Tom Price - the Right Choice With a Big Job Ahead

Give credit to President-Elect Trump for choosing Tom Price - a GOP House member with lots of policy experience and a former doctor himself - as HHS Secretary. Give him credit, as in a tax credit, that is. Because Tom Price has spent years devising an alternative to Obamacare and not just advocating its repeal. And tax credits are at the heart of his plan.

Rather than a tax break to help finance your health insurance premiums which involves pulling back the hand of government from healthcare and which benefits those who pay more taxes; a tax credit is really a form of government spending. And it helps those at the lower end of the income scale. Many of those who have already enrolled in Obamacare, in other words. While tax breaks tend to help those at the higher end of the income scale.

Tax credits may not please people like Bobby Jindal, who apparently was under consideration as well for the job, precisely because they are a form of government spending. He has denounced tax credits as Obamacare Lite. Clearly Jindal would prefer more of a focus on HSA's and catastrophe insurance that is affordable for those with lower incomes. That means really high deductibles and the responsibility to invest wisely in one's HSA to help pay for major surgery.

But in picking Tom Price, Trump has chosen a more moderate road to replacing Obamacare, one that is as much reforming as it is replacing. Price's healthcare plan does include strengthening HSA's and providing block grants to states to deal with pre-existing conditions. And yes - sorry Marco Rubio though it was kinda cute when you made fun of Trump's proposition during the debates - it includes allowing patients to purchase insurance across state lines.

But there is another aspect to Tom Price that is being criticized by progressives and, specifically, feminists. He is unabashedly and firmly pro-life. While the repeal and replace plan he puts together will attract major media attention and place the Secretary in the spotlight, how he deals with questions of abortion and contraception will be key in the months and years ahead. Right now, most of his boosters would rather not talk about this. Obamacare is clearly and obviously the priority. But Tom Price and the Trump administration will also have to manage a pushback from progressives and liberals on these issues as well. The Secretary has his work cut out for him, but he certainly seems to be the right choice for the job.

Posted by Keeley at November 30, 2016 5:58 PM
Comments
Comment #410709

Keeley, the carrot (tax credit) always gets more and better results than the stick (penalty).

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 30, 2016 6:26 PM
Comment #410710

“It is obvious the current strategy doesn’t work,” said Rep. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona. “Millions of Americans don’t feel that our party represents them anymore and they’ve said so, loudly, in multiple elections.”

And yet, Nancy Pelosi (age 76) remains minority leader and her top two lieutenants who’ve served by her side for years were also re-elected Wednesday, both by acclimation. Maryland Rep. Steny Hoyer, 77, will continue to serve as Democratic whip, and South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn, 76, will continue in the No. 3 spot as assistant leader.

The Democrat Party remains leaderless with no rising stars to replace the staid, worn out, old horses representing nothing much that America wants.

The Republicans won with new blood, fresh ideas, and a kiss goodbye to business as usual.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 30, 2016 6:49 PM
Comment #410716

Right Royal, maybe they will run Hill and Bill again in 2020.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 30, 2016 8:34 PM
Comment #410720

I applaud the nomination of Tom Price. He will strengthen Obamacare, giving it the Republican support it vitally needs.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 30, 2016 11:33 PM
Comment #410724

WP
Price will not strengthen any Obamacare. His plan is a total replacement of the fraud and corruption of the nobamacare.

Posted by: tom humes at December 1, 2016 2:19 AM
Comment #410741

REAL healthcare reform will not take place until people understand just how much healthcare costs. Until we stop using normative statements like “affordable care” and start with real economic analysis of the problem we are just going to keep spinning our wheels.

My family healthcare policy cost me $21,000 this year. My out of pocket was a little over $2k, and I got a $350 rebate for being healthy. So my total healthcare expense (hoping I don’t have anymore expenses!) is just shy of $23k of which about $5k was actual healthcare service delivery for my family.

Is that “affordable”? No! So we mask it to make it feel affordable. In my case 80% of my salary goes as the employer portion of premium and co-pays and prescription drug costs hide the actual costs of my services. In the case of the ACA the tax credit masks the real cost in order to get people to sign up. We spend so much energy trying to get people to not realize what is really going.

This year I had a doctor order an MRI for my teenager with a sore back. Oh by the way the clinic he worked for happened to have an MRI machine. That’s what you get when you use a cost reimbursement approach to buying goods and services; the incentive to the seller is to sell as much as they can justify. Go build your next house on a cost reimbursement basis and see how it works out for you.

