Families at the Border - After Flores Then What?

Where in this country do we currently detain children with their parents for weeks or months pending trial? How is that a good idea?

That would be Senator Coombs of Delaware - a Democrat if you need to be reminded. Now take this quote from Senator Rubio - and I’ll assume it’s common knowledge what side of the aisle he’s from and what state he represents:

They're going to hold families together ... and see if someone will take it to court and fight it in court, Ultimately, it would be ideal if we could back that up by passing a law.

Piece of cake, right? Just get the senators together and we'll fix what hasn't been fixed - immigration reform - for decades, since 1986 in fact. Senator Flake, for example, will be delighted to pitch in and find a commonsense compromise because his heart is full of love for this administration and as a trusted public servant he only wants to do what is right by America, before he heads for the exits. Ditto for the rest of them.

Let's remember that the Illegal Immigration and Responsibility Act of 1996 was passed by the Clinton administration and it implemented expedited removal in the case of those pleading asylum at the border. We can argue between ourselves about what constitutes a valid asylum request - do Guatemala and Honduras qualify because gang violence is increasing to fairly disturbing levels? - but the point is an immigration judge has to decide and while she or he does, the children cannot and should not be detained along with their parents and should instead be released to family members already in the USA or be kept in more humane conditions.

This a holy mess.

If you get rid of the so-called Flores settlement - which limits the conditions children can be kept in in an attempt to improve their environment - then you have to deal with the perverse choice of either separating them from their families or of allowing a de-facto BIDO or border in name only with catch-and-release as the answer in order to ensure families stay together.

Any compromise bill by the Senate on this issue has to wade through divergent views on what is an asylum seeker, and what the effect of human smuggling and drug smuggling might be on those who claim refugee status. And what a fair but just border policy should look like. There is no agreement on this. Not in the Senate. Not among the general population.

So, the choices right now are:

Keep families together in some form of detention that will extend way beyond 20 days and thus runs up against possible lawsuits based on the Flores Settlement.
Catch and release like in Obama's years and face a flood of people claiming refugee status, in which criminal activity is carefully inserted among people who obviously have good (but perhaps not valid enough) reasons to try and flee their home countries and start over again in America.

A globalized and increasingly interconnected world has not brought about increased peace and prosperity among many of its less developed members. Islamist-based terrorism, narcotics, criminal gangs, corruption, failed states - the whole list of factors swirls and suppurates and causes citizens around the world to uproot and look for something better, or at least less bad. We have had such waves of desperate immigration in the past and it has been a powerful and disrupting force throughout history.

The Senate would have to do miraculous work to quickly pass some form of compromise legislation on immigration. I don't see it happening. But maybe - while some new form of family detention is tried out at the border - they'll get there. Meanwhile the courts will soon be involved again as well. This is law-making in a battle zone. Not a good way to create legislation.

Posted by Keeley at June 22, 2018 11:14 AM
Comments
Comment #428277

What we need is the 535 toddlers we call our representatives in D. C. to get their collective S**T together and quit with the partisan BULLS**T. If not this country will in itself end up like Guatemala and Honduras.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 22, 2018 11:28 AM
Comment #428279

To see:

DIVISION Act of 1996.>> C—ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION REFORM AND IMMIGRANT
RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1996

Search for:

[[Page 110 STAT. 3009-546]]

in document:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ208/html/PLAW-104publ208.htm

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 22, 2018 12:52 PM
Comment #428280

KAP,
A majority of Congress can pass bipartisan immigration reform right now. They offered legislation in 2013, spearheaded by GOP Senator Rubio. It passed the Senate with bipartisan support. It was stopped in the Senate by the extremist faction of the GOP. That legislation would have passed the House with Democratic and Republican votes if it had been allowed on the floor.

A few months ago Senators Schumer, McCain, Durbin, Graham, Menendez, Rubio, Bennet, and Flake came up with immigration reform that had the support of both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate. When they met with Trump, he surprised the Senators by inviting hardliners to the meeting, Kelly and Miller, who were opposed to bipartisan legislation. Trump shot it down.

Last week, Trump demanded Congress act. Today, he told Congress not to bother, and wait until after the midterm elections.

Majorities can pass legislation in the both House and the Senate. It is an extremist faction in the House that is stopping everything, led by well-known racists like Steve King (R-IA).

