Why Blame Trump for Sayoc? - The Violent Rhetoric is Everywhere

If you had asked Oliver Stone to come up with an idea for a crazed alt-right unabomber you couldn’t have done better than what reality apparently has served up. Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr. is straight out of one of those creepy assassin films from the little we know about him so far.

He is a 56 year old bodybuilder. A (former please Lord) stripper. A strip club DJ. An apparently mentally challenged man in his fifties who has been in trouble off and on with the law since the early 90's. And who has made bomb threats in the past - reportedly around 2002. According to Ronald Lowry, a lawyer who has defended him in the past, Sayor "has a limited IQ, problems with basic comprehension, a history of drug abuse and steroid abuse -- he acts like he's 14 instead of his age."

He lived in a van plastered with alt-right decals. He attacked his grandmother once who had to file charges, and yes, he's apparently a Trump supporter.

We are already witnessing the use of this pathetic madman as the direct result of President Trump's blunt and sometimes offensive rhetoric. Fortunately, in Real Clear Politics, Carl Cannon reminds us of the hateful rhetoric coming from the other side:

  • June 14, 2017: 66 year old Democrat James Hodgkinson shoots up a baseball practice of GOP members of Congress.
  • November 3, 2017: Senator Rand Paul gets his ribs cracked by neighbor Rene Boucher, a Democrat partisan who tweeted: "may Mueller's probe fry Trump's gonads."
  • July 2, 2018: Republican Party headquarters in Lincoln Nebraska are vandalized.
  • July 6, 2018: Marty Astrof - 75 - threatens GOP Rep Lee Zeldin out on Long Island and almost runs over an aide.
  • July 7, 2018: Mitch McConnell is swarmed as he leaves a restaurant as the crowd shouts "we know where you live."
  • September 6, 2018: A GOP office in Laramie, Wyoming is vandalized.
  • September 9, 2018: When a pro-Trump banner is unveiled at a showing of Frozen on Broadway, 94-year old actress Carole Cook asks: where is John Wilkes Booth when you need him?
  • On the same day in California Republican candidate Rudy Peters is almost stabbed at a fair by Farzad Faseli but the swichblade malfunctions.
  • September 20, 2018: when a caller threatens to rape an aide to Senator Susan Collins if her boss votes for Kavanaugh, Democrat Rep Eric Swallwell tweets "Boo hoo hoo" before deleting it.
  • October 7, 2018: Eric Holder corrects Michelle Obama by stating: when they go low we kick 'em.
  • October 9, 2018: Hillary claims that civility can only start when Democrats are elected again.
  • October 10, 2018: In Minnesota state rep Sara Anderson is punched by a man who she tried to stop destroying GOP yard signs while Republican candidate Shane Meckland is sucker punched at a rally.
  • October 16, 2018: Democrat "tracker" and amateur thug Mike Stark is arrested and jailed in Las Vegas after his third assault of Republican party aides or officials.

Yes, Sayoc needs to be locked away for a long, long time if he is indeed the guilty party to the terrorist threats he unleashed against Democrats. But violent rhetoric is hardly a one-sided affair nowadays.

Posted by Keeley at October 29, 2018 2:13 PM
Comments
Comment #433654

Yes, there have been crazed and violent loons inspired by political rhetoric of all stripes. Those who perpetrate the violence are accountable for their own actions.

I would expect my President, regardless of party, to recognize that at a time when such a crazed and violent loon has just sent pipe bombs to politicians and media organizations and another crazed anti-Semite has just killed a dozen Jewish people, that maybe now isn’t the time to repeat (just 8 hours ago) that our news media are the “enemy of the people” and that their reporting is somehow fake.

I don’t blame Trump directly for a single shooting or domestic terror attack. But I do blame him for not discouraging anti-Semites and other violent loons (“good people on both sides” in Charlottesville). A politician who body slams a reporter is “my kind of guy”. Etc…

I’m sure we can all come up with lists of things that people we don’t like have said that are antagonistic or even might encourage crazed loons to latch onto those words to violent ends. But none of those other people are my President.

Posted by: Stalking Horse at October 29, 2018 3:18 PM
Comment #433655

SH, do you think President Trump (the Russian puppet-traitor-fascist-nazi-rapist-sexist-corrupt-bigot) would be calling out these media outlets if they weren’t trying to blame him for the actions of these individuals? If they covered these events the same way they covered the shooting of Republicans playing softball or the ricin letters sent to him? Or if they didn’t twist what he actually said and meant about Charlottesville?

