Pardon Hillary

Trump should pardon Hillary. Trump supporters might say that that would let her “get away with it.” Hillary supporters might be insulted because “she did nothing wrong.” We may never be certain who is right but we can be certain that the quest for certainty would be very divisive and very destructive to our country.

Significant distrust and even hatred has grown toward the candidates. It is more a matter of passion than logic and you cannot counter strong passion with logic. No amount of proof will be enough to prove her guilt to Hillary supporters or innocence to Hillary opponents. And the truth is likely to be very nuanced and ambiguous to allow many interpretations even by disinterested individuals.

The only way to win an unwinnable fight is not to fight. Some problems do not need to be resolved. Denial and avoidance are valid strategies when confrontation is sure to be worse. No good can come from further official investigations.

Just draw a line under this and move along.

Posted by Christine & John at November 22, 2016 11:34 AM
Comments
Comment #410365

Innocent people don’t get pardons. Hillary would not accept one if it were granted to her. She is smart enough to know the government has no case to make against her. She was humiliated throughout the campaign and will not vindicate Trump.

No amount of proof will be enough to prove her guilt to Hillary supporters

Actually, there is. If one of the emails on her server contained a document marked Top Secret in the proper manner then it would be very easy to prove her guilt to even the most strident supporters.

And the truth is likely to be very nuanced and ambiguous to allow many interpretations even by disinterested individuals.

Absolutely. But this is ipso facto evidence why Hillary was bound to be acquitted. There was not enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she broke the law. You might like to talk about how a woman with a decade of experience handling classified documents somehow gains absolutely perfect clairvoyance regarding what is classified and what is not.

Leaks to the media suggest to me that Hillary Clinton did not understand that the existence of the CIA’s drone program in Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan was considered Top Secret. She and her aides openly discussed press reports regarding the drone program in an inappropriate forum. However, reasonable doubt exists as to whether a reasonable person should have known that commenting on those newspaper articles was forbidden.

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Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2016 12:19 PM
Comment #410368

Warped, Clinton knew what she was doing was illegal, she is a lawyer and knows how to game the system and plays stupid when she needs to.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 22, 2016 1:04 PM
Comment #410372

Warren

Innocent people can get pardons. I would rather be pardoned for a crime I did not commit than go through a long and painful legal process. Recall also that even an innocent person can be convicted.

There is no way the continued situation comes out well. If Hillary is exonerated, half the country thinks the system is rigged. If she is found guilty, half the country thinks the system is rigged. There is no way to win this game and so the only logical thing to do is not to play, and there is really only one way off the field.

Re proof - if a document was marked Top Secret on a Hillary server, how did it get there? Did somebody just put it there? Did Hillary know it was there?

“media suggest to me that Hillary Clinton did not understand that the existence of the CIA’s drone program in Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan was considered Top Secret.” - I don’t think she could have been that stupid and incompetent. Actually I would prefer to believe she was dishonest. I would have more respect for intelligent dishonesty than such innocent extreme stupidity.

Posted by: Christine & John at November 22, 2016 2:38 PM
Comment #410374

What?!

So we are going to go directly from the accusation phase directly to a pardon? Whatever happened to a charge, an indictment, a trial, and a conviction?

Bizarre.

Posted by: phx8 at November 22, 2016 2:48 PM
Comment #410375

A person can be pardoned w/o having committed a crime. It is like a get out of jail free card. It eliminates the risk of prosecution, false or real.

My own view is that Hillary acted unethically and certainly not according to State Department rules, but I doubt she acted technically illegally, or at least not provable since the type of charges likely are very hard to prove.

If they continue the investigation, they probably will not get Hillary, but they will take down Huma and Cheryl Mills. Perhaps Hillary could show loyalty to them and get them included.

Posted by: Christine & John at November 22, 2016 3:03 PM
Comment #410377

KAP,
Clinton strayed very close to breaking the law, but her lawyer’s instincts kept her from doing so.

