Expect No Closure From the Russia Probes

There will be no closure.

There will be even more committee hearings - with Donald Jr. quickly moving to the head of the guest list at various House and Senate Intel Committees. There may very well be charges laid at some point when the low-key and methodical Special Counsel Mueller gets around to it with his team of top notch predators. Beyond the congressional hearings, there will definitely be lots and lots of interviews with persons of interest, who will be mercilessly cross-examined by the authorities, and if they display anything like the level of intelligence and political savvy that Donald Trump Jr. has displayed over the last few days, they will be charged with some of sort of obstruction of justice, for having given contradictory evidence during what will be multiple, lengthy and merciless interrogations by the FBI.

There will be little attention paid to Alexandra Chalupa, the former DNC official, who worked with Ukraine to try and uncover any dirt on Donald Trump's campaign. But that's news from early this year, in January, even if it was broken back then by Politico. It might be pointed to by someone like Trey Gowdy, but it will hardly go viral.

And that's a problem.

Yes, the tenor of Donald Jr's emails is disturbing. Whether they are illegal is up for a court to decide, although he may eventually be found in fact not to have committed a crime. What he at the very least has committed is an incredible political blunder. For the sloppy and naive way he entered into the meeting as much as for the meeting itself. But whatever the nature of any possible relationship - beyond the ample information given in his emails - with any actor from Russia, there is an overarching theme that will unlikely be changed by these latest events.

Rabid partisanship and tribal politics.

Maybe not. Maybe the committees will start behaving in true bipartisan fashion and let the facts lead, rather than going for the most extreme metaphor they can get their tongues around as long as cameras are rolling and iPhones recording. Unfortunately Tim Kaine has already leapt out from the gates and labelled Donald Jr.'s meeting (along with Manafort and Kushner) with Natalia Veselnitskaya as "treason". Potentially that is, he was kind enough to add.

Tim Kaine might want to review then Senator Ted Kennedy's offer to the Soviet Union regarding Reagan's re-election in 84 and how to sabotage it. It's in the records, but no one really seems to care at this point. Especially Democrats. In fairness to the late senator from Massachusetts, not even Ted Kennedy's offer to the Soviets can perhaps clearly be called treason.

At this point, there is precious little trust in government officials, and the flip side, a corresponding bloodthirsty partisanship that rolls like a tsunami over any calls for reasoned debate, drowning out the long lost art of political persuasion. Nobody trusts anybody's motives nowadays. And the way the Russia probes have and are playing out, one can't really blame the prevailing attitude.

Kaine and Schiff, or Gowdy if you're a Democrat angry about the Benghazi inquiry, command no respect from the other side. If sense is to be made of what exactly was any possible relationship between any key members of the current administration's campaign team and any Russian attempts to influence the 2016 election, then that will have to change.

Right now, it's more likely that the Russia probes will increase the partisan fighting and even widen internal party divisions as well. On both sides of the aisle. Does this mean that political parties - especially Democrats and Republicans in America - will not be anything like they are now within a few elections cycles? Is this the fumbling and snarling of nearly extinct predators, tearing flesh from each other around a shrinking watering hole?

Will the latest revelations by Donald Trump Jr. divide further rather than unite the committees? As a reflection of the intra-party fissures that make things like healthcare reform - never mind true repeal and replace - impossible for a government with majority rule in both chambers of congress, further division is almost certain.

There will be no closure regarding the Russia probe. It shall, and must, continue. But do not expect the partisanship to fade even ever so slightly should real collusion emerge. One can only hope that one's hope for bipartisan workmanship to get at the facts, is not naive, even if such a hope is rather optimistic at this point.

Posted by Keeley at July 12, 2017 2:42 PM
Comments
Comment #418036

As long as there is a drip, drip, drip, there will be no closure.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 12, 2017 3:23 PM
Comment #418037

You are correct. But legitimate polls are showing the American people are not concerned about the Russia/Trump investigation; but they are concerned about repealing Obamacare, taxes, the economy, and jobs. The left will continue to try to destroy Trump’s administration with the help of establishment never Trumper republicans, and the result will be continued support for Trump. Rush Limbaugh stated months ago a certain truth; the media did not create the Trump presidency and they certainly can’t destroy it. The media is absolutely perplexed that they have not been able to destroy Trump. The left, led by the media, have routinely misunderstood Donald Trump. All the media is doing is showing the American people how anti American they are. The supporters of Trump know that he is not a career politician and don’t expect him to know all the pitfalls and the gotcha moments. The left will not give up and it will further drive a wedge between themselves and the people. But their attempts will do nothing to turn Trumps supporters against him. The republicans had better get on board or the voters will turn against them.


Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 3:36 PM
Comment #418039

Does anyone pedaling the Russia/Trump connection actually believe this crap? Well…there may be some on WB that do, but certainly no person with a working mind.

There is a huge pot of money connected to keeping this nonsense alive. The mainstream media have grist for their always famished mill to grind; along with lucrative profits from their advertisers.

Politicians, magically imbued with impeccable logic and judgement upon crossing the Rubicon, are in great demand for prime-time interviews allowing them to pontificate and appear wise and informed hoping to enhance their reelection chances.

The ever growing Socialist class found in our institutions of higher learning devour such nonsense to buttress their hatred of everything democratic and capitalistic.

And finally, the welfare class with their outstretched arms seeking government largess, supports anything that will empower their Leftist benefactors.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 12, 2017 4:14 PM
Comment #418040

Trump, Pence, and Priebus repeatedly claimed no one from the campaign communicated with the Russians. That was false.

AG Sessions met with the Russian Ambassador and then lied about it during his confirmation, both aloud and in writing.

General Flynn also spoke with the Ambassador. When informed Flynn was subject to blackmail, Trump did nothing for 18 days. He only fired the National Security Advisor when it was reported in the media. Since then, Flynn has asked for immunity, and retroactively filed as a Foreign Agent.

Carter Page spoke with the Russians. Has interviewed with the FBI five times already.

Former national security policy aide J.D. Gordon met with the Ambassador at the convention, and was instrumental in making the one and only change to the GOP platform at Trump’s request- barring the US from shipping arms to our Ukrainian ally.

Paul Manafort attended the infamous meeting with the Russian lawyer. He has since retroactively filed as a Foreign Agent.

Trump Jr. attended the meeting too. The e-mailed shared between him, Manafort, and Kushner made it clear the Russian government wanted to give material to the Trump campaign. Trump Jr. said “I love it.” He did not call the FBI; instead, he eagerly accepted the meeting. At first, he claimed he did not know what the meeting was about, or who it was with. Then he claimed it was about adoptions. Once the e-mail was put out there it became obvious he was lying, and had every intention of colluding with a hostile foreign power to influence the US election.

Kushner also attended that meeting, as well as one with the head of a Russian bank, and a third meeting as well. None of these meetings was listed when Kushner put in his security clearance.

Most of these guys have committed crimes, such as backfiling their status as foreign agents, or failing to report meetings with the Russians on their security clearance. Perhaps the Special Counsel will decide their crimes do not merit prosecution, and he will just affectionately rub their heads and say ‘now g’wan, get outta here ya little scamps, and don’t let me catch you meeting with Russians again!’ (Shaking his head) ‘Ya knuckleheads.’

Maybe.

More likely, he will hold the possibility of prosecution and prison over the heads of each one. They all know the other might cut a deal, so if there is anything to say, whoever talks first stays out of jail.

Posted by: phx8 at July 12, 2017 5:10 PM
Comment #418042

“Most of these guys have committed crimes”

So why aren’t they charged with a crime?

Let me say this again with emphasis, “WHERE’S THE EVIDENCE?”

Talk, talk, talk…where is your evidence?

Until then, you’re just a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal.

Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 5:25 PM
Comment #418043

Blaine and I agree. We both ask phx8; “where’s the meat?”

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 12, 2017 5:30 PM
Comment #418045

Ph has nothing and neither does j2 or any other socialist. It’s all talk. Every time the media led democrats come out with another gotcha, they start wetting all over themselves, believing we finally have Trump, only to be foiled once again. The problem is, when the NYT, MSNBC, CNN, and some of the others finally figure out they have nothing…the word fails to trickle down to ph and j2. They never get the message. But, today, they believe they finally have Trump. But it doesn’t matter, no one cares. You made a good point Royal, Alan Dershowitz, who is a liberal, believes the left are destroying their own party by making fools of themselves chasing rabbits.

Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 5:59 PM
Comment #418046

The crime was the Russian attack on the 2016 elections. They committed the crime in order to advance their own interests, namely, harm Hillary Clinton and put Trump in office.

Now the question is this: did the Trump campaign help them?

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”
Donald Trump
7/27/16

And in what is surely just another coincidence-

This is a good one-

Remember that female Russian lawyer Trump Jr., Manafort, and Kushner met with? She represented the company of a Russian oligarch accused of money laundering in NYC real estate. The DOJ under Obama was after that firm and making life miserable for them.

Remember when Trump asked for the resignations of all those District Attorneys, and then had to fire one who wouldn’t go away? Well, shortly after that one was gone, DOJ abruptly settled with the Russian firm on favorable terms. Poof! The DOJ investigation into money laundering went away for a nominal settlement. She is quite the lawyer. Way to make it rain! Wonder if she had some help…

Posted by: phx8 at July 12, 2017 6:38 PM
Comment #418047

“The crime was the Russian attack on the 2016 elections.”

Where is the proof phx8?

Hillary would advance Russian interests by diminishing our military and causing an increase in the price of oil.

Your remaining arguments are simply silly.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 12, 2017 6:45 PM
Comment #418048

I found a site on Facebook that6 had a whole bunch of phx8’s and j2’s it’s called “Represent us” liberals making fools out of themselves by the droves with their nonsensical comments about Trump jr. They forgot that Hillary did the same thing during the campaign with the Ukrainians. Then we have 2 IDIOT Democrat congressmen filing articles of impeachment on the President for firing Comey.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 12, 2017 6:47 PM
Comment #418049

Royal, this is how the crazies on the left work; firstthey make an accusation without proof as if it were fact “The crime was the Russian attack on the 2016 elections”. Then they build on the false premise by making comments like “did the Trump campaign help them?” Now mind you the first statement is false (no proof) and everything after that is conjecture. This is how the fake media has been operating for the past 7 months. False insinuation and the hypothetical conclusions. The sad thing about the media is that somewhere buried in their article is a claim that there is no evidence. Unnamed sources claim, no written evidence, but our conclusions are…..

Ph goes on for 2 paragraphs, building a lengthy case on a fake premise.

The reason ph and j2’s friends have abandoned them on WB is because they understand there is no evidence.

The 2 congressmen calling for articles of impeachment must be from California. They are trying to appease their mind dead constituents. There ought to be a test given to politicians to qualify that they have enough sense to fill a position of congressmen or senators.

Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 7:45 PM
Comment #418050

Sadly Blaine, you are correct about how the “crazies” work.

I am totally disappointed with Republicans in both houses. They control all the committees and yet they hold no hearings on the crimes I believe were committed by the scumbags in the Obama administration.

I understand that some of them don’t like, or actually hate, President Trump. Yet, one would think they could rise above their petty grievances for the benefit of our nation and the American people.

I believe we are a nation doomed to decline and irrelevance unless our leaders wake up and do what is right.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 12, 2017 7:57 PM
Comment #418051

RF & KAP,
Hillary Clinton is not president and she holds no office. She is not under investigation for anything, although there is a GOP Congress & White House that could if they saw anything. Hate her all you want, but nothing you say will distract attention away from Trump & the GOP.

Blaine,
So you disbelieve the unanimous conclusion of your country’s own intelligence agencies? Those people swore an oath to defend the Constitution. Some have died for it. And you believe the FBI, CIA, NSA, as well as private companies and allies like the Brits, French, Germans, and Dutch are wrong?

You believe Trump and Putin?

Posted by: phx8 at July 12, 2017 8:03 PM
Comment #418052

You’re correct Royal, the American people have given the republicans a one time chance to get this right, but the republicans followed for so long they don’t know how to lead. They think that if they compromise with the left, the media and the democrats will like them. They don’t understand the vitriol and hate coming from the left. All those accusations from democrats of how violent conservatives are, and yet it has always been the left who protest and commit violence. I guarantee that ph and j2 are beside themselves and fuming with hatred at what Trump is doing. Rush Limbaugh made a comment last year about the lack of sense of humor on the left. An example is when Trump made a joke and called on the Russians to find Hillary’s missing 33k emails; but the left went spastic, of which we still see ph obsessed about the comment.

Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 8:13 PM
Comment #418053

Ok ph, if you can show me the evidence of the Russian attack on the 2016 presidential elections and affecting the outcome causing Hillary to lose, I’ll accept it. If you can’t do that, then you have no case.

Posted by: Blaine at July 12, 2017 8:20 PM
Comment #418054

phx8, Your right Hillary isn’t president and neither is Trump jr. So if we can investigate him for doing something wrong why not the Hillary team also for doing the same?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 12, 2017 8:43 PM
Comment #418055

“… the lack of sense of humor on the left. An example is when Trump made a joke and called on the Russians to find Hillary’s missing 33k emails.”

Just to be absolutely clear; Trump was not joking. When he first made the comment, no one laughed. Shortly afterwards, Spicer said Trump was joking. Trump then tweeted the exact same comment. Journalist Katy Tur asked him about that comment and whether it was appropriate. Trump repeated it and made it clear he was serious. When Tur pressed the point, Trump became angry and told her to “be quiet.” The attempt to spin it as a joke came after everyone realized the horrific nature of what Trump was saying.

Posted by: phx8 at July 12, 2017 9:59 PM
Comment #418056
The reason ph and j2’s friends have abandoned them on WB is because they understand there is no evidence.

