Third Party & Independents: Archives

Wait, explain to me what you are so upset about… Besides the wasted time spent on the phone of course.

What am I upset about?

Read the last two articles I’ve written. This bill raises serious concerns, it wasn’t debated, and it was attached to a completely unrelated bill to ensure its passage.

Specifically, here, I’m upset that I was explicitly deceived by my Senator. I was told that he was fighting the bill and that he was strongly against it. Then today, the bill’s sponsor thanked him personally for helping to pass it.

AParker,

“Specifically, here, I’m upset that I was explicitly deceived by my Senator.”

Wow, a politician lied to you? No way!

However, on the bill itself, I fail to see anything explicitly negative in the appropriations you mentioned 2 articles ago.

Wow, a politician lied to you? No way!

Just because its not a surprise, doesn’t mean I’m not upset.

However, on the bill itself, I fail to see anything explicitly negative in the appropriations you mentioned 2 articles ago.

Were you alright when congress passed the PATRIOT ACT? Congress passed what they thought was a helpful bill, like this one, but it gave away far more power than they realized. Just like this one. Now they’re having to fight to rescind that power, and it’s much more difficult than if they’d taken the time to debate the bill in the first place.

Are you comfortable with increasing the numbers of uninsured motorists on our roads? By denying driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants (but still letting them work, live, etc) we deny them collision insurance, but do you think this will prevent them from driving?

Does it excite you that the federal government is slowly eroding the possiblity of anonymity and freedom? You may be convinced that this will help end terrorism; but I am not, and neither is security expert Bruce Schneier.

I mean, if you’re not worried by the notion of a federal ID card with the capacity to track your location and activities, that’s fine. Go buy a Big Mac, a pair of Nikes and enjoy your life.

Andrew, I empathize with your disappointment and sense of being betrayed. I guess I am a little more “fortunate” in living where my representatives almost never vote in a way that would represent me and mine.

Take heart however, in the fact that this is one of those pieces of legislation that can be overturned easily and by a couple different routes in the future: on the basis of unfunded mandate, on the basis of invasion of privacy in the courts, on the basis of simple ineffectiveness and failure to meet intended objectives. On the basis of a return of a few seats in Congress back to Democrats in 2006.

There are a number of ways this can be overturned, and I am confident it will be, before its potential abuses are realized. It is probably not a rubicon, but more like a passing phase. Like young adolescents trying out adult action and behavior, the new Republican majority in government is erring in so many ways as to very much upset the public that voted them in. Unlike adolescents, previous Democratic voters who voted Republican in the last two elections on security issues haven’t the same forgiving and unconditional love for politicians as they have for their own children. They won’t be voting Republican again in 2006 and 2008. Much of this adolescent Congressional behavior will be reversed over the next 8 years.

Andrew,

I’m completely with you here. Not only because these ID’s are yet another infringement upon our privacy, but because common sense tells us that huge amounts of documentation and racial profiling will never be a deterent to terrorism — and these things are going to cost us plenty to implement.
I also empathize with your anger toward your Senator — I myself have Sen. Feinstein to contend with, and despite the fact that I continually pester her staffers, that woman all too frequently lets me down. (Not Sen. Boxer though, she rocks!)

David,
I hope you’re right — that the RealID act can be easily eliminated in the future.
You wrote:
“the new Republican majority in government is erring in so many ways as to very much upset the public that voted them in.”

And yet, look how few people have been responding to Andrew’s post — folks should be a whole lot more upset by something like this, but because they think it’s for “safety and security”, they’re not reacting very negatively against these encroachments on American freedom.

“Unlike adolescents, previous Democratic voters who voted Republican in the last two elections on security issues haven’t the same forgiving and unconditional love for politicians as they have for their own children. They won’t be voting Republican again in 2006 and 2008. Much of this adolescent Congressional behavior will be reversed over the next 8 years.”

I do think you’re right about that. And hooray! I just read an article about a new poll indicating that sensible women have already jumped off the sinking Neocon ship! Though unfortunately it seems this is largely due to economic factors, not because of security issues or because they don’t approve of these infringements upon our privacy.
Somehow, even though they’ve actually done quite a crappy job with security issues over the threat of terrorism, people have been brainwashed into thinking the Neocon’s are good with that.

I also empathize with your anger toward your Senator — I myself have Sen. Feinstein to contend with, and despite the fact that I continually pester her staffers, that woman all too frequently lets me down. (Not Sen. Boxer though, she rocks!)

Unfortunately, ALL of our Senators let us down this time. Not a single one stood up for us against this maneuver.

The number of potential 2008 presidential candidates who could get my vote just dropped dramatically. I’m beginning to think that OSI is right — vote out all the incumbents!

Though the the RealID in H.R.1268 passed, it will later be rejected and eliminated, because it will be very easy to fake, proving it to be a dumb idea, and that will spell it’s demise.

The best ID system uses no card(s) at all. Today, we carry around or use:
(a) passports
(b) drivers licences
(c) social security cards
(d) birth certificates
(e) credit cards
(f) insurance cards
(g) ATM cards
(h) SAM’s card, Walmart cards
(i) Gasoline Discount cards
(j) club cards
(k) badges
(l) office key cards
(m) time-cards
(n) parking/gate key cards
(o) passwords
(p) etc. etc. etc.

… and none of those guarantee true identity.

If we’re going to have any IDentity system, it must be very difficult to fake.