Posted by: George in SC at December 1, 2016 2:03 PM
Comment #410742

Remember when businesses were geared toward specific products? Book stores sold stuff you read. Hardware stores sold hardware. Music stores sold music and even video stores sold videos. Grocery stores sold food.

Now you go to Walmart and buy all of that in one store. It costs less per item, but does it really? When you consider all the individual, family owned businesses that have gone bankrupt weeks after the Walmart opens, does it really cost less?

Look at how hospitals have to keep up with the Jones’s, so to speak. If one has an MRI machine the other must get an MRI machine to “compete”. They both say the 2500$ expense for a one-time use of the MRI is because of the cost of the machine, yet they both buy separate machines!

In the case of MRI machines, what is prohibiting one doctor modeling his practice on providing MRIs to both/all the community’s hospitals? Who’s to say one MRI machine can’t support the many surrounding hospitals needs for that product? And if a person want’s to have an MRI done to make a lampshade out of the film, or something like that, why is he denied that luxury because of a doctor having to prescribe it?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 1, 2016 2:22 PM
Comment #410745
REAL healthcare reform will not take place until people understand just how much healthcare costs

Without a doubt. A lot of it comes down to the fact that we do not and have never had a true free market for medical care. Be they information asymmetries or moral hazards, there are many issues that prevent Homo Economicus from emerging in the marketplace. The MRI machine is but one example. Because of humanitarian concerns, we aren’t willing to restrict provision of emergency care to people who need it, but cannot afford it. In other words, we do not let seriously ill or injured people to die on the streets.

Other countries have solved this issue by putting the government in charge of funding health care, arguing that it is a public good. Indeed, the cost of providing care is much lower in other OECD nations where governments regulate health care much more tightly. People like George in SC’s son will not get those superfluous MRIs because government bureaucrats forbid it. Frankly, I think the final solution is either going to be socialism or acracy.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 1, 2016 2:49 PM
Comment #410750

Another part of the problem is the AMA, which artificially restricts the supply of doctors. In addition, other countries view being a doctor as a calling. The idea that doctors should driven by the desire to become rich strikes people outside the US as a very bad idea.

The result is that the US pays about twice as much per capita- or more- than any other industrialized country in the world for its health care.

The Trump nominee, Price, is ridiculous. He is a Tea Party whack job, and outside of a group of about 30 like minded whack jobs in the House, no one in government will listen to him, neither Republican nor Democrat.

The push by Republicans to kill Medicare is truly scary, and make no mistake, going along with Speaker Ryan’s idea for privatizing it with a voucher program will kill it. About the only bright side is that Americans might finally wake up and vote for universal health care, or Medicare-For-All.

My own experience with health care over the past few years has run the full gamut, from no coverage, (which I paid for out of pocket), to being covered by Obamacare through my wife’s job, to no coverage and paying the fee.

At this point I will not sign up for health care next year. It is risky. Since I will not qualify for a subsidy, health insurance will cost my wife and I almost $11,000, with a deductible of $5000. Just to break even would require a disastrous accident. There is a two month enrollment period during which I could enroll and not be turned down, so that more or less means going without coverage for 10 months and then paying the fee. It is a terrible decision to have to make, but balancing the certainty of being out @ $15,000 versus the outside possibility of a catastrophic accident or disease, I will take the risk.

Posted by: phx8 at December 1, 2016 3:36 PM
Comment #410751

By the way, about 77% of all Americans are covered through their workplace. I happen to fall into that small number of people who do not qualify for a subsidy for Obamacare. (I have elected to pay out-of-pocket for it in the past). For anyone who does not already have coverage through work, Medicare, or whatever, and qualifies for the Obamacare subsidy, I would strongly encourage them to enroll.

Posted by: phx8 at December 1, 2016 3:41 PM
Comment #410810
Price will not strengthen any Obamacare. His plan is a total replacement of the fraud and corruption of the nobamacare.

I don’t think so.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 2, 2016 2:56 PM
Comment #410822

It sounds like the preexisting conditions law is separate from the ACA, but written into it. If that’s the case, Republicans can pass a law dealing specifically with preexisting conditions and repeal the ACA in it’s entirety.

Would that be an alternative worthy of consideration?


