Should We Stop Speculating About Strzok & Rosenstein's Animus?

So it was just coincidence the Special Counsel Bob Mueller finally had the indictments his prosecutors have been working on and leaking to the media once at least last November, ready and in order 3 days before the Helsinki summit between Trump and Putin. As Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein helpfully told the media who asked about the timing of the 12 latest indictments of Russian spies - members of the GRU which of course is Russia’s military intel agency - who apparently hacked into DNC servers as well as DCCC servers, that it is:


important for the president to know what information was uncovered because he has to make very important decisions for the country.

There are somewhat more discrete methods of providing background to the President before a key meeting with a foreign leader. Private briefings for example. But this was not to provide advice. This was to expose and undercut. If they really have information that would cause Trump to change his approach or cancel his meeting with Putin (as Democrat Senators are unsurprisingly demanding), then might they have informed him privately well beforehand?

Yes, Rosenstein did reportedly tell the President about the indictments a few days ago, but this is no longer a counterintelligence probe that Mueller is running. If it ever truly was. It's a widespread criminal probe that no longer even bothers masquerading as a counterintelligence review. And for all those who would love to impeach the President, that's more than acceptable, almost honorable according to their view.

They hack we probe.

The DOJ and the FBI should have that written up in Latin and placed on their respective seals. And while it may one way to make a wry comment on how partisanship on both sides is making visibility of what Russia truly did - or may have done - in 2016 a little hazy, cyber hacking and long-running intel/ethics/criminal government probes are a feature of post-modern governance. Not a bug, unfortunately.

So, a day after Strzok's in-your-face slugfest in front of Congress, in which both sides showed themselves capable of zingers and in which little was achieved in terms of shedding light rather than heat on what may be a very troubling bias in the intel community and the beltway bureaucracy in general, we now have a grenade lobbed into Trump's lap just before his Monday meeting with Putin.

It's not a question of whether somehow the President deserves it because of who he is and how he governs. It's a question of whether America's republican system of government deserves this. As Supreme Court nominee Kavanaugh is relentlessly attacked for his rulings and views, as Congress and the FBI have a rhetorical blazing guns shootout when what's at stake is the credibility of the FBI and even the DOJ, as the President himself displays deep skepticism of the post WWII institutions and systems that bound the West and it's allies back together after the terrible mid-century conflicts, this is one more battle where bipartisan compromise isn't even thought of as a possibility.

Perhaps the doubts about Rosenstein and leading figures at the FBI like Strzok, is the same doubt that 9th circuit and 4th circuit judges have displayed about Trump and his travel ban.

Animus.

Oddly enough, unless we get smoking-gun compelling evidence that the key figures in the FBI and the DOJ were and maybe still are out to sabotage Trump's presidency, what we seem to have left over is trying to get a sense of their animus. That's probably a mistake. It will be very hard to prove intention, even with some of the outrageous text messages that were sent by Strzok and Page, for example. And while an overall pattern of a possible conspiracy against the president can be sketched from a broad survey of what the FBI and DOJ and perhaps other intel agencies, as well as the State Department, did during 2016 and through much of 2017, it likely won't rise to the level of indictable or impeachable (not only for presidents remember) offenses.

It would seem to someone like me that it is the case that there is perhaps more evidence of intel scheming against candidate and President Trump than there is of any collusion between Trump's campaign and Putin's regime in Moscow. But that's a hard one to prove. Right now, neither things have been proven, and so there's a lot of political theatre and speculation about Rosenstein and Strzok's animus. Just like Trump's.

Rather than getting closer to, we are getting further from any sort of closure on the Russia question.

Posted by Keeley at July 16, 2018 3:10 PM
Comments
Comment #429047

Animus again? Brush up on your Jung.

The FBI conspiracy favored trAmp over HRC in the real world, although not in the fictional soap opera written on behalf of the traitor in chief. Right wingers should watch The Young and The Restless and The Bold and The Beautiful to get their soap opera fix, instead of trying to turn the “news” into storytime.

