For Muslim Activists, No Executive Order Is Appropriate

You are not allowed: to classify, to analyze, to assess, or to regulate. Anything that might have to do with majority-Muslim nations.

That’s essentially the position of activists who are already attacking President Trump’s new executive order, one that is an even more reasonable and constitutional order than it’s very reasonable - and constitutional - predecessor was. Don’t be fooled they´re already shouting. It deals with majority-Muslim nations and creates tropes and false narratives. As if a presidential order concerned with the security of the nation against terror attacks is, in fact, a post-modern literary text, sadly lacking in politically correct nuances and appropriate guilt laden apologies.

This would be a minor distraction if it were not for the 9th circuit's crazed progressive radicalism, and the fact that the new order will almost certainly be challenged in court. And as surely as the sun sets into the Pacific off the West Coast, the jurisdiction of choice to launch the forthcoming legal challenges will be somewhere between, and perhaps including, Seattle and San Diego. San Francisco 9th Circuit redux. All over again

Unfortunately, much of the intelligence and foreign policy establishment has a finely tuned ear for this sort of censorship. You must be ever so careful not to offend Islam or it's adherents; like a Saudi Prince, for example, or they might do something like help finance a dozen or so of their countrymen to carry out horrifying attacks on large buildings in NYC. And that's something the intel community has been hard at work avoiding ... right?

So you have the marriage of a failed status quo in the intel and foreign affairs community cowtowing to radical islamic identity politics that will not admit that al-Qaeda or ISIL members are indeed faithful Muslims with terrorist political aims that flow directly from their interpretation of the Quran. They may be evil and criminal. They surely are - especially to fellow Muslims. But they are undeniably Muslims and arguably self-identify as saviors of their faith.

And this marriage means that all anti-terror policies have to be rushed quickly and quietly past Identity Politics and Intel Status Quo checkpoints. In the media in America. In think tanks throughout the West. And in local Muslim populations around the world, quick to take offense at slights that are childish and trivial next to anti-Christian and anti-Semitic assaults that are the daily bread of our secular societies in the West. And accepted as such by Christian and Jewish communities, even as they debate and push back against the constant invective.

So bring on the lawsuits and let us hope that the 9th circuit is quick to come to one of its absurd rulings, so that the case(s) can be moved up the judicial ladder, to be settled wisely in the higher courts.

Posted by Keeley at March 7, 2017 11:00 PM
Comments
Comment #414251

Wow, so now obeying the US Constitution is now considered “identity politics”? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve every read. Does anyone seriously think civil rights activists would behave any differently if a President targeted Christians rather than Muslims for exclusion?

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 8, 2017 12:51 AM
Comment #414257
You are not allowed: to classify, to analyze, to assess, or to regulate. Anything that might have to do with majority-Muslim nations.

To which my response is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Our intelligence community is allowed to look into the radical jihadist activities of al-Qaeda and ISIS. They can classify, analyze, and assess to their heart’s content.

What our government is not allowed to do? Say “Because you are a Muslim, and so are the terrorists who attacked us, I will exclude you, refuse refugees from the most war-torn parts of your world.”

And no, the fact that it’s not explicit in the formulation of the law doesn’t matter. You registered your intent long ago. Intent of a law matters to constitutionality, especially if the effect is itself discriminatory.

You lecture us about the Constitution, but here it’s an inconvenience to you. Here, it gets in the way you creating an imaginary defense for this country by punishing the many Muslims of the world for the few who actually commit terrorist acts.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 8, 2017 11:28 AM
Comment #414258

Pretty dam accurate read of the situation, Keeley.

The only way to destroy the United States and its current form of government, is from within.

Posted by: kctim at March 8, 2017 1:16 PM
Comment #414260

kctim-
The Republicans are doing a fine job of that, let me tell you. Rhetoric is the engine on the train, and the brain is their caboose.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 8, 2017 2:28 PM
Comment #414263

Oh yeah, because we have never had strict immigration procedures before Trump, have we. Never tightened up our security for those wanting to come here from terrorist ridden countries. Never enforced our border security laws, those were just for show.
It all began with President Trump and those evil Republicans.

