​What the Hell Does the GOP do With Roy Moore?

December 12 is just under a month away. And a month is a long time in politics, especially in politics under the Trump administration. The twelfth of December is of course the special election to decide who will replace Jeff Sessions as Alabama senator and, along with senior senator Richard Shelby; represent the state in the U.S. Senate. Roy Moore, embattled and attacked by both sides of the aisle, is now slipping a little in the pools. How much he’s slipping depends on which poll, however, and an Emerson College survey taken after the Washington Post published a story on his possible harassment and perhaps even abuse of teenage girls, shows Moore leading in Alabama by 10 percentage points over his Democrat opponent Doug Jones.

That spells trouble. For the GOP, that is.

Moore has refused to step aside, or back down, or withdraw. He has defiantly pushed back and some of his supporters have claimed that the accusations against Moore will become his own private Access Hollywood scandal: one that anyone would have thought should sink someone's career, but somehow doesn't. Now if he does indeed prevail in the election in December, how does the Senate handle Roy Moore? That was already an issue when he won the primary against Luther Strange. It is now a battle cry on both sides, with tweets (and perhaps some more witnesses) locked and loaded and ready for bear.

Here's the thing. Aside from the lamenting over what kind of standards will be left at this rate, there is a significant percentage of voters who see it all as a hypocritical pearl-clutching exercise. Yes, that would be Moore supporters in Alabama and a portion (perhaps a large one) of Trump supporters around the country.

But there's another small group of powerful people who are being rather neutral and non-commital and it's all about the math in the upper chamber. They would be the administration itself who realize full well that without a tax reform bill, the GOP will likely face brutal midterms next year. And without Roy Moore's vote in the Senate, that tax bill is likely not going to pass.

What the hell is the GOP going to do with Roy?

Could they try to get the bill done before the 12th? Yes. Maybe.

Also, a write-in vote for Luther Strange is being proposed, but given Moore's poll numbers, that does not seem a winning proposition. Will new revelations change that equation over the coming days? Or will Roy Moore survive the same way Trump did?

And even if he does survive and make it to the Senate, all it takes is a couple of GOP senators to sink this bill. Just like they did with Repeal and Replace. It wouldn't be surprising quite frankly at this point.

Posted by Keeley at November 13, 2017 6:38 PM
Comments
Comment #421547

Senate Republicans aren’t going to seat Roy Moore. He had few friends in Washington before the recent revelations and surely has none today. Should Moore win the election, he will certainly be expelled as soon as legally possible.

There won’t be a write-in campaign. The state GOP machine is firmly entrenched with the Moore campaign. These captains will go down with their ship.

Fortunately, Democrats are doing whatever they can to prevent Republicans from undergoing the humiliation of expelling their own. Go Doug Jones!

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 13, 2017 9:49 PM
Comment #421549

Falling and falling, and there just doesn’t seem to be a bottom. But is Moore such a surprise? Was the distance between Trump, a traitor who was recorded bragging about sexually assaulting women with gems such as these:

“You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p*ssy. You can do anything.”

To Biblical justifications of Moore’s actions by the Republican Auditor for Alabama:

““Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist. Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus. There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here. Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

Ick.

The distance was not that far. So another woman came out publicly about being sexually assaulted by Moore when she was 16, and there is just no getting away from it. That sounds genuine. Moore is a genuine creep. He liked to hang out at high school football games and the mall; he was actually banned from a local mall for hitting on teenagers. And conservative Christian Evangelicals followed this guy, just like they followed Trump.

The conservative Christian Evangelical Republicans are trying to blame the Moore scandal on the WaPo and Democrats- Darn that fake news!- but the sheer ugliness of the story is inescapable and the latest story carries the ring of truth. Even McConnell said this guy needed to withdraw. Ouch.


Posted by: phx8 at November 13, 2017 10:41 PM
Comment #421551

By the time Moore gets to DC this will have all blown over. It’s Alabama, this was common knowledge in the DA office at the time. Nothing was done then. He served as a DA and a judge for years so unless it is s*x with little boys or another mans farm animals this is much ado about nothing.

Just like Trump could shoot someone on 5th ave. without losing a vote Good ol’ Roy, the Founder of the Foundation for Moral Law, can do what he wants. Sure we can all be upset but those evangelicals will vote for Hitler before they vote for a dem.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 13, 2017 11:24 PM
Comment #421552

So much for Trump and his “draining the swamp” BS. I mean really what can this administration say about Moore than Moore can’t just turn back onto Trump? In Alabama the age of consent is 16 but with Mom and Dad’s permission 14 is the legal age for marriage so it seems good ol Roy was just wife hunting and these girls didn’t get chosen.

The decision is this, child molester or Democrat. For people backing Roy Moore this is a no brainer. Breitbart is already spinning the story, what a disgusting man Bannon is. By the time he is dons these conservatives will be telling us it was Clinton not Moore. The sad thing is the conservatives will believe it.

The real issue here is the lack of integrity displayed by Moore. Anyone with an ounce of moral backbone should refuse to allow him to represent the state of Alabama. Lying and denying instead of admitting his mistakes is wrong.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 13, 2017 11:39 PM
Comment #421556

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Comment #421557

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Posted by: mathcadhelp.com at November 14, 2017 1:39 AM
Comment #421565

Wow what a surprise, 50 Alabama pastors supporting good ol’ Roy. Yep those good Christians are using the culture war as their reason for supporting the culture warrior. Despite Moore taking the low road. Moore could have owned up to his past failures and apologized, whilst silently thanking the ladies for waiting so long to come forth, statue of limitations and all.

But he chose to lie and deny. He called it fake news, Breitbart has been attacking the messenger and the victims on behalf of Roy Moore. He denied it all, just this week. He lied just this week.

The culture warrior, the founder of the Foundation for Moral Law, took the low road. Yet these ministers preachers and pastors still back him. What does that say about these particular Christians and their flocks? We know what it says about good ol’ boy Roy.

I know, he may not have coveted his neighbors wife or his neighbors a** but he did lie. For years he lied, still does, and doesn’t repent. Meanwhile these same men of the cloth, and most of the rest of us, were so up in arms over Bill Clinton’s indiscretions, and used them to attack both of the Clinton’s and many others as well. Yet when it is one of their own warriors they accept and encourage. They have exposed themselves as morally bankrupt, low roaders in the culture wars IMHO. Because this is just one man in a series who knew better, yes I am thinking of those that led the Clinton impeachment whilst carrying on various moral indiscretions.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 14, 2017 10:19 AM
Comment #421566

OK then! You guys have it all figured out! No need to go any further.

Guilty until proven innocent. You guys practically have this guy in the electric chair and there isn’t a judge or jury in sight.

Guilt by association. You guys have condemned anyone who is skeptical. It’s like you believe 50 Alabama pastors held the little girl down while Moore had his way with her.

The problem you guys have with this movie is we’ve seen it before. The only thing it reminds us of is the hypocritical double standard you guys practice whenever you want to achieve an underlying goal of your own making. Where is your scorn for Menendez? Where is your condemnation of Clinton and his enabler/wife? Yea, I went there. Answer the question instead of shooting the messenger.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 14, 2017 11:01 AM
Comment #421567

It’s amazing how many women will wait years to finally get the courage to report a crime. It must be the persuasive techniques of this Allred woman. The golden tongued champion of forgotten offense. Why is she always at the center of these occurrences? Is she the only lawyer capable of bringing these charges to trial? Oh wait! There is no trial, right? No need!
Even if there was a trial(Menendez), we wouldn’t be hearing about it, would we? Oh, wait again. Moore is a Republican, Menendez is a Democratic! My bad. I accidentally forgot about the hypocrisy and double standards in play.

Why do Democratics think we’ll automatically forget about the last time, and the time before that, when you’ve played this trick on us?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 14, 2017 11:13 AM
Comment #421568

Another quote from a letter written by Moore’s wife:

“Roy Moore has been an immovable rock in the culture wars… A bold defender of the ‘little guy,’ a just judge to those who came before his court, a warrior for the unborn child, defender of the sanctity of marriage, and a champion for religious liberty.”

‘Little guy’? Not so much the ‘little girl.’ But like so many religious “warriors” who are so offended by the sexuality of others, it turns out Moore was not cruising the strip for young teen males, as I predicted in an earlier comment. I was wrong about that. He preferred young females.

The Onion said it well in a satirical article with a lot of truth to it:

“… the women accusing him of pedophilia were only doing so now because “shifting sociocultural norms have created an environment in which assault allegations are taken seriously.” “These women have had 30 years to come forward, and the one and only reason they’re speaking out now is because they suddenly have less fear that their lives will be utterly destroyed,” said Moore, adding that the women accusing him of sexually pursuing them as teenagers were just several of many “jumping on the sexual assault bandwagon these days” in light of meaningful systemic change and the fact that society would no longer immediately discredit them. “My accusers are nothing but slandering opportunists taking advantage of the deteriorating influence of the patriarchy that has traditionally silenced any woman who makes such claims. If the American public at large had not finally begun truly hearing victims and decided that enough was enough, I guarantee that these women would never have had the audacity to accuse me of such heinous crimes.” Moore went on to say that he would nevertheless continue his run for the Senate despite the charges against him because while the norms had shifted, they had not shifted nearly as much in Alabama.”

WW,
You are going to have to make a judgment. There will not be a trial. There will be no legal case. The standard is not “innocent until proven guilty.” In this it is a moral judgment, a judgment about character.

So what have you decided about Moore?

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 11:18 AM
Comment #421569

Unlike you, I will wait for the trial. How’s Menendez’ trial coming along? Do you know? How many votes has he missed? You don’t know? When will he be back in the senate to vote? You don’t know? When will he be raked across the coals? You don’t know?

It doesn’t sound like the times are a changin’. It sounds like the times are still the same. Double standards run amuck. Hypocrisy commands the high, excuse me, the low ground.
The only change being made here is a move from innocent until proven guilty to Who cares if he’s innocent, the ends will justify the means.

The standard is not “innocent until proven guilty.”

