Trump Steams Kristol Dreams

The Trump train has rolled decisively through the Acela corridor. But now, Indiana is no longer a brave last stand by the #NeverTrump forces. It’s the beginning of a brave new world, and like all utopias it seems a little wacky - to not say delirious - to skeptical unbelievers.

Bill Kristol - the head neocon of years gone by - seems to think that a third party can be quickly cobbled together should Cruz fail to put a roadblock in front of the Trump train in Indiana. Because Senator Cruz has come up woefully short in this Acela Corridor Super Tuesday. Trump is heading towards getting as many as 100 delegates in Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and is also cleaning up in Maryland. Despite the odd suburb of D.C.

The actual details of who would lead the Kristol Third Option - or KTO - remains to be nailed down. A tiny matter that still does warrant a little clarity at some point. Seeing the who-they-beg-to-run will be running for president of the USA. Apparently, General James Mattis is still under consideration. Maybe he might agree. Maybe not. If he has any political sense. Unless he heroically agrees to be a sacrificial lamb at the altar of conservative purity. An offering to the gods of expansionist foreign policy; contractionist fiscal policy; and sane choices in supreme court justices.

All good for any conservative platform. But is a hasty third party candidacy that would be doomed to failure and would do precisely what it seeks to avoid - elect Hillary Clinton as president - the right way? It seems a desperate, rushed strategy that's based on hatred of Trump, as much as anything else.

Wouldn't the true conservative acknowledge that a united GOP is the only way to stop Hillary? That independent candidates in a two-party system may help change the platform. But only with another candidate, and in a later electoral cycle.

The other reason listed above, sane supreme court justices, is another matter, and one that does induce some panic. But the question is: could a President Trump be convinced to appoint conservative justices? That's not the same as asking: is Donald Trump a true conservative? For many Republicans, the answer to the latter question is no. For the #NeverTrump crowd, the answer to both questions is no. But they're not the same question.

How much fuss was raised over Jeb Bush's true conservative credentials? Yes, he was a successful governor and has a depth of political experience Trump will never approach. Did that stop Jeb from being a lousy candidate? Nooo ... Is he a true conservative? Not by Tea Party or Libertarian definitions. But clearly had Jeb - in some alternate universe - gone on to lead the GOP primary and win the nomination, people like Bill Kristol would have had a good deal of trust in his ability to appoint conservative judges.

But the voters didn't have that confidence in Jeb. And a lot of them do have that confidence in Trump. So rather than dreaming up third party options with Cleveland a couple of months away, Bill Kristol and others might consider how conservatives and establishment Republicans could ensure their agendas get heard by a Trump White House. And that a GOP Senate does it's job and only confirms conservative judges. Maybe they will later this fall. Right now would be better. After all, they're working off a pretty good basis: the U.S. Constitution.

Posted by Keeley at April 27, 2016 1:18 PM
Comments
Comment #404335

Keeley,

You don’t get it. Kristol and the rest of the #NeverTrump movement have already conceded that HRC is going to win the election. The question they are pondering is what can they do to patch up the party so that it can be viable in 2018, 2020 and future elections. If Mattis or another independent candidate is able to force Trump into third place, it would signal a success for those Republicans who aren’t racist bigots. It would allow future GOP candidates to run without the legacy of Trump’s candidacy weighing them down as much. Otherwise, the Republican party will be married to the ludicrous ideologies of isolationism and mercantilism for a generation. That is a recipe for losing more than just the 2016 election.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 27, 2016 1:36 PM
Comment #404337

WP,
Agreed. The GOP sees the writing on the wall. Trump is going to win the nomination, and stopping him will do more harm that good. It is worth remembering Trump is a one-off candidate. He represents no coherent ideology. I’m not even sure he could be considered an isolationist. Maybe a mercantilist? He is a personality, a tone, a carnival barker who knows how to channel anger and hatred into support for him as the authoritarian strongman who will solve everything… somehow. In any case, Trump will disappear from the landscape after the 2016 general election. It is going to be a landslide for Clinton. I think everyone who follows politics already acknowledges this. The Senate will be gone too, but that was always in the cards just because so many Republicans in vulnerable states are up for election, and so few Democratic ones. The Supreme Court will be lost to conservatism. The House will probably stay in GOP control, thanks to gerrymandering, but even that could be lost if the landslide is big enough.

A big loss by Trump will hurt the GOP and conservatism, but a third party won’t just hurt; it will destroy them. A nomination stolen by Cruz would be just as bad, if not worse.

The only rational approach is to concede the White House and Senate, and concentrate on House seats and state & local races. It will be tough with such a big headwind. Not only will there be no Trump coattails, there will probably be a Trump millstone around the GOP neck. But substantial resources are available, and focusing them on the House, state, and local races could be very effective in weathering the storm. It is really the only way for the GOP and conservatism to survive until 2018 and beyond. As terrible- and funny- as a Trump loss will be, anything else will be far worse.

Posted by: phx8 at April 27, 2016 2:43 PM
Comment #404338

If Kristol gets his wish and someone like Mattis mounts an independent candidacy for President, I do not think it will worsen the situation for the GOP. Sure, it destroys whatever minuscule chance Trump has of winning; however, it also helps alleviate that Trump millstone around Republican necks. In 2018 and 2020, Americans will ask Republicans seeking public office, “why did you support Trumps candidacy in 2016?”. Being able to answer, “To the contrary, I fought hard against Trump in support of Jim Mattis” will give many Republicans the out they need.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 27, 2016 2:53 PM
Comment #404340

An independent conservative candidacy for president would be nearly impossible. The conservative candidates with name recognition all got smoked by Trump. It is a damning indictment of conservatism that the next closest candidate to Trump was Senator Cruz, whose only claim to fame was leading a shutdown of the federal government. He even made an extraordinary appearance on the floor of the House to whip votes for the shutdown. And Cruz did not come that close to catching Trump. Why would conservatives would support a candidate with no name recognition and organization to run a doomed campaign. It would attract single digits in a national election, anger the base supporters of Trump, and just make HRC’s victory that much more complete, while underscoring the weakness of conservatism in all caps.

It looks like conservatives and Republicans are stuck with Trump. A third party run or stealing the nomination from Trump doesn’t make much sense. But I don’t doubt for a second that an awful lot of conservatives and Republicans will stay home this November rather than vote for a buffoon like Trump.

Anger and hatred have driven them to this point. Their irrational and groundless hatred of HRC is just another example of what brought them to this low point. The endless conspiracy theories about Benghazi, the e-mails, Global Warming, fake economic statistics, and so on have resulted in a five star disaster.

Apparently Romney’s loss to Obama in 2012 was not enough. The lesson did not take. Maybe a landslide loss of epic proportions is what it will take to turn conservatives and the GOP back into an opposition party offering worthwhile alternatives. Hatred, anger, bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, and conspiracy theories do not make for a sound political platform.

Posted by: phx8 at April 27, 2016 5:13 PM
Comment #404341

Again, the purpose of an independent conservative candidacy is not to effect the results of the 2016 election. It is merely a vehichle to provide cover for Republicans who want to run for higher office in 2018 & 2020.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 27, 2016 6:14 PM
Comment #404343

Warren Porter, why would GOP incumbents feel threatened by a Trump presidency? Incumbent politicians are re-elected more than 80% of the time. Surely, by now. the establishment has made it known that they are ‘against Trump’.

A 3rd party move or a write-in campaign at this point is beyond the pale.

Hey Establishment, come up with the $19T or get the hell out, your not needed.

Trump has energized voters across the spectrum and will easily win the general barring some unforeseen incident/event.

China sends us ccmputers and we send them hay. What kind of trade is that? It cost more to ship a bale of hay from Richmond to Hampton Roads than it does to ship a bale of hay to China.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at April 27, 2016 9:25 PM
Comment #404344

WP,
Try as I might, I just don’t see how a third party conservative candidacy will happen. Cruz received more votes than any other ‘true’ conservative, and he lost to Trump by a pretty wide margin. So a third party run just doesn’t make sense. Well, time will tell. We’ll know soon enough.

Roy,
“Trump has energized voters across the spectrum and will easily win…”

Not exactly. He has energized about 40% of the GOP. After the convention there will be the usual unifying efforts among the GOP, so that will help some. Hatred of Hillary Clinton will help too, buy the hatred and anger of conservatives is pretty much a given.

However, Trump has alienated a large part of the American electorate, including Hispanics, and most people who are first generation immigrants, gays, blacks, and women. The statement by Trump about HRC tonight gives a classic example:

“I think only card she has is the women’s card. She has nothing else going. And, frankly, if Hillary Clinton were a man, I don’t think she’d get 5% of the vote. The only thing she has going is the woman’s card.”

Seriously, do you know how much that kind of statement pisses off women? It is incredibly insulting.

Demographics alone would doom any Republican candidate in 2016, given their failure to learn from 2012 and make necessary changes to become more inclusive and attract new voters. Throw in a candidate like Trump, an inexperienced politician who routinely alienates large swaths of the electorate with inappropriate statements, along with the likelihood of low voter turnout among conservative Republicans, and the results of this one are baked into the cake.

Look, I understand partisanship. I know you like Trump and the idea of a sort-of third party candidate running. But the idea that Trump will win is delusional. This is an epic landslide in the making, and we’ve almost reached the point where nothing will stop it from playing out.

Posted by: phx8 at April 27, 2016 11:52 PM
Comment #404345
a third party run just doesn’t make sense.