Do you really expect or want your President to sit back and say nothing as media actively campaigns against him and for his opponents?

Posted by: kctim at October 29, 2018 3:40 PM
Comment #433656

There is a difference between saying that a media outlet has misquoted him or that a media outlet should correct a fact that was wrong. Or even to continue to focus on how we can come together as a nation in the face of hate (which he has admittedly said on occasion). But to declare a newspaper or a television news network an “enemy of the people” is to tacitly condone violence against that enemy.

If a democratic leader announced that Trump supporters are “enemies of the people” that would be an irresponsible statement to make. If Obama had announced that the Tea Party was the “enemy of the people” that would have been an irresponsible statement to make.

If Trump declared that he believes there is a bias against him in the NY Times editorial board, that would be a valid opinion. If he declared the NY Times editorial board as an “enemy of the people” that would be akin to a clarion call for the crazies to start targeting those individuals.

Posted by: Stalking Horse at October 29, 2018 4:05 PM
Comment #433657

Wouldn’t racists, sexists, traitors, rapists, xenophobes, bigots, murderers etc… be examples of people acting against society as a whole?
Do you think that the media and dem leaders saying these things have led to the President and his supporters being targeted?

Posted by: kctim at October 29, 2018 4:44 PM
Comment #433661

Unfortunately, some people can’t, or refuse, to understand the meaning of words used by President Trump.

Does Stalking know what the president means by the words; “enemy of the people”? Does Staking understand what the president means when he proclaims he is a “nationalist”?

I understand what Obama meant when he referred to bringing a gun to a knife fight. I understand what Eric Holder meant with his “kick them” comment.

None of these people desire violence and none of these comments foments violence among sane people.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 29, 2018 5:15 PM
Comment #433663

Tramp is a stochastic terrorist. Wray should go to the White House and arrest him immediately.

Philipino-Italian American and fake Seminole Sayoc was a roadie for Chippendales.

“Hodgkinson shoots up a baseball practice of GOP members of Congress” and lobbyists.

The rest of that list is ridiculous. Another F rated article on a D rated website. You’re going to have to resort to the dog whistles like the last reich wing author here had to do to gin up the tin foil hat people.

Mass murdering reich wingers like the Kentucky Kroger Killer and that Soros hating nazi in Pittsburg aren’t dirt. That would be an insult to dirt. They’re the sticky bottom of a pile of dried up animal excrement.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 29, 2018 6:20 PM
Comment #433664

Show of hands please. Agree or disagree?

Much of the mainstream media has become more filled with hate, and is more likely to pander to the lowest and most base intellect, than our political class.

Much of the mainstream media promotes divisiveness among all our citizens and seeks power not granted by our constitution.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 29, 2018 6:45 PM
Comment #433665

All sides are guilty of some condoning and some inciting violence, or some mob-like behavior (including Trump and some Republicans).

However, since 2016, it appears that the vast majority of incitement of mob-like behavior, harassment (including instructions on how to do it), and violence is coming from some these Democrats (that were, or are now) in the federal government:

  • Hillary Clinton said: “You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, for what you care about,” … “That’s why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that’s when civility can start again,”
    • source: thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/410566-clinton-you-cant-be-civil-with-a-party-that-wants-to-destroy
  • former AG Eric Holder said: “When they go low, we kick them.”
    • source: www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/10/11/eric_holder_when_they_go_low_we_kick_them.html
  • CA. Representative Maxine Waters said: “If you see anybody from the [Trump] Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station — you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. Tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere!”
    • source: www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/25/maxine_waters_god_is_on_our_side.html
  • NJ. Senator Cory Booker said: “Get in their face.”
    • source: insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/28/cory-booker-pleads-supporters-get-face-congresspeople
  • Barack Obama said: “Argue with neighbors, get in their face …”,)
    • source: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYM6UjwwP90
  • Barack Obama said: “If they bring a knife, we bring a gun.”
    • source: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYM6UjwwP90
  • Nanci Pelosi condones “collateral damage” to those that disagree with Democrats:
  • More hate and mob-like behavior from the left (some that are, or have been Democrats, like those listed above within the federal government):

Also, when the Main Stream Media lies so frequently, it is close, if not deserving of the label “enemy of the people”.
For example, consider these absurd lies by the Main Stream Media:

