​Deputy Scot Peterson & The Purgatory of Self-Preservation

Broward County Deputy Scot Peterson.

This is the armed guard at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland who waited for several minutes outside the school buildings while gunfire raged inside, and instead radio’ed in for backup. Which came after the killings were done.

Assistant Football Coach Aaron Feis threw his unarmed body into the hail of bullets to save his students' lives while Deputy Peterson waited outside. Feis was 37 when he gave up his life in an act most of us would likely not be brave enough nor wise enough to do in the terrifying heat of the moment.

Deputy Peterson was a 33-year veteran of the police force (he of course has resigned in disgrace), so we can assume he was near in age to myself - somewhere in his 50's. Maybe close to 20 years older than Feis. Assuming that he will be placed into retirement status, the NY Post has revealed his likely pension. His salary was $75,673.72 and he will recieve a pension of 75% of some average of his top 5 earning years. However Deputy Peterson also recieved longevity and First Responder Bonuses so the Post estimates his salary at close to $80,000.

Sheriff's Deputy Peterson received First Responders Bonuses.

The man who was armed and chose to wait outside while students and teachers died received first responders bonuses.

Why the f#ck do we have police forces? There are two principal responses to that question:

For preservation of the peace. OR
For their own preservation.
At Columbine a teacher bled to death as elite swat teams were focused on their own physical integrity and finding the shooters, and not on aiding the wounded. A military outlook meant for the battlefield, but not one that fits as cleanly in the hallways of a school. Deputy Peterson was a few years from his retirement, maybe only a year or two. Was he thinking about that when he chose to wait outside? Aside from the understandable fear any of us would feel, which might very well have paralyzed any of us in the same situation. The difference being is that we don't have a badge and our duty to protect is a less targeted one than that of a police officer. Plus most of us don't have their training.

But our duty - all of us - is clear: protect our children. Protect our youth. Aaron Feis understood that in the marrow of his bones.

So we have to ask how the police are keeping us safe, while keeping in mind Hobbe's warnings about his "state of war", by which he meant the breakdown of civil society. Police are first responders who face danger every work day and then some. But they're also bureaucracies, sometimes enormous ones. We have a right to question how they do their jobs, and a responsibility to get the information we need to understand how and what they do. We have to ask: did Deputy Peterson's training indicate that he should NOT go into a school during a shooting and instead wait for back up? Is that the standard training? What is the standard procedure?? We need to know.

We can scratch our eyeballs out arguing over how to protect our schools and what role concealed carry and gun rights should play in general and once again argue over what the 2nd amendment really means. But we have to protect our children, whether through well-trained armed guards (or teachers) with a sacred duty at schools, or through some form of gun control.

Deputy Scot Peterson, armed and trained, did neither.

He is now in his own purgatory. As we debate how to make first responders more responsive to school shootings, it would seem that Peterson belongs there in that purgatory.

Posted by Keeley at February 23, 2018 2:15 PM
Comments
Comment #424683

My understanding is the training entails securing your position and wait for backup. I was told this training changed after Columbine. Officer Peterson was a 33 year vet. His muscle memory (training) kicked in. His memory may very well have been of the 20 years prior to the Columbine change, not of the modified training since. We don’t even know if he was trained in the modified tactics of move to the gunfire. Did his unit train in the modified tactics? Kinda like asking if any student shooters were prescribed drugs for discipline issues, right? We’ll never find out if no one asks.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 23, 2018 6:02 PM
Comment #424685

Wouldn’t an armed drone controlled by the tech teacher in a secured area be a better bet than counting on some guy close to retirement to do the right thing. He worked at the school every day and probably didn’t see the kids in the same light others may have.

A drone on the other hand would be quick to respond,if the teacher had the drone in his classroom, it could give a visual on the shooter and the teacher could take him out.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 23, 2018 7:16 PM
Comment #424686

Marjory Stoneman Douglas, author of The Everglades: River of Grass (1947).

https://grist.org/article/remember-the-legacy-of-marjory-stoneman-douglas-florida-environmentalist/

Posted by: ohrealy at February 23, 2018 7:32 PM
Comment #424687

Very much like the drone idea WW. The worst situation to be encountered in a school attack is for the shooter to get into a classroom full of kids. At that point there is nothing that can be done to guarantee a good outcome. Having 8-10 drones go for the shooter would minimize the damage a shooter could carry out in a classroom.

Classroom doors might need to be automatic recessed wall doors that can be controlled by admin/RSO. The drone(s) could place an ‘x’ on the shooters head and send video back to control. The drones could shoot bullets, needle injections, liquid spray, set clothes on fire and so on …

Did anyone watch the Olympics tonite where they showed a group of 300 drones under computer control? The drones flew way high into the sky and formed several perfect lighted formations; circles, animal portrayals, human portrayals. Really showed how much the integration of drone mechanics and computers have developed.

There should be some $ put to developing/deploying a drone system for schools and tested in two or three schools.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 23, 2018 8:56 PM
Comment #424689

I saw a video of a guy introducing a killer drone. It was the size of a little bird and it locked on to it’s target and flew into it and exploded. It looked very effective even in formations taking out multiple targets.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 23, 2018 9:55 PM
Comment #424690

Sounds like these drones are very resourceful and daidly accurate.

