Nothing is Sacred in The Culture Wars

Nothing is off bounds in the culture wars, especially as they apply to this administration and its relationship with the media and with the opposition. And that includes those in uniform killed in combat.

You are damned for not making the call soon enough, then you are damned for making the call because of awkward phrasing that is not nearly as awkward when the whole conversation is viewed. But that no longer matters. Now it's the case of Sergeant David T. Johnson, one of the four Green Berets killed in an ambush in Nigeria. The president didn't make the phone call to his widow until she was on her way to meet her son's casket in Miami. But is there any good time to make that sort of a call?

Kelly apparently advised Trump not to make those calls, or to make them as seldom as possible.

So when the call was made, the widow claimed the president had insulted her and her fallen husband and the soldier's mother. It quickly devolved into a he said / she said media tennis match with Florida Democrat Congresswoman Fredrica Wilson - who was in the vehicle with the family when the call was made - heaping the abuse on Trump until John Kelly finally shamed her into at least a temporary silence. Of course that was also after President Trump used Kelly's own son, who died in combat in Afghanistan, as a way to attack Obama's presidency.

What are the ties that bind across a cavernous partisan divide if even a fallen soldier is instant fodder for attack. From both sides? The president's invoking his own Chief of Staff's fallen son - Lt. Robert M. Kelly - is as damaging as Congresswoman Wilson's politicizing of the phone call. When Kelly gave his press conference he said this:

Let's not let this maybe last thing that's held sacred in our society, a young man, young woman, going out and giving his or her life for our country, let's try to keep that sacred. But it eroded a great deal yesterday by the selfish behavior of a member of Congress.

Not only a member of Congress.

A lack of trust in institutions, save the military. An increasing lack of faith in family. An increasing hostility to faith itself. The absolute, unconditional right to abortion. Can America function when nothing is sacred anymore? Nothing at all? Sure, it can and will function. But do we really have to tear down the sacred to find out what that will be like?

Posted by Keeley at October 20, 2017 6:28 PM
Comments
Comment #420817

Non-existant Keeley, your information is incorrect. A group of people in shock were on their way to pick up the remains of a soldier whose name you can’t even get right. They had been informed he was not in a state to be viewed. They were concerned about what had happened that he was not only dead, but in such a state, in addition to being left behind to be recovered by foreign nationals. Then they got a call from an idiot who has no empathy, and is unable to express any sympathy towards another human being. He also didn’t appear to know the name of the soldier at all, or know how to use words appropriately. Maybe he doesn’t speak English at home. He probably repeated, in garbled form, words that someone else told him to say. He should have heeded Kelly’s advice not to make the call, but he boxed himself into a corner with a bunch of lies, and thought calling was a way of solving the problem that he had created for himself.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 20, 2017 7:14 PM
Comment #420819

Keeley, are we seeing all these Leftist demons suddenly appearing due to an exorcism?

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 20, 2017 7:31 PM
Comment #420821

Keeley, I disagree that ‘America’, as we know it can survive pure democracy, socialism and so on …

We know no democracy has lasted beyond 200 years.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/45rud0/list_of_failed_socialist_states_and_movements/

With this last election we just dodged a strong dive toward socialism. The left has worked for 50 years to rewrite the Constitution in support of pure democracy/socialism. The left political regime basically ignores the Constitution and the laws of this country. Illegal immigration, sanctuary cities, taking campaign donations from foreign entities, selling political favor a la ‘nuclear one’, ignoring communications security rules and regs to hide their communications, ad infinitum …

What countries ended up with the classified communications stored on Hillary’s commo? Where are the uranium yellow cakes purchased by the Soviets? The left gives a whit about national security. They disabuse laws in the determination to win at the ballot box and gain long term control of gov’t.

I posted in the red column an hour ago that Deputy FBI, Mueller, McCabe, Holder, ex-attnygen, Comey, Hillary and Bill, Obama and a host of others need to be brought to justice. When Sessions is free to operate I believe justice will be served in most cases.

In order to invoke their socialist agenda the left needs to seed propaganda divisive in content. They have done this using Russian fronts and media outlets. They practice identity politics, black against white and so on, and convince folks that they need the gov’t to protect them from each other.

Venezuela is the latest example of a socialist failed state. Took them about 5 years to crash.

Had the dems won the last election, given amnesty to illegal immigrants and doubled border crossings we might have been unable to block them at the voting booth. We could have gone to hell in a hand basket.

