Third Party & Independents: Archives

I vote for sanity!
I vote for Truth in Government!
But most of all, I vote for Americans to come together and change the political parties that have divided Our Country.

Right on Henry. Let’s go among them and together make America better.

But will you vote in your family’s interests or vote for Bush and risk seeing them (or yourself) get drafted? Here’s the real deal on Bush and our military. Although Bush’s got the better tongue and has avoided being called to the carpet on it, Bush’s a big flip flopper.

Bush Flip Flop 1. After 9/11 Bush said he wanted bin Laden dead or alive. Then he said he wasn’t “that concerned” about bin Laden in March 2002, as recorded by a White House Transcript. Apparently because he wasn’t concerned about bin Laden, Bush marched into Iraq before finishing the job of catching bin Laden. Recently, Bush said he never said he wasn’t that concerned bin Laden and that he wants bin Laden dead or alive. Bush flip flopped and took his eye off the ball of catching bin Laden, and now even Bush admits it’s not a matter of if we will suffer another terrorist attack, but when.

Big Bush Flip Flop 2. Bush promised Congress he would exhaust all available means before going to war with Iraq. Then Bush flip flopped and rushed us into war with Iraq because he said he knew Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Ooopps. Wrong country. No WMD in Iraq. That would be North Korea and Iran. Did Bush ever take responsibility for his flip flop mess that resulted in over 1000 US soldiers lost to date? Of course not. Instead he fired someone else, the head of the CIA. Time to hold the man who admits no mistake accountable for once. Fire Bush.

Big Bush Flip Flop 3 (to come): Hello draft. Just because Bush denies that doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. Just like Bush said he wasn’t that concerned about bin Laden or Sadam has WMD. Right. What do you believe? The tongue of someone with a history of telling lies like Bush or the reality of our forces being stretched to the bone. If Bush were in the National Guard today he would not be able to run away and waste all the taxpayer’s dollars so he could play fighter pilot. He would actually have to serve. As will many others in a draft if Bush gets elected and then flip flops like he has on key military issues before. Will you bet your life or those of your loved ones on Bush or on reality? Are you Red enough to risk your life? Vote responsibly. Vote Kerry.

J

I don’t believe John Kerry will institute the draft. He only talks about it during the election.

jack, c’mon. There is only one appropriate answer to the question, “Would you reinstate the draft?”

The answer is “IF the security of our nation requires it”. I guarantee the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, Congress, Cabinets, would all insure that any President who was reluctant to reinstate the draft if the national security required it, would have no future in the office, possibly not even a future on this planet.

That makes Bush a flat out liar or incompetent on the issue, and Kerry a fence sitter at best and flat out liar or incompetent on the issue as well. As a voter, I think I know that regardless of who is elected, if the security of our nation or our troops overseas requires a draft, that President will move to reinstate it.

David:

i understand where you’re coming from, but is nader really the great figure you make him out to be? to me he seems like all he cares about is getting his name out there by declaring what’s wrong with the two major parties rather than talking about what he would do to change things. i’m basing this on the fact that the green party wouldn’t endorse him this year - most likely because he has done nothing for their cause in the past 4 years.
to me it seems a vote for nader is worse than no vote at all. i don’t think there’s anything wrong with not voting if you don’t feel strongly about one candidate or the other. now i know there are a million people out there who would chew me out for saying that, but honestly i think the notion of the right to vote has been over-blown in the sense that today one is looked down upon for not voting. i, myself have been guilty of this, but after further reflection i realized that the right to be able to vote is just as important as the right to chose not to vote. but who knows, i may be way off base.

David

As you guessed, I was being facetious about Kerry and the draft, but only because he tries to inflame the issue.

I am not sure we would need a draft even if Kerry’s predictions come to pass. The military does not want it and we could recruit the soldiers we need with better incentives. I don’t really think we will see more of the types of commitments we now have and our deployment in Iraq will lessen over time. In any case, you recall that the Brits ran the largest empire in world history and did not institute a draft until World War I. All the other powers had conscription well before.

cole, if nothing else, Nader offers a clear and unambiguous choice to the other candidates. He would set a date, and pull out of Iraq. Period. It just doesn’t get any less nuanced than that! Nader even makes Bush look ‘sophisticated’.

Nader would tax all corporations which consume our nation’s natural resources of water, air, timber, minerals, etc. and insure that that revenue went toward reducing the national debt.

Kerry would raise the minimum wage to a level that permits a breadwinner of 4 to rent an apt, own transportation for work, maintain utility bills, pay for health insurance and go out for pizza once or twice a month.

That is just a few, there is a lot more. Now you can argue how worthless or brilliant Nader’s positions are, but, the bottom line is Nader offers straight answers, clear choices, and seeks to restore the great middle class dream Americans enjoyed in growing numbers from 1950 through to 2001.

Who is more likely to CREATE the need for a draft? Belligerent Bush or Global Test Kerry. I think the answer is pretty clear. Four more years means four more wars (and a draft) versus four years of negotiating with the UN, which maybe isn’t such a bad thing in comparison.

jack, 4 years is a long time, and there are a number of scenarios that could arise that would at least precipitate a debate over reinstatement of the draft.

One of our weaknesses is Iraq. If Iran (extremely unlikely, but for debate purposes) decides to take advantage of our weakness believing we will only be stronger as time goes by, to launch a conventional war against American troops in Iraq, and if the body bags began doubling or tripling, two things happen immediately.