C&J,

Innocent people can get pardons. I would rather be pardoned for a crime I did not commit than go through a long and painful legal process. Recall also that even an innocent person can be convicted.
Without an indictment, there’s no threat of “a long and painful legal process”. Accepting a pardon means accepting guilt. Until the right gets its hands on incriminating evidence, Clinton is not going to assist them in sullying her reputation.
There is no way to win this game and so the only logical thing to do is not to play

Republicans chose to make an issue out of this. They made their bed and now they must lie in it.

My own view is that Hillary acted unethically and certainly not according to State Department rules, but I doubt she acted technically illegally, or at least not provable since the type of charges likely are very hard to prove.
This is the truth. For all the improper things she did, none of them were technically broke the law. This is what James Comey told us in July. Another person in her position would have been fired, her security clearance stripped and career ruined, but never prosecuted. Today, Hillary Clinton is headed for retirement and will never be involved with another national security matter again.

The best course of action for Trump and the Republicans to heal the national rift is not to pardon her, but merely to apologize for the damage they did slandering her reputation during the Presidential campaign. All the “Lock her up” chants were a complete farce and everyone knows it.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2016 3:40 PM
Comment #410378

Warren

An investigation would be painful for her and for the country. Better to avoid it for all involved.

The pardon does not imply guilt. Bush pardoned Cap Weinburger who did not believe he had done anything wrong (and neither did Bush).

Re Hillary breaking the law - I doubt they can get Hillary but they can get Humma and Mills. Would Hillary want to sacrifice them for political principle?

Recall the old Polish saying (reverse order) that the law is like a spider web. The big bird flies right through but the little flies are caught.

Posted by: Christine & John at November 22, 2016 3:51 PM
Comment #410379
An investigation would be painful for her and for the country. Better to avoid it for all involved.

The investigation was already finished last July. There’s nothing left to investigate.

An investigation would be painful for her and for the country. Better to avoid it for all involved.
Burdick vs. United States says accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. This was a key reason why Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon. Accepting GHW Bush’s pardon was tantamount to a confession of guilt on the part of Caspar Weinberger. Indeed, the Iran-Contra affair included flagrant criminal violations of laws by top people within the Reagan administration. These people were pardoned, not exonerated.
I doubt they can get Hillary but they can get Humma and Mills
I may be wrong, but I believe Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills were offered immunity for their cooperation in the investigation. Anyway, there’s zero evidence that they did anything that Hillary Clinton didn’t do. Indicting them will not be any easier.
Recall the old Polish saying (reverse order) that the law is like a spider web. The big bird flies right through but the little flies are caught.
Scooter Libby knows this adage well. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 22, 2016 4:42 PM
Comment #410381

It would be a move tantamount to Gerald Ford’s pardon of Nixon, without the benefit of numerous court cases proving something criminal actually happened, and with all the outrage that Trump and others built over Crooked Hillary washing right back on him.

As for that whole discussion of the drone program, that falls under the category of “badly kept secrets.” It’s difficult to argue that a reasonable person should have known it was all classified if much of the information was classified after the fact, and with much of the knowledge public anyways. We really need to be more selective about our secrecy, because there’s no point in putting effort into hiding things that are hardly secret in any real things. Like McGeorge Bundy said, if we protect our toothbrushes as well as we protect our diamonds, we’ll lose fewer toothbrushes and more diamonds.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 22, 2016 5:17 PM
Comment #410382

In my opinion, pardons, like forgiveness, must be asked for by one who is repentant.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 22, 2016 5:20 PM
Comment #410388

Stephen

The thing that annoys me about Hillary is how she just disregard the rules at State and made everybody there look bad.

If anybody else at State had done what Hillary and staff did they would immediately lose their security clearances and doing it repeatedly they would have lost their jobs.

There is a specific rule that nobody can be promoted to senior service if they have such security violations. So the rule is that you cannot even be promoted, but Hillary just disrespected this.

Anyway, Hillary will not resurface. This election has killed both the Bush and Clinton dynasty and that is good. The stink will hang around like a fart in a phone booth, but the Clinton thing is done.

This will also be good for Democrats, BTW. Hillary has been like a big slow truck on a narrow road. She was going slow, but nobody could pass, so the younger generation of Democrats was retarded.

