Third Party & Independents: Archives

Misha,

From the title, I was hoping that you were going to be complaining about the shameful grandstanding and interference of Congress in the Terri Schiavo case. I guess that branch has enough energy to grandstand on two issues in a single week. Imagine if they harnessed all that energy into their jobs.

Oh well.

Well, I thought David covered the shameful nature of Congress’ overeaching into Florida law very well. On this case, baseball is something that is close to my heart, and one thing that makes me even sicker than this steroid scandal is how Congressmen are using this stain on the greatest game to grandstand.

I appreciate your perspective but disagree wholeheartedly.

First, can we agree whether or not steroids in baseball is a problem? If we can’t then the rest of the debate is pointless. I say it is a problem because our kids look up to ball players. If it were an adults only sport, then hey, let ‘em play however they want.

From there I would agree that Major League Baseball should take care of itself, but it hasn’t. And baseball isn’t just a game. It’s an industry. They sell a product for money. They even have a union as you pointed out. Baseball is big business. And Congress delves into the affairs of industries all the time. The precedent and authority clearly exist.

Finally, you may be surprised at how much good this publicity will do. Baseball hasn’t been able to fight the players union on this one. Often times unions and businesses get in bull headed stand-offs because they don’t trust one another. A third party bringing reality to the situation may help align the previously opposing parties with one another. Major league basebell and the unions may come together on testing and penalties because of the outside push. From a negotiation standpoint, the good cop, bad cop routine between Congress and Selig may improve Selig’s effectiveness with the union.

I’d love to take my son to watch major league games when he’s old enough. I hope the game is a bit cleaner by then. It’s time for someone to step up and make it a respectable game once again. If the players won’t do it and the commissioner can’t do it, then who’s left but Congress?

Grandstanding or not, we’re all talking about it. Had Congress not made a deal out of it, Canseco’s book would have been dust in the wind within months and nothing would have changed. If still nothing changes then I doubt it ever will….and yes Congress was just grandstanding. But I think things will change with this pressure.

The 2006 Elections are coming up. This is the best way for Congress to show its Moral Fiber without aliening their Campaign Contributers. Heaven forbid they investigate the scams run by HMOs.

Aldous,

Are the 2006 elections coming up? Any idea what year that is going to happen?

I agree that this is not the business for Congress.

Steroids are bad now, but I really hope that we can develop steroids without negative side effects. Think how great that would be for a sixty year old man to add muscle as he did when he was twenty. These developments may soon be on the way. Let’s not stigmatize steroids too much, because we may soon want to use them.

Sports figures are not good role models whether or not they take steroids. The biography of many professional basketball players starts with their convictions and indictments. The biggest stars are often the worst because nobody wants to upset the golden goose. The influence of professional sports on youth is on balance negative. A plague on all their houses – steroids or not.

Grandstanding is what they do. Like we could ever stop them from taking on any issue they so choose.
Congress + Baseball = Lots of airtime for all their big heads.

Couldn’t they just hire a mediator? Congress needs one too - I will do it.

As a baseball fan, I was happy to see Congress involved. It was personally a relief to learn that Sammy Sosa denied using steroids under oath.

As for whether it is appropriate for Congress to look at it, baseball is a big, interstate business, right? I agree with Lawnboy that the Terri Schiavo case is a better example of overreach, and they are really setting a lousy precedent of trying to micro-manage people’s end of life decisions.

One thing people need to look at is the kids competing in sports in school.

They know that pro’s are pumping up their abilitys by taking those drugs, they want to get the scholarships to the best schools, and get into the pro’s with the big money and fame.

Big difference for them is they don’t have a team of doctors and trainers helping them shoot-up in amounts that wont kill them, they will take whatever black-market crap they can get to try to get into “the bigs”,and it may harm them for life.

This isn’t like other drugs, those HS kids in sports don’t look a a heroin junkie and say:..boy if I use that stuff I could make the bigtime and get the 6 figure income, the expencive sports car, and the hot girls !