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 2, 2016 7:09 PM
Comment #410836
It sounds like the preexisting conditions law is separate from the ACA.
Wrong. The prohibition on preexisting condition discrimination IS the ACA. Everything in the law is purposed around it. Posted by: Warren Porter at December 3, 2016 10:03 AM
Comment #410837


From your article, Warren Porter:

It turns out they can repeal a lot. In a 2015 dry run, both houses of Congress passed a reconciliation bill that included a repeal of most things people identify with Obamacare: the subsidies, the individual mandate, the expansion of Medicaid, all of Obamacare’s new taxes, and several smaller provisions. These were approved by the parliamentarian and would presumably pass muster again. (Obama vetoed the legislation a few days after it was passed.)

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/12/lets_have_an_open_obamacare_debate.html

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 3, 2016 12:31 PM
Comment #410859

I’m sure the GOP will “repeal” Obamacare in dramatic and public fashion. However, whatever replacement they draw up will more closely resemble the Healthcare system of the past 3 years than the Healthcare system from before Obama.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 4, 2016 11:16 AM
Comment #410860

I think we’re going to see more discussion about selling policies across state lines. I hope to see more about tort reform.

I’d also like to have Ron Paul’s suggestion of a one time payment for insurance prior to surgery.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 4, 2016 12:03 PM
Comment #410879

If they don’t address the employer provided system then whatever they do will fail just as the ACA has failed. It’s still the biggest bucket although as a percentage it has dropped from 65% of the total in 2000 to 49% in 2015.

And I’ve never been opposed to a single payer solution. 36% of the population gets their insurance from the government already. As long as it is a single payer system designed that does not try to hide the high cost of healthcare in this country.

Posted by: George in SC at December 5, 2016 10:11 AM
Comment #410880

So, we put an anti-vaxxer, anti-Medicare, anti-social security quack in charge of healthcare. I know Royal Flush loves to crow about how profoundly popular the GOP is at the moment (even though it lost, rather than gained members in congress) But it seems like they’re dead set on putting that popularity to the test.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 5, 2016 10:15 AM
Comment #410881
If they don’t address the employer provided system then whatever they do will fail just as the ACA has failed. It’s still the biggest bucket although as a percentage it has dropped from 65% of the total in 2000 to 49% in 2015.

Very true. If the GOP can short circuit the third rail of employer based insurance, they will learn my laud. Nearly every shortcoming of the ACA came about because it didn’t go far enough to reform the health care system. Of course, the reason it did not go far enough is because Republicans spruned the entire idea of reforming the health care system from the onset. Now that the GOP is going to actually come aboard and negotiate in good faith, there are many more possibilities.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 5, 2016 11:01 AM
Comment #410882
The Republicans won with new blood, fresh ideas, and a kiss goodbye to business as usual.

Oh I thought Trump won the election, 70 year old Donald Trump won on the “Make America Great Again” lie. Bringing back old nonexistent jobs, building the wall and cutting taxes on the rich and the social safety net on the poor…. hardly fresh ideas.

Since when does dredging the bottom of the swamp to get retired Generals and and such count as “kiss goodbye business as usual” Unless you count handing state secrets to your mistresses as the new way of doing things.


But in post truth America I guess it counts ….right? Zeig Heil Royal.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 5, 2016 11:19 AM
Comment #410883

Republicans want to believe that after ten to eight years of doing nothing and letting nothing be done, and reaping the political benefits of it, that they can create major changes people’s way of life on a minority vote without political cost.

In 2006, a similarly bold Republican Party was swamped in a wave election, and then hit again in 2008. Part of what got them hit was floating the idea of privatizing Medicare and Social Security. The big question is that, post financial crisis, with people’s faith in the stock market fairly low, and after years of bashing a market-based private health-insurance system, whether this is even close to the right time to make such profound changes.

That won’t stop them, though. Republicans don’t seem to know how to avoid overreach. It’s an article of faith to push their luck at all times.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at December 5, 2016 12:17 PM
Comment #410884

Stephen,
You have been preaching how disagreeing and stopping liberal policy equals ‘overreach,’ for 8+ years now. That the Republicans are pushing their luck, that the people disagree with and hate Republicans, that the Republicans are being rejected and the party is pretty much dead.
But yet, 2017 is right around the corner and they control all three houses of government and a vast majority of the governorship’s.

Your all’s alternate reality does not match up with actual reality, sorry.