  • A Time Report (Zeke Miller) reported that Trump had removed the bust of MLK from his White House office, and implied that Trump is a racist.
  • Dr. Joe Scarborough on MSNBC said Trump has was diagnosed with early stages of “dementia”.
  • Trump was accused by J.K. Rowling (author of Harry Potter series) of “snubbing” and not shaking the hand of a small boy’s, yet the unedited video shows Trump shaking he boy’s hand. The boy’s mother confirmed on Facebook that the accusaton was false.
  • ABC News said Trump was uncivilized when he dumped the reaminder of fish-food from a box into a pond. What the ABC News video did not show is Prime Minister Shinzo Abe dumping the remainder of his fish-food box into the pond first.
  • CNN lies about Trump failing tradition by not taking questions from the Chinese News Media at a Chinese press briefing, despite Obama also not taking any questions from the Chinese News Media at a Chinese press briefing (which was confirmed by the transcripts).
  • MSNBC lies about Trump alleging a Terror attack in Sweden, despite the real fact that Trump was referring to the spike in violent crimes (specifically, against young girls and women) in Sweden after accepting 160,000 refugees from the Middle East and Africa.
  • The Atlantic reported that Trump had a major conflict of interest about wine sales, despite the fact that wines were being sold by a company selected by the federal National Park Serivcebefore
  • Most (if not all) of the Main Stream Media has perpetuated the “Russian Collusion” allegations, despite after 1 year and 6 months, there is not evidence of collusion (nor obstruction). But, that did not stop Brian Ross at ABC News from telling a blatant lie, that “Trump ordered his staff to “make contact with the Russians”. At the time of this accusation and the accompanying video, Trump was not a candidate for President.
  • The biggest lie of the last 20 months is the fake SteelE dossier. CNN repeatedly reports that they have evidence of “collusion” and other violations by Trump. Never mind that the dossier awas funded by the DNC, which was funded by the Clinton campaign. The “Fake News Main Stream Media” was ALL over it ! Nevermind “Journalism 101 … IF you can’t verify it, don’t publish it.”
  • Then there were the 2016 election polls. What a joke that was. It certainly does not help the credibility of the “Main Stream Media”.

Where were the retractions for these blatant lies (only from 2017).
And then, many Democrats and some on the left wonder why so many people question the integrity of the “Main Stream Media”. Duh!

Show of hands please. Agree or disagree? Much of the mainstream media has become more filled with hate, and is more likely to pander to the lowest and most base intellect, than our political class.
So, I must raise my hand. I agree.

Much of the mainstream media promotes divisiveness among all our citizens and seeks power not granted by our constitution.
It is far, far more than that.

The Demorats’ reasons for what they have been doing for decades, is much, much more sinister than that.

The Democrats have (despicably) schemed for decades to use massive illegal immigration to acquire power, via more representatives in the House, based on state populations, via re-apportionment of representatives, based on population which is based on the Every-10-Year-CENSUS (which does not verify citizenship).
You can’t get much more despicable than that.

That is why Democrats have pandered (for decades) to illegal immigrants, via promises of citizenship, promises of amnesty, promises of welfare, housing, food stamps, education, etc., etc., etc.
And the vast majority of the “Main Stream Media” is complicit.

It is truly despicable, when Demorats feign compassion, but actually seek to acquire power for the Democrat party, by (despicably) luring illegal immigrants to the U.S., (despite many illegal immigrants that die along the way on their journey of thoudsands miles to the U.S.).
Hopefully, enough voters (primarily, independents) are starting to see this despicable scheme by the Democrats, and the Main Stream Media.
All other parties should finally be catching on to the Demorats’ despicable scheme; otherwise, the Republican Party, Green Party, Constitution Party, and ALL other parties are history.

Posted by: d.a.n at October 29, 2018 7:56 PM
Comment #433666

Kctim - I agree that there have been Democratic leaders that have made irresponsible statements. Maxine Waters exhortation to personally confront administration officials during their off-hours comes to mind. If I’m not mistaken, quite a few Democratic elected officials condemned her for it.

But I’m not sure that saying others do it is a great justification for our President to make irresponsible statements of his own.

