The sh*t sandwich verus sh*t on a shingle

I dislike Hillary Clinton with a passion and have done for more than 20 years. BUT I think Trump is nuts and unqualified to be president. I had determined not to vote, but that is cowardly. I have now decided that the sh*t sandwich (i.e. Hillary) beats sh*t on a shingle, since at least you get a little bread to soften the taste. If Trump is the Republican nominee, I will take a deep breath, hold my nose and vote for Hillary Clinton.

I hope and pray it does not come down to that sh*t choice.

Trump could be a useful force. It is sometimes healthy to have a mad-man who can tell the truth to power. Trump has done a good job of surfacing anger. I enjoy watching him say politically incorrect things and getting away with it. We all would like to give the middle finger salute to the grievance industry. Trump is amusing like the obnoxious old guy who gives crap to the cool kids. But you don't want that guy as president.

Hillary is a horrible candidate. The reason she is minimally more desirable than Trump is that she is old, tired and out-of-it. She will run the country the way she ran the State Department, i.e. poorly but not energetically. Most things went on w/o her bothering them. Hillary traveled a lot and gave lots of speeches, but she left no lasting imprint. Her damage was limited to places she visited. This is NOT a good way to run an organization or a government. But we have a choice between low-energy Hillary who will wander slowly in the wrong direction and someone like Trump who has the energy to run quickly and deliberately the wrong way.

So the sh*t sandwich wins.

Posted by Christine & John at February 17, 2016 11:04 AM
Comments
Comment #402679

I felt the same way, until she started with the calculated lying to cover her a$$, and to out progressive Sanders.

Posted by: kctim at February 17, 2016 12:55 PM
Comment #402680

We are currently in a sh*t storm. Hillary is a habitual liar and a bad leader. I am counting NOT on her virtue but her faults. She is tired and distracted. She will do less damage than the more energetic Trump.

Posted by: C&J at February 17, 2016 1:00 PM
Comment #402682

Voted for her in 2008 and will vote her again on Saturday in the SC primary. The combination of a Clinton White House and a GOP Congress offers the best hope that the political system can at least function again. To put a populist in there, with no chance at reforming the rest of Washington, IMO is just wasting 4 years that we don’t have.

Posted by: George in SC at February 17, 2016 1:29 PM
Comment #402683

Seems to me the problem is even larger than you allow C&J. The sad fact is Trump is the best candidate currently running on the repub side of things. Despite his lack of experience and cavalier attitude towards politics he is the best the repubs can bring to the table.

It wasn’t to long ago you guys espoused the benefits of a businessman running the country and Trump is a businessman and perhaps a better choice than the other businessman you guys told us would be good for the country, good ol GWB. Hell even with his record GWB looks better than any of the repub candidates excepting Trump. What does that say about the GOP and their platform?

Posted by: j2t2 at February 17, 2016 1:39 PM
Comment #402684

You are sadly mistaken if you believe Hillary is “old, tired and out-of-it.” She is an experienced political juggernaut, she knows what her base demands and she will work tirelessly to give it to them.
You guys would be crazy to underestimate her and the negative impact she will have on the country.

Posted by: kctim at February 17, 2016 2:00 PM
Comment #402685

j2t2

Trump is a reality show star who inherited a pile of money and managed - with the help of three bankruptcies - not to lose it.

He is not the best the GOP can offer. We had successful governors running and Kasich is still the best on offer. In fact, Trump and Cruz were the worst alternatives.

What is says about the GOP is that around 30% of those who will go to primaries support Trump. It says that anger trumps reason. This also is true of Democrats. Bernie is approaching 50% among Democrats. He is as unfit to run the country as Trump and his anger is similarly misplaced.

Hilliary is horrible. He saving grace is that she is old and tired, so she might do less damage. That and she does an excellent small-dog imitation. Maybe it is in character.

Posted by: C&J at February 17, 2016 2:02 PM
Comment #402690

“It says that anger trumps reason.”

The American electorate is angry…that doesn’t make them stupid as C/J apparently believes.

What is stupid, is to help elect another Clinton with the hope that Hillary is too “old and tired” to do much damage to our Republic.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 17, 2016 4:11 PM
Comment #402695

C&J,
Personally, I would agree that Kasich is the best the field has to offer, but right now he lacks the resources to stay in the race much longer. The SC primary may end it for him.