FFS Stephen, common sense immigration didn’t destroy the country in the past, and it sure as he11 isn’t going to today.

Posted by: kctim at March 8, 2017 3:30 PM
Comment #414264

kctim-
For one thing, the Refugee screening process was difficult and long to begin with. So, the question is, what prompted the need for it to get stricter. It wasn’t like we had too many security breaches with Refugees to justify it. And yes, we enforced the border laws, enforced them more harshly than ever before.

This is what I mean by rhetoric being the engine. It’s like the way a teenager argues. “You never let me do what I want!” They say, while you’re thinking “Do you know how many times I let you go out with your friends last week?” But of course, the Teenagers not being logical, they’re defining any lack of freedom as a complete lack of freedom.

You can talk about common sense, but sometimes people talk common sense when they don’t want to be bothered to demonstrate things factually, or when they don’t want to risk making an assertion that might be shown to be false later. Thing about rhetoric is, in the world of rhetoric, whatever you can convince people of is true. Beyond that, though, being convincing is not enough, you have to be right.

Trick is, rhetorically successful policy can be factually unsuccessful. Republicans can tell you tax cuts increase revenue, even convince you of this, but it can’t put money back in the treasury when the deficits start occurring. It’s time to hold the arrogant know-it-alls on the right accountable.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 8, 2017 3:59 PM
Comment #414277

Stephen,
After all this racist, hands up don’t shoot, Nazi, fascism, white supremacist, and covert Russian illegitimate President BS, you want to try and lecture us on rhetoric? That’s rich.

Fact: As you admit, we have had security breaches with refugees, and that alone justifies a temporary halt and review of our immigration process. Especially from terrorist ridden nations.
Fact: We are not privy to the intel that the President and his administration are, so we have no idea why Obama was lax about it, or why Trump believes it needs to be more strict.
Fact: Businesses and major cities are welcoming, coddling and pandering to illegal aliens. Our federal government has given illegal aliens some kind of BS ‘protective status.’ We have redefined how we count the deportation of illegal aliens in order to pad the numbers.
We are not enforcing our laws more harshly than ever.
Fact: Tax cuts keep more money in my pocket, I could care less how that effects the programs that those on the left pretend to care about.

It’s way past time for you to practice what you preach and start ‘to be bothered to demonstrate things factually.’

Posted by: kctim at March 9, 2017 9:14 AM
Comment #414280

1) I have no problem with people using rhetorical strategies and approaches, so long as it’s not used as a way to cover up for bad facts and worse logic.

2) I volunteered that a few lapses were caught, and after they were caught, screening was retooled to deal with them. That’s what is supposed to happen. So far, though, we have yet to see the kind of high profile failure that would warrant as draconian a response as we’ve gotten out of the Trump Administration. He’s looking to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.

3) This “Trump knows something we don’t” argument is easy to defeat. Simply ask the question, “Did Trump say we needed to stop the influx of refugees and ban Muslims before he had a security clearance to see the information we couldn’t see?”

The answer is yes.

4) Deportation is only one response to finding an undocumented immigrant here. The Federal government has discretion to take a number of options, and to prioritize who gets kicked out so that resources are put to the best advantage. The numbers you allege are being padded were bolstered by people simply turned away at the border… which is the point, right? Not waiting until they get in, but catching them and throwing them back before they get settled? As for what the cities are doing? Some cities have decided that it’s the federal government’s job to worry about undocumented immigrants, not theirs, especially since a lot of their functions get easier if they can talk to people without those people being afraid they might get deported. Republicans should remember that they used the same constitutional justification in order to opt out of the Medicaid Expansion.

5)As for Tax cuts keeping more money in your pocket?

I would point out to you that you’re probably keeping money in that pocket for a number of reasons that have to do with what taxes you pay. You’ll probably also, soon, be relying on taxpayer dollars of other taxpayers for some portion of either your income or your healthcare. There is nothing so self-destructive in this day and age as voting Republican. The party’s just become so overripe with corruption that they’ll do the stupidest things and not think twice about it. Your National Security Adviser was working for the Turkish government during at least part of the Trump Campaign. Seems like that’s one of many conflicts of interest that your people are stunningly disinterested about, given how much you protest you’re interested in draining the swamp.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 9, 2017 2:13 PM
Comment #414303

Stephen,
A temporary ban on immigration is in no way harsh or severe to the American people. In fact, I would argue that expecting Americans to tolerate ‘low profile’ events that could have possibly been prevented, is actually what is “draconian.”