Think about that before you say those hearings were senseless grandstanding.

Beagle,
Uh how did the hearings show kids how not to use steroids? Besides how many kids were out of school when the hearing was aired? Give me a break, what other independent organization would have the House do this. If steriod use was an epidemic at IBM would the House get retired execs and current execs to tell of how it is. No, they would handle it in house and would’t need interference. We have all sorts of real problems in america and we have to worry whether or not millionaires are doing drugs. Overhalf of the united states have taken illegal drugs at one time or another. Poor people do crack all day long, there are more homeless drug addicts than there are million dollar steroid junkies. Where’s the hearing to find out if those rumors are true. How about we address real issues and let the people who want to jeperdize their lives do it. We live in America and should be free enough to kill ourselves as quickly or as slowly as we desire. Who cares? You cannot control other people without restricting yourself. What if instead of making more restrictions we lift some and give some freedom back to the supposed free nation we live in. Are these really the issues we should fill our days with? Yes, but not in the sense in which they are presented. All of these stupid issues that arise should make us watch less and care less but; for some reason people continue to tune in and care. Why?

Chad,

If Pro-sports continue to overlook the drug problem, the only kids that will make it into pro sports will be ones useing steiroids.

Stop and think about it.

Beagle,
Did you watch the hearing, did you hear the percentage of players that have been caught using drugs. Less than 5 percent. Drug problem, doesn’t really sound like it. Maybe back in the 80’s when little was known about steroids it was more prevelent. But, now that all these suppliments are out there pro atheletes can use a legal substance and make gains that ten years ago could only be achieved via steroids. We have the technology now that allowed us to develope supplements that are not steroids until the body digests them and breaks them down. That’s just one type of supplement among the thousands out there. If you think that one man’s battle with steroid use 15 years ago somehow constitutes an epidemic you may need to look up the meaning of the words. I get what your saying though you just want it to be fair. But, people are going to cheat and within the company there should be a new institution to protect against cheating.

This should not be in the news. We have far too many important things that dirctly effect us to worry about this, attention starved retired player’s accusations and rantings. If your going to use steroids your going to use them. It’s at your own risk just like any other illegal activity.

Chad,

I think you miss my point.

I care about the kids trying to get into the PRO’S, not the ones there now.

If the pro’s take drugs that make them grow extra arms/legs, I could care less.

If kids trying to get into pro sports know that the only way to get there and compete is by taking these drugs, yes, I care about that.

Chad said: “Did you watch the hearing, did you hear the percentage of players that have been caught using drugs. Less than 5 percent.

Did you hear the percentage of teens who use drugs? Less than 8%. Guess it just isn’t a problem. Also, I am glad you used the operative term here from the Hearings - CAUGHT! Which does not include those who have not been caught.

“Drug problem, doesn’t really sound like it.”

Marijuana doesn’t sound like a real drug problem to me either, but, then you and I seem to be in the minority. :-)

David,

My only point was that kids may see taking those kinds of drugs as the only way to advance into PRO sports.

If I’m wrong on that, please explain why?

I respect your views.

Beagle. No, I can’t disagree with your argument because of the high visibility of players AND the high visibility of their steroid use. Your logic, (if steroids are the only way youngsters can hope to compete with steroid using stars) is impeccable, if the assumption is true that steroids improve perfomance in the game, and that seems to be a general concensus.

I guess the same logic applied to the Marijuana issue back in the 70’s and 80’s due to the high visibility of movie stars and Cheech & Chong making MJ use out to be perfectly cool and acceptable.

On balance however, I still have to stand against the Congress making laws that restrict or limit what a person reaching the age of consent is allowed to consume and not consume for their own benefit regardless of what that benefit is. On issues like this, I have a Libertarian bent.

Individual freedom is, I believe, compromised by laws restricting what one is allowed to do to themselves. Making suicide illegal is just plain wrong. We do not have a choice about being born into this world, but, adults should certainly have the choice as to when and how they exit it provided their exit does not directly infringe upon other’s choices for themselves.

