Third Party & Independents: Archives

I would like to know why the teaching, or not teaching, of our children should be placed solely in the governments hands.

Teachers and parents have been teaching children for years without the newest and most state of the art equipment.

While having that stuff helps, it can not be used as an excuse for why our children fail reading and basic math.

Today we even have to be politically correct in the schools. Psychologists say failing a child for not being able to read does more damage to the child than not being able to read. If the child is not ready for the next level the child should not go. Children learn at different paces. It’s a fact of life.
The parents should work with their child all summer to get them up to speed then go prove that their child can move on.
If the parent(s) don’t have the time they should ask someone to help. Even if it embarrasses them to admit their child isn’t a straight ‘A’ student.

I assume that parents all over the country get reports throughout the school year on how their children are doing. I do.

If a teacher is not being honest about a student because they fear they will be blamed or lose their job then that has to be changed (unless the whole class is failing). Maybe the student just needs extra attention and the rest of the class is doing fine. If the school doesn’t have the resources then the parent has got to do something.

I think the ‘No child left behind’ not only put responsibilty on the government, parents and teachers are being held responsible.

Rev: Nice writting. I am glad you didn’t go the partisan route, for either side.
Your, School’s Open ‘Til Six” component is a valid idea but I do not think it can work if it depends on govt. funding. My kids’ school has an afterschool program up to 6:15. It is run by volunteers and funded through local money.
I think the answer to our education needs lies with the parents. If parents don’t care, but instead rely on someone else, no amount of money will do any good.

Dawn, why should the parents be held accountable to teach their own children. Can’t the village or govt. take care this problem for them?
Great comment!

Thanks kctim.

The problem of blame the government not yourself runs through most every issue.

I have a 2nd grader and a pre-schooler and I’ll not leave the responsibility of their education solely to the teachers and the government.

It is MY job as THEIR MOTHER to make sure they will be able to lead productive lives as adults.

Why would I leave that responsibility to someone else?? If I wasn’t willing to take on the responsibility I shouldn’t have had them in the first place or given them to someone who would.

Education, good values, and personal responsibilty start at home and noone should ever expect the government or anyone else to do this for them.

“Education, good values, and personal responsibilty start at home and no one should ever expect the government or anyone else to do this for them.”

Careful with that Dawn, or you will be labeled as a crazy, uncaring, right wing extremist, racist bigot, as I have been. Shoot, I’m not even a Republican.

It’s funny how the left is always spewing the equal treatment and fairness for “all” women but when a woman actually believes in personal responsibilty, her ideas are totally wrong and she is ignored by them. IMHO

Let them call me names. Maybe the only courses they passed were lunch and playground skills.

Maybe if people didn’t spend so much time trying to get the government to do and pay for everything something might actually get done.

I’m sure lobbyists in Washington make a whole lot more money than the average teacher does.

After all … lobbyists are so much more important than teachers.

I have several friends who are not white and they stand with those who believe the government is not responsible for their children or for putting food on their tables.

Dawn:

Several years ago I moved from a “good” school district to a “great” school district. The taxes in my new town are higher, as are the incomes, though both communities would be considered middle class, I think.

The biggest difference I’ve seen is the level of parental involvement. Yes, the new district has lots of goodies—new computers, better equipment etc.

At the old school, my wife was a room mother and had to work hard to get people involved. Typically, out of a class of 20-30 kids, 3-5 mothers would do all the work (bringing cookies, chaperoning field trips etc).

In the new district, women fight to be the ones being involved. Typically there are TOO MANY parents who want to be involved.

Cynics will say that a wealthier district has a higher percentage of one income families—and its true here as well. But the difference is not a great difference.

I dont know if these parents care more about being involved, or are just willing to make it happen. My wife works 2 jobs, has managed to do it on flex time, and goes to all our kids’ sports, plays, PTA meetings, etc etc etc. As do I.

