Bright lines

We should draw a bright line between the political and the personal. I don’t care and don’t typically want to know political positions of those I interact with. “None of my business” should apply to most things in life.


Celebrities and athletes have the right to their opinions, same as the rest of us, but being good looking or able to run faster or toss an oblong ball farther and more accurately doesn't make someone's opinions any more valid than those of the old boozer who sits at the end of a bar and comments on the news.

And just as I am don't like it when the barfly chimes in with his political opinions when I am watching a game on TV, I am similarly annoyed when athletes insist on bringing up the ideas instead of doing what we watch them to do.

In both cases, it not the quality of the opinion but rather the venue. The drunk, the celebrity or the athlete may or may not have a valid point but I don't care to hear it at this time and place.

We pay athletes millions of dollars and give them all sorts of privileges because of their athletic prowess. I don't buy into the stereotype of the dumb jock, but I have not noticed that they are any smarter than a randomly chosen individual. Given their wealth and status, they are or more likely to be out of touch with the concerns of the rest of us.

Colin Kaepernick, for example, lived a privileged life. He was admired for his athletic skills in HS, never paid a dime for his college education and then he got the big bucks playing professional football. We should not hold his wealth and privelge against him, but it is disingenuous for him to pose as oppressed.

Posted by Christine & John at September 24, 2017 9:04 PM
Comments
Comment #420068

Exactly they want to protest do it some where else. We pay big bucks to watch these overpaid jocks play a game.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 24, 2017 10:06 PM
Comment #420070

I wonder what would happen if team mates got together and prayed before every game.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 24, 2017 11:01 PM
Comment #420071

And yet, despite the tens of millions of dollars earned by LeBron James; despite the fame and athletic excellence, despite all that, it still did not stop a white supremacist from spray painting ‘n*gger’ in front of his house.

Posted by: phx8 at September 24, 2017 11:17 PM
Comment #420072

When was that phx8?

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 24, 2017 11:26 PM
Comment #420073

phx8

One guy spray paints his house. Millions adore him. He makes more money in one year than all of us together make in our lives. I wish I could be as much a victim as that guy. Cry me a river.

Posted by: Christine & John at September 24, 2017 11:27 PM
Comment #420074

KAP,
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lebron-james-los-angeles-home-vandalized-n-word-graffiti-n766651

C&J,
Really? How many people does it take to kill a person, or beat them up? No amount of money or friends or adoring fans will make up for that.

Shall we talk about Republican Senator Scott and his experiences with racial profiling?

Shall we discuss Sherriff Joe Arpaio and what it was like to be subjected to his department’s racial profiling? He incarcerated people in a Phoenix tent city in summer, with 115 degree heat? He called it a ‘concentration camp.’ He was proud of that.

Trump is making all this much worse. There were no protests in the NFL or NBA two weeks ago. Thanks to Trump’s divisive comments, look where we are now.

Posted by: phx8 at September 24, 2017 11:35 PM
Comment #420075

I thought we were talking about people using their jobs to disrespect our way of life and the blood spilled defending the right to use their jobs to disrespect our way of life.

Just like when phx8 exaggerates his racist accusations, it should go in one ear and out the other. A guy making millions of dollars protesting inequality? It’s laughable because it’s so trivial and superficial.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 25, 2017 12:18 AM
Comment #420076

A white supremacist in liberal L.A. phx8? Must have been a disgruntled Lakers fan. But back to the subject at hand, overpaid jocks protesting on company time. Like I stated before, I am all for the 1st amendment and their right to voice their opinion, the only thing I find wrong is the time and place they choose to protest. A different time and place would better serve them and the community and the cause they are protesting for.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 25, 2017 12:42 AM
Comment #420078

HA! What a joke! Right wingers complaining about athletes earning too much much to have free speech. I wonder what the reason could be for that. Maybe it has something to do with what they look like under their helmets. Marxism and Socialism for those materialists. Freedom for me and people like me.

Reference a Libertarian Candidate in 2004:

“I’ll tell you now, that anywhere I happen to be standing is a free-speech zone because the government doesn’t have the authority to tell me what I can say or where I can say it.”

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2017 9:27 AM
Comment #420079

Wrong ohrealy, not complaining about them making to much money although they do but complaining about the time and place they decide to protest. As I said I’m all for 1st amendment rights to protest but not in your workplace and the sports facilities are athletes workplace. Besides we pay to see them play a game and entertain us we don’t pay to see them protest.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 25, 2017 10:36 AM
Comment #420080
We should not hold his wealth and privelge against him, but it is disingenuous for him to pose as oppressed. Posted by Christine & John at September 24, 2017 9:04 PM

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder”

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2017 11:06 AM
Comment #420083

Terry Bradshaw:

“This is America. If our country stands for anything, folks, it’s freedom. People died for that freedom. I’m not sure if our President understands those rights. That every American has the right to speak out also to protest. Believe me, these athletes do love our this great country of ours. Personally, I think our President should concentrate on North Korea and healthcare rather than ripping into athletes and the NFL.”

-Sports Illustrated

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2017 11:22 AM
Comment #420084

What oppression ohrealy? Blacks have the same opportunities as anyone else. I don’t care if you are black, white, red or yellow you have opportunities equally. It is the choises you make not the lack of opportunities. I agree with Terry Bradshaw we all have the right to speak out. But then again there is a time and place for that action. Also the NFL NEEDS to apply their free speech rules equally. Last year they prevented the Dallas Cowboys the right to honor slain police officers also they disallowed 9/11 remembrance shoes or something of that order.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 25, 2017 12:00 PM
Comment #420085

C&J very clearly stated that it’s about the proper time and place. It’s not about their right to speak out.

After this past weekend, now that the NFL has pretty much condoned the disrespectful behavior towards our country, its flag, its military, its police, its culture and its traditions, it will be interesting to see how normal Americans react.

Posted by: kctim at September 25, 2017 12:01 PM
Comment #420086
In both cases, it not the quality of the opinion but rather the venue. The drunk, the celebrity or the athlete may or may not have a valid point but I don’t care to hear it at this time and place.

Time and place, free speech must be limited to a certain time and/or certain place for the right wingers to “care to hear it”!! Hah, it is the message that they don’t care to hear.

I thought we were talking about people using their jobs to disrespect our way of life and the blood spilled defending the right to use their jobs to disrespect our way of life.

Umm…. Weary…that isn’t “thought” that is the message you are hearing from the far right propaganda machine. It is bulls**t and meant to deceive the loyal followers of the far right. Disrespecting the consistent abuse and murder of people of color, in this country, by the local state and federal government and their militarized police forces is more loyal than criticizing those that protest.

Bringing up those that died in defense of our country, say when was the last time we went to war to defend the country?
Korea? WWII?

But that aside lets go with the nonsensical position of the far right. Those that died were fighting for the rights we cherish including free speech by minorities. This protest by the NFL players and clubs is exactly what they died defending. Using the nationalist trick of loyalty and patriotism to degrade the protestors is not patriotism it is deception and deflection.

We pay athletes millions of dollars and give them all sorts of privileges because of their athletic prowess.

Who exactly is we? You and the mouse in your pocket? Or do you own a franchise?

Fans pay to see the games because it entertains them and makes them feel better about themselves. Advertisers pay to get those that watch the games to buy their stuff. The franchise markets to you and me and from the revenue they pay the players. It is a business, don’t watch who cares.

(BTW I am not a pro football fan because I don’t need the little bit of “feelgood about myself through them” that comes with identifying with these pro teams and their expensive workforce. I am a college football fan and I guess I get my “feel good about myself through them” on the cheap.

Thanks to Trump’s divisive comments, look where we are now.