I gave President Obama the benefit of doubt when it came to his actions on intel, and I will give President Trump the same.
For all we know, the situation could be worse than President Trump thought it to be. Trump won on actually addressing our refugee and terrorist problem and that is what he is trying to do.

You stated that our immigration laws have been enforced “more harshly than ever before.” You were wrong.

It is a fact that you keep more of your money when it is taxed less.
It is projection when you claim that higher taxes puts more money in your pocket because it equals A which in turn helps B which helps C which changes D and THAT saves me money.
So, I would point out that the rhetoric claiming that others know what is best for me, is no match to the fact that I know what is best for myself.

“You’ll probably also, soon, be relying on taxpayer dollars of other taxpayers for some portion of either your income or your healthcare.”

Probably not as “soon” as you apparently think, lol.
Rely on tax dollars? Highly doubtful my friend.

“There is nothing so self-destructive in this day and age as voting Republican.”

Depends totally on what side of the fence one is on:
If you support dependency on a large, centralized, all powerful government that puts the desires of society over the rights of the individual, then yes, you would consider that vote self-destructive.

If you support limited government and individual rights, then the Republicans, even with all their faults, is really the only choice you have.

I don’t recall mentioning “draining the swamp,” so I have no idea where that came from.

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2017 10:49 AM
Comment #414360
The only way to destroy the United States and its current form of government, is from within.

Exactly right kctim, to bad your inability to see Trump/Bannon and their actions for what they are. When you pick on a whole religion and/or a whole country for the actions of a few…well consider what we as Americans should do to the Christians because of a few radical Christians… say Atlanta.. or Waco… or OKC.

After all this racist, hands up don’t shoot, Nazi, fascism, white supremacist, and covert Russian illegitimate President BS, you want to try and lecture us on rhetoric? That’s rich.

Rhetoric!!! Where the F**k do you get off with crap like this kctim? Look at the facts instead of going all defense to protect Trump/Bannon and conservatives from the criticism they deserve. Conservatives are proposing a bill right now to demand employees give a DNA sample to corporations. White Supremacist are having a field day all over the country with signs with threats and with intimidation of minorities. The bring me your poor USA is discriminating against anyone not white. Reps in Congress are…well the list goes on pull your head out of your a** and look at the real news. It isn’t rhetoric when it is true.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2017 1:16 AM
Comment #414367

Ah, now we get some more good ole J2 silly rhetoric. Excellent.

Because of all this Russian conspiracy, fascism, supremacist etc… nonsense from you guys, this is about all you know of what I think of Trump being President:
The country is a thousand times better off than if Clinton would have won.
Facts, not ‘if this’ and ‘if that’ BS, will be required to prove your point.

You, as liberals, already “pick on” American Christians because of the words and actions of a few radical Christians.

“Where the F**k do you get off with crap like this kctim?”

They are called FACTS, J2, and the way you guys have been acting for the past few months, you really should get used to them.

Hands up don’t shoot was proven to be a lie.
The ridiculous Nazi claims are based on nothing but hyperbole by hyper partisans hoping to scare up votes for future elections.
The faux cries of fascism are nothing but an attempt to silence those who disagree with leftist hyperbole.
The white supremacist BS has proven to be over sensationalized biased hackery at its finest. The vast majority of so-called examples being nothing more than butt-hurt leftists afraid of losing special treatment, or being found to have been committed by leftists themselves.
Without FACTS to prove your point, the covert Russian illegitimate President bit is nothing but more hackery trying to build up to the next elections.

“It isn’t rhetoric when it is true.”

Hyperbole is not truth, J2. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can drop all this silly conspiracy rhetoric.

