Third Party & Independents Archives

The U.S. cannot support third parties because of the basic way the system is set up. In our first past the post system, the winner takes all. Lose an election by 1% and you get absolutely nothing. (The reason multiple parties thrive in other countries is that they have variations of proportional representation that reward near misses.) In the U.S. the largest united block wins. In order to compete with others have to join it or form their own large block. If a competing block gets strong enough, it just becomes the other big party and one of the previous big ones heads for obscurity.

This hasn’t actually happened since 1860. It almost happened in 1912, but didn’t, and that is a good example of why it doesn’t happen often. In that year, the Republicans enjoyed a huge majority, but their support was divided between Taft and Roosevelt, leaving Wilson to win with a plurality.

The big parties have an incentive to co-op any popular ideas of third parties and more or less take them over. The Progressives like Robert Lafollette had roots in the Republican Party, but it was the Democrats that co-oped most of their agenda and the Republicans stole the thunder of the Reform Party.

One factor that third party advocates usually neglect is the desire for personal power. If you are an ambitious and able person who wants to get a position in government, you are best served to choose sides and be a Democrat or a Republican. I am not referring only to elected positions. A person who wished to serve even as a minor politically appointed bureaucrat would have no chance if he declared himself for a third party. Republican administrations sometimes appoint Democrats (and the reverse) as kind of a courtesy or quid pro quo. Nobody ever gets a job by being a third party adherent. This is much more important than it seems. Parties need foot soldiers (volunteers). The people who recruit and manage (marshal) these volunteers want some kind of reward that a third party can’t offer. A third party “marshal” will forever pound the pavement and never see the inside of a government office except as a visitor. That means that the most talented managers of volunteers are bled away from third parties.

So, third parties are great places to develop ideas that the big parties will sometimes adopt. The chances of electing a large number of third party candidates is almost zero and if it comes to pass that happens, it means that one of the major parties is probably on the way out. How depressing? Third parties are the good idea whose time will never come.

Yes! United: A Chance. Divided: No Chance.

If all voters want real influence, they need:

(1) to embrace a core issue
that will capture the attention of the main
party voters.
(2) a hands-down, no-brainer,
winner message that will contagiously
spread that message.

_______________
Typically, third parties are nearly non-existent.
The best they can hope for is to steal a few
votes away from one of the main party candidates.

Main party voters for the most part are also fed up.

Main party voters are searching for something else also.

What the voters need is a core idea that will unite them.

The message must remain simple, and it is.
So let us get right to the point:

(1) PROBLEM. Identify the problem to the voters:
The U.S. government is broken.
The problem is human weakness rooted
in laziness and greed.

(2) SOLUTION: Transparency and Accountability:
Government must have transparency and close monitoring. To ignore government is to invite corruption and abuses.

(3) EDUCATION: Educate the
voters, and demonstrate that the voters, if
united, have the power (as they should) to
control the outcome of any election.

(4) STRATEGY: The strategy
is simple. Vote irresponsible incumbents out
of office. Repeatedly, every election.

and “When in DOUBT, vote them OUT !”

Thus, repeatedly, term after term, vote
incumbents out of office.

(5) BENEFITS:
Career politicians (the
master-cheater-parasites) will be quickly
eliminated.

In this new era, politicians will have an
incentive to vote responsibly, and will have
the burden to prove to voters that they should
remain in office.

Voters should scrutinize all the politicians
votes and actions and rhetoric. If it is not in
the Voters’ best interest, VOTE THEM OUT !

and “When in DOUBT, vote them OUT !”

Eventually, politicians will get the message.

Voters will realize that they are truly a
“Government
of the PEOPLE,
by the PEOPLE,
for the PEOPLE”.

The Voters will realize that THEY really are
ultimately responsible.

See: NinePointPlanToFixUSA

Jack, the end of this next 4 years will very possibly demonstrate to a very large number of Americans that the Republocrats are incapable of addressing American citizen’s needs in a number of areas, not the least of which is fiscal policy.

That is the opening for change that could give the Super Organization of third parties a toe hold in the electorate to grow and force responsible change.
Lack of vision, hope, and will always results in nay saying. Without vision, hope, will and change, the world would still be flat and adventurers would still avoid the precipices at the ends of it.