In light of the extraordinary revelation regarding Donald Trump Jr, I decided to visit Watchblog for the first time in over a month. Your shrill whining up and down this page leaves me satisfied with my decision to take a break from here. Trust me, my silence should never be interpreted as a tacit concession of any sort. Rather, it is just an indication of how pathetic today’s right wing talking points are. I have better things to do than engage with Tu Quoque allegations built on lies and deception.

KAP, Blaine and Royal Flush rest their laurels on the fact that we are only in the first stage of this drama. So, there haven’t been any indictments and the most damning evidence remains classified and under wraps. But that really shouldn’t give a Trump supporter much solace. We are only 2 months into Bob Mueller’s investigation and I wouldn’t expect him to be finished until late 2018.

Until Mueller’s final report is published, I suggest Watchblog conservatives keep their mouths shut. It might be best to conserve a modicum of credibility for the future as your comments defending the pursuit of illegally obtained opposition research from Russia will not age well.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 12, 2017 10:08 PM
Comment #418057

Warren,

Well said.

Posted by: Rich at July 12, 2017 10:17 PM
Comment #418058

As for a sense of humor and comedians… Are there conservative comedians? I had to look it up. I came up with Dennis Miller, Greg Gutfield, Jeff Foxworthy, and Larry the Cable Guy. The last two do not really do political humor. Miller never drew enough ratings to do his own show, as far as I know. Gutfield tried it and did poorly.

Nearly every comedian of national significance is a leftist: Stewart, Oliver, Colbert, the staff of The Onion, the SNL cast, Bill Maher, Portlandia (with leftists making fun of the left), and more. The comedians are liberals and their audiences are liberals.

If conservatives have a great sense of humor, they have yet to find anyone to follow on a national level. Sad!

Posted by: phx8 at July 12, 2017 10:28 PM
Comment #418059

The reason the friends of pdx8 and j2t2 don’t respond here is because there is nothing here except the posts of j2t2 and pdx8. Even right wingers who used to make sense are quoting from nonsense websites. It’s like looking into an unflushed toilet, an overflowing garbage pail, and an overused outhouse.
“You can’t polish this turd”.

drumpf was a manchurian candidate from the beginning, and this was known by the leaders of the punk party. He should have been arrested as soon as he said, “russia, if you’re listening”.

On the pardons issue, they should arrest kushner on one small blackmail charge and see what drumpf does.

assange tried to insert himself back into this by offering to be the one publishing the email chain.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 12, 2017 10:36 PM
Comment #418060

Ahh, we have awakened the beasts.

Ph, the leftist who are comedians stand before their liberal audiences and find comedy in the same things you enjoy; which is insulting conservatives, especially women and children conservatives. Other than that, they have no sense of humor.

Warped, no whining on our part. Maybe some gloating, but no whining. You’ve been gone a month, but your comments never change. You warn us to not count our chickens before they’re hatched, and then you go on to tell us how your side is going to win. Warped, I don’t expect you to base your arguments on evidence. If I remember correctly, you wanted to ignore the evidence and the jury’s verdict of not guilty in the George Zimmerman case and throw him in prison. So whatever you have to say is already tainted.

Regarding orag or whatever you call yourself, You appear to be no different than ph and j2, you make accusations on a false premise and then continue the fallacy by building conclusions, with I might add, no evidence.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 12:08 AM
Comment #418062

Blaine, still trolling I see. You tell me you don’t want a response from me in the last thread and then mention me several times in this thread despite the fact I haven’t posted a comment. You must miss my opinion…So….

Since we are rehashing the same subject in this thread, yes it is the red column again isn’t it, perhaps it will serve you to remember the lessons from the last thread. You complain that I don’t have anything to back up any allegations, kinda like you guys did for years when Obama was president, but that didn’t matter then, so I ask you once again why do you think it matters now?

You keep complaining that my premise is false yet offer nothing to prove this statement. Blaine, you blather things like ” I guarantee that ph and j2 are beside themselves and fuming with hatred at what Trump is doing” yet you know nothing and obviously can’t read what I have said regarding Trump the past several months. No facts on your part just blathering. In fact I want Trump to remain in office as I have stated here on WB several times.

You suggest,Blaine, that we have no sense of humor yet I can’t help but laugh at you when you try to defend Trump. I laugh even more when I see the Trumpster on TV, as orange as can be, and wonder if them golden shower rumors are true. Yep it does explain the orange tint doesn’t it?

Whether or not Trump has had some dalliance with Russian prostitutes or not it is the job of the free press to report the allegations, especially when they come from reputable sources such former British intelligence personnel. If the FBI decided to investigate this possible threat to national security, and surely it is a threat to national security if Putin has videos of Trump engaging in this , what did you call it.. oh yes… perverted activity. To think this isn’t a legitimate concern of the American people is wrong Blaine.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.unNRg8L3n#.nhrmrPN9x

Speaking of hate it seems our president should lead the way but alas it seems he is to busy hating on the Obama’s.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 13, 2017 1:19 AM
Comment #418072

j2, the definition of a troll is someone who post inflammatory and false material. So you link to the original dossier that was posted on Buzzfeed on Jan. 10, 2017. Then you make this comment based upon the Buzzfeed dossier, which infers that the dossier is true and worthy of an investigation. I asked you to provide the origin of the dossier, but you didn’t, you only quoted what the media spun.

“Whether or not Trump has had some dalliance with Russian prostitutes or not it is the job of the free press to report the allegations, especially when they come from reputable sources such former British intelligence personnel. If the FBI decided to investigate this possible threat to national security, and surely it is a threat to national security if Putin has videos of Trump engaging in this , what did you call it.. oh yes… perverted activity. To think this isn’t a legitimate concern of the American people is wrong Blaine.”

To save time, I will just quote this article on the history of the dossier:

Remember how this all got started. This dossier was put together ostensibly for Trump to see. If you recall, during the transition, Trump was openly and publicly saying that he didn’t need to get an intel briefing every day, that he was a smart guy and that he had a good memory.

So he didn’t need to meet with these guys every day. Well, the intel community heard that and thought that Trump was acing them out. So the story goes that the intel community wanted to present Trump with some intelligence that would influence him to see them every day, because they care about what they do and they’re trying to find all the trouble spots, and they want to be close to power like everybody else does in Washington.

So this dossier was created. It was manufactured out of whole cloth. There’s nothing in it that’s true, and everybody involved in it knows this, even the media that’s lying about whether or not it’s accurate. It was created to show to Trump, and it was presented to him as, “By the way, Mr. President, none of this is true. But this is an example of the kind of stuff that we dig up. This is an example of the kind of stuff you could expect to see, and this is what we would like to prepare you for as often as it happens. This is why we need to meet with you every day.”

So that was the pretext for briefing Trump on January 6th, but I think the use of this dossier to brief Trump… I think they were lying. I don’t think that the purpose for showing it to Trump was to show him what’s possible out there. I think it’s much more devious than that. I think the dossier is manufactured — it’s pure, unadulterated lies — but they’re salacious enough that American gospel people would love it, like TMZ and the Drive-By Media. All that matters then, is if the intelligence community shows it to Trump, that makes it news.

Whether it’s accurate or not is irrelevant. All the IC (intelligence communities) have to do is tell the media, “We showed this to the president.” Bam! It becomes news. Whether it’s true or not is irrelevant. It’s news. “President Trump today was shown a dossier, intelligence sources tell the New York Times, and in the dossier, he is accused of hiring prostitutes…” And that got the ball rolling. And my theory is, that’s why it was done, that everybody involved here knew this thing was bogus, that nobody was fooled by anything.

That they used this as a pretext, in essence, to begin media coverage of this so that the media coverage would understandably be critical of Trump and raise questions about his morality and his behavior and so forth. I think it’s BS that they wanted to explain to Trump the difference between fake intelligence and real intelligence. I don’t believe they wanted to give him a heads-up at all. I think all of that is total BS. I think all they wanted to do was show it to him, and that makes the dossier come to life, because that then makes a news story.

“Intelligence community officials today shared with President Trump the details of a recently discovered document which purports to have the president hiring prostitutes to urinate on beds in Moscow.” Blah blah blah blah. The story is born, and it goes and goes. But it’s so bad and so fake, the Drive-Bys don’t report it. So the intel community makes a deal with BuzzFeed, and they run it uncorroborated, and, bammo! It’s now in the public domain.

The fact that the intelligence community showed it to Trump gave the media the cover they needed to report it. Nobody could say the media was making it up, nobody could say the media wrote it. “Hey, we’re just standing by here watching what happens, and we learned that the IC showed this to Trump.” Bammno! It makes it a new stories. And then after that, Comey and Brennan can come along and say, “Well, we take it very seriously.

“We suspected that it was about to appear in the media. We heard that media had been told about it. We needed get out in front of it, and we needed to brief Trump on it,” and bammo! You have the total, phony, fake birth of a news story that was planned from the get-go. From the writing of the memo to the planned usage of it, to how they were gonna get it in the public domain, the whole thing has been a hoax in which Brennan and Comey willingly participated, with the media and with intelligence community.

All of it rotates around the center nucleus that is the coup, the silent coup to get rid of Trump.

This explanation was given by Rush Limbaugh and I certainly know you will slander his explanation of the event; but if you were truly interested in knowing the truth, you would do your own investigation. Why should I accept your link to Buzzfeed as truth and not also look at Rush’s?

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 9:06 AM
Comment #418073

I referred to your comments as sick and perverted simply because of the joy you receive by quoting something so vile, and trying to act as if it’s an established fact. It’s not fact; it was a hypothetical that the press knew about and never reported because they knew it was false. When Buzzfeed picked it up, only because it was reported to the President and became news, then everyone else picked up the talking point. Hence, Trump comes out with the term “Fake News”, because everyone involved knew it was fake. Now if we really want to expand the story, we can tie the Russian lawyer who met with Donald Jr. into meetings with the Obama and Clinton people just days after meeting with Don Jr. Since the Trumps are not politicians, it’s easy to see how they could be sucked into a sting operation, meant to entrap them. Now this becomes a big story to your side, but it means nothing to Trump supporters, because Trump supporters understand the corruption of DC. So your side has taken a false premise and created months of turmoil.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 9:21 AM
Comment #418078

So, Blaine, you accuse liberals of having no sense of humor, and when I point out virtually every humorist is a liberal and the appetite of audiences is for those liberals entertainers… You complain about conservatives being the butt of the jokes.

That did not go well for you.

Trump is in France. He has a 14% approval rating there. That’s right. 14%. This should be interesting. On the bright side, he has nowhere to go but up, right?

A general observation for conservatives-

You are in control of government- The White House, the Senate, the House, even the Supreme Court. That means you should be governing and enacting… well… something. Instead, you chiefly seem to be interested in attacking Obama and Hillary Clinton. You control the DOJ, so even if there is nothing there, you could always gin up another phony scandal. That will never get anything done other than indulge your hatred and concentrate your attention on looking backwards. It will not make anything Trump is doing with Russia look any better.

There is one other problem with all those attacks. Obama was a popular president. He finished with one of the highest approval ratings in modern history. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes. So if the focus of conservative government is attacking them, it virtually guarantees Trump and the GOP will never obtain approval ratings of more than 40%, and that makes it difficult to pass an agenda without facing massive opposition from the majority of Americans.

Your choice.

Posted by: phx8 at July 13, 2017 11:32 AM
Comment #418079

Sometimes conservative Republicans have a sense of humor- if humor is the word for it:

“Republicans had seven years not just to come up with a policy alternative to Obamacare, but even more damning, they had seven years to plan the public relations and communications plan for its repeal.

It’s pretty obvious by now that neither plan was ever in place, an act of political malpractice that makes me conclude that my party is missing some of the core competencies. Instead of having a plan, the House gurgled and groaned and then vomited out a bill so odiously unpopular and politically poisonous that even Donald Trump bashed it as “mean.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/mitch-mcconnells-summer-of-discontent?source=twitter&via=desktop

Wilson goes on to note the Senate plan received a 12% approval rating, putting it on a par with the popularity of child predators.

Posted by: phx8 at July 13, 2017 12:07 PM
Comment #418080
the definition of a troll is someone who post inflammatory and false material.

Blaine tells us in the previous thread-
“j2t2, you are a lunatic. “

and,
” The left exhibits pseudo outrage when you accuse them of being anti-constitutional, they exhibit outrage when they are called anti-police; but isn’t it so? They have no use for the constitution, the police, the military, or anything else that supports a lawful society. The left hates everything this nation was founded upon. The left is represented by the protesters in America as well as Munich. Spoiled little rich kids that never had to work, or spoiled dregs on society who never had to produce anything. Law breakers.”

Just a couple of examples Blaine…inflammatory and false….should I go on?

Now onto the Trump thing. You babble on Blaine but you refuse to answer the question I posed, why are you holding the liberals to much higher standards than you hold Trump and conservatives to?

Trump told us many times before the election this past November about collusion between Kasich, Cruz, Clinton, and lord knows who else many times, with zero proof. Yet you give him a free pass. All the time you give Trump a free pass no matter what lie he repeats.

Yet when you think others do the same thing you all of a sudden have a extremely high standard. Only the original dossier not the one from Buzzfeed will do. Yet what proof did Trump provide on the Cruz link to the Kennedy assassination? To the claims of collusion by Kasich, Cruz and Clinton?

Posted by: j2t2 at July 13, 2017 12:12 PM
Comment #418081

Ph, I have no problem with what Trump has accomplished. By nominating a conservative to the SC, Gorsuch, he has done more than Obama did in 8 years. I consider Gorsuch to be one of the most important presidential nominations in this century. Add to that Trumps opportunity to at least one more and maybe 3 more justices. The goal is to block 25% of the American people (liberals) from setting the rules for the other 75%. He has done it.