Today, Trump also dismissed expressions of grief over children separated from their children as “phony.”

Posted by: phx8 at June 22, 2018 2:16 PM
Comment #428281

Correction, the 2013 immigration reform bill was stopped in the House by the extremist faction.

Posted by: phx8 at June 22, 2018 2:19 PM
Comment #428282

phx8, Get your head out your butt all 535 of those in congress are toddlers. If Pelosi or Schumer tell their caucus to S**T they all run to the toilets along with a few RINOS. The Reps are just as bad with their separate Caucas’. They all need a good swift kick where the sun don’t shine.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 22, 2018 2:33 PM
Comment #428283

phx8 doesn’t explain what was in the bill, he only mentions who supports it. No one can make a decision about the bill if we don’t know what’s in it. (except Pelosi)

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 22, 2018 2:34 PM
Comment #428284

Here is the Wikipedia summary of the 2013 legislation:

“The Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013 (S.744) was a proposed immigration reform bill introduced by Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) in the United States Senate [1] and co-sponsored by the other seven members of the “Gang of Eight”, a bipartisan group of U.S. Senators who wrote and negotiated the bill. It was introduced into the Senate of the 113th United States Congress on April 16, 2013.

The Senate Judiciary Committee held hearings on the bill in April 2013.[2] The bill was voted out of Committee on May 21, 2013 and was placed on the Senate calendar.[3] On June 27, 2013, the Senate passed the bill on 68-32 margin. The bill was not considered by United States House of Representatives and died in the 113th Congress.

If enacted, the bill would have made it possible for many undocumented immigrants to gain legal status and eventually citizenship. It would have increased border security by adding up to 40,000 border patrol agents. It also would have advanced talent-based immigration through a points-based immigration system. New visas had been proposed in this legislation, including a visa for entrepreneurs and a W visa for lower skilled workers.[4] It also proposed new restrictions on H1B visa program to prevent its abuse and additional visas/green-cards for students with science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) degrees from U.S. institutions. The bill also included a $1.5 billion youth jobs program and repealed the Diversity Visa Lottery in favor of prospective legal immigrants who are already in the United States.

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated this reform bill would have reduced the U.S. fiscal deficit by US$197 billion over the next ten years and by $700 billion by 2033.[5] Its report also states that, if the bill had been passed, U.S. wages would have been 0.1 percent lower in 2023 and 0.5 percent higher in 2033 than under current law.[6] The Social Security Administration said that it would help add $276 billion in revenue over the next 10 years while costing only $33 billion.”

Here is a broad description of the compromise bill proposed by Schumer to Trump:

“… hours before the government was due to shut down, the President invited Chuck Schumer, the Senate Minority Leader, to the White House for a cheeseburger. Over lunch in a small study next to the Oval Office, the two reached what Schumer later described as a deal to keep the government running—in exchange for an increase in defense spending, and massive funding for a border wall, the President would grant legal status to those immigrants who came to the U.S. as children, known as Dreamers. According to a person with knowledge of the meeting, Stephen Miller, the President’s thirty-two-year-old senior adviser, was seen lurking outside during the talks. After Schumer left, John Kelly, the White House chief of staff, told Trump that the deal was too soft on immigrants. Within hours, it was scuttled.”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-two-white-house-advisers-help-push-trump-toward-a-shutdown

There have been other proposals and other bills.

The fact is, majorities in the Senate and House can pass legislation today. It is a faction of the House GOP that prevents this, and of course, Trump. And Trump is so erratic and so unreliable, it is almost impossible to work with him as a negotiating partner.


Posted by: phx8 at June 22, 2018 3:09 PM
Comment #428285

Wasn’t the disagreement caused by the current illegals jumping ahead of legal applicants already in line?

I wonder why no one has proposed having the individual states control their own immigration policies?

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 22, 2018 4:39 PM
Comment #428308

‘It’s A Human Right’ — Mexican Presidential Candidate Calls For Mass Exodus To America

Well folks, there you have it. This crazed Liberal may be the next Mexican president. Here’s just a little taste of his lunacy.