A big question is, would drones function inside a building with a lot of metallic infrastructure? If not, might be able to place some RF repeaters in certain areas. Might be able to run a send/receive cable/coax throughout the school complex to allow the signal to be present at all times. There must be a way to overcome any impediments.

And, a drone system doesn’t sound to costly. A small company might keep a few techs on hand to visit schools to test/repair and so on …

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 23, 2018 10:41 PM
Comment #424691

How about the friendly white robots that high five and say hello. Just put a shotgun in his belly.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 23, 2018 11:16 PM
Comment #424752

Posted these comments in the green column. There was a cop who called into the Rush Limbaugh show and gave one of the greatest ideas I have ever heard. So simple and virtually doesn’t cost anything. I can’t remember the town, but Rush’s archives could be easily checked. The cop said their police station was running out of space, so they established satellite police stations in the schools. It provided a continued police presence in the schools of uniformed police carrying side arms. The police were in and out all day. It provided armed protection and the police presence eliminated the gun free zone that shooters are looking for. I can see unlimited benefits to a program like this and could be done in cities or rural schools.

My understanding is that after backup arrived, there were 4 Broward Cty deputy’s standing outside the school as the gunfire was still taking place. This is now being talked about on CNN and Fox. The police did not enter the school until the Coral Springs Police Department showed up. On of the police from Coral Springs was on the news yesterday and completely broke down. He said he charged into the building where his wife worked and his daughter was a student. There is no excuse for the cowardice of Broward Cty. Deputies.

Posted by: Blaine at February 24, 2018 10:06 AM
Comment #424753

I’ll bet their training was out of date.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 24, 2018 10:10 AM
Comment #424756

When you love your kids more than you love your guns the answer will come conservatives.

Blaine would have us believe our militarized police occupying schools is the answer, despite the Parkland school having an officer on site. Now having a house full of police in the school sounds cool and diverts attention from the issue I have to say. But what about the rest of the time when the militarized police choose to throw kids around for minor violations and such.

SO Weary suggests robots that high five and says hello before he shoots! Probably a step better than an occupying police force in the schools. But who wants to pay for an army of robots, raise your hands conservatives if that cost is an acceptable tax.

Roy tells us we simply need “commonsense” to solve the problem. You know like getting the popular kids into a gang, give them colors and secret hand signs and send them out to get killed in the crossfire…err…ummm…take out the shooter.

I even suggested using drones to take out the shooter, making the “good guy with a gun” remote from the actual battlefield. But once again who wants to pay for the drones when we can’t even agree to pay for hardened doors and more exits and such.

But what is wrong with this conservative “commonsense”? Well for starters the shooter is already at the school shooting the place up. My god the most we can hope for is a smaller body count, that is conservative “commonsense”! Return fire is the “commonsense” answer when conservative logic is used. Keep the body count down is the battle cry.

Not one time has conservative “commonsense” said “well what works around the world”! Not one time have we looked at what happened when the semi-automatic weapon ban was in place. The mid nineties to the early 2000’s saw a significant reduction in the body count. Yet our conservative friends refuse to even acknowledge it exists.

Common sense my a** you f**king idiots. The problem here is none of us are in schools, we have no stake in the game. Other than refusing to get real about the issue.

As the famous Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw once noted: “A man of great common sense and good taste — meaning thereby a man without originality or moral courage.”.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 24, 2018 2:19 PM
Comment #424757

j2t2,
The ammos*xuals are in a tizzy, spawning an entire industry’s worth of foolishness, really really really stupid ideas, and generalized *sshattery, all in order to keep their AR-15’s. Is it a problem with sexual inadequacy? Fear of the zombie apocalypse? Rampant paranoia? I don’t care. As usual, Trump chose to repeat the stupidest idea of the year about arming teachers, but like I said, the year is young, and the year will be long.

This will be settled by voters, plain and simple. If enough people care to stop the massacres, then they will need to vote accordingly in November and get the assault rifles out of the hands of the civilian population. If not, expect more of the same.

I am happy to see the passion and the articulate stands being made by students, especially the ones from the FL school. It is good to see the next generation standing up for what is good and right, and opposing evil.

Talk and passion are fine, but it is up to people to vote and send the NRA tools- and their money- packing.

Posted by: phx8 at February 24, 2018 3:29 PM
Comment #424758

Phx8 assault rifles are already banned. You cannot get one unless you pay through the nose for one. An AR 15 IS a WANNABE assault rifle. It is nothing but a .223 semi auto rifle cosmeticly changed. If you were any kind of weapons specialist you would know that. You can ban the sale of all guns and the only ones who will have one is a criminal because criminals don’t give a crap what laws you want passed. Chicago is a good example of that.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at February 24, 2018 4:43 PM
Comment #424759


Blaine, I agree that having a police unit integrated with a school would be an good way to protect the students. Especially good when considering cost to implement a protection program.