Dawn, nice rhetoric, but, you oversimply to the point of absurdity. America decided about 100 years ago, that every white child born in America should have access to education. As late as the 1950’s, children born in America were not being educated. Their parents were not educated and poverty ruled their lives, due to the effects of slavery just decades prior, and states rights which left education to each state to determine what color of skin should be educated and what colors should not.

The reason Beverly Hillbillies was funny was because of the truth of lack of education that underlied the theme of the show. OK, fast forward to the ‘60’s, now America decides every child regardless of economic or ethnicity or parental education, is entitled to a quality eduation. It was a noble, and equitable, and righteous decision for this nation to make.

Now, how to implement that decision. How does a nation go about insuring a decent education for children of poverty, children of uneducated parents, and children in rural areas where local taxes cannot support quality education?

Got the picture? It is like military defense. It is a goal that cannot be accomplished be individual citizens working in groups. No matter how hard they try, 100’s of thousands, even millions of children would not get a decent education under a private enterprise basis. Thus, public education subsidized as far as possible by local funds, and the difference made up by federal funds with federal law overriding state laws which had no problem with kids of color not getting a quality education.

Your welcome.

While i agree parents make the difference, I also find that some of the arguments here ring hollow.

The well to do schools have more parental involvment partly because of culture, but also because well to do folks generally have more control over their time and more leisure time.

They can afford to hire someone to mow the lawn or pay someone else to fix the car. The wife or house husband can afford to take a less demanding or flex job, or be stay at home parent.

I think affordable childcare services are critical to allowing the working poor to give this luxury to their children.

Dave,
You completely lost me in your history lesson. Are you saying we cannot fix our education problems no matter what?

Greg,

Childcare - Our neighbors moved from middle America to Chicagoland.

Her husband is a bigshot in his company - of course when they moved his wages were adjusted so he could maintain the same standard of living for his family.

The thing that got me was - she came to visit and was complaining that it was costing her twice as much for a babysitter even though her husband is making the equivalent to what he was.

Anyway. As far as I know people can get money to help pay for their childcare. Of course you have to qualify. I don’t know what the requirements are.

I am not so sure our government actually knows the people that make even a couple dollars over minimum wage probably still need help but probably don’t qualify.

I can’t see the daycare providers lowering their fees because then they would be taking care of your child for practically nothing. Who wants to work for nothing?

Besides my wanting to stay home and screw up my own kids - it just wouldn’t pay for me to go to work. Not after taxes, daycare, and anything else I would need to get there and work there.
Fortunately I had the option. Not everyone does.

America needs to wake up and realize that there is no cheap way out of paying for our children’s education. The cost of buildings, books, and a self defeating agenda will leave a large gap in what is possible and what the local school broads require to be learned.

Although Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” may be a good idea, it lacks the insight and formula required to challange the local schools to change. Today, our teachers are teaching our children how to pass tests instead of enlighting them to the “World of Knowledge.”

The 3 R’s have been the cornerstone of the public school system since its introduction; however, today’s society requires more than 12 years of going over the same subjects. Our children need to learn the basics (K-6th Grade) and than be forced to demonstrate what they have learned. If they do not hold aleast a 5th grade reading, writing, arithmetic level they should be tutored to until they can.

7th & 8th grade should be used to expand their knowledge in how to research a subject as well as place heavy influence on science, engineering, and social behavior. By our country’s school system pushing them to look at the world in reality and logic they will begin to look at our problems in a new light.

9th-12th grade should be utilzed to help them operate a home, explore their employment options, and take courses that allow them to enter the job market as a skilled laborer.

Until America is willing to address these changes in a real and thoughtful manor our education system will always rank near the bottom of the industrailized nations of the world.

Henry,

I am all for giving children all the basic skills that they need and explaining how they are applied in the ‘real world’.
As they get older I am for focusing on skills and giving them options for their futures. Like the Vocational Schools. Workshops. Internships.
Most kids have no idea what they want to be when they grow up, but they do know what subjects they like and are best at.

No matter how hard you try to get an 11th grader to pass a History test on a subject they care little about they will almost always do poorly.

So… I see things pretty much as you do.