Trump and Cruz are horrendous candidates, but it would be difficult to name them the two worst ones, given the presence of Carson, and former candidates Fiorina. Trump, Cruz, and Rubio are verbally engaged in a circular firing squad, calling each other names and making it abundantly clear that none of them should ever be allowed anywhere near the White House. Never mind their policies- these guys cannot even conduct themselves in a dignified manner. It is disgraceful. They behave like so many internet trolls on a stage, calling each other liars and engaging in personal attacks, all the while telling outright lies themselves. The media loves it, of course, because it is entertaining to watch grown men in suits yelling at each other, but it is terrible for our political system.

I’m with Hillary Clinton. She is not perfect. Definitely not. But she is the best candidate out there. I like the fact that she is not an ideologue. She doesn’t wear her faith on her sleeve, which I find particularly obnoxious in a politician. She is careful, experienced, and competent. She usually conducts herself in a dignified manner. IMO she is too hawkish and too close to the Big Banks, but at least she calls for repealing Citizens United.

Posted by: phx8 at February 17, 2016 5:22 PM
Comment #402698
So the sh*t sandwich wins.

MMMMmmmm, Bread.(see The Thick of It, well, the deleted scenes on the Dvd collection.)

Posted by: ohrealy at February 17, 2016 5:57 PM
Comment #402702

Hillary is liar, and a criminal. On what planet does a vote for her make any sense. Elect a Democrat and the scotus is gone for the next 30 years. Subversion of the constitution will be complete.

Posted by: dbs at February 18, 2016 5:43 AM
Comment #402716

Everyone I supported for the Democratic nomination has dropped out, so I am planning to vote for Sanders if he is still running in April. It isn’t that I think he’d make a good President, his spending priorities would be catastrophic for the national debt and I do not think taxes should be as high as he proposes. Rather, I am voting strategically. A Trump v. Sanders race would induce Michael Bloomberg to run and I admire the work he did managing New York City.

Posted by: Warren Porter at February 18, 2016 12:52 PM
Comment #402733

Voting for a third party candidate in a general election is political suicide.

Posted by: dbs at February 18, 2016 4:19 PM
Comment #402734

dbs, how would a 3rd party ever get started if a few folks aren’t willing to ‘throw their vote away’ for a cycle or two?

Rubio was just on explaining why the US must get the cost of operating corporations down if we want to keep jobs on this side of the ocean. Yup, lower tax rates, deregulation, and a host of freebies for the corpocracy.]

I prefer working to force corporations overseas, fight like hell to keep them from returning and get on with the work of busting up the big ones and starting new corporations. Especially in the areas of bio-med, bio-science, aeronautics and space and similar.

Same for the ISIS lovers. I believe we should encourage all ISIS lovers to go over for a tour. Pay for their food and travel to the area, buy them some camo clothing, boots and so on - - - get them over there in one big area where we can smoke them when Trump is ready to do the job.

Otherewise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 18, 2016 4:33 PM
Comment #402735

I went to see Nate Silver talk. He is the guy who runs the 535 Blog and is the most accurate predictor of elections.

He says that Hillary still has the best chance of being president and Trump has the best chance of facing her. Of course, he says it still is a long way away.

The interesting side-fact is that this would be the first time that two candidates faced each other that are BOTH disliked and distrusted by the majority of Americas. Both has negative ratings. Usually, at least one of them is liked by at least half the people. We truly are looking at a crappy choice.

On the bright side, MOST Republicans still do not like Trump. In a one-on-one race, Rubio beats Trump and Rubio beats Hillary. Maybe the GOP will get together and nominate him and we will have a decent choice.

Rubio, IMO, is a little too young and too inexperienced, too much like Obama in that way. But considering our experience with Hillary and Donald, I will choose hope.

Posted by: C&J at February 18, 2016 4:38 PM
Comment #402759

Somehow, I don’t feel yore pain, C&J. I do agree that Rubio is young and inexperienced. Since he has flipped on immigration I don’t believe he is serious about a wall.

I don’t follow politics close enough to know who voted for what. I just know that it’s been 30 years since Regan’s amnesty and a promise to ‘secure the border’.

I don’t believe Trump can get a wall built either but, he might be able to create dissension among the establishment and force some pols to go on the record against the wall. Is Jeff Sessions for or against the wall, I just dunno?