However, the significant issue here is ‘protection of the student(s)’. Recall that a shooting might last 3 minutes and police generally can’t respond that fast. Where response is critical, having an integrated police unit in the school certainly helps but doesn’t fully address the needed response time. Teachers are right in the class with the students which, IMO, is preferable to an integrated police unit. Even better, IMO, is the idea of putting armed students in the school.

Also, aside from the response time, folks don’t want their schools to be, or have the appearance to be operated as an ‘armed camp’ of sorts which the police unit might represent.

Some schools might like to adopt the integrated police unit style of operation which I don’t think many would oppose.

But, I am liking WW’s idea on placing small drones within the school for student protection. If the details surrounding this could be worked out this would be a relatively inexpensive, highly efficient and cuts the response time to near 0 minutes.

Couple of ideas relating to drones. They might be locked away, behind an automatic ‘door’ of sorts, above, and at the ends of main hallways in the school, to be released on a ‘shooter alarm’. Might need automatic flip up ‘doors’ installed above the main classroom door to allow drones to enter a classroom even though the normal door may be closed/locked. Doesn’t seem plausible to put a drone in each classroom to me, but that might be the way to go. Lot of options to consider.

I think the big issue with drones is what would have to be done, infrastructure wise, to make sure the drone control and video signal could be sent/received from every point in the school.

They could even be made somewhat stealthy by putting laser sensors capability on each drone so they could evade a shooter using a laser weapon.

The more I think about it, the more interested I get. Some fairly useful url’s out there if interested. Seems like realestate folks are using them to take photos/videos of the inside of homes/office bldgs and so on …

Kap, I don’t know fer shure, but I don’t think you can even buy the hardened military type ammo for the AR.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 24, 2018 5:50 PM
Comment #424760

j2t2 would rather see disturbed people continue their assault on school children.

The question is, would j2 be as eager to do away with violent video games and shut down Hollywood’s violent movies as much as he wants to do away with the 2nd amendment?

His use of profanity tells me he has become beside himself that the left is once again loosing the argument.

ph, the students are being coached. There are now two different reports that CNN tried to force the students to ask planted questions at the town hall. CNN has no credibility.

Posted by: Blaine at February 24, 2018 6:38 PM
Comment #424761

Roy Ellis, I have no problem with what you suggest. The goofy politicians want to change the age from 18 to 21 to buy a long gun. What stupidity; 18 year olds are now and have been enlisted in the military since the first war was fought. If they can be trained to fight our nations wars at 18 years old, why can’t they protect students.

Posted by: Blaine at February 24, 2018 6:45 PM
Comment #424762

Right on, Blaine. Seems like commonsense is harder to come by these days. You hear, ;retired military who are now teachers would be good candidates’ I did six years Navy and the closest I came to a weapon was marching around a drill field at Great Lakes toting an old M1 Garand WW1 weapon.

I think we all knew 17/18 year olds in our school classes that were mature/serious to use a weapon.

It’s not like the defenders would be going to war every day. A school would likely not be shot up but once every 1000 years. I believe if you put defenders in schools that number would go to something like once every 50,000 years.

Might mix some teachers in with the student defenders. Might have a paid position for a retired Seal or similar to lead/train the defender group. Lot of options.

But, I am really big on this drone idea. It would be nice to see the good guys get to use a drone system before the bad guys get such a system. There will come a time when drive-bys will revert to drone-bys, IMO.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 24, 2018 7:58 PM
Comment #424763

Roy, .222 and .223 ammo is available. I think the M 16 uses .222 ammo. and that rifle is switchable from semi to full auto. I don’t really think the military uses ammo much different then the civilian ammo.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 24, 2018 8:34 PM
Comment #424764

“I don’t really think the military uses ammo much different then the civilian ammo.”

Civilian ammunition (.223 used in AR-15)) is usually more potent since it can be soft nosed and expandable or some variant (ballistic bullets) which upon impact cause enormous internal damage. Under the Hague Convention, the military is restricted to full metal jacket ammunition which doesn’t expand upon impact and produces a clean through and through wound. For a long time, it has been thought unnecessarily cruel for a soldier to be maimed or killed by an otherwise survivable wound.

So, a civilian can have the same high velocity of a military “assault” rifle with the added killing power of a dum-dum bullet.

Posted by: Rich at February 24, 2018 9:31 PM
Comment #424765

Go figure Rich. The Russians can drop barrel bombs on babies but we can’t use dum dums, and so on …

It has to have something to do with the dimocrats, somehow.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 24, 2018 10:27 PM
Comment #424766

Giving credit where it’s due, I believe it was j2t2 who introduced the drone idea. I commented on it later.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 24, 2018 10:52 PM
Comment #424767

>blockquote>j2t2 would rather see disturbed people continue their assault on school children.

Blaine you are projecting here. I don’t like your police state ideas simply because we have seen the police assume a “defensive position” rather than help way to often. Just because they are in the building doesn’t mean a “disturbed” person from shooting it up.

The question is, would j2 be as eager to do away with violent video games and shut down Hollywood’s violent movies as much as he wants to do away with the 2nd amendment?