Posted by: kctim at March 14, 2017 9:51 AM
Comment #414368

Oh facts from Jones, Breitbart, Conway, Spicer, Bannon and/or Trump! Those “facts”? Hah don’t be ridiculous kctim those aren’t facts, they are conspiracy theory and fear presenting as facts for the deluded minds of conservative movement followers. I noticed you didn’t bother to respond to the facts in my last post choosing instead to keep it vague and ambiguous instead. I know, I know, deep state right! hah now there is some hyperbole…..

It is time to face facts kctim, the right wing in this country is the far right, the extreme right. What the h**l happened to transparency? You guys use to scream about transparency yet now that Trump is in office it is secrecy that seems to be the conservative battle cry. Freedom of the press is attacked by the far right Trump administration. Freedom of assembly is denounced by most conservatives as they protect the shift to far right extremist in the government. Trumpcare, need I say more, other than the you guys fell for that ol’ line?

You guys hide behind the “It isn’t fascism when we do it” mentality but you are deluding yourselves. Trump has a corrupt administration fueled by a corrupt repub led Congress and their moneymen. Don’t kid yourself my friend wake up and smell the stench of conservative “small government” for what it is.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2017 11:01 AM
Comment #414373

My Lefty Pal j2t2 is apparently horrified by a “small(er) government”. We wonder how reductions in government will affect him? How will he be harmed?

It is a truism, that even my Pal j2t2 won’t deny, that The Left loves big government.

Why do they love big government? AH…that is the real issue. The primary reason is that big government means more power, and more power means more money to spend, and more money to spend translates into more votes; and more votes keeps them in power.

Trump is the only president since Reagan who called for, and followed up with action, reducing the size of the federal government. He is the only president since Reagan who is calling for a reduction in the power of the executive branch, and a return of stolen power to the individual states.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 14, 2017 3:28 PM
Comment #414376

Royal it isn’t a smaller government I am “apparently horrified” by, it is small government as in “6. Narrow in outlook; petty: a small mind.” http://www.thefreedictionary.com/small


It is a truism, that even my Pal j2t2 won’t deny, that The Left loves big government.

I can’t speak for the left Royal but this small minded quote from you is narrow in outlook as well,IMHO. I would say I prefer a well run government that does what needs to be done. Getting rid of rules put in place by Obama without regard to whether they are needed or not doesn’t make government small it just allows corporations to pollute in order to save a penny. Ruining drinking water and such is small minded IMHO not small government.

Trump is the only president since Reagan who called for, and followed up with action, reducing the size of the federal government.

Bloating the military even more reduces the size of government? Haphazardly taking away regulations…..Once again making government small minded not small.

He is the only president since Reagan who is calling for a reduction in the power of the executive branch, and a return of stolen power to the individual states.

By writing executive orders! Doing away with some regulations may be necessary, wholesale axing of regulations based solely upon the date of origin of the regulations is small minded. The power isn’t returned to states it is returned to corporations.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2017 5:12 PM
Comment #414377

j2t2 writes; “I would say I prefer a well run government that does what needs to be done.”

Wow…how long did it take to dream up that non-committal and Left State Idealism? I fell quite certain that j2t2 could tell us “what needs to be done”. The question is; does that translate into “well-run”? Obamacare is a prime example of the Left’s desire to do good resulting in horrendous consequences for the nation.

The Left never runs out of idealism. They always run out of other peoples money.

“…allows corporations to pollute…”

Examples please.

“Haphazardly taking away regulations…..”

Examples please.

“The power isn’t returned to states it is returned to corporations.”

Examples please.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 14, 2017 5:23 PM
Comment #414382

kctim-
First, the ban isn’t evenhanded, or aimed at certain practices, organizations, or other objective criteria. They’re aimed with a broad brush at a RELIGION. Whether you look at it as privileging one or discouraging the practice of another, it’s unconstitutional. I know people out there have a whole bunch of excuses for why that should fly. They usually do. Lots of Tyrannies are built on “for all we know” metastasizing into either “we know, whatever evidence we might lack,” or “we don’t know, so why don’t we run roughshod through people’s private lives in order to protect them, without reserving such intrusion for times when it’s actually called for.”

Take your pick.

I’m not wrong that Obama turned more people away from our borders than have been turned away for a long time. The evidence backs that up. Pesky stuff. Think we know the truth, but then it comes along and upends our ideas.