Electorally speaking, it won’t make sense, but from a conscience standpoint. Trump is so toxic right now a good 20 to 25 percent of the GOP will not vote for him. This sliver of the electorate will support a third party candidate. This third party candidacy would be much more about saving face than anything else.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 28, 2016 12:46 AM
Comment #404346

WP,
Where did you find the 20 - 25% number? I doubt it will be that high, although it will surely be significant. But no question, voting for Trump will be a hard row to hoe for many conservatives. Trump is not an ideologue. He is not conservative or liberal. He is a loud, bombastic personality, a guy likely to say whatever pops into his head, no matter how inappropriate or offensive.

A lot of Republicans and conservatives are going to find it very hard to vote for this guy. Rather than support a third party candidate, a lot will just stay home.

How could our country come to this? How could a major party nominate a man so utterly unfit for the White House? Chris Hayes compared it to the outbreak of WWI. Back then, there were miscalculations, and decisions on a small scale that seemed to make sense at the time, but inadvertently contributed to a bad outcome on a much larger scale.

Some of the blame falls on the failure to resist the absurdities and conspiracy theories of the hatertainers on talk radio. They took over. The pundits from “The National Review” and elsewhere turned out to be generals with no army behind them. Their ideology completely failed to appeal the voters, both the Neocon foreign policy and the conservative domestic policy of tax cuts for corporations and the rich. Social religious fundamentalists still command some of the population, but it is limited to the South and some Rocky Mountain states with small populations.

Well, the good news it that it should be a cakewalk into the White House for HRC.

Posted by: phx8 at April 28, 2016 1:16 AM
Comment #404347

“How could a major party nominate a man so utterly unfit for the White House?”

An inexperienced divisive community organizer was nominated. Half the country considered his verbal attacks upon them and the country to be inappropriate and offensive. He won and this miscalculation has led to a more divided and weaker nation. A nation who’s culture and individual freedom’s are under constant attack and disappearing.
His supporters are blind ideologues who deflect and silence with false rhetoric of hatred, racism, bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia etc.

Now, that same party has nominated a woman who chose to use a personal server for official government business, instead of the server provided by the government. She has intentionally lied about this server and what it was used for. She has mishandled classified information.
Her supporters are blind ideologues who deflect and silence with false rhetoric of hatred, sexism, bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia etc.

But yeah, the one to fear is the guy who isn’t 100% politically correct.

Posted by: kctim at April 28, 2016 9:25 AM
Comment #404353
How could our country come to this? How could a major party nominate a man so utterly unfit for the White House?

How could it not after 35 years of conservative ideology being spoon fed to us on a daily basis. I really don’t understand why anyone is surprised at how low a country can sink when subjected to such a barrage of myth misinformation half truths and outright lies for so long.

It really isn’t a big step like walking off a cliff that we are experiencing, It’s more like a slow walk down hill over time that we are seeing, remember they (conservatives) also gave us Nixon, Reagan and GWB since the 70’s. Each one in turn setting the bar lower and lower. Corruption combined with the prevailing conservative mantra of “government is the problem” doesn’t exactly portend to greatness IMHO.

The onslaught of conservative propaganda being preached from many churches, from most of the talk radio stations, Faux news,and the conservative movement has taken a toll over time on the people of this country. Their intent all along was to make government small and… well…. “we the people” seem to have been included in that.

In the 70’s we had dirty tricks from Nixon, Of course the Reagan corruption of government in the 80’s and think about the 90’s and the conservative revolution leaders in Congress. Gingrich, Hasert and a hand full of hypocritical GOP representatives and Senators seeking to impeach Clinton while conducting affairs of their own and in the case of Hasert little boys to boot. Then GWB and the economic depravity of conservative ideology came home to roost.

Corruption and the ideology espoused by conservatives, “the ends justify the means” and here we are making government leaders small. Nope the surprise to me is we expected something different.

Chris Hayes compared it to the outbreak of WWI. Back then, there were miscalculations, and decisions on a small scale that seemed to make sense at the time, but inadvertently contributed to a bad outcome on a much larger scale.

Well Hayes may be right but IMHO we are looking at Germany post WWI, in fact Germany in the late 20’s. I mean Trump is the best candidate the GOP put forth! Cruz would be worse and Kasich is a Millard Fillmore type. What would be worse is we now know in the conservative worldview Fiorina would be just a heartbeat away from the presidency without Trump! Is Trump the equivalent to Hitler? No he isn’t. Cruz? maybe.

But the people who support Trump are like the people of Germany after WWI. Buried in national debt due to the bad decisions of those they voted for but convinced if they just hated the minorities a bit more, if they just had a leader who would attack those they feel are responsible for the bad deal they are getting and so on…. well Trump does that but he just isn’t tyrannical enough he will just lower the bar a bit more.

Cruz on the other hand is dangerous. SO thank God for Donald Trump. He could very well be our next president. HRC cannot pull off the win IMHO. To much baggage, the conservatives have been working her over for 3 decades now and …well just look at the lies conservatives and moderates believe about her. Besides she is establishment and people do not want a Bush Clinton dynasty. The repubs showed us that with Jeb. The dems haven’t picked up on it yet.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 28, 2016 11:38 AM
Comment #404354

kctim,
Thank you for your comment. It does an excellent job of proving my point.

“How could our country come to this? How could a major party nominate a man so utterly unfit for the White House?”

Part of it is the hatred of Obama. From the very beginning conservatives hated him, not because of anything he did, but because of who he was. As a matter of conservative orthodoxy, Obama had to be wrong at all times, under all circumstances. In fact, as shown by statistics and popular votes, Obama has done a good job. Yet conservatives simply could not accept this. They could not oppose based on principle, accept the good results coming from the Obama administration, and recommend better alternatives; no, opposition meant opposing everything.

The longer the Obama administration did well, the more difficult it became for conservatives to deal with reality. They threatened to default on the debt during the debt ceiling fight. They shut down the government. They resorted to conspiracy theories to explain economic statistics that looked good. They denied Global Warming despite an overwhelming body of evidence. Polls were “skewed” because the media was conspiring against them. Ammunition sold out at gun shops. Conservatives were stocking up because they were so sure Obama was going to take their guns away. Didn’t happen, but that didn’t matter. Fast and Furious was a cover up. The IRS scandal was a cover up.

Conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton now abound. Benghazi!!! E-mails! And when nothing happens, it is always the same explanation: it must be a cover up.

So, per the comment by kctim, we see conservative voices becoming shriller and shriller. Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are not the problem! So what if they are not politically correct! It is all Obama’s fault! And Hillary is guilty of… of… something. Never mind. We’ll figure that one out later.

j2t2,
Agreed, Cruz is truly dangerous. But Trump would be a catastrophe too. If the financial markets really truly thought he was going to win, there would be a rush to the exits before the election. People aren’t stupid. The money would fly out of the US as fast as people could transfer their assets. No one wants to see what happens with a trade war, or mass deportations.

Posted by: phx8 at April 28, 2016 12:22 PM
Comment #404356

Phx8,
The only point that has been proven is that you guys are willing to ignore facts and rely on strawmen to form your opinions.

Rather than acknowledge that the majority of people who disagree with Obama do so simply because they reject liberal policy, you blame hatred and tag them as racists.
But yet when a liberal is guilty of something that is actually racist, you bend over backwards to justify it.

Rather than discuss how America has a debt problem, how it is a failure of leadership, and how Americans deserve better, you now spout talking-points about how addressing the problem is unpatriotic.

Rather admit that Senator Obama supported a ban on guns and how President Obama supports legislation to ban guns and ammo, you laugh and look the other way because he doesn’t mean all guns and ammo.

Rather than being upset that our government was selling guns across the border, or that the IRS was used in an abusive manner, you laugh and pretend those things are a-ok.

And now you are doing the exact same thing with Hillary. Won’t vote for her? You are a sexist. State absolute facts such as her lying or of classified documents being found on her private server? Benghazi!!!

There’s a pattern there, Phx8, one that actually answers the questions you asked. But I doubt that you are able to see it.

The country hasn’t come to this point because Conservatives won’t give liberals everything they want, it’s come to this point because partisans such as yourself don’t care about the important stuff, you only care about your agenda. You don’t care about dishonesty or the mishandling of classified information, you care about abortion, special treatment and other peoples wealth.

Your posts here are what proves ‘how a major party could nominate a man so utterly unfit for the White House.’ And why doing so is going to be the norm.

The was no shrillness, no hate and no conspiracy theories in my posts, Phx8. Will your response be logical this time, or will it be another childish attempt at deflection?

Posted by: kctim at April 28, 2016 2:28 PM
Comment #404357

kctim,
You write: “Rather than acknowledge that the majority of people who disagree with Obama do so simply because they reject liberal policy, you blame hatred and tag them as racists.”

According to a recent poll, about 60% of Trump supporters believe Obama is a Muslim. A similar percentage do not believe he is an American. Roughly half of the GOP believes the same. And remember, Trump came to prominence in 2012 for promoting Birther conspiracy theory. I think we can safely conclude all of these people are bigots and racists.

Do you agree?

What about the other 40%? When they threatened to default on the national debt over the debt ceiling debate, and caused US Treasuries to be downgraded by S&P, was that an example of objecting to liberal policy? Obamacare was based upon a conservative program and had often been touted by conservatives in the past as a viable form of reform. Why the rejection? After all, it was NOT a liberal policy, because the liberal policy is Universal Health Care. So why did conservatives vote to repeal it over 50 times without once passing an alternative plan?