Trump clearly has more energy to give to the position and he checks all the populist boxes; China and others ripping us off on trade, the wall, speaking truth to power (Pope), economy, ISIS, and similar.

By speaking on Bush’s Iraq war he is checking the moderate box as well, doesn’t seem to be an ideolog with a one track mindset.

We don’t know how Trump would govern but i am more comfortable voting for him than I was for the President. I am really narvous with ten more months to go with this President. More stuff is hitting the fan everyday.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 19, 2016 3:32 PM
Comment #402766


So now Trump is calling for the boycott of Apple until they unlock the phone of one of the shooters in San Bernardino.

Sorry Don, we here in this country have this thing called a Constitution, you may have heard of it.

Roy,

Truth to power over the Pope’s comments?

“I say only that this man is not Christian if he has said things like that,” Francis said. “We must see if he said things in that way and in this I give the benefit of the doubt.”

In typical Trump fashion his response was all bluster and bulls**t.

Trump doesn’t have a circumspect bone in his body.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at February 19, 2016 8:07 PM
Comment #402767

Well, what about the Vatican wall, Rocky? There the folks go thru gates which is what Trump and a lot of folks are asking for.

I thought the wall response was from fast thinking Donald but, Rubio used that phrase a week or so back and perhaps earlier than that.

I like the idea of keeping religion and foreign input out of our election process to the extent possible.

I venture that 99% of the pols would have responded to the Pope in much blander terms; ‘well, we are sorry he feels that way’ or something to that extent. I’m not alone in that folks are tired of being politically correct and letting it slide.

I remember well when Bush brought the oil execs to the WH prior to calling for ‘shock and awe’. IMO, it was more about oil and less about WMD’s that got things rolling.

Trump is able to think beyond a perceived problem. I would like him to propose redrawing the lines in the ME to give autonomy to the major tribes. Maybe over a century or so they can learn to integrate, live closer together.

I just can’t see the ME accepting any nation building we might do as a long term solution.

Mexico should be ashamed of the way they have operated their northern border. I would like to see Trump build a wall and make MExico pay for it. Take it out of their sorry hides.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 19, 2016 8:43 PM
Comment #402768

Roy,

“Well, what about the Vatican wall, Rocky? There the folks go thru gates which is what Trump and a lot of folks are asking for.”

Yes but they are pretty much free to come and go as they please.

” I’m not alone in that folks are tired of being politically correct and letting it slide.”

Excuse me?

There is a vast difference between being “politically correct”, and being a crass a**hole. As I said, Trump has no filter, he has no couth.
There are ways to do things and Trump is apparently above such things.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at February 19, 2016 9:32 PM
Comment #402769

Rocky, I cut Trump some slack as he is a dyed in wool New Yorker.

I have a feeling you may be for open borders. Can we not discuss this wall around the Vatican? Were folks wrong down thru the ages to build walls around their cities?

Can we discuss how one might invite immigrants into the country legally? How might we minimize the drug trade? How might we stop the smuggling of people across the border?

What nice words would suffice to stop all that? I think you are being too hard on Trump. Would it help if he started out with ‘I am a Christian but - - -?

I’m willing to give Donald a pass for his cussing and blunt talk. I put the onus on the Mexican and US gov’ts for all that is wrong at the border. Corpocracy at it’s finest, IMO.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 19, 2016 10:01 PM
Comment #402770

Roy,

“I cut Trump some slack as he is a dyed in wool New Yorker.”

I couldn’t care if Trump was from Mars. I haven’t cared for the man since long before he was a “reality” star. As a point of fact, “reality” star is an interesting label for Trump as there is nothing real about him. The man’s a fake, a phony, a charlatan.
It doesn’t matter a whit whether he is a Christian or not.

He’s Donald freaking Trump, and you’re not. He has an ego the size of all outdoors, and it’s all about Trump all the time.

Perhaps I’m getting my point across? There is nothing about Trump that I would want, including his money.

You want to discuss the Vatican Wall, fine, but Trump, contrary to what he would have you believe, isn’t going to save anybody, or make them any safer with his mere presence.

Rocky


Posted by: Rocky Marks at February 20, 2016 10:16 AM
Comment #402774

Rocky, I am not expecting or looking for Trump to accomplish anything during his likely term of office. He and his ‘business associates’ may ‘rob’ the federal coffers with their ‘business deals’.

