A Parade of Caravans

Remember that photograph of what was apparently an Afghan refugee on the border between perhaps Greece and Macedonia pleading in the rain with eyes that were frightening in their desperate hostility? What was he capable of? What would we be capable of under similar circumstances?

But we should not feel the obligatory guilt. The problems that created the violently desperate refugees tend to be local. Perhaps Afghanistan is a separate case, a land wracked by either war since the late 70's, or crushed under the Taliban's crazed rule in the 90's, and then torn again by war and counter-insurgencies since the longest running military adventure abroad began in the fall of 2001. But refugees can be caused by a large number of reasons, most of them having to do with violence and corruption and lack of opportunity that drives them out. From Zimbabwe to Venezuela, from Cambodia to Cuba, the reasons are many, the stable countries that offer the possibility of a stable peaceful life, relatively few.

Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador are basket cases. Should we blame America's foreign policy in the 80's? More like we should thank those who engaged in bloody conflict in Central America. Imagine them all as little Cuba's. And throw Nicaragua in as well of course. Now imagine all of them having periodic spasms of exiles fleeing on foot from the repression and hunger, rather than by boat as in the case of Cuba. In other words, as I've written in the past, it could have been far worse over the past 30 years.

They got there anyway mostly due to horrifying gang violence. But corruption and lack of opportunity also play a role. And now we have another caravan that has managed to force its way into Mexico and is heading inexorably north towards the Rio Grande. Mexican news has apparently reported that the caravan has swelled by thousands. Most likely Mexicans - or Central Americans already in Mexico - who have decided it was a good gamble and that their numbers could provide a sort of refuge for any individuals who might have a harder time of it on their own.

And one of the main reasons for that is that small groups of illegal migrants - which is what the refugees are even if they claim that the violence back home gave them no option and therefore turns them into refugees - are prey to the criminal gangs of coyotes who guide them across the river for sums of cash that are enormous given the poverty of the migrants. What better way to save on those dollar-demanding border mafia than to arrive in numbers with the world's press recording your every step? And hope you can force your way in by somehow shaming America into believing that you are in fact bona fide refugees?

President Trump has threatened to cut off aid to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador for not doing enough to prevent the caravans from leaving their countries. However, it's not at all clear whether Congress will act before the mid-terms and given that the House will likely turn Democrat, that seems a very long shot that they would cut back on aid money to those countries.

The solution has to be found in the countries themselves but that seems a long way off. The problems of gang violence and poverty and corruption that plague them require more than just money. They require values and consensus that will ensure any plan decided on is enacted wisely and resolutely over the many years it would take to see some sort of change on the ground.

That's not going to happen any time soon, one fears. And that means more caravans and more stand-offs at the southern border.

Posted by Keeley at October 23, 2018 10:20 PM
Comments
Comment #433285

The only viable solution is for us to stop encouraging this nonsense.
- ALL illegal aliens are immediately deported.
- ALL illegal aliens are barred from benefits or access to services.
- ANY person or business knowingly employing and illegal alien subject to major fines and/or prison.

Posted by: kctim at October 24, 2018 11:41 AM
Comment #433286

”. However, it’s not at all clear whether Congress will act before the mid-terms “

700 F rated articles from this “author” at this D rated website.

An American might know that Congress is not in session and will not be until after the mid-terms, when the reich wing lame ducks will attempt some kind of power grab before they’re thrown out and go back to work for the stink tanks.

Before that, tramp is going to go to Paris for the Armistice Day Centenary, where he will meet again with his boss putain. Maybe putain will give him a dog collar that he can use to shock him whenever he would find that useful.

If tramp had been allowed to rob his siblings inheritances, we might have been spared this whole mess, but maybe he would have lost all that money too. There is no other reich wing figure that would be any better than him, because they are all beholden to the same corporations and foreign globalist interests looting our country and hiding in tax havens offshore.

On the conclusion to your stupid article, why isn’t tramp building a wall between Mexico and Guatemala? The caravan started as a relatively small group of refugees, then became much larger when tramp gave them all that publicity. It’s like he needs this caravan to get as big as possible for some reason.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 24, 2018 12:56 PM
Comment #433395
kctim wrote:
    The only viable solution is for us to stop encouraging this nonsense.
  • [1] ALL illegal aliens are immediately deported. [this is unnecessary, and unnecessarily expensive; see option below]
  • [2] ALL illegal aliens are barred from benefits or access to services.
  • [3] ANY person or business knowingly employing and illegal alien subject to major fines and/or prison.