Trump has helped to bring the issue to the forefront. Time for the gutless NASCAR, NHA, MLB, teams to stand up for the people of this country. Trump’s divisiveness is apparent when we see his disgusting display of authoritarianism and compare it tothe words of Obama.

The real issue is being ignored while we chatter about all these deflections. We have a militarized police force in this country that uses it power way to frequently to kill people and a lot of the time it is the minorities that are doing the dying. We have a police force (that Trump just gave even more power to) that can stop you and confiscate your money without a crime being committed. Is that what you rightwingers think those brave soldiers fought and died for?

Is that what you conservatives here on WB are defending with such silliness as “Like I stated before, I am all for the 1st amendment and their right to voice their opinion, the only thing I find wrong is the time and place they choose to protest.”

Posted by: j2t2 at September 25, 2017 12:06 PM
Comment #420088

j2, If you protest in your workplace what would happen to you? Those players get paid to play a game not to bring politics into it. I pay good money to watch them play not to protest. DO IT ON THEIR OWN TIME AND THEIR OWN DIMDE!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at September 25, 2017 12:41 PM
Comment #420090

KAP,

It is the NFL team owners’ dime, not yours. The owners do not seem to have a problem with this.

C&J
You compare Kaepernick with the neighborhood drunk. While it may be genuinely annoying to listen to the latter’s rants when they are flung in your face, watching a guy kneel during pregame ceremonies really isn’t intrusive in any way.

Celebrities and athletes have the right to their opinions
I know this piece is about athletes and my response doesn’t apply to athletes, but I am going to push back on your inclusion of celebrities writ large. Many of the celebrities that I imagine you are railing against are artists of one kind or another. And as you are undoubtedly away, art and politics have been inseparably intertwined since the dawn civilization. So, it really isn’t a surprise when people with backgrounds in the performing arts or recording arts use their artistry to make political statements.
We pay athletes millions of dollars and give them all sorts of privileges because of their athletic prowess.
One of the privileges of being a celebrity athlete is the platform it provides to communicate with large numbers of fans. This is old stuff when one considers the countless fundraisers athletes and celebrities sponsor for all sorts of good causes. We really should not be surprised when an athlete decides to fight racism with the same vigor which he might fight cancer, diabetes or ALS. Jack, I don’t know if you ever read my article from last year memorializing the passing of Muhammad Ali, but I think everyone would be served to think of his legacy when evaluating recent events within the National Football League. Posted by: Warren Porter at September 25, 2017 2:43 PM
Comment #420093

Warped, I buy the tickets, the merchandise, and concessions. All that helps to pay the players salary. If we don’t buy any of those things how long do you think the owners will start having a problem?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at September 25, 2017 3:17 PM
Comment #420095

Also Warped, Sponsors, people start to boycott their products then more problems. Viewership is already down 10% this year and from what I have been reading on facebook comments it’s not getting better.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at September 25, 2017 3:27 PM
Comment #420096
I buy the tickets, the merchandise, and concessions. All that helps to pay the players salary. If we don’t buy any of those things how long do you think the owners will start having a problem?

You are just one man and there are millions of other fans who don’t share your views. I don’t think this will have a big impact on the audience for professional football. Concerns regarding concussions and Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy are without a doubt much more salient.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 25, 2017 3:38 PM
Comment #420099

I beg to differ with you Warped, if 10,000 people decide to quit going to games at an average of $50. Per ticket and beer or soda is between $4 to $8. Hot dogs $4. Plus other concessions not to mention souvenirs and they aren’t cheap how much money do you think would be lost per game? Plus the bars if the same number of people quit watching at the sports bars. Multiply that by all the teams and see what you get. From what I have read just on Facebook it will probably be more then just the 10000.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 25, 2017 4:04 PM
Comment #420100

Will any of my Liberal Pals tell us about their workplace rules?

Are they allowed to demonstrate at the workplace during working hours?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 25, 2017 4:19 PM
Comment #420101

Fans have already shown that they have no great concerns over concussions and CTE, Warren. This refusal to honor our country and its military seems to have hit a pretty sour note with many fans.

The vast majority of Americans haven’t embraced blm and its lies, if the NFL continues to, it might just come back to bite them hard.

Posted by: kctim at September 25, 2017 4:26 PM
Comment #420102

Phx8

An individual spray painted his house.

My daughter lives in Baltimore. Her house has been broken into three times in the last year and twice the year before that. The cameras indicate that the perps are black.

My son was attacked by six blacks thugs, who hit him from behind and kicked him in the head, while calling him racist names. He still has the scars. It was a random attack, probably motivated by racism.

I understand that shit happens, even to the rich and privileges basketball players, but it happens to ordinary people too.

The idea that the cops often attack innocent blacks is not supported by the data. A white person is more likely to be attacked by a black one than a black is to be attacked by a white, although in most cases people victimize those of the same race.

This victimization is mostly BS. Homicide is the major cause of death for black young men. It is NOT for Asians or whites. And the perps are young black men, not police and not white racists.

Posted by: Christine & John at September 25, 2017 4:52 PM
Comment #420103

ohrealy

Homicide is the leading cause of death for young black men and the ones killing them are other young black men. Displacing this horrible situation by blaming cops or white racists makes it more difficult to address the real problem.

BLM TAKES black lives, as it makes policing harder. The shame is on them.

Posted by: Christine & John at September 25, 2017 4:56 PM
Comment #420104

The bottom line is that if you think black lives matter, cooperate with the police whose job it is to stop the perps who are doing all that killing. Indeed, demand MORE law and order in those disorderly places where violence is a habit and respect for live and property considered optional.

Posted by: Christine & John at September 25, 2017 4:59 PM
Comment #420106

Does anyone still believe the “Hands up, don’t shoot” accounts by some “witnesses” in the shooting of Michael Brown by a white police officer in Ferguson, MO.?

St. Louis Rams players believed as they raised their hands in a symbolic gesture before a football game.

“Hands up, don’t shoot” was proven to be a lie; it never happened.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 25, 2017 5:46 PM
Comment #420107

It’s ALL about the leftist narrative, Royal. They’ll be attacking Alejandro Villanueva any minute now.
Sad.

Posted by: kctim at September 25, 2017 5:55 PM
Comment #420110

There is no doubt kctim, the Democrat Party is desperate for a victory of any kind, social or political.

The social victories (trashing traditional marriage, abortion on demand, legalizing harmful drugs, giving illegals benefits of citizenship, and more) have emboldened them to ever more outrageous acts of civil disrespect, vandalism and hooliganism (love that word).

The Left has become convinced that the average American does not love their country, flag or national anthem because they themselves don’t.

I expect our next election will be about the usual; guns and butter, and also patriotism.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 25, 2017 6:11 PM
Comment #420112

I suggest the next time our Liberal Pals order a “Big Mac” they engage the counter-person in a discussion about MMGW.

And, the next time they have a delivery by UPS or Federal Express they ask the driver to debate the benefits of illegal immigrants in our country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 25, 2017 7:11 PM
Comment #420122
Indeed, demand MORE law and order in those disorderly places where violence is a habit and respect for live and property considered optional. Posted by: Christine & John at September 25, 2017 4:59 PM

That is one racist rant, C&J. There is already plenty of law and order in “those places”. That’s how a kid who’s trying to stay away from trouble gets shot sixteen times by the police. You follow the typical old time racist segregationist tactic of punishing the innocent along with the guilty. You have persuaded me that you are incapable of learning anything, just like those trolls that live here at wb. You might not have your swaztika armband on right now, but you are one of them. I’d suggest staying away from Seattle when wearing your armband. It might not be one of “your places”.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 25, 2017 10:39 PM
Comment #420123

Gotta love conservative logic, It’s alright for the police to kill black because blacks kill blacks. The government appreciates this type of thinking from it’s citizens.

