Third Party & Independents: Archives

Bush’s sending taxpayer dollars to Africa is intrinsically a good thing because it will help people in Africa. Does Bush hope to capture some more Black vote for his party in the doing, probably. He is afterall, a politician.

But, being a fiscal conservative, I have to ask about his priorities. We have not defeated AIDS in America, so why are we sending precious deficit dollars to Africa to fight it there?

We have a national debt about to turn 8 Trillion dollars, how an earth can he justify NOT using those funds to shore up Medicare/Medicaid which he praised so highly this last week, but, which faces huge fiscal problems that will affect the entire nation?

David,

There is a lot more that could be done to help Africa, somethings that Bush would have to back away from, like removing the Global Gag rule that denies overseas aid to any foreign organisation that provided abortion services to women, or even discussed abortion as an option in counselling sessions.

And I am also upset with Bush and Congress for the ever increasing budget.

However, in the case of the recent agreement we aren’t sending over money, instead we are forgiving the loans we probably never expected to get repaid in the first place. Yes, it is giving them the money in the end, but the money was given a long time ago, it isn’t coming out of any future budget. Except for paying some of the interest back for Africa, which Bush was against doing but finally agreed to recently.

It’s a sticky line to walk, by helping out impoverished countries we can improve our own country in many ways, but at what point is how much we are giving too much and are the funds even being used for what they are for or are they getting devoured by the deplorable governments without ever seeing the intended destination?

Tough call, indeed.

So many issues here…

First of all, it’s amazing that the promoter of a ROCK CONCERT would tell people not to criticize the US president. I know it’s been around for about 50 years, but can’t we at least pretend there’s a trace of rebellion left? If Bob Geldof wants to tell people about the good things Bush has done in Africa that’s his prerogative, but if he wants to tell people to shut up that is antithetical to the spirit of a rock concert. He may as well sell ribbons in suburbia.

I think there is a point about black representation at the concert. Wouldn’t be a bit odd if someone had a fundraiser related to Ireland and didn’t want Irish-Americans involved? It’s not like Black musicians are hard to find!

I totally agree with what Woody just wrote — all of it.
There are hundreds of fantastic black musicians that could have rapidly sold tickets to white and black folks alike. I say good for Peter Gabriel — and personally, I think he’s made way better music than Bob Geldof ever has.

This is a reaction to the sheer vindictiveness of this Administration. I do not blame Live 8 for running scared. There are a great many things Bush can do to screw them. I suppose it depends on your priorities.

Bush is doing more for Africa than any other U.S. president. We can disagree about whether he should be doing this or why he is, but there is no denying that he has. I believe that he has a real commitment to making the world better and he believes that doing so in an atmosphere of market incentive will do the job best. If musicians are actually interested in helping out, and not just being provocative, they would cooperate with those that are helping. It is a sign of their maturity if they can do something like that.

As I understand it, the question is not whether blacks will be among the artist, but whether black firms and individuals will get a sufficiently large share of the spoils. Of course that is racist, but since it is politically correct racism it is not being attacked. We should judge a man by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. I heard that when I was a boy and I was convinced. I remained convinced ever since. Not everyone has.

This whole event is really showing who is part of the problem and who is part of the solution. It is not the people we usually think of.

Any dollar that goes to Africa to help with the dire situation that folks are in is a good dollar.

I would hate for there to be a contest (although in the end it might be a good thing) as to which race was responsible for the greatest contribution. (By good thing I mean the competition could increase the amount).

What has to be looked at IMO is the actual use of the money when it gets there. Also, I have seen a documentary where we send food but the African government refuses to let us distribute it bacause of the way it was grown. Something to do with chemicals I think.

If a rock concert dominated by White performers is the only way White America can �get the message� about the deplorable state of the African sub-continent, then we have come to pretty pass now haven�t we. The concert should not be solely about selling it tickets, it should be about shinning the light on Africa and it peoples, and what better way to do this then with African performers. If the motivation of White to see the concert is to be educated and help, then the performer really should not matter as long as they are good.

