Third Party & Independents: Archives

Answer:

Creates a positive image for the substantial Catholic population in America.

Andrew-

France flew their flag at half-mast as well, and you should have heard the uproar from the secularists(I was over there last week). It could have been because the whole half-mast tradition is British though, and over there it is the French Channel and not the English.

Me thinks thou protest too much; but at least not as much as the French. I doubt the President took any of your concerns to heart when he ordered the flags lowered.

Catholics have more votes than Athiest.

Craig

George-

I’m not protesting, I just can’t understand why he did it, and also why the similarly minded secularists here haven’t caused a stir.

Zeek-

Wouldn’t you think there’d be just as much of a backlash? But I guess there hasn’t been much of one, and I don’t understand why, considering all the other things people get worked up about.

I guess I dont see the big deal. He affected a whole lot of people throughout the world, even if it was as a religious figure.

He is credited with helping do some work in bringing down the Soviets, isn’t that in American interests enough?

So, does everyone agree that this is just Bush’s way of throwing a bone to the Catholics in America? Why wouldn’t that then cause problems of its own? The president pacifying a religious group via federal mandate?

Let me clarify that I said I was glad I didn’t have a flag only to mean that I was glad not to have to decide whether to fly my flag at half-staff or not. Also, I don’t think this is a huge deal either, but I’ve been thinking about it for a week, and I wanted opinions.

We recognize the pope as a world leader. We recognize his sovereignty over the Vatican and even have an ambassador to there. It’s not because he’s the leader of the Catholic church, it’s because he’s a head of state who is friendly to us. It’s out of respect, we’d do the same if it were Queen Elizabeth II.

wrt the fact that he spoke out against the war in Iraq, our president has conveniently forgotten about that, only remembering that JP II promoted a culture of life. President Bush also forgets that in his culture of life outlook the pope was anti-capital punishment, something W is empirically not.

AParker:

“Wouldn’t you think there’d be just as much of a backlash? But I guess there hasn’t been much of one.”

You’re right, there hasn’t been much backlash, so why the heck should Bush be worried about it?

It does seem… odd. I’m unaware of any instance in which the US flag was flown at half-mast for a foreign dignitaty. Anyone remember a case where that happened?

phx8

“I’m unaware of any instance in which the US flag was flown at half-mast for a foreign dignitaty. Anyone remember a case where that happened?”

Yeah, remember when John Paul the… wait never mind.

No backlash because it would have probably backfired. Meaning - who actually looks good bashing a sign of respect for the Pope?? and exactly what issue would it help promote?

I think there’s little political capital gained or lossed on the matter. Given the stature of John Paul II in the lives of Americans, and his status as a influential world leader, people will think nothing of it. If the Dalai Lama dies give him the same respect.

I don’t mean to disrespect the man, but I just found the matter curious. phx8 hit my point, I can’t think of any foreign dignitary receiving the same respect for even a day, much less an entire week…

The Pope did kiss the Qur’an so I take it that he is a unilateral universalist. He fits in just fine with the secular world.
I will get pissed off though if Pat Robertson or Jerry Fadwell dies and Bush orders the flag half down.

Ya know, I’ve been irked for days about this half mast thing. I didn’t think anyone else had noticed it being done. If it were lowered for just one day and was done regularly for all other heads of state or heads of all religious orgs. I would have no problem with it. I think people are to easy to shrug things like this off without question. Yes, he was the leader for the nations Catholics, but what did he do for our country for us to lower our flag for him? Personally, I think we should lower the flag one day for every soldier killed in Iraq. If we start now and nobody else gets killed, it will be down for a little over four years.

Andrew, don’t forget Bush going over there and getting the Pope to badmouth Catholics who oppose passing laws that abolish abortion. [ahem!]kerry. Bush gave JP the Medal of Freedom for that. I don’t see why he wouldn’t do the flag salute too.

All-

not the last time, but certainly one time

Simply because the American memory is short, doesn’t mean things did not happen.

Flag Code says “…By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law… ” Like it or not JP II was a foreign dignitary.

As far as bad mouthing Kerry, that was the Dems fault. The official position was that you could not vote for a pro-choice candidate simply because he was pro-choice. You could vote for him for other reasons. The Dems allowed the Rove Machine to dominate and spin this one to the Republican advantage to no end.

Yes, JP was a religious leader, and yes, he was a foreign dignitary. But honestly, I think the half-mast thing was done primarily because most Americans see him as a good man who will be missed.

I don’t see this as a violation of Separation of Church & State at all. He’s not being honored because of his religion. He’s being honored because of the good that he did with the office he was given. I didn’t always agree with his position, but I can’t dispute his legacy.

It’s not bad politically for the US since most world public opinion “polls” are running negatively in the aftermath of two major wars for oil.

I think it was sign of respect for the man and not his office that the flag was flown at half-mast. Despite his rather conservative cast, I have respect for Pope John Paul, because he was a man of conviction and moral character. It is a shame that I can not say the same for most our so-called leaders.