Here are a few reccommended modifications to your 3 step plan above; to make it more practical, less expensive, and less disruptive.
Consider the following 6 step plan:

  • [1] Secure the and continuously monitor the borders; the cost to do so will be far less than the $327 Billion in annual net losses due to illegal immigration; source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jan/23/donald-trump/does-immigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/ ;
  • [2] Pass laws to require eVerify (or similar service) to verify eligibility for employment in the U.S., and harshly prosecute greedy illegal employers; with harsh fines that double, triple, or quadruple for subsequent offices, with jail-time for the administrators of companies who are repeat offenders. After all, pitting U.S. citizens and illegal immigrants against each other for profits is despicable;
  • [3] Arrest and deport most (if not ALL) criminal illegal immigrants that have committed felonies; some criminal illegal immigrants are too dangerous to release since they could return; it is not necessary to deport non-criminal illegal immigrants, because they will stop coming to the U.S., and most will self-deport when all of the magnets that attract illegal immigrants to the U.S. are eliminated; deportation is expensive, so allow non-criminal illegal immigrants the opportunity to self-deport; currently, 32% of all persons in federal prison are illegal immigrants; source: http://cis.org/Huennekens/32-Federal-Inmates-Are-Aliens ;
  • [4] Protect U.S. citizens’ benefits and privileges, and deny those benefits and privileges to all illegal immigrants (i.e. jobs; welfare; food stamps; free healthcare; Medicaid; free housing; free education; driver licenses; voter registration;
  • [5] Pass a law that make the first illegal trespass of the U.S. border a felony (not merely a misdemeanor); 2nd and subsequent illegal border trespasses are already a felony; also pass a law to end “catch and release”, and incarcerate illegal immigrants (who have already violated U.S. law(s)) until their disposition is decided by the court(s); also ensure that there are sufficient resources to house and maintain illegal immigrants until their dispostion is decided by the court(s);
  • [6] ONLY after the above are implemented, consider a pathway to citizenship (not amnesty) for illegal immigrants who can prove that they were brought to the US. by a parent when very young (when less than age X1-to-X2), have been living in the U.S. for Y1-to-Y2 years, have attended U.S. schools for Z1-to-Z2 years), can pass a basic English test, and have little or no connection to the nation in which they were born (i.e. do not speak the prominent language of the nation in which they were born). That privilege does not extend to any other members or acquaintances of their family. This will be an expensive and painful process, and it won’t be perfect, but it will only get worse the longer we wait to do it.
  • [7] Deport all illegal immigrants that commit misdemeanor crimes (i.e. assualt; using fake ID; driving without a driver license, which they should not have anyway, and is therefore probably a fake license; speeding; reckless driving; disorderly conduct; vandalism; etc.);
  • [8] Carefully scrutinize all requests for asylum, and enforce the laws required to obtain asylum in the U.S. (see: www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states );

Posted by: d.a.n at October 25, 2018 10:55 PM
Comment #433443

d.a.n, we are way past the time where we can rely on illegal aliens to self deport. The cost and risk they pose causes harm to American citizens and immediate deportation upon discovery is the safest, most effective way to handle the situation.

That said, step 4 is my only concern, everything else can be hashed out and tweaked.

Posted by: kctim at October 26, 2018 9:19 AM
Comment #433545

Is there anyone on WB that believes this caravan spontaneously congealed into the mob we witness coming towards our border?

How did thousands of tyrannized dirt-poor people arrange to escape authorities with food, water, medical care, extra clothing, shoes and other bodily needs for a walking trek of over 1500 miles?

Vice President Pence revealed recently that over ten terrorist are captured every day trying to cross our border. Most are Bangladesh.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 27, 2018 3:17 PM
Comment #433552

“Vice President Pence revealed recently that over ten terrorist are captured every day trying to cross our border. Most are Bangladesh.”