As far as Bush is concerned, and his �help� for Africa. Throwing money at the problem and attaching untenable condition to that money is not helping. What is needed is moral leadership which Bush has not shown; otherwise the U.S. would be taking the lead, either through the U.N., or unilaterally�to end the genocide in the Sudan. Bush has tossed a few dollars at the pleading masses, and points to that as �doing something� about Africa; PLEASE!

Jack,

I think market forces dictate that if you want to raise money with a rock concert you shouldn’t impose constraints that make people think they are attending a suburban bake sale. Geldof is really biting the hand that finds him, saying “I want your money or celebrity but not your ideas.” You can’t blame peope for saying, “No thanks!”

I don’t think the issue of artist representation is really a matter of race but culture. If you were going hold a music festival to raise money for people in Appalachia, it would make sense to have country or folk music. And you probably wouldn’t want to put the word ought that Democrats are sacred cows.

Having said thatm the business about the groups in Philly wanting a slice of the $ does sorta sound like a shakedown operation. But that is a separate issue from who is performing and what they are allowed to say.

V.E.M.

“African performers”??????

Are we going to fly them in, or are you referring to OUR black musicians? Just wondering because although they may be referred to as African Americans they are indeed American and just because they happen to be black does not mean they know anything about Africa!!!! Racist remarks stem from grouping individuals together in blanket statements. Although unintentional, remarks above (by others also not just you) are indeed racist also.

Traci,

Have you ever referred to an Irish-American as Irish? Does “Kiss me, I’m Irish” mean that I just stepped out of the glen?

It is impossible to communicate with “grouping individuals together in blanket statements.”

God save us from political correctness!!!

Pardon me, you can’t communicate withOUT grouping people together.

Woody~

The point I was making was, what difference does it make if the performers are black or white? Niether are African. And saying that black performers would make more sense is nonsense(and silly if the only conclusion is that they are both darker skinned)…….African citizens would not relate to either group of Americans so the point is mute!
As much as I hate PC also…it IS POSSIBLE to communicate w/out making blanket statements!

Leave it to the liberals to put a political/racial slant on something worthwhile like raising money for the impoverished in Africa.

I would hazard to say that if you interviewed the performaers (African American and Caucasian) few, if any would be able to detail the conditions that they are raising money to improve. Further, if you asked them where Africa is geographically you would be hard pressed to get an accurate answer.

I would like to see the concert just so the “uninformed white suburbanite crowd” could be educated as to the state of African needs.

African citizens would not relate to either group of Americans so the point is mute!

That, my friend, is a blanket statement.

Ummm, Traci, I meant what I said African performers from Africa, and yes fly them in if need be. perhaps between set, they could convey—in a way a White performer from America or Europe never could—just what is going on over in Africa from the first person perspective. Speaking of Africans and Africa in the abstract does little good in the end, it helps to have the people that actually live there be a part of the effort to find relieve.

And on a side note, I find it utterly disheartening that the U.N. an organization setup to combat the problems like those sweeping the Africa is sitting on it collective hands and doing nothing. Every member state should be ashamed. The body ids next to useless!

This is a very silly argument that is desperately missing the point!

This week on the news I watched a heartwarming tale of a boy that set up lemonade stands to help raise money for sick children (he also phoned friends and asked them to do the same in neighboring towns) anyways they raised a very substantial amount of money for these kids.

With the ideals of this here site though, he should have left well enough alone because A. he himself was not sick and B.this money should not go to kids of other ethnicities because he is not aware of their plight.

Money is money and I’m quite sure the one on the receiving end is not concerned w/ the politics of how it came about!(unless of course it was an illegal act).

VEM,

I am curious as to how African performers will be a better medium to convey the message. Their music will be less understood by the concert goers and, I’m afraid will be perceived only as a method to create sympathy which, the typical American does not respond well to.

If the idea is to use them between performances to present stories of the horrific conditions, many will perceive them as such…stories.

A picture is worth a thousand words, the African performers IMO would not paint that picture.