IMO, Trump will be no better or no worse than others who have gone before; NIxon, Lincoln, etc.

I just would like him to bully pullpit in the same vein as his campaign. Border fence, negotiate better deals than NAFTA and all the AFTA’s, remove ISIS from the playing field, work to bring some jobs and companies back to the US, pay down on US debt, stand up to Russia/China/NK/Iran and similar.

Just get in the face of corpocracy and talk about how we might win. Two wars, $5T down the tube and we are worse off in the ME than before ‘shock and awe’, IMO.

You would think establishment/corpocracy politicians would be too embarrassed to campaign or seek re-election. Not so. They are very proud of their accomplishments; NAFTA and all the AfTA’s, open borders, almost achieved the North American Union, broke the back of the middle class while pushing up the monopolies/conglomerates to where 1% owns 40% of everything. Endless.

I will be happy if he just gets in their, leans back and puts his boots on the desk and repeats over and over that ‘American is going to win again’ and so on - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 20, 2016 2:08 PM
Comment #402812

Roy,

“I just would like him to bully pullpit in the same vein as his campaign.”

Seriously?

And that’s the best you can do?

Here’s the part that amazes me. For the last 7 years the right has bitched, whined, moaned and complained about the President’s lack of “Constitutional” skills.
Trump, however, makes Obama look like Jefferson by comparison, and this is the right’s new “goto” guy?

If you listen to Trump supporters they are certain the Trump is the real deal, that he is going to build a wall, that he will defeat Isis just because he is Donald Trump.
A pastor on the Sean Hannity show all but demanded the Pope apologize to Trump for questioning his “Christianity”.

A wise person once said;
“Fools and fanatics are certain, a wise man has doubts.”

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at February 21, 2016 4:59 PM
Comment #402815

Rocky, it does sound kind of insane. One could suggest it stems from poor communications, an uninformed populace and similar.

For example, let’s use the OJ case where OJ can’t get the gloves over his hands and the lawyer said something like ‘if it don’t fit, acquit. When anyone old enough to serve on a jury looks at that scene they would immediately know that anytime water gets on dress gloves they shrink up bigtime.

Such stuff leaves folks wondering about the jury, the lawyers, the courts system. All of them are suspect.

I was alright with the established corpocracy until it became apparent that after Regan’s amnesty the border would remain ‘unsecured’. Then came Clinton with globalism and NAFTA. I and many folks thought it was wrong for companies to shut down operations and move overseas. I have always believed the right way to ‘globalise’ was to send NGO
s overseas to work toward incubating development. Companies could be given gov’t funded projects to do the same. I see globalism and NAFTA as a way for US companies to get overseas and grab as much ground as they can before the countries can develop themselves, native ownership and so on - - -

Corpocracy has worked to wrap themselves in the flag, saving the world, bring millions out of poverty and so on - - - while at the same time calling for immigration to the US where few jobs existed. With full gov’t complicity and legislation corpocracy has won all the marbles, 1% owning 40% and so on - - -

The folks have allowed this to happen by berating gov’t while voting to keep their reps in office, over and over and over - - -

This is as clear to me as why OJ’s gloves shrank. This cycle it seems the folks might be coming to their senses. The silent majority might be waking up.

Just as clear that one person, however high in office can’t really change the corpocracy which has been ingrained in gov’t for a couple of centuries. But, should Trump want to, he could be a stick in the eye of the corpocracy, act as a bully pullpit for future change, etc.

Voting incumbents from office will never happen and even if it did the corpocracy would buy off the newbies pdq.

Will take a new 3rd party to fight fire with fire to take our country back, IMO. If Trump can get by the corpocracy this time to become president then maybe in 2020 he would consider a 3rd party run with some grassroots support.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at February 21, 2016 10:24 PM
Comment #402962

Well, C&J, this might be the smartest thing Republicans do. The GOP needs a reboot. It’s accumulated too many errors, too much junk in its memory. It needs permission to clear out the crazies and turn out the idiots, especially McConnell. It needs permission to tack back towards the center. It’s leaders have mistaken fanatical opposition to the rival party for commitment to the wellbeing of the GOP.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at February 25, 2016 11:12 AM
Comment #402990

Yes Stephen that’s what we need. Advice from you. Lol

Posted by: dbs at February 25, 2016 5:14 PM
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