Oh, for Pete’s sake! That is the worst kind of fear mongering. It is also a laughably implausible lie. Just think about it for a second. Pence is suggesting that every year we catch over 3,000 terrorists attempting to enter the US. First, Pence is referring to all people prevented from entering the US because they are on the no-fly list, among other things. That is NOT the same as being a terrorist. Second, no terrorist attacks have been launched by terrorists crossing the Southern border, never mind Bengalis terrorists. That makes no sense. No Bengali terrorist would go to Honduras, cross the border into Mexico, and successfully hide in a large group of people who do not share the culture or speak the language.

That is why Trump spreads the language of hate, claiming illegal and legal immigrants have been ‘sent’ by Mexico, that they are “criminals” and “rapists,” members of MS-13, “hardened criminals,” “no angels,” and so on.

Pence said it is “inconceivable that there are not people of Middle Eastern descent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people advancing toward our border.” There is no valid evidence to support this. He also said ““In the last fiscal year we apprehended more than 10 terrorists or suspected terrorists per day at our southern border from countries that are referred to in the lexicon as ‘other than Mexico’ ― that means from the Middle East region.”

Posted by: phx8 at October 27, 2018 6:35 PM
Comment #433567
phx8 wrote: Oh, for Pete’s sake! That is the worst kind of fear mongering… . That is why Trump spreads the language of hate, claiming illegal and legal immigrants have been “sent” by Mexico, that they are “criminals” and “rapists,” members of MS-13, “hardened criminals,” “no angels,” and so on.
  • Former MS-13 gang member says he knows of at least 10 MS-13 are in the caravan: source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6320371/Ex-member-MS-13-says-Trump-RIGHT-knows-nearly-dozen-gangsters-hiding-caravan.html
  • Over a 10-year period (2005-2014) ICE arrested approximately 4,000 MS-13 members, leaders, and associates. This represents about 13% of all gang members they arrested nationwide (31,000) during that period. 92% of the MS-13 affiliated aliens arrested were illegal aliens. Of those, 16 percent had entered illegally at least twice. Just over half of the MS-13 affiliated aliens ICE arrested were citizens of El Salvador. Among the others, 16 percent were Hondurans, 14 percent were Mexicans, and 8 percent were Guatemalans: source: https://cis.org/Fact-Sheet/Fact-Sheet-MS13-Arrests-ICE-20052014
  • President Jimmy Morales Cabrera of Guatemala at the Conference on Prosperity and Security in Central America earlier this month [OCT-2018] in Washington. While touting his country’s efforts to control drugs and gangs, he said: “We have arrested almost 100 people highly-linked to terrorist groups, specifically ISIS. We have not only detained them in our territory, they have also been deported to their countries of origin.”
  • 100 ISIS Terrorists Caught in Guatemala as Central American Caravan Heads to the U.S.: source: www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2018/10/100-isis-terrorists-caught-in-guatemala-as-central-american-caravan-heads-to-u-s/
  • Man Traveling in Illegal Caravan Confirms Trump’s Claim: Of Course There Are Criminals Here: source: townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/10/23/man-traveling-in-the-caravan-confirms-trumps-claim-of-course-there-are-criminals-here-n2531141
There are MS-13 and criminals in the caravans. The main issue is, there are (and there have been) criminals in the caravans coming to the southern U.S. border. So, phx8, apparently, has better intelligence than the federal government. phx8 conveniently searches and focuses on any potential falsehood (i.e. whether any are from the middleeast) in Trump’s and Pence’s statements, as if it somehow disqualifies the reality that there are criminals in the caravans.

At any rate, phx8 is wrong, because 100 ISIS terrorists (whether from the Middle East, or not) were caught in Guatemala, and deported (see source above).
Only a fool, affected by their rabid partisanship and hatred of Trump, would assume there are not any criminals in the caravans.

So, phx8’s comment, once again, as with most phx8’s comments and predictions, is proven to be false, and is yet another example of trying to twist the truth, no matter how ridiculous or flimsy the argument is (and obviously motivated by hatred of Trump; i.e. another case of TDS).

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 28, 2018 10:42 AM
    Comment #433568
    kctim wrote: d.a.n, we are way past the time where we can rely on illegal aliens to self deport. The cost and risk they pose causes harm to American citizens and immediate deportation upon discovery is the safest, most effective way to handle the situation.
    You may have a good point there. I was concerned about the massive deporation costs. Deporation costs, on average, about $10,854 per illegal immigrant. In 2016, ICE spent $3.2 Billion to identify, find, detain, feed, house, and remove 240,000 of at total of about 450,000 illegal immigrants (the remaining 210,000 of 450,000 were removed by the Department of Homeland Security at additional costs that are probably comparable, and estimated to be another $3 Billion).