If Trump gets control of immigration and wins a second term our survival rate would rise dramatically. But, we did dodge a real challenge to our democratic-republic, IMO.

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Comment #420857

Fake Roy Ellis, commercial spam is following you around. Your comments here are as paranoid and delusional as the people you tout as your sources. Your nazi blood and soil rhetoric is Un-American, as you have proved that you are since you took over writing under the name of “Roy Ellis”.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 20, 2017 11:33 PM
Comment #420861

orealy
Here’s a novel Idea. Try responding without a personal insult. Bet you can’t do it.

Please tell us all what your prediction is. That is always a hoot. HRC45, oh wait……………Lol

Posted by: dbs at October 21, 2017 8:47 AM
Comment #420862

President Trump talking to the family of a fallen service member. These disgusting liberals will do anything to discredit him, including the daily barrage of lies. Freedrica Wilson is a true POS.

http://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/gold-star-widow-releases-trump-phone-call-full-audio/?utm_source=rm&utm_campaign=alt&utm_medium=facebook

Posted by: dbs at October 21, 2017 9:03 AM
Comment #420864

What’s the personal insult? That Fake Roy Ellis is a blood and soil nazi? That’s a statement base on his writings here, which clearly indicate that. It’s like Steve Scalise saying that he’s not in the KKK, although he agrees with them on everything.

The POS has already discredited himself over and over. Right winger only confront his garbage when they no longer have to run for re-election, or are dying. He sent Kelly out to lie about Frederica Wilson, and wingnuts all fall in line like obedient subjects.

We’ll eventually find out what happened in Niger, how our foreign policy is being run by Exxon now, and the right wingers will complain that we’re picking on them by talking about reality instead of their discredited fake news.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 10:04 AM
Comment #420865

“What’s the personal insult? That Fake Roy Ellis is a blood and soil nazi? That’s a statement base on his writings here, which clearly indicate that. It’s like Steve Scalise saying that he’s not in the KKK, although he agrees with them on everything.”

The first paragraph should be sufficient. Thanks for making my point.

Our foreign policy as compared to what, the Obama administrations foreign policy which amounted to having his tongue in everyone’s a$$, and making the rules of engagement so egregious our troops couldn’t even defend themselves ?

As usual, no substance just character assasenation, and leftist talking points. You use the same tactics you accuse your political opponents of using.

Posted by: dbs at October 21, 2017 10:35 AM
Comment #420867

Trump tried to do the right thing. Maybe his words were not what others would have liked, but Ms. Wilson was 100% wrong to make an issue of it. Bad form. Of course, it is what we have come to expect and that is the tragedy.

Any statement anybody makes can be parsed and second guessed. That is why we all need just to lighten up in general.

Good manners tell us that we should not offend people unnecessarily. Good manners also tell us that we should not easily take offense and never take offense when none is obviously intended. Good rules in general.

Posted by: Christine & John at October 21, 2017 10:46 AM
Comment #420868

Christine & John

My sentiments exactly. I think his condolences are genuine.

Posted by: dbs at October 21, 2017 10:52 AM
Comment #420869

A President doesn’t call someone to discuss their dead hero to insult them. Everybody above a 4th grade level understands that. To be debating this as an issue puts us all at a 3rd grade level, IMO…

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 21, 2017 11:00 AM
Comment #420870

Only vindictive ignorant A$$holes would twist words to make a persons intentions look bad, and that is what the left is doing because they never have facts just made up BULLS**T. But the facts are coming out to bite them in the A$$ and show their true face.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 11:02 AM
Comment #420871

Frederica Wilson was supporting a friend and constituent in her grief and they were interrupted twice by attempted publicity stunts from this deplorable administration, once during the drive, and then again when they got to the airport, where the media had been called to witness what should have been a private moment. They were all in shock over what had happened to La David Johnson, and then were stunned by a phone call that the caller clearly didn’t want to make. Most likely, that conversation was also recorded by whoever organized this nonsensical stunt, like the one dbs linked, but they’re not going to release the one that didn’t turn out well. When they got to the airport, Congressperson Wilson was asked a question by someone who already knew that the call had taken place, and she honestly responded about what was said by the caller. Now the right wing is claiming she’s the villain in all this, when she was helping her constituents get through the worst moment in their lives. She has been attacked with lies from the podium at the White House by the Chief of Staff, and will continue to be attacked by the right wing media who will be shaking and baking this into another distraction from the criminal activities of the perpetrators of this publicity stunt.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 11:11 AM
Comment #420872

” Congressperson Wilson was asked a question by someone who already knew that the call had taken place, and she honestly responded about what was said by the caller.”