Schools may never be funded properly since their is no $ profit in them. The profit comes from well educated children. This you know.

Our government has assumed financial responsibility for so many things it doesn’t have the money to spend on education.

The only way I see out of the mess is for our government to just stop the wasteful spending (big dream of mine) or to get companies and individuals to donate more to schools. Also the way schools assign money locally needs to be revamped.

Dawn,
There is a huge profit in educating our children properly. Although the pay off is not instant smarter generations will keep America on top of the world as a leader. However, our society is wants everything done right away.

I have talked to many of high school students that feel that the subjects they are being taught do not have anything that will help them in life. Therefore, I support allowing high school students to take classes which help them learn how to live the lifestyle they choose.

Education is a proper thing to spend large sums of money on because if we can teach people how to dicuss problems intellegently they will stop killing each other.

Gee whiz willickers Henry - there we go again. This is going to have to stop. Agreeing is against the laws of politics.

I don’t imagine there are too many administrators that actually ask the kids what they want. I have actually spoke to high school kids too about what they think - and believe it or not some of them can!

My sister was a teacher, then in the administrative part and is now back to teaching. She tried to make a difference but cannot move mountains - or stubborn people who can’t see the need for change - by herself.

I have actually spoke to high school kids too about what they think - and believe it or not some of them can!

I went through the California school system. For any kid who wants to, and who is encouraged to learn, public school is actually pretty good.

I had a couple teachers who, in retrospect, weren’t very good. But that’s a problem than can be solved by getting rid if “tenure”.

In addition to attracting more good teachers, Kerry says,

“No teacher should have a lock on a job regardless of performance, and it should not take tens of thousands of dollars and years in courtrooms to dismiss an ineffective teacher.”

Dawn,
That is what happens when people learn to face the facts and than let them guide the people to a common ground.

AP and you still need to look at the local and state school boards because thats where the problem begins. Their strangle hold over the sheer BS administration of the school systems is more likely to put any good teacher to the test. Just as in politics, they promote people based on who you know instead of who makes the difference in the classroom.

Public education is not bad; however, the administration of the system is in need of a complete makeover.

AP,

Would that include College Professors? It should.
I went through a NY system. My brother lived there until last year and said it is nothing like it was. It used to be one of the best in the state and NY State was always ranked way up there which has fallen off too I guess.

Henry,

We actually have a great school system here. It covers almost a whole county. The city kids and the country kids have the same things. The only complaints I have heard about teachers usually ends up being a personality conflict with the student or parent.

Our PTO and parents are very good about getting the things that the budget won’t allow for. By donations from people and businesses or fundraisers.

Parents have to pay book fees each year to cover the disposable goods such as workbooks and art supplies. The amount varies by grade.

We are not a wealthy county here in middle America but we make sure our kids get what they need. Our kids have a 95% attendance rate. Our school system has implemented a plan to make that even higher.

Don’t fix what ain’t broke?

We do have a problem with the High School. It is no longer large enough to accomodate all the kids. The elementary schools have been adding classes and teachers also.
We do have to fix the High School issue.

I think Bush has been the “education president”!
Fact is, in putting testing standards in place, Bush has done more for our schools than any other president in my memory and it hardly cost a dime.
Case in point, my local district, who has raised two levels in the scoring system from below par to the highest score.
Without any of the increased levies our district asks for 2-3 times per year, they improved.
When people are held accountable, they perform and that’s what’s happened here.
Nobody wants to be labeled a failure so the job gets done.

Dave,
You might want to check out how the teachers are teaching your children. To many schools have been teaching the tests instead of teaching the subject. Although it is good to set standards for education, many children lose out on getting exposed to the real subject.

I know for a fact that the local school board has set the classroom agenda and exactly what is to be taught to the students. Yes, it may save the school from failing; however, the students foresake a well rounded education.

Dawn,
Yes, most parents say that their school is doing better about involving the parents in their children’s education. However, my problem with the test driven No Child left Behind is that the child only learns what is on the test. Our we as a society ready to start spitting out our children like they are on an assemble line?

