August 28, 2004
Having Your Cake
Last week I wrote Hypocrisy on my personal blog. I was not the first person to point out the glaring hypocrisy in John Kerry and his camp calling for the end of SBVT ads and accusations coordination between Bush’s campaign and the 527 group, nor have I been the last. But a recent look into the history of Kerry and his use of the 527’s brings even more of this to light.
Let’s look at some facts:
Another 527 organization called “Americans for Jobs, Heath Care and Progressive Values” aired ads attacking then Democratic front runner Howard Dean, accusing him of being incapable of fighting a war against terror since he has no military or foreign policy experience. The organization was put together by supporters and former staffers of John Kerry and Richard Gephardt.
A list of supporters included: Robert Gibbs, the group’s treasurer who just weeks before taking on that role was a campaign spokesman for John Kerry’s campaign. Leo Hindery and Daniel Abraham, the groups two biggest contributors who each gave $100,000 to the group after both had given contributions to Kerry. Others who funded the group were also giving contributions to Kerry’s campaign.
The group spent $633,000 on the ads, a third of that from Kerry supporters. Kerry’s campaign insisted there was nothing wrong with Kerry supporters to also support this group attacking his candidate. Is this another Kerry ‘flip-flop’?
But there’s more!
Jim Jordan ran the Kerry campaign until last November when he left to run both ACT and The Media Fund. Robert Gibbs is now working for ACT also. Harold Ickies advises both ACT and the DNC. Bob Bauer who use to work for Kerry until a few months ago now advises both ACT and the DNC. Zack Exley, Moveon.Org’s former organizing director now works directly for the Kerry campaign while Joe Sandler gives legal advice to both groups, the same actions that caused Ginsberg to decide to resign from the Bush campaign this week.
This, of course, ignores George Soros as well as Michael Moore who was happily moving around the Democratic National Convention recently.
And now the Kerry campaign, who knew that this group existed and was going to come after them, decided to make his Vietnam service the center of his campaign. Then when they attack and show that they are having an effect, instead of responding to and countering their accusations (something that gives them even more credibility in some minds) they go on a character assassination of decorated veterans, who may or may not be lying, and attack Bush in an attempt to make political points!
Their ‘proof’ of coordination between the Bush campaign and the SBWFT? Ben Ginsberg had given legal advice to both organizations. A friend of Carl Rove, Bob Perry, gave $200,000 to the 527 group. Another Texas Republican, Merrie Spaeth, has done public relations for the SBVFT and for the Bush administration. And retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier, a member of the Bush campaign's veterans steering committee who appears in the latest TV ads from the SBVFT and who was dismissed by the Bush campaign when this was discovered.
Now, you can either like or dislike the 527s. You can argue whether or not they deserve their free speech rights or if the McCain-Feingold laws are unconstitutional. You can call the efforts by the groups like SBVFT, moveon.org and ACT smear campaigns that are coordinated by the campaigns themselves. But, unless you are hopelessly partisan, you have to agree this is an attempt by John Kerry to “Have his cake and eat it too”.
The issue of 527s is not black and white. The choices are not simply to allow all 527s to say what they please or to allow none. I believe there is room within the system for these groups to operate, and I also believe that it is possible for the groups to go too far. The SBVFT are running absolutely innacurate ads, and it is reasonable for John Kerry and others to pursue action to prevent these types of ads from airing.
The SBVFT have the right to be heard, and they are welcome to wander the streets espousing their views, but it is reasonable to request that political ads are held to a certain standard of truthfulness. Granted, all political ads will inherently contain some “spin.” But if reasonable people are willing to get together and discuss these issues, I believe that fair practice standards could be developed which would allow for the 527s to run political ads while simultaneously requiring more accountability for honesty in order to get ads out in the mainstream press.
I get very tired of the growing tendency to ignore the nuances of situations. People are so quick to assume that someone is flip-flopping or lying or trying to “have their cake and eat it too,” but people don’t recognize that different circumstances call for different responses.
Posted by: Kathryn Knowlson at August 28, 2004 10:09 AMThere’s nothing illegal about what Ginsberg did. What makes it newsworthy is his connection to the Bush campaign. A campaign that strenously denies any connection to a group that strenuously denies that it’s partisan.