Shutting down the federal government proves… What. You tell me.

Gee. Hillary had classified documents on her private server? They were retroactively classified. Oh wait. That’s not what you are trying to imply. You are implying she did something illegal with her server, which is categorically false.

Posted by: phx8 at April 28, 2016 9:23 PM
Comment #404362

Phx8,
Once again, you are using nothing but assumption in order to promote the opinion that you think benefits your politics.

Do your polls ask why somebody believes President Obama to be muslim? Is it because of his full name - Barack Hussein Obama? Is it because Islam was a big part of his life while growing up? Is it because he has chosen to make defending Islam and muslims a large part of his Presidency? Is it simply because of politics?
You have no idea, but yet you toss around the ugliest words possible as if they were fact.

The only thing we can “safely conclude” is that you need all rejection of liberal policy to be about Obama, not the policy itself. The left needs people to wrongly believe that all who disagree are intolerant of Obama himself, rather than the different opinions he holds.

You guys LOVE to toss around the word ‘racist’ but I don’t think you know what it actually means.

racist - a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

The lefts ‘proof’ for this claim is based on nothing but hyperbole and assumptions, not any verifiable knowledge of an actual belief of being better.

“was that an example of objecting to liberal policy?”

Which party says they are for addressing our existing legal obligations, and which party is for adding to those same obligations?
Which party voted in more conservative representatives who had run on addressing our debt limit?

The ACA was a liberal version of an idea ‘touted’ by a conservative group. An idea that was never offered to and embraced on a national level.
It was rejected for many different reasons. Its individual mandate that stripped away freedom of choice. Its costs. The control it gave government.

While liberal policy is UHC, the democratic party still had actual democrats who were not in favor of it. So, as liberals stated at the time, they were going to take what they could and use the ACA as a stepping stone towards UHC.

“You are implying she did something illegal with her server, which is categorically false.”

If classified information was found on her private server, then she mishandled classified information.
Is it illegal to mishandle classified information?

Gee. Hillary was Secretary of State. A position that has access to classified information and deals with it on a daily basis. Classified information has rules and regulations for its handling and strict compliance with those rules and regulations is mandatory.
So, are you saying Hillary, the Secretary of State, did not believe she would receive such information through email? Or are you saying our Secretary of State was ignorant of how to handle classified information properly?

Here’s a question: IF Hillary and all her aides had clearance to classified information, and they all knew the rules and regulation on how to handle it, why didn’t they forward those classified emails found on her server to the proper agency, when they were deleting the yoga emails?

I guarantee that your positions would change immediately if Trump or Cruz were guilty of these things.

Posted by: kctim at April 29, 2016 11:01 AM
Comment #404363

“If classified information was found on her private server, then she mishandled classified information.”

Except that it was not found on her server. When it was pulled from her server and reviewed years later, it was retroactively classified. It was never mishandled because it was not classified at the time.

kctim,
“Do your polls ask why somebody believes President Obama to be muslim? Is it because of his full name - Barack Hussein Obama? Is it because Islam was a big part of his life while growing up? Is it because he has chosen to make defending Islam and muslims a large part of his Presidency?”

Wow. Guess I should save some time and just come out and ask: do you think Obama is a Muslim?

Posted by: phx8 at April 29, 2016 2:28 PM
Comment #404364

GOP front-runner Donald Trump is on track to break the record for having the most primary votes of any GOP candidate in modern history.

According to the New York Post, Trump has received over 10 million votes, which is 200,000 more votes than Mitt Romney accrued in the entirety of the 2012 presidential nomination race.

Election data from the 2008 and 2016 primaries and caucuses show that Democrat turnout has dropped by 20 percent this year, whereas Republican turnout has skyrocketed by a notable 60 percent.

According to Breitbart, during the 2008 battle between then-candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, 23,715,866 Democrats voted in the primaries and caucuses for those states that have already voted this year.

Yet only 19,155,825 Democrats have voted thus far this year in the heated battle between Democrat front-runner Hillary Clinton and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. This means that voter turnout on the left has dropped by 4,560,041 voters.

It is always humorous to read the lib/soc tea leaf prognostications regarding the demise of the Republican Party and Conservative movement. The Right should just throw in the towel and capitulate by not bothering to hold elections.

Unlike our recent nominees; McCain and Romney, Trump or Cruz will not be bashful about using the massive material available to bash Hillary on her complete failure as Sec/State and very ordinary stint as US Senator.

The video material available to Republicans featuring Hillary will dominate the airwaves with disgust for her past lies, deceptions, arrogance, intolerance, and brutishness.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 29, 2016 3:10 PM
Comment #404365
Except that it was not found on her server. When it was pulled from her server and reviewed years later, it was retroactively classified. It was never mishandled because it was not classified at the time.

Ultimately the question is this: Would a reasonable person have considered the information in those emails to be classified at the time they were sent? Because nobody on Watchblog is privy to the content of those emails, nobody here has any definite answer to that question. However, leaks to media have indicated that the retroactively classified emails mostly contain excerpts from publicly available news reports about the drone program. Apparently, the entire existence of the drone program remains a classified secret, albeit a poorly maintained one. I think it would be a terribly bad precedent if HRC were indicted solely on the basis of sharing those news reports, but the decision isn’t mine to make.

Wow. Guess I should save some time and just come out and ask: do you think Obama is a Muslim?
Phx8, you missed the entire point of kctim’s comment. Whether or not he believes Obama to be Muslim is immaterial. Kctim believes that a rational person can think Obama is a Muslim and not be a racist. However, this is wrong as evidenced by the fact that nearly all these Republicans simultaneously display a deep hostility and distrust for Muslim-Americans. Only racially tinged prejudice, leading to belief that Muslims are intrinsically different from others, can lead to that behavior. Posted by: Warren Porter at April 29, 2016 5:12 PM
Comment #404366

RF,
There is no historical relationship between turnout in the primaries and results in the general election. Enthusiasm is always a plus, and it is good that people vote in the primaries, but this is the first time in forever that a fight for a nomination has lasted this long. For once, primaries in many states actually matter.

The contest between Sanders and Clinton was never really in doubt. I know the media loves a horse race, but it just wasn’t that close. The truth is, Trump had it wrapped up when he won so big in NY, but that would not make for a very exciting story going forward.

Polls of Trump v Clinton are nearly useless this far out, but most show it ranging from a tie to an 11 point lead for HRC, with the average @ 8%.

Common sense tells us HRC will win big. The outgoing president has an approval rating of 50%, which is very high for the last year of a two-term presidency. The economy is usually the biggest issue for voters, and we are in one of the longest periods without recession ever. Inflation and interest rates are low, the stock market has been huge for people’s 401k’s, their home values have recovered and then some, and inflation is nearly non-existent. The last ADP jobless claims number was the lowest since 1973. That is a recipe extremely favorable for HRC as she runs for a third term of Obama.

There is very little to put foreign affairs front of mind either. Some people will try to whip up fear of ISIS or terrorist attacks, but there’s not much there to work with.

It is telling how well things are going by looking at the issues that are on the front burner. Although I realize it is very important to some people, immigration is hardly a make or break matter. Sorry. It’s just not. Trade policies? I seriously doubt most people even know what countries are involved in NAFTA. There might be some benefit in pushing resentment of outsourcing or stagnant wages, but the latter quickly turns into an Occupy Wall Street/Bernie Sanders argument for redistribution of income and resentment of the 1%. That argument just doesn’t work for Trump and conservatives.

Conspiracy theories about Hillary are not going to help. No one believes them. The Benghazi Committee will launch an attack around the time of the Democratic convention or else before the general election by releasing their ‘findings.’ They have interviewed some people and refused to let Democrats see the transcripts, and they will not let the Democrats see the report before it is released. It is such an obvious hit job that no one will give it any credence.

Trump, however, will have to defend himself in a fraud case over Trump University. He may have to take the stand. And that is no conspiracy theory. Good luck with that.

Posted by: phx8 at April 29, 2016 5:28 PM
Comment #404370

“Trump, however, will have to defend himself in a fraud case over Trump University. He may have to take the stand.”

I can only wish. It wasn’t even an accredited academic institution let alone a university. It was a real estate rip-off seminar. A late night, infomercial get rich quick scam.

Unfortunately, money talks in civil litigation. Expect a settlement with confidentiality agreement and no admission of liability.

Posted by: Rich at April 29, 2016 6:05 PM
Comment #404371

“There is no historical relationship between turnout in the primaries and results in the general election.”

Ah, yes phx8…I am sure you feel good about the low turnout among the lib/soc voting bloc. Low turnout among this bunch fits nicely with all your ranting about landslides and such. All based upon…upon…nothing but tea leaves and hot air.

“Common sense tells us HRC will win big.” LOL…there is nothing “common” or “sense(ical)” about the soc/lib. Since you rely upon “common sense” it leads us to believe you are winging it with bravado.

“That is a recipe extremely favorable for HRC as she runs for a third term of Obama.”

The recipe you recited makes for good lib/soc reading but it sure as hell doesn’t relate to working Americans. $20 Trillion in debt, the slowest recover after a recession in our history, and more people unemployed who have stopped looking for work in many years. The world has suffered under obama and Hillary’s leadership and policies.