No thats not really the question Blaine thats the diversion you seek to create. You have to spout the asinine “as much as he wants to do away with the 2nd amendment” because you have been led astray with this foolish conspiracy theory courtesy of the far right propaganda machine. In fact it is you and other conservatives who will ultimately be the cause of the curtailing of the 2nd amendment not me. People are tired of seeing their kids gunned down in school by people carrying assault weapons Blaine. They are tired of seeing how the rest of the world has dealt with the problem while we just watch our kids die.

His use of profanity tells me he has become beside himself that the left is once again loosing the argument.

Oh brother you politically correct conservatives are something. So full of yourself you think you are winning something with your foolish arguments.

ph, the students are being coached.

Who losing Blaine! You actually believe the students are actors or what?

There are now two different reports that CNN tried to force the students to ask planted questions at the town hall. CNN has no credibility.

FFS Blaine no wonder people swear, your ignorant comments are enough to cause this type of reaction. You use Faux news as a source and think you have credibility only to find out time and time again it was Faux that doctored the data to keep the conservatives dumbed down. First time shame on them second, third, fourth and so on shame on you. You have no credibility.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/02/23/scripted-controversy-cnn-releases-emails-of-correspondence-with-florida-student/?utm_term=.f0d1f14e5e9a

Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2018 1:45 AM
Comment #424768
I believe it was j2t2 who introduced the drone idea.

Oh Weary couldn’t just leave it alone could you. Know that he knows it was a liberal what do you think will happen? It will become some conspiracy and then its over.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2018 1:52 AM
Comment #424770

Blaine,
If those high school kids could turn in that kind of performance with just a day or two of coaching, with no prior experience on the national stage or giving television interviews, then those coaches are the greatest coaches in the world, and those students are the fastest learners on the planet.

What can not be coached is the passion, the burning fervor. These kids saw their friends killed. They were chased through the halls of their school and they hid in classrooms from a lunatic with an assault rifle.

People really, really don’t like that. The difference this time around is that the survivors of the gun massacre can speak for themselves, and it is nearly impossible to deny them.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2018 10:48 AM
Comment #424771

These kids are another rendition of “Never let a crisis go to waste.”. The bodies weren’t even cold before Democratics got on their soapbox spewing their gun control mantra. I think if they had video of bodies still twitching they would have showed it to try to make their point.

j2t2, I’m only trying to reach across the aisle. I think drones would be more useful than stationary cameras, but there still would be a need for multiple drones to be effective in surveying the situation. The armed robot that high fives students in the hallway would be more effective, I believe.


Posted by: Weary Willie at February 25, 2018 11:14 AM
Comment #424772
They were chased through the halls of their school and they hid in classrooms from a lunatic with an assault rifle. Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2018 10:48 AM

Each classroom had a window in the door. MAGA boy shot through the window of each room and then continued shooting through the walls of the classrooms as he walked down the hallway.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 25, 2018 12:05 PM
Comment #424774

No doubt some mfctring outfit is working on a drone ‘carry’ system like we are discussing.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/drones-tight-spaces/

http://grinddrone.com/info/what-are-small-drones

http://info.industrialskyworks.com/blog/confined-space-drone-inspection

I wasn’t aware of the advances drones have made. Looks like the maneuvering thru tight spaces has already been addressed. Like, the top url shows a drone flying thru a small rectangle.

Says some drones are constructed of a carbon fiber to cut down on crash damage. We might want a drone to carry 50 rounds of 32 cal ammo. The ‘gun’ would be mostly plastic or carbon with a 3” barrel. Aiming the gun would be done using it’s own camera, I would think a drone that could life 5 lbs would be sufficient. Cost range $5-10K each.

The only issue that might require some time to work out is ensuring that the drone(s) can fly thru all types of schools/infrastructure without losing control or surveillance signals. We could start with a couple of simple structured/smaller schools and go from there.

I guess since j2 and WW are conflicted over who’s idea the drone thing is, I will accept the idea as my own.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 25, 2018 2:51 PM
Comment #424775

WB ate my latest post on the subject. WW, I would think a drone would need to carry 5lbs or so with a flight time of half an hour. Very doable with current drones.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 25, 2018 2:54 PM
Comment #424776

rich


“Civilian ammunition (.223 used in AR-15)) is usually more potent since it can be soft nosed and expandable or
some variant (ballistic bullets) which upon impact cause enormous internal damage.”


AR15s have milspec 5.56 chambers. 5.56 nato and 223 rem are virtually identical. Both cartridges cant be cycled in a milspec 5.56 chamber. The 5.56 milspec chambed has a slightly longer throat, and looser tolerances. A SAMI 223 chaber is tighter, and not recomended for use with 5.56 ammo because of the slightly higher pressures. Your premise the civilian ammunition by and large is more lethal is false. The most commonly available 5.56, and 223 ammo is FMJ. There are some soft point and hoolow point rounds available, but they are expensive, and are mostly purchased for home defense.


“military is restricted to full metal jacket ammunition which doesn’t expand upon impact and produces a clean through and through wound.”