Daniel, those things will not happen without a concerted effort by an organization that works to bring those goals about. The Republocrat’s do not have this agenda nor will they unless forced to it.

Hence the need for the 3rd party super organization or some other organization with the infrastructure, purpose, and will to make those things happen.

Don’t we actually have, within the two major parties, more than two de-facto parties?

People often hold up European parliaments as examples of third parties that form shifting coalitions in order to form majorities, but I’d say that our two major parties do something very similar outside of government BEFORE they move into government.

The same compromises take place—but in the spirit of American self-reliance, the voters do things themselves and don’t depend on their elected officials to sort things out.

That’s why largely culturally conservative and religious but economically liberal African Americans are able to coexist in the same party with gay activists and atheists. And why culturally conservative evangelist Christians can share a party with Jews who reject the Christian religion.

Look at the enormous diversity within the major parties. A Massachussets or California Republican has little in common with a Republican from Georgia or Texas. By the same token, a Democrat from a Southern state is just not the same creature as a Democrat from the Northeast. One need only look at William Weld (R) of MA, who would be considered a fruity liberal if he lived anywhere else, or Zell Miller (D).

Both major parties are actually pretty big tents with the ability to attract a wide diversity of individuals.

Third-party voters often remind me of indy-rock fans. Permanently being on the outside is part of the appeal and part of the basis for credibility.
(I’m an indy-rock fan myself, but a firm Republican).

A third party politico can always live in the realm of ideologically pure abstraction—something unlikely to be sullied by the actual burden of governing.

I understand and to some degree even respect this option—the choice to always live in the safe realm of ideas and never in the realm of action.

But this choice has severe disadvantages too, the chief being that whatever personal gratification it gives will never be equaled by results in the actual world where policy is made and played out in practice.

Jack already pointed out that our electoral system is severely skewed against third parties. If you ask me, the first thing any third party organization that gets the slightest toehold should push for is a fairer, European-style combination of IRV (for President) and a proportional system for Congress. With those systems in place, third parties would immediately have much stronger political clout, mostly because they would no longer be spoilers.

Martin,

Yes, both parties are “pretty big tents”, but they still leave a lot of people out in the rain.

The majority of Americans are moderates, but the two-party system favors the extremes. In order to get the COUNTRY’s support, you first have to get your PARTY’s support, and neither party is willing to embrace someone who is close to “crossing the line” between them. They choose candidates based upon their ever-shrinking core groups, then try to frighten the growing group of moderate voters away from the other side.

Just once, I’d like to have a viable presidential candidate who cares more about his country than he does about his party. That’s why I support 3rd parties.

And, for the record, if you don’t believe that third parties ever bear the “actual burden of governing”, I suggest you read about a man named Abraham Lincoln (a 3rd-party presidential candidate who actually got elected!).

David R. Remer wrote: (see ____responses____ below):

Daniel, those things will not happen without a concerted effort by an organization that works to bring those goals about. The Republocrat’s _____And the Dumicrats too. It’s ALL of government. Not just Republicans or Democrats. The problem is government is broken. Why? There’s no accountability. How do Voters fix that? Start voting out ALL incumbents at every election(no exceptions), until things improve drastically. _____ do not have this agenda nor will they unless forced to it.
_____Yes, force is needed. A 3rd party might have a chance if they can ever resonate with the voters. But, why are 3rd parties not even remotely close to having sufficient support? Perhaps their message is too complicated and it still doesn’t force all politicians to pay attention to Voters. What is needed is a simple message that ALL frustrated Voters can grasp: the power of their own “vote”. That is, just vote out ALL incumbents. Repeatedly vote out ALL incumbents; term after term. Then we don’t need term-limits. The SOLUTION must be simple and directed at ALL politicians. It must be something that the ordinary middle-class American (the majority) can easily grasp and easily execute. Every election, vote out the incumbents, and 3rd parties could try to get some alternative names on the ballots. Voters could then vote for anyone they like, EXCEPT an incumbent and preferably, not another main party bureaucrat. This is the needed FORCE; the simple SOLUTION the voters can wield to get the attention of the corrupt politicians.______