Ask the American people if they are better off today, and safer today, than they were before obama. Many black Americans and legal immigrants are not as dumb as you seem to believe. They are not buying the obama and Hillary bullshit about how much better off they are under the lib/soc brand of tyranny.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 29, 2016 6:06 PM
Comment #404372

“…the slowest recover after a recession in our history”

Considering that it was the greatest financial collapse since the Great Depression, the recovery has been quite steady and remarkable. It is the best recovery in the entire western developed world. Ask the Europeans how all that austerity turned out.

Posted by: Rich at April 29, 2016 6:12 PM
Comment #404373

Rich,
Normally, I would expect the Trump University case to settle, too, but there may some litigants more interested in prosecuting Trump than settling.

It is also worth pointing out that the US is carrying the world economy on its shoulders right now. Other countries are cutting their interest rates. The US will be raising it. That has resulted in a strong dollar and weaker foreign currencies, but anyone using ‘currency manipulation’ as a reason to slap on trade tariffs against such a background is absolutely out of their mind.

RF,
Turnout in general election years nearly always favors Democrats by a wide margin.

If you forget the partisanship and media hype, the numbers make the likely outcome obvious. If each demographic votes the same way in 2016, as it did in 2012, changes in demographics would give the Democrats an additional 1.5%. In 2012 it was 51.01 to 47.15. That is part of the reason the GOP has been so anxious to appeal to the fastest growing demographic, Hispanics, and why there has been so much hand wringing over Trump- he is very unpopular with them. Throw in the identity votes Hillary will draw as a woman, and the outcome is not exactly a mystery.

The national debt is not much of an issue. People don’t see it or feel it in their everyday lives. It did not bother conservatives when Reagan ran it up from 0 to $3 billion, or when George W Bush ran in up with tax cuts and the Iraq War. It’s just not realistic to expect to gain any traction from that issue in November.

The people in the U^ number who are not working now are mostly people who retired, and others who chose to stay in graduate school. The number will increase by 2030 as the population ages. No one who knows anything about economics will buy that argument. Anyone trying to convince you using that kind of argument is only doing it for partisan purposes, and you would do yourself a big favor to ignore them as a source of information. Watch the non-farm payroll numbers if you really want to get a handle on things. The number is volatile from month to month, and is subject to revisions, but it is by far the best and most important one to watch, and it is what the financial markets actually follow.

Posted by: phx8 at April 29, 2016 6:47 PM
Comment #404374
Ask the American people if they are better off today, and safer today, than they were before obama. Many black Americans and legal immigrants are not as dumb as you seem to believe. They are not buying the obama and Hillary bullshit about how much better off they are under the lib/soc brand of tyranny.

Strange, half of Americans seem to believe this “bullshit” regarding the longest bull market in ages.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 29, 2016 6:52 PM
Comment #404377

Royal,

If people don’t think that they are better off today than in 2008, then they simply have serious memory problems. Period.

Posted by: Rich at April 29, 2016 7:58 PM
Comment #404382

Rich,

Good news! Americans’ memory is working just fine.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 30, 2016 10:52 AM
Comment #404383

Interesting poll info. In one conducted in 10 battleground states, 90% of respondents- both R and D- thought HRC would win their state. Polls show them tied in UT and MS. HRC leads in AZ. Estimates range from 358 to 381 electoral votes for HRC.

Posted by: phx8 at April 30, 2016 11:33 AM
Comment #404384

Meanwhile, last Tuesday Senator Cruz not only lost all five state primaries, he lost in every single county in five states. How did he respond? He named Carly Fiorina as his prospective running mate. What does she bring to the table? She has no ability to sway the vote in even one state. She has no political experience. She lost in a landslide in her run for a CA Senate seat, she lost two 2016 primaries by landslide numbers, and only managed to climb out of the single digits in polls long enough to tell a whopper of a lie during a nationally televised debate. Sadly for her, everyone noticed. Shortly afterwards she gave up. That was the last we heard from her until now.

And that is the kind of thinking that is good enough to merit 2nd in the GOP primaries this year.

Posted by: phx8 at April 30, 2016 11:38 AM
Comment #404385

So some of the problems dems will have in the upcoming presidential election will be the work of conservatives at the state level with the voter suppression laws put in place under the tyrannical leadership of conservatives at this level. Combined with the redistricting and gerrymandering these same repub/conservatives tyrants have forced upon the people of this country. The packing and stacking over the years will have its toll on this election IMHO.

When you consider how rigid many Americans are when it comes to what they perceive as what is good for the country the advantage is good for the conservatives this time around. Look at Kansas they reelected Brownback despite his utopia ideology and tyrannical control over the legislature of the state failing to work. The leap to building a wall to keep out the brown skinned people who steal our jobs isn’t that big. They wouldn’t think to look at the job creators who have failed to create the job that pay a living wage.

It seems to me fairy tales work with conservatives and Trump can spin a tale with the best of them. Trump has saved the country from the extremely theocratic ideology of Lying Ted Cruz as well. Now dems may think it may be hard for conservatives, under normal circumstances, to bring up character as an issue in this election but lets face it many conservatives after 7 years still believe the terrorist Islamic/radical Christian myths we call the Obama fairy tales.

My point is this dems, don’t count your chickens quite yet. Facts don’t matter to many conservative Americans anymore and they vote based upon myths as we have seen for years. Dems on the other hand will not be inspired to come out to vote this time around as their choice for president will be a moderate repub if they vote blue or a moderate repub if they vote red. Yes moderate is relative when I say this. It appears this time around the repub voters have chosen moderate over conservative during the primaries.

Posted by: j2t2 at April 30, 2016 11:52 AM
Comment #404388

I am beginning to believe that our Leftie friends will never be old enough to know better.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 12:39 PM
Comment #404389

j2t2,
The voter suppression laws will cause the Democrats problems. Every time I see lines of voters I just marvel at how inefficient and potentially corrupt some states can be. It really is shameful. In Oregon we have vote by mail. It works great. More states are turning to it, but the transition will take a few more years.

Gerrymandering in this day and age should be thrown out by the Supreme Court. The information made available by technology should make it simple to create districts representative of a state’s make-up. Eventually this problem will be solved. But it is sad that conservatives depend on voter suppression and gerrymandering, rather than the strength of their ideas, to improve their odds in an election. It will help them some in 2016, but not enough to save their bacon.

No doubt, a lot can happen between now and November. There can be unexpected events, health problems for candidates, and so on. I think you’re right, that the donor class will soon conclude the White House is a lost cause for the GOP, and they will then concentrate their funding on state and local levels. Spending there can be very effective. It may be difficult to succeed with the top of the ticket dragging Republicans and conservatives down, but still, state and local spending can provide a lot of bang for the buck. Some of those donors will also turn to HRC. Even Trump once gave money to both Hillary Clinton and Ted Cruz. For many of the richest of the rich, it is about access, not promoting an ideology.

Posted by: phx8 at April 30, 2016 12:44 PM
Comment #404390

BOOM! North Carolina Governor EXPOSES petition fraud from HB2 activists

Not surprising how fraud is used by the Left to achieve desired results.

“This is awesome. North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory posted this on Facebook exposing how these ‘professional’ HB2 activists weren’t able to deliver the boxes upon boxes of petitions against HB2”

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/boom-north-carolina-governor-exposes-petition-fraud-from-hb2-activists/#ixzz47KVdOty5

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 12:57 PM
Comment #404391

So sad to hear the libs write about “voter suppression”. They care not to legally protect such a cherished right as voting.

But then, some would open our borders to anyone who can get here and allow them to vote as well.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 1:02 PM
Comment #404392

As the saying goes: “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; and debt is the money of slaves.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 1:16 PM
Comment #404393

Democratic Strategist: Trump Will Beat Hillary Like ‘A Baby Seal’

“Working class whites in the South have already departed the Democratic Party for cultural reasons. Well the working class whites in the North are now deserting the Democrats because of economic reasons,” Mudcat told TheDC. He added, “this is the new age of economic populism, man. This is about survival for a lot of people.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/27/democratic-strategist-trump-will-beat-hillary-like-a-baby-seal/#ixzz47Kbv3Pe6


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/27/democratic-strategist-trump-will-beat-hillary-like-a-baby-seal/#ixzz47KbeyBp8

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 1:20 PM
Comment #404394

Can you spot Warren’s girlfriend in this video?

http://americanactionnews.com/articles/video-loony-campus-liberal-s-epic-meltdown

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 1:27 PM
Comment #404395

Cartels Help Terrorists in Mexico Get to U.S. to Explore Targets; ISIS Militant Shaykh Mahmood Omar Khabir among Them

Obama State Department Hid Key Clinton Benghazi Email from Judicial Watch


http://www.judicialwatch.org/?utm_source=EmailDirect.com&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=4-29-16+weekly+update+Campaign

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 1:38 PM
Comment #404396

RF,
That is nice that Dave “Mudcat” Saunders has feelings about the election and Trump v Clinton in VA. In his state, the only two polls show HRC ahead by +9 and +17. Feelings are good. By all means, he should express them. But I would hesitate to rely on the feelings of Jim Webb’s pollster. There are statistics available. Personally, I will go with them for now.