You say, “it’s a fact that you keep more of your money when it is taxed less.” Really? No, that’s an argument with a s***load of assumptions, generalizations, and economic inputs and outputs ignored. If the FDA’s meat inspection gets stopped, how often do I end up having to throw out meat or a meal that I got at the store? How much do I end up paying for a hospital bill when I get food poisoning. How much does that drug end up costing me, and does it actually cure me, or does it do nothing, or worse, cripple me? Your analysis of government is cost/benefit, hold the benefit. You pretend that somehow our economy and our society exists separate of our system of government, as if the nature of the rules by which our society lives doesn’t matter.

I mean, really, would your bosses have paid you what they did, given the deference they did to your schedule, or do any number of things, if they could get away with more? If you look at the situation in America before progressive reforms and new deal reforms changed the landscape, or if you look over in China, you’ll see the answer is yes. Some people aren’t stopped by the customs of informal, organic, market-driven, social network-dreven society. Some people, if they have the power, will screw you.

When our basic, fundamental, Maslow Hierarchy needs are compromised by that, then whatever your dreams of libertarian paradise are, folks will revolt. The Republicans have gotten mileage out of manipulating some people into blaming the Democrats for everything, but you know something? When the chips are down and the power is theirs, these days, they can’t help themselves.

I don’t support dependency on a sizable government, so much as I see it as a necessary part of having a large, complex society that doesn’t descend into a failed state. You let too many toes tread on too many feet, and the results won’t be pretty.

The trick of it, though, is that just giving people more power doesn’t solve that problem, either. Nor is it just some middle-point between the two. There’s a dimension that your political philosophy, but also others on the left misses out on: variation in the strength of government.

You limit government by altering when it’s authority is triggered and not triggered. The 4th Amendment is a good example. We give cops the authority to search, but they have to have a reason they can defend to do it, and ideally, a warrant. We give the government the power to wiretap, but demand that a warrant be first sworn out. What’s the basis of both? Probable cause to believe a crime has been committed.

The beautiful aspect to that approach is that it focuses limited government resources more on real crimes and real criminals. It helps push against abuses of the office, gives the people a fighting chance to stand up for their rights and their interests against the corrupt and the overzealous.

I support a government ruled by reason. Trick is, it can’t just be ruled by my reason, it also has to be ruled by yours, and you’ve given that up in favor of nice-sounding litmus tests and dogmas. A hugely important aspect of what the Framers envisioned was people seeking out information to inform themselves.

Royal Flush-
Both Bush and Reagan ended up growing the government. Trump might succeed in destroying it, but he might take the Republicans with it, because he’s seeming to make war on the very bureaucratic apparatus he’ll have to turn to in order to make all his laws and programs work. He is running WAY behind where any other Administration in recent memory has run, in terms of hiring lieutenants within the departments to help him run stuff.

Here’s the thing you’re not considering, your neglected dimension of political thought to match kctims is this: there are any number of different, alternate ways to carry out your agenda. Some of these ways will work splendidly. Others will blow up in your face. If the backlash from “you can keep your doctor” was bad, imagine what happens when tens of millions of people lose their insurance directly as a result of Republican legislation and policy.

You can argue the imperfections of Obamacare, but the basic principle of universal affordable care has a certain charm that its opposite does not. You can criticize how it falls short. We can criticize how a repeal of Obamacare actually succeeds. When folks find out that, as bad as deductibles were for some plans, they are set to go through the roof for the ones that will replace them… that won’t reflect well on GOP policy.

There are smart ways and dumb ways to carry out the ideals of conservatism. That’s what your people fail to realize, I think. They’re like Marathon runners who overload on booze, potato-chips, and pizza the day before, and end up thinking, oh, it’s all just the same, the calories are calories.

Republicans took a very cheap-seats, overly absolute, overly hasty approach to taking back power, and now the one thing they drilled into people’s heads, this promise to undo Obamacare, is coming back to haunt them. Now they have to figure out how to replace a law that’s worked relatively well, increased coverage, without destroying that coverage, or bringing back what people by now would consider to be barbaric insurance industry practices.