It doesn’t matter how many votes Hillary got…she lost and Trump won. You lost the senate and you lost the house; which gives the republicans the agenda. For every day your side spends on the Trump/Russian story, Trump is continuing to get things done. I know, and Trump supporters know, but your side doesn’t know because your spending all you time listening to fake news.

J2, nothing I said qualifies as troll material because it’s true, all of it. Why are you still hung up on the Republican primary? Who cares what Trump said about anyone he was running against. I don’t care, Trump supporters don’t care, most of the other candidates don’t care, so why should you? If any of the others had won the election, you would have attacked them the same way you do Trump. That’s the nature of a liberal, to personally attack the opposition. You lost, you lost, you lost, and no one cares what you think. Let me make a suggestion, crawl back under that rock and wait 7 1/2 years and maybe, if you can change the Democratic platform, you might be able to provide a competitor.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 12:44 PM
Comment #418082

j2, phx8 and Warped, I hope you do stay on the Russian thing because it will show the American people your side has NOTHING but that. Even those 2 DUMBA** Congersmen who filed impeachment proceedings show all that the Democrats have is NOTHING and they are trying anything to stay relevant. The more and more we see this Russian thing play out especially for Trump jr. the more we see democrat fingerprints all over it. The HYPOCRACY of the left is comical when they claim all sorts of crimes for Trump when their campaign did exactly the same if not worse. Before democrats make accusations I think they need to clean up their own house.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 1:18 PM
Comment #418083
nothing I said qualifies as troll material because it’s true, all of it.

Blaine, you wouldn’t know truth if it came up and bit you on the a**. Your vague generalizations are nothing more than conservative trolling points. You can’t back them up with anything factual other than propaganda from the far right.

You are the reason the country is divided. You and your fellow conservatives believe exactly what the establishment wants you to believe, even to the point of believing Trump is anti-establishment.

Why are you still hung up on the Republican primary? Who cares what Trump said about anyone he was running against. I don’t care, Trump supporters don’t care, most of the other candidates don’t care, so why should you?

Zeig Heil Blaine spoken like a true movement follower. Of course I’m not hung up on the primary, I wonder why you allow Trump and conservatives such a low standard when it comes to truth, integrity and facts yet hold me to such a higher standard. You seem unable to answer that question using diversion and strawman arguments instead.

That’s the nature of a liberal, to personally attack the opposition.

Says Blaine as he personally attacks the opposition and has for years. You still bring Clinton into the conversation Blaine so perhaps when you say you don’t care you really are hiding, afraid to be honest.

You lost, you lost, you lost, and no one cares what you think.

America lost Blaine.When Oligarchies interfere in elections of democratically elected republics we have all lost. We all slide closer into the 3 world nation/second rate power abyss. As I have said several times here on WB I want Trump to stay in office his full term. I want the repubs in Congress to pass the conservative agenda into law and have Trump sign them. I want the people of this country to feel the weight of their electoral college decision.It is the best way to get the country over this hurdle and onward into the future. Either the agenda will succeed or it will fail and we can move on from the myths misinformation and outright lies that make up the conservative agenda.

Let me make a suggestion, crawl back under that rock and wait 7 1/2 years and maybe, if you can change the Democratic platform, you might be able to provide a competitor.

Suggest what you want troll, but on the 7 1/2 years thing put your money where your mouth is. Trump won’t make it to a second term it will be the worst defeat of a sitting president in our history if he even tries to run a second time.

The goal is to block 25% of the American people (liberals) from setting the rules for the other 75%. He has done it.

So let me get this bit of conservative logic straight Blaine. Despite losing the popular vote Trump represents 75% of Americans! Despite this lie yes unfortunately Trump may get a chance for a uber conservative politically active SCOTUS , worse than the one we now have. But make no mistake it won’t represent 75% of the American people. It will represent the top 1% as it has done in many recent decisions. And you still think Trump his followers and you are the anti-establishment.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 13, 2017 2:03 PM
Comment #418084

KAP,

It doesn’t matter what Democrats did or did not do. Justice in this country is carried out objectively along absolute terms, not relative ones. I trust Robert Mueller to weigh all the evidence carefully and come to the correct conclusion, whether that means indicting and prosecuting Trump administration officials or not. Do you?

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 13, 2017 2:14 PM
Comment #418085

Warped, I want justice but I want it done in a fair way. We know both sides did things that may have been unethical but not against the law. But if both sides did do something against the law then I want justice applied fairly no matter if it is Trump or Hillary.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at July 13, 2017 2:36 PM
Comment #418086

Warped, also I think Mueller should be looking at both sides on this Russian fiasco.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at July 13, 2017 2:39 PM
Comment #418089
Warped, I want justice but I want it done in a fair way. We know both sides did things that may have been unethical but not against the law. But if both sides did do something against the law then I want justice applied fairly no matter if it is Trump or Hillary.

My prognostication, as amateurish as it may be, is that Democrats’ misdeeds, if any, will pale in comparison to whatever comes out of Trumpland. Nonetheless, if Mueller discovers otherwise, then so be it. I want justice to be fair and not dealt out unequally on the basis of party affiliation.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 13, 2017 5:04 PM
Comment #418090

Shortly after the meeting between Trump Jr., Manafort, Kushner, and the Russian lawyer, Trump said: “I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons. I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.” Trump was in the building at the time of the meeting.

RF,
Tired of Hee-Haw reruns?

Posted by: phx8 at July 13, 2017 5:05 PM
Comment #418091

Word is that Mueller has hired a lawyer who worked on the Hillary email case. That could be a good sign. Hoping he will do the right thing.

If Mueller doesn’t look at Hillary then the DOJ/Trump admin has to do it.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at July 13, 2017 5:06 PM
Comment #418092

Warped, Your partisan bias is showing.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #418093

phx8, Trump may have been in the building but probably in a different part of it. Does that mean he knows what his son is doing? Like I keep telling you get out of the grocery store tabloids.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 5:17 PM
Comment #418097

KAP,
Trump was one floor above where the meeting took place. His top three campaign people attended that meeting. It would be remarkable if they did not inform Trump of the results. And that night, Trump claimed he was about to release something about the Clintons. Remember, at this point, the Russian hacks had already taken place, but nothing had been released. That happened shortly after the meeting.

Posted by: phx8 at July 13, 2017 5:24 PM
Comment #418099
Your partisan bias is showing.

Only time will tell whether I am right or I am wrong. If Mueller finishes this investigation without discovering greater misdeeds on the part of the Trump administration, then you can call me a hack if you wish. But until then, I suggest you judge my words for what they are and not by the hand that wrote them.

Every alleged “scandal” against Democrats has already received extensive scrutiny and investigation. It has been a year since James Comey concluded the matter regarding Clinton’s email server with zero indictments. Multiple times, he has explained that there was no evidence of hostile intent of any sort.

Given the mountain load of leads to be explored regarding Trump, I do not think Mueller will have much spare time to investigate nothingburgers involving Democrats, but if he should uncover something interesting, I trust that he will pursue it.

The litany of false statements on SF-86 forms from Trump administration officials ought to worry you at least a little bit. Innocent people may accidentally forget a minor detail or two, but the frequency at which Trump’s officials conveniently experience collective amnesia is absolutely remarkable. I expect these will become the basis of proving hostile intent on the part of Manafort, Kushner, Trump Jr, Sessions and others.

Mueller will continue doing what he does for at least another 12 months. Who knows what he might discover?

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 13, 2017 5:39 PM
Comment #418104

Royal, If Warped did what Hillary did he would be joining the Sailor that took pictures of the interior of a sub. I held a Secret Clearance because I had to sometimes go into the Nuc. storage to do repairs on the USS America CV 66. Hostile intent is not needed, just ask that sub sailor.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 6:31 PM
Comment #418105

phx8, Trump was 1 floor above. Does he have X Ray vision or super hearing? If those 3 got nothing from the meeting why would they tell Trump Sr.? Kushner left after 5 min, Manafort played with his phone and left in 10 min. Trump Jr. ended it after 20 min with nothing. I keep telling you stay away from the grocery store tabloids.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 6:36 PM
Comment #418106

Warped, Comey was a partisan hack IMO. What Hillary did she should be wearing an Orange Jump suit with DOC on the back. It could be that Mueller is looking into both campaigns, with the Hillary Ukraine fiasco and the Russian thing with Trump. Now we have the Russian Lawyer who wasn’t supposed to be here but was permitted to be here by the Obama Justice Dept. So yes Mueller has a lot of work to do.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 6:43 PM
Comment #418108

You know Royal, words matter. And there is no one better than the libs at using words. Warped uses the words “hostile intent”, meaning there was no crime committed. He loves to say Comey found crime committed, but Comey actually said he found no criminal intent. So based upon Comey’s remarks, he completely disqualified himself and the results of his investigation by failing to understand the law.

J2 completely ignores the word “alleged”, and then goes on to build a case for impeachment. But they are in good company because Tim Cain makes the same argument and calls for Trump to be executed.

This is hilarious, the left is in complete meltdown. Nancy Pelosi has called Donald Trump… President Bush 5 times in the last couple of months. Not even catching what she’s saying. I think she’s losing her mind.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 6:54 PM
Comment #418109
Hostile intent is not needed, just ask that sub sailor.

We’ve discussed this before. Our justice system determined that Saucier demonstrated criminal intent. The comparison is baseless.

We shall wait and see what happens with Trump’s associates. Generally speaking, lying on an SF-86 is evidence of hostile intent and we’ve seen plenty of that already.

Royal Flush,

Please grow up and apologize. Calling people names is beneath your dignity.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 13, 2017 7:10 PM
Comment #418111

To j2, I am proud of Trump and proudly say I voted and support him. I have no problem with anything he has done. Regarding Obama, I was embarrassed of his presidency. He didn’t like America and proudly showed his disdain for white, Christian Americans. Regarding your Nazi comments, we know exactly why you use them; so don’t try to insult our intelligence by trying to defend you comments.

Ph believes Trump knows everything going on in the WH, but I’m sure he believed Obama the numerous occasions when he said the first he had heard of such and such was when he saw it on tv. Trumps a liar, but Obama is the figure of truth and virtue.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 7:13 PM
Comment #418114

One last thought, could someone tell me what the media led democrats are going to do when nothing comes of Trump or his administration? They have pumped up their followers and when nothing is found, the little heads of mush will just explode. What will Warped, j2t2, or phx8 do when nothing is found? Will they deny the investigation; will they say “it’s another republican conspiracy”? Or in using Hillary’s words “a cast right wing conspiracy”?

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 7:26 PM
Comment #418121

“>/www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 13, 2017 8:45 PM
Comment #418123

In today’s Herald, Michael Graham writes:

Remember the NBC show “To Catch A Predator”?

The format: Some sleazebag emails his way into the home of someone he believes is an underage potential $ex partner, and as he sits in the dark with his undies around his ankles, suddenly the door bursts open and in storms host Chris Hansen and a camera crew, catching the perv in his naked shame. Remember?

Well, that’s what just happened to Donald Trump Jr.

No, Junior didn’t actually get any Russian intel on Hillary Clinton (as far as we know). Nor did he consummate the act of collusion (ditto). But Lil’ Donald was hot for a Russian hookup and didn’t care if Vladimir Putin was the one pimping it out. And because he’s so smart, Junior said as much in an email.

Chris Hansen, that’s your cue …

Now, how do you take this humiliating moment and make it worse?

Imagine a crowd outside the would-be crime scene shouting “We’re with the perp! He didn’t technically break the law!”

They, my Trump-defending friends, would be you.

Michael Graham seems to have scooped my comment (just kidding, it is surely a coincidence). “Conservatives” defending Trump really need to look in the mirror and decide whether they actually stand for any principles or do they just revel in the schadenfreude of the Left?

But unlike “To Catch A Predator,” Junior’s email trap wasn’t set by the press. Those emails aren’t a “fake but accurate” Dan Rather special. This is Team Trump showing you its true character yet again.

So why are you defending them? Why are you selling out your own credibility by claiming Trump is something other than the bumbling, corrupt, uninformed, self-absorbed, thin-skinned bully he has been every minute of every day since he came down the Trump Tower escalator two years ago?

Telling the truth about Trump isn’t defending the Democrats. It’s defending you.

Your reputation. Your ability to advocate for the ideas you believe in — because you still have the standing to make your case.

It may be that honesty and dignity and true patriotism (aka “refusing to help Russia undermine our democracy”) will never matter again in American politics. Maybe the Trumpies are right: “We’re all Clintons now. It’s the only way to win.”

But if they’re right … have we really won?

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 13, 2017 9:14 PM
Comment #418125

jared kushner, owner of 666 Fifth avenue, which he bought just before the real estate bubble burst, tried to get $500 million out of a Qatari businessman, sheikh Hamad bin Abdullah Al-Thani, and much more from Jhina. When this fell through, Qatar was placed under sanctions by some of its neighbors, with the support of kushner’s father-in-law, and against the advice and wishes of the Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson.

They’ve already surpassed Watergate and Teapot Dome, I hope they’re not going to try to surpass Black Friday September 24, 1869.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 13, 2017 10:01 PM
Comment #418126

It used to be policy on WB to provide links for information posted. Is that no longer the policy? Without links to prove what you say, you just end up with a lot of baseless allegations, like the previous paragraph #418125.

Posted by: Blaine at July 13, 2017 10:29 PM
Comment #418127

oraoghilie, Why is it I can not find info on the Kushner 666 thing on a reputable news source? Not MSNBC, CBS, CNN, NBC, ABC, but I do find it on news sources comparable to the National Enquirer a grocery store tabloid.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 13, 2017 10:33 PM
Comment #418128
Peter W. Smith, GOP operative who sought Clinton’s emails from Russian hackers, committed suicide, records show
from


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 13, 2017 10:48 PM
Comment #418132

Here you go KAP,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/jared-kushner-qatar-loan-trump-saudi-arabia-hard-line-a7834536.html

J2 completely ignores the word “alleged”, and then goes on to build a case for impeachment.