I�ve very disappointed that Bono and Geldof are giving legitimacy to this debt-relief package. They are correct to urge the G8 leaders to do more to help the poor. But they say nothing about ceasing to do harm. And the good that is being done is in danger of being outweighed by the harm.

If you take a closer look, you�ll see that the conditions this package contains are as much of a burden as the debt itself. To qualify for debt relief, developing countries must boost private-sector development and eliminate impediments to private investment, both domestic and foreign. Basically, enforced liberalization and privatization; two strategies used extensively by the World Bank and IMF in developing countries. For example, to qualify for World Bank funding, Uganda was forced to privatize most of its state-owned companies before it had any means of regulating their sale. A sell-off that should have raised $500m for the Ugandan exchequer instead raised $2m.

Basically, these conditionalities amount to intruding into every aspect of sovereign government by forcing nations to grant foreign corporations the same rights as domestic ones; to open their public services to the private sector and to invite foreign companies to bid to run them. Unless a country can first build up its industries behind protectionist barriers, it will be destroyed by free trade. Almost every nation which is rich today, including the US and the UK, used this strategy. As the World Bank�s own figures show, across the 20 years (1960-1980) before it and the IMF started introducing strict conditions on the countries which accepted their loans, median annual growth in developing countries was 2.5%. In the 18 years after (1980-1998), it was 0.0%.

Africa. It’s going to need all the handouts it can get.

On the other hand, it may be more productive to use African performers.

At least half the proceeds won’t be going into the so called “caring” but greedy performers pockets like it usually does at charity events!

Isn’t it funny how volunteering your time to average americans is just that, but celebrities want to come out ahead on the deal. Then to top it off every magazine around glorifies their so called charity work.

Steve—

Have you listened to a lot of World and African music? It very “understandable.” Music is after all universal.

Traci—

Your last point is a good one and worth exploring. I have not use for celebrities; they are by-and-large full of themselves.

Steve—

Might I subject you listen to Afro-pop Worldwide on NPR, if you do not already do so. I think you will find the music, well, very enriching, and dare I say, understandable. Check your local listings.

I applaud Geldof for his decision to try take politics out of a humanitarian effort. This should be about how to provide assistance, not about the socio-political make-up of the people involved. Spewing political opinions at a fund raiser for what should be an apolitical cause does no good and drives off potential donors. If the event becomes political because of the “free speech” of the performers, then the purpose has been subverted for the personal agendas of the entertainers. Purely selfish on their part. Let’s face it, they have plenty of venue’s available to speak their minds (and they frequently do). It’s not about them, it’s not about us, it’s about providing aid to an awful situation. This is not a public speaking event and Geldof has every right to dictate the terms for the performers. He’s not asking much. If they don’t like it, they can perform their own concerts saying what they want to say and donate accordingly. Leave your opinions at the door and genuinely help others. If they have a burning desire to purge their view of what they think is unjust, let them post to this blog!

Traci said:

“And saying that black performers would make more sense is nonsense(and silly if the only conclusion is that they are both darker skinned)…….African citizens would not relate to either group of Americans so the point is mute!!”

LOL!!! That’s really funny. I’m sorry but that is just so funny to me. I think you seriously underestimate the influence of american music (especially rap and RnB) worldwide. Yes, there’s MTV in Africa.

Besides, it’s not what appeals to African citizens that counts is it? It’s what’s going to sell the most tickets and raise the most money.

Sam,

It is funny how people always think that is the other side that is being “political”. It looks like he is just cracking down on anti-Bush statements. And he himself is praising Bush. It’s always the other guys who are dirtying themselves with politics…

Apparently, Geldof specifically warned people not to bring up the Iraq War, which is now opposed by a majority of the American public. So he really has a tight filter here. Which he is free to do, but that doesn’t seem very smart if you think about the people who are apt to help him.

Live 8: Don’t Give Peace a Chance

Nikita~

I was referring to thier cultures, not the music. Besides I don’t think many native Africans will be attending, do you?

VEM,

If you reread my post you will note that what I said was that the African music would be less understood.