She should have demurred. Bad form to comment at all. She should have taken the opportunity not to talk.

Posted by: Christine & John at October 21, 2017 11:28 AM
Comment #420873

Ms Wilson obviously had other things on her mind on that day, and wasn’t expecting a stunt. She continues to be attacked by the insane occupant of the WH on the day of La David Johnson’s funeral. This WH has no intention of abiding by any of the rules and laws about record keeping, so we may not know exactly what was said unless someone can get it from the carrier.

Other topic for C&J, it’s Thoreau’s 200th birthday this year, and Princeton University Press has so far published 8 of 17 volumes of his 2 million word journal of his observations of trees, wildflowers, and animals that he wrote for 12 years.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 11:57 AM
Comment #420874

If Trump and his followers wouldn’t have made such a screwed up mess out of the NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem I would agree the Congresswomen should have kept what was said to herself. Of course that didn’t happen and the right wing nuts used the silent protest to falsely accuse the protestors of disrespecting the flag and the soldiers.

Yet when Trump disrespects the family of a fallen soldier they expect him to have a free ride. Most reasonable people understand if you dance you pay the fiddler. The arrogant Trump botched this one. Had he simply said “I didn’t intend to insult anyone and I am sorry if my words were hurtful”, this would have ended. But not the arrogant pr**k Trump, the loser who believes his own crap “I think apologizing is a great thing but you have to be wrong”.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 21, 2017 12:27 PM
Comment #420876

BTW, Michelle Obama met with Kelly’s wife Karen to express her condolences on the loss of her son. Both Kellys were invited to the White House, but JFKelly didn’t come for some reason.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 12:36 PM
Comment #420877

ohrealy

I did a study of Thoreau back in 2004. Chrissy & I went to Walden and walked lots of the areas around and attended some lectures.

One interesting thing I learned was that Thoreau didn’t really like wilderness. He was comfortable in(and what he called wilderness)the farm, field and forest mix around Concord. I came to understand that Thoreau’s Walden was sort of like going to live in Rock Creek Park or Central Park. He could walk up to have lunch with Emerson.

He was in the country but not of the country, but he did manage to leave a great legacy.

A good discussion of American thought, BTW, is a book called
“The Metaphysical Club” by Louis Menand. He talks about the sea change that separated guys like Thoreau and Emerson from William James, Charles Peirce or Oliver Wendell Holmes. This difference was Darwin. Thoreau & Emerson saw a steady-state world, whereas after Darwin people thought in terms of evolutionary change.

Anyway, today we read Thoreau for his insights on nature, but we do not treat him as a serious philosopher, as people might have done in before.

Posted by: Christine & John at October 21, 2017 12:37 PM
Comment #420878
Only vindictive ignorant A$$holes would twist words to make a persons intentions look bad,

Great description of Trump I must say. But Kelly is kinda forced into it to protect the vindictive arrogant a**whole Trump KAP. I guess that would make him a different type of a**whole…right?

Posted by: j2t2 at October 21, 2017 12:51 PM
Comment #420879

This is all he said she said, both sides have been caught in untruthful comments. We have a congresswoman who by her voting record shows that she has no love lost for the military and a president who may have stumbled on some words. It all boils down to which side do we believe. I agree with Jack the congresswoman should have kept her rhinestone cowgirl mouth shut and said nothing of the conversation.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at October 21, 2017 12:51 PM
Comment #420880

Wrong j2 I ment that for you on the left.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at October 21, 2017 12:53 PM
Comment #420881

Kelly is just as vindictive and ignorant an a$$hole as his boss. He participated in a fake news story about a congressperson and broadcast it for all to see, or maybe his babysitting days will over after he finds out who set him up. Good description of the right wingers, KAP, but if you look at Congresswoman Wilson and see something you don’t like, you should examine your own prejudices. She is an educator and a mentor to thousands of young people. I’m sure she now regrets encouraging young people to sign up for the military who didn’t know what they were signing up for, unlike General Kelly.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 1:20 PM
Comment #420882

As I said vindictive ignorant A××hole leftist who politicize a fall hero.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at October 21, 2017 1:32 PM
Comment #420883
Anyway, today we read Thoreau for his insights on nature, but we do not treat him as a serious philosopher, as people might have done in before. Posted by: Christine & John at October 21, 2017 12:37 PM

I’m not sure about that. You seem to reject anything that is influenced from outside your specific educational background. Classical societies had religions besides philosophies, and their religions were not all that different from those of places much farther east.