Thanks for clarifying your position on the matter, phx8.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 14, 2017 12:07 PM
Comment #421570

Although I do not live in NH, I know the Menendez trial jury is deadlocked and will probably result in a mistrial. A unanimous SCOTUS decision in the corruption trial of VA Governor McDonnell now makes it nearly impossible to find a public official guilty of bribery. With Menendez, it is additionally complicated by the fact that it was difficult to find a quid pro quo because Menendez had a 25 year friendship with the person. As I have said before, I do not like corruption or even the appearance of it, and if I had any say in the matter, I would send Menendez packing.

And yes, when it comes to sexual harassment, the times they are a-changin’. The Onion article is satire, but true on a basic level. “If the American public at large had not finally begun truly hearing victims and decided that enough was enough, I guarantee that these women would never have had the audacity to accuse me of such heinous crimes.”

In Moore’s case, the standard is not “innocent until proven guilty.” This is not a legal case. The statute of limitations has expired for the accusations. There will never be a trial. And so, you are left with a judgment call: are the women telling the truth, or are they lying? Is Moore telling the truth, or lying?

I believe the women. I think Moore is skeezy guy and, if he wins, should be barred from taking a seat in the Senate.

So what have you decided about Moore?

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 1:26 PM
Comment #421573
OK then! You guys have it all figured out! No need to go any further.

We know who we believe how about you Weary?

Guilty until proven innocent. You guys practically have this guy in the electric chair and there isn’t a judge or jury in sight.

Nope he won’t go to court for any of this.

Guilt by association. You guys have condemned anyone who is skeptical. It’s like you believe 50 Alabama pastors held the little girl down while Moore had his way with her.

How many strawmen you got there Weary? Putting words into our mouths and then acting all put out because Moore is the victim….

The problem you guys have with this movie is we’ve seen it before. The only thing it reminds us of is the hypocritical double standard you guys practice whenever you want to achieve an underlying goal of your own making.

So we have made it up! we are hypocrites! Nit the pastors and the values candidate but us!

Where is your scorn for Menendez?

What did Menendez have to do with what Moore did 30 years…oh look over there…squirrel!


Where is your condemnation of Clinton and his enabler/wife?

So did Moore do this because Clinton made him do it, is that your story? Look over there up in the sky… its …oh never mind.

Yea, I went there. Answer the question instead of shooting the messenger.

As predicted. But on a positive note Weary you left out Obama. What question Weary. All you done is a rant completely and totally non-relevant to the issue. I realize you want to fall on the sword for good ol’ Roy but you haven;’t even answered the basic question. Do you believe him and Breitbart? Or do you believe the girls that came forward?

Posted by: j2t2 at November 14, 2017 4:37 PM
Comment #421574

In today’s environment I don’t believe most of what comes out of the MSM. I’m having a hard time believing Harvey Weinstien is guilty. I’ll wait for the trial. That’s a novel approach these days, isn’t it?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 14, 2017 4:57 PM
Comment #421575

Opinion doesn’t count unless you are an eligible voter in Alabama.

“I believe the women. I think Moore is skeezy guy and, if he wins, should be barred from taking a seat in the Senate.”

OK phx8. If one is considered “skeezy” (sleazy) by you, they should be barred from taking a seat in the Senate.

Using your parameters, I have eight senators who should be barred from continuing to hold their senate seat.

QUESTION: Phx8, do you now, or have you ever; considered Bill Clinton “skeezy”?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 14, 2017 5:18 PM
Comment #421576

RF,
Sob… But… But… Hillary! And… Bill!

We’re talking about a accused pedophile who may win a seat in the Senate. If he wins, he will probably be expelled- prevented from taking that seat.

WW believes the women are liars, that Moore should be taken at his word, and allowed to sit in the Senate if he wins. Despite the unfiltered live testimony of the women, WW somehow thinks this has something to do with the MSM. Don’t ask me how, I can’t explain how.

From a legal perspective, Weinstein will get his day in court. He is innocent until proven guilty. In the meantime, he checked into rehab for s*x addiction.

So, RF, an accused pedophile may win a Senate seat. There will be no trial. It is the word of those women against the word of a man- one who was given a lifetime ban from the local mall for hitting on teenage women. Moore denies it all.

What do think? You have to make a decision here in real time, and you only have the word of those women (and the 30 sources supporting their stories) versus Moore. I’ve said what I believe. WW seems to have a very hard time coming out in favor of Moore, yet that is what he is doing. What do you think? Are you ready to support an accused pedophile in the Senate?

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 5:37 PM
Comment #421577

“What do think? You have to make a decision here in real time…”

Are you just having a bad day phx8. I wrote what I think, must I write it again?

I don’t get to vote in Alabama. There is no decision for me to make.

No one has interviewed these accusers under oath. No one has interviewed Judge Moore under oath.

Do we now, as phx8 suggests, just take people’s word for something and find guilt or innocence?

Do act stupid friends. This matter being discussed at this time is purely political since no formal binding judgement can be made.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 14, 2017 5:48 PM
Comment #421579
one who was given a lifetime ban from the local mall for hitting on teenage women. Moore denies it all.Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 5:37 PM

Carver Ann Boynton, who runs the Gadsden Mall has been on the phone with news agencies all day. She did find the file which banned Roy Moore and is is the one who reported the document yesterday. She’s also received numerous calls today from local politicians asking her to stop giving info and even asked her to destroy the file.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 14, 2017 6:44 PM
Comment #421580

He was also banned from the local Y.

It seems we now have proof positive that the GOP and Evangelical Christians have lost their moral compass. Speaker Ryan said Moore should drop out. Many Republicans on the national stage are asking Moore to step down. Others have withdrawn their endorsements.

Meanwhile, e-mail exchanges between Trump Jr. and Wikileaks throw more chum in the water. Wikileaks e-mailed Trump Jr. of an impending release. Trump Jr. e-mailed Hope Hicks. Fifteen minutes later Trump tweeted a demand that the press cover the Wikileaks release. Trump does not use e-mail; instead, he maintains distance by having e-mails sent to Hope Hicks, who prints them for him.

Sessions gave some unintentionally hilarious testimony today. Some time ago, Sessions said ‘good people do not smoke marijuana.’ A Senator reeled off a list of conservative presidents, senators, and representatives, and asked Sessions if they were “good people.” The funny part was not the question; it was the reaction of the audience. About 3/4 of the people sitting behind Sessions were smiling and laughing at him.

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 7:01 PM
Comment #421581

Question: Does phx8 cover his mouth with his hand when he giggles?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 14, 2017 7:05 PM
Comment #421582

Question: How much respect should we have for the members of the United States Senate when they recognize the need for instruction in anti-se*ual harassment training of sitting senators?

The need for such training can logically be understood to mean that se*ual harassment has; and is occurring. Perhaps all candidates for national office should undergo this training before they can run for office.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 14, 2017 7:13 PM
Comment #421583

When will our leaders in the United States HOR and Senate tell us which members have been se*ually harassing other members or staff?

Can the media that has uncovered all the accusers against Judge Moore possibly find and name the harassers in congress?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 14, 2017 7:32 PM
Comment #421584

Roy Moore provides a good example of how the GOP and Christian Evangelicals lost their moral compass. The same inability to make the most basic, fundamental judgments about decency led to the election of Trump.

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 8:01 PM
Comment #421586

Your hubris is why you keep losing elections, phx8.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 14, 2017 10:33 PM
Comment #421587

WW,
There is a strong anti-intellectual and anti-elitist element in the rise of the Trump/Moore style of politics, but it’s not just that.

There is a natural tendency among conservatives to worship authority, whether it is in the religious sense or in the political sense, to revere the sign- the flag, the anthem, the uniform- rather than its significance- because the significance is abstract and intellectual and elitist. In psychological experiments studying the brain, conservatives value order and purity, and feel threatened by their loss.

So what I think is going on here in the progression from Limbaugh to Breitbart to Trump & Moore is a movement in which conservatives made a Faustian bargain.

Conservatives- now known as the alt-right- wanted certainty, NOT the diversity and inclusion and uncertainties of other sexual orientations.
They wanted the purity of simplicity and the purity of race.

They wanted order- preferably the old order, or maybe just law and order. You know. MAGA. Build a wall and keep out the impure and threats to law and order.

So they listened to whoever offered certainty and purity and order, no matter how implausible. And they sold their soul to get it.

Conservative policies have become almost non-existent. Debt and deficits used to be bad. Now they are good. Increasing deficits will pay for themselves! The economy used to be bad. Nothing has changed, yet the same economy is now good. We need to improve wages and the division of wealth, and the solution is to cut taxes for corporations. Trump can make a speech abroad praising Putin and condemning American intelligence, and the treasonous content barely makes a ripple.

Is there information to contradict it? Fake news!

It has reached a point where conservatives are so paralyzed they will elect an accused pedophile to the Senate, as long as that candidate offers order and purity and certainty in return. They have become incapable of making basic moral judgments.

Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 11:05 PM
Comment #421588

How can you claim to know anything about a conservative or how they think. Screw you, phx8. You’re talking out your ass.

You are so anti-conservative you couldn’t possibly know anything about them. You may claim to know conservatives, but I’ll bet dollars to donuts they are humoring you in your presence because they don’t want to listen to condescension.

Stick a sock in it for a while, phx8. Try asking a question for a change. Who knows you might learn something you don’t already know.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 15, 2017 12:16 AM
Comment #421589

Phx 8 great analysis of conservatives of today. I would suggest fear is the driving force that causes conservatives to act they way they do. They have bought into the politics of fear and are like Pavlov’s dogs when the movement leaders bring out the whistle.

I would also like to thank our conservative friends for showing us their lack of integrity, as they have given it up completely, whilst defending good ol’ boy Roy. Fear is a terrible thing guys let it go.

I have to give a tip of the hat to our conservative friends because despite all their efforts to cast blame everywhere but with the responsible person,they had the good sense to not use the “Moore was a democrat at the time these events took place” line.