“Obrador has previously proposed granting amnesty to Mexican drug cartels. “America is now Mexico’s social safety net, and that’s a very good deal for the Mexican ruling class,”

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/22/mexican-candidate-immigration-speech/

We can definitely count on our Liberal Pals on WB to defend this azzhole.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 23, 2018 2:00 PM
Comment #428309

“In the year to September 2017 the England and Wales crime rate increased by 14 percent over the previous year, whilst knife crime shot-up by 21 percent to 37,443 offences.

London’s murder rate temporarily overtook New York’s for the first time in March, and London Mayor Sadiq Khan has come under increasing pressure to take decisive action.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/978448/Parents-count-knives-combat-knife-crime-bloodbath

Hmmm….the Liberal alarmist must now focus on knife killing. OH; MY; what to do. Ban knifes? Demand “safe” knives?

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 23, 2018 2:20 PM
Comment #428311

When a killer slaughters 58 people and wounds 422 in 14 minutes with just a knife, I might take notice. By the way, NYC has strict gun control laws and a low murder rate for a large city.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 3:17 PM
Comment #428312

Also, be careful about confusing knife crime with knife killings. They are not the same. Most of the knife crime involves robberies.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 3:19 PM
Comment #428313

When the US faced a surge of unaccompanied minors at the border a few years ago. the Obama administration worked with Mexico and the central American countries to stem the tide. Our good relations with them paid off. International cooperation slowed the surge. Since 2008, illegal immigration has decreased, and the net migration dropped to zero at the end of the Obama administration.

Mexico may elect the most anti-American leader we have seen in a long time. Trump has worsened relations with virtually every country, including Mexico, and now, not only can we not count on former allies to help us, they may go out of their way to hurt us.

It is not just Mexico, either. The Canadian parliament just unanimously voted to condemn Trump. The Trade War is on with steel and aluminum tariffs, and if something isn’t done in the next two weeks, it will blow up with tariffs against China, and retaliatory tariffs by them against the US.

Remember my recent comment about the soy crop? The farmers are already taking it on the chin due to retaliatory tariffs by the Chinese. Soy has dropped 29%, according to one source, and that is just the tip of the ice berg.

All that ill aimed at our allies by Trump- the broken non-nuclear proliferation agreement, the withdrawal from the TPP, dropping out of the Paris Cimate Accord- will have negative consequences.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 3:28 PM
Comment #428314

One piece of good news. The DNA company 23 and Me has volunteered its testing to re-unite the mothers and fathers with the children Trump and Sessions took away. Thank goodness! The separation spread the kids across 13 states or more, and the tracking was very poor. Some may have never been re-united.

Institutionalized child abuse. Putting children in steel cages.

Yeah. Make America great again. Trump, Trump, Trump! Time for a Nobel prize!

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 3:31 PM
Comment #428315

“By the way, NYC has strict gun control laws and a low murder rate for a large city.”

No link to confirm that phx8? By the way, Chicago has strict gun control laws and the murder rate is high.

I suppose phx8 finds a difference between killing by knife versus killing by gunshot. But, dead is still dead.

The point isn’t the rise in killing by knife phx8. If you weren’t so shallow in your thinking; you would understand that criminals don’t stop killing because of gun control. They will find a weapon.

Should Mexico elect a leader intent on harming the United States, we should end all trade with them and and provide no more financial aid.

Mexico has shown over many years that they do not want illegal immigrants in their country. They want their laws obeyed. Yet, they allow illegals to pass through their country on the way to ours. That is not neighborly. That is hypocrisy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 23, 2018 3:57 PM
Comment #428316

Obviously phx8 and his Liberal Pals don’t recall all the calls for “fair” trade by previous presidents.

The difference of course is; they didn’t mean it.

If it is good for the country; you can always count on the Dems being against it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 23, 2018 4:19 PM
Comment #428317

RF,
You write: “Should Mexico elect a leader intent on harming the United States, we should end all trade with them and provide no more financial aid.”

Trump made exactly that threat at the failed G7 summit. He threatened to “stop trading” with our allies.

Stopping trade with the EU or Canada or Mexico would be an economic catastrophe. Trump seems intent on going through with it. It looks like he wants to plunge the US into another recession, a self-inflicted one, a totally unnecessary economic downturn.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

By the way, the federal deficit is estimated to top $880 billion for this fiscal year. It seems that free money from the tax cuts- Wheee!- might come with a price tag after all. It is terrible to even contemplate what will happen if Trump tanks the economy on top of those tax cuts. We will be in the worst possible position, having to raise taxes and cut spending during a downturn, which is exactly how to make a downturn much worse.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 4:41 PM
Comment #428318

How do I do it? I know what Liberals will do almost every time they have to choose between the United States and some other country or person.