Another good bit of “conservative logic” is Royals whine that if he can’t protest at his job then no one can protest at their job!

Add the hiding behind the flag and the military idiocy and you have a complete North Korea type regime with Trump at the helm.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2017 12:25 AM
Comment #420126

j2


“you have a complete North Korea type regime with Trump at the helm.”

If this were actually true, you would all have been rounded up and killed or put into labor camps by now. Compare this to places like UCB where conservative voices are silenced because groups like antifa, and other tolerant leftists threaten violence if they are allowed to speak. So your whining falls on deaf ears.

Posted by: dbs at September 26, 2017 6:46 AM
Comment #420127

j2


“Gotta love conservative logic, It’s alright for the police to kill black because blacks kill blacks.”

This is retarded. The lefts tactic of making baseless accusations of racism and other character atttacks is why I give not a single f@#k what the left in this country thinks.

Posted by: dbs at September 26, 2017 6:54 AM
Comment #420129

Everything that conservatives have ever espoused has failed, so now they are back to their roots, opposition to human rights, pretending to be rebels against the federal government which enforced human rights, until the current mess, fake sanctimoniousness, and corporatism with monopolies. This brings Assange and the people who used to want to kill him together under a fake billionaire and real crooks. Racism is the glue holding it all together.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 8:30 AM
Comment #420131

Only in your head, ohrealy.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2017 9:25 AM
Comment #420132

A racist should be at term used to describe people who use race as an excuse to whine about not getting their way.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2017 9:26 AM
Comment #420134

Nobody has said that it is “alright” for the police to kill innocent Americans simply because of the color of their skin. So-called ‘social justice’ groups and far-leftists need division to exist so they push the nonsensical propaganda that you are pushing there, J2.

“Add the hiding behind the flag and the military idiocy and you have a complete North Korea type regime with Trump at the helm.”

You are old enough to know better than that, J2. The far-left has been attacking our country, its flag, its pledge and its military for decades now and each and every time it is those on the right who get p*ssed off and say it’s disrespectful.
If that supposedly makes us a “North Korea type regime,” then we’ve been one for many years and under many Presidents.

Ohrealy, disagreeing with far left policy is not “opposition to human rights,” nor is it racism, sexism or whatever else the word of the day is for you guys. Drop the emotional drivel and try to have an intelligent discussion.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2017 9:45 AM
Comment #420136

The racism charge has worked for the left for so long they rely on it as a staple argument. It comes up almost always when they don’t get their way. I guess holding their breath isn’t working for them any longer.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2017 10:37 AM
Comment #420137

Ohrealy, disagreeing with far left policy is not “opposition to human rights,” nor is it racism, sexism or whatever else the word of the day is for you guys. Drop the emotional drivel and try to have an intelligent discussion.

Posted by: obat herbal agar cepat hamil at September 26, 2017 10:59 AM
Comment #420140

Hilarious kctim, paid trolls are quoting you.

The right has nothing left to do but be disagreeable. They’re going back to the core principle and the reason that the modern “conservative” movement exists, opposition to every right, except for the militia amendment, including the right to vote. If you’re opposed to everything but guns, then guns are all you have, a violent racist movement.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 11:57 AM
Comment #420141

I’ll give credit to the Dallas Cowboys last night they all took a knee BEFORE the National Anthem but got up when it started. The hypocrisy of the NFL is showing. Last year the Dallas Cowboys wanted to honor the slain police officers in a BLM shootout but were told NO, A player wanted to wear something pink to honor his mom when she had breast cancer but was told NO, players couldn’t wear a 9/11 whatever during the game on 9/11 but were told NO. Players are fined for overdoing the celebrating in the endzone after a touchdown. The NFL takes those 1st amendment rights away yet allows players to take a knee during the National Anthem claiming they have a 1st amendment right to do that. We all have a right to protest but do it where it counts.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at September 26, 2017 12:44 PM
Comment #420142

Ohrealy, the emotional desires of the left wing are not where our rights come from. Opposing those desires isn’t even close to “opposition to every right.”

Fact is, leftist policy still cannot stand on its own merits and is still rejected by the majority of Americans, and to fight that the leftists have resorted to using dishonest and exaggerated claims of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia etc… FFS, the left is now even claiming that support of our country, its flag, and our military is now racist.

Stop hating those who simply disagree, and stop falling for the ridiculous stereotypes. We will never come to a consensus as a country until you do.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2017 1:49 PM
Comment #420145

Leftist policy, kctim? What is that? A belief in progress, that we are going into the future and not the past? The majority of Americans? Really? I guess you actually mean the majority of the geographic area, the plantations. I don’t hate anything except that hatred which is a core principle of the right wing. I never heard of a political “conservative” until after the civil rights movement. Then some people suddenly became philosophical about their emotional desire not to allow the country to change and move forward. They had better spokespeople who were more persuasive, but it was always a movement paid for by the wealthiest individuals seeking to retain and increase their wealth and privileges while denying basic human dignity to others. Now they own the SCOTUS, as well as the Congress, so they don’t have to be philosophical any more.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 2:16 PM
Comment #420146
the emotional desires of the left wing are not where our rights come from. Opposing those desires isn’t even close to “opposition to every right.”

Our rights are endowed by our Creator. Only in the mind of a conservative could individual rights be subject to the whims of emotional desire.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 26, 2017 2:49 PM
Comment #420147
“Gotta love conservative logic, It’s alright for the police to kill black because blacks kill blacks.”

This is retarded. The lefts tactic of making baseless accusations of racism and other character atttacks

Dbs, I don’t make this stuff up, I’m surprised you didn’t read what was said.

“Homicide is the leading cause of death for young black men and the ones killing them are other young black men. Displacing this horrible situation by blaming cops or white racists makes it more difficult to address the real problem.”
Quoted from C&J.

It is insulting on many levels, first of all telling these NFL protestors what is and isn’t important to them is a bit presumptuous don’t you think. Using black on black crime to argue against the extraordinary use of force taught to many police departments today is yet another level that conservative logic fails on.


“you have a complete North Korea type regime with Trump at the helm.”

If this were actually true, you would all have been rounded up and killed or put into labor camps by now.

I don’t doubt it dbs. But that doesn’t make it right. What I am comparing is Trump and the rightwings forced patriotism to the forced patriotism of the N. Korean people. To assume that kneeling to the national anthem is anything other than a respectful protest against the extraordinary level of violence by some in law enforcement is wrong.

Nobody has said that it is “alright” for the police to kill innocent Americans simply because of the color of their skin.

Yes they have kctim, the government has said it is as well as many jurors in this country. In addition all of the conservatives here on WB make all these silly excuses for the police each time another person is killed and when people ask for justice to be served.

The issue is actually bigger than just black people, many white kids have been killed by the police for doing little wrong. The eagerness to kill people over traffic stops and minor crimes, to steal cash from people for a profit isn’t what we want our police to be…is it?

So-called ‘social justice’ groups and far-leftists need division to exist so they push the nonsensical propaganda that you are pushing there, J2.

Sure kctim, that is why Trump tweets the BS for days, to help the Dems and the social justice groups. He could have been focused on N. Korea or ruining the healthcare system rather than the NFL..right? This falsehood of yours is sad in that you seem to be projecting kctim.


The far-left has been attacking our country, its flag, its pledge and its military for decades now…

Such exaggeration kctim. Some far left protestors during the Viet Nam era may have or perhaps it was FBI agents undercover doing it, who knows. And I’m sure there have been isolated cases of flag burning and other things but to claim it is only the far left when the far right usurps the American flag with a Nazi and/or confederate flag is just as bad…isn’t it?

and each and every time it is those on the right who get p*ssed off and say it’s disrespectful.