No, I think that young children need to be exposed to more than “Run Jane Run” type of learning. As you know a child learns and retains more information between 3-5 years old than they do the rest of their life. I for one was able to do simple math and english when I was 5 just by watching my brother and sister do their homework. Furthermore, we know that the Head Start program has helped our youth become better adjusted in the first few years of school. This age group is one place our school boards should be able to help by giving new parents the knowledge of how to teach their child everything while they are young enough to learn it all.

As far as helping in cutting costs, I would like to see our national education system switch to CD’s and DVD’s Text Research Data disks. By allowing a child to access through their computers and internet the entire subject instead of someone’s idea on how they think it should be. I hoped I maded sense with that statement.

For it gets me how our schools use several different books on history, math, and sience to teach the kids. I know you need to keep some information simple (to be nice); however, I feel that most children do want to know the truth. The trick for most people is to learn how to put it.

As far as you needing a new high school, I have an idea for you to pass by the PTA. First, design the school to be totaly wireless internet access. By making a deal with IBM, Sony or Dell everyone going to high school could get a new laptop/tablet pc. Than all the school board would have to do is buy one book per subject per grade. and transfer the information on to a server (web page). I’m not sure of the legality of the issue, but if the piblisher wants to make a fuse over it tell them that you will burn a copy for them to resell to other schools. Also, the internet would allow the teacher the freedom to place challanges to the students. Sort of like we do at blogging. Prove your point with facts.

Remember, nothing is impossible until we think it is. The only problem we have is the one we have not found the right solution for yet. Good luck on your school.

Dave, Henry is right. I am engaged in a debate with the my daughter’s school right now over this issue. They are spending 2.5 weeks of each semester teaching her rote memory of the standards test before giving her the test to GURANANTEE that sufficient students will pass the test in order to keep the schools funding. Her principal asked the right question to moderate my debate, she asked, if I wanted my daughter’s school to lose funding and the teachers and equipment my daughter has available to her, or do I want her to learn all of the rest of the weeks of the semester. They understand my argument and concern and advised I contact my representatives. Only problem is, my representatives are Republican (Sen.’s Hutchison, Cornyn, and Rep. Llamar Smith) and they stand by this idiotic standards program of Bush’s which is wasting educational time and effort of our children and teachers.

The program is doing some good in some schools to elevate standards, but for most schools and most students, it is a waste of educational resources. What are you measuring when you rote memorize student’s answers and then give them the test once again officially. All that is measured is the student’s ability to remember. How about student’s ability to work real life math problems, understand the dynamic nature of civics or American History, or even how to write a coherent paragraph? Those are not measured on these standards tests. When you tie funding to tests, the tests will become a deceptive game of artificially high scoring through methods that don’t measure learning, only short term memory.

If our students had short term memory problems they wouldn’t be in regular public schools, they would be in special education classes.

David:

Ifff the information contained in the test is what the kids should be learning, why is that bad?

For instance, if the subject is math, I want my kids to learn equations, principles, formulas etc that are contained in algebra, trig, calculus etc.
So if the test actually tests for those things, then how is that bad?

I’m sure you’d agree that there has to be some method of ascertaining whether kids are learning. What kind of assessment level would you be in favor of? It would need to have some degree of constancy to it, so that it could be applied in different areas and have some meaning.

Let me know your thoughts on how to test whether the kids are learning what they should, and perhaps also what you think they should be learning. Thanks

JBD,
On teaching the subject of math you say you support teaching your children the problems on the test. The problem with that approach is they learn only to look at a problem they can solve. For example, 2+2=4 or we can put it in this formula Jane has two apples, Mike has three oranges plus one apples, and Joey has one apple and an orange. How many apples and oranges are there each? Of course there is four apples and four oranges; nevertheless, the teacher tells your child not to worry about the story problems because they will not be on the test. Is that teaching or training to pass the test?