I believe it’s safe to say that your end of the Republican Party predictions deserve to be placed right next to the leftists predictions of Nazi’s, racists, white supremacy and bigotry nonsense.

Posted by: kctim at December 5, 2016 12:41 PM
Comment #410885

IMO it’s the Democrats that need to rethink their position or they will cease to be a major party. Liberalism is their downfall.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 5, 2016 1:04 PM
Comment #410888

KAP,
Democrats have won the popular vote for president in 6/7 of the past elections. More people- a lot more- voted for Democratic Senators and Representatives.

Interesting factoid: 2/3 of the country’s GNP comes from states that voted blue.

All,
Is Trump naming the worst possible people for cabinet positions on purpose? It would hard to come up with more unfit, unsuitable choices if he were trying.

Tom Price, a doctor, wants to destroy health care for everyone except the rich. He belongs to an organization that promotes anti-vaccination conspiracies, among other things.

A white supremacist is chief political strategist.

A man who was turned down for a federal judgeship by a Republican Senate Judiciary Committee is for being too racist has been nominated for AG.

A woman with literally no experience with public schools- she has not attended one, her children have not either, and she has no degree in anything to do with education- will head the Department of Education. Her role seems to be to destroy public education. If the goal is to teach children cavemen rode around on dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, then she should do great.

Doctor Ben Carson has been nominated for HUD. Even he knows he is utterly unsuited for the position.

The National Security position is being filled by a general who was fired from his last management position for making such a disorganized mess of things.

The nominee for Treasury worked for Goldman Sachs. He was involved with mortgage derivatives, which played a prominent role in crashing the economy in 2008, and then he profited by foreclosing on people’s homes in a BIG way.

The Secretary of Defense is supposed to a civilian, because the military is supposed to be under civilian control. Trump, who has a casual understanding of these sort of concepts, at best, will have to gain a waiver from Congress for his pick. General Mattis is not necessarily a problem. It is the entire concept of a General running DoD that is bad.

The best pick seems to be hapless Reince Preibus for Chief of Staff. How sad is that!

Posted by: phx8 at December 5, 2016 3:24 PM
Comment #410889

phx8

You sure loaded up the elephant with the biggest load of manure to get shoveled by any democrat.

You southpaws are continuing to try out for SNL performances. The only thing is you think you are serious when you are nothing but twisters of truth, which is telling untruths.

There is nothing to debate here. One has to have a truthful base to garner any kind of debate. Non here.

I must take a pause here to quit laughing so much. Gotta leave it here.

Posted by: tom humes at December 5, 2016 4:25 PM
Comment #410892

Here’s silliness on steroids…”Nearly every shortcoming of the ACA came about because it didn’t go far enough to reform the health care system. Of course, the reason it did not go far enough is because Republicans spruned the entire idea…”

Warren, not a single Republican voted for the ACA and it passed and became law. The Dems could have written whatever they wanted into the bill and it would still have passed. Don’t be an ass and blame the shortcomings on anyone besides the authors and those who passed the legislation and the president who signed it. Crummy logic from a malfunctioning liberal mind.

Apparently j2t2 has read some Leftie literature while waiting hours in line for some government benefit and now understands that all opposition to his brand of politics must be Nazi inspired. j2t2 lives in “word poverty” it appears as his greatest insult is to use the Nazi name.

phx8 hit the replay button and his auto keyboard wrote the usual crap about Trump and his choices for leadership positions.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 5, 2016 5:18 PM
Comment #410903

phx8, If it wasn’t for N.Y. and California you Democraps would be on the short end of the stick especially California, Because that is where all of your votes are. Trump took 30 of the 50 states but still lost the popular vote.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at December 5, 2016 8:22 PM
Comment #410904

It is bad enough that Trump has no experience with government and is temperamentally unfit. He is a disaster waiting to happen. What makes it worse is that he is surrounding himself with people who are likely to make it worse.

I’m not that worried about picks like Carson or DeVos. They don’t know what they are doing and they are flatly unqualified to do their jobs. The harm they can do will not enough to sink the country, although undermining public education would certainly be bad over the long term. Anyway, people at HUD and Education will simply ignore them. Price will contribute to destroying health care for all but the wealthiest few, but hopefully we can all survive that. I am more worried by people like General Flynn, who could start a war, and white supremacists like Sessions at AG and Bannon in the White House, who will promote divisiveness, racism, and bigotry.