Hence the need for the 3rd party super organization or some other organization with the infrastructure, purpose, and will to make those things happen.
______Yes, that would help, but the 3rd party needs something drastically different, because they currently have only 1% or 2% of all votes. 3rd parties are a dime-a-dozen. Ross Perot was the only potential third party candidate (in recent history) to come close to resonating with Voters. How?
MESSAGE: government is broken (this resonated with frustrated Voters); both parties are greedy and corrupt;
SOLUTION: This is Ross Perot he failed (among other things).
______

______There have been countless 3rd party organizations, but they all fall way short of cultivating sufficient support. They have been unable to wrestle power away from the main parties and the incumbent politicians. And it seems too difficult to determine who the master-cheater-parasites are. Therefore, a simple SOLUTION is required. That simple SOLUTION is to repeatedly vote out incumbents, term after term, until things get better and they implement the following 9 steps.______

NinePointPlanToFixUSA

______
Why vote out ALL incumbents, with no exceptions? Because almost ALL of the politicians are corrupt and greedy anyway. And, any other approach is too complicated. Just vote out ALL incumbents, until things start improving. There’s too much plunder (i.e. pork barrel spending). Tax payers are being abused. Government has already stolen $8 trillion U.S. dollars from Social Security and Medicare. It should be clear that we can never trust government ot watch our savings. And while these politicians are arrogantly plundering the tax payers, they are also creating multi-million dollar retirement benefits for only a few years in government.

And, occasionally, Voters may need repeat the process to force politicians to make MORE changes.
And, again, Voters will urge politicians to make those changes.
And, again, if the politicians fail to do so, Voters will begin to vote out ALL politicians (no exceptions), until politicians implement the basic changes.
The Voters have one powerful asset still. It’s their own vote. But, politicians, as always, find ways to confuse voters, obscure the facts, cloud the issues, play petty partisan games, corrupt the government, and abuse the tax payers.

SUMMARY:
(1) MESSAGE: Government is broken; too many politicians are corrupt and greedy and abusing the tax payers;
(2) SOLUTION: Use the power of your vote; vote out ALL incumbents every election (no exceptions), repeatedly, until things drastically improve. Voters should not get too bogged down in the agenda, because the politicians are supposed to know already; currently politicians are too often too greedy and corrupt to do the right thing, and simply need a convincing incentive to do the right thing. Voters can give them that incentive. If politicians want to remain in office, they’d better stop the pork-barrel-spending, stop stealing from tax payers, stop abusing tax payers, stop pandering, stop playing favorites to special interests, end the multi-million dollar retirement benefits for retired politicians, and start being more responsible,
_____

David,
Until thid parties lower themselves to being elected to State Houses, Governors, Congressmen, etc. They will never gain the name recognition to be elected in a national election. We need to set our sights a little lower at first. Recognition will come later.

“Demorubs” I like that name better than Republocrats.

No system works perfectly. The Euro systems look much better at a distance than they do close up.

It seems to me that the people have a greater say in how their society is governed in the U.S. than in most of Europe. In most of Europe, government bureaucracies rule to a much greater extent. In fact, one of the criticisms some knowledgeable Europeans have about the U.S is that it is too responsive to the will of the people. That is why we can’t pass the measures necessary to meet the Kyoto protocols or effectively regulate land use, they say.

Beyond that, in order to have proportional representation, you have to greatly strengthen the role of political parties at the expense of individuals, since it is the party, not the candidate that wins the seat.

I think Martin made a good point re the pre-election negotiations. The U.S. system of governance has evolved with the U.S. society and responds fairly well to the pluralistic nature of America. Any system should be under constant revision and improvement, but wouldn’t trade ours for any other that I have seen.

David,
Until thid parties lower themselves to being elected to State Houses, Governors, Congressmen, etc. They will never gain the name recognition to be elected in a national election. We need to set our sights a little lower at first. Recognition will come later.

David, you want a discussion about a theoretical uniting of third parties - meanwhile, two third party leaders have already joined forces. Green Party candidate Cobb and Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik have filed jointly for a recount in Ohio, and are demanding that Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, (a Republican who chaired the Ohio Bush campaign) recuse himself from the recount process.