Yes they do except when the far right does it then they mutter something about heritage. Most of the time the perceived slight, such as the current NFL players kneeling, is “Trumped up”. It is as I said used to hide behind because the right does not want to address the real issues.

What makes us a N.Korea type regime is the rightist nationalism that we see today from the far right Trump followers and parroted by the right. Using the flag and the military as deflections on issues like the the NFL players kneeling is wrong kctim.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2017 2:53 PM
Comment #420152

J2 there is nothing wrong with the players taking a knee in protest, but they are paid to play a game not protest. Do it on their own time.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at September 26, 2017 4:29 PM
Comment #420153

Ohrealy,

Going by history, leftist policy is policy that enlarges government so as to infringe upon individual rights in order to control behavior. Emotion is almost always used to ‘justify’ its need.

We can achieve progress without throwing away our founding principles.

Yes, the majority of Americans continue to reject far leftist policy. Instead of dismissing them as racist plantation owners, you and the dem leadership really should try listening to them.

I don’t hate anything either, but many consider me to be extreme right wing for my Constitutional views.

I don’t fall for the wealthiest 1% controlling the world nonsense, nor do I believe that not providing an individual something for nothing equates to “denying basic human dignity.” To me, worth and honor lies totally within our individual rights, not emotional or materialistic desires.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2017 4:35 PM
Comment #420154

It is great fun to watch and listen to President Trump control the media every single day. They have no idea what is happening and neither do the Libbies. They are doing exactly what Trump has set them up to do.

Exposing Democrat and Liberal hatred for everything and everyone honoring our country is easy for the president. They fall for his traps like rats in a trap.

I hope the Democrats use their brand of racism and hatred in the campaigns for the next election.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 26, 2017 4:36 PM
Comment #420156

“Yes they have kctim, the government has said it is as well as many jurors in this country.”

Sigh. No they haven’t J2. You have to have actual evidence to get a guilty verdict, not a false sense of victimization.
Nobody is being killed for a traffic stop, selling illegal cigs or cash. They are being killed because of their actions after being caught.

No, it is not an exaggeration to say that the far-left has been attacking our country, its flag, its pledge and its military for decades now. American exceptionalism is mocked, our flag is called just a piece of meaningless clothe and burned, there are concerted actions to remove the pledge, and there are countless examples of our military being condemned for doing their job.
And sorry J2, but there simply aren’t enough actual “nazis” in our country for me to have ever seen them ‘usurping’ our flag with.

“Most of the time the perceived slight, such as the current NFL players kneeling, is “Trumped up”.”

No, it actually is not. People were just as ticked off when Kap started his BS last season.

“Using the flag and the military as deflections on issues like the the NFL players kneeling is wrong kctim.”

When was the last time you went to a game, J2? The announcer says something to the effect of ‘please rise and give respect to our country and its military.’ Pointing out that people refuse to show that respect, is not deflecting on the issues. Especially issues based on false narratives like this one.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2017 5:09 PM
Comment #420157
Going by history, leftist policy is policy that enlarges government so as to infringe upon individual rights in order to control behavior. Emotion is almost always used to ‘justify’ its need.

You’re talking about your local government here, right? The federal government has stayed the same size for decades. The increase in cost is the increase in welfare payments to billionaires, and a little to their subservient millionaires, and to contractors, who are also part of the 1% you don’t think controls anything. Conservatives are promoting this expensive system of doing business, so that more money flows to their friends, themselves, and the donor class that owns the entire government, and makes the government pay for their losses and failures.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 5:39 PM
Comment #420158

“Only in the mind of a conservative could individual rights be subject to the whims of emotional desire.”

Then why are they wanting the NFL to take action against those kneeling, instead of destroying the stadium and attacking those who kneel?

Why are all the claims of not caring directed at those on the right rather than those on the left who only pretend to care?

You’ve tried this in the past, Warren, and it didn’t work then either.

Posted by: kctim at September 26, 2017 5:52 PM
Comment #420159

In the same speech Trump was calling a young black American football player a “son-of-a-b*tch” for protesting against racial injustice, Trump once again called the Russian investigation a “hoax.” Now this is interesting because even as he said that, Facebook admitted the Russians bought $100,000 in advertising- in rubles- for 3,000 or more adds. Facebook will turn over their info to the Mueller investigation and to Congress. What makes this interesting is that the Russians micro-targeted their propaganda. Using sophisticated profiles, they were able to target specific groups of voters at the precinct level.

In addition, in Florida a Russian front called “Being Patriotic” generated 17 pro-Trump, anti-Hillary, anti-immigrant events. The organizer in Texas was called “Heart for Texas.” In Idaho, the Russians organized a march in Twin Falls through social media.

The Russians were very, very effective.
Their knowledge of American demographics was remarkable. What makes this interesting is a simple question: Did the Russians do this on their own, or did they have Americans helping them?

The key is Cambridge Analytica, run by Jared Kushner.

Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, is expected to be indicted within two months. It was already announced that the Mueller investigation would share its info with the NY AG, which means a pardon by Trump will not protect Manafort from prosecution at the state level. But Manafort is a tough customer, used to dealing with oligarchs and the Russian mafia. He will go to jail before life before turning because if he squeals, his life will not be worth a plug nickel. However, there are others who see these announcements about an impending indictment, and they WILL turn. One candidate is Rick Dearborn. Another might by Flynn.

Posted by: phx8 at September 26, 2017 6:25 PM
Comment #420160

“…Trump was calling a young black American football player a “son-of-a-b*tch”

False phx8…provide the actual quote you liar. You are so easy to denounce because you have no facts.

“$100,000 in advertising” bought the presidential election…wow, anyone besides phx8 believe this nonsense?

phx8 doesn’t know a damn thing about the Mueller investigation that he can verify as coming from the source. All is hearsay.

President Trump is in full charge of the DOJ and Mueller.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 26, 2017 6:39 PM
Comment #420161

RF,
Go back to earlier in this thread. I already proved Trump was referring to the young black quarterback. Why would you pretend otherwise?

The $100,000 bought 3,000 or more ads. These reached tens of millions of people because advertising on social media is incredibly cheap, and incredibly effective. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. This is just the first admission by FB. In addition, Twitter was swamped by Russian bots. And the Russians used FB criteria to push stories to the top of the headlines; more people get their news from FB than any other source.

Did advertising sway the election? Does advertising work?

As for the Mueller investigation, not much is known. They did make it known they were sharing everything with the NY AG, which means pardons won’t protect people from state prosecution. The requests by the investigation for certain documents, and the hard ball tactics they have used against Manafort do point to a rapid and early indictment. They made that known too because they want Manafort to flip (which he probably won’t do), but more importantly, they wants others to realize the timer is running, and they had better flip soon or do a long prison sentence. They might avoid a federal jail if they are convicted, but Rikers and Sing Sing are not nice places, from what I hear.

Posted by: phx8 at September 26, 2017 7:02 PM
Comment #420162
The key is Cambridge Analytica, run by Jared Kushner. Posted by: phx8 at September 26, 2017 6:25 PM

It’s actually a Mercer family organization.

“In 2017 CA claimed that it has psychological profiles of 220 million US citizens based on 5,000 separate data sets.” used for “political-voter surveillance”.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 7:06 PM
Comment #420163

“I already proved Trump was referring to the young black quarterback.”

Pure bullshit phx8.

Using your logic, I can prove Obama is a Martian.

“These reached tens of millions of people because advertising on social media is incredibly cheap, and incredibly effective.”

What a load of nonsense. Please tell the political parties so they don’t waste hundreds of millions on real campaign ads. phx8 actually believes his own lies. That is truly a mental problem.

“…sharing everything with the NY AG…” That means absolutely nothing. States don’t prosecute federal crimes.

“They might avoid a federal jail if they are convicted, but Rikers and Sing Sing are not nice places, from what I hear.”