About the best I can do for my family is make sure no one joins the military. How bad will it be after four years? I’m encouraging one family member to take advantage of a job opening in Denmark. The coming years will be a bad time to be in America.

Posted by: phx8 at December 5, 2016 11:08 PM
Comment #410921

After eight years of divisiveness being preached by this administration, and the hateful divisive rhetoric guaranteed to continue through the next administration, the best I can do for my family is to make sure they are not gullible enough to fall for such nonsense.

To make sure they know actual white supremacists have been marginalized for decades now and are irrelevant. They are nothing but a far-left boogeyman resurrected only for political gain, by those who can only claim ‘progress’ by living in the past.

To make sure they know that all the false claims of racism, bigotry, sexism, xenophobia, end of the world, and all around hateful ugliness they are and will continue to witness, is based on nothing more than the rejection of far-left policy.

To make sure they know that love of country is not a bad thing.

Posted by: kctim at December 6, 2016 9:48 AM
Comment #410922

Love of country does not relieve people from higher obligations. The history books are filled with bad people who loved their countries, and went on to do terrible things because they thought their country was exceptional.

Bad leaders do not run around sneering, twirling their mustache, and laughing maniacally. There will be no blinking neon sign posted next to them saying ‘bad guy.’ They may very well love their country a great deal.

Still, there is a higher obligation, a moral obligation, and means recognizing evil and calling it for what it is.

Bad people in government rarely think they are bad; just the opposite. And it is never really black and white. There will be cases where bad people do good things.

So when a person promotes the conspiracy theory that Obama is a Muslim and not an American citizen, and that person repeatedly re-tweets racist posts from Neo-Nazi message boards, and wants to ban all Muslims from entering the country, and says they may not accept the results of an election unless they win, and falsely claims millions of illegal are votinig, that Mexicans are criminals and rapists being sent here by Mexico, that a judge of Mexican descent cannot give a fair ruling precisely because he is Mexican-

That is a bad person.

They may say lots of nice things. They may say they love the country.

That’s not enough.

You have to make a judgment. The facts are indisputable. They are not ‘claims.’ They may be hateful, and ugly, but this is no mere dispute over policy. These are facts pertaining to hatefulness and ugliness. Pretending otherwise does not relieve a person from their moral obligations to recognize the facts for what they are.

Posted by: phx8 at December 6, 2016 11:36 AM
Comment #410923
Apparently j2t2 has read some Leftie literature while waiting hours in line for some government benefit

Nope I am reading Trumps playbook, it’s called “Mein Kampf” Royal. I figure I had better get into line what with Sessions and Bannon running the show whilst Trump is busy looting in that banana republic/ Putins Russia way.

and now understands that all opposition to his brand of politics must be Nazi inspired. j2t2 lives in “word poverty” it appears as his greatest insult is to use the Nazi name.

Well Royal it seems that you are guilty of jumping to illogical conclusions my friend. To think that “all opposition to his brand of politics” is anything but “logic poverty” tells us you are only fooling yourself. I don’t use the Zeig Heil as an insult but as a reminder. Not so much for you but there are many people who voted Trump in that will need to be reminded down the road that they got what they wanted.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/?utm_source=atlfbcomment

Lets face it guys you can deny all you want, as kctim has done for some time now. But that doesn’t make things go away. The far right extremist have gained a say in the highest office in the country. I know I know Trump disavowed them, but only after the election in a wink wink sorta way….. Meanwhile he makes Bannon the brain that runs the country.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 6, 2016 11:37 AM
Comment #410926

Phx8,
The hatred of Trump is based on nothing but perceived ideas of his policy and what is believed to be needed to defeat him. That is why your ‘indisputable facts’ are based on nothing but partisan hyperbole, which makes them very open to question and debate.
You have absolutely no idea why Trump believed the birther nonsense. You reject his clarification of wanting to strengthen immigration procedures from terrorist ridden Muslim areas. You demanded he accept results he had not seen yet. You refuse to accept the reality of illegal votes being cast. You twist ‘Mexico is sending its criminals,’ to Mexicans are criminals and rapists. You cannot admit that a judge heavily involved with a group that promotes the “common heritage and destiny” of “Hispanic Spanish-speakers in the Americas: Mexicans, Mexican Americans, or Spanish-speaking people of the Americas, considered as a group,” might just have a conflict of interest.

Look, you guys should absolutely hammer Trump every chance you can. You should hope he fails in implementing policy you disagree with. But IF you want it to have any effect at all you are going to have to base it on actual facts, not partisan opinions and stereotypes.