Yet no article is going to be written about this fact in the Independent and Third Party column of WatchBlog it seems…
(Don’t get mad! I know I’ve already nagged you about this, I’m merely making the comment so that anyone who doesn’t realize what is going on will know.)

Rocky
“Until thid parties lower themselves to being elected to State Houses, Governors, Congressmen, etc. They will never gain the name recognition to be elected in a national election. We need to set our sights a little lower at first. Recognition will come later.”

I agree completely.
Also, what might be an interesting idea for the future would be for a liberal third party candidate to be chosen as the vice-presidential pick for a Democrat. With the Democratic party currently in crisis this might become a real possibility?
Just a thought.

Adrienne:

Unless Badnarik and Cobb are planning on uniting in a more fruitful and complete manner, they won’t be doing what David has suggested. That they jointly filed a legal brief doesn’t really mean much of anything, as far as their parties and platforms go.

You say that no third party could garner enough support to compete in a presidential election….and you very well may be right. I’d suggest that currently, the only person I see capable of jumping into that arena would be John McCain and I don’t see him doing it. But if he did, he might just have a shot at bringing 3rd parties back into the mix.

I feel bad about being cynical, I really do. But I can’t help it. I have found that there is often an inverse relationship between how much polite recognition something gets and what will really happen. This is what happens with third parties. There is no way third parties are ever going to cooperate because they don’t agree on anything except that there should be more third party candidates. They usually have less in common with each other than any of them do with Republicans or Democrats. And the more they get to know about each other, the less they will find in common.

As for taking a third party person as a vice presidential, why? To lock up that all-important Nader vote? Al Sharpton could get more votes.

Third parties can occasionally squeeze in, but they have no staying power. As I wrote above, the last successful third party was the Republicans in 1860. They didn’t stay a third party; they became one of the two parties. (And by the way, this process provoked a civil war). More typical is the case of Jesse “the Body” Ventura. He managed a plurality in a three-man race, but when he left office, there was no trace of his party. Jesse was the darling of the talk shows, but his works were dust in the wind.

Parties have organizations and they need to occasionally win elections to feed those organizations. Third parties usually lack organization and are made up of independent minded people who don’t like to toe the party line. Their passion doesn’t fit in well with the need to compromise or just shut up and do the needful. It is like herding cats to get anything done. Everybody stands on principle, but as another cynic, Otto Von Bismarck said, when a man says he is for something in principle, it means he doesn’t intend to do anything practical about it.

“As for taking a third party person as a vice presidential, why?”

Because many people have abandoned the Democratic party because they aren’t as liberal as they once were and they’re losing their base to liberal third parties like the Green’s and Reform Party as a direct result.
I am one of those people who now always votes with the Green’s on the state and local level in the hope that the Democrat’s will come to their senses and return to representing what they’ve always been historically.
And the Republican’s are losing some of their people to the Libertarians, too. Because they’re in the process of abandoning their hard-line States Rights stance. The proposed Marriage Amendment is a good example of how they’ve decided to suddenly change their historical stance in that regard. Also there is a certain segment of people who were formerly Republican who have become Libertarian because of their current preoccupation with religious and moral issues - such as their hostility toward abortion. Several Libertarian’s that I know were formerly Republican’s but switched because they didn’t like the idea of the government suddenly wanting to dictate personal morality to them.

But the truth is, the only way we will ever see a third party rise in America is if the electoral collage is done away with. Until that time, getting selected as a vice presidential contender will be as much as a third party candidate can possibly hope for when it comes to gaining the power of the White House.

Adrienne, I get the newsletters from the Nader/Camejo offices. I have been kept abreast of their efforts to get the votes counted. The problem is that Nader garnered only slightly over 1/3 million votes, and fighting for vote recounts, while noble, important, and justified, the act has absolutely no mass appeal whatsoever. The American people don’t care if all the votes are counted. The American people wanted to know who won as quickly as possible so they could get back to their work, humping, TV sitcoms, and swill.

Not even the Democratic party with the most to gain from recounts is supporting the Nader effort. Nader is a Don Quixote in his post election activities. People only say they care about democracy and fair elections and voting accuracy, but their actions (absence of support for Nader’s efforts) belie their words.