    However, this study shows that deporation costs U.S. tax payers less than other net losses due to illegal immigration.

    • Deportation vs. the Cost of Letting Illegal Immigrants Stay: The findings of this analysis show that the average cost of a deportation is much smaller than the net fiscal drain created by the average illegal immigrant. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) reported the average deportation cost as $10,854 in FY 2016. In FY 2012, ICE removed 71 percent more aliens with a similar budget, creating an average inflation-adjusted cost of $5,915. This compares to an average lifetime net fiscal drain (taxes paid minus services used) of $65,292 for each illegal immigrant, excluding their descendants.

    kctim wrote: That said, step 4 is my only concern, everything else can be hashed out and tweaked.
    • [4] Protect U.S. citizens’ benefits and privileges, and deny those benefits and privileges to all illegal immigrants (i.e. jobs; welfare; food stamps; free healthcare; Medicaid; free housing; free education; driver licenses; voter registration;
    Why?

    After all, it is those benefits that are the major magnet that lures illegal immigrants to the U.S.
    Or, are you recommending (for humanitarian reasons) that illegal aliens should continue to receive those benefits, until they deported?

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 28, 2018 11:32 AM
    Comment #433572

    Judicial Watch? Well, if they say it, then it must be as true as this little gem:

    “ISIS is operating a camp just a few miles from El Paso, Texas…

    https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/04/isis-camp-a-few-miles-from-texas-mexican-authorities-confirm/

    It is not the first time we have seen this kind of fear mongering.

    “At least 10 ISIS fighters have been caught coming across the Mexican border in Texas” and there are “dozens more that did not get caught by the Border Patrol.”
    Duncan Hunter, GOP Congressman, 10/7/14

    The idea that 100 ISIS fighters showed up in Guatemala, or that terrorists are infiltrating a caravan, is simply not believable. A little common sense will go a long way here.

    d.a.n.,
    Suggestion: stay away from right wing conspiracy sites like Judicial Watch. Heritage is not much better. Otherwise, you’ll end up spending a week quoting from them about left wing violence, only to have a Trump supporter, the MAGAbomber, target the enemies so often attacked by Trump: two former presidents, a former Secretary of State, a former Director of the CIA, another for the NSA, a sitting Congresswoman, two US Senators, CNN, and others.

    Go with those right wing conspiracy sites and you will look utterly ridiculous. Like I said, a little common sense goes a long way, and might spare you some embarrassment.

    Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2018 1:36 PM
    Comment #433573

    phx8 must also believe sleeper cells are an impossibility and not believable either.

    Maybe spies are a figment of the CIA’s imagination, a rumor to gain funding, maybe! How can someone go into a foreign country and mix in the population and gather intelligence about that country?! It’s just unbelievable!

    Or a man pretending to be a woman! How could that be possible?! Such fantasy! C’mon d.a.n! Get with the program!

    Posted by: Weary Willie at October 28, 2018 2:05 PM
    Comment #433574
    phx8 wrote: Like I said, a little common sense goes a long way, and might spare you some embarrassment.
    Good advice.

    So, why are you not following your own advice?

    Especially, when your phx8 comments and predictions are repeatedly proven to be wrong, as they are now proved to be wrong again.
    Of course, it is supposedly a free country, and you can believe whatever you want, but don’t get upset if others don’t believe the same lies.
    phx8 complains a lot about other peoples’ facts, despite phx8’s own statements being disproved, repeatedly.

    Snopes.com wrote: WHAT’S TRUE: Guatemalan President Jimmy Morales announced in October 2018 the arrest and deportation of 100 people “highly linked to terrorist groups, specifically ISIS.”
    The 100 were deported before entering Mexico, and I never asserted they were still in the caravan.

    phx8’s circular illogic is that it makes no sense that any criminals or terrorists would see any advantages of starting in Mexico with 7000 illegal immigrants attempting to enter the U.S.A. So much for common-sense, eh?

    phx8 bot wrote: Why would a “Middle Easterner” show up in Honduras for a grueling, possibly dangerous trip of over 2,000 miles to the US border? Unless that “Middle Easterner” speaks Spanish and knows Honduran culture, that person would stick out like a sore thumb.
    It is a silly lie. It doesn’t even make sense.

