Overturning Roe v. Wade May Not Matter as Much as We Think

The abortion debate - always swirling just below or just above the surface - has erupted like Mount Etna spewing anger and hate on the part of so-called reproductive rights advocates who are furious that Justice Kennedy has treasonously left the court before the 2020 elections, or even before the mid-terms.

First of all, in today's climate, abortion rights activists (an unthinkable phrase less than a generation ago when the battle was already a very, very heated one) have pushed things to the point where it is now a trade-off between an expectant mother's reproductive rights and the unborn child's right to life. But the abortion activists won't even accept the term unborn child, instead calling it an 'unwanted entity'. And taking it a step further, the "I am a Goddess" crowd who rail against religious patriarchal systems, have decide that yes, literally, a woman is a Goddess. She gets to decide if her baby lives. Always.

We can call it a baby right? No. it has to be called a fetus. And taking into account the unborn child's right to live is apparently an assault on women's health, on their "reproductive rights." Here's the Daily Beast's Erin Gloria Ryan:

With one more Supreme Court vote, the conservative minority in this country will have the power to uphold laws designed to force pregnant women into motherhood. A majority conservative court could force women who are carrying nonviable fetuses to term and deliver dead tissue that had long been suspended in the bodies of their grieving mothers. It could lead to certain forms of birth control being classified as abortifacients by state entities acting in bad faith, and contrary to medical fact. It could lead to the sort of legal environment that regularly kills women in countries with more restrictive laws. It could drive abortion--a practice as old as the human race--back underground to unsafe and unclean places.

Nothing here about how the health of a mother is linked in deep and fundamental ways with the health of her child. Yes, the father as well, but nothing on the same order.

But worse, suggesting that some form of overturning or pruning Roe v. Wade will result in dead fetuses being born is an Orwellian rhetorical assault that has little to do with the reality that would ensue if Roe v. Wade were overturned or modified as a result of an additional conservative Justice in place in Kennedy's old seat.

Roe v. Wade is, constitutionally and legally, a shoddy piece of legislation. Even liberal legal scholars have admitted that it's foundation is shaky at best. It exists because of the politics that drove the Supreme Court to consider the plight of women who wanted to have an abortion or were forced to have one and had to recur to unsafe clinics where, yes, their health was at risk.

Justice Blackmun's reasoning in 1972 - finding a right to abortion through the liberty he apparently found under the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment and the Right to Privacy - has been shredded even by those who in fact favor legalized abortion. But this means the following. If a Supreme Court with an additional conservative Justice does indeed overturn Roe v. Wade - and it's not a certainty; how would Chief Justice Roberts rule, for example? - then in short order there will be a challenge by pro-abortion groups based on what liberal legal minds think should have been the correct defense of legalized abortion.

At best, there will be a pause, before some new equilibrium is reached. And that equilibrium will surely allow at least some abortions, under far more lenient conditions than many who are joyfully hoping for an overturn of Roe v. Wade may realize. So legally, abortion does have a sort of settled precedent. It will be up to the next full SCOTUS to decide exactly what that precedent should be. Hopefully, it will be a very constrained precedent. But don't count on it.

Then there's the moral question, which is a philosophical question about who we are and what life is. Rather than add the obvious statement that someone like me, finally after way too many years of doubt, realized that unborn children are just that, let's just imagine Kevin Williamson debating Erin Gloria Ryan. And realizing that the chasm between their views is also a cultural question that society itself works out in sometimes unpleasant ways.

In other words, beyond any Supreme Court decisions on Roe v. Wade, the only way that children in the womb will be truly safe is if a great majority of us see them as that: human beings with basic inalienable rights. We're certainly not there now. And it's going to take much longer and much more than a SCOTUS overturn of R v. W. And I'm not sure we'll necessarily get there. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to persuade. As impossible as it might seem right now.

Because it may very well be that there's far more support for those beautiful and vulnerable "entities" than the media outcry suggests.

Posted by Keeley at July 2, 2018 10:20 AM
Comment #428599

If right wingers actually wanted to prevent abortions, they would work towards making birth control more easily available to everyone, but that’s not what they want. First of all they want the issue of abortion, which has been very good for them. It’s a perfect issue, protecting non-existent children against the bogey man and woman. Secondly, they’re as opposed to birth control as they are to abortion.

This “justice’ kennedy has proven himself to be as crooked as the organized crime family that has seized control of our country. I don’t believe it’s actually ever been determined that “justice” gorsuch is even a human being. He believes that humans should die for their corporate masters. He seems more like a machine. The right wing doesn’t believe in protecting life, or any child, as demonstrated most recently by the kidnappings of so many children.