This libertarian argument is somewhat compromised by mass media today, in that mass media mirrors what people do in real life, and there are no meaningful and effective controls for preventing such real life from being viewed by young children who are not yet able to critically analyze what others do, for themselves. It is made the worse by the fact that such mirroring is part and parcel of a profit making ‘brainwashing’ system of advertising which spends billions on psychological research on how to influence sales via programming. This is no less true for Baseball than it is for cable, satellite, or airwave TV.

Your point is valid. Mine is valid. In a free society there is no ideal solution to dilemma’s like these. There is hope however, always, in providing top notch education which imparts to our students critical analysis as soon as possible and to the greatest extent possible. A hope we are not supporting very well in this society.

Thank you for your kind remarks.

David,

I understand your point exactly.

I pass no judgement on an adult “rollin up a fatty” and just chillin, but I don’t think that is what may drive HS kids to take steriods to try to compete, and advance into pro sports.

Even HS kids may “huff a dube” now and then, I’ll not even pass judgement on that, but I don’t think that any of them believe that it will help them get into pro sports.

Everyone deserves the freedom to determine what is best for them and balance what peril may come of risky behavior. If an athlete wants to take performance enhancing substances to gain a transient advantage, let them. Regardless of regulation, there will always who choose “cheat” and those who don’t. The temporary advantage may pay off in the short term and may not harm them in the long term, but we all know that is not typical.

Parents should not rely on the media and certainly not Congress to be “teachers” for their children. Parents should be the primary role models in their childrens’ lives and teach the consequences of dangerous behavior. It’s the parents’ responsibility, regardless of

For Congress to single out Major League Baseball is arbitrary and baseless. Why doesn’t Congress attack the music industry and haul in Ozzy Osbourne, Courtney Love, and Bob Dylan? The music industry is much worse with its reputation for using *illegal* drugs. Steroids are technically legal with a prescription; they also happen to enhance athletic performance. The same argument could be applied to musicians. Who’d deny that some of the best music was created “under the influence.” Same with baseball….some of its best moments were (perhaps) created under the influence.

The drug “war” is such a futile waste of resources. The fixation on performance enhancing substances is just another example of how prohibition is an impossible infringement of personal freedom.

JP said: “The drug “war” is such a futile waste of resources. The fixation on performance enhancing substances is just another example of how prohibition is an impossible infringement of personal freedom.”

OK, you got me agreeing with you on this, but, hey DUDE, lay off Bob Dylan… he’s been my man for 40 years and for sanity reasons I still listen to him a couple times a week. Long live, Bob Dylan.

Beagle,
I got it, all five times. It’s just that baseball really isn’t the sport with the monsters running around in the spotlight. Football is the poster child for steroid use and youth steroid use. Look at the size of the players today compared to 15-20 years ago. Baseball not really, football dramatic. The kids, the kids, I know but; we are going to have to blame the authority figures pushing endless amounts of expectations onto the children.

It took me like a 15 mins of hard concentration to try to remember Bob Dylan’s name. I could totally picture him and recite about 10 of his songs before I came up with it. I guess we can pinpoint which part of the brain these things effect eh?

OK, you got me agreeing with you on this, but, hey DUDE, lay off Bob Dylan…

Sorry, Dylan’s goin down. The repugs always gotta be at war on something (e.g. War on Drugs, War on Terror, War on Abortion, War on Fags, War on Indencency, etc.) Eventually, they’ll run outta ideas, and when they do, Dylan’s goin down!

War on Blowin in the wind, coming soon to a repug administration near you!

JP, funny, but actually memories are duplicitously stored in a couple different areas. Moderation, my friend, moderation.

Taylor, I understand, but, I hear he is still big in Canada and Europe so all hope is not lost.

Misha is right though, Congress is redefining its powers and rules. And our care or concern on this matter had better be not be “blowin in the wind”, or we will find ourselves the servants of Congress instead of the otherway around.