One major reason students should be taught the logic of thinking a problem through was shown in 1972 when two old truck drivers with an 8th grade education blew away our governments finest highly educated transportation experts as they tried to set a new 10 hour or 550 miles a day limit on drivung rigs. Well, to make a long story short the experts were proving wrong. It seems that while the formula 10 hr. X 55 MPH (speed limit)= 550 miles, in reality we need to consider the direction of travel, which clock is being used, and the levelness of the ground we are going over.

Examples like this can be found everyday in almost every field of knowledge. Therefore, I propose a standard test that requires a student to use both book smarts and real life application in determining a child’s progress. It is sad that we are leaving our common sense solutions to problems for what someone in a book says is right today, only to find out tomorrow the information is wrong (i.e. The World is Flat).

“Out of the Box Thinking” is a learned art. It requires that the person have both working knowledge as well as expertise in the area or subject they are finding solutions to problems that have been brought up by one sided thinkers.

Without parental involvement, public schools will continue to fail. If parents do not love or care about their own children enough to help, then no amount of money that is pumped into public schools will help. It is only wasted.
Sob stories of daycare hardships, teaching tests instead of educating, not enough time and not enough pc’s or its too hot are excuses. Excuses don’t teach, they hold people back.
Education is the key to a childs future, if a parent really loves their child, they will make sure they get that education.

Henry:

You get no disagreement from me regarding your examples. I would, however, point out that you claim to be in favor of standardized testing. Your exact words were: “Therefore, I propose a standard test that requires a student to use both book smarts and real life application in determining a child’s progress.”

That’s exactly what I want done as well. I want a good test that will determine if kids are actually learning.

As an example, I took 4 years of German in high school. One of my friends was a tennis player, and the German teacher was the tennis coach. During the third year of German, I sarcastically asked my friend, “Sprechen sie Deutsch” (Do you speak German), and he did not know what the phrase meant. THREE YEARS of German and he didnt know a kindergarten level phrase.

Did the German teacher do his job?? I know the TENNIS coach did HIS job, cuz this guy won the championship that year.

The point is that there needs to be some standard of performance. How to assess that can be discussed, but there is no discussion regarding the need for some type of testing.

There has to be a combination of standardized tests and ‘thinking outside the box’.

Not everyone can think outside the box. There are people that no matter how hard you try to get them to see something differently they just can’t. If it isn’t in the book or already figured out for them they are screwed.

You can be a factory worker with a high school education who comes up with an idea that will save the company millions or you can be an engineer who never comes up with anything new.

That is why kids should be able to get an education that is geared towards their interests and strengths. They still have to know the basics and have a general idea of everything else.

If you are good with your hands or good with your head you should be allowed to head off in the direction you need to go.

The basics still need to be taught and there still has to be some way to make sure they are.

This idea may start to sound crazy, but hang in there with me.

On the Basics:
The 3 R’s: Curremtly as a nation we maintain somewhere around an 5-8th grade level reading level. This information is available through your local school board.

Solution: In order to correct the problem anyone above the fifth grade must proove they have the ability to read, comprehend, and spell at a 5th grade level or bot graduate. Of course, the students would be given a self reading course as homework to help them and their family raise the child’s reading ability. Tech or Text books would be considered acceptable reading material since they drive different sides of the brain.

At the same time we begin making sure every student under the 5th grade meets the requirement or will be held back in the sixth grade until they want to grow up.

The Middle School years are to be spent researching everything. With the use of the internet broadcasted just like the local 911 systems should allow every student to investigate almost any subject and provide a national bank of experts with links to answer the question TRUTHFULLY or with a response to his/her parents for them to explain as they see fit.

The final test would be to research and report on twelve of the searches they have done. Radom drawing of individual search records should make it fun for the teacher and parents to come up with an useful test at the end of the 8th grade. Maybe even reading the top ten at an assembly.

The last for years of school should be gaining the basic knowledge it takes to operate a real life. (i.e. economics, finances, cross reference thinking[ability to relate any subject to your strong point of learning], and of course raising their ability to think Outside the Box.