    However, again, despite being proven wrong (repeatedly), phx8 tries to deflect from the larger issue, which is that there ARE criminals in the caravan, and claims all opposed to open-borders are fear-mongering, bigots, racists, xenophobes, and Nationalists.

    For example:

    phx8 previously wrote: Prejudice against immigrants among U.S. whites is NOT new …
    So what is happening today is NOT new, or some sort of intractable problem. Racism and bigotry from the rural, white crowds of Trump reflect a long American tradition of hatred.

    phx8 wrote: We have seen an unconstitutional effort to ban all Muslims from coming to this country.
    • That comment by phx8 is false, because the ban was on people from specific nations with a lot of terrorism.
    phx8 wrote: And heavens! Immigrants, legal and illegal, might vote for Democrats! LOL. Worst excuse for bigotry- ever.

    phx8 Bot wrote: Not the majority. 30% [of Americans are racist] seems about right. You might wonder how that can be possible. But we are not the first country to experience this. There are plenty of fine countries with highly developed cultures that have gone a lot farther down this path than the United States, with much worse outcomes.

    phx8 wrote: In other words, it is a lie. It is a classic example of xenophobia, and the implication with “Middle Easterners” is intended to stoke Islamophobia as well.

    phx8 wrote: Oh, for Pete’s sake! That is the worst kind of fear mongering… . That is why Trump spreads the language of hate, claiming illegal and legal immigrants have been “sent” by Mexico, that they are “criminals” and “rapists,” members of MS-13, “hardened criminals,” “no angels,” and so on.

    phx8 bot wrote: So, yeah. A U.S. President declaring ‘I’m a nationalist’ scares the crap out of anyone who knows anything about history.

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 28, 2018 3:08 PM
    Comment #433575

    WW,
    A sleeper cell is “a secretive group of spies or terrorist agents that remain inactive within a target population until ordered to act.”

    Inserting a sleeper cell into Guatemala or Honduras in order to infiltrate United States is needlessly complicated and nearly impossible to pull off. It requires the cell to fit into the local population of a Central American country, learn the language and culture, cross the border into Mexico, travel with them for a month, and then do the whole thing again as they enter the US. It runs way too many risks of being caught, and the cell cannot act until it has first traveled over 1,000 miles and taken numerous risks, including the need to hide from, or deceive Central Americans, the Mexican police, and several outlets from the American media.

    d.a.n.,
    So you believe Morales, the right wing President of Guatemala? Really? He is extremely corrupt and tight with Trump. When the US moved its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, Guatemala was second in line.

    Believe that guy as far as you can throw him. 100 ISIS terrorists in Guatemala. Honestly…

    Are there criminals in the caravan? Maybe. That is the point of providing due process at the US border. Because they are innocent until proven guilty, right?

    You write: “We have seen an unconstitutional effort to ban all Muslims from coming to this country.

    That comment by phx8 is false, because the ban was on people from specific nations with a lot of terrorism.”

    No. Maybe you don’t remember 2016. The president called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US and hastily issued an executive order without coordinating anything with anybody. It was a disaster. The ban was ruled unconstitutional. The Trump administration changed it from a Muslim ban to a ban on mostly Muslim nations in order to pass muster with the courts. It included North Korea and Venezuela (?), which is kind of a mystery. There are worse countries in Central and South America. Venezuela is political enemy of the GOP because those terrible Venezuelans won’t let Big Oil take their oil. The nerve! Senator Rubio accused the Venezuelans of cooperating with FARC and Hezbollah and becoming a narco-state.


    Posted by: phx8 at October 28, 2018 3:39 PM
    Comment #433576
    phx8 wrote: The president [Trump] called for a ban on all Muslims coming into the US and hastily issued an executive order without coordinating anything with anybody. It was a disaster.
    Not true.

    You are wrong (again), and you seem to only believe what you want to believe.

    While Trump called it a “Muslim Ban” at one point, there were no actual executive actions that stated there was a ban on Muslims.
    The fact is, it was only a ban on some people from certain nations with significant terrorism (including Libya, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, North Korea, and certain government officials in Venezuela).