Weary you are angry at phx8 because you think only a conservative can know what a conservative thinks! You are the one you should be angry at, after all you left your integrity at the door when you blamed Clinton, Mendoza, the women, the media and everybody but Moore. Why is it conservative “principles” go out the door at times like this?

IMHO that is as bad as Moore. He could have apologized and put and end to it but no he chose to give up his integrity with the lying and denying. Are those the kind of values you want in DC? Was sitting a US senator who has a history of manipulating young girls into s*x while he was a DA what you guys meant when you said you would be “draining the swamp”?

Posted by: j2t2 at November 15, 2017 12:56 AM
Comment #421590

I drew the line at your hypocrisy. You ignore your side’s indiscretions but bleat repeatedly when a conservative is charged. It’s the hypocrisy that is the most obvious flaw here. Your incessant whining is an attempt to obscure the fact the left is just as guilty. I can’t listen to hypocrites who only condemn certain people.

I can’t understand how the mother of a 14 year old girl can remain silent for 30 years and only come forward at the prodding of a news reporter. That doesn’t make sense.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 15, 2017 1:06 AM
Comment #421594

Roy moores fate should be decided by the voters. The timing of these accusations is fishy to say the least. Don’t know if they’re are true or not. I like the fact that it’s to late to replace him. This makes the whole thing even more suspicious. But hell New Jersey has the same law, and that didn’t stop the democrats from suing to replace Torricelli when it looked like he was gonna get crushed because of the corruption charges. So the they replaced him with the Laut.

Posted by: dbs at November 15, 2017 8:51 AM
Comment #421595

px8

“It has reached a point where conservatives are so paralyzed they will elect an accused pedophile to the Senate, as long as that candidate offers order and purity and certainty in return. They have become incapable of making basic moral judgments.”

This is hysterical. You’ll convict Moore in an instant, and not even question the circumstances in which the accusations came out, and at the same time give Wienstien pass, and say he’s innocent until proven guilty. This just goes to show that the seriousness of the charges is all that matters. That is when they are leveled against your political opponents. When they are leveled against your own, they are dismissed as baseless politically motivated smears. smh

Posted by: dbs at November 15, 2017 9:19 AM
Comment #421596
You ignore your side’s indiscretions but bleat repeatedly when a conservative is charged.

Umm.. Weary… you seem to be doing the very same thing , you do realize…don’t you?

It’s the hypocrisy that is the most obvious flaw here.

I would suggest the most obvious flaw is Roy Moore, Weary. I know you like to deflect from fellow conservatives, as if they were perfect, but the issue is Roy Moore and the time is the present, not someone from 2 decades go. That is hypocrisy IMHO.

Your incessant whining is an attempt to obscure the fact the left is just as guilty.

Weary at some time, in order to regain your integrity, you must stop blaming the left for the actions of Roy Moore. No one on the left had anything to do with Roy soliciting young girls for s*x.


I can’t listen to hypocrites who only condemn certain people.

I would suggest you are doing exactly what you are criticizing. You have blamed the media, the girls, the left for exposing the actions of good ol’ Roy and you have not said one word that condemns his actions. What kind of hypocrisy would you call that?

I can’t understand how the mother of a 14 year old girl can remain silent for 30 years and only come forward at the prodding of a news reporter. That doesn’t make sense.

Because good ol’ Roy is of the worst kid of abuser, he used his power and influence to keep the lid on things,he used fear. Ask yourself why those working with Moore in the DA’s office all that time knew about his abuse and kept a lid on it.

Look at this as you would the Catholic church coverup of Priests abusing little boys. How long did these boys remain quiet? Or is that just another bit of left wing “hypocrisy”? But please don’t blame the victims or the media for thew actions of Roy Moore.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 15, 2017 9:20 AM
Comment #421597

Yes, don’t blame the media for sitting on this story until after the primary before approaching the initial victim. They knew that a democrat had little chance of winning this race, but had dirt on Moore. They knew if they used it during the primary, Moore loses, and so do they. So what did they do ? They held on to it banking on Moore winning and then they’d bring it out when it was most advantageous. Ha ha ha. Yeah, they were genuinely concerned about the victims, and justice. Nothing but opportunist dirt bags. But don’t blame the media. What a f@#king joke.

Posted by: dbs at November 15, 2017 12:48 PM
Comment #421598

j2t2,
Fear is a big part of the conservative emotional make-up, the fear of threats to order and purity.

dbs,
No one is ‘convicting’ Moore. It is not a legal case. The standard here is a moral standard, not the legal one of innocent until proven guilty. Moore will never face trial or go to jail.

There is always a chance that both women are fabricators. The timing of the WaPo article has to be taken into account. In this case, there is enough supporting evidence, 30 sources from the WaPo, and from the second woman who came forward, for most people to make the judgment and call for Moore to be prevented from sitting in the Senate.

WW,
Whataboutism, both sides do it, name calling, hypocrisy, fake news, Hillary! Admit nothing, deny everything, deflect…

Part of the problem with this approach is that conservatives are in power TODAY, and we have to make decisions TODAY. That is part of the reason why conservative attempts to evade the issue fall so flat. Whataboutism and so on doesn’t work in this environment. It emotionally appeals to conservatives motivated by fear and a deep seated desire for order and purity, but it fails badly for the majority of people.

Posted by: phx8 at November 15, 2017 12:52 PM
Comment #421601

phx8 has discovered a new quote from some Liberal website. How many more times will we hear the phrase…”conservatives are motivated by fear and a deep seated desire for order and purity?”

Someone asked phx8 and j2t2 why their comments were so uninformed and senseless; Please, tell us, is it ignorance or apathy?

Both replied; “I don’t know and I don’t care.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 15, 2017 3:25 PM
Comment #421602

phx8 is spot on.
Where is the moral outrage from the rightwing?
While the not-conservatives try to bring up facts and evidence the right have straw men, ‘feelings’, ‘beliefs’, ‘outrage’ and ‘opinions’ devoid of evidence.
When will facts again have a bearing on a discussion? Why can’t you agree to a factual foundation?

Posted by: Dave at November 15, 2017 3:31 PM
Comment #421603

“When will facts again have a bearing on a discussion?”

Poor Dave. Will someone please explain to him the difference between “facts” and accusations.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 15, 2017 3:42 PM
Comment #421604

Our Liberal Pals would have us convict Judge Moore on the:

Preponderance of the accusations.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 15, 2017 3:44 PM
Comment #421607

Poor Royal Flush! He can’t understand the difference between imprisoning a man and simply refusing to support his aspirations for elected office. Nobody is suggesting Judge Moore ought to be convicted or incarcerated on any basis other than that of a courtroom trial leading to a verdict from a jury of his peers.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 15, 2017 4:30 PM
Comment #421608

As Warren pointed out, I never asked for an extrajudicial conviction or incarceration. I simply asked that ‘conservatives’debate from a position of facts.

I have a simple inquiry of you, Flush:

Given:
(a) Roy Moore has been accused by multiple women (It’s up to 5 now) as having assaulted them when they were teenagers.
(b) These accusations are quite credible by an objective assessment; hard core rightists like Paul Ryan and McConnell are in the ‘Moore quit now’ column. Even Sessions says the accusations are credible.

Questions:
(1) Why would you vote for him now? (don’t care if you’re in AL or not)
(2) How does not that not compromise your moral integrity?
(3) At what point would you not vote for him?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/paul-ryan-joins-gop-calls-for-roy-moore-to-end-campaign-amid-sexual-misconduct-allegations/2017/11/14/65a4c824-c951-11e7-aa96-54417592cf72_story.html?utm_term=.b062db7702c4

Posted by: Dave at November 15, 2017 4:50 PM
Comment #421609

As usual, Warren does not understand the meaning of words when used in a sentence. The word “convict” was used by me in response to calls from phx8 that we must make a decision “convict” based on the accusations.

Hope that isn’t too deep for you Warren.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 15, 2017 4:57 PM
Comment #421611

Dave, have I written that I would vote for Moore?

How is my “moral integrity” linked to my vote? Has Dave voted for persons with suspect moral integrity? What does that mean?

Has Judge Moore’s opponent been examined with the same scrutiny covering many decades?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 15, 2017 5:07 PM
Comment #421613
(It’s up to 5 now) as having assaulted them when they were teenagers.Posted by: Dave at November 15, 2017 4:50 PM

I think it’s seven now, besides all the cases where he sided with abusers against their victims, and this case where he was the sole dissenting vote:

In 2015, during Roy Moore’s second stretch on the Alabama Supreme Court, the court heard the case of Eric Lemont Higdon, a man convicted of two sodomy charges due to sexual assault against a four-year-old at Mama’s Place Christian Academy in Clay, Alabama.

More women in Gadsden are coming forward:

Tina Johnson was 28-years-old and going through a divorce when she went to Roy Moore’s legal office with her mother to assign legal custody of her children to her. While at the meeting, Moore remarked how pretty she was and asked if her young daughters were as pretty as her. Upon leaving the office, Moore ‘grabbed’ Johnson’s buttocks without her permission.
Posted by: ohrealy at November 15, 2017 6:30 PM
Comment #421614

I really find it interesting that only recently have there been this flurry of sexual related charges flying around in the media. The left has been calling Trump a rapist and all sorts of other names since the bus eavesdropping tape was used to politically assassinate him. Every other day since there are multiple accusations from people claiming they have been sexually offended in some way by people in power. The entire chain of events seems orchestrated and forced.

In this type of environment, how can you possibly take someone at their word with something of this magnitude? Especially if those making the charges are women? Women have been getting free passes for a long time even when they are the instigators. Government sides with the women as the default. Men had to start support groups to defend themselves against their spouses because the court didn’t even consider them in some cases. The women’s accusations, in Judge Moore’s case, have gone unchallenged. They are not under the same scrutiny the accused are. The only time I’ve read a headline quoting an accused it was full of vile name calling. The name calling was the headline, not the accusation. I’ve not heard anything from Harvey Weinstein. Wouldn’t you think a media magnate would be able to get his version out? I hear nothing. Maybe he can’t defend himself. He will at least get a trial. That’s not like what you’re doing to Moore. You all are lynching him in the media with threats of punishment for accusations that haven’t even attempted to be proven.