I wrote this regarding the next Likely Mexican president who might grant amnesty to drug cartels to unleash them on the United States.

“We can definitely count on our Liberal Pals on WB to defend this azzhole.”

With expected fervor, phx8 sides with Mexico.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 23, 2018 4:54 PM
Comment #428319

“… phx8 sides with Mexico.”

Don’t be so weird. Read what I wrote. If you want to discuss politics, start by making sense.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 6:46 PM
Comment #428320

phx8, If our so called allies charge us a tariff and we don’t charge them, Please in all your wisdom explain how that is fair?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 23, 2018 7:33 PM
Comment #428321

KAP,
If one side could charge a tariff without consequences, that would be great. But that is never the way it happens. That is part of the reason why trade negotiations are complicated.

Individual nations need to preserve industries vital to national security. Often, they can rely on close allies. It gets more complicated, because nations produce the same goods at different cost levels, due to the cost of labor, environmental regulations, proximity to resources, and so on. It gets even more complicated because every nation has its own political blocs competing for advantage.

And yes, it gets even more complicated than that, because the relative strengths of national economies affect the strengths of their currencies, and that means countries with weaker economies have weaker currencies; their exports are cheap, but their imports are expensive. Other countries, like the US, have strong economies, so our imports are cheap, but our exports are extensive.

The US benefits the most from free trade. We have the strongest economy and our currency is the currency of last resort. It is the backstop for the currencies of the world.

That is why free trade works best. That is why negotiations are the best solution. They take a long time. They are complex. They are usually multilateral. And they involve a lot of give and take. That is why globalization works best. It is far from perfect- everyone is happy to take, but no one likes giving- but still, it beats the alternative: protectionism, the pursuit of self-interest at the expense of alliances, and the resulting trends like hyper-nationalism.

The Russians want to see protectionism. They want to see individual nations pursuing their own self-interest at the expense of alliances. That is the most advantageous situation for the Russians. They want Brexit. They want to break up the EU. They can not compete with the US as long as its system of alliances, trade agreements, and economic cooperation hold together. When the US and its allies work together, that spreads western values like democracy, freedom, liberty, and human rights.

Trump’s attacks on Mexico, Canada, the EU, and others are incredibly harmful to our long term interests. In economic terms, the tariffs will be harmful because they will inevitably result in a spiral of retaliatory tariffs. In idealistic terms, the tariffs break apart military and cultural alliances. They turn friendly relations and secure borders into hostile relationships, with nationalists like the Mexican candidate making all kinds of threats.

Like I said, hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and the Trade War will end before it spirals out of control.

Posted by: phx8 at June 23, 2018 9:32 PM
Comment #428322

Phx8, Canada charges us a tariff while we don’t charge them. If we and others want free trade both sides have to reciprocate.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 24, 2018 8:14 AM
Comment #428323

KAP,
The US has an overall trade SURPLUS with Canada. Trump lied about that. He lied to the face of the Canadian leader. He lied to his face. We do not have a deficit. We have a surplus.

Are you talking about the tariff on dairy? The US ships FAR more dairy to them than they do to us, about 5 times as much. They import 10% of their dairy. We RESTRICT dairy imports to 3%.

Plain and simple, there is no problem with this part of our trade with Canada. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying.

Posted by: phx8 at June 24, 2018 8:54 AM
Comment #428325

phx8, with your track record on FACTS I would question your sources.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 24, 2018 10:58 AM
Comment #428326

Rich, don’t hold your breath waiting for phx8 to provide facts. His idea of “facts” are those thoughts that come to him while sleeping.

United States presidents have called for fair and free trade for decades. Trading agreements were made that were neither fair or free.

President Trump has followed a policy of correcting trade defects that harm our nation and our citizens. His popularity is gaining with every positive move he campaigned on.

Here’s food for thought.