It’s like I said earlier, it’s not just that they share certain personnel, or that they get legal advice from the same people, it’s that Bush has thrown up a wall of denials about the SwiftVets being run from the oval office, trying to sound like the injured party. If a connection can be proved, it’s not only a violation of the laws that govern a 527, its also prima facie evidence that Bush is no more a straight shooter than Andrew Sullivan is a straight anything.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at August 28, 2004 10:30 AMFrom now on, anyone being represented by a lawyer should be assumed to be in cohoots with everyone else that lawyer represents. (Why not, for that matter, aslo assume that anyone who has the same doctor must have the same diseases?). This is the sort of McCarthysim and illogic the Democrats have ushered into the world in order to avoid discussing facts that contradict Kerry (all the while conveniently forgetting that their 527s and the Kerry campaign routinely swap staffers and consultants—positions which have none of the lawyer-client barriers that lawyers have).
How do we know that Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson conspired together? They have the same lawyer!
The Democrats really have become this desperate. They sacrifice even rudementary logic and intellectual honesty to cover up their candidate’s lies.
“The group spent $633,000 on the ads, a third of that from Kerry supporters. Kerry’s campaign insisted there was nothing wrong with Kerry supporters to also support this group attacking his candidate. Is this another Kerry ‘flip-flop’?”
Hmmm…. I don’t know…. I contributed to both the Kerry campaign and to the Nader/Camejo campaign, and to the Green Party. Does that make me a flip flopper? NO! That makes me ANTI-BUSH REELECTION! No flip flopping required, perfectly consistent.
But, unless you are hopelessly partisan, you have to agree this is an attempt by John Kerry to “Have his cake and eat it too”.
Yep, and I hope he enjoys every morsel. It is one thing to spin by selecting truthful phrases and quotes against one’s opponent. It is quite another to out and out lie while documented evidence and proof establish that the lies are lies, and use those lies against one’s opponent. I call that desperation without character, if not illegal.
Posted by: David R Remer at August 28, 2004 11:28 AM“There’s nothing illegal about what Ginsberg did. What makes it newsworthy is his connection to the Bush campaign. A campaign that strenously denies any connection to a group that strenuously denies that it’s partisan.”
Ahem……
The general counsel for the Kerry campaign, Bob Bauer, is also the lawyer for “America Coming Together” (nice name) a liberal group.
The chairman of the Democratic National Convention in Boston, NM Governor Bill Richardson, is an advisor to a 527 group “The New Democratic Network”
As stated above, Kerry’s former campaign manager, Jim Jordan, is now the spokesman for a 527 called “The Media Fund”
The lawyer for the Democratic National Committee, Joe Sandler, is also the lawyer for “MoveOn.org.”
Again, there is no proof that the Bush campaign is behind those ads. If you believe the “connection” theory as decribed above, you must also apply that to Kerry and the Democrats. The truth is, polical operatives jump around from cause to cause on one side to stay employed. If you don’t understand that, you are naive.
The only reason this is even a big deal now is because the shoe is on the other foot and the Democrats can’t stand it.
The only reason this is a big deal is because the Swiftboat 527 being connected to the Bush Campaign has been proved to be engaged in lies, distortion, and misrepresentation aimed at a veteran. That is why it is news. The Bush campaign and the SwiftBoat vets on the one hand claim to stand for Veteran’s interests, but they will use the tearing down and destruction of Veterans’s to accomplish their political goal. That is why it is a big deal. Pure and simple.
Posted by: David R. Remer at August 28, 2004 02:03 PMThe Swiftboat 527 is getting attention not because of its lies, but because its truth is destroying what Kerry chose as the very foundation of his candidacy. He raised the issue; for him to now say it is unfair for the Swiftees to challenge him, while his cronies go unchallenged, is the ultimate hypocrisy. He should release all of his records and get on with the big issues like national security.
Posted by: Troy at August 28, 2004 04:22 PMAnd all the 527s being connected to the Democrats engaged in “lies, distortions, and misrepresentations” aimed at Bush for the last year or more is not a big deal? It’s only a big deal now that it is happening to your candidate. Supporters of Bush have been rolling their eyes for a long time at the Move.org and Michael Moore crowd. I suggest the Democrats learn to deal with it too and stop crying.
Posted by: Aldaron at August 28, 2004 08:43 PMAlan, please write your own posts instead of cutting and pasting from other web sites.
At the very least provide a source credit (National Review). Thanks.
-Cf
Posted by: Christopher Fahey at August 29, 2004 04:55 PM> There’s nothing illegal about what Ginsberg
> did. What makes it newsworthy is his connection
> to the Bush campaign. A campaign that strenously
> denies any connection to a group that
> strenuously denies that it’s partisan.