Only biometrics could eliminate all of those cards, and we, ourselves could become our own virtual ID card.

My wallet would suddenly become 90% thinner,
and I wouldn’t have to remember so many paswords.

Rob:
“Unfortunately, ALL of our Senators let us down this time. Not a single one stood up for us against this maneuver.”

Yeah I know, but the real problem was that they slipped this ID thing in at the last minute — just take a look at all the other stuff that was in that bill.

I read OSI’s site over a year ago. I have been telling everyone I know vote out incumbents ever since. I’m glad to see OSI is posting here now.

I understand the reason for RealID as a means to stop or slow illegal immigrants from living in or entering this country. Does anyone actually think that is going to work?

RealID aside, the most frightening thing about all this is how it was attached to a appropriations bill that was destined to pass. (As a future president, I will push for single item bills in the legislature.)

OSI,

Biometric isn’t the ansewr to IDs, every current form of biometric identification has been proven to be trickable. (DNA identification has caused a false positive for a kid that was too young to have committed the murder that was being investigated, but it did eventually lead them to his uncle, fingerprint IDs are the easiest biometric to trick using $10 in equipment, retina scans have been tricked by making your eyes water first) Another problem with biometric ID is that if your id is stolen you don’t really have the choice of replacing your id.

The preferred form of identification should have at least 2 of the 3 following:
something you have (Id card, credit card)
something you know (pin number, SS number, passphrase, password)
biometric (retina, finger print, DNA)

Example: ATM requires you have 2 of those 3; Your debit card, and your pin number

If all it required was the card, it would be too easy to steal. If all it required was a pin number, then a bit of social engineering or observation as they enter the pin would be all that is needed. But with both, it is still possible to fake, just much more difficult. If it also required a fingerprint, then they would also have to get a copy of your fingerprint somehow and make a fake. (grabbing a glass they drank out of, some specific type of glue to make a mold, then some gelatin to make the fingerprint and some more glue to put it on your finger)

Sure it can work.
We must simply use more than one metric.
It must be a combination of two or more of the following:
(1) iris-scan (quick and unique)
(2) retina-scan
(3) finger-print scan
(4) toe-prints scan
(5) hand prints scan
(6) height
(7) photos
(8) DNA (when it becomes quick & affordable)

Also, nothing is 100% fool proof.
But, something is needed, and whatever
it is, it must be reliable and very
difficult to fake.

We also need to get rid of the national ID card and number we already have. The social security system will work just as well without having everyone in the country numbered. They should at least make it illegal to use the number for purposes other than social security.

SirisC,
Yes…that’s a good idea.
The password too.
A combination of things.

The iris is the most individually distinctive feature of the human body - statistically (maybe, only at this point in time only) more accurate than DNA. No two irises are alike, not among twins even - not even the left and right iris of one individual is the same. The iris is stable over life from age one until death. Unlike DNA iris recognition works by performing exhaustive searches to identify individuals in real time - not minutes, hours or even days.
________________
Still, a combination of metrics and passwords would be damn hard (not impossible) to fake.

“I mean, if you’re not worried by the notion of a federal ID card with the capacity to track your location and activities, that’s fine. Go buy a Big Mac, a pair of Nikes and enjoy your life.”

You aren’t under the misguided belief that we are not being tracked already, are you?
Every time we use a form of payment - besides cash - (and don’t scan your discount card) - we are being tracked for one reason or another.
Mostly to find out where, what for, and how much money we spend.
Then there are the security cameras in just about every place we go…. they may not be tracking an individual at any given moment but the tapes will be checked if something bad happens to someone.

If we want to be a ‘run-away bride’ we need to make sure we have plenty of cash on us,a fake ID, a wig ….
Remember the SS Card? It was never supposed to be used as a form of identification.
…and your worried about a ‘REAL ID’?

Andrew Parker,

“I am personally upset because I spent a lot of time on the phone last night, only to have representatives for my senators assure me that they were fighting against the passage of this bill. Then, I read today that Sensenbrenner thanked one of my Senators by name for his help in passing this bill. I was duped.”

If your Senator lied to you personally, I don’t blame you for being upset, But did he/she really lie to you?
Its very common for a supporter of a bill to personally thank someone who was fighting AGAINST the bill for changing their vote, and is often code for…”I may help you in the future”.

However, With the bill passing with 100% vote, he/she could have voted no if they really wanted that on their record.

Having this tied to military spending was a huge gift to Dem.’s running in 2006, only a “no” vote could effectively be used against someone politically.

If something happens that MIGHT have been prevented by the “I.D.” and you voted no, you get stuck with that, if someone is upset about your yes vote..”I didn’t like that, but had to support the troups”..little there can be held against you.

I personally had no problem with the bill, however, I take no glee in the fact that you fought very hard against it and lost.

I hope that you can find some comfort in the fact that “politically”, IMHO, Senator Reid and/or DNC leadership did what would be best for their party in future elections.

Respectfully, Beagle

dawn-

“You aren’t under the misguided belief that we are not being tracked already, are you?”

Of course not. I use cash almost exclusively, and do not shop in stores that require a scan card to receive ‘sales’ (read - regular price anywhere else). I do what I can to avoid revealing personal information. And yes, I am worried about Real ID, exactly because SS#s were not intended to be what they are now. How much more will these federally approved IDs be stretched beyond their original (and already dubious) intention?