Re: Jesse Venture, the Independance Party Minnesota is still around.

It is unfortunate that most of America, even in the intellectual circles, is programmed to accept the status quo, and unwilling to do the work necessary to promote meaningful change. There is a huge chunk of voting power that is not tied to one of the two parties. Between the independants and the third party members, they outnumber either of the two major parties.

The problem is that they are so wrapped up in their own agandas that they refuse to see each others’ valiid points. After looking at several of the Platforms, most of them look similar…excluding the radical Christian Right (whom I think are destined to burn in their own version of Hell).

Here’s the theory: Poll the third parties and independants to find out the priority issues they have in common. Among them, campaign finance reform (Mccain-Feingold didn’t work), Enviromentally sound policy, Health care and the corruption in the pharmaseutical industry corruption, coorporate domination, media corrption, fiscal responsibility, foreign policy, national security, and others.

See, these are the issues that are critical to address, yet the Republicrats would rather banter about idealogical differences of morality (the 10th ammendment rebukes this pretty effectivelly).

The goal of a third party affiliation would be to address the real concerns, and not get sucked into the hate game that so often dominated the election. What it will take is diplomacy between parties. It will take negotiation and willingness to prioritize and compromize.

I for one would rather embrace some hope, rather than doubt and fear. The two party system isn’t working. Things are going backwards. The only solution I see is for the third parties to unite and make it known to the other two parties that they don’t represent all of the people, and there is another voice that needs to be heard!

What all parties and politicians lack is
transparency and incentives to NOT
surrender to greed and laziness.
Until then, none of them hold the answers.

During elections, parties and politicians
pander and promise everything.
They later break those promises.
They know they can get away with a lot.
Thus, they will never behave responsibly
unless the voters force them to.

Force is required to make this happen.

Voters have the force required, but just
don’t realize it yet. Voters do not yet realize
the ONE simple thing they
can all do that is in ALL voters’ best interests;
the ONE simple thing that
can FORCE politicians to behave responsibly:
______________

ALL voters unite
at EVERY election
to Vote ALL incumbents OUT of office.
NO exceptions.

The rationale behind this is:

(1) It is not as important “who” we elect to offices,
as it is that the “politician” behave responsibly.
Running the government is not really that complicated.
There are lots of good people that can do these jobs.
It is more important that all politicians know that
voters will continue to vote out ALL incumbents
for a long time, until things improve
drastically. It’s that simple. No need to contribute
money to a party. No need to bicker over which
candidate is more corrupt than the other. No need
to worry that the politicians will be tempted by greed.
Until things improve drastically, no politician is going
to be in office for very long. Therefore, voter have
the power and the much need force
required to give politicians an incentive to do the
right thing.

(2) If everyone obeyed the law,
never surrendered to greed and laziness,
we would have no need for laws and enforcement.
We have laws already.
We all know right from wrong.
Congress continues to do wrong.
What the voters need is FORCE.
Politicians will NEVER act responsibly until
they are FORCED to be held
accountable. Voters have that power, but
simply need to see the wisdom in joining ALL
of their votes to “Vote Out All Incumbents”,
every election , no exceptions , until things
improve drastically.

(3) In the past, no matter who we vote for, it
often seems like they are all corrupt.
That’s because, most of them ARE corrupt
(to varying degrees). Pork-Barrel is the latest
method of plunder. It often seems like one
choice is as good as another choice between
two arrogant parasitic politicians.
Congress is out of control.
Pork-Barrel spending is robbing Americans
of hard-earned tax dollars. There are too
many temptations and the politicians have
surrendered to greed and laziness.

_____________
Rather than vote on ANY politician, voters should
vote OUT all incumbents every election, for
a long time…..until things begin to improve drastically.

This one simple idea has a lot of benefits.
Benefits

Anything more complicated will probably never work,
and independent and 3rd parties will probably never be
strong enough to oust main party candidates, and
whose to say that would be better ?
We’ll probably simply end up with more of the status quo.

The only independent or 3rd party candidate that
will ever succeed is the one that champions this
one simple idea , which is in the
best interest of all the people.