    The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 on June 26 in favor of the ban, and that the President had “lawfully exercised the broad discretion granted to him” under the Immigration and Nationality Act to restrict entry to some foreign nationals in order to protect the interests of the United States.

      source: www.factcheck.org/2018/06/trumps-travel-ban-doesnt-affect-all-muslims/

    phx8 wrote: d.a.n., So you believe Morales, the right wing President of Guatemala? Really?
    Where is your proof it is a lie?
    phx8 wrote: Are there criminals in the caravan? Maybe.
    Wrong again. There ARE criminals in the caravan
    phx8 wrote: That is the point of providing due process at the US border. Because they are innocent until proven guilty, right?
    That depends.

    IF they try to illegally trespass U.S. borders, they can be deported immediatley.
    IF they lawfully apply for asylum (which will be a VERY long line), then they have the “burden-of-proof”, and seeking better economic environment is not a valid reason for asylum (see: www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states ).

    Over two hundred years of Supreme Court law have established that persons who enter the country unlawfully and bear no connections to the U.S. do not have the full scope of “affirmative constitutional” rights of a U.S. citizen. The protections that illegal immigrants have against harm are “negative liberty” rights.

    How revealing that are exultant about 7000+ illegal immigrants marching toward the U.S. borders.

    Would you prefer open-borders, and sanctuary cities and states?
    After all, it appears that the Democrat party wants that, plus the following::

    • [01]open borders; WHY? for votes via re-apportionment of representatives based on population, based on CENSUS, which does not verify citizenship;
    • [02]another amnesty like in 1989, which quadrupled the problem;
    • [03]more sanctuary cities and states;
    • [04]more state attorney generals, like A.G. Xavier Baccera (California), who threatens to prosecute anyone who assists ICE;
    • [05]more mayors like Libby Schaaf (Oakland, CA), who warns illegal immigrants before an ICE raid to arrest criminal illegal immigrants;
    • [06]pander to illegal immigrants for votes (via demographic shift for more representatives and electoral votes, because CENSUS does not verify citizenship);
    • [07]raise taxes; taxes are high enough; the federal government receives $Trillion$ already; the federal government needs to cut spending;
    • [08]to reward failure and laziness; Demorats want a nanny state with citizens increasingly dependent on the government; Democrats want more massive, corrupt, and inefficient cradle-to-grave government programs; Democrats want to try to disguise their envy and jealousy as demands fro equality;
    • [09]to disguise their desire for power for THEIR party as compassion for illegal immigrants;
    • [10]to embrace “Guilty until proven innocent”; the end of the rule-of-law;
    • [11]to encourage forcible and violent suppression of opposition (an element of fascism);
    • [12]to abolish the 2nd amendment;
    • [13]to incite violence, harassment, and mob-like behavior; for example:
      http://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 28, 2018 5:27 PM
    Comment #433577

    How revealing that phx8 is exultant about the 7000+ immigrant caravan marching toward the U.S. borders.

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 28, 2018 5:40 PM
    Comment #433578

    phx8, it’s not impossible, is it? I’ve known stupid people who try to do stupid things. I know a guy who thought he could fundamentally change the U.S.! How stupid is that?

    You’re going on the assumption there are no terrorists in a group of what could be up to 14000 people, and that assumption is based on your belief it’s just too dumb to try. That’s what’s dumb, believing it can’t happen at all and expecting everyone else to believe it also.

    It’s more naive than dumb, but you’re doing it for political reasons. That makes it dumb.

    Posted by: Weary Willie at October 28, 2018 5:40 PM
    Comment #433591

    The head of Judicial Watch, Chris Farrell, will no longer appear on the FOX Business Network. They ran a re-run on Lou Dobbs the evening of the biggest massacre of Jews on American soil in our history, and Farrell trotted out some anti-Semitic conspiracy theory involving Soros and the supposed infiltration of the State Department.

    Might not want to link those guys anymore.

    Same goes for Breitbart, a major ‘unwitting’ conduit for Russian propaganda during the 2016 campaign.

    The largest assassination attempt in American History, in which a Trump supporter intended to either intimidate or murder Trump’s enemies by decapitating the Democratic party, did provide one unintentional benefit. It set up a conspiracy trap for some of the kookier conservatives.