Posted by: Christine & John at November 22, 2016 6:31 PM
Comment #410409
The thing that annoys me about Hillary is how she just disregard the rules at State and made everybody there look bad.

I think a lot of frustration must come from the fact that Hillary Clinton refused to do the two phone shuffle while similtaneously making countless subordinates do so. It was completely hypocritical.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 23, 2016 1:58 PM
Comment #410417

She was not a good Secretary of State. She traveled all over the place and talked a lot but concentrated on the less important parts of her job. She also slept a lot. I know it is considered a Trump dirty trick to say she didn’t have stamina, but my experience was that she was less active than most high level visitors.

I know it is my bias, but it IS my bias to think some things are more crucial than others. For example, security and big economics trump LGBT rights. Yet under Hillary we spent a lot a time on this “international social work”. I used to call them “boutique programs” since they cost a lot of money but reached very few people. When Kerry came in, we got to do less of this kind of crap.

I am glad Hillary will finally be gone. She was not terrible but certainly not the best.

Posted by: Christine & John at November 23, 2016 3:52 PM
Comment #410445

Lock her up.

This compromising of national security is unlike Obama failing to carry out existing immigration law or ‘mandating’ that folks pay for insurance, or not.

It is not Trump’s job to bring charges. This belongs to the attny general.

If Hillary can’t be prosecuted then Snowden or any other person who compromises national communications security should not be prosecuted.

Congress should conduct an oversight hearing to determine what information was made available to the Soviet’s and determine the gravity of the situation.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 23, 2016 8:49 PM
Comment #410446
She was not a good Secretary of State. She traveled all over the place and talked a lot but concentrated on the less important parts of her job. She also slept a lot. I know it is considered a Trump dirty trick to say she didn’t have stamina, but my experience was that she was less active than most high level visitors.

I know it is my bias, but it IS my bias to think some things are more crucial than others. For example, security and big economics trump LGBT rights. Yet under Hillary we spent a lot a time on this “international social work”. I used to call them “boutique programs” since they cost a lot of money but reached very few people. When Kerry came in, we got to do less of this kind of crap.

I am glad Hillary will finally be gone. She was not terrible but certainly not the best.

You are probably right. Thrice in my life I have had opportunities to vote for her and all three times I voted for one of her opponents. I do not regret any of those votes. Now, she will be retired for good and I am happy for that. She’s a smart woman, but far too paranoid to lead the country.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 23, 2016 9:43 PM
Comment #410447
If Hillary can’t be prosecuted then Snowden or any other person who compromises national communications security should not be prosecuted.

…except unlike Snowden, Hillary never broke the law.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 23, 2016 9:44 PM
Comment #410451

Ok Warren, give a name to it. When a classified communications takes place outside a secure facility using a non-secure communications device what do you call it?

Posted by: roy ellis at November 23, 2016 10:02 PM
Comment #410460

A mistake.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 24, 2016 5:42 AM
Comment #410475

Hillary and 10-15 gov’t and non gov’t folks collude to set up a commo system integrating DOS, DNC, Clinton Foundation and other facilities. Done with the intent to hide these communications from public purview. Classified information was sent and received and several entities including the Soviets, were had access to these communications.

A mistake for sure. But carried out with intent and purpose to hide and deceive.

Lock her up.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 24, 2016 3:02 PM
Comment #410592

It was a mistake going 50 in a 30 speed zone, Warren Porter. Did the cop say no reasonable judge would prosecute me?

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 28, 2016 3:16 PM
Comment #410621

Speeding, exactly like that.

Now, Trump seems to be considering Petreus for a high level position in his admin.

I don’t agree with that. Any person who can’t properly handle classified material should not be given a position where a security clearance is required. Especially, a high level position responsible for oversight and handling of classified material for a department.

Also, agree with Kellyann ? that Trump should not reward his antagonists with a high position. Not a smart move at all, IMO. There are so many good people out there.

I’d love to see Trump work to move some of the establishment out over the next few years. Better than than trying to win them over. Fat chance.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 28, 2016 8:41 PM
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