Third Party & Independents: Archives

Nice piece Mr. Martin. Like David, you pointed out a lot of important facets of where our country is headed althought your’s is not as dire as Paul Krugman’s. He believes it is possible for us to be headed into an Argentinian-like situation - something I believe as well.

But as a side note to go along with David’s piece, do you think it is possible for an act to be passed that limits the amount of one party to be represented in congress? e.g. a cuttoff of about 57-58 representatives of a certain party so as to not allow a large voting block and thus allow bills to be passed at the whim of the majority party.

We give big business too much credit. They are only getting what they want because we’re letting them. We’re letting the Republicans set the pure economics paradigm as the means by which these things are judged.

Until we can convince people that their interactions with other people, their community, their economy involve more than just taxes and pocket books, the Republicans will retain power.

The Republicans are winning because a large section of the public wants them to win, larger than any other competing section. They aren’t simply winning because the corporations want them to, they’re doing so because the people who show up at the polls exceed the people on our side, and because our people are compromizing in their favor.

If we do not counteract this, by bringing our people out in strength, or by drawing their support away, they will remain in power. We must earn the advancement of our policies or else watch ourselves get defeated over and over again.

As I’ve said before, we need to show the special interests AND the candidates whose boss. And then, we need to make it clear to them that we will not simply be content with a reader of signs and omens in the polls, but that we wish for people with strong creative minds to deal with our problems, and work in our interests

Oh, and about that idea that Adam put up, I don’t think telling people there’s a limit to the number of candidates that can be elected to legislature from a certain party will magically solve things. I think it’s fairly anti-democratic and will frustrate voters more than it empowers them.

Oh, by all means, I agree with you. It is anti-democratic to an extent, but at the same time it seems to me like a necessary measure.

We should all remember in discussions like these what Larry Hardiman once said, “The word ‘politics’ is derived from the word ‘poly’, meaning ‘many’, and the word ‘ticks’, meaning ‘blood sucking parasites’.”

You know they just gave themselves a raise for the marvelous job they are doing? Yep, that’s politics.

Big Ol’ Grin!

Look, you can tell us all that we’re dupes, or you can tell them, and try to make a campaign issue out of it. Start putting out issue ads, challenging the voter’s assumptions. start small if you have to, but start doing that. Until you get the public on your side, nothing you do will have any good effect. You will only be a force for division for those who run from center to left.

My brother has a term for it: Circular firing squad. Everybody in our wing of the political spectrum is shooting down everybody else’s ideas, everybody else’s candidacy. Right now, the Republicans are united, in appearance at least, and are so across a wide spectrum of different coalitions. And right now, they are in power. Is that coincidence?

Your problem is that you look at politics as being dictated by a powerful few. What you don’t understand is that even powerful interests depend on the good will of the people. Even in the days of Emperors and Kings, keeping the people happy, or at least distracted was a major priority for those who governed. History is littered with the corpses of leaders who lost the trust and the support of the people. Democracy has just made that process less bloody, and more frequent.

So, if you want political power, you must be willing to let go of whatever elitist appearances you might have, and be willing to deal with people on their level. Don’t tell them simply that industry is polluting- give examples. Specific ones. Scary ones. If your opponents call you on scare tactics ask them what their response would be if they or a loved one were afflicted with the symptoms of whatever malady that pollution causes. Make the results of what industry does concrete for people.

Also, research the relative expense of pollution controls, and provide the people with an idea of just how small the true impact of those measure are. Failing that (that is, if they are expensive) start bring up the expenses of people in the community made ill by such stuff, and claim the cost is being passed on to the people.

Keep your facts straight. Your strength will be in your ability to make a ironclad case for regulation, sufficient to overcome people’s current anti-authoritarian bias.

Make no mistake- you will not achieve your power without extensive efforts to persuade the public. You do not want to wait long enough for the tides to naturally turn your way.

And please, stop shooting yourself in the foot by opposing Democrats. Do you think that Al Gore would have tried to pass the crap that Bush has? You people chose the greater of the two evils to protest the lesser of them.

Adam, Congress would never agree to such a proposal, nor would I ever endorse it.

Stephen, your comments above are symptomatic of the US vs. THEM perspective that divides the centrist majority into minority factions. I live in Republican heartland (central Texas) and I have found most of my neighbors, including the Pres. of the county Republican club, very fine people. After tellin’ my Pres. neighbor that I was working with the Democrats and Independents to pass a water conservation district, which the Republicans opposed, he invited me to his club. I am 53 with a pony tail and full gray beard and often wear beads. To this day, he still waves to me every morning as he drives by my daughter and I who are waiting for her school bus.