The question you need to be asking yourself right now… scratch that, needed to be asking several years ago, was just what the political ads written in response to the consequences of the repeal would be. 24 million people losing coverage, tens of thousands dying as a result?

Republicans are fast on their way to making their Congressional Majority the real-life Death Panel.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at March 14, 2017 7:25 PM
Comment #414393

J2,

“those aren’t facts, they are conspiracy theory and fear”

Your inability to refute those facts does not make them non-factual.
There are no facts to back up the claim that Russia “owns” President Trump or altered our election. There are no facts to back up the fascism and Nazi nonsense. There are no facts to back up the white supremacy BS.
They are nothing but partisan drivel, opinion and hyperbole.

“I noticed you didn’t bother to respond to the facts in my last post”

No, I didn’t respond to your hyperbole.
The DNA bill is the logical, and VERY expected, next step towards the government health care you guys think you are entitled to be given. It is to help cut costs.
As I’ve said before, if government is paying for and controlling your ‘free’ health care, it is going to have the power to control you.
Oh, and yes, I am totally against it.

White supremacists are not having some kind of ‘field day’ all over the country because Trump is President. FFS.
Yes, there are always a few idiots. Always has been. There are also tons of fabricated reports, and reports based on new definitions, which only cheapen the true accounts of actual racism. Then you have a left-wing sensationalist media pushing the narrative.

Actually enforcing our immigration laws is not discriminating against anyone not white. Supporting and wanting to protect our country and its culture, is not discriminating against anyone not white.

Deep state? A corrupt network of wealthy elites that has hijacked our government? Isn’t that your thing, J2?

“the right wing in this country is the far right, the extreme right.”

Just because they haven’t moved as far left as the liberals, doesn’t mean they are now far right or extreme. For christ sakes, J2, on issues that actually matter, they sound like 90s democrats.

“Freedom of the press is attacked by the far right Trump administration.”

Um, no. Blatant negative bias is being criticized by the very same people who criticized the blatant positive bias for Obama.
And let’s be honest here J2, Obama, his administration and his minnions did nothing but attack FOX and right-wing talk radio for the past 8 years.

“Freedom of assembly is denounced by most conservatives as they protect the shift to far right extremist in the government.”

More baseless hyperbole.
What has been denounced is the rioting, destruction, threatening and violence.

“You guys hide behind the “It isn’t fascism when we do it” mentality but you are deluding yourselves.”

There is only one side that stands for a centralized government that is domineering and that refuses to take into account other peoples rights and opinions. That uses race to divide and place society above the individual. That supports and promotes economic and social regimentation. Who is actively taking part in the forcible suppression of opposition. And it’s not the right.

The problem isn’t a corrupt administration and congress, or their “moneymen” or the special interest groups you support. We all know and agree that something needs to be done about them. The problem is that you guys only care and want to act when it’s not your people in the lead.

How you guys can complain about corrupt government and it being manipulated in one breath, and then call for a much bigger and more intrusive government in the next, is beyond me.

Posted by: kctim at March 15, 2017 10:22 AM
Comment #414394

J2,

“those aren’t facts, they are conspiracy theory and fear”

Your inability to refute those facts does not make them non-factual.
There are no facts to back up the claim that Russia “owns” President Trump or altered our election. There are no facts to back up the fascism and Nazi nonsense. There are no facts to back up the white supremacy BS.
They are nothing but partisan drivel, opinion and hyperbole.

“I noticed you didn’t bother to respond to the facts in my last post”

No, I didn’t respond to your hyperbole.
The DNA bill is the logical, and VERY expected, next step towards the government health care you guys think you are entitled to be given. It is to help cut costs.
As I’ve said before, if government is paying for and controlling your ‘free’ health care, it is going to have the power to control you.
Oh, and yes, I am totally against it.

White supremacists are not having some kind of ‘field day’ all over the country because Trump is President. FFS.
Yes, there are always a few idiots. Always has been. There are also tons of fabricated reports, and reports based on new definitions, which only cheapen the true accounts of actual racism. Then you have a left-wing sensationalist media pushing the narrative.

Actually enforcing our immigration laws is not discriminating against anyone not white. Supporting and wanting to protect our country and its culture, is not discriminating against anyone not white.