    The following got caught peddling conspiracy theories about how the Democrats were responsible for the MAGAbomber:

    Rush Limbaugh
    Michael Savage
    Ann Coulter
    Bill Mitchell
    Dinesh D’Souza
    Candace Owens

    https://www.newsweek.com/mail-bombs-are-false-flag-distract-hordes-illegal-aliens-claim-conservative-1186730

    Posted by: phx8 at October 29, 2018 1:03 AM
    Comment #433632

    d.a.n
    I wasn’t clear. The protection of American citizens is my only concern. Illegal aliens drain our resources and put Americans at severe risk and should not receive one cent from us.
    We could deport illegal aliens for less than a grand per criminal. We find an illegal alien, we send them back to their own country, bill the illegal alien and their country for the expense.

    Posted by: kctim at October 29, 2018 7:55 AM
    Comment #433633

    kctim,
    Agreed. Benefits for U.S. citizens should be protected. Also, an analysis shows that the average cost of a deportation is much smaller than the net fiscal drain created by the average illegal immigrant. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) reported the average deportation cost as $10,854 in FY 2016. In FY 2012, ICE removed 71 percent more aliens with a similar budget, creating an average inflation-adjusted cost of $5,915. This compares to an average lifetime net fiscal drain (taxes paid minus services used) of $65,292 for each illegal immigrant, excluding their descendants.
    source: https://cis.org/Report/Deportation-vs-Cost-Letting-Illegal-Immigrants-Stay

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 29, 2018 8:06 AM
    Comment #433634

    When a Democrat supporter, a Bernie Sanders supporter shot Steven Scalise, there were few (if any) people saying it was the Democrats’ fault.

  • How revealing that phx8 (despicably) blames Republicans and conservatives for the pipe-bomber and the shooter at the Jewish synagogue?
  • How revealing that phx8 questions the integrity of a source, but fails to disprove the credibility of the claim or issue, and still does not disprove that there are criminal illegal immigrants in the caravan (including some are members of MS-13).
  • How revealing that phx8 lies about the “travel ban” on some countries, which was not a “Muslim Ban” (despite what it was called), because the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 on June 26 in favor of the ban, and that the President had “lawfully exercised the broad discretion granted to him” under the Immigration and Nationality Act to restrict entry to some foreign nationals in order to protect the interests of the United States.
      source: www.factcheck.org/2018/06/trumps-travel-ban-doesnt-affect-all-muslims/
  • How revealing that phx8 calls people “fear mongers” and “bigots” (who have concerns about the caravan), when over a 10-year period (2005-2014) ICE arrested approximately 4,000 MS-13 members, leaders, and associates (444 per year, on average). This represents about 13% of all gang members they arrested nationwide (31,000) during that period (3,444 per year, on average). 92% of the MS-13 affiliated aliens arrested were illegal aliens. Of those, 16% had entered illegally at least twice (which is a felony). Just over 50% of the MS-13 affiliated aliens that ICE arrested were citizens of El Salvador. Among the others, 16% were Hondurans, 14% were Mexicans, and 8% were Guatemalans, 14% were Mexicans, and 8% were Guatemalans.
  • How revealing that phx8, repeatedly, calls whites Racists and Bigots:
    • phx8 previously wrote: Prejudice against immigrants among U.S. whites is NOT new … So what is happening today is NOT new, or some sort of intractable problem. Racism and bigotry from the rural, white crowds of Trump reflect a long American tradition of hatred.
    • phx8 wrote (more accusations of bigotry): And heavens! Immigrants, legal and illegal, might vote for Democrats! LOL. Worst excuse for bigotry- ever.
    • phx8 wrote (calling 30% of Amerians: racists): Not the majority. 30% [of Americans are racist] seems about right. You might wonder how that can be possible. But we are not the first country to experience this. There are plenty of fine countries with highly developed cultures that have gone a lot farther down this path than the United States, with much worse outcomes.
    • phx8 wrote: In other words, it is a lie. It is a classic example of xenophobia, and the implication with “Middle Easterners” is intended to stoke Islamophobia as well.
    • phx8 wrote: Oh, for Pete’s sake! That is the worst kind of fear mongering… . That is why Trump spreads the language of hate, claiming illegal and legal immigrants have been “sent” by Mexico, that they are “criminals” and “rapists,” members of MS-13, “hardened criminals,” “no angels,” and so on.
    • phx8 falsely wrote: We have seen an unconstitutional effort to ban all Muslims from coming to this country.
    • phx8 bot wrote: So, yeah. A U.S. President declaring “I’m a nationalist” scares the crap out of anyone who knows anything about history.
  • How revealing that phx8 is delighted about 7000+ illegal immigrants marching toward the U.S. borders.
  • Yet, phx8 expects readers to find his circular gibberish as being credible?!?
    Does phx8 really believe that his comments are helping his cause, or credibility?
    HHMmmmmm … let the readers be the judge.