Agreed. I’ve never thought there was anything wrong with 527’s at all, and unless a 527 was being blatantly controlled by a campaign, I don’t mind if some consultants work for both a 527 and a campaign.
What I condemn is when the Bush Administration lies about not having any connections to the 527 when it’s patently obvious that they do. I also condemn the lies being perpetuated by the SBVT group.
-Cf
Posted by: Christopher Fahey at August 29, 2004 05:22 PMCan’t argue with facts Farley, but I didn’t get them there. I’d worry more about your own posts as they are more likely to be problematic with facts. Only someone like you could be absolutely positive about the connection between 527s and Republicans and totally dismissive of 527s and Democrats. They all play the game. Rational and reasonable people understand that.
Posted by: Aldaron at August 30, 2004 08:00 AMAldaron, you stated that “They all play the game;” however you fail to see the difference between legitimate arguments and ones that are using their status of 527 to promote the feelings of hate and discontent over the issues.
Would you say it is ok for someone to use their 527 to promote the idea that Bush is using his reborn again christain status to promote the agenda of the devil? Due to the fact that the right wing talking heads have used hate tactics in the last four years to bring shame to others is it fair for the left wing talking heads to point out the fact that Bush’s party has giving the top 20% income earners every break in the world while surpressing the middle class and working poor? How about the fact that his family is in bed with the Saudia Government and had planned 9/11 so they could take over Iraq?
The reason the 527’s were designed was to give groups the right to get their point of view on issues heard. However, the swift boat vets have used their non profit organization to stir up the oppressed feelings of hate and discourse that engulfed this nation in the early 70’s.
Read your hate laws. This group can be criminally charged if the lawyers wanted to. Bush better take care, for these charges can wait until after the elections to be brought. I have no problem with 527’s stating their side of the issue, but I do have a serious problem with any group using the media to boost their hidden agenda no matter how worthy or just they think their cause is.
Posted by: Henry Schlatman at August 30, 2004 12:56 PMRead your hate laws. This group can be criminally charged if the lawyers wanted to. Bush better take care, for these charges can wait until after the elections to be brought. I have no problem with 527’s stating their side of the issue, but I do have a serious problem with any group using the media to boost their hidden agenda no matter how worthy or just they think their cause is.
Excuse me? Are you really that partisan that you can sit and claim that a group of veterans who feel that Kerry is lying about his service and are upset with the hate HE stirred up in the 1970s against Vietnam Veterans are violating some hate laws by making their opinions known?
Please, I want to you to reply to this comment with the exact section of the hate law code that shows they are violating the law. If you don’t (or more likely can’t) then you need to learn to research things a little more before making VERY inflamatory accusations.
It’s that type of attitude that really rubs me the wrong way. Here is a CLEAR case of the left planning on cashing in on a loophole and when someone dares use the same tactics they were using, they cry foul and start attacking the character of decorated veterans for doing what? For attacking the character of a decorated veteran! It’s the same old attitude ‘It’s all ok as long as the end result is in our favor!’.
Either you agree with the 527s and what they are doing or you don’t. There is no definate proof that the SBVFT are lying, there are hints and suppositions, but that is not the same. The ‘official record’ is touted quite often, but that may have been written based on Kerry’s reports, so if he is lying maybe the record is? And you’re going to now say that all official military documents regarding Vietnam are 100% correct? I bet not, only when it suits you. And Thurlow is charged to be unreliable because he is lying. Except he isn’t lying, he’s saying that he got is medal under false pretenses, the same as Kerry.
Then when someone not affiliated with the group comes out and says that he was running the boat on Kerry’s mission regarding his first purple heart, as well as the doctor who treated him, saying that there was no enemy fire, you quitely ignore it as being ‘more of the same’ without even examining the possible validity of it.
The TRUTH is that we may never know the TRUTH. We have the word of a handful of people against the word of another group of people. Everyone has to listen to both sides and determine which side they believe.
But like always, anyone questioning a liberal is considered an Evil Liar and it’s ok to completely and totally run them into the groud for the Common Good. It’s THAT attitude that turns middle america against the liberals, but they never can figure it out. Instead they make movies about how ‘middle america’ are just a bunch of stupid yokels who should be ignored.
Posted by: Rhinehold at August 30, 2004 11:00 PM