Strzok is regarded as a national hero by everyone except the trAmp koolaid drinkers.

Matt Gaetz, seven arrests for drunk driving, is the Congressperson mentioned in the latest indictment.

Just got The Plot to Destroy Democracy: How Putin and His Spies Are Undermining America and Dismantling the West, by Malcolm Nance, today. The print size is much better than in The Plot to Hack America.

Mariia Butina was arrested yesterday in DC for acting as a foreign agent without registering, acting as a go between for Torshin with the NRA/KKK/GOP/FILTH, and joining in the right wing prayers for more guns.

https://www.emptywheel.net/

#TreasonSummit

Brennan: “Donald trAmp’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of ‘high crimes & misdemeanors.’ It was nothing short of treasonous,” “Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin.”

Posted by: ohrealy at July 16, 2018 6:29 PM
Comment #429051

You’re wrong, ohrealy.

FAKE NEWS ALERT!

Gaetz arrested once, charges dropped.

Butina’s arrest has nothing to do with the Mueller probe. Even your blunderbuss misses.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 16, 2018 8:20 PM
Comment #429054

People who are incapable of understanding the articles and comments shouldn’t be posting here. I suggest going to twitter and tweeting with the other twits.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 16, 2018 9:32 PM
Comment #429069

Keeley:

How does it feel to support a traitor? Unless you are a Russian then congrats on having an operative in the White House. Good Job!

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Comment #429095

Hey hennie…tell us why you believe what you wrote. Don’t sit there in the dark. Come out into the light and reveal your convictions.

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Posted by: sonalmathur102 at July 18, 2018 7:16 AM
Comment #429208

If anyone wants to see what conspiracy theories are being bandied about in the fever swamps of the far right, the link by dbs provides a good example.

A search makes it obvious in moments. No reputable outlet promotes this conspiracy about China being behind the hacking. Only far right fringe outlets even bother to touch this, and even then, only a few. It is a typical tactic by the far right: take a closed door meeting and then make outrageous, unverified claims by an anonymous source.

Here is an account from a reputable outlet:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/396980-former-fbi-lawyer-lisa-page-gets-closed-door-grilling-from-house

Hey, cheer up dbs. Maybe Russian bots will give the conspiracy enough of a boost to make it onto Hannity or Limbaugh.

Posted by: phx8 at July 19, 2018 11:13 AM
Comment #429209

But Mueller is doing an ‘open investigation’ and that is why all your outrageous claims from anonymous sources are verifiable?

Posted by: kctim at July 19, 2018 11:26 AM
Comment #429211

phx8, if you are so naïve to think Russia is the only one meddling in our elections then I have a tropical Island to sell you in the Artic. Russia is the only one being the MSM’s whipping post. As I have said many times before Russia has been meddling for decades, Why all the pissing and moaning now? Also since Obama knew that they, the Russians were meddling why didn’t he stop it? O I know he thought just like you that Hillary would win and all the hubbub would be swept under the rug. The American people would never know what was going on.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 19, 2018 12:12 PM
Comment #429212

The 14 characteristics of fascism:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

3. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

4. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

5. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

6. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

7. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 19, 2018 12:26 PM
Comment #429213

Umberto Eco’s version:

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

Posted by: ohrealy at July 19, 2018 12:34 PM
Comment #429221

phx8, call me bad, but I had to quit reading when i got here:


She did not answer questions from reporters entering and exiting the House Judiciary Committee’s closed spaces — and the handful of lawmakers who conducted the interview provided few details.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 19, 2018 6:34 PM
Comment #429254

Oh dbs please not Breitbart, you know they are a propaganda outlet not a factual news source. This opinion piece is wrought with myth misinformation half truths and/or outright lies that only a fascist would think to be true. The debunked claim by Kobach is proof of this.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2018 11:00 AM
Comment #429260

Hey dbs…should we make a deal with our Liberal Pals? None of us will use any “propaganda outlet” in our comments.