RF - if a reasonably intelligent and educated individual (if I can take the liberty of labeling myself as such) needs a translator to tell me what “enemy of the people” really means when Trump says it or what he really means when he declares himself a nationalist, then maybe he would have been wiser to use less divisive language to begin with?

ohreally - I understand where you are coming from. For example, as a Jewish person, I am very uneasy with the willingness of our president and some of his supporters to not squelch the anti Semitic insinuations of Soros leading a cabal of internationalist financiers, Jewish groups funding the caravan, etc.. I will try to remain hopeful that at some point Trump will begin to consistently disavow himself of those who espouse that rheoric. That could help to change the tone of hatred permeating our politics and our larger social fabric.

Posted by: Stalking Horse at October 29, 2018 8:00 PM
Comment #433675
I understand what Obama meant when he referred to bringing a gun to a knife fight. I understand what Eric Holder meant with his “kick them” comment.

Why not explain that to D. Royal? He is using that stuff to perpetrate the big lie.

Much of the mainstream media has become more filled with hate, and is more likely to pander to the lowest and most base intellect, than our political class.

Is this a joke Royal? Unless I am mistaken and you consider the conservative media the MSM you have to be joking. What I consider to be the MSM has been targeted by Trump for simply reporting facts. He has spewed hatred against them for reporting his lies as if they were supposed to turn a blind eye to what he says as president.

Trump has many right wingers up in arms heading for the border to the war against asylum seekers. Trump has waged a campaign of fearmongering and hatred for months as he attempts to solidify his power over the country.


Lets face some facts here guys, one it has been the right wingers calling for a civil war, for a 2nd amendment answer to problems for some time now. Two it has been the right Qanoning the movement followers for over a year now. It has been the right killing people not the left. It has been the right wing crying when someone got their hat slapped off their head as if it were violence. It has been the right wing propagandist machine selling righties on the “surge in violence on the part of the left” for the past couple of months now. Yet it is the MSM that is responsible for the violence! What a bunch of f**king idiots the right wingers are falling for Trumps deflection once again.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 29, 2018 11:58 PM
Comment #433679

It seems to me that when convicted right wing terrorist tell you they listened to Trump and conservative media they know what they are talking about.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 30, 2018 12:50 AM
Comment #433702

Stalking,
I’m not trying to justify anything. The issue at hand is the rhetoric and IF we are going to address it, we have to acknowledge the source and reasoning behind it.

Posted by: kctim at October 30, 2018 8:35 AM
Comment #433718

“…then maybe he would have been wiser to use less divisive language to begin with?”

OK Stalking Horse, I will educate you a little. Did you really believe President Obama meant for his supporters to bring a gun if the opponents bring a knife? Do you really believe Eric Holder supports kicking opponents? Do you really believe Hillary Clinton is urging incivility among her followers?

President Trump has explained the meaning of “nationalist” and “enemy” as he used those words. If you failed to hear or understand his explanation; then that’s on you Pal.

The Left is horrified that President Trump defends himself against media slurs, lies, and misleading statements. And please; don’t tell me that isn’t happening.

Over ninety percent of the mainstream media is clearly anti-Trump. Is it not reasonable for anyone to defend themselves against such an onslaught?

I hear the “talking heads” muttering words such as…”it’s not presidential”. Perhaps not. What other president has ever faced two years of false charges, lies, and horrible mis-characterization about everything they think and do?

None.

I am proud that our president stands up boldly and confidently to tell the nation and the world that he believes The United States is the greatest country in the world. That he believes The United States is the greatest country ever conceived to bring liberty and freedom to its citizens and peace to the world.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2018 5:43 PM
Comment #433751

The left and its media not being able to control the narrative really is what’s behind all this, isn’t it Royal.
They just can’t stand the fact that we have a President who isn’t a politically correct nanny stater that laughs at social justice warriors.

Posted by: kctim at October 31, 2018 7:50 AM
Comment #433769

Well kctim, you are absolutely correct; the media actually considers itself the fourth branch of government. You know, the branch our Founders intended to “ride herd” on the other three branches.

The problem rises when the media is peopled with mostly political critters who can’t tell the difference between a tax and a benefit, a democratic republic and a banana republic, freedom and oppressive government regulations, or good governance and tyranny.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 31, 2018 3:12 PM
Comment #433888
j2t2 wrote: It seems to me that when convicted right wing terrorist tell you they listened to Trump and conservative media they know what they are talking about.
So, Trump is now to blame for a man who was convicted in an anti-Muslim terror plot? Should we now call for a ban on pencilz becuz thay misspell wordz, and a ban on spoons because they make people fat?