It’s a sad time for America. It’s not because people are able to make these accusations against innocent people and get away with it. It’s a sad time because society is considering that behavior normal.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 15, 2017 6:37 PM
Comment #421615

“The fear is strong in this group Obi-Wan.”- Yoda

Weary tells us “That’s not like what you’re doing to Moore. You all are lynching him in the media with threats of punishment for accusations that haven’t even attempted to be proven.”, such hysterics Weary.
Royal can’t figure out “How is my “moral integrity” linked to my vote?” And him being a values voter!
and dbs insists “They held on to it banking on Moore winning and then they’d bring it out when it was most advantageous.”, come on dbs do you think those value voters will change their vote just because they have a sexual predator as one of their own?

Judging by the unhinged nature of the comments by conservatives here on WB it seems reason has been replaced by rationalization. The laughable conspiracy theories running amok as they desperately seek to blame others for what Roy Moore has done, while entertaining is also disturbing.

Yet they refuse to hold the one person responsible for Roy Moore’s predicament responsible, Roy Moore himself. Its the media they knew this all along, its the women if only they stayed away from him, its the leftist conspiring to take over the world. Not it is Roy Moore. I would suggest it is more than fear of purity or lack of order, it is fear that has transformed into anger and hate that is clouding their judgement, causing their suffering.

“Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.”-Yoda

Posted by: j2t2 at November 15, 2017 9:53 PM
Comment #421616

Well said, j2t2. It is tribalism, it is partisanship on steroids.

In all the excitement over the very real chance an accused pedophile will be elected to the Senate, a cherished Conspiracy Theory died hard. Yesterday Sessions shot down the Uranium One CT because there were no “basic facts.” A FOX news guy shot it to pieces in a couple sentences.

Meanwhile, it turns out Trump Jr. was corresponding with Wikileaks by e-mail. Let’s see if he ends up wearing an orange jump suit for conspiracy to violate election laws. Magic Eight Ball says chances are good.

The tax bill was ugly and today it got even uglier. The GOP wants to repeal the individual mandate for the ACA, sunset the tax cuts for individuals, but make the corporate tax cuts permanent. The Republicans literally want to take away Medicare and Medicaid in order to fund corporate tax cuts. Words like ‘abhorrent’ come to mind.

Posted by: phx8 at November 15, 2017 10:09 PM
Comment #421617

And this is a good example of why Trump is so utterly unfit to lead. H can’t lead the GOP. He can’t say a thing about Moore because he was accused of preying on 13 women. There is even video of him bragging about being a sexual predator. The GOP and conservatism is falling and falling and there is no sign of a bottom.

Posted by: phx8 at November 15, 2017 10:14 PM
Comment #421618
As usual, Warren does not understand the meaning of words when used in a sentence. The word “convict” was used by me in response to calls from phx8 that we must make a decision “convict” based on the accusations.

Royal Flush, go read a dictionary and come back when you understand what the verb “convict” actually means. I have no time for your word games. Under no circumstances does a refusal to support a person’s candidacy for elected office constitute a “conviction” of said person.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 15, 2017 10:29 PM
Comment #421619

Warren Porter is correct. He would also be correct if he said an accusation does not constitute a conviction.

An accusation may be a fact, but that fact doesn’t constitute a conviction either.

What’s missing is evidence. There are only accusations. That’s the only fact that is common in all these news stories about sexual whatevers in the media. They are only accusations.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 15, 2017 11:24 PM
Comment #421623
Meanwhile, e-mail exchanges between Trump Jr. and Wikileaks throw more chum in the water. Wikileaks e-mailed Trump Jr. of an impending release. Trump Jr. e-mailed Hope Hicks. Fifteen minutes later Trump tweeted a demand that the press cover the Wikileaks release. Trump does not use e-mail; instead, he maintains distance by having e-mails sent to Hope Hicks, who prints them for him. Posted by: phx8 at November 14, 2017 7:01 PM

Each contact with wikileaks was espionage by their own standards, subject to the death penalty.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 16, 2017 12:06 AM
Comment #421639

This whole thing was well played by the left. Don’t know if Moore is guilty or not, but it doesn’t look good. At the same time the left held on to this information for political advantage rather than going public as soon as they knew. This only goes to show they care nothing for those women. They were just political pawns who’s stories were used to gain advantage.So they cannot claim the moral high ground. The result….probably a democrat will hold that seat for the next six years before it again goes red.

Posted by: dbs at November 16, 2017 7:07 AM
Comment #421642

dbs,

Do you have any evidence supporting your claim that “the Left” held onto this information for political advantage. The story was originally broken by The Washington Post . Liberal editorial page notwithstanding,The Washington Post is not “the Left”. They have their biases, but holding back a story as you allege would be a serious beach of journalistic ethics.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 9:39 AM
Comment #421643

I can only hope that Flush’s defensive posture is in response to an ember of decency in recognition that the perverted Dinty stew of Moore is actually another toxic stain on republican credibility.

Posted by: Dave at November 16, 2017 11:00 AM
Comment #421645

Excellent “blame the left” rationalization dbs. I guess you think the media had these 6 or 7 or 8 women all lined up for months and slowly has them come out with their media scripts in hand, is that right?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-alabama-mall-banned-roy-moore-in-the-80s-for-pursuing-teens

It seems you would think these women were all lying, what about the former cop is he lying as well? Do you think it was the woman who forged Roy’s signature in the yearbook or someone from “the media” who forged it and gave it to the woman?

The link above, if you scroll down an article shows how a person of integrity would handle the situation Moore finds himself in. I also wonder do you think the woman who accused Al Franken of groping her is lying as well? Do you think the media had this in que for a awhile as well?

Posted by: j2t2 at November 16, 2017 11:44 AM
Comment #421646

I don’t know why anyone wants to play 50 first dates with the right wingers here.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 16, 2017 11:46 AM
Comment #421649

ohrealy, the right wingers here on WB are typical of right wingers in Alabama and across the country. Asking them to look at their rationalizations, I would hope, could make them see the inane drivel they spout makes no sense once they write it down and share it with the rest of us.

Imagine the fear and paranoia they live with day to day. IMHO most are fine people, although terribly mislead. They seem to be suffering PTSD after 8 years of Obama and Clinton combined with the all out assault on their senses from the conservative propaganda machine (CPM).

They gambled on Trump because they feared the Russians would get the rest of the plutonium if Clinton was elected . Unfortunately I think their level of stress has only risen since the Russian/Trump connection is public knowledge for most of us.

Yes our conservative friends continue to double down on the fear as they would rather elect a child molester than a dem to the Senate, but I still hold out hope for them. I hope this isn’t 1929 Germany redux.

The close call the country had with Sharia law has made them angry and we all know Roy Morre aved the country from that. They actually believe gays marrying takes away their religious liberty which makes them hateful, imagine the stress levels. After years of daily brainwashing’s they thought Obama was taking away their guns, setting up FEMA camps in Texas during the Jade Helm trauma. They have been through a lot. And the CPM assault isn’t over. Roy Moore is the last line of defense in Alabama. The women coming forward with their Roy Moore ordeals only seems to have proved Satan is at work.

Many are still wanting Hillary to be impeached, as if she could be impeached. It isn’t because they are dimwitted it is the grasp fear has on them. That is how controlled these people are. They are our fellow Americans, they can vote and the fear causes them to believe Trump has their best interests in mind even as he sticks it up their a** and calls it draining the swamp.

So be patient with them, hopefully there is still time to get them back from the brink. That is why I question them.

Remember-
“Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.”-Yoda

Posted by: j2t2 at November 16, 2017 1:01 PM
Comment #421652

warren / j2


So it was common knowledge that Moore had been banned form local malls back in the 80s for trying to pick up young girls, and it was the wapo that approached the original victim to convince her to come forward, but they knew nothing of Moore’s history before the primary ? Yeah….that sounds legit to me. Sounds like they were cultivating this story and waiting for the right time to bring it out when it would have the most impact. And yes that definitely shows a lack of journalistic ethics.

Posted by: dbs at November 16, 2017 1:13 PM
Comment #421653

j2

“I also wonder do you think the woman who accused Al Franken of groping her is lying as well? Do you think the media had this in que for a awhile as well?”

Is Franken up for re election next month ? Did he just win a primary, only to have this old story rear it’s ugly head when he was most vulnerable ? If the answer is yes, then the timing would be suspect.

BTW, I’m not accusing the victims of lying. I have no way of knowing whether the are or not. I’m accusing the liberal wapo of using the story as an October/November surprise. If strange had won we’d have never heard this story. That in of itself says a lot about the integrity of the wapo.

Posted by: dbs at November 16, 2017 1:23 PM
Comment #421655

Wow dbs that is a leap in logic isn’t it. The common knowledge was localized to the town. Do you really think the WaPo knew about it for years! Do you think it makes Moore less guilty when you shift the focus of the issue to the non-participants?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why this really matters. SO what if they knew about it before the primary does that excuse Moores actions with those under aged girls? Making the media the bad guy may sooth the resentment and anger you have towards the media for reporting the story about Moore but shooting the messenger still leaves the molester…oh ….I …get it.

I realize you keep trying to make this political or part of a leftist plot or whatever but you still need to remember no one but Roy Moore was responsible for his actions all those years ago.

So either call all the women liars, call the cop a liar or realize your boy Roy is lying. While you are at it what about the yearbook signature was it the ex-cop, the women, the media or Roy?


Posted by: j2t2 at November 16, 2017 1:57 PM
Comment #421657
So it was common knowledge that Moore had been banned form local malls back in the 80s for trying to pick up young girls

It was common knowledge in Etowah, AL. It was NOT common knowledge in Washington, DC where Stephanie McCrummin & Beth Reinhard are based.

it was the wapo that approached the original victim to convince her to come forward, but they knew nothing of Moore’s history before the primary ?