Well golly geeee Sarge. We can’t do that as none of our Liberal Pals are original thinkers. It wouldn’t be fair. They would go silent.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 20, 2018 4:02 PM
Comment #429273

Coming from someone whose punch line is “Well Golly geee Sarge” the intended insult about original thinking seem to have lost its bite Royal.

IMHO you have confused original thinking with myth misinformation half truths and/or outright lies so of course you look at yourself and see an original thinker whilst the rest of us see a clown with a bloated ego.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2018 9:17 PM
Comment #429300

How about this for original thinking.

I’ll bet dimes to donuts that nothing, absolutely nothing, has changed for phx8, j2t2, and ohrealy since the last election.

I’ll bet my farm their lives are moving along just as they had before the election. Their complaint stems from nothing but the endless propaganda they consume on a daily basis. It has nothing to do with any repercussions they experience personally simply because they experience none.

Like I said, nothing has changed for them in the least.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 21, 2018 3:03 PM
Comment #429302

Right, Keely, Mueller has been holding information on the Ruskie meddling and chose to make it known to the public/world days before Trump’s visit to Helsinki. If Rosenstein didn’t brief Trump on this before Trump planned the Helsinki visit then Sessions and Rosenstein should be ousted.

Have no understanding of Trumps relation with Sessions. It seems Trump is determined to let Mueller proceed to some conclusion over the next couple of years.

Seems that at some point, as the dims conspiracy gets fleshed out, Mueller will just have to quit. At this point in time Mueller looks like a fool and it can only get worse for him. He is done at this point but can’t face the music by pulling out. The last hurrah of his career and all that …

What we have witnessed is amazing in its scope and breadth. Think of all the money going in to keep the ‘unknown sources’, fake news’ bunch and wannabe pols out there continually stirring the pot.

Only one conclusion to reach. The globalists/dims were 100% sure they had it in the bag, especially after Trump won the nomination. I was 90% sure myself. It was just to far of a stretch to believe Trump, with no GOP support, could pull it out.

Multi=trillions of dollars at stake for these folks. Just go back and figure lost wages over the last 20=30 years, just one issue. The globalists were going to develop the world on the back of the US worker. They cared little for US sovereignty, trying mightily to put the North American Union in place, open borders and citizenship for anybody who could get here AND VOTE. By this time there was supposed to be enough new migrant citizens to vote to keep the gates open, forever.

Came as close as this . to happening.

Fortunately, it’s a done deal. Potential new voters are being deported. Voter rolls are being, will be scrubbed. New incomers will be given work permits without voting rights.

Well, the dims/globalists/msm/establishment and so on, haven’t given up the fight yet. Mueller is hanging in there. Sanctuary cities are determined to register non=citizens to vote, and so on … Some attempts at dividing up Calif into some 3 states to get the dim electoral vote count up. Their every breath is ‘impeach Trump’.

But, IMO, its all in vain, Its pretty much over but the shouting. Trump owns it all, lock stock and barrel. Many dems have given up and will vote GOP. That half of the country simply sold their soul to prevent change in their embedded policies and in so doing have, IMO, destroyed the dem party for years to come.

I would like to see a movement to demand the dem party be abolished, not allowed to participate in further elections and so on … Broad and deep corruption from Ex-President Obama on down. Never, have we had previous heads of state, high level agencies/depts. come out and rail at the incoming administration in the worst vile terms imaginable.

The dem party should be disbanded, outlawed soonest.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 21, 2018 3:42 PM
Comment #429303

Had Donald Trump not come along when he did, this country would be, FOREVER

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 21, 2018 3:50 PM
Comment #429304

?? Had Donald Trump not come along when he did, this country would be, FOREVER, a banana republic. Most likely, a civil war would have been waged to return to a sovereign nation.