Blaine and Royal why on earth would you think I ignored the word alleged? I thought it was an accurate description and placed in a prominent position so all of us could see it. The linked articles both made it clear the information wasn’t corroborated. Which as we know is much more than any of the conservative media outlets ever did with Obama or Clinton. Yet you chumps bought into the propaganda of the CMO without hesitation.

Why do you guys do that. You set such high standards for liberals and the MSM and then lower them to rock bottom for conservative outlets and the Trumpster.

I’ve tried to get an answer out of Blaine but he doesn’t know why evidently. So how about you Royal why do you cut Trump so much slack yet expect so much from the MSM?

Posted by: j2t2 at July 13, 2017 11:57 PM
Comment #418133

j2, that article was with the rest I saw that I called grocery store tabloids try again j2. Then I googled some reputable sources and found an earlier article from oraoghilie link that Kushner sold his shares in the building prior to his Father in law assuming the presidency I think it was a June 16th article about the same property. I’ve read the articles and if there was any wrong doing I’m sure it will come out. But until all the facts are out what you and the rest of the liberals think and say is hearsay.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 12:44 AM
Comment #418134

Correction it was a June 19th 2017 article.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 12:46 AM
Comment #418135

Nice try. He sold it to his own family trust.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 12:57 AM
Comment #418136

Nothing illegal about that oraoghilie.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 1:05 AM
Comment #418138

Well KAP, it sure is good to see you becoming so particular when it comes to news sources. Does this mean Fox, Breitbart, Newsmax are all off the table? I guess if the Independent is considered, what is the new conservative talking point oh yes, supermarket tabloids perhaps the Intercept will work for you.


https://theintercept.com/2017/07/10/jared-kushner-tried-and-failed-to-get-a-half-billion-dollar-bailout-from-qatar/

Posted by: j2t2 at July 14, 2017 2:38 AM
Comment #418142

J2, I have no problem answering your question, except it’s apples and oranges. I don’t trust the liberal media because their job is to report the news, not frame it. Some have said the MSM is an arm of the democrat party, but that’s not true. There is a liberal media, who has an agenda. There is no longer a Democratic Party, there’s simply a group of people doing the bidding of the liberal media. Everything the leaders and followers of the democrat party say and do is defined by the media.

On the other hand we have President Trump, who is hated by the liberal media. The difference between Trump and any other presidents since Ronald Reagan is that the media makes and breaks their presidency. The media did not make the Trump presidency and they are furious they cannot break it. I have been around for a lot of years and I’ve seen a lot of presidents, but I have never seen such a concerted effort to take down a president. It’s not being led by democrats; it’s being led by the liberal media and democrats either follow or they also become targets.

Trump is not a politician and he was elected because he’s not a politician. Do you realize he has never held a political office. He’s new in the private sector, creating jobs his whole life. He was the darling of the liberal media and the democrat party until he ran for president as a republican. Now, the media has made him the enemy, and the mindless lemmings in the democrat party believe him to be the enemy too.

He’s a good man, who loves America; he didn’t have to subject himself to this humiliation from the left. He had his billions, but he chose to give back to a country that gave so much opportunity to him. Your side has never given him a chance; the attacks began as soon as the media realized their polls were incorrect. I am more than willing to give Trump a lot of leeway and so do his supporters. But while your side continues to attack him, he is getting things done. Example, hundreds of VA employees fired for not doing their job. Was that in the news?

I will say one last thing and this will absolutely cause your brains to explode. The day before the November election, my neighbor asked my wife and I to attend a prayer vigil at their house. We went and there were dozens of people from our rural area who were there, some of which we didn’t even know. These prayer vigils took place all across America. The people that voted for Trump believed that it was imperative for God to intervene and get this country back on a track of morality. There is a photo going around on social media and live tv, showing about 25 pastors praying for president Trump in the Oval Office. It was not planned, it just happened, according to one on the Baptist pastors. I’m reminded of a verse in the Bible that says, “If God be for you, who can be against you”. I’m not worried about the president or the attacks, God raised up Trump and it will be God who brings him down, not the feeble attempts of men.

Posted by: Blaine at July 14, 2017 7:43 AM
Comment #418146

Interesting, but you know what, during Obama’s 8 years in the presidency, I’ve witnessed dozens and dozens of Christians, who in no way voted for Obama, pray for his leadership. Were they wrong to pray for him? No, because the Bible says Christians are to pray for their leaders.

Posted by: Blaine at July 14, 2017 10:45 AM
Comment #418147

The “christian” agenda, as explained by Noam Chomsky

1. limit democracy so wealth flows to the few.

2. shape ideology. opponents are bad-ists and isms, un or anti-american

3. redesign the economy so banksters rule, limit manufactures to make local consumption irrelevant.

4. shift the burden from plutocrats to precariat.

5. attack solidarity because caring for others is bad.

6. run the regulators, to bail out failed businesses,
one set of rules for the rich, another for the poor.

7. engineer elections, like “citizens united’.

8. keep the rabble in line, attack labor unions.

9. manufacture consent for control over the low information voters. (drumpf’s “outrage, headlines, attack again” strategy.

10. marginalize the population so angry and frustrated people urn on themselves.

///

What would Sidd do? What would Hodor say? What was Jimmy Carter doing when he collapsed from exhaustion/dehydration yesterday?

Happy Bastille Day! I couldn’t believe Macron didn’t cancel drumpf’s visit, after the reception of M’s Versailles speech. His elegy at Simone Weil’s funeral at The Pantheon was well received though.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 11:13 AM
Comment #418148

Rinat Akhmetshin has a colorful past as a Soviet intelligence agent and (alleged) computer hacker. Mueller will have a lot of fun following these leads. And before the Trumpkins wet their panties, no I am not drawing any conclusions until I read Mueller’s final report. I understand tenuous connections with the IMR hack do not prove a relationship with Fancy Bear or Cozy Bear. That said, things sure are getting smokey!

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 14, 2017 11:35 AM
Comment #418149

Apparently, it’s spelled Rinat Akhmetshin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinat_Akhmetshin

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-meeting-natalia-veselnitskaya-rinat-akhmetshin-2017-7

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 11:39 AM
Comment #418150
J2, I have no problem answering your question, except it’s apples and oranges.

So you do have a problem then Blaine. You didn’t answer the question you diverted with a nonsensical argument.

I don’t trust the liberal media because their job is to report the news, not frame it.

Yet you accept the conservative media and it’s framing of the news! Why so one sided?

Everything the leaders and followers of the democrat party say and do is defined by the media.

Even more so the conservative media has for years defined what the movement followers believe Blaine so why are you so one sided?

The difference between Trump and any other presidents since Ronald Reagan is that the media makes and breaks their presidency.

The media reports on what is done by the administration, the job of a free press, wouldn’t you agree? When the administration reacts by blaming the media for doing it’s job it shows us a lack of character IMHO.

I have been around for a lot of years and I’ve seen a lot of presidents, but I have never seen such a concerted effort to take down a president .

For being around so long you sure have conveniently forgotten the conservative media and the Clinton presidency as well as the Obama presidency. The conservative media made up lies, perpetrated myths and misinformation and framed the reporting for it’s conservative followers yet you missed all of that?

Your side has never given him a chance; the attacks began as soon as the media realized their polls were incorrect.

So Obama withholding the Russian info until after the election so as not to appear partisan didn’t happen? And didn’t Trump have the same chance Obama and Clinton got from the conservative media? The liberal media gave him so much free coverage during the primaries and during his campaign Blaine. More than Clinton I would suggest. Have you overlooked or chose to ignore this?

I am more than willing to give Trump a lot of leeway and so do his supporters.

Yes I know that is the problem Blaine. The same thing you accuse others of he does yet you vilify others and he gets a free ride. Why doesn’t he have to earn that like Obama or any other president did? He becomes the morality president with nothing more than a nod to the religious right… that shows some serious desperation from those folks IMHO.

I will say one last thing and this will absolutely cause your brains to explode.

Blaine really such dramatics so emotional for a conservative that holds us liberals to such a high standard, a much higher standard than you hold your side to.

The people that voted for Trump believed that it was imperative for God to intervene and get this country back on a track of morality.

Are these the same people that voted for him in the primaries Blaine? You see there was so many better choices for moral than Trump running. My God man using Trump and morality in a positive way in the same sentence may cause my brain to explode. Are you by chance a writer for the Onion?

I’m not worried about the president or the attacks, God raised up Trump and it will be God who brings him down, not the feeble attempts of men.

Are you sure it was God Blaine? You gotta give Trump credit for being able to fool so many decent Americans into believing this I must say. So the Trump presidency sets us back into the divine right of kings thing, before the Constitution that got us away from this type of governance. That explains a lot about the blind obedience towards Trump from movement followers.

But since we are quoting the bible let me ask you this. Have you stopped your praising of Trump long enough to consider the mark of the beast? I mean Kushner and the 666 5th Ave address should have some heads turning in conservative land…right? Wow God sent the guys from 5th Ave to save the morality of the country! Amazing Blaine amazing.

I would suggest you review Revelations 19:20 as you consider Trump and his administration.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 14, 2017 12:03 PM
Comment #418151

Thanks, WP, I noted from that article that Akhmetshin also worked for the fertilizer king, who bought an overpriced mansion that he never used, from drumpf, and followed drumpf around in his own private jet, on his campaign, to Charlotte, and someplace else that I’ve forgotten.

drumpf has apparently left France safely. I wonder if he sang along to La Marseillaise.

I hate this insecure website. I access it by a different method so that my banking information doesn’t end up hacked by russia.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 12:08 PM
Comment #418153

j2 Kushner being a Jew does not have a problem with that number seeing how the Jewish people are still waiting for the 1st coming of a savior. As far as the MSM including the ones you mentioned in #418138 I take with a grain of salt especially all this Russian stuff. I’ll wait for the investigations to be over.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 1:08 PM
Comment #418155

J2, it doesn’t matter what I say, it would never meet your approval.

Posted by: Blaine at July 14, 2017 1:18 PM
Comment #418158

SO KAP, I think you may have missed my point. I didn’t say Kushner had a problem with it. I was asking Blaine, who is Christian, if he had a problem with the mark of the beast and the anti-Christ warnings in the bible. I mean when you think about it Trump a silver spoon with a luxurious penthouse in prestigious Manhattan is a long way from a carpenter born in a barn. In fact Trump screwed the carpenter and contractors out of money while building his fortune. Hardly a WWJD moment IMHO.

The ability of Trump to get so many on the religious right to vote for him during the repub primaries when the field was crowded with seemingly better choices does cause one to wonder. Then in the campaign Trump’s total lack of integrity and moral character(how many cripples did Jesus ridicule?) causes yet further wonderment at how a person with deeply held religious beliefs could decide Trump is a man of God, sent by God to do his work, could buy into this line of reasoning.

IMHO those of the religious right are either evil or they got played. To think prayer groups were held to support the election, an electoral college miracle as it were, for a man who until he ran for office displayed no moral fiber at all. Do Godly men tell other men to “grab them by the pu**y” when talking about committing adultery?

Many on the right say they didn’t vote for Trump but have since become slavishly devoted to his every comment, he can do no wrong. If you remember back to the days of the Obama administration and the many “where there is smoke there is fire” comments from yourself and others on the right you may have noticed have morphed into “it’s all allegations” or “you have no proof” type comments, isn’t that strange? It is as if Trump waved a hand and all those religious right voters fell into a trance. A trance so deep they cannot see the lies(not to mention the alternative facts and fake news) on a daily basis for the first few months of his administration.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 14, 2017 1:56 PM
Comment #418159

j2, Reading many comments here at W.B and F.B. on Trump and the tiring stories from ALL of the news sources on Russia. Trump has his good points and bad points as has every president going all the way back to Washington. As I have stated on a few threads Russian meddling in elections is nothing new, we do it they do it. Talking to foreign entities is also nothing new but not declaring it is problematic. As far as religion goes it’s not my job to judge who a person votes for. The same questions could be asked of the left and their devotion to Obama and Hillary.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 2:31 PM
Comment #418162

“Russia is a nothing burger”

Van Jones

Also, some honesty from a CNN producer.

https://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=van+jones+russia+is+a+nothing+burger&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=994D0363B1C9BE000FBC994D0363B1C9BE000FBC&s_chn=prt_videoad-firstview-control1-p&v_t=comsearch

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 14, 2017 3:54 PM
Comment #418166

oraoghilie, My 1st choice in the Rep. primary was Kasich, 2nd would be Rubio. But I don’t vote for anyone of the presidential candidates in the primaries because of my independent status. I have my opinions you have yours which neither of us agree on, likewise for phx8 and j2. sometimes Warren I do agree with but that is far and few. My views are a limited federal government. Health care should be a State issue not a federal issue, I’m quite sure Hawaii’s health issues are far different then Alaska’s. Older people do not need the same things as younger. I believe Health insurance should be able to be sold across State lines and modeled to the insured’s needs not what government tells them they need. There are some liberal issues I agree on but those also are far and few. I believe government should stay out of our bedrooms, marriage should be a state issue not a federal one. There are many other issues that I can list.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 4:17 PM
Comment #418167

“There is no longer a Democratic Party, there’s simply a group of people doing the bidding of the liberal media. Everything the leaders and followers of the democrat party say and do is defined by the media.”

Well said Blaine. There is not much left of the Republican Party either. Many of our congressmen and senators run as Conservatives; then return to their true Left-wing/Socialist beliefs once elected to office.

Many elected Republicans hate President Trump for the same reasons the Left does. Trump wants to change Washington and make it responsive to the people. He wants to reduce the federal power and money that corrupts by returning much of it to the individual states.

“drumpf always prays while he’s watching fux upskirt news.”
Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 8:47 AM

Just another foul-mouthed, anti religious, America hating jerk comment.