Why doesn’t this check out with you? The story was published 6 weeks after Moore won the runoff election. Presumably, The Washington Post sent its reporters to Eotwah, AL for the very first time right after that election. 6 weeks makes sense for how long it would take for the story to appear. Two weeks to arrive and do introductory sleuthing** before encountering the rumors plus another 3 or 4 weeks to do the investigatory homework and convince witnesses to go on the record.

**According to McCrummin in an NPR Interview, the original assignment was to interview Moore’s supporters:

I was in Alabama actually reporting another story on Roy Moore supporters, a story aiming to understand, you know, the basis of his support in the state. And it was at the end of a long conversation with someone there that these allegations surfaced. So none of these women - none of the women in this story sought out The Washington Post. No one promoted this story to The Washington Post. And all of the women went through quite a long process deciding whether to come forward.

You have to give me evidence that WaPo was on the ground in Etowah County, Alabama and digging deep into Moore’s past before the primary in order for your allegation to be serious.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 2:22 PM
Comment #421659

Should Franken step down now that allegations and a picture have surfaced?

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 16, 2017 2:28 PM
Comment #421660

Franken should resign barring the impending revelation of exculpatory evidence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 2:39 PM
Comment #421661

Warren Porter has told us that to make a decision is not to “convict”.

Of course, Warren is using the “Revised Dictionary for Liberals”. It is the same dictionary Bill Clinton used to define the word “is”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 16, 2017 3:05 PM
Comment #421662

My dictionary is Merriam-Webster’s, thank you very much. If you want to continue arguing that up is down and left is right, be my guest, but you are wrong, wrong and wrong. Making a decision to not support a person’s candidacy for elective office is not the same as convicting a person.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 3:12 PM
Comment #421663

This is what you call actual evidence, folks.

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2017/11/download-1.jpg

This is not an allegation, it is evidence.

See the difference?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 16, 2017 3:14 PM
Comment #421664

Hi Dave, I have provided the correct version of your screed.

“I can only hope that Flush’s defensive posture is…” an effort to persuade others to not rush to judgement.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 16, 2017 3:22 PM
Comment #421665

phx8 wrote addressing me; ““What do think? You have to make a decision here in real time…”

To make a decision of guilt is to “convict”.

To make a decision of innocence is to not “convict”.

Warren has to change sentence structure to attack me for my words.

That’s OK Warren. Let’s play some more.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 16, 2017 3:29 PM
Comment #421666

Sorry, Royal Flush, I do not play games with pretzels. Untangle yourself and answer the question Phx8 asked you (do you support Moore’s candidacy for elected office) and not the one you wish he asked (should Moore be incarcerated).

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 3:50 PM
Comment #421667

Poor Warren…skunked again and changes the subject.

I gave phx8 my answer. Read it.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 16, 2017 4:04 PM
Comment #421669

At least you’ve dropped the canard about being asked to “convict” Moore.

WW, at least has the balls to say that he still supports Moore’s candidacy in spite of the allegations. You, on the other hand, dodge the issue. You may not get a legal vote in Alabama, but nothing bars you from endorsing one candidate or the other.

Meanwhile, I gladly announce my support for Doug Jones’ candidacy. Jones is an upstanding gentleman with a distinguished career protecting the Constitution and defending the weak and vulnerable from those who wish them harm. Alabama will be well-served with him representing them in the United States Senate.

Too bad some Watchblog conservatives would rather support a yellow-dog than a Democrat.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 4:10 PM
Comment #421671

Meanwhile Warren, I don’t care who you support.

I don’t engage in such meaningless proclamations.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 16, 2017 4:23 PM
Comment #421672

I don’t support anyone in AL. I don’t live in AL. I also didn’t say I supported Moore. I simply draw the line at convicting someone in the media with only allegations. It’s easy to make allegations when they’re taken at face value. Hell, should we accuse Warren Porter of sexual assault and make him prove he his innocence just so we won’t have him contradict us here on WatchBlog? It doesn’t seem fair, does it? If we can do it to Moore, why is Warren Porter or any of us immune?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 16, 2017 4:33 PM
Comment #421673

Warped, Alabama will take care of their own Senate election and as far as support goes, I will support my own Senators NOT someone from another state.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 16, 2017 4:34 PM
Comment #421674
Franken should resign barring the impending revelation of exculpatory evidence. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 2:39 PM

There is no equivalency between an attempted rape of a 16 year old waitress, and a comedian almost touching the flack jacket of a 32 year old woman. She has worked with the likes of Hannity on a network famous for assaults on women and lying 24/7. Nothing happened at the fake news network, but Franken almost touched her, and that becomes a story. As for the rest of her story:

Franken responded stating “I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann….As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.”

Funny that she’s not complaining about this guy who is actually touching her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S17rVlf_YM

or Tom Arnold in part of another video, because that wouldn’t be politically motivated.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 16, 2017 4:55 PM
Comment #421676

WW,

A) I am not a candidate for elected office.

B) The women accusing Roy Moore of wrongdoing have more credibility than anonymous commenters on Watchblog

C) The accusations against Moore are corroborated by paper trails (Beverley Young Nelson’s yearbook & the court record showing Moore & Corfman met at the courthouse as alleged)

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2017 4:57 PM
Comment #421678

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/11/msm_ignoring_dem_candidate_for_congress_emarrestedem_for_stalking_a_woman.html

No, I wasn’t supporting anyone in AL. I was pointing out the hypocrisy on the left that is vividly obvious.

This Democratic was actually convicted in 2007 and arrested just this week yet we hear nothing from the MSM. Try to picture replacing the R with a D and the Democratic’s name in the same number of news story as has Moore’s. The idea seems totally foreign and near impossible, certainly unlikely. Most of us are now nodding heads thinking it ain’t gonna happen. That treatment is reserved for conservatives.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 16, 2017 6:08 PM
Comment #421679

And yet Alread want’s to extort action from congress by withholding that “paper trail” from scrutiny.

I’m also surprised you would segregate elected officials from the rest of us. That seems contradictory to the left’s equality mantra. If society can do it to a senate candidate it can certainly do it to you and me.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 16, 2017 6:16 PM
Comment #421696

Flush,
I meant what I said, you haven’t jumped on the crazy wagon. You didn’t deny what I asked, just deflected. I believe you recognize the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence is against Moore but aren’t prepared to break Ronnie’s rule of ‘say nothing bad about a republican’.
Baby steps, Flush, baby steps… It’s OK.

Posted by: Dave at November 17, 2017 2:50 PM
Comment #421698

Well Dave, do you know the difference between “evidence” and accusation?

Please tell us who has provided evidence under oath. Anything else is just an accusation.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 17, 2017 4:05 PM
Comment #421701
Franken should resign barring the impending revelation of exculpatory evidence.

No he shouldn’t. He apologized for an incident a decade ago, while on a USO tour as a comedian not while serving in the Senate. The picture in question seems to show a flak jacket between the hands and any bodyparts. While this sophomore humor is in bad taste I would suggest it doesn’t meet the “feel or fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will” definition of groping. Who knows what is real when it comes to the kissing thing? But lets not compare this, at most, sexual harassment on a single occasion with a combined sexual harassment and sexual assault on minors many times that Moore is accused of. It just isn’t the same thing.

While falling on his sword so liberals can claim the moral high ground may seem like a good idea, it isn’t. It won’t be a year before DC is cleared of Dems falling on their swords because a conservative political operative said he did this or that. The moral highground won’t do much good then.


Posted by: j2t2 at November 17, 2017 7:04 PM
Comment #421702

There is a difference between ACCUSATIONS and EVIDENCE j2. We have EVIDENCE on Franken and only ACCUSATIONS on Moore, which, IMO are damning, but still only ACCUSATIONS and until they are proven beyond a shadow of doubt will only remain ACCUSATIONS.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 17, 2017 7:50 PM
Comment #421705

All it takes is accusations, Rich KAPitan. I recently lost a position because of an accusation. Guess what? I still have yet to be told what that accusation was. I was repeatedly denied an answer to the question, “What was the complaint?”. I was denied any defense. The final charge was violating company policy.

The presumption of guilt exists in the workplace. There is no 4th or 5th amendment in the workplace. There is no 1st amendment in the workplace. There certainly is no 6th amendment in the workplace. It’s like the Bill of Rights is non-existent in the workplace.

How long do you think it will take before society is conditioned to react this way in the jury box.


Posted by: Weary Willie at November 17, 2017 9:38 PM
Comment #421706

That may work in the workplace W.W.but I doubt it will work in the court system. I think most people are privy to the games democrats have been playing.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 17, 2017 10:08 PM
Comment #421707
While falling on his sword so liberals can claim the moral high ground may seem like a good idea, it isn’t. It won’t be a year before DC is cleared of Dems falling on their swords because a conservative political operative said he did this or that. The moral highground won’t do much good then. Posted by: j2t2 at November 17, 2017 7:04 PM

This is a sick publicity stunt that went viral. People are embarrassing themselves if they believe this woman. Women don’t believe her. It doesn’t pass the smell test. Franken can’t say what he thinks of her without looking bad. I hope she’s raking in the dough for her 15 minutes.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 17, 2017 10:12 PM
Comment #421708

Think about what our court system would look like 20 years from now if this atmosphere continues. Look how fast people accepted gay marriage. How long could it take for people to forget about innocent until proven guilty? I think we’re really far down that path already.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 17, 2017 10:17 PM
Comment #421709

The sad part of all this is, it never gets into a court of law.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 17, 2017 10:17 PM
Comment #421710

And that court of law, Rich/Richard KAPitan, can you remember at any time a jury was hung on all 18 charges? I don’t think it was an all or nothing situation! C’mon, that says something about our judicial system.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 17, 2017 10:23 PM
Comment #421711

WW,I agree that our court system in some places leaves a lot to be desired, especially with all the liberal activist judges we have in the federal court system. On that Menendez trial the judge disallowed some of the charges such as the s*x with a minor charge but that also may be brought up in the senate ethics committee so I hope the sleaze Menendez gets his one way or the other.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 17, 2017 10:38 PM
Comment #421712

Also we may finally see the cleaning out of Congress $15 million already paid out for the sleeze bags in D.C. 235 cases that no one has heard about. Hopefully their names will come out.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 18, 2017 1:34 AM
Comment #421720
We have EVIDENCE on Franken and only ACCUSATIONS on Moore, which, IMO are damning, but still only ACCUSATIONS and until they are proven beyond a shadow of doubt will only remain ACCUSATIONS.