This only true of the larger cartridges like the 7.62 nato/308 win. The 5.56s 22 cal projectile does nasty things when it hits meat. That and its low recoil make it exellent choice for defensive purposes. The other advantage is that tends to lose energy quickly when hitting solid objects like drywall, wall studs and such. It’s less of an over penetration hazard than buck shot or most common pistol bullets.

Posted by: dbs at February 25, 2018 3:09 PM
Comment #424777

Roy no conflict just thought once you saw it was me not Weary suggesting drones you would think it was a liberal/msm/dim conspiracy.

Why not use tranquilizing gases or animal tranquilizers on the drone, tiny little hypodermic needles or a cloud of gas. Knock them out instead of taking the chance a stray round caps a teacher or student. The problem would be entry into any outbuildings after lockdown. Could be resolved with an electrically controlled window or a drone or two in each building.

Most schools have, or should have by now, video cameras in the hallway that can be viewed remotely on a cell phone or at the main office. Spot the shooter sends in the drones then call the cops. Shooter is knocked out staff and students aren’t as upset and the clean up is easier.

Of course this is only half the problem as it won’t take long before those the NRA represents manufactures anti drone weapons and conservatives decide anti drone lasers, rocket launchers etc are within anyone’s 2nd amendment rights. Getting rid of assault rifles and such will help as statistic have proven.

Perhaps future wannabe shooters would think twice knowing they may live to sit in prison for the rest of their lives as opposed to suicide by cop.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2018 5:10 PM
Comment #424778

Thanks, j2t2. You’ve finally hit the nail on the head. You’ve finally come to a position we can all agree must happen first.

Spot the shooter

That’s the first step. Let’s armchair that aspect of it for a while. We don’t even need a gun.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 25, 2018 5:17 PM
Comment #424779

One thing that would certainly reduce casualties would be to disseminate the students into more frequent and less voluminous schools.

I fail to see the value of cramming thousands of students together in one area and trying to control them! It’s like 20 people watching 400 children at the beach every day after day.

We’ve not touched on the issue of drugs being prescribed to students in these drug free school zones, either. WatchBlog appears to be avoiding the issue. Perhaps the myth of drug free campuses should be examined also.

As part of spotting the shooter.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 25, 2018 5:37 PM
Comment #424780

I also think Jake Tapper is trying to save his job by taking on the Sheriff.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 25, 2018 5:47 PM
Comment #424782

dbs,

I understand. My point was simply that, under the Hague Conventions, military rounds are limited to non-expanding bullets in order to minimize death and maiming for humanitarian purposes. I find it ironic that civilians using a military style semi-automatic such as the AR-15 with high capacity magazines can use more potent death producing ammunition on other civilians including children.

Posted by: Rich at February 25, 2018 8:21 PM
Comment #424783

I read back over some comments and, hell yeah, j2, yer a gol darn hero. That drone idea is golden, just what we need at the time we need it.

I would think a system could be bolted together within a year. Now, I’m not big on injection or gas armaments. The idea is to immediately disarm/disable/kill the shooter. A good sized bullet is the fastest way to take the shooters mind off his target.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at February 25, 2018 10:44 PM
Comment #424784
One thing that would certainly reduce casualties would be to disseminate the students into more frequent and less voluminous schools.

Well conservatives have screwed the pooch on this one for years Weary. To make schools and the population of schools smaller requires money. SO think about it whilst diverting attention from the Assault rifle problem we have. But lets say you cut the number of students in half, per school, thats still quite a number to be able to use as target practice with your AR-15.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2018 10:59 PM
Comment #424785

As I said earlier, arming teachers was the stupidest idea of 2018, Trump pushed it, and here comes the backlash.

Rasmussen announced Trump received a 62% approval rating. Just kidding. That was kind of cruel. No, Trump just matched his lowest numbers from December, 35% in the CNN poll. That was a big one month drop.

WW wrote: “These kids are another rendition of “Never let a crisis go to waste.”. The bodies weren’t even cold before Democratics got on their soapbox spewing their gun control mantra. I think if they had video of bodies still twitching they would have showed it to try to make their point.”

Uh huh. Some people can be such big babies when it comes to high school kids getting massacred by a lunatic with an AR-15. In truth, people get very upset RIGHT AWAY over school children getting killed. They don’t have to wait to figure out what to do about it, either, because the problem is obviously the presence of such military hardware in the civilian population in the first place. And tossing out the same old line attributed to Winston Churchill, and various Democrats and Republicans, since does nothing to minimize it.

As a society we sanitize death. We do not want to see the bodies bleeding and twitching, as if ignoring the pain somehow gave it dignity. Personally, I think we would all be better off with open caskets, so that we can see just how much horrible suffering these gun nuts inflict on the rest of us. The gun debate would be over in an instant if people actually saw the carnage. Otherwise, we have the likes of WW trying to dismiss the high school students who just experienced the massacre at their school, as if they had to be coached.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2018 11:08 PM
Comment #424787

fleet management owner are facing security issue of there vehicle. axestrack software solution is one the company which provides complete vehicle tracking solution for fleet management…..