That fuzzy thinking reminds me of an alcoholic friend who died some years ago. His only reality existed in his distorted dreams.


Posted by: Royal Flush at September 26, 2017 7:17 PM
Comment #420164

Here’s some interesting info for my Liberal Pals who accuse everyone, except for themselves, of racism.

“The United Nations, in a 1950 statement, opted to “drop the term ‘race’ altogether and speak of “ethnic groups”. In this case, there are more than 5,000 ethnic groups in the world, according to a 1998 study published in the Scientific American.”

Will Liberals on WB please tell us which (by name) of the 5,000 ethnic groups we conservatives feel we are superior to.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 26, 2017 7:38 PM
Comment #420166
Then why are they wanting the NFL to take action against those kneeling, instead of destroying the stadium and attacking those who kneel?

Why are all the claims of not caring directed at those on the right rather than those on the left who only pretend to care?

You’ve tried this in the past, Warren, and it didn’t work then either.


Colin Kaepernick and his compatriots are fighting to protect an individual’s right to equal protection under the law and nothing else. Is equal protection under the law something dreamed up by the emotional desires of leftists? Posted by: Warren Porter at September 26, 2017 8:42 PM
Comment #420167

phx8 & Ohrealy,

Please don’t disturb Royal Flush right now. He’s living in a fantasy world where up is down, left is right and truth is fiction.

Turns out Mueller’s team is doing their homework and quickly gathering facts and evidence. Royal Flush prefers to believe that Mueller is wasting taxpayer time and money following a bunch of false leads. I won’t comment on the specifics until Mueller’s work is done, but we can all agree that the signs do not look good for those involved in Trump’s campaign. The leaks coming from Congress and those being investigated certainly aren’t pretty.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 26, 2017 9:03 PM
Comment #420169
No, it is not an exaggeration to say that the far-left has been attacking our country, its flag, its pledge and its military for decades now.

Yes it is kctim, there are less “attacks” on our country , the flag, the pledge and the military than there are Nazi’s with their swastika flag and/or the confederate flag. So exaggeration is exactly what you are spouting. Your partisanship is showing.

American exceptionalism is mocked,

So what? This vague ideology is nothing but an excuse to gain empire by a bunch of conservatives. It isn’t the Constitution, the rule of law or anything but an ideology that is based upon the old class and race based systems and imperialism.

Face it kctim someone that criticizes the ideology isn’t necessarily mocking it. Perhaps you should be a bit more accurate, say… American exceptionalism is discussed and or critiqued by someone then some right wing idiot like Hannity claims it is mocked as if it were some indisputable truth. Movement followers then spread the propaganda, without thinking, as they are told.

American exceptionalism isn’t a deity whose name cannot be mentioned it is an ideology that is subject to the rigors of debate. It isn’t

our flag is called just a piece of meaningless clothe and burned,

Can you remember the last time this happened in this country? However disrespect of the flag is very common amongst all political persuasions. Kneeling doesn’t seem to be included.
https://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2011/06/seven_ways_to_disrespect_the_a/

there are concerted actions to remove the pledge,

Well what do you expect when you screw with the original version by throwing religion into the mix? Perhaps if conservatives would have left the pledge as the author intended it wouldn’t be a problem, not that it really is a problem except in public schools.

and there are countless examples of our military being condemned for doing their job.

The military as a group I would agree over the years it has been criticized not condemned. The individual soldier not so much unless some atrocity was committed. Once again gross exaggeration is the tool of the propagandist. Goebbels would be proud of your effort to cloud the issue.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2017 9:57 PM
Comment #420170

There’s soon to be a perjury charge!


Posted by: Weary Willie at September 26, 2017 10:05 PM
Comment #420171
When was the last time you went to a game, J2? The announcer says something to the effect of ‘please rise and give respect to our country and its military.’ Pointing out that people refuse to show that respect, is not deflecting on the issues. Especially issues based on false narratives like this one.

So what? Forced participation is respectful? And if you don’t stand it is disrespect to the flag! Show me this one in the flag book. Jesus get over yourself Kim Jong. Kinda like CAP has been saying “own time own dime” on the forced participation thing.

What about those in wheel chairs are they disrespectful even if they cannot stand? Maybe you should ask for a constitutional amendment to require all people to stand for the pledge of allegiance and the singing of the national anthem at all activities every day Kim Jong..


Yes it is deflecting kctim. The issue is what the NFL players are kneeling for. Trying to “out patriotism” them is the picture next to the dictionary definition of deflecting.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 26, 2017 10:23 PM
Comment #420172

Fake News endlessly harrassed Bowe Bergdahl, calling him every name under the sun and opining about whatever else they wanted to happen to him, making one individual soldier into an outlaw, trying to act as his judge jury and executioner, and are still harassing him to this day.

At the same time they were in a tizzy about some idiot who “accidentally” crossed the border into Mexico with a trunk full of guns and ammo, stating that our gun laws should take precedence over Mexico’s concerns about what the heck the guy was doing.

I’m sorry if anyone was inconvenienced by having to see all those demonstrations of unity and solidarity that the POS caused with his thoughtless attacks while campaigning for a loser in Alabama, where even the football teams are crooked.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 26, 2017 10:31 PM
Comment #420173

It just keeps getting stranger… Moore won the GOP primary in Alabama. Moore was ousted from the judiciary- twice- for refusing to enforce the law. Today he campaigned in a leather vest and cowboy hat, and waved around a tiny gun at a campaign rally. Steve Bannon told the people at a rally that others would think they are “a pack of morons.” Gosh. I can’t imagine why.

In the defense of Alabama Republicans, the establishment candidate, Strange, was corrupt. So that was quite a choice: a crook, or a crazy guy in a leather vest and cowboy hat waving a tiny gun. The crazy guy won. By a large margin.

Posted by: phx8 at September 26, 2017 10:40 PM
Comment #420178

warren

“I won’t comment on the specifics until Mueller’s work is done,”

Like you have sensitive information that no one else has. Sorry but that is funny.

” but we can all agree that the signs do not look good for those involved in Trump’s campaign”

Actually the only one that appears to have problems is Manafort, and they are connected to his consulting work done long before the campaign. Mueller and the rest of the leftist hacks helping him are on a witch hunt, and out to destroy Trump by any means. Funny how all his team members are big den donors. Their credibility has been questionable from the beginning.

Posted by: dbs at September 27, 2017 6:56 AM
Comment #420181

“…equal protection under the law…”

Warren appears to have a new definition of “equal protection” in the workplace that he will consider sharing with us uninformed “deplorable’s”. I am asking nicely Warren.


Posted by: Royal Flush at September 27, 2017 2:09 PM
Comment #420182

“I won’t comment on the specifics until Mueller’s work is done…”

Ooooo…boy…has Warren found the “underlying crime” Mueller is charged with finding? Please, please, tell us.

Our Pal phx8 defends the traitor Bowe Bergdahl and despises President Trump’s decision to pardon Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Hmmm…just wondering about our honorable previous president releasing 160 really bad killers from Gitmo.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 27, 2017 2:23 PM
Comment #420187

“there are less “attacks” on our country , the flag, the pledge and the military than there are Nazi’s with their swastika flag”

No, there actually isn’t. And it isn’t even close.
A few wannabe ‘nazi’s’, who have been completely marginalized by 99.9% of Americans btw, get together and wave their stupid flag just once in a blue moon.
Meanwhile, we have mass rallies of thousands condemning our country, burning our flag, and disparaging our military. Our pledge is being forced out of our schools.

“This vague ideology is nothing but an excuse to gain empire by a bunch of conservatives. It isn’t the Constitution, the rule of law or anything but an ideology that is based upon the old class and race based systems and imperialism.”