What evidence do you have on Franken? The picture? As I said does it meet the definition of groping?

Moore signed a yearbook of someone he claims he never meant. Isn’t that evidence of lying?

A shadow of a doubt is a high standard for something that isn’t going to see a courtroom KAP. That standard you hold repubs to allows for the lying and denying that we see from Moore. The loss of integrity, the dishonesty is sickening yet acceptable to conservatives as they cover up a serial sexual assaulter and harasser. It isn’t to many of us.

What you and our conservative friends here on WB seem to be doing is saying all of these women are lying but Moore isn’t. You claim they are part of a WaPo plot yet you have zero evidence. You accuse but you have no evidence, yet you believe Moore over all these women.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 18, 2017 9:24 AM
Comment #421721
The presumption of guilt exists in the workplace. There is no 4th or 5th amendment in the workplace. There is no 1st amendment in the workplace. There certainly is no 6th amendment in the workplace. It’s like the Bill of Rights is non-existent in the workplace.

You act surprised when your ideology comes back and bites you on the a** Weary. There never was any of these rights in the workplace, as close as we got was unions. You guys have all but abolished them.

Corporations have always been a dictatorship and you guys now think we need these dictators in the government. What do you think Trump is?

Posted by: j2t2 at November 18, 2017 9:48 AM
Comment #421724

J2, I want facts not accusations. It is easy to make an accusation, I can accuse you of murder but is it true? It can ruin your life until the accusation is proven false. If the ACCUSATIONS prove FACTUAL Moore should drop out. Not defending anyone but this sort of S**T has been going on far to long in politics by both sides.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 18, 2017 11:32 AM
Comment #421725

I don’t know, j2t2. You were in favor of someone dictating who people should share a bathroom with. You were in favor of someone ignoring immigration laws. You were ready and willing to destroy the credibility of anyone opposed to smuggling weapons to drug cartels and terrorist organizations.

Who’s the real dictator, j2t2?

In one breath the left says the military is running our government and Trump is on the sidelines. You can’t have it both ways, j2t2. How are you going to reconcile your calling Trump a dictator and saying he’s a puppet of the military in the same breath?

I don’t think Trump is a dictator because he’s reversing the actions of one who comes much closer to acting like a dictator.

There was once a time when people could crack jokes in the workplace. That’s gone. There was a time when people could speak their mind outside the workplace without consequences. There was a time when people could speak the truth without being punished for offending someone. Unions had nothing to do with holding that bay. That behavior became prominent in the courts and congress bending to the whims of the squeaky wheels turning the grievance industry machine.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 18, 2017 11:45 AM
Comment #421727

“Moore signed a yearbook of someone he claims he never meant. Isn’t that evidence of lying?”

No j2t2, he claims it isn’t his signature.

“…conservatives as they cover up a serial sexual assaulter and harasser…”

Really j2t2, COVER UP? Please explain. Who is covering up what?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2017 2:47 PM
Comment #421728

Democratics have been covering for a serial rapist for over 3 decades.

Democratics have covered for a KKK Grand Dragon

Democratics have been covering up drunk driving resulting in death for half a century.

Obvious hypocrisy and double standards at work here. I can’t believe people are still loyal to the Democratic party. Free stuff must be a potent elixir for guilt, I guess.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 18, 2017 3:07 PM
Comment #421733
No j2t2, he claims it isn’t his signature.

I know Royal, Moore has been lying and denying the entire time. Earlier in this thread I asked who faked his signature, do you think it was the WaPo, the women who owns the yearbook, the dems, the lawyer? Who? If you believe Moore then at least one of them must have committed fraud.

Really j2t2, COVER UP? Please explain. Who is covering up what?

Conservatives here on WB for starters, as well as conservatives in Alabama who continue to back the man. It seems not many repubs in DC support this guy anymore but movement followers sure seem to.

Lets face it Royal. Your side is selling this line- All of the women are engaged with the WaPo and the Dems in a massive case of fraud. They are all lying the yearbook is faked and the claims have no merit.

Of course you guys aren’t as upfront you couch you words in uncertainty. As examples-

“There is a difference between ACCUSATIONS and EVIDENCE j2.”

(So I don’t have to believe anything these women say because an eyewitness doesn’t count.Why didn’t those young girls save a semen sample if this is true.)

“Not defending anyone but this sort of S**T has been going on far to long in politics by both sides.”

(So it must be a lie because it has supposedly happened before…right? I would rather tie these women into some vague schemes from the past so I can justify my rationalization!)

“Please tell us who has provided evidence under oath. Anything else is just an accusation.”

(Because I was told there is a fake media and so all stories must be a lie. All these women are part of some mass hysteria is my rationalization, we need a judge and a used condom to make sure all these women aren’t lying. Because WaPo reporters cannot be trusted)

“BTW, I’m not accusing the victims of lying. I have no way of knowing whether the are or not. I’m accusing the liberal wapo of using the story as an October/November surprise.”

(Although I am saying just that, they are lying because the WaPo is involved. So Koore must be right and all of them wrong because it is an October surprise!)

So yes conservatives cover up Moore with this type of vague assertions. I mean you guys must know this isn’t going to trial. Yet you demand evidence, but a signed yearbook isn’t good enough because the man who has lied and denied said it wasn’t his signature. You expect us to believe some or all of these people are engaged in a conspiracy to forge his signature 30 years ago. Or this group of accusers are so dumb they think they can sign this yearbook today and fool someone.

But I say lets bring it out into the open, which of these women are lying? You guys accuse WaPo of knowing this for years and waiting until now yet have no proof they have done this. Further you guys then give no credence to the info Warren posted explaining how this story came about. Which dems are involved in this?

So yes coverup Royal. You guys have brought up Clinton, Kennedy,Thurmond and Franken to further confuse the issues.IMHO it is time for you guys to answer some questions. Or admit what I have long thought and recently stated, it could be Hitler or a child molester and a dem and you would vote for Hitler or the child molester using any excuse available. as you guys have done in this thread.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 18, 2017 5:39 PM
Comment #421735

Moore decides against the victims in favor of their abusers:

D…. P……, who had pleaded guilty to the rape of a 12-year-old girl.

S…… T…, a school mentor who was convicted of coercing two 15-year-old female students to touch him sexually.

a daycare center intern convicted of raping a four-year-old boy and accused of assaulting several other young children.

J…. W…, who was convicted of raping a graduate student while she slept, leaving her bound and blindfolded.

a school police officer convicted of having s*x with a 17-year-old student.

R….. S……. who was convicted of first-degree sodomy and first-degree sexual abuse of a six-year-old girl.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/14/roy-moore-alabama-law-rape-victims-judge Posted by: ohrealy at November 18, 2017 6:10 PM
Comment #421736

“…Moore has been lying and denying the entire time.

Sorry j2t2, where is your proof?

I asked; “Who is covering up what?”

j2t2 claims that; “Conservatives here on WB for starters, as well as conservatives in Alabama who continue to back the man.” So now, according to j2, backing Moore is a coverup. How interesting. Please tell me what I have written about Moore that would constitute a “coverup”.

j2t2 is so rattled and confused that he now writes that not accusing Judge Moore of something without evidence makes me likely to vote for Hitler or a child molester.

How often have we heard the statement, mostly by my Liberal Pals, that they would rather 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be found guilty.

Yet, here we have the Left arguing that Judge Moore must be guilty of something because some people have said so.

No admission of guilt, no testimony under oath, no proof of anything, yet; no doubt because this man is conservative, he must be guilty.

God save us from such lynch-mob mentality.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2017 6:11 PM
Comment #421737

Here’s a quote from the “Guardian” link above.

“Moore’s decisions were mostly in agreement with the majority of the court’s judges.”

I found the article very interesting. It seems that in some cases, Judge Moore favored the defendants Constitutional rights over Alabama rules regarding protecting the history of minor age victims.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 18, 2017 6:27 PM
Comment #421740

J2, I just googled men that were wrongly accused of being a s×x offender and there are plenty of cases where men were WRONGLY accused. If there is proof that Moore is an offender then he should step down but this he said she said crap is not proof.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 18, 2017 7:52 PM
Comment #421741

Racist rapist dotards must be protected at all cost, otherwise the right wingers might get their jello without any cool whip on top.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 18, 2017 8:11 PM
Comment #421743

Royal Flush is awfully confused. He thinks dropping out of a Senate race is the same thing as going to prison. Poor Royal Flush, maybe one of his conservative friends can help him out?

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 18, 2017 8:48 PM
Comment #421744

Neither one matters if he’s innocent.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 18, 2017 10:56 PM
Comment #421745
J2, I just googled men that were wrongly accused of being a s×x offender and there are plenty of cases where men were WRONGLY accused.

So using conservative logic it appears Moore is also innocent because someone else was wrongly accused. Tell you what KAP seeings as you googled this, how many of these plenty of cases had 7 women come forward to accuse the guy?

How many more diversions must we suffer at the hands of conservatives covering for Moore?

Sorry j2t2, where is your proof?

Probably the same place the answers you refuse to give to the previously asked questions are Royal, up you a**.

j2t2 is so rattled and confused that he now writes that not accusing Judge Moore of something without evidence makes me likely to vote for Hitler or a child molester.

Royal with this kind of nonsensical gibberish you may think you have diverted attention from the issue, but lets not kid ourselves as to what was actually said. This is a type of cover up this inane twisting of words. Should you get a grasp on your integrity why not deal with who forged the signature as Moore claimed. Or which of these women lied or did all of them? You skirt these questions with this childish banter instead of answering, Isn’t that covering for Moore.


God save us from such lynch-mob mentality

And while he is saving us can he save us from this line of crap Royal? No one is lynching him he won’t even serve a day in jail. The question is should a man of such low moral character be serving the country as a Senator? Wouldn’t a man with any integrity have stepped up and accepted responsibility for his actions.