Obama blamed Bush for the economic malaise during his eight years in office and is now trying to take credit for the economic explosion during the two years of President Trump.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 24, 2018 3:26 PM
Comment #428331

R, F., EXACTLY

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 24, 2018 6:51 PM
Comment #428332
Trump lied about that. He lied to the face of the Canadian leader. He lied to his face… Anyone telling you otherwise is lying. Posted by: phx8 at June 24, 2018 8:54 AM

You’re engaging on that with an audience consisting mostly of deplorable and gullible liars. More serious is Tramp’s enabling of authoritarians around the world. China says not to listen to our media on their issues because the fuhrer says our media are liars. Same goes for Egypt, Turkey, russia and others. Tramp is a POS. Anyone who doesn’t know that is drunk, impaired or Eric Cartman.

Reading Albright’s Fascism, but I can only take a little at a time.

WGN on the kidnapped children:

Sixty-six immigrant children who were separated from their parents at the border are being housed in the Chicago area…The locations of the detention centers have not been disclosed, but the children are under the care of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services in partnership with Heartland Alliance, a licensed non-profit agency in Chicago…”These children are scared when they arrive at our doors,” said Evelyn Diaz, president of the agency…Heartland Alliance said it has managed to locate some parents being held at detention facilities across the country, but given the lack of information the agency has been getting from the federal government, it will be a slow process to reunify families.

Tribune

two separate lawsuits were filed Wednesday in federal court against Jeff Sessions and Heartland Alliance, a nonprofit that assists immigrants with housing and legal assistance, after two unrelated boys, ages 9 and 15, fleeing violence in Brazil were removed from their fathers’ care last month, according to the complaint. Officials at a border facility told the fathers that they would be separated from their children for a few days, but now both men are being held in different detention centers in the Southwest and facing criminal charges while their children are being held in one of Heartland’s nine shelters in Chicago

Review of Heartland:

Their ignorance, negligence and focus on exploitation lead to the deaths of several of my friends:
J.. was tricked into doing a multi-page spread praising them in return for the promise of rushed diabetic services; he never receive those services and died soon after; …This appears to primarily be a “get some experience for your resume” career center where staff practice their “skills” on homeless and at risk individuals. Welfare fraud looks to be a large part of this agencies practice, which is common among low-income focused agencies.

Posted by: ohrealy at June 24, 2018 7:51 PM
Comment #428333

ohrealy,
You write: “You’re engaging on that with an audience consisting mostly of deplorable and gullible liars.”

I know.

Pictures speak louder than words. Avenatti is representing whistleblowers from ICE, and he is posting pictures from inside a detention center. They are hard to take. So far we have only seen photos from detention centers housing boys ages 11-17. The Trump administration has gone to great lengths to prevent any pictures from coming out of the centers where they keep the babies and the little girls. Now… Here we go.

The moral depravity of this is beyond words.

But this is what authoritarians do. They look for scapegoats- Jews, blacks, or in this case, illegal immigrants. The condemn the free press as “the enemy of the people.” They attack the criminal justice system- in this case, the DOJ, FBI, and the Mueller investigation. Meanwhile, the authoritarian demands loyalty. It is much more important than competency. In this case, we see high turnover, blatant corruption, and incredible incompetency every time they try to implement a plan.

Posted by: phx8 at June 24, 2018 9:41 PM
Comment #428334

Phx8, when you mentioned the name Avenatti I knew the story was a hoax. Sure Avanatti may be representing a couple of immigrants after all he needs all the money he can get but those kids are being treated and cared for exellently. Heck even better then our inner city kids are from what little was on the news. I wouldn’t let some idiot media troll in those places either. Those kids have been traumatized enough being dragged hundreds of miles by someone who may not even be related why have some A$$HOLE media troll traumatize them more.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 24, 2018 11:32 PM
Comment #428378

phx8,
you have a good command of the facts and I appreciate your sharing that.

Posted by: Schwamp at June 25, 2018 1:41 PM
Comment #428380

A majority of voting Americans polled are in favor of the wall. They believe it is the answer to illegal immigration.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2018 3:56 PM
Comment #428381

Schwamp,
Thank you!