To make it simple, you take a child and ask them to use their imagination to come up with a solution to a problem that has never been tried. Than you ask them to prove it will work. Once you figure out the complexity of anything the rest of it is taking all the right steps. Hard way to learn, but you do not soon forget. After all experience is the best teacher.

Dawn,
OB thinking is very easy to teach and it is a real learning experience exspecialy if you travel to another country. Learning to commumincate without the ability of speech is something to enjoy. Everyone has at least one basic subjest that just clicks in their brain (known fact). Therefore, it is up to the local school board to find teachers tht can connect to their students at that level.

For example; a car is like the human body. It might sound funny, yet both can overheat, have hic-ups, and even give out. It’s the same way with a car and a book. Each part of the car can be explain as a part of a book. The engine is to paragraph, the words the fuel, and the cover the body. Bet you didn’t know you could do that?

Pushing the limit of both imaginenation and knowledge will lead to someone that begins to look at things logically. Thus wisdom itself gives way to foolish thoughts.

jbod, to answer your question, lets take two examples.

Test question: how much is 942 divided 3.

When teaching to the test they give the student the same question a couple times with the answer 314. The student memorizes the answer and question. Good, practices tests show 90% of the students are passing 80% of the questions and the other 10% are passing 75% of the questions. Great, this is better than an average bell curve result, so NOW, they administer the test for real.

Second example: They give the students different division problems with each practice test. This means the students can’t memorize the question and the answer to match. Now, they have to know how to work a long division problem and the incumbent rules for doing so. Many schools (not most) will fail to pass the NCLB standards for the number of students required to pass the test because they have special ed. students in their school. Ooopss! If they don’t teach to the test as in the first example, they lose funding. Hence, the motive and even necessity is created for schools to teach to the test, instead of spending that same time teaching the students to do the long division.

great point david!

i was at a wedding this weekend, where a couple i and my fiance were sitting with mentioned they were teachers.

i asked them about “no child left behind”

and they both kind of rolled their eyes, when i asked why, they mentioned the pressure that is being put on teachers now not to teach, but make sure kids can pass the tests…

standardized testing is the only way the gov’t can track and poll numbers to show how well education is going, and they typically focus on reading, mathmatics, and science.

however, the tests do nothing for kids who have any sort of learning disability, attention deficit disorder, or, like many in my case, just not good at math. (i’m an artist, us left brain thinkers dont do too hot with numbers)

even back when i was in grade school, teachers told my parents i would not do much in my life, because i was bad at math…so i would get that cubicle job i always dreamed of….

this couple also mentioned that how they teach is different then say, teachers at the fancy prepschool up the street from them and how they teach.

it is interesting that teachers in the private prep schools teach more critical thinking, independant thought, encourage children to ask questions, and develop leadership skills.

at the public schools, they focus more on everyone understanding the answer given by the teacher, follow orders, don’t question authority, etc…

i thought that was a fun fact…..

ANYWHO…

it is not the role of the gov’t to take the place of the parents, however, what do we do when both parents work 60+ hours a week in order to keep up with the rising cost of living, higher health insurance premiums and all those other little joys in life?

“no child left behind” does make the schools work harder to teach material to the kids….however, it seems like all it really wants is good test scores….which doesn’t mean the kids are learning anything at all…

short term memory is a wonderful thing….if you are one of those people that test well…then “no child left behind” is for you…but for those kids who need the extra care and time to really understand material, we are asking our teachers to pass them over, and just get through the coursework.

It has been many years since my two kids were in school, (they are both 40+ now) but I have read these many posts with interest, especially the one by Dawn on October 1st. I’d like to add my 2 cents worth
Parents are and should be the first teachers of their children. The Government’s job is to provide the Financing and the learning environment. A child’s education starts right after birth, it is too soon for books of course, but we teach them that they are loved, welcome and safe. Although neither my husband or I went much past High School Graduation, I think we were able to give our two a good education, first of all by reading to them early in life, and giving them as many learning tools as we could manage, and giving them the best gift: our time and interest.
I realize that a lot of today’s parents have to hold down two or more jobs just to get by, but making time to devote to their childrens’ education will make the effort worth while.
I do think that the money the Govenment supplies could be better spent in many cases. Dare I suggest that some of the money spent on Sports Programs might be better used on After School Programs? I believe The state of Education today leaves a lot to be desired, why? because When I read the newspapers, or things on the Internet and in other Media I wonder how Education could have degraded so much, for instance I see like sounding, but not meaning words used intechangeably, (their, they’re there). And that is just the tip of the icberg.

rob,
If you have the artistic side of your brain look at numbers in the abstract form than you will be able to remember the rules easier.