Posted by: j2t2 at November 18, 2017 11:07 PM
Comment #421746

J2 do you live in a country where you are guilty until proven innocent or do you live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. From all the BULLS**T that has been going on in the political realm it wouldn’t surprise me those 7 women were paid to lie which wouldn’t surprise me considering the sleaze bags we have running both parties. It also wouldn’t surprise me that the Republican party is doing the payoffs. Like I have been saying I’ll wait for the facts not just jump to a judgement because of accusations. I know it is hard for you to understand but in this country people are innocent until proven guilty.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at November 18, 2017 11:44 PM
Comment #421749

Roy Moore is innocent until proven guilty. Nevertheless, he ought to quit the Senate race unless he demonstrates exculpatory evidence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 8:25 AM
Comment #421750

This whole episode reeks of hypocrisy. It is finally coming out and is as obvious as the day is long. Democratics and the people who support them are hypocrites.

Democratics and media are silent on Menendez throughout his ordeal. We also have a Democratic Corrine Brown convicted on 18 counts of fraud and not a peep.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/11/democrat_steals_from_charity_then_pleads_for_mercy.html

Was she drummed out of congress? Was she guilty until proven innocent by the media and congress? Not a word except for Pelosi’s “deeply saddening” remark. Pure hypocrisy.

We also have Sheila Jackson Lee praising Brown at her sentencing. Where’s the outrage, the indignation? She’s happy to take a knee on the house floor against Trump, but praises a convicted Democratic who steals from charities. Pure hypocrisy.

Where are the honest Democratics in all this? Perhaps they’ve become the new silent minority.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 10:35 AM
Comment #421752

Menendez is facing trial for his alleged crimes. Where is the hypocrisy?

Backbench congress people are never going to get the same media attention as US Senate candidates. Bringing these up is just an effort to distract from your continued support for an accused molester.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 11:29 AM
Comment #421753

How nice of you to say “accused”. Since you can’t say convicted when Democratics are involved, perhaps it’s the word you disagree with.

Back bench, that’s funny. Roy Moore was backbench until he was nominated. He’s from Alabama, for goodness sakes! How much more back bench can you get?

The hypocrisy lies in the fact that the Menendez trial was an obscure side note as far as the media and the Democratic party is concerned. He’s not placed in the same category as an “accused” person on the right. Menendez would be a forgotten blip of a nothing burger if the right wing media wasn’t present.

Brown is the same way. There was no daily coverage of her crimes. There was no speculation throughout her trial. Where’s the outrage? Where’s the scorn? Aren’t Democratics subject to ridicule when they commit real crimes?

Accused is a correct term, Warren Porter. He was accused weeks before his election. He was accused by a people who weren’t offended for 30 years. He was accused by people who don’t even know him.(you) As far as I’m concerned, the Roy Moore fiasco is a bought and paid for smear campaign.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 11:52 AM
Comment #421757
Roy Moore was backbench until he was nominated

Exactly. Moore became a national figure on September 27 and that prompted the WaPo investigation that led to this story.

He’s not placed in the same category as an “accused” person on the right

Neither Menendez nor Brown have been accused of molesting teenage girls. That’s why we aren’t treating them like an accused molester.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 12:09 PM
Comment #421758

You’re not treating them as anything! That’s where the hypocrisy comes in, Warren Porter!

Kennedy’s drunken behavior resulted in a woman’s death and the left propped him up as a “Lion of the Senate” his entire career. What would happen if a Conservative left a woman to die in a river?

And before you bring up the “They do it too” defense I’ll remind you there’s no hesitation to you using it when it suits your position. I’ve heard it from your own words.

All men are created equal, Warren Porter. Some are not back bench, some are not less or more. The House and the Senate are equal branches of government. You are saying a convicted criminal is better than an accused criminal. You should join the others in your party and start throwing your criminals under the bus for real convictions instead of manufacturing allegations for political purposes against your political opponents.


Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 12:30 PM
Comment #421761
What would happen if a Conservative left a woman to die in a river?

Not much.

You’re not treating them as anything! That’s where the hypocrisy comes in, Warren Porter!

I’m treating them for what they are. You are trying to treat them worse than they are in order to preserve some false sense of parity with Roy Moore, who is in an objectively different situation.

All men are created equal,

Out of context argument in 3…2…1

Not all crimes are created equal nor are all accusations created equal. Likewise, the crimes of a Senator or a candidate are always going to be more newsworthy than something done by a congressperson with comparatively less influence and power.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 1:18 PM
Comment #421763

A candidate has zero power. You are replacing Senator with Republican and Congressperson with Democratic. I’m surprised you would consider a black, woman congressperson less than a white, senate candidate. Shame, Shame.

I just had to throw that in there, because there is no difference between the two unless you are consider the fact one is a conservative and one is a Democratic. Had they both been conservative you would condemn both equally. Since you don’t consider them equal I can only believe you are making partisan considerations your only qualifier.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 1:26 PM
Comment #421766

If a Democrat running for an open Senate seat faced accusations of molestation from 9 women, I’d ask that Democrat to leave the race just like I’ve asked Roy Moore. This is a moral issue, not a partisan one.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 1:42 PM
Comment #421767

No, it’s a partisan one. You are placing the cart before the horse by forcing a punishment onto someone before guilt is established. You refuse to do the same when Democratics are accused. You still have not demanded Brown, Menendez, Hillbilly, any Democratic to step aside when accused. Your party refuses to acknowledge any shortcomings of the late Senators Kennedy or Byrd, or President Clinton. I watched that guy have a perjury charge ignored by the entire nation because he was a Democratic.

By your standards, Hillbilly should have never got into the race because she had been accused of committing crimes, many more crimes than what Moore is being accused of. Why didn’t you insist she resign when she was accused, Warren Porter? Why didn’t you insist she resign for the good of the party?

It can’t be a moral issue, Warren Porter. Democratics brag about their lack of morality. No, this is a partisan attack for partisan reasons.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 2:13 PM
Comment #421770
You refuse to do the same when Democratics are accused

I just said I would do the same if Democrats were accused of similar behavior.

Neither Menendez nor Brown have ever faced accusations of inappropriate relationships with almost a dozen teenage girls.

any shortcomings of the late Senators Kennedy or Byrd, or President Clinton
I acknowledge the shortcomings of all those men. Now what?
By your standards, Hillbilly should have never got into the race because she had been accused of committing crimes, many more crimes than what Moore is being accused of. Why didn’t you insist she resign when she was accused, Warren Porter? Why didn’t you insist she resign for the good of the party?

In case you forgot, I advocated voting for one of Hillary Clinton’s opponents during the 2016 election.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 3:15 PM
Comment #421771

No they haven’t. Brown was actually convicted. Where was your outrage when she was accused? Where was your calls for Menendez to step down when he was missing dozens of votes because he was sitting in front of a judge?

Your double standards are shining like a full moon, Warren Porter. You think accusations are more important than guilty verdicts. Not once did you write a post about Menendez or Brown or any other Democratic on the wrong side of the law.

So what, you wouldn’t vote for Hillbilly? That should have made it easier for you to haul up your morality banner and insist she goes packing, but you didn’t. You ignored it. You badmouthed her opponent at every turn while hiding behind your proclamation. A real tough guy, right?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 3:35 PM
Comment #421772
No they haven’t. Brown was actually convicted. Where was your outrage when she was accused? Where was your calls for Menendez to step down when he was missing dozens of votes because he was sitting in front of a judge?

When nearly a dozen women accuse Menendez or Brown of inappropriate relationships with teenage girls, I will be outraged. Until then, I am under no obligation to treat the situation the same way I treat Roy Moore.

That said, you might want to know that Brown lost the 2016 Democratic primary in her own district mere months after the accusations regarding her financial crimes came to light. Sounds like the Democratic party does a decent job keeping its own members accountable. Because she was merely one of 435 representatives and not somebody of note nationally, this was mostly a local story.

Menendez, on the other hand, just escaped conviction due to a hung jury. If twelve of his peers cannot unanimously find the charges against him credible, why should I?

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 3:59 PM
Comment #421773

“The question is should a man of such low moral character be serving the country as a Senator?”

Only j2t2, and his Pals will proclaim charges such as this against another citizen in this fashion with no proof.

I would remind him that President Clinton served as president after being impeached and admitting to lying to the American people numerous times and under oath to congress.

I neither approve of or condemn Judge Moore as I have not heard any testimony under oath or seen any proven evidence. That some folks wish to apply tactics used by tyrants does not make it right.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2017 4:13 PM
Comment #421774

Warren Porter wants to silence those he disagrees with. Warren Porter refuses to acknowledge the shortcomings of his own party. Warren Porter is willing to condemn people on hearsay and accusations.

I wonder if Warren Porter realizes what he is supporting, because he is sounding more and more like a tyrant king. Pity the U.S. when us old, white, men are gone and buried.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 4:35 PM
Comment #421775

“Menendez, on the other hand, just escaped conviction due to a hung jury. If twelve of his peers cannot unanimously find the charges against him credible, why should I?”

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 3:59 PM

Glad you asked Warren. Menendez got to face his accusers, under oath, in a courtroom in front of a jury. Yet, nearly anyone would admit, the charges (not mere accusations) against him were serious. Did the senate demand that he relinquish his senate seat?

The accusations against Judge Moore are serious. Yet, some wish him to be barred from even taking his seat in the senate should he win. Warren Porter, and others, have proclaimed him guilty, and should leave the race, by merely the seriousness of the accusations.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2017 4:35 PM
Comment #421780

He also insinuates 12 jurors found the charges incredible. However, to have a hung jury you must have some of the jurors did find them to be credible charges. Why does Warren Porter insist all 12 jurors, (his assumption) found the charges incredible?

The question of how many jurors felt Menendez was guilty of any of the 18 counts against him should be answered. What I find incredible is a lack of unanimous decision on all 18 counts! The prosecutor must be embarrassed.