RF,
There are a LOT of polls about the wall, and they all show Americans opposing a wall: Pew 62-35% against, A Stanford poll of Californians showing they are against, and the most recent one, Gallup, with 57% against. Texans oppose it too:

“… most Texas voters oppose a wall being built on the border, with 53 percent expressing opposition to it and 43 percent in favor…”

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/poll-says-texans-support-sending-troops-border/

Btw, how do you build a wall along the Rio Grande? You can’t build it in the middle. You can’t build it on our side because that would cede a major river to Mexico. You can’t build it on their side because that belongs to Mexico. It doesn’t take a lot of smarts to figure out a wall is a really stupid idea.

Every congressman representing a district bordering the southern border opposes it, whether Republican or Democrat.

The only exception among the polls is Rasmussen, a notoriously unreliable, pro-Republicans poll, and even it shows only 52% favor the wall. By the way, if you are wondering why Rasmussen is so unreliable, it is actually pretty simple. They only poll land lines. 51% of people do not own land lines. The remaining people who do still own them tend to be older and less technically savvy, which could be interpreted… well, I will let you fill the rest of that in.

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2018 4:21 PM
Comment #428382

Sorry to disappoint you phx8. My info did not come from Rasmussen. And, I don’t put much stock in polls. However, because you and most Liberals seem to live and die by polls; I will share this one.

CBS Poll: Most Americans Want Illegal Alien Families Either Deported or Detained

“Today, New York City based political commentator, Ryan Girdusky, pointed out a statistic from a CBS poll released today that may surprise some Democratic officials – most Americans want parents and children who enter America illegally kept together as a unit, but prefer that the entire family is either detained or deported after they are caught crossing the border into America. In fact, just 21% of Americans believe that these illegal aliens and their offspring should be released into American streets.

On the Wall…see question #32 from the poll.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByVu4fDHYJgVTHVnZjg5R0JXQmxVNi1la0IzX1o2X0RTZ09j/view

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2018 5:20 PM
Comment #428383

Ooops…here’s the link to the quote.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timothymeads/2018/06/24/cbs-poll-51-of-americans-believe-a-border-wall-is-a-good-idea-n2494000

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2018 5:24 PM
Comment #428384

RF wrote: “Obama blamed Bush for the economic malaise during his eight years in office and is now trying to take credit for the economic explosion during the two years of President Trump.”

Economic malaise? Oh! Is that what you call it? So, when the stock market drops 50%, housing prices crash, 600,000 jobs are lost in a month, and large financial institutions fold, it is just “economic malaise” and assigning responsibility is laying blame? I see.

Here are a few hard numbers compiled by a liberal commenter, but available anywhere:

Increase in Dow Jones under Trump through today: 22.3%
Increase under Obama at same point in his presidency: 27.6%

A more accurate measure is the S&P:
Percent increase in S&P 500 under Trump: 19.6%
Percent increase under Obama: 33.6%

Historically, Democratic administrations significantly outperform Republican administrations on the economy, whether it is the S&P (9.7 vs 6.7%), job creation, GDP, unemployment, and annual deficit spending.

Everyone remember how corporate tax cuts were supposed to help working people? At Harley Davidson, they laid off workers and put the money into a huge stock buy back. Because of the tariffs, they are going to move some of their production and jobs to the EU. No reason to export if they face retaliatory tariffs. Just manufacture some goods there, and some here.

Sadly, this will not work out for farmers, who are being specifically targeted by China, the EU, Canada, and Mexico. They can’t just lay off people and grow abroad. Since farmers in Iowa, rural Illinois, Wisconsin, and other states are viewed as Trump supporters, they are going to take the brunt of the Trade War. But to some extent, we will all suffer the consequences.

Stock market tanked pretty hard today on Trade War news about China and Treasury Department policy. There is still about two weeks to head this thing off, but the Treasury Department announcement made that less likely. Let’s hope cooler heads prevail. If not, Katie bar the door.

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2018 5:33 PM
Comment #428385

phx8 actually believes that, given the choice, Americans would return to the Obama economy.

Listen Pal, do you hear any Democrats running on that idea? I sure don’t.

I wonder why phx8 has not responded to the poll I linked which refutes his claims.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 25, 2018 6:01 PM
Comment #428386

Phx8 gets his facts from the latest talking points R. F. Real facts he dismisses.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at June 25, 2018 6:04 PM
Comment #428387

Sen. Mark Warner (VA), “If you think you’ve seen wild stuff so far, buckle up. It’s going to be a wild couple of months,” referring to the Mueller investigation.

pdx8, Right wingers can’t do the maths, can’t count, and can’t understand even the simplest of economic concepts. I moved back to Chicagoland after the GHWB first oil war slump. Every “conservative” POTUS causes a recession. It’s not accidental. The current POS is trying to bankrupt the country. He likes bankruptcy, and is too stupid to understand who pays for the bankruptcy. All he cares about is that it’s not him who pays.