“The corporate media is way behind many on the left, who knew exactly what was going on last year, when they were providing drumpf with billions in publicity without billing him for any of it because they felt the revenue from their other advertising was worth it.”

I won’t credit the quote as I wish to disrespect the author. May we see a show of hands? Anyone believe this claptrap?

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 14, 2017 4:29 PM
Comment #418172

I agree Royal, there are only a handful of republicans that can be trusted to fulfill their promises. That’s what makes Trump so popular, he is trying to do what he promised.

I don’t agree with some of the things Frank said, but it’s evident that got his info from the same web site as the left.

Posted by: Blaine at July 14, 2017 5:24 PM
Comment #418182
As I have stated on a few threads Russian meddling in elections is nothing new, we do it they do it.

KAP, it amazes me on the one hand Trump has commissioned a voter integrity commission using the guise of “every vote counts” and “millions of illegals are voting”. Of course you guys marching lockstep with Trump agree this is needed despite no evidence or factual information that millions of illegals actually voted.

On the other hand you guys don’t have a problem with the vote being “meddled with” or with candidates colluding with leaders of oligarchies to influence the electorate to chose the candidate best for the oligarchy.

Seems to me to be dishonesty on top of hypocrisy involved in conservative reasoning. As long as you win you don’t give a s**t about every vote counts. But then I guess that is conservative morality these days.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 14, 2017 8:07 PM
Comment #418184

j2, Meddling in elections has been going on for decades. Even Obama tried it in the Israeli elections. Yet all of a sudden now there is outrage. Why is that j2? Is it just because Trump won? Would the same outrage exist if any other GOP candidate became president?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 8:26 PM
Comment #418185

By the way j2 meddling in elections is wrong for us or them.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 8:29 PM
Comment #418190
j2, Meddling in elections has been going on for decades. Even Obama tried it in the Israeli elections. Yet all of a sudden now there is outrage.

KAP that is because you have no sense of scale, of proportion.The difference between what you think Obama did and what the Russians did are miles apart. As far as US interference in other countries elections by the CIA, yes it is wrong but 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Equating what the CIA did tears ago with what the Russians did this past year is denial KAP. Collusion with a presidential candidate and a foreign intelligence service is cause for outrage


Why is that j2? Is it just because Trump won?

Is there any standard of conduct you wouldn’t accept from a sitting president. Do you honestly think Russian intelligence did this just because Trump is such a good guy or did they do it for a payback down the road. Do you really want a president that has this hanging over his head running the country.

Would the same outrage exist if any other GOP candidate became president?

Yes but do you think another repub candidate would have stooped to this level to win the election, do you actually think none of that crew had any integrity at all. Look KAP I thought Trump was the best of that bunch but so far he has disappointed the people that won him the election.

So KAP I answered your question now answer mine.Is this lowered level of conservative morality alright with you?

Posted by: j2t2 at July 14, 2017 9:17 PM
Comment #418191

What drumpf’s fans don’t seem to understand is that Putin is getting impatient and wants to get paid whatever was promised. Russia is in terrible shape after so many years of being robbed by Putin and the other oligarchs, and he’s looking for a bailout. Since he’s not a capitalist, he doesn’t understand that drumpf is incapable of bailing him out of any situation. I guess he watched too many episodes of the structured reality show and got fooled like so many other stupid people. The funny thing is that we are actually better off with Putin staying in power until whenever he dies in a hail of gunfire. He keeps Russia weak. The country has incredible potential, but all they’re doing is robbing it just to prove that they can do what they want. He and drumpf are truly soulmates.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 9:32 PM
Comment #418192

j2, Like I said it is wrong for us or them to meddle in elections. A lowered level of conservative morality is NOT alright with me as is a lowered level of Liberal/progressive morality be to you. Scale has nothing to do with meddling in elections if you give our side a pass and get outraged if it is done to us. There should be outrage even if the name of the guy who did it was Obama. By the way Obama knew it was happening and did nothing, Why do you think that is j2? Why did he do nothing? I know Obama gave them a stern warning, in which Putin probably just laughed at.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 14, 2017 9:46 PM
Comment #418193

Tomorrow you’ll read that and change your name back to Speak4all.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 14, 2017 9:46 PM
Comment #418194

Interesting factoid: As of earlier this week, by this time in their presidency, Obama had filled 150 of the most important positions; Bush #43 filled @ 130; and Trump 43.

It has been an astounding week for the country and the Trump administration. They have no credibility left. None. They changed their stories again and again. Surrogates went out to defend them, and the Trumps cut them off at the knees. Priebus, Conway, Hannity, you name it, they went on the air and defended Trump Jr. They defended this meeting with the Russians.

On Tuesday, Trump Jr. declared “this is everything.” Trump praised his son for his “transparency.” Trump went further, declaring “most people would have taken that meeting.” The MSM had fun with that. They could not find a single politician who would have taken that meeting with a hostile foreign government seeking to undermine an election. Not one.

So today, it turns out Trump Jr. neglected to mention there were two other people at that meeting: a translator, and a Russian spy with a background in cyber warfare. Whoops! Oh yeah. Them too. Senator Grassley (R- IA) sent a letter to the Department of Homeland Security in April asking about the spy who “has been accused of acting as an unregistered foreign agent for Russian interests and apparently has ties to Russian intelligence.”

So! Does anyone- anyone at all- believe that meeting resulted in nothing? Trump Jr. has literally lied about everything else involving that meeting. Anyone think that last part is true? Did the meeting produce nothing?

Posted by: phx8 at July 14, 2017 10:17 PM
Comment #418196

Phx8. Before I come to any conclusions about what Trump Jr. did or didn’t do, but granted things don’t look good, I will wait for the investigations to be over and all the facts are out.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at July 14, 2017 10:48 PM
Comment #418197
So! Does anyone- anyone at all- believe that meeting resulted in nothing? Trump Jr. has literally lied about everything else involving that meeting. Anyone think that last part is true? Did the meeting produce nothing?

Posted by: phx8 at July 14, 2017 10:17 PM

Within hours or less it produced a new narrative about the emails drumpf thought that russia was going to be able to produce. When that didn’t happen, drumpf kept mentioning bleachbit later, even though he didn’t understood what he was talking about This was probably something he was told to mention for the benefit of the hackers to signal that WJC42 was using a linux operating system.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 14, 2017 10:56 PM
Comment #418199

Let’s all speculate until we come up with something that sounds effective. Then we can repeat it over and over. It’s kind of like talking yourself into doing something you don’t want to do. You keep thinking “I gotta do this”, “I gotta do this”. Then, when you’re so tired of having it in your head you finally do it.

That’s how you guys sound. You’re trying desperately to talk yourselves into believing this hogwash.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 15, 2017 12:07 PM
Comment #418201

KAP,
“I will wait for the investigations to be over and all the facts are out.”

That sounds reasonable, and eventually that day will come, but it is not a practical thing to do.

Some decisions are going to have to be made sooner rather than later. Trump, Kushner, Flynn, and others have been compromised by the Russians. When Kushner attended that meeting (which now includes an additional two, for a total of 8 attendees), knowing it was to consider dirt provided by the Russian government, he was compromised right then and there. That means Kushner can be blackmailed.

Of course, if the idea was to give up classified material, it is already too late. As National Security Advisor, Flynn had unlimited access. Kushner has had six months.

And don’t forget, Putin knows exactly what happened. Putin knows exactly who is compromised, and he can hold that over them.

Remember that G-20 meeting? When they came out of it Tillerson opened his summary with the big deliverable, the main achievement of the meeting. The US and Russia were going to cooperate on cyber security. Secretary of the Treasury Mnuchim immediately came out to the media to promote it. The idea was so preposterously bad it was immediately laughed out of existence, but nevertheless, Trump was serious when he proposed it. And that is the kind of proposal a person would make who has been compromised.

So like it or not, we are not in a position to wait for the final verdict after a trial. That might be fine from a legal perspective, but we are in trouble- all of us- right now.

Posted by: phx8 at July 15, 2017 1:40 PM
Comment #418202

You phx8 are not In
A position along with all the rest of the liberal/progressive. This same thing happened years ago with Hadathia where the loud mouthed Jack Murtha had those MArines guilty before the investigation was over and I think you remember what happened there. So I think I will NOT take your advice I will wait for the investigations to be over before passing judgement.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at July 15, 2017 1:57 PM
Comment #418203

What was in the folder, Speak4all? If the guy came to the meeting with the Russian woman he surely must know what was in the folder. If you know of the folder you must know what was in it.

Unless you’re just speculating on what was in the folder. It could be material pertaining to the adoptions she was talking about, right?

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 15, 2017 2:01 PM
Comment #418205

99.9% of what the left says is speculation. I could just imagine the little girl crying if we had made the same comments about the Hillary fiasco.

Posted by: Blaine at July 15, 2017 2:29 PM
Comment #418206

“It could be material pertaining to the adoptions she was talking about, right?”

Not exactly. If you will recall, Trump Jr. first said the meeting was about “adoptions.” He was lying. The release of the e-mail showed the meeting with the Russians was actually about giving the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary Clinton. In return, the Russians wanted relief from sanctions- specifically, the Magnitsky Act, which froze billions of oligarch assets. In retaliation for the Act, the Russians refused to let Americans adopt Russian children anymore. The Russians did not particularly care about adoptions. The lawyer representing the Russian government and the lobbyist/spy had a history of working to repeal the Act on behalf of the oligarchs and Putin because it involves a very large sum of money- they were not concerned about adoptions.

So no, it is implausible the folder was about adoptions. The Russians wanted something of value from the Trump campaign, and they were offering something of value in return. That is pretty much the definition of collusion, and it is a violation of the law, conspiracy to commit election fraud.

By the way, Rinat Akhmetshin, the lobbyist/spy, attended that meeting and talked about it. He said the folder the Russian lawyer gave to Kushner was dirt on Hillary Clinton.

“Akhmetshin has long been on the radar of U.S. intelligence. In a March letter to acting Deputy Attorney General Dana Boente, Senator Chuck Grassley characterized him as “a Russian immigrant to the U.S. who has admitted having been a ‘Soviet counterintelligence officer.’ … In fact, it has been reported that he worked for the G.R.U. and allegedly specializes in ‘active measures campaigns,’ i.e., subversive political influence operations often involving disinformation and propaganda.” Grassley identified Akhmetshin as a pro-Russian lobbyist working on behalf of Prevezon Holdings, which until recently was under investigation by the U.S. Justice Department over allegations that it had laundered $230 million stolen in a tax-fraud scheme… The Prevezon case was originally filed in 2013 by Preet Bharara, who was then the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. Prosecutors alleged that 11 Russian companies were involved in the tax scheme, which involved laundering a portion of the stolen $230 million through New York real estate. “As alleged, a Russian criminal enterprise sought to launder some of its billions in ill-gotten rubles through the purchase of pricey Manhattan real estate,” Bharara said of the case.

On March 11, Bharara was unexpectedly fired by Donald Trump. Several weeks later, Prevezon settled the lawsuit for $6 million, far short of the $230 million that had originally been sought, with no admission of wrongdoing. Veselnitskaya, who was representing the Russian companies in the case, reportedly told one Russian news outlet that she viewed the generous settlement as “an apology from the government,” according to Foreign Policy.

After news of Veselnitskaya’s meeting with Trump Jr., Kushner, and Manafort broke, a number of Democratic senators on the House Judiciary Committee wrote a letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions requesting information about the settlement. “We write with some concern that the two events may be connected—and that the Department may have settled the case at a loss for the United States in order to obscure the underlying facts,” the letter reads.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/donald-trump-jr-meeting-rinat-akhmetshin-natalia-veslenitskaya-russsia

Posted by: phx8 at July 15, 2017 2:51 PM
Comment #418209

There’s no such thing as a former russian intelligence officer, former means dead in that context.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 15, 2017 3:03 PM
Comment #418214
Scale has nothing to do with meddling in elections if you give our side a pass and get outraged if it is done to us. There should be outrage even if the name of the guy who did it was Obama.

KAP the conservative media exaggerated Obama’s involvement, as did Rubio, who made the accusation. But for grins lets assume Obama did send a guy over to help one side. Is sending a campaign expert on the same scale as hacking emails and attempting to get into the voting systems of states? Or colluding with the candidate and using the intelligence services of the country to drag up some dirt on the other candidate. I suggest scale matters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/26/rubios-claim-that-obama-sent-his-political-machine-to-israel-to-defeat-netanyahu/?utm_term=.185cb3477eb7


By the way Obama knew it was happening and did nothing, Why do you think that is j2? Why did he do nothing? I know Obama gave them a stern warning, in which Putin probably just laughed at.

It seems the Obama administration did more than you know about KAP-
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-06-23/report-obama-knew-russia-election-interference-hesitated-countermeasures

Posted by: j2t2 at July 15, 2017 4:30 PM
Comment #418215

J2, It seems that you didn’t read that pri story very well because it says Obama did nothing because he was afraid that he might be seen as manipulating the election which he thought Hillary had it in the Bag. SHOCKER to him she lost. j2, neither you nor I know what governments do during election cycles. We have the ability to hack into things just like the other guy so lets quit with the we’re innocent their guilty crap. It’s wrong for them just like it is for us.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 15, 2017 4:49 PM
Comment #418220

“I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week, and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons. I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.”
Donald Trump
June 7th
Shortly after the meeting between his son, son-in-law, campaign manager, a Russian lawyer, a translator, and a lobbyist/spy.

(Some reports state there were two additional people at the meeting- Goldstone (a cutout), and a family member of an oligarch.