Posted by: phx8 at April 30, 2016 1:42 PM
Comment #404397

Northern working class whites are not going to help Trump win in Nevada, Colorado, Virginia or Florida. The northern working class whites strategy is only going to be viable if Trump can win in Pennsylvania, which gave Obama 52% of the vote 4 years ago. Now, I am never going to say never, but things look awfully dire for Trump with Obama’s approval inching further and further above 50% with each passing day.

Posted by: Warren Porter at April 30, 2016 2:15 PM
Comment #404403
So sad to hear the libs write about “voter suppression”. They care not to legally protect such a cherished right as voting.

Wow Royal true Reaganspeak from you. The ALEC laws don’t protect this cherished right they prevent people from voting as they were designed to do. It’s sad conservative movement followers cannot comprehend their leaders have to stoop to such tyrannical means to win elections. The movement leadership has told all of us they want less people to vote so they can win more elections yet you refuse to believe it is happening. Time for you to grow up IMHO.

But then, some would open our borders to anyone who can get here and allow them to vote as well.

So how many illegal aliens have voted in elections compared to repubs voting in two states and other illegal acts that these laws don’t cover Royal?

https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

Posted by: j2t2 at April 30, 2016 4:13 PM
Comment #404404

j2t2, I wonder if it ever occurs to the lib/soc that voter fraud is not rampant due to current voter laws?

Einstein said it best…”Only two things are infinite, the Universe and man’s stupidity”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at April 30, 2016 4:30 PM
Comment #404407

RF,
Judicial Watch. That’s quite a source. I did a search on that terrorist Sheikh who is supposedly working with a Mexican cartel. Here is the opening paragraph:

“Mexican drug traffickers help Islamic terrorists stationed in Mexico cross into the United States to explore targets for future attacks, according to information forwarded to Judicial Watch by a high-ranking Homeland Security official in a border state. Among the jihadists that travel back and forth through the porous southern border is a Kuwaiti named Shaykh Mahmood Omar Khabir, an ISIS operative who lives in the Mexican state of Chihuahua not far from El Paso, Texas. Khabir trained hundreds of Al Qaeda fighters in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Yemen and has lived in Mexico for more than a year, according to information provided by JW’s government source.”

You do realize that story is totally nutty, right? Think about it for, oh, ten seconds. We supposedly know all this information, yet nothing has been done because Obama is neglectful and just doesn’t care. I see. A person would have to be g** d***** stupid to bit off on this thing, yet a search shows it was spread all over the right wing blogosphere several days ago.

Seriously, RF. Use a little common sense.

By the way, you provided a link back in January about how Hillary Clinton would be indicted “any day now” over the e-mail server. The story was generated by anonymous sources and reported by FOX News right before the first primaries in NH & IA. The timing seemed designed to damage Hillary Clinton.

So here we are in May, and there is still no indictment. Obviously “any day now” was completely untrue. Care to apologize for linking a story that was false?

Posted by: phx8 at May 1, 2016 12:44 AM
Comment #404408

The thing that amazes me about the Judicial Watch story about ISIS operatives in Mexico isn’t so much that one evil person pushed a false story. There will always be people like that. The amazing thing is that so many people would repost and spread a story that is so obviously false. Do a search about this story and there will be site after right-wing site spreading this story. How could there possibly be that many gullible people out there?

Some of the blame has to be placed on Judicial Watch. When it comes to false stories about terrorists in Mexico, this is not their first rodeo. They pushed a very similar narrative in 2014:

http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/apr/17/judicial-watch/judicial-watch-says-isis-has-camp-mexico-and-near-/

Well. I suppose this explains how a person like Trump could be closing in becoming the GOP nominee for president. Apparently conservatives believe all sorts of wild conspiracy theories, and as long as it blames Obama and Mexicans, hey, it’s all good. Nothing is too outrageous and stupid to be dismissed.

Posted by: phx8 at May 1, 2016 1:52 AM
Comment #404409

warren

“Ultimately the question is this: Would a reasonable person have considered the information in those emails to be classified at the time they were sent?”

Not even relevant. She was trained on protocol for handling classified information, and signed documents stating such. I didn’t know won’t fly. Even if it was unintentional it is still a crime, and should be prosecuted. David Petraeus was prosecuted for a lot less.

Posted by: dbs at May 1, 2016 5:46 AM
Comment #404410

“David Petraeus was prosecuted for a lot less.”

This is an annoying and untrue meme from the right. Petraeus knowingly and willfully took information clearly marked as highly classified from his office at the CIA, sent it via personal email to his mistress who was writing a biography, took efforts to conceal the email transmissions and lied multiple times to the FBI about the matter. In his emails to Broadwell, he warns her that the information is highly classified.

Posted by: Rich at May 1, 2016 9:51 AM
Comment #404411

dbs,

It’s as simple as this: If the documents were unclassified at the time, HRC had every right to store them on her server. In order to indict her, the government needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the documents were classified. The fact that they are classified today speaks nothing to whether or not they were classified yesterday.

David Petraeus was prosecuted for a lot less.

Petraeus intentionally leaked documents marked classified to his mistress. There is simply no comparison. This isn’t just my opinion, but the also the view of Anne M. Tompkins, the woman responsible for prosecuting him.

Even if it was unintentional it is still a crime

I think Dan Abrams has a better understanding of this than you do. Abrams’ says:

The Supreme Court clearly never envisioned a prosecution under the Espionage Act without “intent” to injure the United States and in “bad faith.”

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 1, 2016 9:56 AM
Comment #404415
j2t2, I wonder if it ever occurs to the lib/soc that voter fraud is not rampant due to current voter laws?

Really Royal…”Moreover, these claims of voter fraud are frequently used to justify policies that do not solve the alleged wrongs, but that could well disenfranchise legitimate voters. Overly restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls — which address a sort of voter fraud more rare than death by lightning — is only the most prominent example.”

Einstein said it best…”Only two things are infinite, the Universe and man’s stupidity”.

Yes he did, what is weird IMHO is someone who uses judicial watch as a source of factual information would quote Einstein. But then Einstein wasn’t sure about the universe being infinite while he was sure of human stupidity being infinite wasn’t he?


“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” - Albert Einstein

The issue, Royal, is laws that don’t serve the purpose they are intended to serve, which is what the ALEC laws passed by conservatives in conservative states legislatures do. Instead of asking foolish questions intended to mislead why not address the question directly? Certainly you have some chain email sent to you by some conservative whacko somewhere that can be your source to prove many millions of illegals have voted in elections can’t you?


Posted by: j2t2 at May 1, 2016 11:42 AM
Comment #404416

Coincidentally, an extensively linked article documenting the activities of Judicial Watch appeared on Daily Kos this morning:

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/1/1521857/-The-People-Who-Taught-You-to-Hate-Hillary-Part-I-Judicial-Watch

The owner, Larry Klayman, is a Birther. He proclaimed Obama “Muslim of the Year” for 2015, and Klayman called for Judicial Watch followers “to demand that this president leave town, to put the Koran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up.”

Nice.

Judicial Watch is one of the chief forces pushing right wing conspiracy theories, including “Benghazi, Filegate, Hillary’s email, IRS investigations, ISIS on the Mexican border, Obama czars, Obama’s trips, Ron Brown, Swift Boat Veterans, Travelgate, Vince Foster, White House visitor logs, Whitewater — and anything having to do with Huma Abedin, the Clinton Foundation, Sidney Blumenthal or anyone else closely related to the Clintons.”

As the article notes, the E-Mail issues never targeted Hillary, is not a criminal investigation, and is being conducted by only 12 people at the FBI.

The various conspiracy theories never pan out in reality, but that is not the point. It encourages gullible conservatives to believe Hillary Clinton is untrustworthy and misleading, while blithely ignoring the fact that they are the ones who are untrustworthy and misleading, and facts and reality so clearly demonstrate.

Posted by: phx8 at May 1, 2016 12:35 PM
Comment #404424

Bashing is your forte phx8. Judicial Watch has been very successful in court getting documents released to the public.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 1, 2016 6:22 PM
Comment #404426

“Judicial Watch has been very successful in court getting documents released to the public.”

So? What does that have to do with anything? They spread crazy conspiracy theories. No one would care, but these conspiracy theories are reposted again and again, and no matter how ridiculous, some people actually believe them. The next thing you know, a segment of voters are running around declaring Hillary is untrustworthy and should go to jail because of the e-mail server, and that is wrong. A lot of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim and not actually an American. It just keeps getting worse.

This conspiratorial view of the world is bringing us Donald Trump as a presidential nominee. Do you know what his foreign policy will be when it comes to Russia? He says he will make a deal. He does not say what the deal will be. He does not say whether it will involve the Ukraine, trade and the value of the ruble versus dollar, Global Warming- no one knows what it will involve. Just that he will make a deal. He addresses his audience at a 3rd grade comprehension level. He stepped it up with the foreign policy speech the other day. That was at an 8th grade level. It didn’t even make sense, but for him, that was a step up.

A segment of the population believes all kinds of wild things now- there is no Global Warming, the economic statistics are fraudulent, polls are skewed, the media is out to get the conspiratorial right- and this is kind of thing is bad for everyone.

Posted by: phx8 at May 1, 2016 8:04 PM
Comment #404429
Judicial Watch has been very successful in court getting documents released to the public.