I could be living on a small farm. I love it, but it’s too isolated in the winter. When I first moved back up north around 1994, neighbors had just inherited a farm in WI which they were trying to sell for 50K and couldn’t get a buyer. My paternal ancestors are buried in Whitewater, WI, and McHenry, IL.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 1:42 PM
Comment #420884

KAP, you’re confusing right and left. Step away from the darkness. Nothing good ever comes from the right wing. They’re convening the death panels right now.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 2:02 PM
Comment #420886

ohrealy, If BULLS**T were money you would be a Billionaire.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 2:17 PM
Comment #420887

The Borowitz Report: “General Kelly has served our country with courage and valor. He has earned the right to lie without fear of being contradicted by the facts.”

This entire issue is so typical of the Trump era.

It is possible neither side did anything wrong when Trump called the family of the soldier. Trump may have been sincere in what he said. However, that family and Congresswoman- a friend of the family and the soldier for years- found out just before getting into the car on their way to see the body that it would be a closed casket. No doubt feelings were raw. Trump could not know that.

Trump could have simply apologized for the miscommunication, apologized, and publicly expressed his appreciation to the family.

But no.

He shifted targets from the awful comment he originally made about Obama and past presidents not contacting families about fallen soldiers, in an attempt to cover up the fact he had not mentioned the four casualties or contacted the families in 12 days, to attacking the Congresswoman. Nearly everything Trump and CoS Kelly said about her was wrong. They were easily provable lies put out there in order to smear her.

Like I said, this issue is typical of the Trump era. Expect more. As one pundit said about Trump and his divisiveness, moral bankruptcy, and fundamental indecency, ‘we and falling and falling, and there is no bottom.’

Posted by: phx8 at October 21, 2017 2:22 PM
Comment #420888

ohrealy

Thoreau is part of my educational background and I spent considerable time studying him, going so far as to walk in his footsteps. There was a time when he really appealed to me and I still acknowledge his place in American thought.

I do not reject things outside my specific educational background and - anyway - my specific educational background is very broad. I do think about the things I read and hear and come to different judgements about them. This is not rejection, but consideration. I doubt that more than 1% of the population has studied Thoreau to the extent I did. Have you been to Walden Pond, or walked from Walden to Wachusett?

We get to judge and have a duty to do so. As Thoreau’s friends Emerson said - “… a palace, a statue, or a costly book have an alien and forbidding air, much like a gay equipage, and seem to say like that, ‘Who are you, Sir?’ Yet they all are his, suitors for his notice, petitioners to his faculties that they will come out and take possession. The picture waits for my verdict: it is not to command me, but I am to settle its claims to praise.”

Posted by: Christine & John at October 21, 2017 2:24 PM
Comment #420890

It appears that there is a direct correlation between the failure of the Political Left and the intensity of their outrage.

We now hear more outlandish and undocumented accusations from them and many more words with ***.

Some Lefties on WB remind me of children discovering four-letter words.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 21, 2017 2:54 PM
Comment #420891
We now hear more outlandish and undocumented accusations from them and many more words with ***.

Seems to me Royal this shift to more colorful language started with the Trump era. It also appears to include both sides as I simply repeated KAP’s language in the comment above. I would suggest it is the response by all of us to the coarseness of the president as well as his vulgarisms and mean spirited comments.

As far as outlandish and undocumented accusations…Trump owns that, your projecting is foolishness.

Remember Cruz’s family being associated with the Kennedy assassination?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/may/03/donald-trump/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-linking-ted-cruzs-f/


“I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhap I’d be dating her”.

“He’s not a war hero, he is a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured”.

“I think apologizing is a great thing, but you have to be wrong”.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 21, 2017 4:45 PM
Comment #420892

As usual, my Pal j2t2 finds someone else on which to blame his behavior.

It is much the same as the first Obama administration blaming President Bush for anything that wasn’t working.

Obama, Clinton and the administration blamed the Benghazi attack and resulting deaths on a video. Clinton lied directly to survivors of the dead.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 21, 2017 5:15 PM
Comment #420893

The mantra of the left, lie, blame others, and if that doesn’t work use the race card!!