The demand for troops in Iraq would quadruple at the very least. And because of rapidly growing body bags, volunteers would become a lot more scarce, especially among those who believed we should not have invaded Iraq in the first place.

Increasing demand for troops and diminishing volunteers would equal reinstatement of the draft. Now I chose an extremely remote scenario, but, their are others with a much higher plausibility factor that would have the same result.

And as the declassified section of the OBL tape indicates, engagement by another armed force whether regular or large and irregular, could seriously weaken the U.S. economically, and that is incentive for countries like Syria to contemplate.

Let’s face it, no organization is going invade and take over the U.S. Our enemies must plan other ways and as I said, there are a number of other scenarios that are plausible which could result in the need for reinstating the draft or at least seriously debating the issue as pressure from the Pentagon demanded it. I pray it does not happen or come to that. But, forcing a draft reinstatement has to be considered one of our enemies top priority goals in light of Bush’s guarantee to not do so.

It would severely divide our nation from within.

JD, the reality is nowhere close to being that simple, and Kerry will have to worry about being forced to reinstate the draft as much as Bush will if reelected.

I was going to post this as a separate short article, but I did not want to clog up space from serious election-related stuff before the big day so I thought a this topic would be a decent place to put this due to the topic being the meaning of one’s vote…

When I was looking at my absentee ballot this morning, I was very frustrated. I am in the safest of safe states (Massachusetts), and I did not like a single one of my choices for president (even Badnarik, the libertarian candidate, has learned quickly how to pander to get the minimal number of votes he is trying to receive). Moreover, almost all of my local races were unopposed Democrats, for obvious reasons. I also had a couple of ballot questions, which seemed like minor changes to the way my home town’s government will be settled. It was all and all a pretty uninspiring experience.

I have to say that I believe I have had the most “impact” and meaning I got from this election was from my discussions here with my friends at Watchblog. Knowing that I at least made some people on both sides take into account different points of view on the size of our government, its proper scope, and the proper role of the constitution made my frustrating ballot experience worth while. I voted after incredible amounts of struggle between Bush, Badnarik and a write and I made my choice- a choice I did not finally make until I filled in that little round circle with my tiny state-provided pencil. My choice and struggle was greatly enriched by the discussions we have had here over the passed couple of months.

It may not have had much of an impact on the outcome of this race, but I am glad that I got to go through the experience with you guys and girls. Thank you to everyone who has made me feel welcome, challenged and inspired here. To me, you guys are exactly what our framers were hoping for when they set out one hot summer night to forge a country where ideas, debate and informed consent would be touchstone and currency. Whoever wins- Kerry or Bush- I hope we can continue the dialogue we have had, because it will be just as needed after this one election is over.

(Bet you did not know I was such a sap, ha?)

Misha, what a fine and gracious comment to add to WatchBlog’s archives. Way to go! There is no question this Third Party column would not be nearly as dynamic, evocative, or informative if your were not here participating with a Libertarian leaning Independent voice.

Misha:

Underneath the crusty and wizened exterior lies a sappy teddy bear, eh? Who’da thunk it?

Your words and comments have made those capable of reading them and understanding better for having done so. As have the diverse and often contentious comments of many in here.

This type of forum is precisely why America is a great country. Were there some type of “nazification” as some ignorantly suggest, or were there a general elimination of freedom of speech, this type of open forum would not exist. That it does is a testament to America.

Let us hope that tomorrow brings a clear direction for the United States, and that partisanship does not force us to avert our eyes to that direction. May God bless America.

Let’s get real. Neither Bush nor Kerry will implement the draft unless he needs to. It’s just a matter of who will put us in a situation, like another war, which will require a draft. Bush has a bad track record of jumping into a war which we didn’t really need to fight. I bet if you ask all the mothers of those young boys who died in Iraq whether they believe the war and their sons’ deaths were necessary you will have most of them saying no. This is not like World War II, where we had to do it. Bush jumped the gun on Iraq because he said he knew they had weapons of mass destruction. Bush did not want to wait for the weapons inspection process to finish. Only after we invaded did we find out there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, although there were in North Korea and Iran is well along in getting them. There was no real need to attack Iraq. Bush should have let the inspections process go on. He still won’t admit his mistake. He does not learn from his mistakes.

Bush still has his eye on Iran and North Korea, which along with Iraq he calls the “Axis of Evil” — how grown up. Let’s hope for the best if he gets reelected, but based on Iraq I’m not optimistic.

You Americans are so self obsessed. Do you know how few you are in number compared to the billions whose lives are affected by your domestic squabbles, tax worries, war making and the like. Do you not realise that you are the new Roman Empire at best and the new Reich at worst and the world fears you for you lie, you cheat, and rule? Can you grasp the concept that non-Americans are just as important as each and every one of you? Do you realise what you have allowed your governments to do to this planet and its peoples for decades.

For God sake get it right this time or the world will kick you ass for good and you will only have yourselves to blame for being lazy slobs who could not be bothered voting AT ALL or self interested bigots who dont want to lose a percentage point on their investment portfolios.

WAKE UP AMERICANS (COS AMERIKA WONT)THE CHILDREN OF THIS WHOLE WORLD ARE WATCHING YOU!THIS IS A WORLD EMPIRE ELECTION !