    Posted by: d.a.n at October 29, 2018 8:20 AM
    Comment #433642

    The largest assassination attempt in American History?

    Then what’s it called when a leftist targets and shoots at 20 some Republicans on a ball field?

    Posted by: kctim at October 29, 2018 11:39 AM
    Comment #433653

    kctim,
    I understand you want to say ‘what about…?’ as a way of creating false equivalence, to avoid responsibility for a bomber targeting Democratic leadership. I get it.

    I do not know how many Republicans were on the field when a shooter opened fire. It was a softball team. As for the Sayoc bombs, we are up to 16, I believe, and still counting, because CNN received another one this morning. Furthermore, how do we assess the number of people targeted or endangered by mail bombs? Would a bomb only kill the person who opened it? Or anyone close? How many people would a bomb to CNN endanger? One? Twenty? And what about all the postal workers who handled the bomb?

    Were the bombs even intended to detonate in the first place? I am not clear on that. He sent more than one to Maxine Waters and at least one other person, so that suggests it was intended to kill, and not just intimidate. The problem might have been as simple as a design flaw.

    Posted by: phx8 at October 29, 2018 3:01 PM
    Comment #433659

    phx8 has joined the “flat-lined” brain-dead robo-journalists on the Left. The Russians have invaded their brains causing their zombie mouths to blame nearly everyone else for nearly everything bad that happens.

    They never tire of thrashing American culture, our Constitution, our justice system, and our people. The goal is anarchy, with a new Socialist/Communist tyranny in full control of our lives and fortunes.

    I refuse to play their game. I know many honorable, thinking, feeling, and country-loving Democrats. My Democrat friends would never, ever, speak such nonsense as comes from the keyboard of phx8 and j2t2, and the mouths of most Liberal media types.

    Posted by: Royal Flush at October 29, 2018 4:59 PM
    Comment #433705

    Phx8,
    You apparently don’t understand much of anything anymore. More than likely due to all that irrational hate.

    I don’t bring up those other random acts to avoid responsibility, I bring them up to properly assign responsibility where it truly belongs: with the individual.
    I know, you want to pretend those leftist events never happened, but they did and they are no different.

    You really want to play ‘my number is bigger?’ Sheesh.
    Supposedly there were 24 Republican congressmen at the park for practice. Not sure how we assess the number of people targeted and endangered. Family and friends, innocent bystanders and everybody else within a 1000 meters of the shooting.
    Still want to play the numbers game?

    As far as the bombs, I don’t care if they were intended to detonate or not, the guy is the same as the other nut-jobs and should never see the light of day again.

    I understand that the left can’t run on their politics, but if your hat on ‘Trump is a Russian traitor’ ‘Trump created this bomber’ and ‘Trump is behind a UFO takeover’, you should at least try not to be so blatantly hypocritical.

    Posted by: kctim at October 30, 2018 10:46 AM
    Comment #433919

    Exactly. The left is going crazy, because they really do not have much of a message. They are wanting to focus on healthcare, but Obamacare was such a disaster, and such a big lie, that makes it a hard to sell too.

    Even CNN reports that Democrat Senator of Missouri, Claire McKaskill, said the Democrats are crazy. HHMmmm… sort of like the pot calling kettle black, eh?

    It is a very hard-sell when the Democrat party wants: (01)open borders; (02)amnesty for illegal immigrants; (03)more sanctuary cities and states; (04)more illegal immigration; (05)to abolish I.C.E.; (06)higher taxes; (07)more Obamacare; (08)embrace “Guilty until proven innocent”; (09)to abolish the 2nd amendment; (10)to label anyone who disagrees as Racists, Nazis, and Fascists!

    It will be interesting to see how well that sort of message sells on 06-NOV-2018.
    It does not appear that the Democrat’s message is selling too well in Texas, where we have had near “Presidential Election” level turn-out for early voting.

    Posted by: d.a.n at November 4, 2018 1:12 PM
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