Posted by: abhishek maheshwari at February 26, 2018 5:04 AM
Comment #424790

Rich

These rifles are used in very few crimes. On the ammunition. I’ve never understood the limitations on ammunition. There is nothing humane about shooting someone. But if you have to shoot someone it’s because you are in grave danger and the aim is to end the fight as quickly as possible. I haven’t checked, but I would bet most of these people are buying cheap bulk ammo, not expensive self defense ammo. The difference in price is pretty dramatic. Bulk FMJ runs 25 to @ 40 cents a round. Defense ammo upwards of $1.50 a round.

Posted by: dbs at February 26, 2018 7:52 AM
Comment #424791

j2

“diverting attention from the Assault rifle problem we have.”

Except it isn’t. Rifles make up a very small percentage of guns used in murders, and “assault weapons” are a very small percentage of rifles used to commit murders. They are just high profile. The media and those pushing gun control blow then out of proportion in order to push their narrative.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

Posted by: dbs at February 26, 2018 8:42 AM
Comment #424792

“These rifles are used in very few crimes.”

Agree, dbs, with the unfortunate exception of mass shootings. They are very lethal: rapid firing, high velocity, large magazines and ammunition designed to kill.

“I’ve never understood the limitations on ammunition.”

Its a humane issue. The world, through the Hague Convention, realized that beyond incapacity, there was no legitimate reason to use more lethal ammunition.

Posted by: Rich at February 26, 2018 8:55 AM
Comment #424793

rich

Mass shooting are rare, when viewed in the context of overall murder committed with firearms. The numbers don’t justify the stripping away the rights of millions who own these weapons and don’t use them for illegal purposes. Nor does it justify the outlawing of future purchases.


“realized that beyond incapacity, there was no legitimate reason to use more lethal ammunition.”

A dead enemy cannot return to the battlefield. Creating rules that try to make war less lethal are nonsensical. As well one is not responsible for worrying about the welfare of an enemy, or criminal that is about to commit a violent act against them. It is the attackers or enemies burden to worry about their own welfare. If I have to shoot someone I want to be able to stop them as quickly as possible. If they are killed in the process, that is on them.

Posted by: db at February 26, 2018 9:26 AM
Comment #424795
As I said earlier, arming teachers was the stupidest idea of 2018 Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2018 11:08 PM

That would be arming white teachers, right? Otherwise, they would end up like Philando Castile, who had no right to bear arms, worked in a school, and was well respected there.

Posted by: ohrealy at February 26, 2018 11:25 AM
Comment #424796

Who volunteers to be the black teacher armed and heading out, after taking a shooter down, to face the SWAT teams all set up in their defensive positions? After watching them cops perp walk all those kids out to their defensive positions I puked..talk about an abuse of rights. Yeah Ohrealy that might be a problem in schools.

I wonder how much the insurance will be for all these “trained” teachers and which conservatives here on WB are willing to say “please raise taxes to cover all these additional expenses”.

So what is more rare a mass killing using an assault rifle or an assault rifle being used for legal purposes? I mean why should even SWAT teams need assault rifles for most of the revenue enhancement activities…err..umm drug raids they perform? The main reason they could possibly need them is because the bad guys have so many of them. After asking this question on Facebook the answer I got was to show off their shooting skills at the range! Is there any other legal activity one needs a AR-15 for?

I’m a bit ashamed of all these NRA types who would stoop to allow the bad guys, you know the drug cartels and such, to hide amongst them with their assault weapons. The most common use of the AR 15 is for illegal activities unless you count showing off at the range for other ammos**uals a legal reason. What right, other than the 2nd amendment, does this covering for the bad guys happen with?

FFS we actually had a few comments calling for commonsense yet this is what we are dealing with! Oxymoron much?


Posted by: j2t2 at February 26, 2018 11:50 AM
Comment #424797

j2

“So what is more rare a mass killing using an assault rifle or an assault rifle being used for legal purposes?”

Considering how many are owned by law abiding citizens that use them for everything from defense to competition, I’d say illegal uses are far more rare. Couple that with the fact that all rifles used to commit murders is only @ 300 give or take, and AR15s and similar rifles are only a portion of all rifles used in murders.

” Who volunteers to be the black teacher armed and heading out, after taking a shooter down,”

Ad hominem much ? Why would the teacher be “heading out” as you put it ? You think there won’t be people on the phone giving play by play, and the responding officers won’t have any idea what is going on, and that the perp was killed by an armed teacher ? You believe that the teacher won’t put the weapon down and follow the officers commands until who he is, is established ?


“The most common use of the AR 15 is for illegal activities unless you count showing off at the range “

Proof please.

again


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls

Posted by: dbs at February 26, 2018 12:10 PM
Comment #424798

dbs, since the NRA demanded the CDC stop researching on gun violence and deaths proof and facts are harder to come by. I’m not sure if this is a true statement or not, but it was what other gun enthusiast told me when I asked what else they were used for.

Perhaps you and other NRA supporters should get your enforcers to let up on the Dickey amendment and allow the gun problem to be looked at from the public health perspective.