For example, 2+2 does not always equal 4. It takes to long to explain it, but ask someone with a masters degree in advance math and be prepared for a long, long explianation.

Nevertheless, the example of how the private and public school look at teaching the students is just as important as how the students view what they are being taught. That problem/solution sets squarely at the local school board. Although the federal and state boards may set the guidelines, the local board implements them and uses their judgement to say what and how a teacher can tell their students “The Facts” on any subject.

David,
Thanks for the better example between the two styles. I know this subject is hitting alot of nerves, but I for one think that a student can learn about anything once they can put it in their own terms of words. Could you imagine a “Valley Girl” trying to teach a class in some Midwest town?

henry:

i guess my point was that you can have a successful career and a happy life, even if you are bad at math……

thank god i have a good accountant….

rob,
That is true, but I still bet you that today you have a better understanding of why the numbers do what they do than you did in school when a teacher said “you have to learn to do the problem this way.”

Being good at math myself, I ran into the same problem in high school when I could do most of the problems in my head while the teachers insisted that I wrote out every step of the problem. When I asked why I should do that due to my correct answer, they would only state that it was because thats the way they wanted it.

Teaching and learning should be addressed to the individual not to a peg hole that makes everyone march to the same drum. Even today, I get people amazed at the level of intellegence I have on most subjects. It seems that most people learn one skill or knowledge and can not/have not figured out how to relate that knowledge to other fields of knowledge or skills.

henry…

good point.

we’re on the same page on this topic.

I may not have as much experience of the real world as many on this board, as a matter of fact, I am a freshman in college.

However, “Opinions are like…[noses], everyone has one” :)

MY 2-CENTS
—————-

I feel that it’s ultimatly the parent’s responsibility to educate their children NOT the government. Perhaps this view originated as a concept many years ago “to provide an equal education for every child.” Unfortantly, humans have different mental capacities and learning speeds.

I feel a major flaw that our government’s schema of education is sterotyping. There should not be such rigid standards, a child should be classified by what they know, not what the average student knows. Also, the government is notorous for overlooking the intellectual students and as a result, they help detain the student into lower potential achievement. Not only are these students bored, they can possibly gain negative attributes such as laziness because they attain above average grades with minmal work. To me, the mind is like a muscle, it becomes strengthened by exercise.

The government doesn’t really look at their level of improvement, the look at their level relative to the average. If feel that the process learning is the difference between what you know now and what you knew —- a change in knowledge over a specific amount of time. Perhaps, if the schools looked at the change in knowledge they can identify and rectify the child’s weak points.

~,
You just went through the current education experience how or what would you do to open up a students ability to learn and what subjects and classes would you like to see made mandatory?

There have to be more programs where kids can get out of High School with the ability to get a descent paying job - not flipping burgers.

Those that don’t want to go on to college or can’t will then be able to make a good wage.

That is where we messed up - we tried - vocational programs. Not everyone wants to be a welder or practical nurse.

Getting entry level skills will at least give a kid a shot at a better job and possibly the chance to get to college.

Even with help from grants and loans our college system is out of reach for too many people. I can’t imagine what it will cost in 10 years when ,hopefully, my oldest starts.

Maybe the cost of college should be based on the career you plan to have. Teachers pay less - Doctors pay more. If you switch from teacher to doctor your tuition fees are adjusted accordingly so you can’t pretend you are going for something that you aren’t.

Just a thought.