Perhaps he just took one for the team.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 4:52 PM
Comment #421782

RF,

It’s not just the seriousness of the charge but the credibility of the accusation. The fact that many women who never knew each other before this month have come together to launch these accusations lends credibility that is absent in the Menendez situation.

If people want Moore to be incarcerated for what he did, he will get the same chance to face his accusers, under oath, in front of a jury that Menendez got. I do not advocate putting men in jail without due process. I only suggest that people in Alabama take the accusations into consideration when casting their ballot as anyone accused of molesting teenage girls ought to be disqualified from holding such a prestigious office.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 4:57 PM
Comment #421784

“…these accusations lends credibility that is absent in the Menendez situation.”

Warren Porter, do you realize that you just wrote that accusations lend more credibility than actual legal charges?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2017 5:02 PM
Comment #421786

Yet raping women in hotel rooms is what…? An oops moment?

Aww, he didn’t really mean it. It wasn’t really rape rape.

Said a partisan Democratic hack protecting their own.

If people want Moore to be incarcerated for what he did, he will get the same chance to face his accusers, under oath, in front of a jury that Menendez got.

You said this was a moral issue, not a criminal one. It’s funny you should say that, but you did! Why now do you want Moore in front of a jury? Will it make your accusations any more valid? The last thing you guys want is a jury trial on this one.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 5:10 PM
Comment #421787

Yes, sometimes accusations are more credible than legal charges. 9 different women who have never met before don’t make accusations up. The legal case against Menendez is less concrete, hence the mistrial.

You said this was a moral issue, not a criminal one. It’s funny you should say that, but you did! Why now do you want Moore in front of a jury? Will it make your accusations any more valid? The last thing you guys want is a jury trial on this one.
IF. Ww, do you not know the meaning of IF? If people want to make a criminal case out of Moore, they need to go through the formal process of bringing charges and holding a trial with a jury of Moore’s peers. It not, it remains solely a moral issue, one that should induce Alabamans to not vote for this accused molester. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2017 5:39 PM
Comment #421790

“Yes, sometimes accusations are more credible than legal charges.”

Many thanks Warren. No further comment by me is necessary as you have revealed your base thinking.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 19, 2017 6:06 PM
Comment #421793

A lot of his thinking scares me. Hopefully he will gain an understanding of what’s right and wrong as he grows older.

I don’t see you going through the formal process, Warren Porter. You are condemning the man on the word of people who have waited 30 years to speak, who have provided no evidence to back up their assertions, and are in fact, keeping information from scrutiny to extort action from congress! Doesn’t that raise a question with you? Or, is that standard operating procedure for Democratics now?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 19, 2017 7:18 PM
Comment #421803

When it comes to sexual harassment, it is very common for people to not speak up. Just look at the harsh criticism the right has flung at these women in the last few weeks. Imagine what would have happened to them 35 years ago when they were still just children. Moore was a prominent prosecutor, they were nobodies and people had a great deal more tolerance for sexual harassment back then.

who have provided no evidence to back up their assertions
Yearbook?
Doesn’t that raise a question with you

The plurality of the accusations enhances their credibility along with the paper trail backing up specific claims (such as Leigh Corfman’s presence at the courthouse when she said she was there).

are in fact, keeping information from scrutiny to extort action from congress
I am not familiar with this. Please let me know what undisclosed information you refer to.
I don’t see you going through the formal process, Warren Porter.

Deciding whether or not one endorses a candidate for elected office doesn’t require formal judicial review. It can be done merely on a whim.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2017 12:13 AM
Comment #421805

Gloria Allred has said she will turn over the yearbook to a senate committee that hasn’t even been formed yet. She expects the senate to convene a panel to address these charges and when they do she will surrender the yearbook.

That sounds like extortion to me. Either that, or the yearbook is a prop and she does not want it examined.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 20, 2017 12:22 AM
Comment #421806

People being in the same building at the same time does not prove the assertions, Warren Porter. I’m surprised you have been making an argument on such flimsy assertions.

I told my 14 year old neighbor her new haircut looks hot. Did I molest her in saying so? Am I guilty of sexual harrassment, rape? According to your logic, I am!

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 20, 2017 12:26 AM
Comment #421815
I told my 14 year old neighbor her new haircut looks hot. Did I molest her in saying so? Am I guilty of sexual harrassment, rape? According to your logic, I am!

Did the 14 year old claim you molested her? No? Then please stop wasting my time.

People being in the same building at the same time does not prove the assertions, Warren Porter. I’m surprised you have been making an argument on such flimsy assertions.

If Leigh Corfman was lying, what are the chances she’d correctly identify the date in which she and Roy Moore met in 1979? Slim to none, so the fact that the date checks out makes her claims more credible.

Gloria Allred has said she will turn over the yearbook to a senate committee that hasn’t even been formed yet. She expects the senate to convene a panel to address these charges and when they do she will surrender the yearbook.

That sounds like extortion to me. Either that, or the yearbook is a prop and she does not want it examined.

Apart from the Senate ethics committee, who else is qualified to examine the yearbook?

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2017 9:59 AM
Comment #421817
Only j2t2, and his Pals will proclaim charges such as this against another citizen in this fashion with no proof.

And only men like Royal tell us these women cannot be proof. What they say doesn’t count. Seven strangers all got together to scheme against Moore! To publicly commit fraud.

J2 do you live in a country where you are guilty until proven innocent or do you live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty.

I live in a country that also has a statue of limitations for most crimes KAP. That shouldn’t stop the voters in Alabama from taking into account this “values” candidates character when it comes time to vote.

From all the BULLS**T that has been going on in the political realm it wouldn’t surprise me those 7 women were paid to lie which wouldn’t surprise me considering the sleaze bags we have running both parties.

Have you stopped to consider that using such poor logic is exactly why we have “sleaze bags we have running both parties”.

It also wouldn’t surprise me that the Republican party is doing the payoffs.

Seems to me you are demonstrating “I can believe anything so I will believe nothing” logic KAP.


Like I have been saying I’ll wait for the facts not just jump to a judgement because of accusations.

Seeings we know there will be no court date anytime soon KAP according to you we should blame the WaPo for reporting on the first women because they didn’t get a court date. We should let Breitbart be the arbitrator of “facts” because..statue of limitations!

I know it is hard for you to understand but in this country people are innocent until proven guilty.

Whats hard for me to believe KAP is this nonsensical logic you use to rationalize voting for Moore. No trial is forthcoming yet you wait for one so you can have “facts”. Because you choose to elect sleaze bags because you can believe anything, anything but…but the woman that…2 women who…3 women that have…4 women….5 women with ….6 women ……

Posted by: j2t2 at November 20, 2017 10:25 AM
Comment #421819

Al Franken’s gotta go: http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2017 11:17 AM
Comment #421820

j2, I don’t care if there are 100 women making accusations they still have to be proven. I can accuse you of murder but does that make it true? As far as Moore is concerned it is up to the voters in Alabama to decide if he or the women are lying I have no say so in that matter, the only thing I can do is voice my opinion on the ACCUSATIONS. As far as the sleaze bags in D. C. go I think term limits are in order. Also if just one of those ACCUSATIONS prove true Moore should step down.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 20, 2017 11:27 AM
Comment #421821

Ah, good to see that the left is still ignoring historical context and their own hypocrisy in order to push this out of control PC nonsense.

What’s funny, is that just last year the left was dismissing, ignoring and making excuses to defend themselves from politically harmful accusations.

Posted by: kctim at November 20, 2017 11:43 AM
Comment #421825

“Al Franken’s gotta go”

You guys are ridiculous.

Posted by: kctim at November 20, 2017 1:00 PM
Comment #421826

The woman in the court remembers the date because it was the day her mother got divorced. That’s why she was there. That’s why her mother left her in the hallway. Her mother trusted Moore to watch over her, if that happened at all. She made no claim of impropriety to her mother and her mother reported no impropriety at the time. They both waited 30 years. And like you said, the statute of limitations is expired. There is no point in this other than to smear Moore politically. Punishment for the alleged crime is not the motive. If it was it would have occurred 30 years ago.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 20, 2017 1:35 PM
Comment #421827
Al Franken’s gotta go: http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2017 11:17 AM

You’ve got to be kidding. Do you understand who the people are that are accusing him, racist birthers and far right wing partisans. Roger Stone knew about this one before she “came out”. Do you know how we know that they are being solicited to make these accusations? Because that’s what they’re accusing in the case of Roy Moore’s accusers. They always accuse the other guy of doing what they’re doing.

Posted by: ohrealy at November 20, 2017 1:42 PM
Comment #421828

“When it comes to sexual harassment, it is very common for people to not speak up.”

I am always impressed by those like Warren Porter who say they know the “unknowable”. If no one speaks up, how do we know?

“Seven strangers all got together to scheme against Moore! To publicly commit fraud.”

Once again some are impressed by the number of accusations. When we get to “ten strangers” accusations, will they automatically evolve into “fact”?

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 20, 2017 2:31 PM
Comment #421831

ohrealy if finally getting it. Good for you, ohrealy!

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 20, 2017 3:45 PM
Comment #421836
I am always impressed by those like Warren Porter who say they know the “unknowable”. If no one speaks up, how do we know?

Please don’t be dense, Royal Flush. While it is common for the victims of sexual harassment & abuse to avoid seeking formal redress in the courts or HR department, it is very common for them to talk about the incidents with friends and intimate partners. Indeed, part of why the allegations brought by Leigh Corfman are so compelling has to do with the fact that multiple childhood friends have verified that Corfman had shared details of the incident to them many decades ago. The same goes for Corfman’s ex-husband.

When we get to “ten strangers” accusations, will they automatically evolve into “fact”
No. Without testimony under oath, we cannot say for a fact what happened between Moore and these women 35 years ago. All we can say is that the allegations are credible enough to dissuade anyone with smidgen of morality from supporting Roy Moore’s candidacy. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 20, 2017 7:01 PM
Comment #421837

Stop writing “densely” obtuse sentences Warren and we will understand your meaning.


Posted by: Royal Flush at November 20, 2017 7:27 PM
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