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at October 21, 2017 5:33 PM
Comment #420894

KAP, just be careful not to sign up for any of the fraudulent “insurance” that will be hyped by the crooks being unleashed by the wingnuts.

The latest SQUIRREL! being shouted by the criminal in chief is that he wants to release the JFK files to distract from the mess that he’s made this week. We’ll see if the doggies chase that one in eternal hope of getting the special biscuit that they’re never going to get from him.

C&J, no, when I went to Mass., I was more interested in Nantucket and Martha’s Vineyard. I appreciate both Thoreau and Emerson. I would say that I live more like Emerson, but think more like Thoreau. We walk on the land, and our feet tap out the rhythm of repetition, but water encourages more thought.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 5:33 PM
Comment #420895

Ohrealy, Those JFK files should have been released long ago, WE THE PEROPLE have a right to know. But as far as your comment goes it is typical left wing, much like your Rhinestone Cowgirl getting the MSM to concentrate on something other then what is really happening and blowing a minor misstep into a major catastrophy. Like I said earlier if BULLS**T were money you would be a billionaire.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 5:53 PM
Comment #420896

KAP, how did you get so confused? Frederica Wilson talked about what has happened and was happening in Africa, and questioned what our troops were doing, how it was being done, and how La David Johnson got left behind, like a good congressperson that you should be applauding. Instead you attempt to ridicule her like you’re the fashion police. The corporate media was following the biscuit that the POS threw and is still following that, instead of looking into what was actually going on in Niger, where stories differ about what happened.

At the ceremony in Miami that Kelly lied about, Congresswoman Wilson was effusive in her praise of the FBI agents who had died, as well as Comey, Boehner, and Obama. You look at her and ridicule the clothing she wears, and complain about people criticizing a criminal who is hanging around in the white house until they come for him with the handcuffs or the straight jacket.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 6:10 PM
Comment #420897

LOL…some network news outlets are now using “Twitter” as a source for stories. I guess that would fall into the “un-named sources” so popular with the Lefty media.

“According to un-named sources” should actually read;

“According to my hair stylist’s nephew, who is a gardener for Hillary Clinton’s plumber…”

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 21, 2017 6:14 PM
Comment #420898

Like I said earlier if BULLS**T were money you would be a billionaire.
Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 5:53 PM

My favorite is; “If brains were gunpowder, my Pal on the Left wouldn’t have enough to blow his nose.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 21, 2017 6:18 PM
Comment #420899

ohrealy, Earlier I stated there were untruthful comments made and that includes your Rhinestone Cowgirl wanabe.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 6:27 PM
Comment #420900

I can’t believe that at one time I subscribed to “Newsweek Magazine”.

They left me about a decade ago for the “dark side” and I cancelled my subscription.

Read this headline from Newsweek. How much further can they fall? This is mental masturbation for the Left.

How Hillary Clinton Still Can, and Should, Become President After the Trump-Russia Investigation

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-president-lawrence-lessig-post-686077

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 21, 2017 6:46 PM
Comment #420901
However, that family and Congresswoman- a friend of the family and the soldier for years- found out just before getting into the car on their way to see the body that it would be a closed casket. No doubt feelings were raw. Trump could not know that. Posted by: phx8 at October 21, 2017 2:22 PM

Maybe he did know that and was discombobulated by knowing something that he didn’t want to know. The phone call should be released by whoever has access to that, whether the WH, the military, or the service provider.

Earlier I stated there were untruthful comments made and that includes your Rhinestone Cowgirl wanabe. Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 6:27 PM

I went back through the thread and was unable to find what you claim Frederica Wilson said that was untruthful. What are you claiming she said that was untrue?

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 6:54 PM
Comment #420902

Comment 420879 was when I stated both sides said untruthful things, I never said what they were or who said them. Ohrealy. But knowing you and the rest of the liberal left you would believe a lie as truth before the actual truth of the matter. Nobody really knows what Trump actually said to the widow except for the hearsay of a Trump hating congresswoman. We haven’t heard anything from the widow yet. Also if the conversation was taped that to may come out. But til then it is all hearsay.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at October 21, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #420905

So you deny that Frederica Wilson said anything untruthful that you know about. That’s a step in a good direction. She is more interested in moving beyond this into more constructive endeavors, as a dedicated public servant for so many years. She was never interested in the controversy stirred up by the reaction to the publicity stunt engineered by the WH. She laughed at being stalked by the media.