I feel that it’s ultimatly the parent’s responsibility to educate their children NOT the government.

~, are you advocating home schooling? Also, the federal government has less to do with education than the individual states and counties. If you want to make a change, that’s where you should start lobbying.

Dawn, you want a higher minimum wage, more fuel efficient cars, pay cuts for CEOs, affordable healthcare, and now you want affordable college educations for our kids. You’re my kind of DemocratRepublican.

I don’t know why you have this phobia of Democrats, but you need to get over it so we can start working on these issues.

Under the Bush administration, higher education costs have risen by 35%, grants are being cut, and Republican legislators are trying to double interest rates on student loans.

Kerry’s education plan includes “a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.”

Bush, unlike you, apparently feels everything is fine on the education front.

AP,
If Bush thinks everything is fine on the education front - Why does he say that “Changes made are showing improvement, but more needs to be done.”

Now for the the rest of your post.

AP,

I’m glad you like the way I see most things - not all of course - but if people didn’t disagree on things we wouldn’t be doing this.

If you think I would be a great Democrat then you would agree that it may be just as good if I stay right where I am at. Unless of course your aim is to have a one party America??

The politics of today really blows. It is a blame the other party for everything bad and take no responsibility for it yourself problem - only the Democrats seem to be much better at it, to me.

Example…

Outsourcing and the price of oil -

These problems started before Bush ever took office - you will say that the price of oil was not $50+/barrel - not my point.

Kerry was the biggest Democrat supporter of NAFTA and Free Trade with China -
Which meant what ?

Improved economies in those countries -

Which meant what ?

Outourcing of jobs and increase in oil demand -

People talk about how Kerry uses his head and Bush doesn’t. Where was his head when he signed his name to all these agreements? Why didn’t he think about the effect they would have on the world economy once those countries needed more and more oil? Jobs were outsourced during Clinton. There should have been things done to put us ‘on the road to independence from MidEast oil’ at the same time as far as I see it. Of course you’ve heard about that hindsight thing -Now he is changing his positions on these issues too.

Part of the problem with the price is related to fear of terrorisim. About $10/barrel I’ve heard.

It is not just Bush’s fault but we don’t here about the rest of it.

Kerry says, ” Bush promised he’d call his Saudi friends…”

Example…

It is not just Bush’s fault that we are viewed the way we are around the world. That blame goes to both parties.
———
If you read some newspapers out of the Middle East they say the Iraq situation cannot be fixed by the ‘left’ or the ‘right’ in America.

Bush - will most likely not get the democracy he expected because of the mix of people in Iraq. Then explained why but didn’t say that Bush was actually failing there.

Kerry - will treat it more like a ‘Vietnam Kerry’ than an ‘Anti-War Kerry’. They say this because of his 4 year plan to get the U.S. out. They match it to the timeline of the Vietnam War. They do not like that idea at all.

—————
An Asian newspaper talking about North Korea said Bush and Kerry were both wrong in the 1st debate.

Bush - Said there weren’t any bilateral talks going on between U.S. and North Korea. There are talks like that but they are not ‘official’. They say Bush is doing it the right way.

Kerry - Said that if Kerry opens ‘official’ bilateral talks between U.S. and N.Korea it WILL mess the whole situation up. Even if the other talks still occur.

Said because of Presidential Campaign progress has slowed and won’t pick back up until 2005.
Our own election has messed things up for awhile.

Anyway… I think after this election I will go back to where I started - Independent.
People on both sides are just not trying hard enough to meet in the middle as far as I’m concerned.

One more thing.
I have a friend who was a military wife - they are retired. I think you may find her view interesting.

She believes that they ALL new that Sadaam did not have the weapons - ALL of them - Kerry, Bush, the Senate, the Congress - ALL of them. She says they all know that stuff and they aren’t fooling her when they say they didn’t.
She has been around alot longer than I and I have never had a doubt about her opinions on anything. She sees both sides. Weighs issues. Very smart lady. Of course I don’t always agree with her either but I respect her opinions no matter what they are.

She has a point.