This resembles that controversy when Trump gave the Florida AG a $25,000 campaign contribution and she dropped the Trump University lawsuit. At first, Trump denied he even knew her. Soon, pictures emerged of them together at a fund raiser he threw in her honor, and of them sitting together at a table. Trump lies all the time. It is only a free press and the investigative reporting of outlets like the NYT, WaPo, CNN, and others that reveals the lying, the depths of his moral depravity.

Posted by: phx8 at July 15, 2017 5:38 PM
Comment #418224

Warped, I haven’t liked what is going on in this country for a long time, probably longer then you have been a resident of it. I try by using the ballot box and as David Reemer and D.A.N. have said VOTE OUT INCUMBENTS. It used to be when you watched a news program or read a news paper you got NEWS now it’s more opinion, thank God for google, without it all we would have is opinion. Yes this country is divided and it is time to get it together. Yes we have differences on issues but we need to compromise something that went out the window a decade or 2 ago.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 15, 2017 5:49 PM
Comment #418230
Yes we have differences on issues but we need to compromise something that went out the window a decade or 2 ago.

Credit the conservative deity Reagan for that KAP. Yep up until he got rid of the fairness doctrine we were more civil as those we listened to were more civil and aired differing viewpoints more fairly.

Then came Limbaugh with “political entertainment” filled with his insulting myths misinformation half truths and outright lies. Of course now the field is crowded with “Limbaughs” and all of them use the same desultory language still filled with myths misinformation half truths and outright lies, meant to vilify the opposition, that exerts a powerful influence on their audiences and passed it off as entertainment.

So in turn over the years armed with the words of the “Limbaughs” more and more people became more and more certain they were better than those with different political views. They were brainwashed of course.(It was their entertainment after all.) Of course they weren’t better nor were their politics, politicians, and political parties but who could tell them any different when all they heard was the one sided propaganda of the “Limbaughs”.

Remember KAP a divided nation is what the oligarchy wants and the “Limbaughs” delivered it over the years. It worked, we are more divided and the Country is hurting because of it.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 15, 2017 7:07 PM
Comment #418231

j2, Democrats as well as republicans are to blame for the divide we have in this country. You can quit with the Democrat innocent Republicans guilty crap, both sides of the fence share in the divide we have.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 15, 2017 7:17 PM
Comment #418232

The Fairness Doctrine was strongly opposed by prominent conservatives like Reagan and libertarians who viewed it as an attack on First Amendment rights and property rights.

Democratic attempts to bring back the Fairness Doctrine have been made largely in response to the huge success of conservative talk radio.

My Pal on the Left is envious of the success of Conservative media and would like to return to the days of squelching free speech.

Can j2t2 argue successfully with facts that his political views are not sufficiently represented by media of all sorts?

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 15, 2017 7:21 PM
Comment #418235

The left tried to match Limbaugh, Hannity, and few other conservatives; but it was a complete failure. Nobody wanted to hear what they had to say.

There’s only so many ways they can call for gun confiscation, more government paid abortions, and more welfare programs.

Posted by: Blaine at July 15, 2017 9:06 PM
Comment #418240

WW,

On November 3, 2016 I wrote:

S4A, I think it would be best to apologize to KAP for saying he was “cleared to clean the head”. That was not an accurate portrayal of his claimed duties.
Posted by: Warren Porter at July 15, 2017 10:44 PM
Comment #418244
j2, Democrats as well as republicans are to blame for the divide we have in this country. You can quit with the Democrat innocent Republicans guilty crap, both sides of the fence share in the divide we have.

KAP yes in the sense that they returned fire after years of being shot at. You could also say technology is at fault as much or more than the dems, after all the dems tried to keep the Fairness Act going. So in order to mollify you yes the dems could be said to share some responsibility but in all fairness you need to understand the sense of proportion the sides should be responsible for, say 80/20.

My previous post described the facts, The fairness doctrine was put into law in 1949, and lasted through several SCOTUS rulings until Reagan abolished it. The personal attack part of the Fairness doctrine remained in effect until 2000 but it seems it had no teeth.

Democratic attempts to bring back the Fairness Doctrine have been made largely in response to the huge success of conservative talk radio.

Royal once again you lower the intelligence level of the conversation with your misguided allegations. In fact the latest talk about reviving the Fairness Act was exactly for the same reasons we were discussing here , the public discussion was at a higher level and more intelligent in those days. You seem to have proved it to be true with your prattle.

My Pal on the Left is envious of the success of Conservative media and would like to return to the days of squelching free speech.

Not envious Royal, sad. Had their success been due to real effort, real innovation then it would be deserved. Instead all we got from the Conservative media is propaganda, the lowest form of information, THe talk radio conservatives brought the intelligence level of the debsate down because they were not limited by truth or integrity. It was “entertainment”.
The “success” you speak of has divided the country. Your lowbrow bragging is symptomatic of bigger problems in this country. Many people of all political persuasions have long thought that our country would be destroyed from within. We have fallen victim to those that do not gain from a democratic republic. The manipulators that use people like you divide the country fopr personal gain.

This division we all see today is due in large part to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine whether you believe it or not. Hide behind “free speech” all you want but the truth is your version of “free speech” is tearing the country apart.

Can j2t2 argue successfully with facts that his political views are not sufficiently represented by media of all sorts?

Probably Royal. But is that really the issue here. Do you have any knowledge of people between 1949 and 1987 being denied their free speech rights due to the Fairness Doctrine or it corollaries? The reality of the situation is with the Fairness Doctrine in place the MSM was required by law to give the opposing view some consideration. The Visual Media was more balanced. People actually receives both sides of the issue from the TV set not the one sided propaganda we get from many outlets today.

When the Fairness Doctrine was in place the country wasn’t divided as we are today. Today you fall right into the hands of the money men who control our representatives in Congress. You allow yourself the “free speech” right to insult others, to vilify others and then brag about it. Congrats to you,

On the downside to your right to insult others the country is falling apart. You cause the division that tears at the fabric of our nation. Not through intelligent free speech but because you have been assimilated into the collective of your choice.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 16, 2017 12:08 AM
Comment #418248

So just in case we forgot the thread is about the Russian/Trump collusion. Now I know you guys won’t believe a liberal but how about a conservative”

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/media/charles-krauthammer-donald-trump-jr-collusion

Posted by: j2t2 at July 16, 2017 1:14 AM
Comment #418261

“This division we all see today is due in large part to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine whether you believe it or not. Hide behind “free speech” all you want but the truth is your version of “free speech” is tearing the country apart.”

Does anyone besides the author, j2t2, understand this paragraph? Can j2t2 explain how “free speech” should be used, or denied? Who decides?

Our college Lad should be able to explain how and why “free speech” is being denied to certain students on many campuses around the nation.

The division we see today in our country is most noticeable between the givers and takers. Nearly one half of our citizens now rely, in some part for their well being, upon the other half. A good share of our adult citizens have no skin in the game at all. They contribute nothing yet expect everything that the working person has. This is wrong, and leads to anarchy followed by tyranny.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 16, 2017 5:20 PM
Comment #418263

It would appear, from this Research Report by noted scientists, that the MMGW cartel have been doing some serious fudging to drum up fear among the uninformed.

On the Validity of NOAA, NASA and Hadley CRU Global Average Surface Temperature Data and The Validity of EPA’s CO 2 Endangerment Finding

“The conclusive findings of this research are that the three GAST data sets are not a valid representation of reality. In fact, the magnitude of their historical data adjustments, that removed their cyclical temperature patterns, are totally inconsistent with published and credible U.S. and other temperature data.

Thus, it is impossible to conclude from the three published GAST data sets that recent years
have been the warmest ever – despite current claims of record setting warming.”

https://thsresearch.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/ef-gast-data-research-report-062717.pdf

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 16, 2017 6:14 PM
Comment #418264

J2 believes everything was perfect in the world from 1949 until 1987; which was do the the fairness doctrine. But what j2 fails to explain is that the entire media of the country was controlled by what is known today as the MSM. The Democratic Party controlled the congress and the media. So exactly what was the purpose of the fairness doctrine, there was no opposing view. The democrats represented the working class and their platform was absolutely nothing like the platform of today. In the mid-80s along comes opposition to the democrats control of everything. Reagan (a conservative) and the introduction of conservative talk radio threw a wrench into everything. Then we have the introduction of Fox News. As the democrats began losing the working class and the southern Bible Belt democrats, they moved further to the left. The goal now became causing divisions in America into classes of people. We now have rich and poor, black and white, legals and illegals, and so on. But as the American people continued to move away from the democrat party (this is seen in the democrats continued loss of state and local seats), they chose to ramp up the social programs in order to developed a larger dependent class. They support illegals and amnesty because it creates a new class of voters. The division in America started when the left began to loose elections.

Everything the democrats do is designed to drive a wedge between the American people. The dangerous thing is they are more than willing to result to violence in order to try to gain control.

Posted by: Blaine at July 16, 2017 6:21 PM
Comment #418265

The dangerous thing is they are more than willing to result to violence in order to try to gain control.
Posted by: Blaine at July 16, 2017 6:21 PM

Right on the money Blaine. And, they wish to curtail free speech as demonstrated by j2t2’s comments.

The Left = Anarchy then tyranny.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 16, 2017 6:29 PM
Comment #418266

Royal, good article; but this is something that has been trying to surface for years. Each time a scientist or group of scientists try to expose the false data, the left results to the time tested attacks on their persons or qualifications.

Regarding the comments of WP against you. There was a time when Porter was young, with a desire to learn something that he did try to discuss and debate a subject. But he has changed. He is now a full blown leftist who believes he’s right and everyone who disagrees with him are stupid. Since he spent time in a liberal college and had his head filled with the mush of global warming, I can’t wait to hear his condemnation of your information and his continued defense of the indefensible GW.

He is wrong to base his defense of your right to not be insulted by a twisted mind, unless you apologize to him. Have we now come to the point that we have to suffer foul mouthed comments, simply because WP feelings were hurt?

Posted by: Blaine at July 16, 2017 6:51 PM
Comment #418267

Thanks for the comments on Warren Blaine.

Yes, there was a time when it appeared that he was open to discussion; rather than opposition. But, living in, and being daily exposed to “stinking” thinking by liberal academics, has perturbed the quality of his thinking and the moral underpinnings he at one time expressed.

I recall a time when humor was recognized as such, and not pounced upon as hate. I have long maintained that most of the Liberals I know are incapable of humor when discussing politics, race, ethnicity, gender or religion. So sad that such a valuable personal attribute has been lost to a generation of Lefties.

The base, crude, and outrageous public utterings by some, such as Stephen Colbert, are applauded by the Left. Meanwhile, a simple ethnic joke is condemned. One can call the president of the United States all manner of foul names, with no public reprisal or disgust; yet, the mere suggestion of the word Ni**er must be disguised to even print it.

Some say we must curtail free speech as it impinges on the right of others not to hear some things uttered in a public place.

We are no longer an enlighten population and are approaching another dark age.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 16, 2017 7:18 PM
Comment #418268

I said the exact same thing just last week, that the left has no sense of humor. It was either j2 or ph that became enraged that I would suggest they have no sense of humor. Comedy is now nothing more than vulgarities against conservative women and their children. Seinfeld made a comment last year to the same effect, that the left was no longer able to understand comedy.

Posted by: Blaine at July 16, 2017 7:33 PM
Comment #418271

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN1A10Q9

Secret Service spokesman Mason Brayman said the younger Trump was not under Secret Service protection at the time of the meeting, which included Trump’s son and two senior campaign officials.

“Donald Trump, Jr. was not a protectee of the USSS in June, 2016. Thus we would not have screened anyone he was meeting with at that time,” the statement said.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 16, 2017 9:20 PM
Comment #418273
He is wrong to base his defense of your right to not be insulted by a twisted mind, unless you apologize to him. Have we now come to the point that we have to suffer foul mouthed comments, simply because WP feelings were hurt?

Blaine, you say Royal Flush has a right not to be insulted by a twisted mined. Why not me?

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 16, 2017 11:40 PM
Comment #418279

“This division we all see today is due in large part to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine whether you believe it or not. Hide behind “free speech” all you want but the truth is your version of “free speech” is tearing the country apart.”

Does anyone besides the author, j2t2, understand this paragraph?

Let me break it down for you Royal. When I say ““This division we all see today is due in large part to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine whether you believe it or not.” I am letting you know the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine had consequences that benefited those that would prefer to see the country divided. You can shout the buzz words they taught you, “free speech”, to divert attention from the issue but you can’t come up with instances when free speech was denied whilst the Fairness Doctrine was in place. Today we have the same free speech rights as we had then only the discussion is much more vulgar and coarse.


Can j2t2 explain how “free speech” should be used, or denied? Who decides?

Sure Royal The Fairness Doctrine was constitutional in 1969 according to the SCOTUS. The issue was free air time to respond to personal attacks. Remember this was radio not newspapers. It was the rights of the listeners and viewers that were paramount, not licensed broadcasters. The SCOTUS decides these issue Royal surely they told you that.

Of course today with the internet and digital technology have changed things but just think for a minute if the “Limbaughs” had to give up some air time when they made personal attacks on people. Perhaps your limited reasoning ability cannot see the issue so let me explain it in another way. Just think if Steven Colbert had to give up some air time for personal attacks on you or the deity Reagan or Trump.

The division we see today in our country is most noticeable between the givers and takers.

Class warfare may be a problem Royal, but we were discussing the lack of civility in political discussions. How the “Limbaughs” have made us a more divided nation. How talk radio and the vilification of others has divided us. Are you suggesting your hatred for the working poor and the poor is the reason for the division we are discussing? Is it due to the continual propaganda you get from conservative media that causes this hatred?


Posted by: j2t2 at July 17, 2017 12:32 AM
Comment #418289

What would happen to a “Limbaugh” if the Fairness Doctrine was in effect and the “Limbaugh” decided he wasn’t going to provide an opposing point of view?