The POS is well hated, even more so by those of his own party, the more contact, the more they despise him. He thinks like Tiberius, whose motto was first let them hate me as long as they obey me, then let them hate me as long as they fear me. Who would you believe, a person who has told over a thousand lies, or a person who has worked hard to uplift people for her entire life? He said lies. She said truth. It’s easy. Step away from the dark side.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 7:50 PM
Comment #420907

ohrealy, You are making my point circumventing the facts to suit your agenda possibly just like your rhinestone cowgirl. Your comment is pure BULLS**T she did the whole thing as a political publicity stunt. She through her voting record shows she had no love for the military or military dependents. Besides her how many congresspersons ever rode with the widow or dependent to claim a body of a dead service person. Like I said you would believe the lie before the truth if it concerned a left wing politician.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 8:02 PM
Comment #420908

Your sources of information are faulty, and will soon move on to some other nonsense without ever apologizing to Congresswoman Wilson for their lies. I saw the interviews and I’m not blinded by prejudice, or confused by seeing someone wearing a hat. She wants to find out what happened. The media wants to know about the phone call. She still wants to know what happened in Niger. So do I. Does anyone in the WH want to tell us what happened? That should be a clue for you.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 8:11 PM
Comment #420909

ohrealy, we would all like to know the facts. As far as an apology to that cowgirl wannabe ain’t going to happen and I wouldn’t apologize. If it wasn’t for her big mouth and making a fallin soldiers death political this would have never happened. Did anyone tell us what actually happened in Benghazi? I would like to know where Huillary and Obama were while all that was going on instead of the BS Video.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 21, 2017 8:42 PM
Comment #420912

You need to step away from the conspiracy theory websites and crackpot fake journalists in order to be taken seriously. Some people seem to think that “emails” and “benghazi’ are magical words that function as get out of jail free cards for them. Kelly is going to have to apologize for making a fool of himself. The POS made a mess, and Kelly tried to help, but just made a bigger mess. Remember, reporters were asking the POS about the deaths in Niger, and what happened and why wasn’t there anything official about that after all this time. The POS went from those questions to talking about other Presidents making or not making phone calls to the bereaved. NO ONE ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT! Do you understand that? He made it into an issue, angering everyone who worked in previous administrations who actually did their jobs instead of golfing and watching tv. Then he tried to make some calls, and was apparently advised that this could be used as a publicity stunt. Kelly should take whoever advised that to the roof of the WH and throw them off.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 21, 2017 9:46 PM
Comment #420922

ohrealy

There is too much looking into details by people who do not understand them.

Re Benghazi - Hillary was in no way responsible for the details of Benghazi. Secretary of State should not be involved in that level of detail. When leader are so detailed oriented they are bad leaders. Hillary did lie about the details once she knew, but that was after the fact. The big liar in this case was Susan Rice and not Hillary. That is why Rice did not become Secretary of State. She and Obama feared the hearings.

The same general formula would apply to Trump in Niger. These are complex situations and unfortunately people die. The non-participant can easily speculate about what coulda, shoulda and what they woulda done, but they were full of it.

Once I felt in great danger. I was in Rutbah in Iraq walking through the crowd back in 2008. My marines were in front and in back, but I walked behind a couple of cars, not paying close attention. I found myself surrounded by Iraqis, including a couple very angry ones. The marines could not get close to me w/o fighting and if fighting broke out, they would get there too late. We managed to talk the angry guys down and the incident passed w/o violence. But I have thought about this a lot. Whose fault if I got killed?

I chose to be in Iraq and specifically I decided to go on foot in a potentially dangerous place. I was not paying attention and I got stuck in a dangerous place. The marine could have stayed closer, but I did not want them too close. Maybe they should have not let me walk, but could they reasonable have stopped me? I did not ask my superiors for permission, since I had general authority.

Anyway, had this situation gone bad, there would have been plenty of people to blame. It was mostly my fault, since I made the decisions. But I was doing the job “they” sent me to do.

Posted by: Christine & John at October 22, 2017 9:56 AM
Comment #420923
As usual, my Pal j2t2 finds someone else on which to blame his behavior.

Oh poor Royal reduced to strawman arguments. You know Royal just because you blame the left for everything and anything doesn’t make it true, which was the case here.