Deep state? A corrupt network of wealthy elites that has hijacked our government? Isn’t that your thing, J2?

“the right wing in this country is the far right, the extreme right.”

Just because they haven’t moved as far left as the liberals, doesn’t mean they are now far right or extreme. For christ sakes, J2, on issues that actually matter, they sound like 90s democrats.

“Freedom of the press is attacked by the far right Trump administration.”

Um, no. Blatant negative bias is being criticized by the very same people who criticized the blatant positive bias for Obama.
And let’s be honest here J2, Obama, his administration and his minnions did nothing but attack FOX and right-wing talk radio for the past 8 years.

“Freedom of assembly is denounced by most conservatives as they protect the shift to far right extremist in the government.”

More baseless hyperbole.
What has been denounced is the rioting, destruction, threatening and violence.

“You guys hide behind the “It isn’t fascism when we do it” mentality but you are deluding yourselves.”

There is only one side that stands for a centralized government that is domineering and that refuses to take into account other peoples rights and opinions. That uses race to divide and place society above the individual. That supports and promotes economic and social regimentation. Who is actively taking part in the forcible suppression of opposition. And it’s not the right.

The problem isn’t a corrupt administration and congress, or their “moneymen” or the special interest groups you support. We all know and agree that something needs to be done about them. The problem is that you guys only care and want to act when it’s not your people in the lead.

How you guys can complain about corrupt government and it being manipulated in one breath, and then call for a much bigger and more intrusive government in the next, is beyond me.

Posted by: kctim at March 15, 2017 10:24 AM
Comment #414398

Stephen,

The travel ban is aimed directly at nations that have been designated as havens for terrorists and it is only temporary.
Controlling immigration or visits to our country is NOT unconstitutional.

No, it’s not wrong to state that Obama ‘turned more people away’ from our border, it is wrong to try and claim it means anything when we are talking about actual deportations. Previous administrations, I think up until Bush II, did not count ‘turning people away’ at the border. Especially since the majority of it occurred within 100 miles or so of the border.
Also, we were discussing enforcing our border laws, something that sanctuary businesses, cities and states are not doing, and something the dreamer act clearly ignores.
So yes, the evidence and the truth definitely upends any naive ideas you might have about our border laws.

“You say, “it’s a fact that you keep more of your money when it is taxed less.” Really?”

Yes. Not only is it an absolute fact, it is also common sense. The less money taken from you, the more money you have.
It is only when you start talking about ‘IF somebody else doesn’t do this, I might have to do that,’ that you enter the land of assumptions and generalizations.

“The Republicans have gotten mileage out of manipulating some people into blaming the Democrats for everything”

This is exactly why you guys are in the position you are today, Stephen.
What Republicans have gotten mileage out of is by concentrating their attacks on important things that actually matter to people. While you guys have been dinking around with labeling white people as evil and privileged, with calling people racists for supporting low taxes and national security, and with trying to let grown men shower with little girls, the Republicans have been reminding people of where you stand on the important stuff: freedom of religion, the 2nd Amendment, higher taxes, freedom of individual choice, our exceptionalism etc…
You guys tried to rule by forcing your so-called reasoning and it was rejected.

IF you guys weren’t constantly attacking each and every one of those, Hillary would be President.
IF you guys didn’t view our founding documents, our culture, and our history as nothing more than some outdated ‘established opinion’ to be changed at whim in the name of “progress,” she would be President.

I support a government controlled by The People, not one with control over the people. You may consider that nothing but out-dated rhetoric, but you will never get my vote again until you respect it once again.

Posted by: kctim at March 15, 2017 11:22 AM
Comment #414401

Stephen wrote; “…imagine what happens when tens of millions of people lose their insurance directly as a result of Republican legislation and policy.”

OH, those folks who are not required by law to purchase insurance…and don’t? Let freedom ring Pal.

Questions for Stephen and any other Lefty with the balls to answer honestly.

Do you have Obamacare?

If yes, what is your deductible and co-pay?

How much do you pay out-of-pocket for your coverage?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 15, 2017 4:24 PM
Comment #415384

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Posted by: Jaydenem at April 17, 2017 6:23 PM
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