they followed through on as far as evacuating the people?

There’s a lot of shared blame here. The President, whom I did vote for twice and his brother thrice, didn’t help matters. He’s showing a very similar disconnect to the American people that many saw in his father. I don’t know if it’s the security of not having to run for re-election or some thing else, but even to one who voted for him and has been a life long Republican it’s showing through. Someone mentioned that indeed the levees were under the Army Corps. of Engineers, but they weren’t built to withstand more than a catagory three hurricane (again MSM info), which is one reason why the evacuation order was given. Was there ever talk of re-building or re-enforcing them in the past? Seems like that should have been evaluated by someone, espcially with a storm like Andrew in recent memory.

Oddly enough I fond myself looking through some old information and reports after Andrew and found the statements by some remarkedly similar. After Andrew people were upset about the response time, lack of food and water, and felt that the poor and minority groups were being specifically ignored (the lack of FEMA and rescue personel in languages spoken in the Miami/Homestead area was especially criticized). Also looking back President Clinton was roundly dispareged for not visiting victims of tornadoes in Oklahoma as quickly as some felt he should have. So these complaints about America’s domestic disaster response are nothing new, and quite frankly other stories will come around and Tuesday people will be blogging about Roberts confirmation hearing, and talk about this will, unfortunately, get lost in the shuffle until the next disaster comes along.

Posted by: keith at September 4, 2005 12:58 PM
Comment #77986

“Even if the percentage of people that stayed out of stubborness was 25% that’s a significant amount of resources being expended that didn’t have to be.”

Just to clarify I am referring to this hypothetical number of 25% as 25% of the people who stayed. Not 25% of the total population of New Orleans.

Posted by: keith at September 4, 2005 1:01 PM
Comment #78004

Republicans need to face the facts; the wrath of Katrina exposes every flaw of the conservative ideology. If the minimum wage was raised maybe these people would have had the means to leave the state. If we treated instead of prosectuted drug addiction maybe people wouldn’t be killing each other. If we actually looked at the people of less fortune instead of turning our heads maybe we could have given them a few buses to leave town. If we kept our troops at home instead of fighting wars that we could never possibly win maybe we could have protected the innocent of New Orleans. Every policy that has been put in to the American system by the Bush administration has been exposed for what it is. The great thing about America is that we all have similar values. Conservatism is not an American value it’s a dying idea that is now finally being strangled by reality. Luckily must people are just RINO’s who voted for a cult of personality rather than something they really believe in. The solution lies in impeachment, and the sooner the better. It’s time for the Republican Party to hold the white flag high and admit that they have lost America.

Posted by: Katrina, the Grim Reaper of the Republican Party at September 4, 2005 2:03 PM
Comment #78066

>Republicans need to face the facts; the wrath of >Katrina exposes every flaw of the conservative >ideology.

Okay, let’s examine them

>If the minimum wage was raised maybe these people >would have had the means to leave the state.

If the minimum wage was increased prices would have risen as companies keep their profit margins. That’s Macro-Economics 101. So they would have had more cash that had less buying power. Situation would not have changed.(Unless you’re also advocating price controls, in which case companies have no reason to do business in the U.S. and no one has jobs).

>If we treated instead of prosectuted drug >addiction maybe people wouldn’t be killing each >other.

Most states have treatment programs for first time offenders. They don’t work or there wouldn’t be second time offenders. You probably think child molestors can be rehabilitated.

>If we actually looked at the people of less >fortune instead of turning our heads maybe we >could have given them a few buses to leave town.

They had the buses to leave town. That was part of the plan. The Mayor didn’t order the buses used to evacuate the town and instead they wound up sitting in water.

>If we kept our troops at home instead of fighting >wars that we could never possibly win maybe we >could have protected the innocent of New Orleans.

I’m glad that in 1776 the French and the Hessians didn’t have the same thoughts or I would be living in Englandville (no offense to those in the U.K. i’m sure your glad to be rid of us anyway). Why shouldn’t we give the world what was given to us?


>Every policy that has been put in to the American >system by the Bush administration has been >exposed for what it is.

Sources? Cites? What specific policies are you talking about?

>The great thing about America is that we all have >similar values. Conservatism is not an American >value it’s a dying idea that is now finally being >strangled by reality.

Liberalism is not an American value either, and the collapse of Social Security illustrates what a raw deal the New Deal was. Republicans took back the house and senate by moving to the right, Bush won re-election with a majority of the popular vote (something he failed to do the first time) even though there was ample ammunition for the Democrats to win, and Republicans GAINED seats. What exactly is your definition of dying?

Americans are neither liberal or conservative, but pragmitists. Whatever works at that time wins. There will come a time when America will move back but not because of any reason other than it’s practical at the time.


>Luckily must people are just RINO’s who voted for >a cult of personality rather than something they >really believe in.

So you’re equating Bush with Mao, Stalin, Castro, et. al? There’s not enough charisma in the world to push Bush into that realm of leadership personality. If it were a “Cult of Personality” he wouldn’t have a consistently low approval rating during his Presidency. Quit trying to be clever and make an rational argument.

>The solution lies in impeachment, and the sooner >the better. It’s time for the Republican Party to >hold the white flag high and admit that they have >lost America.

There goes any hope of the rational argument.

Posted by: keith at September 5, 2005 3:20 AM
Comment #78971

Can someone please send me info about the prisoners in these flood areas? Where are they? Have they been transfered?

Posted by: Steve at September 8, 2005 11:29 AM
Comment #79794

Mr bush does not care about black poor, why should he, he is rich white,enough said, when new orleans is rebuilt there will be no poor black they cant afford to come back-all housing will be new and unafordable to them,problem solved lets blame the supreme beings for this,-white republicans amen!

Posted by: spyder at September 11, 2005 8:38 PM
Comment #80081

I am shocked by what I see on television.I am shocked by the actions of the refugees. But how could I possibly pass judgment? I don’t know what it feels to be in 98 degree weather in a high humidity area with no water and food for days after having lost everyone, including family. I don’ tknow what I would do or how I would act. I don’t know how my colleagues, in their suits and ties, would act. I hope they would act civilally, but you can never tell. I would not be that quick in passing judgment that these people are the “dregs” of society. Also, how do we know that we did not create these “dregs” by shoving these people in the lowest socio-economic class, denying them basic human rights and respect, and then being so late in responding to them in their time of need? Aren’t we to blame too for such a disparate difference in wealth and social services?

After all, America thought that it would act differently than the Nazi soldiers, but the Miligram experiement disproved that!

Also, it’s spelled Xenophobia. It’s an X, not a Z.

Posted by: enemykombatant at September 13, 2005 12:17 AM
Comment #119847

Hi everyone. Just to let you know there is a great new raffle going on.. It’s for a brand new Mustang GT Convertible!!, I found it here.

Posted by: James at February 2, 2006 10:39 PM
Post a comment