Duverger’s law will prevent even a united Third Party from achieving electoral success. Only by scrapping our archaic plurality voting system in favor of alternative election mehtods, such as approval voting, will we see third parties and independents elected to public office in proportion to their acceptability and popularity.

In an infinite universe, perhaps we should
avoid absolutes and saying things like
NEVER, ALWAYS, ONLY.

Even Duverger said the principle was NOT absolute and exceptions have occurred:

There are counterexamples: Scotland has had until recently first-past-the-post and similar systems but has seen the development of several significant competing political parties…..Duverger himself did not regard his principle as absolute: instead he suggested that first-past-the-post would act to delay the emergence of a new political force….

And I should say that perhaps, ONE possible way
for any independent or 3rd party candidate to
gain more support than ever received before
may be for a party to champion this
ONE simple idea , which is in the
best interest of all the people,
which is and must be very simple.
The big difference between this simple idea
and other ideas is that it does not promote
a particular candidate. It merely denounces
ALL incumbents. And that is logical because we
now seen that both parties have learned to
consistently abuse the system, regardless of
which main party candidate is elected.
This may be one of the very few options left
to voters to force the government to be responsible and held accountable.
OneSimpleIdea

I like the “Approval Voting System” but I’m
not sure it has the single ingredient missing
from most political systems….the FORCE required
to make ALL politicians behave responsibly and
be held accountable. ApprovalVoting

The idea of “VoteOutAllIncumbents” is a message
to ALL politicians that their career in
politics is going to be short if they don’t
ALL start behaving responsibly.

Perhaps a combination of the two would work ?
That is still a simple approach; perhaps better ?

(1) Start with “Vote Out All Incumbents” ( The Force and Incentive Required )
which will provide the necessary force required to make government accountable.

(2) and then insist on the “The Approval Voting System” which will provide a MUCH better voting system.

There has been much talk for centuries about
government, procedures, methods, etc.

But it obscures the simple fact that nothing will
work or improve if government is not, somehow,
FORCED to be held accountable.

People can complain all they want, continue to vote
for one of two bad choices, get bogged down in the
mechanics and procedures of the government
bureaucracy (e.g. submitting and passing bills, filibustering,
petty partisan politics, obstructionism, etc.), and
still, nothing will improve, because
there are insufficient incentives to behave responsibly.
There are too many incentives to
vote for pork-barrel, pander to special interest groups,
plunder Social Security, and while they’re at it….
vote themselves’ a raise !

Do Americans’ need more proof that politicians need a wake-up call ?

Remember, it is human nature to be lazy, but immoral to surrender to it.
Why is it human nature to be lazy?
Because the opposite of laziness is work, and work is painful.
So, some people search for ways to plunder others’ proprety and live off of their labor.
Some people succumb to greed and corruption, especially
when many temptations exist to engage in plunder.
And, in the process, as many years go by, the politicians
eventually find ways to pervert the laws to legalize plunder.
When does the plunder end and people choose to do the right thing?
When plunder is more painful than working for a living. BUT, Voters must be the
ones to make it happen, because corrupted
politicians will NOT do it themselves.

Politicians and government need an incentive to work,
stop the plunder, provide transparency for all operations,
and punish those that plunder.
Voters must FORCE politicians and government to reform.

If we continue to let the master-cheater-parasiste politicians
and lazy-do-nothing government officials continue to abuse
tax payers, this country indeed be in big trouble.
We may already be in big trouble?

So, here’s the question of the hour:

WHO IS WILLING TO START THE MOVEMENT, AND HELP GET THE THIRD PARTIES TO REALIZE THAT THEY NEED TO UNITE?

I’d like to see this conversation on every blog on the web…any help out there?

Anthony Partin
San Marcos, TX

Please feel free to copy it and send it to anyone you like.
Please feel free to also criticize it, or comment on, or propose ways to make it better.
Please let me know if you know of any other ways to spread the idea.

I mailed it to all Senators and some Representatives, numerous editors, the Approval Voting web-site, News services, news stations, political editors, and numerous political blogs,
and will continue to do so.

I think all of the parties have valuable messages that mostly overlap.
The differences between Republicans and Democrats is less concerning
to me than the rampant arrogance and corruption in government.