I said this in the context that as a rule American concert goers are far more likely to understand and appreciate the hard rock, acid rock, rapper type entertainment that masquerades as music these days.

Traci

“I was referring to thier cultures, not the music.”

Me too. That’s why I threw in the MTV reference - plenty (much more than you would think) of African youth participate in and celebrate the MTV culture. Music influences culture (and vice versa) think rock ‘n’ roll or disco. So why would those that listen to the music that MTV puts out not be influenced by that culture too?

“Besides I don’t think many native Africans will be attending, do you?”

I agree that whatever method that raises the most money/does the most good is best. Native Africans may not attend but through the miracle of DVD and CDs (even pirated copies) they’re still going to watch and listen.

If their all watching MTV and buying CD’S and DVD’S why in the heck do they need funds?:)

I think you may be over-estimating a bit.

Besides I truly hope that MTV is not defining our culture…yikes! If so maybe that’s why everyone hates us!:)

Woody,

It’s the nature of all people. It’s always the “other side” that is being political. Left and right make the same allegations. I don’t see anything wrong with Geldof trying to focus on aid to Africa rather than provide a forum for the artist’s agenda or beliefs. I really have not heard or read that he is allowing anything Pro-Bush to be said (it is not likely that many of the entertainers would volunteer to say good things about Bush anyway). Have you heard or read anything that indicates that he is going to promote any political agenda other than aid to Africa?

Traci,

You don’t have to own a TV to watch one just like you don’t have to buy a CD to listen to the music and be influenced by it.

I find it really interesting that when the rest of the world think of africa, they think the starving children of ethiopia and AIDS epidemic in Sudan or perhaps the lions and tigers and elephants in the safaris of Kenya. Not that these are not worthy things to think of but there is much much more to it than that.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m no expert on afican life and culture but I do know that Africa is a huge place. What live aid and amnesty and the red cross publicize is certainly not the full story. I don’t know if you know many africans but the ones that I know can differentiate between pricey italian designer shoes and cheap “made in china” knock-offs from twenty paces, they not only have cell phones but covet the newer and more advanced ones that are yet to be released. The younger ones wear fubu, air jordans and phat farm and could probably out-rhyme Jay-Z! It doesn’t matter whether they can affort the genuine article or settle for fakes, what matters is that they want these things.

My point is american/western culture is highly pervasive and much more visible in Africa than you would think (especially in the youth). I’m not saying that most young Africans revel in the MTV life but you can bet that they’ve at least heard of it.

Nikita,Nikita~

Of coarse all of Africa is not the same!!Am I lost here or was this thread about the poverty areas???(This is who the concert would benefit)

Are these so called Africans that you are so tight w/ living here or in Africa?
I am very aware of how much American culture has spread throughout the globe, but I also know that just because you install soda/pop machines it does not mean that all will be able to afford it!
Anyways, you’ve went way off coarse from the original thread!

Traci, Traci, Traci :-)

You’re right, I’ve gotten off the original point of this thread. I couldn’t help but respond when I saw your comment about Africans not relating to american musicians. I literally laughed my ass off. I just couldn’t help myself - sorry.

One last point. About the soda machines? Coke is cheaper out there than here and tastes much better too!

;-)

Peace out.

Nikita,

It sounds like the Africans that you know could well afford to sponsor or take care of quite a few of the sick and impoverished.

You just took us from the seriously needy African population to the Upper East Side of the continent.

I think you may have missed the point of the article.

Steve,

“I think you may have missed the point of the article.”

I got the point of the article. I explained why I dragged it off topic and apologized for it.

I was not trying to make light of the plight of the poor and needy in Africa and I’m sorry if you got that impression from my comments.

I don’t think GW has done more for Africa. He’s promised alot but last I checked almost none of that has gone to Africa. Sort of like when he promised us in NYC aid for 9/11, and we still haven’t seen it. Just ask our Republican Mayor. He’s been lobbying diligently, to his credit, and has received bupkis.

US taxpayer money is paid by all Americans, so that money should be spent to help all Americans. Not certain groups and especially foreign countries. I’m weird like that.