Only for those of you who wish to pretend to live in the past. Being proud of ones country and being proud to be a part of it, should not be attacked.
Your attempt to dismiss love of country on brainwashing, is exactly what I am talking about.
Sad.

“Can you remember the last time this happened in this country?

Go to youtube and you will find plenty of recent examples.

“Perhaps if conservatives would have left the pledge as the author intended it wouldn’t be a problem”

The far leftists don’t like what the pledge stands for, J2. Even without the word God in it, they still want it abolished. Their goal isn’t to remove a meaningless word, it’s to change the country.

“Goebbels would be proud of your effort to cloud the issue.”

If you can’t argue your point with facts, just say so. This ridiculous habit of name calling and deflecting that you guys have resorted to is growing tiresome.

Posted by: kctim at September 27, 2017 5:15 PM
Comment #420188

The Mueller team recently requested documents from the White House covering 13 areas.

1. Four of the requests center on Flynn
2. Three concern Obstruction of Justice with the Comey firing. One in particular addresses the meeting Trump held in the Oval Office with the Russian Ambassador & Foreign Minister the day following the firing, when Trump said it relieved “great pressure” for him because of the Russian investigation.
3. Anything to do with Manafort
4. The June meeting between Trump Jr., Kushner, Manafort, and various Russians with military intelligence backgrounds, hacking, and so on.

Interestingly enough, none of the document requests involve potential money laundering or past financial crimes by Trump. That may not mean anything one way or the other.

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2017 5:20 PM
Comment #420189


When was the last time you went to a game, J2? The announcer says something to the effect of ‘please rise and give respect to our country and its military.’ Pointing out that people refuse to show that respect, is not deflecting on the issues. Especially issues based on false narratives like this one.

“So what? Forced participation is respectful?”

It’s not “forced participation”, it’s called common courtesy and respect. You can think about the rack two aisles down if you want.

The left are the only one’s talking about govt mandate forcing participation. As usual, you have to resort to fear mongering to try and get your way. It’s really quite pathetic.

“The issue is what the NFL players are kneeling for.”

A false narrative? Good luck with that one. LOL!

The ONLY issue is whether or not the NFL is going to allow politics to become part of the game. If they are, then the fans will decide.

Posted by: kctim at September 27, 2017 5:32 PM
Comment #420190

DRUM ROLL PLEASE…phx8 will now tell us exactly what the “underlying crime” is.

The special counsel regulation specifies that the attorney general or acting attorney general has to have an underlying crime for a special counsel to pursue.

Will some Libbie please tell us. What is the CRIME being investigated?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 27, 2017 5:34 PM
Comment #420191

Obstruction of Justice by Trump. Investigation of obstruction was confirmed in June.

Violation of campaign finance laws by Trump Jr., Manafort, Kushner, and possibly Trump.

Failure to list foreign contacts on security clearance requests. Kushner is in deep on that one, including multiple meetings with Russians.

FARA violations by Manafort and Flynn for failing to register as agents working on behalf of foreign governments.

Money laundering by Manafort.

We already know the Russians interfered with our election. We know the Russians wanted Trump in the White House, and the Russians feared Hillary. The question is, did Trump coordinate with the Russians? To this day, Trump refuses to ever say anything bad about Putin, and has repeatedly pushed policies that aid the Russians while harming the United States by undermining our alliances.

Is Trump compromised?

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2017 5:55 PM
Comment #420192

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said Special Counsel Robert Mueller can investigate any crimes that he might discover within the scope of his probe, but the deputy attorney general would not discuss which individuals are the subject of their inquiry.

“The special counsel is subject to the rules and regulations of the Department of Justice, and we don’t engage in fishing expeditions”

OK phx8. I gave you the summation of the investigation by the DAG. Please give me the factual quotes you have declaring the “underlying crimes”. There are none.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 27, 2017 6:17 PM
Comment #420193

They haven’t been convicted of a crime, therefore there should not be an investigation?

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2017 6:33 PM
Comment #420195

Let’s make this simple phx8. Give me a link to Special Counsel Mueller revealing the “underlying crimes” he is authorized to investigate.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 27, 2017 7:37 PM
Comment #420197
It’s not “forced participation”, it’s called common courtesy and respect. You can think about the rack two aisles down if you want.

It is respectful yet at the same time kctim it is forced participation by peer pressure . Don’t get me wrong kctim I do it every time. But if you think it isn’t forced start loudly trash talking and drinking your beer while staring at the rack two rows down during the national anthem.
If common courtesy is part of your value system it should come naturally shouldn’t it? Not be forced on us each and every time we are at a stadium to watch any event?

Posted by: j2t2 at September 27, 2017 7:57 PM
Comment #420198

“Rosenstein gave him broad authority not only to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated” with Trump’s campaign, but also to examine “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.”

Rosenstein also gave Mueller the power to investigate “any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)” — including perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses.”

“… the FBI is examining Russian purchases of Trump properties, Trump’s relationship with a real estate company co-founded by a Russian-American businessman (who stands accused of using the firm to commit fraud), and Trump’s sale of a Florida mansion to a Russian oligarch in 2008.

His negotiations to bring the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow in 2013 — and his meeting with a group of Russian oligarchs while he was there — are also under scrutiny, along with the Trump family’s bank of choice, Deutsche Bank.

Deutsche Bank was fined earlier this year as part of a Russian money-laundering scheme that involved its Moscow, New York, and London branches. The bank refused in June to hand over documents requested by five Democratic lawmakers related to the bank’s relationship with Trump, citing the confidentiality of nonpublic customer information. But the FBI is likely to get ahold of them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-authority-russia-investigation-2017-7

Additional roads are unwinding with the investigation into FB propaganda. Another site with 268,000 followers has been identified as a Russian front: United Muslims of America.

This is in addition to “Being Patriotic” in FL and “Heart for Texas.”

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2017 8:09 PM
Comment #420199
Meanwhile, we have mass rallies of thousands condemning our country,

Not condemning the country kctim, get a grip man this is exactly the type of statement that gets the exaggeration award. They are fighting for a cause, protesting,the militarization of the police force in some areas of the country. The police becoming the judge jury and executioner way to often without punishment. That is the reason for the rallies and the reason the NFL players took a knee during the singing of the national anthem. Raising awareness not disrespecting or condemning the country.

burning our flag, and disparaging our military.

Exaggeration once again kctim and not really relevant o the NFL players. Seems you hold a grudge for decades on this issue.


Our pledge is being forced out of our schools.

Well it isn’t really our pledge anymore. It is some on ours pledge now that conservatives co-opted the pledge and change the wording to exclude some of the rest of us. I would suggest returning our pledge to it’s original form if you want to see it in school. Besides I think your pledge is still recited in many schools yet today. IMHO you should put the blame for this directly on conservatives as they caused this division in the people of this country.

BTW why is “mass rallies of thousands” not the same as “A few wannabe ‘nazi’s’, who have been completely marginalized by 99.9% of Americans btw, get together and wave their stupid flag just once in a blue moon”

Seems to me you have partisan blinders on kctim. Why isn’t it “few wannabe BLM’s who have been…..”? The numbers are smaller than the far right wing extremist you say are marginalized yet got Trump elected to office.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 27, 2017 8:25 PM
Comment #420201

Right wingers just can’t do math. The POS was flat broke. He had to take a job working in television to earn money. Then all of a sudden he claims to have a lot more money than he ever had. From where do you think that money came, if it even exists? Someone bought the Sun Times Daily News building in Chicago, tore it down, and built a very much larger building with no financing from any bank in The United States of America. Deutsche Bank financed it. Then he sued them because he couldn’t repay them, but they gave him more money anyway. Do you think that money was just given to him because he’s such a brilliant businessman or negotiator? He started out with millions from his dad and ended up billions in debt. No bank in this country, including the people who work in his administration now, would ever lend him any money. Do The Math. Money doesn’t grow on trees, and there’s an enormous difference between millions and billions. It’s not just a different letter at the beginning, it’s three extra zeros at the end.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 27, 2017 9:26 PM
Comment #420202

>blockquote>The left are the only one’s talking about govt mandate forcing participation.