We should all take a deep breath and realize that it is possible to send this country over the edge. Let’s encourage people to get out and vote so this never happens again.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 21, 2018 3:53 PM
Comment #429306

I have never seen such hypocrisy and violence in my 60+ years as I have seen from the left since Trump was elected.

Many people that voted for Trump were beaten and harassed by Trump haters.

A 16 year-old teenager in Texas had his MAGA hat stolen, and his Whataburger drink thrown in his face by a Trump hater. Fortunately, he was arrested.

Congressman Steve Scalise was shot, and seriously injured by a Trump hater.

Maxine Waters is publicly telling people to pursue and harass Trump supporters and members of the Trump administration.

It’s over the top.

However, I hope they keep it up.

Why?

Because I believe most voters are turned off by it.
Only the rabid Democraps of similar ilk love it.

So, Democraps … keep it up!

Posted by: d.a.n at July 21, 2018 4:58 PM
Comment #429307

I am going to do something that I normally abhor to do.
I am going to vote straight ticket: REPUBLICAN

Why?

Because Democrats are out of control, and their leadership is advocating violence against Trump supporters, beating and mistreating Trump supporters, shooting Republicans, and Maxine Waters is advocating violence against the Trump administration. But, like I stated in the previous thread, keep it up!

Posted by: d.a.n at July 21, 2018 5:15 PM
Comment #429310

phx8 seems, to me, to be a constant pink with rage, and j2t2 must be cowering in a corner, hiding from jackboot thugs coming to take him to a concentration camp where he will be thrown into a gas chamber.

That is a sickness, a mental state that isn’t normal. What else can you call it other than Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 21, 2018 6:25 PM
Comment #429314

These are the people j2t2, phx8, ohrealy, and the left support, defend, admire, and put on a pedistal…

https://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2018/07/22/nolte-hollywood-finds-child-rape-hilarious/

.. all the while, verbally and physically harassing, terminating employment, and publicly shaming those who disagree with them or have a different point of view.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2018 2:54 PM
Comment #429315

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/07/DiiVF4kXUAAJLWr.jpg

They find this funny.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 22, 2018 2:55 PM
Comment #429327

The Democrat message to voters has reached a new level of socialistic endorsement by many of their candidates.

The Clinton’s may not be far enough Left to win an election if they were running today. I believe Barack could change to accommodate nearly any political outrage calling for national socialism. I believe Obama is really a socialist. And, given power again, he could become a tyrant.

The Left needs ever more calls for socialism to attract the “something-for-nothing” crowd. That bunch is getting smaller all the time as many former Democrat hangers-on have found meaningful work. And, working changes ones mindset from being a mooch; to being a productive, caring, and important asset to the country.

As minority groups find value in work, they no longer need, or want, the Democrat Party of Socialism. Those who pay taxes on wages don’t want others mooching off their work.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 22, 2018 4:45 PM
Comment #429357

“I have never seen such hypocrisy and violence in my 60+ years as I have seen from the left since Trump was elected.”

Same in my 40+ years, d.a.n.
The worst part is that they are actually justifying it by saying those on the right deserve it because of their beliefs.

I too, for the first time ever, will be voting a straight Republican ticket.

Posted by: kctim at July 23, 2018 10:03 AM
Comment #429373

The dims lied to cover up Clinton’s communications security breach.

The dims lied in using fake/false information, paid for by Hillary and the DNC, in obtaining a FISA warrant to go after the Trump campaign.

The dims lied in accusing Trump of ‘obstruction’ with the intent to impeach.

This is the greatest assault on the U. S. Constitution in the history of the country.

The dim party should be absolved as a political party.

Security clearances for President Obama, his admin and, the heads and deputy heads of all depts/agencies during his tenure should be pulled.

Devin Nunes has provided some 42-43 names to be queried/investigated. Some will likely escape accountability but, surely, some will be held accountable for crimes against the Constitution.

Mueller should cease and desist.

Sessions should assume the duties of Dept of Justice or resign post haste.

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