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 17, 2017 8:46 AM
Comment #418290

IMHO,Whomever their personal attack was on would get some air time so viewers and/or listeners would get to hear both sides of the story. So it seems conservatives would curl up on the floor in a fetal position and wail as their head exploded from hearing the opposing viewpoint.

Or of course the “Limbaughs” would tone down their personal attacks or find certain buzz words or means to insult others.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 17, 2017 9:11 AM
Comment #418291

Was that an answer to my question?

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 17, 2017 9:31 AM
Comment #418293
J2 believes everything was perfect in the world from 1949 until 1987; which was do the the fairness doctrine.

Blaine, really! either I missed this post where I said that or you are regurgitating a strawman argument. I have a novel idea for you why not actually respond to what I said?

But what j2 fails to explain is that the entire media of the country was controlled by what is known today as the MSM.

So what is your problem with the MSM, were your scenario true, being required to provide the opposing viewpoint or to provide on air responses to personal attacks?


The Democratic Party controlled the congress and the media. So exactly what was the purpose of the fairness doctrine, there was no opposing view.

So you have a problem with the dems for allowing the FCC to put the Fairness Doctrine into effect, which of course allowed the opposing viewpoint a chance to be heard! You make it sound like a bad thing.


Reagan (a conservative) and the introduction of conservative talk radio threw a wrench into everything. Then we have the introduction of Fox News.

Exactly my point, which for some reason you fail to understand Blaine. The conservatives got rid of the Fairness Doctrine, and the free speech rights of the viewer/listener choosing to let the corporate media dominate with myths misinformation half truths and outright lies.


The goal now became causing divisions in America into classes of people. We now have rich and poor, black and white, legals and illegals, and so on.

This was of course after the conservatives go rid of the Fairness Doctrine Blaine. Yet you blame the dems. I would ask you if you see how the squelching of free speech rights of the viewer/listener and the subsequent personal attacks by the “Limbaughs” over the years may have caused you to believe this nonsense?

Everything the democrats do is designed to drive a wedge between the American people.

So let me get this fine example of conservative logic straight Blaine. It is your belief that those who intentionally repealed the Fairness Doctrine are the victims here? It was the conservatives that allowed the media to present personal attacks as entertainment, to allow propagandist such as Faux News and the “Limbaughs” to suppress the voice of the listener/viewer. Yet you still blame the Dems!

The dangerous thing is they are more than willing to result to violence in order to try to gain control.

Yet another fine example of “conservative logic” Blaine. I would suggest the ignorance displayed is a result of to much of the “Limbaughs” hatred and vilification of others has taken it’s toll on your reasoning ability. It certainly has you blaming the opposition, minorities, the poor for the problems of this country. Tactics of Fascist and Dictators everywhere. Try to break this cycle of stupidity my friend. Stop listening to the hatred, the fear mongering that is conservative media and get a more balanced grip on reality.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 17, 2017 9:53 AM
Comment #418302

Highly recommend the sept issue of the new republic. Lots of interesting content.

Posted by: Oraoghalie at July 17, 2017 3:19 PM
Comment #418305

It’s Perrier time.

Posted by: Oraoghalie at July 17, 2017 4:20 PM
Comment #418315
You try instead to exaggerate what I have said,
Posted by: j2t2 at July 17, 2017 5:58 PM

Sounds like Bill O’Reilly’s technique of trying to put words in peoples’ mouths and then attacking them for things they never even said.

The Sinclair Group will be bringing even worse garbage to the stations they’re buying all across the country.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 17, 2017 6:24 PM
Comment #418321

Are any of us getting anywhere in this conversation?

Why not enjoy a friction-less topic in the center column about the 11th amendment?

Does anyone know anything about the 11th amendment? Really? Tell us about it in the center column.


Posted by: Weary Willie at July 17, 2017 10:57 PM
Comment #418327

WW,

I’d love to discuss the 11th amendment once we clean Watchblog of the toxic vitriol that currently inhabits it. Why don’t you ask your buddy, Royal Flush to apologize for his insults and promise to never again disparage a fellow Watchblogger that way again? If you, KAP and Blaine can keep your side civil, I can do the same with mine.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 7:13 AM
Comment #418328

It looks like some posts have been deleted. I’ve been coming to this site for about 15 years or so. There was a more diverse group of people then, certainly a much larger group of people. The fact is that the people on the right who are still here are not capable of civil discourse. They do not want to read or learn anything. They come here thinking that they already know everything, but can’t tell the difference between sense and nonsense.

Time for the Stephanie Miller Show, WCPT in Chicago:

http://player.tritondigital.com/6111

Hastert is out of prison, and has been released to Chicago, lucky us.

I wonder if the police who shot this white woman in MN will be convicted of murder.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 9:07 AM
Comment #418329

Oreally

Doesn’t seem you’re capable civil discourse either. Left here with your panties in a wad after losing the election, only to show up with the usual personal insults. Want civil discussion, Try leading by example.

Posted by: dbs at July 18, 2017 10:52 AM
Comment #418330

dbs, thanks for the great example of the quality of your posts in this forum. I think 99% consisted of one line quotes from other posts followed by some right wing talking point requiring no thought, effort, or research at all.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 11:45 AM
Comment #418331

oraoghilie,

On occasion, I’ve had some interesting in-depth discussions with dbs. I assume his brevity has to do with his having other things occupying his time. He has never stooped so low to critique the messenger rather than the message. I’d lay off him for the moment. I do not know his feelings regarding Royal Flush’s abusive comments yet. Let us wait and see.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 12:23 PM
Comment #418332

RF won’t have access for several hours. Some of his comments have been deleted, and some of mine. I doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the content of the posts. It looks like all of his posts and yours from yesterday are gone, and half of mine. I don’t know who is doing that, or if it’s just something that happens when you get 200 posts in a forum.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 1:04 PM
Comment #418333

Warped, If I offended you or anyone else I apologize.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at July 18, 2017 1:33 PM
Comment #418335

KAP,

No need for you to apologize. We’ve sparred with each other many times and never have things gotten uncivil. Maybe once or twice, someone may’ve been a bit too rough, but that’s life. My goal is not to create a “safe space” here, but simply a place that cherishes intelligence and rational discussion rather than wordsmithery and insult creativity.

The question is: Are we going to tolerate people within our ranks who lack the intellect to write a cogent comment that can further our debate and discourse?

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 1:57 PM
Comment #418338

Warped, Looks like posts are getting deleted that were crude and didn’t add to the discussion. I don’t think we should tolerate anyone who is insulting or dosen’t add to the discussion. Originators of the post should at least monitor the situation when time allows. To many times people like Keeley write something then disappear. At least you and Stephen will chime in on the debate.

Posted by: Richard Kapitan at July 18, 2017 3:53 PM
Comment #418345

I don’t see any reason to believe anything has changed at all.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 5:11 PM
Comment #418350
I don’t think we should tolerate anyone who is insulting or dosen’t add to the discussion.

Precisely. Even though we may disagree, we must treat each other as human beings and not as piñatas to bash needlessly. I hope you and others will hold me to account to a higher level of civil discourse going forward. I pray that I will have the courage to apologize if I ever mistakenly cross the line in the future. Hopefully, others will too.

To many times people like Keeley write something then disappear.

I have no idea where the essays written by “Keeley”, “AllardK” or KeelanB come from. I once suspected they were plagerized from elsewhere, but I’ve never been able to verify it. Others have speculated that AIs write those columns, but I do not think current technology is capable of that yet. Those articles will remain a mystery. Most notably, they will continue to be unpoliced apart from intervention from Liz. Going forward, this might be the last refuge of WB’s sewer critters.


oraoghilie,

I am not as cynical as you. Let us see what happens. The next time I write on the Blue Column, I think I will be stricter when it comes to policing comments.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 5:51 PM
Comment #418353
I have no idea where the essays written by “Keeley”, “AllardK” or KeelanB come from. I once suspected they were plagerized from elsewhere, but I’ve never been able to verify it.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 5:51 PM

IKR, at one point I thought they were translations from another language, but other than russian propaganda sites, who would write such right wing stuff? Australian or British maybe? Stolen from Nigel Farage?

SD wrote an article in the blue column, and I’m already back to not reading any more right wing responses after reading the first one. Coincidence or coordination that liz and SD’s articles were 32 minutes apart?

Anyway, the game that I was playing on this dvd player has crashed again for the umpteenth time, so I’ll go back to using it for it’s original purpose. Ripper Street and Billions in the queue.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 6:06 PM
Comment #418363
Coincidence or coordination that liz and SD’s articles were 32 minutes apart

I haven’t read Stephen’s article yet, but I do not think there is a connection. Liz has been deleting comments since at least yesterday.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 7:11 PM
Comment #418366

I hope any deleted comments come with a reprimand and a reason they were deleted. To have no history of the offending comments and no reason noted for their deletion will simply allow the person to repeat the offending comments again.

I don’t want to see the deletion of comments or banning participants simply because the moderator of the post doesn’t like what is being said. We’ve gotten away from that, but sadly the immaturity in the comments lately has forced action. I hope it’s over with and we can return to policing ourselves.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 18, 2017 7:32 PM
Comment #418367

Not since the days of DRR, who would delete and then ban anyone who disagreed with him. I never had much use for him after he said his wife worked so he could stay home and troll.

Posted by: Blaine at July 18, 2017 7:41 PM
Comment #418369

Blaine, it is quite easy to insult anyone; and do it without complaint. All one needs do is preface the insult with “The comment by (name) is (insult).

This is the game Remer and others like to play. It is called “wimpification” by proxy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 18, 2017 7:54 PM
Comment #418370
I hope any deleted comments come with a reprimand and a reason they were deleted. To have no history of the offending comments and no reason noted for their deletion will simply allow the person to repeat the offending comments again.

Agreed. Transparency is a must. DRR began things that way, but towards the end there were many comments that disappeared without any explanation. Rules only matter if they are clear and enforced consistently. I cannot promise that my moderation will be perfect. I am a human full of bias, but I will try my best. Knowing my flaws, I want to be clear that I welcome well-constructed criticism of any action that I may take to police comments on my articles. I am not eager to censor anyone, but recent circumstances dictate otherwise.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 7:58 PM
Comment #418371

WP, I used to correspond with DRR (Rasputin to me) quite a bit by email, then my email account was hacked, and I stopped. The site was only about a thousand times better then, but still not secure. The middle column was much better, but it began to dwindle as people stayed more in their silos. I don’t understand why they keep this site open. There’s no advertising revenue. They have to be paying something to the hosting site. Liz said she was hoping to upgrade it somehow in the future, but security would be the most important thing for me.

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 18, 2017 8:17 PM
Comment #418372
All one needs do is preface the insult with “The comment by (name) is (insult).

RF,

Do you think Watchblog would be better if I enforced a rule against this sort of construction?

Personally, I do not think criticizing a comment is the same as criticizing a person. I have written my fair share of stupid comments here. If readers observe ignorance or a lack of critical thinking skills in my comments, I really don’t have an issue with them pointing that out.

What I am trying to do is prevent people from making lazy ad hominen arguments on the basis of the author’s lifestyle, homelife, educational status, profession, ethnicity or religion. So, people can’t attribute the flaws in an argument to (real or perceived) characteristics of the author.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 8:18 PM
Comment #418374

WP, so what your saying is that if a person’s Christian believes were attacked, that would be grounds for… shoot, why am I even asking. It’s already taken place to Royal and myself. It only counts if a liberal is insulted, right?

Posted by: Blaine at July 18, 2017 8:58 PM
Comment #418376
It’s already taken place to Royal and myself. It only counts if a liberal is insulted, right?

Are instances where someone has said “X’s argument is wrong because X is a Christian” (or something to that effect)? I think there is a distinction between criticizing the veracity of Christian beliefs and attacking someone for being a Christian, but I’d like to hear your thoughts.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 9:32 PM
Comment #418378

17 months ago, I asked why violence committed by Christians was being treated differently than violence comitted by Muslims and some took offense. I would like to learn why this might be seen as a personal attack when I never directed the comment at anyone in particular.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 9:57 PM
Comment #418379

Many of you called me a racist when I disagreed with your comment to censor some media figures. You said some should be fired and when I disagreed you called me a racist.

I mentioned a person’s religion and you guys called me an anti-Semite.

One thing our red haired friend’s comments have done is expose the left’s use of insults to deflect criticism away from the thought.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 18, 2017 10:44 PM
Comment #418382

How about ridiculing someone for their Christian beliefs, or insinuating their below par intelligence is based on the fact they are a Christian. WP, you don’t have to look far to see the anti-Christian comments from your side. If you want examples in this column, I think they were part of the comments that were deleted. There have even been comments made that asked the question, how could a Christian vote for Trump? As if being a Christian locks us in on a certain candidate. My question would be, how could a Christian vote for an abortion supporting baby killer?

Posted by: Blaine at July 18, 2017 11:04 PM
Comment #418383

I read your comments from 17 months ago and none of them made any sense. I would have to ask the same question Royal asked; do you even know what a Christian is?

Posted by: Blaine at July 18, 2017 11:16 PM
Comment #418386
The next time I write on the Blue Column, I think I will be stricter when it comes to policing comments. Posted by: Warren Porter at July 18, 2017 5:51 PM

Why not just write good articles and not allow comments at all for a while? There really aren’t very many people participating at this site any more. You could almost write their comments yourself. There is clearly a formula for some of them, perhaps because of limited access to the internet due to whatever…

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 19, 2017 1:13 AM
Comment #418402

Many thanks to Warren, Blaine, Weary and all who have commented on keeping WB civil.

Watchblog is a valuable tool for many to read the opinion of others and to express their own. I look forward each day to all the writers contributions.

A hearty thank you to those responsible for its existence and upkeep.