J2,
I’m not denying any facts or truth. I am laughing at your silly conspiracy theories and your inability to defend them.

Posted by: kctim at December 6, 2016 2:42 PM
Comment #410927

kctim,
“You have absolutely no idea why Trump believed the birther nonsense.”

Yes. I do. There is only one reason to ascribe to that conspiracy theory. There is not, and never was, a shred of truth to it. Trump also questioned Obama’s religious preference, and more than once, hinted that Obama was a Muslim.

“You reject his clarification of wanting to strengthen immigration procedures from terrorist ridden Muslim areas.”

Clarification! Really. It took an awfully loooong time for him to ‘clarify’ that little piece of bigotry.

“You demanded he accept results he had not seen yet.”

Yes. A candidate is expected to accept the validity of an election. States have their elections run by a Secretary of State, and the majority of those are Republicans. Without exception, those people stated the election was legitimate. After an election there are mechanisms to review the results which vary state by state.

“You refuse to accept the reality of illegal votes being cast.”

That is right. There is no evidence to support that. None.

Here is the quote: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

You write: “You cannot admit that a judge heavily involved with a group that promotes the “common heritage and destiny” of “Hispanic Spanish-speakers in the Americas: Mexicans, Mexican Americans, or Spanish-speaking people of the Americas, considered as a group,” might just have a conflict of interest.

Correct. That, as Speaker Ryan said about Trump, is the textbook example of a racist comment; the idea that a person cannot do their job because of their race. (By the way, that judge was born in Indiana).

Policy disagreements are always fair game. Trump’s policies are still, for the most part, unknown.

Posted by: phx8 at December 6, 2016 4:31 PM
Comment #410929

I’m encouraging one family member to take advantage of a job opening in Denmark. The coming years will be a bad time to be in America.
Posted by: phx8 at December 5, 2016 11:08 PM

Perhaps your “family member” could do the nation a favor and take a few illegals with him/her.

Posted by: Royal Flush at December 6, 2016 5:24 PM
Comment #410930

Phx8,

“There is only one reason to ascribe to that conspiracy theory.”

Actually, there are multiple reasons.
- The President must be a citizen, so the issue was brought up in the Clinton vs Obama battle to sway voters over to Clinton. It was then used by those on the right in hopes of stopping a liberal from becoming President.
- The U.S. is predominately a Christian nation, so claiming that a man with a muslim sounding name is actually a muslim, would also be a way to sway some voters to your side.

“Clarification! Really. It took an awfully loooong time for him to ‘clarify’ that little piece of bigotry.”

Only to those who believe it is intolerant to acknowledge the fact that the world has a problem with muslim terrorists.

“Yes. A candidate is expected to accept the validity of an election.”

Except when one believes that voter rolls have been purged of innocent people, intentional road blocks were set up, a cheating SoS broke the law, and hanging chads, right? He11, you guys are questioning the validity of an election right now by claiming Russian hacks, hidden vote boxes and bogus suppression.

Accept the validity of an election? Please.
Trump didn’t give a direct answer when asked during Wednesday’s final presidential debate whether he would accept the results of the election: “I will look at it at the time. I’m not looking at anything now. I’ll look at it at the time,” Trump told moderator Fox News’ Chris Wallace.

“That is right. There is no evidence to support that. None.”

Sorry my friend, but illegal votes are cast in just about every election.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/17/cincinnati-illegal-voting/2530119/

I am well aware of his quote and nowhere in there does he state ‘Mexicans are criminals and rapists’ as you would like us to believe. He very clearly stated that Mexico sends their criminals and rapists across our border.

“the idea that a person cannot do their job because of their race. (By the way, that judge was born in Indiana).”

Only it wasn’t about his race, it was about his past rulings and his advocacy.

Posted by: kctim at December 6, 2016 6:01 PM
Comment #410947
Sorry my friend, but illegal votes are cast in just about every election.

So kctim you attempt to justify the ALEC voter suppression laws by showing a poll worker defrauding the system? I’m just not seeing how these people mentioned using absentee ballots would be affected by the ALEC laws you defend. So please explain it to me.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 7, 2016 12:08 PM
Comment #410957
It was then used by those on the right in hopes of stopping a liberal from becoming President.

Why didn’t the right make claims like this against John Kerry, Al Gore or Bill Clinton when they made Presidential Bids?