The fundamental problem is really simple.
Government is corrupt and voters can not figure out how to unite to change that.
Voters falsely place too much hope in the belief that the right president will fix everything,
but he is only one person and he can not or will not fix the problem either.
The following is ample proof that something is fundamentally wrong in D.C.:
[1] record level pork-barrel spending
[2] record level deficits and spending
[3] mismanagement of Social Security and many other programs
[4] National Debt of about $8 trillion U.S. dollars
[5] some Veterans are not receiving adequate care

The irony is that voters already had this power,
but never attempted to use it this way.
Probably because the plan or party platform was too complicated.

The most important part of this simple plan is the one
thing that is missing from other strategies, which is the FORCE
required needed to make the politicians accountable,
which is the FIRST step required to fix all other problems.

Voters must have tunnel vision on this idea.
FIRST, FORCE government to be accountable and transparent.

Some people may miss the main simple point,
which is primarily to FORCE government to be accountable,
and some may start squabbling over the many details.
I’m not as concerned about the details of the plan as much as the need to
FORCE the politicians to be accountable, because I believe Congress will start
acting much more responsibly when they finally realize that this is supposed to be
a government Of the People, By the People, For the People.

Daniel Summars
Lewisville, TX
d.a.n@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~d.a.n/OneSimpleIdea.htm

Where Have Our Patriots Gone?
Written By: An ex- P.O.W.
Gone are the days of the great patriots in our government. Gone are the days when our elected officials can look themselves in the mirror and be proud. Gone are the days when we were taught as children that pride was the all important trait that we inherited from our parents and to never relinquish our pride in our selves and in our country.

Then gradually our greatest gift was destroyed slowly, inch by inch, by our government.

They passed laws making bribes to elected officials legal and calling it contributions. To add insult to injury they publish and brag about how many millions of dollars they took in bribes, (contributions).

Well, this is a great country and it has grown to be the greatest and most prosperous nation in the world but we all know that what goes up must come down and I believe the down turn is beginning.

Our government has begun to think that because they have fooled us and gotten us to vote them back into office time after time, that they can control the third world countries and then the rest of the world and exert their control over the whole world in the name of humanity.

Our legislators are far from the ideal leaders we want, They are greedy and morally reprehensible and socially unacceptable. Most of them are so susceptible to blackmail that they can’t dare exhibit any control on even the most flagrant misuse of power by their brethren.

Well, the third parties are here and they want the graft and misuse of power stopped before there is a third world war. They want this country to return to decency, patriotism and pride. They want the graft to stop and be able to teach these things to our children again by example.

We not only want it, WE DEMAND IT.

Come on ALL third parties, lets ban together and in unity, replace the demigods. I don’t know how you feel about it but I’m ashamed of our legislators. In case you are wondering what right I have to be saying this, let me tell you.

As a patriotic young man, I enlisted in the Army and went over seas to fly a B24 over Germany. I was shot down, wounded and landed in Hitlers castle yard. I weighed 190 pounds when I was captured and weighed 120 pounds when I escaped the last time.

I was given two purple hearts for being wounded and a Bronze Star for heroism for staying in the plane when everyone else had bailed out, I stayed and saved the ball turret gunners life by getting him out of the ball and throwing him out of the plane. I waited until his chute opened then I bailed out.

I never claimed to be a hero, just a survivor but I’m 83 years old now and I can still claim to be a Patriot.

An ex POW
Roy Downing - downingr@optonline.net

Where Have Our Patriots Gone?
Written By: An ex- P.O.W.
Gone are the days of the great patriots in our government. Gone are the days when our elected officials can look themselves in the mirror and be proud. Gone are the days when we were taught as children that pride was the all important trait that we inherited from our parents and to never relinquish our pride in our selves and in our country.

Then gradually our greatest gift was destroyed slowly, inch by inch, by our government.

They passed laws making bribes to elected officials legal and calling it contributions. To add insult to injury they publish and brag about how many millions of dollars they took in bribes, (contributions).

Well, this is a great country and it has grown to be the greatest and most prosperous nation in the world but we all know that what goes up must come down and I believe the down turn is beginning.