Posted by: Royal Flush at July 19, 2017 4:05 PM
Comment #418411

WatchBlog gives me an opportunity to say things I think need to be said. I’ve learned much more than I’ve taught here. I missed it when I was banned, found greater respect for it on my return. I tolerate rude and obnoxious because many of you suffered mine. It’s part of the game, and liz defined the rules again very well.

I think WatchBlog allowed me to define my boundries in real life. Saying it on WatchBlog and saying it at the company picnic are two different things. What can’t be said at the picnic can be said here and that’s why I cherish WatchBlog.

I also think WatchBlog effects change. I once had a discussion here and a few days later, I swear!, I watched 2 congress-critters on the CSPAN discussing the same topic, almost verbatim! I couldn’t believe it and I’m very proud of the results of that conversation.

I think many of the discussions are so long and tedious because no one will surrender. Both sides need to have the last word and the original thought is lost in the battle for the last word.

Warren Porter and j2t2 and I had a discussion that was fruitful and enlightening. I won’t tell you about it because if you don’t know what it was you’re not paying attention. The short part of the short discussion was an explanation of a subject that eluded me for a very long time. j2t2 pointed me in the right direction and Warren Porter put it into words that made sense. That couldn’t happen at the company picnic!

One unique thing about WatchBlog is we all have our corners we can go to. We all are as familiar with each other as real life friends can be. I feel that way. I don’t know if you all do, but I consider all of you as much my friend as anyone else I talk to every day.

To those who’s generosity is taxed by the financial burden and the moderation levied on you by WatchBlog, Thank You from the very sinew of my sanity. Thank you very much.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 19, 2017 6:03 PM
Comment #418427
How about ridiculing someone for their Christian beliefs, or insinuating their below par intelligence is based on the fact they are a Christian. WP, you don’t have to look far to see the anti-Christian comments from your side.

So tell me Blaine why would you even bring up your religious beliefs on a political site? IMHO when you do this you open the conversation up to your religious beliefs and it seems to me you are thin skinned about it. In this column you did just that and there was a couple of responses, mine included.

It started when you claimed Trump was raised up by God due to prayer meeting you and your neighbors held. SO if you don’t want perceived insults I suggest you keep religious beliefs out of the discussion. BTW I don’t think your below par intelligence is due to your religious beliefs.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2017 3:34 AM
Comment #418432

j2t2, what would you say if I told you if you don’t want to be insulted keep your political beliefs to yourself?

Why do you think expressing a religious belief is opening himself up to insults? I think that says more about your attitude toward religion than it does Blaine’s.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 20, 2017 7:57 AM
Comment #418433

j2, the conversation about conservative evangelicals nationwide holding prayer vigils is a matter of historical fact. So you say conservatives are not allowed to talk about their religious beliefs, yet the left is allowed to talk about abortion or global warming. Abortion and global warming is a religious belief on your side. Abortion because your side is obsessed with the killing of babies, and global warming because it is a belief that must be accepted by faith.

The quote of mine in your #418427 post was in answer to WP question to hear my thoughts in #418376.

How would it sound if I told you, you can reply to any comments, but your not allowed to include any of your personal thoughts on Russia. That’s what you are saying that Christians should do. Christianity is not something we do, our religious beliefs are intertwined with our being. If Christians believe so strongly in prayer that they would pray about everything in their life; how can we answer your questions of why we do a certain things without including the influence the God has on our decision making process? Your side understands this and you can’t help yourself when you make fun of or ridicule Christians for their beliefs.

I personally disagree with WB’s rules on the discussion of religion for the very reason I gave above. Our political decisions are based in part on our religious beliefs. But, it’s a fact that people ridicule and make light of that with they don’t understand.

Posted by: Blaine at July 20, 2017 8:49 AM
Comment #418436
How would it sound if I told you, you can reply to any comments, but your not allowed to include any of your personal thoughts on Russia.
j2t2, what would you say if I told you if you don’t want to be insulted keep your political beliefs to yourself?

So you guys do realize we are at a political blog site not a religious blog site…right?

Secondly stop twisting what I said around and then arguing that point. It is called illogical. False equivalence or strawman it is illogical.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

j2, the conversation about conservative evangelicals nationwide holding prayer vigils is a matter of historical fact.

So what?


The quote of mine in your #418427 post was in answer to WP question to hear my thoughts in #418376.

Yes I was referring to #418142 and #418150.

So you say conservatives are not allowed to talk about their religious beliefs, yet the left is allowed to talk about abortion or global warming.

First I didn’t say they are not allowed to talk about their religious beliefs Blaine. I asked why you would bring your religious belief up in a political conversation and not expect others to rebut your comment?


Abortion and global warming is a religious belief on your side.

No they aren’t Blaine. This hasty generalization that has been spouted so long by conservatives is a myth.

Abortion because your side is obsessed with the killing of babies, and global warming because it is a belief that must be accepted by faith.

Wow conservative logic, never fails to amaze me what people will believe. So Blaine you are trying to tell me abortion is a religious belief because “my side” is obsessed with the killing of babies. Seems to me you are the one obsessed with abortion.

You also claim MMGW is a religion, just like your religion, because it is a matter of faith, but you ignore the worldwide scientific community and the work they have done because a few scientist paid for by those that make their living creating the problem tell you it is so. Do you realize how foolish that comment is? You seem desperate to stereotype others, is that also a religious belief?

BTW since you consider abortion and MMGW to be a religion I have to ask why you would insult those people for their religious beliefs like you do? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?

That’s what you are saying that Christians should do. Christianity is not something we do, our religious beliefs are intertwined with our being.

No…. no it is not Blaine. Read what was written and respond to that. No one is suggesting you don’t make comments I am suggesting that when you do you should expect to hear a counter argument.

If Christians believe so strongly in prayer that they would pray about everything in their life; how can we answer your questions of why we do a certain things without including the influence the God has on our decision making process?

Once again when you get into the political blog sites and tell us your religious beliefs help shape your ideology, that is fine IMHO, but then expect others to counter that with arguments of their own.


Your side understands this and you can’t help yourself when you make fun of or ridicule Christians for their beliefs.

Well this hasty generalization is part of the problem IMHO Blaine. You see you expect no one to question you and them when they do you consider it an insult, so where did I insult you in my specific comment. Keep in mind this is a political blog site not a religious blog site.

I do realize some people, whether on my side or not, may ridicule your beliefs just as you would ridicule an Islamic belief. But your comment is another generalization that is part myth.

SO Blaine it seems to me you haven’t gave my comment#418150 any thought or at the least didn’t respond to my query regarding Trump.

Posted by: j2t2 at July 20, 2017 11:21 AM
Comment #418439

1 Corinthians 14:34-36 King James Bible

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

Posted by: oraoghilie at July 20, 2017 12:16 PM
Comment #418440

ph, I really would like to give you an answer to your Trump query, but it would be an absolute waste of time. I tried to explain to you the most basic reasons why our beliefs play such a big part in our decisions, and you aren’t capable of understanding. So why should I extend the discussion? Typical of your side is to take verses of the Bible completely out of context for the purpose of provoking an argument. It would be nice if you really wanted to know something, but you don’t. Just stick to what your side does best… personal attacks.

Posted by: Blaine at July 20, 2017 1:53 PM
Comment #418450

j2t2, you said insults.

SO if you don’t want perceived insults I suggest you keep religious beliefs out of the discussion.

That’s actually a horrendous comment.

Posted by: Weary Willie at July 20, 2017 6:43 PM
Comment #418462
I really would like to give you an answer to your Trump query, but it would be an absolute waste of time.

Blaine, in like a lion out like a lamb…

Posted by: j2t2 at July 21, 2017 9:54 AM
Comment #418530

Sorry that I wasn’t able to respond to some comments until now.

How about ridiculing someone for their Christian beliefs, or insinuating their below par intelligence is based on the fact they are a Christian. WP, you don’t have to look far to see the anti-Christian comments from your side. If you want examples in this column, I think they were part of the comments that were deleted.

Blaine, I will say categorically that stating that someone must be of low intelligence simply on the basis of their professed Christian beliefs will not be allowed. Ho

There have even been comments made that asked the question, how could a Christian vote for Trump? As if being a Christian locks us in on a certain candidate. My question would be, how could a Christian vote for an abortion supporting baby killer?

For some people, religion doesn’t play much of a role informing their voting behavior. I count myself in that category. For others, religion plays a major role in forming one’s ideology. I think you fall in the latter category. Because the premise of Watchblog is to scrutinize and debate each other’s worldview by necessity that means dissecting the ways by which religion shapes political beliefs. When it comes to the Bible, hypocrisy is common on both the Left and the Right with each side cherry picking the parts it likes and ignoring the rest. Exploring those hypocrisies is integral to Watchblog’s mission as a place for Americans to discuss news, politics and philosophy.

Why not just write good articles and not allow comments at all for a while?
oraoghilie, I do not know how to turn comments off, nor do I have any desire to learn. The best part of Watchblog is the opportunity for dialogue and conversation. If it was just a matter of me posting essays into a void, I’d probably post them somewhere else.
Many thanks to Warren, Blaine, Weary and all who have commented on keeping WB civil.

Watchblog is a valuable tool for many to read the opinion of others and to express their own. I look forward each day to all the writers contributions.

A hearty thank you to those responsible for its existence and upkeep.


Apology accepted. Thank you, Royal Flush. You are one of the better commenters here when you put your mind to it.
WatchBlog gives me an opportunity to say things I think need to be said. I’ve learned much more than I’ve taught here. I missed it when I was banned, found greater respect for it on my return. I tolerate rude and obnoxious because many of you suffered mine. It’s part of the game, and liz defined the rules again very well.

I think WatchBlog allowed me to define my boundries in real life. Saying it on WatchBlog and saying it at the company picnic are two different things. What can’t be said at the picnic can be said here and that’s why I cherish WatchBlog.

I also think WatchBlog effects change. I once had a discussion here and a few days later, I swear!, I watched 2 congress-critters on the CSPAN discussing the same topic, almost verbatim! I couldn’t believe it and I’m very proud of the results of that conversation.

I think many of the discussions are so long and tedious because no one will surrender. Both sides need to have the last word and the original thought is lost in the battle for the last word.

Warren Porter and j2t2 and I had a discussion that was fruitful and enlightening. I won’t tell you about it because if you don’t know what it was you’re not paying attention. The short part of the short discussion was an explanation of a subject that eluded me for a very long time. j2t2 pointed me in the right direction and Warren Porter put it into words that made sense. That couldn’t happen at the company picnic!

One unique thing about WatchBlog is we all have our corners we can go to. We all are as familiar with each other as real life friends can be. I feel that way. I don’t know if you all do, but I consider all of you as much my friend as anyone else I talk to every day.

To those who’s generosity is taxed by the financial burden and the moderation levied on you by WatchBlog, Thank You from the very sinew of my sanity. Thank you very much.

Weary Willie, thank you to you too!

I personally disagree with WB’s rules on the discussion of religion for the very reason I gave above. Our political decisions are based in part on our religious beliefs. But, it’s a fact that people ridicule and make light of that with they don’t understand.

Blaine, there is nothing in the rules prohibiting the discussion of religion. Indeed, I encourage people to discuss religion when it is relevant to the current topic. That said, I think it is fair game to critique one’s religious views if those views are hypocritical (for instance interpreting one part of the Torah as literally and inerrantly true but dismissing parts of the Torah as obsolete on the basis of something written in the Gospels or the writings of the apostles).

Likewise, remember that there is no rational foundation for religious belief. Religion is a matter of faith, which means accepting something to be true even though there is no evidence to support it. I say this as someone who is himself religious. I have no rational basis for believing in God, I merely accept his existence and build off of that premise. Due to this irrationality, there will be inherent tension whenever religion receives the same scientific scrutiny that people like to apply to other matters.

The irrationality of religion isn’t an indicator of stupidity among its adherents, so pointing this irrationality out should never be interpreted as an insult. But, it does mean that it may be easier to advance one’s ideas on this site if religion isn’t invoked.

Many of you called me a racist when I disagreed with your comment to censor some media figures. You said some should be fired and when I disagreed you called me a racist.

I mentioned a person’s religion and you guys called me an anti-Semite.

One thing our red haired friend’s comments have done is expose the left’s use of insults to deflect criticism away from the thought.


WW,
I try my best to never call a person racist because racism is never a binary status. There may be racist beliefs, ideas, and motives, but never is a person racist. I try to be judicious and treat every comment as charitably as I can. Only when the plausible deniability is miniscule, do I feel comfortable pointing out that a particular comment reflects racial prejudice. Unlike before, I will try to hold my bretheren to the same standard.

I believe you sometimes indulge in unserious racialized humor, attempting to spark a reaction. I am reminded of something Royal Flush wrote earlier:


I recall a time when humor was recognized as such, and not pounced upon as hate. I have long maintained that most of the Liberals I know are incapable of humor when discussing politics, race, ethnicity, gender or religion. So sad that such a valuable personal attribute has been lost to a generation of Lefties.

The base, crude, and outrageous public utterings by some, such as Stephen Colbert, are applauded by the Left. Meanwhile, a simple ethnic joke is condemned. One can call the president of the United States all manner of foul names, with no public reprisal or disgust; yet, the mere suggestion of the word Ni**er must be disguised to even print it.

One of the privileges of being a White Heterosexual Cisgender Christian Male is the ability to laugh at an ‘ethnic’ joke without an ounce of fear. Despite the decades-long march towards equality, White Heterosexual Cisgender Christian Males still control most of the levers of power in this country. This knowledge empowers individuals to laugh without fear.

Individuals from other groups do not have this privilege. Such people cannot be 100% certain if an ‘ethnic’ joke wasn’t meant to be taken seriously. Because of the history of discrimination and worse, these people can never be as thick skinned as you. Coming to terms with this fact is important if this country is to ever come together as one.

Posted by: Warren Porter at July 22, 2017 10:41 PM
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