People are responsible for their own actions; no one else.
Some people (Cheaters/Blamers) always try to find someone or something else to blame.
These days, for many people, everything is Trump’s fault, and the Trump supporters’ fault.

What type of person plays the blame game:

  • the eternal “Victim”;
  • the Narcissist people; some are psychopaths and sociopaths;
  • the pathological liars;
  • the low-self-esteem people;
  • the arrogant;
  • the control freaks;
So, they seldom (if ever) can accept responsibility.

Do you recognize the Blamers’/Cheaters’ manipulative tactics:

  • they try to convince you that you are the person that is wrong;
  • they use projection to deflect from their own faults, and accuses others of those faults;
  • they don’t want to hear the truth; they use many tactics to silence you; they change the subject, and use circular and confusing arguments, obfuscations, and distractions to steer you away from the truth;
  • they move the goal posts; not only for others, but themselves when they fail, and they often try to find someone or something else to blame;
  • they use triagulation, to tap into others’ of similar ilk to take their side against those they want to manipulate;
  • they are toxic, often abusive, and often have temper tantrums; call you names (i.e. racist, fascist, Nazi, bigot, etc., etc., etc.);
  • they are controlling, and they will stoop lower and lower to acquire and maintain control;
  • they don’t want transparency, because they want the truth revealed;
  • they never accept responsibility; they are a victim, and/or it is always someone else’s fault; they expend vast amounts of energy to deny responsibility, when it would be so much easier to use that energy to become a better person;
  • These people usually have many failed relationships, and often end up alone and lonely; they should know who they are, except, it is always someone else’s fault.
The people that are blaming others (i.e. for the terrible crimes by others), are the type of person described above.

Unfortunatly, there are a lot (too many) of this type of people.
The ability to recognize it, and deal with it, is vital to the health of any individual, organization, society, and government.
There are varying degrees of dysfunction, but these people have surrendered to selfishness, laziness, envy, hatred, pride, and/or greed.
It may not be possible to ever cure these type of people, but it is important to be able to recognize who they are, and how to deal with them.
Since the Blamers/Cheaters do not like:

  • the truth (which often requires some education);
  • taking responsibility;
  • being held accountable;
  • and may be sick, or lacking virtue;
The solution is understaning the following simple formula:
  • Responsibility = Power + Virtue + Education + Transparency + Accountability ;
  • Corruption, Pain, and Misery = Power - Virtue - Education - Transparency - Accountability ;
Where (sufficient amounts of each element below are required for any responsible and successful individual, organization, society, and government):
  • Virtue = the source of moral and ethical judgment; a sense of right and wrong; a sense of caring. Virtue is not merely knowing what is right or wrong, but caring enough to do what is right; the motivation to seek the balance of Education, Transparency, Accountability, and Power required for any successful individual, organization, society, and government;
  • Education = an understanding of the importance of: Virtue, Education, Transparency, Accountability, Power, Responsibility, Corruption, and the human factor (human psychology); humans naturally seek security and prosperity with the least effort and pain, and some people will sometimes resort to dishonest, unethical, or illegal methods to obtain it; Education can also, potentially, compensate for a lack of Virtue (i.e. virtue) and the other components, if there is a recognition that doing the right thing is the best way for everyone to thrive;
  • Transparency = visibility and simplification of cleverly over-complicated processes to reveal and identify abusers, reveal the truth, create outrage, reduce opportunities for abuse, and discourage abuse and dishonesty;
  • Accountability = consequences needed to encourage law enforcement, encourage ethical behavior, and discourage abuse and dishonesty;
  • Power = force required to enforce the laws, discontinue abuses, ensure consequences, punish abusers, and discourage future abuse and dishonesty;

Posted by: d.a.n at November 3, 2018 12:49 PM
Comment #433891
“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies, and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us’ — if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election — then I think it’s going to be harder. And that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2nd.”

Barack H. Obama

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 3, 2018 2:28 PM
Comment #433892

https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/11/03/nolte-hate-video-establishment-media-smear-trump-as-nazi-virus-unfit-to-be-human/

This is the media the left listen to and actually believe it.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 3, 2018 3:10 PM
Comment #433913

https://youtu.be/FJkhUAdHqbQ

Textbook brainwashing.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 4, 2018 9:46 AM
Comment #433918

That video is funny.
Many Democrats and liberals have lost it.
And it’s all Trump’s fault for making them go crazy.

Posted by: d.a.n at November 4, 2018 12:20 PM
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