According to your FBI link, (and you are actually trusting this source!) (the same guys who are going after Trump!) handguns kill more people than rifles by far. Except in mass killings of course. So one has to ask once again if handguns are so effective why do we need assault rifles for home defense? Perhaps the phrase should be home offense.

It seems to me our choices are everyone open carry all the time.. no place , including the White House, Congress, schools, churches or stores, is exempt, or we limit the different choices of weapons to fewer people. The legal reasons we have weapons, defense and sports, we need to have exemption from the constitutional requirement of well regulated of course. Despite the fact most gun crimes occur with weapons used for sports and defense.

Lets face it the AR-15 and such with a bumpstock is not much different than an automatic weapon which is in fact well regulated. The AR-15 isn’t some sports weapon, what knowledgeable hunter would use one to hunt with? Target practice is bull in a china shop type nonsense if your intention is hitting the target. Other than the “feel good” surge of excitement one gets from laying down cover fire in the vicinity of a target, basically the only other purpose is killing people, which is illegal. Even if the NRA claim of guns protecting the people from government tyranny had any credibility using them to do such is illegal.

How much a ban on semi-auto assault type weapons would do to stop mass killings is known to us from information gleaned in the previous ban that ended in 2004.

Well the jury is out it seems because we expected to much and the time frame was to short. So while it helped in certain categories we would need to improve on the previous ban in that grandfathered in guns and large capacity magazines would also need to be excluded. Of course that wouldn’t solve all the gun violence but it would curtail the mass killings considerably. Which is the point.

What we can see from all of this is the more guns out there the more deaths we have from gun related incidents. It isn’t just the Assault weapons that are the problem but the assault weapons increase the number of deaths when used. Yes those bent on being a mass killer can come up with other means and methods but one thing we know they can’t use lawn darts

Posted by: j2t2 at February 26, 2018 1:45 PM
Comment #424799

j2t2, you do know that the weapons ban you speak of exempted the Cold AR15, don’t you?

Let’s say the left achieved their goal of banning all semi-automatic weapons. How would the police and military protect themselves without the semi-automatic pistols and rifles they use every day?

Are you planning to exempt police and military from the ban? If that is the case then only government would have weapons, correct? Are you then willing to say police and government are infallible and will not use those weapons to violate the constitution? What guarantees are you going to give us it won’t happen? My right to own a weapon is my guarantee. How are you going to guarantee our government won’t turn to democide as a solution to some grievance after these weapons have been confiscated?

As far as your feel-good idea of banning bump stocks, it’s again, a feel-good knee jerk response to a problem and it won’t be effective. Why? Because you can achieve the same results with a semi-automatic weapon by inserting the trigger into your belt loop and applying and maintaining forward pressure as the magazine empties itself.

Do you want to ban belt loops also?

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 26, 2018 2:43 PM
Comment #424801

Weary do you think we should lift the ban on full automatic weapons?

The ‘94 ban left to much into the mix, as you say the AR-15, and wasn’t as effective as it could have been. It was short term as well. Lets do better this time around. Instead of so many loopholes that allowed for the civilian arms race to get to this point it is time to shut it down and make those that protect so many killers to bear the burden, the responsibility for allowing all those weapons on the streets of our country.

A ban that included police departments would help to deescalate the arms race. Of course there may be exceptions to this when dealing with far right terrorist groups militias and organized criminals that use these weapons illegally. But now that they seem to be getting into defensive positions rather so often it should be debated. It seems to me that the SWAT teams could be re-thought as well. Most of them are used way to often to generate income rather than for their intended purposes. This has helped keep the arms race going.

The military isn’t included in these bans, my god man get a grip.

My right to own a weapon is my guarantee.

Weary lets face it this misleading talking point of the NRA doesn’t guarantee you anything. Because the police can and do violate the constitutional rights of people from time to time and you owing the same weapon they do hasn’t stopped it from happening. You don’t own nor can you legally own the rest of their armory why should the assault weapons be any different. The way to prevent democide in this country isn’t by having bigger guns than the government, it is by having leaders in government that wouldn’t lead us in that direction. Yes we should worry now what with tea baggers running Congress and Trump helping them do so. But your AR-15 isn’t the answer.

You know in fact Weary it is people with this same attitude that get themselves armed and dangerous go off into lala land and shoot up a store or church or school or something else that make it tough on the rest of us. The assault weapons have no real purpose for sport or defense so why should we open carry them on the streets of this country?


Weary if the assault weapons become so much harder to get perhaps the belt loop won’t be an issue.

BTW I am not wanting to see semi auto handguns in general banned. AT least not until manufacturers go to the extreme with handguns as they have with rifles for the general public. I think the key here Weary is a deescalation in attitude and in munitions is necessary until such time the population can mature to the point we aren’t killing each other so often over so little.