Our government has begun to think that because they have fooled us and gotten us to vote them back into office time after time, that they can control the third world countries and then the rest of the world and exert their control over the whole world in the name of humanity.

Our legislators are far from the ideal leaders we want, They are greedy and morally reprehensible and socially unacceptable. Most of them are so susceptible to blackmail that they can’t dare exhibit any control on even the most flagrant misuse of power by their brethren.

Well, the third parties are here and they want the graft and misuse of power stopped before there is a third world war. They want this country to return to decency, patriotism and pride. They want the graft to stop and be able to teach these things to our children again by example.

We not only want it, WE DEMAND IT.

Come on ALL third parties, lets ban together and in unity, replace the demigods. I don’t know how you feel about it but I’m ashamed of our legislators. In case you are wondering what right I have to be saying this, let me tell you.

As a patriotic young man, I enlisted in the Army and went over seas to fly a B24 over Germany. I was shot down, wounded and landed in Hitlers castle yard. I weighed 190 pounds when I was captured and weighed 120 pounds when I escaped the last time.

I was given two purple hearts for being wounded and a Bronze Star for heroism for staying in the plane when everyone else had bailed out, I stayed and saved the ball turret gunners life by getting him out of the ball and throwing him out of the plane. I waited until his chute opened then I bailed out.

I never claimed to be a hero, just a survivor but I’m 80 years old now and I can still claim to be a Patriot.

An ex POW
Roy Downing - downingr@optonline.net

Roy Downing,

You are a hero !
Even though you may not think so.

I agree with you. It worries me too.
And I will do what I can to change it.

The 1st step is recognizing the fundamental problem: Greed and Corruption rooted in Laziness.
The 2nd step is formulating a FORCEFULL solution (that has a chance in hell of working).
The 3rd step is to spread the word. The solution must be simple. I think THIS might work. Nothing else is.
The 4th step is to execute the plan. Once again, it must be simple, inexpensive, easy to understand.
It must have one more important ingredient: the FORCE to make Congress accountable.

Master-Cheater-Parasite Politicians and Lawyers have taken over our government,
and we the Voters, must do this ONE simple thing to make government accountable, and let them know that
this is supposed to be a government Of the People, By the People, For the People !

http://home.comcast.net/~d.a.n/OneSimpleIdea.htm

I have just finished reading the 9 point plan and believe that It should be published in it’s interity in every newspaper of stature in the USA.
It should be published on every web site maintained by any third party that has a web site.
Jack Gargan used his own money to publish a Throw all rascalls out and asked for donotions to publish in even more newspapers.
If we all band together on this, and I think we can all agree on this one thing, We can make it happen.
I’m willing to start the ball rolling by publishing the 9 point plan on our web site.
What say ye from all other third partys and anyone else that maintains a web site.
Let’s use the web to spread the word and if enough donations come in, we can then begin publishing in all the newspapers.
We are not lazy and the web is free.

Roy Downing
Wwebmaster for the American Reform Party
www.AmericanReform.org

Roy,

I’m all for that. Please share it and anyone may copy & edit it.

So, it was Jack Gargan that you refer to ?
Is that correct ?
I found a web-site: the T.H.R.O. campaign ?
I’ll need to study that.

David R. Remer,
Who is Grogin ? Did you mean Gargan ?
I can’t find anything on “Grogin”.

______
People should also write their Senators,
Representatives, and the Executive Branch.
I already sent it to all Senators and some
Representatives. I only received automated canned responses.

The internet probably reaches more people now
than anything else, except maybe television.

I think it could conceivably work, if it remains
simple, inexpensive, and effective.
However, I would like to hear all criticisms of the idea.

Regardless, the one idea must remain simple and
rely on the belief that force is required to
make government accountable, and that much more
responsible behavior and improvements will
naturally follow after one simple core change.

“Vote Out ALL Incumbents”
It’s interesting that a web site already exists
with those letters (V.O.A.I.) for Victory Over Addiction International, and

Too bad Incumbent starts with an “I”.
Vote Out The “E”ncumbents (V.O.T.E) would
work perfectly. It’s also interesting that a web site already exists with the letters (V.O.T.I.)
for Voice Of The Internet.