And how exactly does the multitude of FOIA requests serve the public interest? It would be one thing if these documents unearthed truly scandalous things, but instead we get a torrent of emails depicting the mundanities of the life of a Secretary of State. All Judicial Watch does is yell “FIRE!” in crowded theaters. Yelling “FIRE!” is an honorable thing when things are ablaze, but it is truly to despicable to create unnecessary panic at the behest of false alarm after false alarm.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 2, 2016 8:04 AM
Comment #404466

Phx8,

“Wow. Guess I should save some time and just come out and ask: do you think Obama is a Muslim?”

So, rather than simply acknowledge that it is more probable for people to have formed their opinion on something other than racism, you want to move the discussion to me?
Sigh.

President Obama has stated that he is a Christian, so to me that means he is a Christian.
I honestly don’t care one way or another, Phx8.

I find it funny that those who scream religion doesn’t matter, are the same ones screaming the loudest in trying to distance him from Islam. Why, it’s almost as if you guys don’t think your two largest voting blocs, blacks and latinos, take to kindly to muslims. LOL!

Posted by: kctim at May 3, 2016 9:54 AM
Comment #404468

kctim,
Thank you for answering the question.

There are so many crazy conspiracy theories in the conservative bubble. The newest one- new to me anyway- appeared this morning, when Trump spoke about the father of Ted Cruz:

“His father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald’s being — you know, shot. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. What is this, right prior to his being shot, and nobody even brings it up. They don’t even talk about that. That was reported, and nobody talks about it.”

“I mean, what was he doing — what was he doing with Lee Harvey Oswald shortly before the death? Before the shooting? It’s horrible.”

Posted by: phx8 at May 3, 2016 11:34 AM
Comment #404469

At first, I thought this was a joke. Someone was playing a prank. But several outlets are reporting Trump actually said this.

And by the way, for once I will say something nice about Ted Cruz. I admire the way he met with protesting Trump supporters face to face at a rally and talked with them.

Posted by: phx8 at May 3, 2016 11:37 AM
Comment #404470

It’s not everyday you hear presidential candidate suggest the father of his nearest contender was involved with the JFK assassin.

Cruz went off, calling Trump a “amoral” and a “pathological liar,” among other things.

People are going to support Trump for president? Really? Does anyone seriously think this is a good idea?

Posted by: phx8 at May 3, 2016 12:40 PM
Comment #404473

SO Cruz’s dad was involved with the assassination plot on JFK and the media won’t cover it! Just wait till Trump is president he will get to the bottom of it. Time for the nation to heal and all of that. Jeez ya gotta love reality primaries. This is worse than the media neglecting to get to the bottom of the Cruz mistresses scandal. But is it any better than the usual “well if we cut taxes on the job creators they will create jobs”. Inquiring minds wanna know.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 3, 2016 2:01 PM
Comment #404476

How much lower will Trump bring us all down? Is there any bottom to this?

Posted by: phx8 at May 3, 2016 2:39 PM
Comment #404478

phx8, the depth of depravity that we are witnessing is astounding. The depraved indifference exhibited here by our conservative counterparts regarding voting rights, gender equality, and care for their fellow citizens, among other issues, seems to know no bounds or have a bottom. We constantly see glib statements from them that might give sensible individuals a moment to pause and reflect on their comments and their veracity. They do not, they only come back with more vitriol and nastiness.

Trump and Cruz are only displaying the same mentality of their supporters. I haven’t witnessed Kasich being quite as disgraceful but then again he isn’t getting much action in the primary process either.

We shall be subjected to this because they are, after all our fellow citizens and have every right to voice their disapproval and opinions. We would never think of attempting to stop them, but we can only wonder “is there any bottom to this?”. From my experience I can only say, none that is apparent.

To our conservative commenters here, thank you for staying with us here at WB. I know this cannot be easy as you are accosted at nearly every comment any of you make. This again should give you a moment to pause and reflect. I wish you all no misgivings and only hope that you are able to weather this political Malestrom.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 3, 2016 4:06 PM
Comment #404479

Whoops, Maelstrom.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 3, 2016 4:48 PM
Comment #404480

Kctim,

With Trump on the verge of securing the GOP nomination, I find it more difficult each and every day to see how non racist motivations can explain things like this.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 3, 2016 5:55 PM
Comment #404481

Trump is going to be the Republican candidate for president. He may very likely be the next president. The latest Rasmussen poll has Trump beating Hillary. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

I can only guess that all this stupid discussion on Watchblog over the past month about gender bathrooms, etc. is a psychological avoidance mechanism for both the right and the left on confronting this reality.

Folks, it is time to wake up! This country is on course to electing a fascist strongman. Just listen to what he says! It is too late for the Republicans. I fear that the Democrats are in the same type of denial as the Republicans were in six months ago. In fact, many Democrats seem to welcome the match up against Trump. The left should remember the old adage, “Be careful what you wish for.”


Posted by: Rich at May 3, 2016 6:01 PM
Comment #404485

Just got home and turned CNN on. Headline reads “Trump wins Indiana, Cruz drops out”. SO I’m thinking can it be true has Lucifer really dropped out and yes I come to find out he has. Now I can understand the shock you guys are feeling now that Trump is the presumptive GOP candidate for president but I’m thinking Thank God Cruz has dropped out. Look at the bright side guys Trump was the best the GOP had to offer! As scary as many on the left think Trump is Cruz is the real deal he is scary.

But why today I ask? I’m a bit sad as the whole Cruz/JFK thing was such great theater. IMHO it was this over the top mythical conspiracy theory that sealed the deal for the Donald with voters in Indiana. I mean conservatives have never found a conspiracy they didn’t love and the Trumpster gave they more than they could handle.

Maybe it is time for the dems to realize the horse they are running in this race is the establishment that will keep the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Time to perp walk her out in cuffs to face some combination of mythical charges the repubs have “trumped up” over the years. Because if they don’t the repubs will use these myths against her and with Trump leading the ticket well… he linked Cruz to the JFK assassination and knocked Cruz out of the runing in the same day. You don’t really think Clinton is gonna make anything stick to him with the crowd he runs with do ya?

As far as the neofascist claim lets remember Trump isn’t the first repub to talk that talk, movement followers all understand the “it ain’t fascism when we do it” line they have swallowed for years as they have moved farther and farther to the right. So despite being warned they will be Zeig heiling like good little fascist and blaming Hillary for the economy.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 4, 2016 1:49 AM
Comment #404486

Cruz brought up Trump’s 1997 interview with Howard Stern, in which Trump said his battle with venereal disease was his own personal Viet Nam. Does Cruz dropping out mean we don’t get to hear more about this? I mean, it’s not everyday a presidential candidate has fought his own personal Viet Name with STDs.

I can’t believe Trump will win the nomination. The Republican Party has lost its mind. This is not good for any of us.

Posted by: phx8 at May 4, 2016 2:04 AM
Comment #404487

phx8:

Trump reminds me a lot of Hugo Chavez, at the beginning. My friend from Venezuela cautions, “be careful what you wish for”.

I saw the other day that J2T2 thought Trump might beat Hillary. Next November I will vote for Hillary, republican down-ticket, and go outside and throw up.

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at May 4, 2016 9:08 AM
Comment #404488

Trump vs. the Democrat’s version of Jeb Bush. Great!

Posted by: Rich at May 4, 2016 9:10 AM
Comment #404490

What do you care, phx8? Is that fear I see in your comment? All that bravado you spout, but when the rubber meets the road you wet your britches. Ha!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 4, 2016 9:57 AM
Comment #404491

Just as I never, ever believed that President Obama could “destroy the country” as was stated by some of our conservative commenters, I don’t believe President Trump (if that is even possible) could do it. Mr. Trump, if he ever is elected to the office of President, will quickly understand that this presidentin’ stuff is kinda different than anything he has ever tried before. My faith and belief of our country, constitution and citizens would not allow me to be concerned of the havoc that could be wreaked by any one individual although I do share some concern regarding how this might be perceived by the rest of our global partners and enemies. Some early polls indicate that Hillary Clinton would be a dominate favorite in the general election but we have a long time to go before November.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 4, 2016 10:22 AM
Comment #404492

Warren,

“With Trump on the verge of securing the GOP nomination, I find it more difficult each and every day to see how non racist motivations can explain things like this.”

Why would you think ‘non racist motivations’ could explain something that is actually racist?

My comments address the lefts constant insinuations that any disagreement or dislike equates to racism, sexism, hatred etc… How the left lumps all who disagree with them in with the fringe extremes.
How they do both those things strictly for political purposes.

And let’s not try to pretend that the ugliest comments come from only one side.

Posted by: kctim at May 4, 2016 10:23 AM
Comment #404493

With the imaginary threat of a theocracy now gone, it’s time to start with talk of the apocalypse.

“This country is on course to electing a fascist strongman.”

“This is not good for any of us.”

Dun-dun-dunnnnnnnn

The left have lost their little collective minds. LOL!!!

Posted by: kctim at May 4, 2016 10:46 AM
Comment #404494

kctim,

I thought those people on Fox News were just being politically incorrect?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 11:04 AM
Comment #404495

I harbor no great fears of the possibility of a Trump Presidency. Unlike some conservative counterparts who were totally certain that President Obama would “destroy the country” and displayed abject fear and totally surrendered their ability to use logic when quantifying his actions. Believing that this country would be unable to sustain a threat to their precious political ploys is what destroyed them. I expect President Trump would soon discover that being President of the most powerful and respected country that the world has ever known is a little different than bilking students/investors/governments out of $ as he seems to have done his entire career.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 4, 2016 11:05 AM
Comment #404496

Of course you did, Warren. How else would you justify labeling petty politically incorrectness as racism, sexism or hatred?