The previous “conservative” candidate was Romney, whose was not that different:

https://nypost.com/2017/09/21/bain-capital-has-now-plunged-two-toy-retailers-into-bankruptcy/

Bain and its co-investors had the retailer borrow $85 million to pay the firm and its co-investors a dividend — a move that left the chain, which had been generating steady earnings, strapped for cash as deepening price cuts at Walmart lured more shoppers away from malls. In that case, Bain’s cash grab left it with a profit on its investment, despite the fact that 86-year-old KB Toys got liquidated in 2008.

That’s “conservative” economics, loot and bankrupt.

George Will had an idea. Build “The Wall” between Mexico and Guatemala. Racists keep referring to all immigrants at the southern border as Mexicans, because that’s part of the dog-whistle they’ve heard so often. A person who loves to hear the dog whistle is a dog.

Posted by: ohrealy at June 25, 2018 6:34 PM
Comment #428388

RF,
“I wonder why phx8 has not responded to the poll I linked which refutes his claims.”

First, you did not post a link the first time you referred to it. I had to look it up. Next, you cited a CBS poll. Why don’t you tell everyone how that majority broke down? LOL.

“phx8 actually believes that, given the choice, Americans would return to the Obama economy.”

We never left it. The trends are intact. The only major changes have been the tax cut and the Trade War. It is still too early to say what will happen, although we have seen a few early indications. The projection for the 2018 fiscal year federal budget deficit is over $880 billion, a BIG increase. The next year and from there on in, it will exceed $1 trillion, and that is the rosy scenario. That is if everything goes well. As for the Trade War, we are still in the early stages. We will know more in two weeks. But let’s remember Trump said “trade wars are good, and easy to win.” (3/2/18)

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2018 9:31 PM
Comment #428389

ohrealy,
We could actually, you know, work and coordinate with governments of Central America. What a concept.

Posted by: phx8 at June 25, 2018 9:33 PM
Comment #428411

phx8 loves “singing in the rain” cause it sure is raining on the Democrats parade. Not a single candidate is running to bring back the Obama malaise, the constant berating of America, and the horrible deals with other nations made in our name.

We love Maxine Waters. She is worth millions in advertising for the harm she is doing to Liberals. Americans now see the real face of Liberal hate.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 26, 2018 3:22 PM
Comment #428428

You’re right, Royal Flush.

The Democratic party is standing naked in front of the entire nation. They can’t contain their rage, and it’s obvious. Imagine being led by these people!

Think about this! The behavior of the Democratics isn’t new. They’ve been getting away with these tactics for decades, even centuries. Remember how it used to be “Off with their heads!”? The Democratics have been offing people’s reputation and careers as a matter of course for decades. We’ve only now been able to see how they do it.

They set up news stories months in advance. They tar their opponents with Machiavellian tactics by creating issues around innocent victims. They take months putting the pieces into place.

Ask yourselves how many times have the Democratics orchestrated these sting operations, and, with the willingness of the MSM, slandered and maligned the opposition standing in the way of their current pet peeve?

I think they finally got caught! The internet is exposing how the media is white washing the various violations. The MSM is losing credibility because of it.

It’s obvious now how the Democratic party operates. What’s sad is realizing how long the Democratic Party has stayed in power using these tactics with impunity over the last century or so without us realizing how we’ve been manipulated.

Only fools will be supporting Democratics now. Only fools and desperate radicals who won’t entertain an alternative, will vote for Democratics now.

Posted by: Weary Willie at June 27, 2018 3:28 AM
Comment #428467

Weary, I read that “The Food Channel” had more viewers than “CNN” had during the last ratings.

Hard to believe isn’t it? The once mighty CNN had a near monopoly on cable news. From that mighty position; it has sunk lower than the “Food Channel”.

Well, I would guess the last few Liberals watching CNN will turn out the lights when it vanishes.

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Comment #429157

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