I find it amusing Royal that you guys that scream the loudest about PC are the most tender when it comes to something un-PC directed towards their sacred cows.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 22, 2017 11:13 AM
Comment #420925

C/J, I hope you are not implying that those killed in Benghazi were at fault.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 22, 2017 3:13 PM
Comment #420932

Royale

I had the same sort of job those guys did. I sometimes put myself in harm’s way to do the job I was sent to do. I took all the reasonable precautions, but understood the risk. Had I been killed or injured, it would have been the fault of the bad guys who attacked. It also would have been my choice to be there.

This whole “fault” thing is flawed. These guys were doing their duty and using their best judgement in a fluid and complex environment. They made choices, the same sort I made. We do not fault them for this. Neither do we fault Hillary or anybody else up the chain.

When I went to Iraq, I told Chrissy that it was a dangerous assignment (I was embedded with a marine combat regiment in Al Anbar during the surge) but that I fully expected to come safe home. I would take reasonable precautions, but that I had to do what I was supposed to do. I told her, also, that if something happened to me, it was my wish that she make no complaints against the marines, the FS or the president, because I chose to be there.

The Ambassador in Libya was a brave man who chose to do his duty in a dangerous place. He made the choice I think I would have made. It turned out fatal.

Posted by: Christine & John at October 23, 2017 10:14 AM
Comment #420935

For information purposes, Myeshia Johnson verified this morning that the phone call she received from the POS was on the phone of a Master Sergeant Neal(Neil?), who put the phone on speaker. I thought this was the case from Frederica Wilson’s original interview, but it got lost in the news coverage.

The administration has no intention of abiding by the Presidential Records Act

The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has asked the White House to provide more information about whether staffers are adhering to the Presidential Records Act. (The White House refused.)

from:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/10/23/are-jared-and-ivanka-erasing-history/

Posted by: ohrealy at October 23, 2017 11:25 AM
Comment #420937

Trump is a seductive personality to many. He promises big promises, says what we want to hear, gleefully attacks the enemies of those his audience hates.

But on the flip side, everything that makes him likeable to the right is a weakness that constantly ends up spoiling things for the right.

It’s great to have this guy who tears into political enemies with abandon, who doesn’t spare any of the figures the other side rolls out… until that bitter partisanship is turned on your own. Then you find out that all that garbage adds up to one word: divisive.

This Gold Star family thing… you could see the basic problem when he attacked the Khans. Who denies that family their privilege? What you do is you array another family with a different point of view on your side.

Trump’s lack of a filter is a double edged sword. Maybe he wins some fights, gets away with it. On the other hand, though, he’s taking damage others wouldn’t, for reasons that are frankly ridiculous.

I mean, who attacks hurricane survivors? If your problem is, they’re publicizing a lackluster disaster recovery response, the better response is getting your ass in gear, and your mouth in neutral!

Republicans wanted a guy who couldn’t be shut up. Well, now they’re figuring out the problem is, he won’t shut up! Whodathunkit?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 23, 2017 11:53 AM
Comment #420938

OMG!! SD LIVES!

Myeshia Johnson also said that she wanted to see her husband’s remains, regardless of their condition, so that she could know that it was really him, but was prevented by the military.

A great uncle of mine was killed in The Battle of The Bulge, and is buried in Belgium, but there was a funeral with a coffin here, and that is buried in a cemetery with his parents and siblings. They had the option of burial in Arlington, but preferred to have this done locally instead.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 23, 2017 12:06 PM
Comment #420943

It is good to hear from Stephen Daugherty. Hope all is well with you again.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 23, 2017 4:36 PM
Comment #420944

I’ll second what Royal said, Stephen.

Posted by: kctim at October 23, 2017 4:40 PM
Comment #420956
The Borowitz Report: “General Kelly has served our country with courage and valor. He has earned the right to lie without fear of being contradicted by the facts.” Posted by: phx8 at October 21, 2017 2:22 PM

For some reason this Borowitz 92Y panel from 2012 came up in my recommendations today. It’s pretty surprising how relevant it is to what’s going on now. It’s long, but I got drawn in and watched the whole thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44csWpWoE_w

Funny video of a POS speech written by artificial intelligence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHyzuqjaok

Posted by: ohrealy at October 23, 2017 8:55 PM
Comment #421505

thanks you

Posted by: titan gel bandung at November 13, 2017 7:07 AM
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