Can’t really silence all disagreement if you are willing to acknowledge the difference between saying the N-word and saying you don’t support special treatment, can you.

Posted by: kctim at May 4, 2016 11:43 AM
Comment #404497
Can’t really silence all disagreement if you are willing to acknowledge the difference between saying the N-word and saying you don’t support special treatment, can you.

Were we talking about opposition to special treatment or were we talking about people claiming Obama was Muslim?

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 12:30 PM
Comment #404498
I saw the other day that J2T2 thought Trump might beat Hillary. Next November I will vote for Hillary, republican down-ticket, and go outside and throw up.

Teflon Don has a lot of things going for him and it seems both the repubs and dems will help him in his effort to win the presidency. I mean the voter suppression thing should be good for swinging the vote in a couple of states at least. The computer glitches that seem to favor repubs should be good for a few more. The many “first time or not in a long time voters” that have helped Trump keep the country free from Lucifer, Little Marco and Establishment Jeb will hang around to give Trump a few more states.

The “ain’t gonna do it no matter what” repubs and conservative independents will drink the kool aid eventually and vote for Trump when the going gets tough. The anti Clinton crowd will be out in full force. SO IMHO the repubs will unite under Trump and the vote will be close.

The dems have awakened the young guys who Sanders speaks to but they have attitude when it comes to voting for more of the same corporate dems, Hillary won’t get their vote they will go Green or stay home. The blacks will vote Clinton as will Women but many dems are pissed at the failure of Obama to stop corruption or to enact any significant change ala FDR for the used to be middle class.

Hell what is the difference between Obama and Hilary… yes the economy is statistically doing well but many millions of people haven’t seen the wage increase when production increased, what did Obama do about that? He sang the company line- more trade agreements will set us free, more immigrants will set us free and it hasn’t worked out. Companies still have their H1B immigrants. Wages are low debt is high, school budgets are being cut still and the investor class is rubbing in the face of the rest of the country.

SO in other words corruption rules and Hillary can’t or won’t change it. Neither will Trump but many believe he will and he will sell them on it. Hilary isn’t in sales and has a track record. The election will be close and I think we will be saying President elect Trump in November.

Yes we have dumbed down over the years as a country haven’t we. The same repubs/conservatives who give us Trump as the results of their dumbing down effort may be surprised but for the life of me I don’t know why.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 4, 2016 2:06 PM
Comment #404499

j2t2, “failure of Obama to stop corruption or to enact any significant change ala FDR for the used to be middle class”?

What, wait you mean you didn’t get your unicorn pony that Obama promised you?

I am inclined to agree with Rich on this, we need less liberal all or nothing attitudes and more let’s see what we can get done with what we have attitudes. Maybe you should run for office and institute the changes you are looking for?

Posted by: Speak4all at May 4, 2016 2:23 PM
Comment #404500

“Were we talking about opposition to special treatment or were we talking about people claiming Obama was Muslim?”

He11 Warren, I thought we were talking about the difference between labeling honest opinions and politically incorrectness as racism for political gain, and actual racism.

If the addictinginfo link took me off track, my bad.

Posted by: kctim at May 4, 2016 2:29 PM
Comment #404502

Why do you believe that the Republicans who think Obama is a Muslim are simply expressing “an honest opinion”? I think we can be certain that these beliefs are not meant to be compliments.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 4:44 PM
Comment #404505

Warren, I believe that for most people it is more probable that it is an honest or even misinformed opinion, than it is to be actual racism.
The actual racists always out themselves, and THEY are the ones who deserve the tag.

Posted by: kctim at May 4, 2016 5:57 PM
Comment #404506

What amazes me is the inability of the elites of both parties and the pundits to understand the appeal of Trump and Sanders. They are addressing the issues of essentially the same socio-economic group: the middle class. For Sanders, the children of the middle class with huge student loan debt and uncertain employment futures. For Trump, the older middle class with fears of losing jobs at middle age, health insurance costs and retirement income.

Meanwhile, the conservative establishment has been busy shutting down the government over debt ceilings, fighting LBGT rights, refusing to offer any alternative to the “horrible” Obamacare while health costs skyrocket and generally touting their principled, conservative Christian virtues. All along ignoring the practical economic interests of the middle class.

The liberal establishment has not been much better. Riding around on high horses lecturing people on political correctness and minority rights while at the same time colluding with interests that are destroying the economic viability of the middle class. FDR and Harry Truman must have rolled over in their graves seeing Hillary Clinton apologizing to West Virginia coal miners for her remarks about abolishing their jobs. WTF!

Is it too late to run Elizabeth Warren? Her time is now. She has the policy messages, track record, temperament and blunt, direct rhetoric to effectively counter Trump.

Posted by: Rich at May 4, 2016 5:57 PM
Comment #404509
Warren, I believe that for most people it is more probable that it is an honest or even misinformed opinion, than it is to be actual racism. The actual racists always out themselves, and THEY are the ones who deserve the tag.

If it was mere misinformed opinions, Brendan Nyhan would not have found social desirability effects in his research. Apparently, when Republicans believe they are interacting with an African-American, they are more apt to change their opinions and claim Obama is a Christian after been shown corrective material.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 6:37 PM
Comment #404510

Rich,

Personally, I think now is a terrible time for populism, even from the Left. The economy is doing great right now and soon we ought to start thinking about improving the debt-to-gdp ratio. After all, the Keynesian prescription is to run budgetary surpluses in times of plenty in order to prepare for the inevitable downturn that will eventually come.

I know the working class is hurting, but that is mostly a result of increasing automation. The robot revolution is going to cause a lot of social problems and we may have to figure out how to deal with a permanently decreased labor force participation rate as a result. A dramatic re-imagination of the welfare state is going to be necessary, but I really don’t see the political will for doing so as long as people keep thinking that a trade war with Mexico & China will get them their old jobs back.

Posted by: Warren Porter at May 4, 2016 7:11 PM
Comment #404523
I am inclined to agree with Rich on this, we need less liberal all or nothing attitudes and more let’s see what we can get done with what we have attitudes.

Why Speaks? It’s election time and for the used to be middle class how long do you suggest they wait? Trump will tell them why wait lets make America great. Hillary will, make 600k speeches to her Wall st friends and continue to pass laws benefiting those that don’t produce, the banksters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/big-banks-taxpayer-money-subsidy_us_572a4ebfe4b0bc9cb0458b68

Why on earth should we continue down this path? If the dems are gonna be middle of the road republicans while repub/conservatives become neofascist extremist why bother to support Hillary. The difference is small just like our government.

If Hillary doesn’t support a minimum wage of $15 like Sanders why bother going to the polls if you are a working class guy. Australia can do it.

If Hillary continues with Trade agreements that benefit only the corporate class why should the working class vote for her? Trump is willing to kick Chinese a** to make AMerican great again.

The dems have put the working class in the back of the bus for 20 years, they have helped destroy unions while giving tax breaks to companies shipping jobs overseas. How long do you suggest the working class support Hillary? Trump tells them he will make American great again.

Hillary is establishment this election is about anti-establishment. Why continue to wait to be trickled on by the banksters and their politicians.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 5, 2016 1:11 AM
Comment #404528

j2t2, then what is your proposal as a way forward for you? Your protestations seem no different than what I have been hearing for years. You are upset about things that you seem to yourself say you cannot change. If you espouse this predilection for a perfect government I would suggest that you should have gotten more involved in the governing process a long time ago. You did not, I did not. You could have made a decision years ago. Built your power and wealth to attempt to initiate the changes you see as necessary, using those tools. That power and wealth are the tools necessary to accomplish those objectives may be exactly what upsets you about the way things are. Perhaps you should look to yourself and your ambitions rather than kibbitz here about how bad it has always been and will be.

Rich, my beliefs are that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren are exactly where they should be and I would not like to see either of them leave the Senate for any political position. We need them right where they are. You don’t replace either of them with just anybody, in my opinion they are irreplaceable. If either Clinton or Trump is elected President we need people like Sanders and Warren to either support President Clinton and push their ideas to her and the rest of the country while helping her confirm SC justices and legislation that will help their and our causes. If President Trump is elected then we need Sanders and Warren even more so to help the Senate exhibit the power of the legislative branch of our government to tamp down the ideas and policies that they see as damaging to our causes, much like Republicans have done for the last 7 years.

I just get tired of hearing whining and braying all the time about how terrible our government is and has been. If you don’t like it you know you should have gotten more involved a long time ago. I also understand that a forum such as this is designed for us to do discuss just that and hope you don’t take any of my comments as an effort to undermine your proclivity to chastise our leaders or government. But we need to remain realistic.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 5, 2016 9:55 AM
Comment #404529

J2,

“If the dems are gonna be middle of the road republicans”

The actual facts answer all of your questions.

Hillary does not hold any position that is to the right of what she has held in the past. In fact, she has moved even further left on many issues.
As of now, she understands the ridiculousness of a $15 min. wage and the dishonesty in making false promises of free education, healthcare etc…
She understands that trade deals, taxes and unions are part of the juggling act that must be done when dealing with business.

Fact is, Republicans, democrats, our courts and our government have moved our country much much further left than it was a mere 20 years ago.

Now, I’m sure you disagree, but I mention it because the majority of people don’t buy into the “neofascist extremist” and “banksters” type of nonsense and they will not blindly jump head first into the leftist abyss.