The problem,kctim, isn’t talking about it the problem is doing it. Conservatives are doing it. It is a political tool , yes conservatives would abuse their own mother, apple pie and country to gain power. Stop being so foolish kctim, you have fallen for political propaganda.
Face it my friend the Military paid the NFL to have these forced military tributes. The common courtesy and respectful thing is laughable when you realize it is about the money.


As usual, you have to resort to fear mongering to try and get your way. It’s really quite pathetic.

Facts are a fearful thing for you guys kctim. Pathetic is falling for them. You win that hands down. I suggest you stop deflecting and focus more on the reason the NFL players are taking a knee to stop the brutality at the hands of government law enforcement officers.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 28, 2017 12:02 AM
Comment #420215

“It is respectful yet at the same time kctim it is forced participation by peer pressure.”

Succumbing to peer pressure is an individual failing, not an action of government that is forced upon us.

“But if you think it isn’t forced start loudly trash talking and drinking your beer while staring at the rack two rows down during the national anthem.”

I don’t have to deal with a hypothetical on this, J2. As an atheist I experience it very often. Prayers, silent prayers, moments of silence - I quietly sit or stand there and think about others things until they are done.

“They are fighting for a cause, protesting,the militarization of the police force in some areas of the country.”

The thousands rallying to condemn the country are doing so to protest government and speech that they do not agree with.

“The police becoming the judge jury and executioner way to often without punishment.”

Yes, that is supposed to be why the NFL players were taking a knee during our national anthem, but it is a false narrative, which is why neither the players or groups like blm receive much support.

“Seems you hold a grudge for decades on this issue.”

I have always been proud to be an American. I have served and fought for my country. So of course I am going to hold our flag and military in such high regard, and I most definitely hold a strong grudge against leftist extremists who burn the flag, disparage our military, or condemn our country.
Unlike the left though, I am not a hypocrite so I fully support their right to do those things. If the players wish to show disrespect, I couldn’t care less. They can on a tour displaying their stupidity all they want and I would still watch the NFL games they play in.
But if the NFL wishes to inject politics into their product, which has absolutely nothing to do with politics, I want no part of it.

Posted by: kctim at September 28, 2017 10:53 AM
Comment #420216

“The problem,kctim, isn’t talking about it the problem is doing it. Conservatives are doing it.”

Then you should have no problem naming the law that mandates forced participation at such events.

“Face it my friend the Military paid the NFL to have these forced military tributes.”

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.

“I suggest you stop deflecting and focus more on the reason the NFL players are taking a knee to stop the brutality at the hands of government law enforcement officers.”

First, you haven’t provided a fact for me to have any reason to deflect from.
Second, their supposed reasons mean nothing to me. They are nothing but victims of newspeak. Useful idiots.

Posted by: kctim at September 28, 2017 11:05 AM
Comment #420217
Succumbing to peer pressure is an individual failing, not an action of government that is forced upon us.
Then this comment is an individual failing? “I don’t have to deal with a hypothetical on this, J2. As an atheist I experience it very often. Prayers, silent prayers, moments of silence - I quietly sit or stand there and think about others things until they are done.”

Because I don’t think it is the same thing I was mentioning.

I would suggest it is peer pressure. Behavior forced upon you by those around you, to act as if you are praying.

Yes, that is supposed to be why the NFL players were taking a knee during our national anthem, but it is a false narrative, which is why neither the players or groups like blm receive much support.

But it isn’t false kctim. that is wishful thinking on your part. I would suggest they get more support than you realize. The conservative propaganda machine has the followers in an uproar but once they miss a game of two they will flip.

interesting link for you-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

can’t wait to here your rationalizations.

The thousands rallying to condemn the country are doing so to protest government and speech that they do not agree with.

And the problem with that is….??? I don’t see how exercising free speech rights, battling fascism, disagreeing with an idiot like Trump is an attack on the government or disrespectful to anyone that doesn’t deserve the disrespect. But this is a diversion isn’t it? Nothing to do with the NFL players.

But if the NFL wishes to inject politics into their product, which has absolutely nothing to do with politics, I want no part of it.

I’m that way with the rodeo and bull riding event at the local fair. They do the prayer, the national anthem song by a local kid usually, and the politics. I don’t have a problem with the praying and the national anthem (although the local kids usually aren’t quite as good as Lady Gaga) but the politics….yeah I don’t want no part of it. Unfortunately I am forced to go, not by government but by peer pressure. I try to go to just the amateur events where they skip the BS but the wife is willing to put up with the BS at the other events so I have to go as well.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 28, 2017 11:42 AM
Comment #420221

“…The police becoming the judge jury and executioner way to often without punishment.”

Really j2t2? Please provide just one single factual example. By the way, do you still believe the “hands up don’t shoot” fabrication?

We all know that hundreds of minorities are being murdered every day by non police in Chicago. I believe a demonstration in that city is warranted. Poor Rahm…he lied and told us that Chicago is a safe city.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 28, 2017 4:41 PM
Comment #420222

I wonder if phx8, Warren and j2t2 know this?

“The New York Times has retracted its claim that all 17 US intelligence agencies agreed that Russia was behind the hack of Democratic emails in an effort to influence the 2016 election in favor of Republican candidate Donald Trump.

The Times issued a correction after repeating the claim in a story bearing the headline “Trump’s Deflections and Denials on Russia Frustrate Even His Allies” on June 25.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 28, 2017 5:24 PM
Comment #420228

Context.

We know the CIA, FBI, NSA and DNI are all on board with January’s declassified assessment. The DNI represents all 17 agencies including the 13 who may not have had a direct role in producing the report. Still, no one has suggested that there is any dissent by any US intelligence unit or agency on this matter.

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 28, 2017 7:31 PM
Comment #420239

test message

WP, thanks for the good information, but you’re hollering at the skunk walking by outside the window.

Posted by: ohrealy at September 29, 2017 11:01 AM
Comment #420253

Good Grief, a college grad who can read but not comprehend.

“…retracted its claim that all 17 US intelligence agencies agreed that Russia was behind the hack of Democratic emails…”

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 29, 2017 2:44 PM
Comment #420256

Royal Flush,

Given the NYT statement, do you believe that any of the 17 agencies disagree with what was said in the report released earlier this year?

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 29, 2017 5:33 PM
Comment #420260

Warren, I am correcting those who repeatedly claimed that 17 US intelligence agencies agreed that Russia was behind the hack of Democratic emails. It is false.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 29, 2017 6:18 PM
Comment #420276
Really j2t2? Please provide just one single factual example.

Royal my previous comment has a link, read it.

We all know that hundreds of minorities are being murdered every day by non police in Chicago.

Jesus how stupid are conservatives? I mean this nonsense is repeated without thought. Tell you what Royal why don’t you prove “hundreds of minorities are being murdered every day in Chicago”. Can’t wait for the factual examples Royal.

While you are at it why not explain why you believe this falsehood is relevant. Do you believe that this excuses the police and their actions?

I believe a demonstration in that city is warranted. Poor Rahm…he lied and told us that Chicago is a safe city.

Politicizing the murder of people of this country by the police is reprehensible Royal, you should be ashamed. Especially when it is based upon your lie.


Posted by: j2t2 at September 30, 2017 12:30 AM
Comment #420281
Warren, I am correcting those who repeatedly claimed that 17 US intelligence agencies agreed that Russia was behind the hack of Democratic emails. It is false.