The invitation was not designed to convert me, (he knows how futile that would be), it was just Texas neighborly hospitality. The fact of the matter is most folks are not aware of what is happening politically, lack the historical, political, and current events education to understand much of what is written politically.

Hence, the need and longevity of the two major party system. It is far easier to affiliate with a party than it is to distinguish candidates on the basis of a couple dozen different issues.

The problem is not the Republicans as people, nor the Democrats, the problem is both the lack of education and interest in politics by the public at large, except for a couple days before the polls open, and the two party structure itself.

It won’t make any difference if the Democrats win. The problems with our government won’t change one iota. Priorities will change, that is all. The systemic problems will remain, and they portend the demise of our great society. Not which party happens to be the fad of the day.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and since I don’t have millions or hold a political office, I think we would both agree this opinion isn’t worth much to anyone but me and my daughter. :) Sure feels good to still be free to express it though. My daughter of course will have to pay a tax to express her opinion on the internet in a few years. She is not pleased. Not pleased at all at that prospect, and she is just a teenager.

The GOP has the gravity of their logic pulling at our attempts to appease their current constituents with lesser, toned-down versions of their policies. As long as our policies and our attitudes seem that way, or seem like fringe beliefs, and not mainstream concerns, we will lose.

The Republicans have the advantage of seeing the baby boomer children mature in their time, which means that a great many of the kids who grew up did so in the Reagan and Bush era, and also in the period that represented the high point of social libertarian ethic- do what you want, when you want, how you want. It’s not the good-old family values that appeal to these people, it’s the lack of any kind of imposed order on their lives, as long as it doesn’t deal with loss of property or life.

In short, the Republican agenda feeds on the decadence of this country’s culture. That’s the big secret, the unspoken truth of it. If we want to shift the balance back towards the left, we will have to do it by convincing people that a lack of regulation and environmental controls is a threat to their lives and their property. We have to rebuild their sense of social interdependence, and hearken onto it as touchstone of the order that my generation so missed during our lives.

Otherwise, you have an uphill battle against all kinds of special interests who are perfectly fine with a decadent system, and a decadent public.

I am a mix of Conservative and Liberal, so I see the potential flaws across the board. I wish to see both ends of the American political spectrum approach things with more concern for realities of public affairs, and less for the image of them. I lean to the left because I feel they live up to the principles that I feel I share with them, more than the Republican live up the conservative principles I hold dear.

Right now, It is my opinion that the Republicans are making a mess out of our government and our public policies. They aren’t letting the facts get in the way of their favorite theories, and it is costing us. When somebody is making a mess like that, it is my attitude that you do your best to take them to task and hold them accountable for them.

That means we must appeal to those who are in the position to hold them accountable, and state our case in no uncertain terms. Otherwise, our efforts will fail to inspire the kind of real change we’re looking for.

We must set our hooks into the public’s imagination, and catch their interest. Follow a bill through the legislature, and show people how the influencing forces in politic twist and tear at good public policy. Show people what’s happening to their interests, don’t just tell them. We have to have get the heart back into the nation’s conception of public and civic duty, because otherwise, nobody will care about the imbalance of power.

We share many of the same concerns and ideas, Stephen. I think catching the public’s interest and hooking them into the habit of political awareness and participation, has to begin in school, grade school, and continue throughout the educational curriculum through the baccalaureate level. That is the only way I can envision it occuring.

But, vouchers will end public education and then each school board can teach their own parochial bias or not teach politics at all. Not sure what impact that would have.

It’s over folks, - it’s been over for decades. Corporations and the largest Spec. Interests have already won. We should have revolted in the 50s but we were comfortable as cowards, dim-wits and apologists.

Don’t you people even listen to the political leaders when they speak? It’s on the wall folks. It IS a New World Order and, unfortunately, you are not invited to voice your opinion. Why do you think China is buying our media outlets??? Greed trumps ideals and the most poweful politicians happen to be neck-deep in corporations. Of course they find a way in their own minds to justify their treason and pass the brain-wash down to their offsprings to keep the dynastys’ momentum in-tact.

By not rebelling when we knew what was going down, it allowed the elite to anchor themselves in power and oppress the rest of us. Now all the systems are locked in-place to quell dissent and political views not conducive to the ideals of the few.

I blame pacifists and all the cowards in the public eye who have been afraid to question authority or admit to what happened to democracy. Nonetheless, welcome to your slavery, you may want to get out of the U.S. while the getting is good (unless you are already wealthy dynasty)

Jefferson would have puked at this vision.

Thanks,

G’ Day