Hillary and the majority of Americans are evolving with the nations shift to the far left. To claim this makes them “middle of the road republicans” is just downright silly.

Posted by: kctim at May 5, 2016 10:26 AM
Comment #404531

If you espouse this predilection for a perfect government I would suggest that you should have gotten more involved in the governing process a long time ago.

I’m not suggesting perfect anything Speaks. But more of the same, why bother? You know I have kept up on politics over the years and voted for the lesser of two evils many times as well. But if you are suggesting I should have been a politician its disingenuous IMHO.

You did not, I did not. You could have made a decision years ago. Built your power and wealth to attempt to initiate the changes you see as necessary, using those tools.

Yes I could have been the problem Speaks but why? I am a blue collar guy not a financier. I am happy with that. I have had a good run but I speak more for the generations coming up now who IMHO us baby boomers have let down. To think that I should have built of power and wealth to unduly influence politicians at the expense of others is… well…. kinda sad Speaks.


That power and wealth are the tools necessary to accomplish those objectives may be exactly what upsets you about the way things are.

Well yes power and wealth to unduly influence our republic when we can see the damage that power and wealth has done to democracy. No thanks.


Perhaps you should look to yourself and your ambitions rather than kibbitz here about how bad it has always been and will be.

Jeez is this a self improvement site or a political opinion site Speaks? Just because I don’t think Clinton is the answer it is my problem ? I don’t think so.

I also understand that a forum such as this is designed for us to do discuss just that and hope you don’t take any of my comments as an effort to undermine your proclivity to chastise our leaders or government.

Well it is what you said isn’t it? I have commented her on WB for we few years Speaks so I’m pretty sure you have a good idea of my opinion on government. That being said the dems have changed, IMHO due to the influence of the power and wealth you suggest I be part of. Why shouldn’t I call them out if I disagree with the changes. Neither party should get a free ride. When they do we get the entitlement class I call banksters.

But we need to remain realistic.

I consider it to be burying my head in the sand were I to not opinionate on Hillary and why I do not want to vote for her. She doesn’t help those I want to see helped politically. Do I expect her to stand up to the power and wealth that would force income taxes on the poor so the rich can “create jobs”, rid us of Medicare and Social Security? Yes I do. Does she? I don’t think so she accepts $600k a speech to talk to them and you can’t serve two masters. That is realistic IMHO.

I also think many have said “oh just vote for the lesser of the two evils” but I’m thinking many people are tired of sitting in the back of the bus waiting for a turn to drive when the turn to drive never comes.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 5, 2016 11:55 AM
Comment #404533
Hillary does not hold any position that is to the right of what she has held in the past. In fact, she has moved even further left on many issues

Don’t you think she has “moved left” only because Sanders is still in the race”? IMHO Kctim she is to the right of Eisenhower. SO moderate repub isn’t to far off is it? BTW I’m not trying to insult her when I say she is a moderate repub.

As of now, she understands the ridiculousness of a $15 min. wage and the dishonesty in making false promises of free education, healthcare etc…

But it isn’t ridiculous kctim the higher minimum wage works in Australia. In Europe the funded education works so does the healthcare. To say it isn’t feasible is saying we have to have a military bigger than the next 12 military for defense! Now that is ridiculous.

Fact is, Republicans, democrats, our courts and our government have moved our country much much further left than it was a mere 20 years ago.

Oh puleeze kctim, I have lived here the past 20 years you need to run that line on someone much younger.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 5, 2016 12:08 PM
Comment #404536

j2t2, “I’m not suggesting perfect anything Speaks.” No you are not. I have no idea what you are suggesting other than you are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore?

If you consider politicians as the “problem” then what way do you propose for yourself to be placated? You seem to say you are happy where you are but again, you are mad as hell and are not gonna take it anymore?

Power and wealth are the tools necessary to attempt to change anything you speak of(you and I did not invent this it is part and parcel of living in our country). What is the alternative? You either attempt to acquire power and wealth in order to attempt to change something or you piss and moan on a forum such as this that you are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore?

I have no idea what your problem is but doubt that it really has anything to do with Hillary Clinton. Refer to the last sentence in the previous 3 paragraphs for my take on your problem.

I have read your comments on this forum for many years and respect most of what you espouse however when all you do is say you are mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore I have to think you don’t seem to espouse much else.

I would hope you understand that I don’t really care who you are voting for and don’t consider it my responsibility to convince you to vote for anyone I support. I enjoy reading posts and comments and will continue to do so. Our discussion about this seems as futile as the long drawn out discussions you have with kct that never really go anywhere other than an opportunity for you each to vent. Most of the time I just scroll through those.

If you are as mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore, all I suggest is you do something about that, but don’t scold me for pointing out your inconsistencies. I mean you no harm.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 5, 2016 12:38 PM
Comment #404540

J2,

Hillary was to the left of most democrats back during Bill’s run. She ran even further to left of those democrats and was elected a Senator. She ran in 2008 on a liberal/democrat platform. As SOS, she openly voiced her support for President Obama’s liberal platform. As a Presidential candidate she has vowed her support of the liberal position on almost every single issue.
To say that she has moved left only because of Sanders is silly.

“I have lived here the past 20 years you need to run that line on someone much younger.”

It is fact, J2.
Our government is larger, more intrusive, and infringes on more of our rights, than at any other time in our history. A strong centralized government destroys more and more of our states governments with each passing year. Our taxes are punitive and our burden has become obscene.
Other than a few examples on trivial things like abortion requirements or bathroom use, what is it that makes you think the country has moved anywhere closer to the right?

Posted by: kctim at May 5, 2016 2:36 PM
Comment #404541

kctim,

This country was much more liberal in the period of FDR through the Nixon administration. Many, today, consider Sanders a far left extremist. In reality, his analysis and proposals are not extraordinary relative to FDR or Harry Truman. Read Truman’s “Fair Deal” and his call for national health insurance.


Posted by: Rich at May 5, 2016 3:53 PM
Comment #404543

Rich,

Legislation, not the idea’s, analysis and proposals of individuals, is what moves a country further to the left.
With the passage of each act and creation of each program, the country moves further left than it was before.

Include the fact that legislation targeting individuals and social issues has been going full steam ahead for the past 2-3 decades, and there is simply no question that we are further left today than we were yesterday.

Posted by: kctim at May 5, 2016 5:41 PM
Comment #404551

Rich, do you know why this country was much more liberal during the period FDR thru Nixon?

This country was much more liberal because it enjoyed being on top of the world. It was getting fat and happy on the spoils of war. The U.S. wasn’t in ruin, the rest of the world was. We had no where to go but up.

Half a century later we’re trying to buy our place in the world using the petro-dollar and our military. We’re trying to hold onto something our fathers took for granted.

I asked d.a.n a question once. He said, “We’re going to suffer”. I asked him a question:

On a scale of one to ten, one being dead bodies in the streets laid out like cord wood, ten being the loss of the Obamaphone. What do you expect?”

d.a.n said he expected a 5. Cell phones laid out like cord wood in the streets.

My neighbor said he hasn’t seen an election like this in his lifetime.

I said it looks like Abraham Lincoln’s election before the civil war. My neighbor is a History teacher at one of the local schools. He didn’t disagree with me.

What do you think will happen if Donald Trump gets elected?

Will Hillbilly’s supporters lean back and say elections have consequences? I don’t think so.


Posted by: Weary Willie at May 5, 2016 10:56 PM
Comment #404552

I just saved hundreds and thousands of lives by saying that.

If I hadn’t said that, lives would have been lost.

Thank God, Weary Willy! Our Savior!

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 5, 2016 11:11 PM
Comment #404558
This country was much more liberal because it enjoyed being on top of the world. It was getting fat and happy on the spoils of war. The U.S. wasn’t in ruin, the rest of the world was.

Actually the country was more liberal during this time frame because conservatives were thrown out on their a**es after Hoover led us into the great depression and then adhering to conservative principles did nothing to fix the problem.

FDR saw us through the great depression, the dust bowl and WWII, hardly “getting happy on the spoils of war” Truman carried on and continued with liberal policies that included the Marshall Plan to help the rest of the world recover from the effects of WWII. Eisenhower was the typical repub of the 50’s and he wouldn’t recognize the conservatives of today IMHO.

“Today in America unions have a secure place in our industrial life. Only a handful of unreconstructed reactionaries harbor the ugly thought of breaking unions. Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join the union of their choice.”

Speech to the American Federation of Labor, New York City, 9/17/52

https://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/all_about_ike/quotes.html

Contrast Eisenhower with GWB or the current crop of Tea Baggers in the Congress, Cruz or Trump or Palin.

The mindset of many Americans today is farther to the right than it has been since the late 20’s. Which BTW was called the roaring twenties in part due to the stock market going ever higher and the good times of that era. Until of course conservative policies brought us into the great depression. Sounds to me like the GWB era and the economic crash of 2008.

Here is a list of how we voted over the years. The trend is of course to the right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses

SO While you sand kctim try to convince us the conservatism is the answer we can see it is the problem and as I previously stated the country has shifted to the right in the late 70’s and has continued to go farther to the right over the years.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 6, 2016 11:21 AM
Comment #404588

“ten being the loss of the Obamaphone”

Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back Willie there is no such thing, and there has never been any such thing as an “Obamaphone”.

It’s a myth.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at May 7, 2016 1:27 PM
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