More word games, Royal Flush? Do you think any of the 13 relevant agencies disagree with the assessment released in January? If so, which ones?

Posted by: Warren Porter at September 30, 2017 7:42 AM
Comment #420292

LOL…once again one of my Liberal Pals has revealed their mental and/or moral deficiency.

We now have Warren calling truth a “word game”. I have proven a common assertion by the Left on WB to be false.

Now, my truth-challenged pal would have me speculate on what might be; rather than accept what is true, in his effort to save face.

This is very revealing as a common trait found among the most rabid defenders of the Liberal philosophy. The truth is subject to their interpretation. Facts are useful, but not necessary if they disagree with their perceptions.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 3:15 PM
Comment #420293

“Really j2t2? Please provide just one single factual example.”

He can’t.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 30, 2017 3:17 PM
Comment #420316
I have proven a common assertion by the Left on WB to be false.

The energy department’s office of intelligence didn’t contribute much to January’s report. I guess you can give yourself a pat on the back for figuring that out.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 1, 2017 9:56 AM
Comment #420325

What about the 13 other departments, Warren Porter. I mentioned the Coast Guard and you poo pooed my questions. You claimed the Coast Guard was as much a legitimate intelligence source as the other 16. Now you want to nit pick and claim the energy department didn’t contribute?

You can’t have it both ways, Warren Porter. 17 - 3 = 14. That means 14 agencies didn’t conclusively agree, period. You backed the 17 number when it was being reported as fact. You can’t suddenly say it’s irrelevant that you were wrong and expect us to forget about it.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 1, 2017 3:27 PM
Comment #420329

I don’t think the extent of contributions from the Department of Energy’s office of intelligence or the Coast Guard’s intelligence agency is of grave importance here. You guys are splitting hairs. At the end of the day, the conclusions represented in the report from January remain the consensus opinion of people throughout the intelligence community including the 13 agencies that didn’t contribute much to the report. And besides, the agencies that matter most and have the largest budgets (FBI, NSA & CIA) are the ones who authored the report.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 1, 2017 5:59 PM
Comment #420349
“Really j2t2? Please provide just one single factual example.”

He can’t.

Asked and answered Royal.

“Royal my previous comment has a link, read it.”

Posted by: j2t2 at October 2, 2017 11:40 AM
Comment #420351

So why didn’t what you said in your last comment dominate the news for months? Why did the number 17 keep coming up time after time? You used that number repeatedly to force the greater issue that still has not been proven.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 2, 2017 12:05 PM
Comment #420361
Why did the number 17 keep coming up time after time?

The report was issued by the DNI, which represents the consensus of 16 different agencies (the 17th is the DNI itself).

You used that number repeatedly to force the greater issue that still has not been proven.

Russia’s interference in last year’s election is a proven fact. You guys are making a mountain over a molehill. Who cares about the The DOE’s office of intelligence when the FBI, NSA and CIA are all in agreement? And it’s not like there is a single report of dissent coming from the DOE office of intelligence or any of the other 13 agencies.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2017 9:52 PM
Comment #420368

“Who cares…”

Warren, we care when lies are perpetrated and perpetuated. Some uneducated or uninformed person reading these lies might actually believe them.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 3, 2017 2:27 PM
Comment #420369

Lies are exactly what they were, and when the truth comes out Warren Porter insists we ignore them and ignore who perpetrated them.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 3, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #420375

If the talking point is a lie, surely someone can tell me which one of the 17 agencies does not agree with the DNI report from January? For the uninitiated, the 17 agencies are:

1. Air Force Intelligence
2. Army Intelligence
3. Central Intelligence Agency
4. Coast Guard Intelligence
5. Defense Intelligence Agency
6. Energy Department
7. Homeland Security Department
8. State Department
9. Treasury Department
10. Drug Enforcement Administration
11. Federal Bureau of Investigation
12. Marine Corps Intelligence
13. National Geospatial Intelligence Agency
14. National Reconnaissance Office
15. National Security Agency
16. Navy Intelligence
17. Office of the Director of National Intelligence
Which one is the dissenter? Who disagrees?

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 4, 2017 8:14 AM
Comment #420379

The lie was that 17 agencies agreed. That’s not true. 3 agencies agreed.
You’re trying to twist this into a debate on who disagreed. Sorry Warren Porter.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 4, 2017 9:27 AM
Comment #420380

There’s still no proof Russians hacked our elections. They didn’t support one side. They advertised against/for both sides. There was no definite benefactor to the Russians ad buys.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 4, 2017 9:30 AM
Comment #420381

WP, please write a new article and quit playing games with nincompoops.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 4, 2017 11:17 AM
Comment #420384

Your choir beckons, Warren Porter. They question, not!

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 4, 2017 2:57 PM
Comment #420386

Weary, it is easy to understand why many on the Left are so confused. They confuse emotion with fact. Warren doesn’t understand the meaning of the word “consensus.” He believes that consensus means everyone agrees. It certainly is not true in climate science. It is not true with the DNI.

Only in a Liberal mind would “no position” conflate to consensus.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 4, 2017 4:03 PM
Comment #420397

Because the DNI represents the whole intelligence community, technically speaking, anything that gets issued from there represents all 17 aforementioned agencies. Thus, because the October 7 and January 6 statements came from the DNI, they represent an agreement of 16 different agencies plus the DNI itself.

Now, I will take the high road and say it was disingenuous for Hillary Clinton to repeatedly say “17 agencies” at the third debate last year. That claim lacked proper context to explain that there was nothing remarkable about 17 because everything coming out of the DNI represents 17 agencies.

As noted before, the broader spirit of Hillary Clinton’s talking point remains quite true and is more important than ever before. The DNI concluded that Russia hacked last year’s election and there is no dissent from that conclusion within the intelligence community. Americans ought to interpret everything else through that lens. Apart from alleging widespread malice or incompetence within the IC, no respectable American can believe that Russia did not influence last year’s election.

However, I will note the stupid game Republicans have gotten very fond of playing in the age of Trump. Conservatives know they are married to a turd and they desperately need to rationalize it. Therefore, we see the constant application of binary morality. Either something is 100% pure (clean as wind driven snow in WW’s parlance) or it isn’t. Because Democrats are human, they make mistakes and play politics. Sometimes, Democratic talking points may not represent the whole truth (Politicians lie! Gasp!). Because Democrats fall short of perfection, it’s okay that Republicans’ turd isn’t perfect either, or so the faulty thinking goes.

Thus goes the perpetual cycle of faux outrage and false equivocations. Democrats fall short of perfection and the right wing propaganda machine screams at the top of its lungs. Meanwhile, vastly worse Republican sins are ignored.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 4, 2017 8:38 PM
Comment #420402

WP, see, that was much longer than many of the articles posted here. You can write, and then not publish the article until later, when you revise.

Posted by: ohrealy at October 4, 2017 9:08 PM
Comment #420406

Warren Porter says Democratics aren’t perfect. He’s also said Democratics only mistake is letting the Republicans destroy the country.

Yea, your mia culpa is appreciated, but you should have stopped before the “Your side does it too” argument came up.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 4, 2017 9:38 PM
Comment #420415
He’s also said Democratics only mistake is letting the Republicans destroy the country.
Where did I say this? Posted by: Warren Porter at October 5, 2017 6:40 AM
Comment #420419

You said it.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 5, 2017 8:41 AM
Comment #420424

17 WatchBloggers didn’t deny you said it, therefore you said it, Warren Porter.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 5, 2017 10:33 AM
Comment #420485

Where is the report from the Director of National Watchblogerdom?

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 6, 2017 3:57 PM
Comment #420489

Bazinga!

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 6, 2017 8:03 PM
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