As you would say that gun can sit there forever and never kill anyone, but unfortunately to many guns didn’t sit there forever and were picked up and used and because it’s intended purpose is to kill it worked as intended. It just doesn’t seem to be working this arms race. We have let to many crazies careless drunk ignorant people hide behind the 2nd amendment. The problem is we don’t know ahead of time who they are until they kill someone else.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 26, 2018 4:11 PM
Comment #424802

J2


“we need to have exemption from the constitutional requirement of well regulated of course”
https://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

Posted by: dbs at February 26, 2018 4:23 PM
Comment #424804
Since the fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, it would seem the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia(s) have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

So, I do believe the 2nd gives me a right to own an automatic weapon of any caliber due to the fact the standing army possesses these weapons also. This also includes the construction and private ownership of manufacturing facilities of these weapons and ammunition.

I personally would not have any need for a fully automatic weapon even if I was facing a foe. They are ammunition wasting machines with limited accuracy during use. They also overheat when used fully auto for a period of time. My personal preference does not deem the banning of any weapons. Your personal preference shouldn’t either.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 26, 2018 6:17 PM
Comment #424805

dang, could someone fix that for me please?

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 26, 2018 6:18 PM
Comment #424824

Sad to see that leftists are still putting their agenda before the lives of children.
They are given idea after idea after idea, but all they care about is gutting the 2nd Amendment into a privilege granted by government.

I used to believe that there would be a limit on the number of children they would be willing to sacrifice for their agenda, but now I realize that I was wrong.
They don’t want rational, practical discussion after a mass shooting, they want to emotionally shout ‘murderer’ at innocent Americans, lie, and silence those who disagree.

There are ways to curb this problem, leftists are just emotionally and intellectually incapable of doing so.

Posted by: kctim at February 27, 2018 9:39 AM
Comment #424825

Just as any moderate democrat would do, President Trump is willing to succumb to meaningless emotion and further infringe on 2nd Amendment rights. This alone would cost Trump 50x more votes than 70+ thousand he won by to be elected President.

So, what does today’s far left extremists do? The exact same thing Hillary did when she had the election in the bag:

https://cicilline.house.gov/press-release/cicilline-introduces-assault-weapons-ban-2018

Posted by: kctim at February 27, 2018 11:44 AM
Comment #424828
… said Catherine W. Sanz, President of the Women in Federal Law Enforcement Foundation.
“We also support the protection of sporting and hunting rifles and the use of assault weapons by law enforcement and the military.”

This double standard is what the 2nd amendment protects us from. The idea that a member of a government, our government, can say “My boss, the people, cannot have these weapons, but the government that I belong to, can.” exudes such a condescending attitude! It’s hard to fathom! It’s like they have no clue of what the American experience is and can only see their vision of what they think it should be. They have no mooring, no grounding, that allows for them to deal with this rationally. It’s purely driven by emotion and nothing good will come of it … again.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 27, 2018 2:33 PM
Comment #424829

The left won’t like this.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1726079860803009&id=163313620412982

Posted by: dbs at February 27, 2018 3:02 PM
Comment #424830

There are thousands more like him.

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 27, 2018 3:30 PM
Comment #424842

Today, 150 Democrats signed on to a Bill banning all semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns. In an election year, the democrats have plainly stated their goal of doing away with the 2nd amendment. My question would be, are they still using the same polls that had Hillary shutting out Trump?

Posted by: Blaine at February 27, 2018 9:17 PM
Comment #424875

Attacking the NRA is another example of the left ignoring the problem and focusing on a political opponent. This is more about solidifying their base than it is about protecting students and teachers.

I would like to expand the idea of arming teachers and students to arming citizens. Private industry protects itself with armed security. Politicians protect themselves with CC and armed security. Many people CC and hire armed security. Not allowing armed security to protect schools is contradictory to established norms.

Why have schools been singled out and left defenseless by a directive initiated by the left, i.e. gun free zones?

The only answer to that has to be political motivation. It’s really sick when you think about it. The left’s knee-jerk reflexes to disarm and make defenseless our schools wasn’t to protect children. It was to “show” they “did something!”. You know, “for the children”. We’re they crass enough to purchase stock from body bag manufacturers when they passed this free target zones law? Or are they banking long term for a disarmed public they can dominate?

Posted by: Weary Willie at February 28, 2018 4:24 PM
Comment #424882

Why wouldn’t we expect an effort to disarm the general public from our Liberal Pals Weary. They support protecting criminals by establishing sanctuary cities and even an entire state.

It is clear, and obvious, that nearly any issue concerning guns, s*x and liberty is political for the Left. They see these issues as opportunities to garner votes to increase their power. If my premise is correct, why would any Leftie attempt to resolve a vote-getting issue?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 28, 2018 5:40 PM
Comment #424911

I’ve, on occasion, read a story with which I agree/disagree with and then find the person belongs to the D/R party and instantly consider that instead of the subject matter of the story.

I also catch myself doing it and usually fall on the side of what subject matter I agree/disagree with. I cast aside the R/D aspect of it and fall on the side of what I agree/disagree with, not what my party agrees/disagrees with.

The problem I run up against is rarely do I hear of an issue I agree with on the D side and many times I find I disagree with the R side. I guess that’s why I post in the center column, but it’s mostly because I feel D/R both are overstepping their bounds and ignoring the constitution.

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Comment #425160

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