Posted by: ohrealy at July 2, 2018 3:50 PM
Comment #428626

I think we’re do for a lesson of the 9th and the 10th amendments when we discuss this.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 4, 2018 12:00 AM
Comment #428627

Given ohrealy’s rant, I think I should correct my mistake to make sure everyone knows what I’m talking about.

I said, “I think we’re do…”

I meant, “I think we’re due..”

Contrary to the left, I can admit my mistakes.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 4, 2018 12:09 AM
Comment #428641

Trump tweeted:

“Just out that Obama Administration granted citizenship, during the terrible Iran Deal negotiation, to 2,500 Iranians - including to government officials. How big (and bad) is that?”

Just to be clear, this is a lie. A flat out lie. There is not a shred of truth to it. For some reason an obscure Iranian cleric in Parliament said this. FOX reported this. Trump took it as fact.

It is not a fact. It does not even make sense. Neither the Iranians or the US would go along with this for one second. It is not even a plausible lie.

Posted by: phx8 at July 4, 2018 9:58 AM
Comment #428642

There is no way to justify the internment of children as a national security threat. A state that separates children from parents as a deterrent to illegal immigration is not a state worthy of sacrifices.
Paraphrased from a USA Today editorial

Families of illegal immigrants will be detained indefinitely in internment camps being prepared by the US military. What a shameful time in American history. We are a nation of immigrants. It is hard to believe Americans died for a country that does this.

Posted by: phx8 at July 4, 2018 10:07 AM
Comment #428643

Phx8, how kids are separated from their parents, a)CRIMES that warrant incarceration. B)Military deployments (parent may not return alive) C) Death cemeteries are full of children and parents that are permanently separated. Especially our National cemeteries. The point is to those who come in ILLEGALLY you will be separated. Question for you all knowing fake fact reporter phx8, how do you know those kids are actually related to the person bringing them in?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 4, 2018 12:18 PM
Comment #428644

omigod, you are trying to justify this! What the hell is wrong with you?!

Posted by: phx8 at July 4, 2018 1:05 PM
Comment #428645

Phx8 NEWS FLASH you do something illegal you pay a price. If they came the right way they wouldn’t be separated. How about the question I asked, how do you know the kid and person entering ILLEGALLY are related?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 4, 2018 1:16 PM
Comment #428647

We all should know that congress passed these immigration laws about children and parents to dissuade them from crossing our borders illegally.

The parents bringing their children are well aware of our laws; yet they bring their children knowing they will be separated.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 4, 2018 4:06 PM
Comment #428648

You people are monsters.

Posted by: phx8 at July 4, 2018 4:16 PM
Comment #428649

You people are monsters.
Posted by: phx8 at July 4, 2018 4:16 PM


Is it monstrous to expect our nations laws, enacted by people we have chosen, to be enforced?

It is monstrous for parents to expose their children to separation by willingly, and knowingly, breaking our laws?

Most parents love their children and would never expose them to such a dangerous journey and expected end.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 4, 2018 4:24 PM
Comment #428650

Should phx8 actually desire to witness monstrous behavior; I suggest he visit an abortion clinic and watch a “late-term” abortion being performed. With a beating heart, healthy body, and crying for mamma, this infant is ripped from its mother’s womb and murdered…not separated; murdered. It’s tiny body is then harvested for organs and what remains is sliced up and discarded.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 4, 2018 4:34 PM
Comment #428651

Phx8, it’s monstrous to drag your kid hundreds of miles through dangerous territory. It’s monstrous for IDIOT left wingers to encourage such actions. It’s monstrous for an idiot left winger to blame the right for a law that an idiot left winger signed into law.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 4, 2018 5:00 PM
Comment #428712

phx8, your disgust is manufactured. If you were concerned about those children you would insist the parents not send them off alone across miles of desert, or with people who abandon them once their goal is achieved. A goal you support.

It is you and the left who are separating these children by being an accomplice to illegal activity.

Your moral outrage is completely fake.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 5, 2018 9:19 AM
Comment #428713

Notice how the left is always diverting the subject of posts to their latest talking points? They never stay on topic. They always interject their own latest faux outrage into the discussion trying to control it. The left should stay on topic and attempt to defend their point of view on the post’s subject, not change the subject to their made up outrage of the day.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 5, 2018 9:23 AM
Comment #428714

At least some actual democrats are trying to fight back against the extreme leftists who have hijacked the democratic party.


Posted by: kctim at July 5, 2018 9:45 AM
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