The U.S. is predominately a Christian nation, so claiming that a man with a muslim sounding name is actually a muslim, would also be a way to sway some voters to your side.

If a person changes their vote on account of a candidate’s (perceived) religion, isn’t that by definition bigoted behavior?


nowhere in there does he state ‘Mexicans are criminals and rapists’ as you would like us to believe. He very clearly stated that Mexico sends their criminals and rapists across our border.

When discussing Trump, aren’t we supposed to take his words seriously rather than literally?

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 7, 2016 9:09 PM
Comment #410967

Warren, had their been any doubt about those candidates being born on U.S. soil there would have been “birther” claims.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/07/there-was-a-very-real-birther-debate-about-john-mccain/?utm_term=.721aa8e95fcb

Posted by: George in SC at December 8, 2016 7:49 AM
Comment #410975

J2,
Phx8 stated that “there is no evidence to support” illegal votes are cast in elections. That link is just one of many that prove his statement to be wrong.

Warren,
There was never a question about any of those guys being born in the United States.

Disagreeing with another’s views does not automatically equal treating one with hatred and intolerance.

“When discussing Trump, aren’t we supposed to take his words seriously rather than literally?”

Meh. I’d settle for honestly.

Posted by: kctim at December 8, 2016 11:15 AM
Comment #411004
had their been any doubt about those candidates being born on U.S. soil there would have been “birther” claims.

But, there never was any reason to doubt Obama’s birth in Hawaii any more than Gore’s birth in DC or Kerry’s birth in Colorado. McCain actually was born outside the 50 states, which is why it became a minor issue.

There was never a question about any of those guys being born in the United States.
This is circular reasoning. There was never a question because the right didn’t make any claims about those men.
Disagreeing with another’s views does not automatically equal treating one with hatred and intolerance.

Each and every liberal agrees 100%. However, Trump has been pilloried as a racist for reasons other than his disagreement with the Left.

I’d settle for honestly.

Do you honestly believe, “And some, I assume, are good people” implies that the vast majority of illegal Mexican immigrants are good people? Because that’s not what I heard.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 8, 2016 9:27 PM
Comment #411024

“There was never a question because the right didn’t make any claims about those men.”

Because they couldn’t make those claims about those men, Warren. All of their information was readily available to verify. They would have ended up with the same results the left ended up with when they tried the exact same thing with McCain and Romney.

“Each and every liberal agrees 100%.”

No, they do not. In fact, the left’s identity politics revolve around false claims of hatred and intolerance towards those who disagree with them.

“However, Trump has been pilloried as a racist for reasons other than his disagreement with the Left.”

The left labels him a racist, as of now, because of the simple fact that he does not accept and conform to the left’s new definitions on the issues.

“Do you honestly believe, “And some, I assume, are good people” implies that the vast majority of illegal Mexican immigrants are good people? “

I believe what the facts bear out: Illegal aliens bring and create more problems for our country. Some bring drugs, some bring crime, and some don’t.
Personal feelings of illegal aliens being ‘good people’ are irrelevant.

Posted by: kctim at December 9, 2016 10:20 AM
Comment #411029
All of their information was readily available to verify

What information regarding John Kerry or Al Gore was readily available to verify?

No, they do not
Show me.
The left labels him a racist, as of now, because of the simple fact that he does not accept and conform to the left’s new definitions on the issues.
I don’t know what you mean by “accept and conform to the left’s new definitions on the issues”. All I know is that Trump earned his racist label for specific things he did and said and that other people holding similar policy positions and beliefs such as Ted Cruz never received such a label from any mainstream commentator.
I believe what the facts bear out: Illegal aliens bring and create more problems for our country. Some bring drugs, some bring crime, and some don’t. Personal feelings of illegal aliens being ‘good people’ are irrelevant.

Here’s the problem. The facts are that the people bringing drugs and crime are a small (but nontrivial) minority of all illegal immigrants. By misrepresenting those facts, Trump (and you to a far lesser extent) have propagated a racist stereotype.

It is quite possible to be rhetorically tough on illegal immigration without trading in racist tropes, just look at how Bill Clinton handled the issue in the ’90s. He talked about drugs, crime and the border, but he never said anything to unfairly sully the reputations of the over 10 million people who crossed the border without bringing or creating problems for this country.

Posted by: Warren Porter at December 9, 2016 12:10 PM
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