An Algorithm for the Donald

While CNN’s Peter Bergen has decided that Trump is a proto-fascist, not having risen to the ranks of a full-blown fascist, the GOP establishment keeps hoping Trump will blow up real good. Or maybe fade, which is the latest tag hung on the brash developer who can do no wrong with his supporters.

But do no wrong is itself wrong when it comes to Trump. He has surged in South Carolina, after outraging commentators on both sides of the spectrum with his call to temporarily shut down immigration of Muslims to America. At least until some sort of tightly controlled process could be put in place.

His provocative comments lay bare the division between a significant group of voters and the establishment. Not the GOP establishment. Not liberal academics. Not Democratic consultants nor Beltway think tanks, or mildly progressive Wall Street wealthy financiers. All of them and all of it.

Anything that smacks of any sort of elite that talks down to their immediate and real concerns is seen by them as irrelevant or even an enemy. So the fact that the London-raised and Oxford-educated Bergen has thoughtfully displayed his worldwide and well-travelled perspective for the bracing edification of those who support Trump is hardly surprising.

And he sends a specific little sneer their way as well, lamenting that white working class voters are worried about jobs in the face of illegal immigration. You're supporting a proto-fascist but hey, I understand your fears.

In about 7 weeks, we'll know a bit more about who in fact is blowing up, pulling out, going nowhere, hanging on, surviving, or winning. The reasons for why Trump will supposedly lose keep changing as things either don't change or change unexpectedly.

So Iowa is everything right now. Unless Trump wins in Iowa, and then apparently Iowa is meaningless. But if he loses, then we told you so.

An interesting algorithm. If The Donald wins, then mark as unimportant. Erase old goal of seeing him finally go down in flames by any given date. And set up a new algorithm predicting his fall. And hope this one works. Finally.

Posted by Keeley at December 14, 2015 4:19 PM
Comments
Comment #401478

I liked how they predicted a clash between Trump and Cruz, and then not having it materialize. They had to rewrite the headlines after the debate to include Rubio.

I have to feel sorry for the media, these days. They keep trying to define the narrative, but it just doesn’t work out for them. Over and over again.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 17, 2015 5:37 PM
Comment #401479

Lol. The problem is not with the media. The problem is the media is reporting what the conservative GOP candidates are saying. Trump in particular spouts hatred, bigotry, racism, xenophobia, and misogyny on a regular basis. He appeals to fear. Conservatives are eating it up. They are afraid, and… and… It’s Obama’s fault! So, is there anything to actually be afraid of? Doesn’t matter! ISIS! Ebola! Illegal Immigrants! Benghazi!!!

The Republican campaign is so bad and the candidates are so bad that some are already talking about punting on the presidential race and concentrating resources down ticket to try and salvage what they may. The Senate will be gone, but they should be able to save the House and some governorships from the impending Trump debacle.

It is possible Trump and the other candidates will continue being so horrible and repellant to most Americans that they will destroy the GOP. When the back-up plan to Trump is Cruz or Rubio, that incredible scenario seems like a more and more likely outcome.

Posted by: phx8 at December 17, 2015 7:41 PM
Comment #401480

At the time of the last post I did not know Megyn Kelly and Glenn Beck were talking about the same thing- the disastrous Trump candidacy and the end of the GOP:

“MEGYN KELLY (HOST): And there are now some people are saying that if he’s the nominee — somebody said this on our show last night — Hillary Clinton will win 49 out of 50 states and the Republican Party will face devastation…

GLENN BECK: I know that I won’t go to the polls. I won’t vote for Hillary Clinton and I won’t vote for Donald Trump. I just won’t. And I know a lot of people that feel that way. I know people in the GOP who are like, look, well he is better that Hillary Clinton. Maybe, I don’t know. I mean the guy last night, he didn’t even know what the triad was. He didn’t even know what are the missile silos and the strategic air command with missiles on the planes and our nuclear submarines. He didn’t even know what that meant. He couldn’t answer that question. It was bizarre. He is also a giant progressive… If they put Donald Trump in, try to put him in office, if that’s what the people want, you are going to see an end to the Republican Party. It will just be over, there’ll just be nothing left.”

Donald Trump a progressive? Uh huh. That is so patently ridiculous it is hard to even know where to start. But that is the current state of conservatism. It is utterly incoherent.

Posted by: phx8 at December 17, 2015 8:38 PM
Comment #401481

What would you know about these candidates if it wasn’t for the media?

I’ll bet you’ve never looked Donald Trump in the eye, never had a conversation with him no matter how short or long. I’d be willing to go so far as to say you’ve never even seen him in person. So, how could you know anything about him if it wasn’t for someone else telling you about him?

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 17, 2015 11:15 PM
Comment #401482

The fact that Trump is still around tells us the problem is the GOP. The fact that Sanders is gaining support tells us the problem is the Dems. The fact that both together are still around tells us the problem is both parties.

People are tired of the politicians that lie to get into office and then do the bidding of their corporate masters and billionaire money men. People are tired of watching the middle class disappear as we continue with the supply side economics and tax cuts of the conservatives in Congress and the free trade pacts of the Dems. The lying being done to make the TPP palatable to the people of this country is a pox on the Dems. Clinton won’t do a thing to negate the negative impacts of globalization to the middle class of this country but give us lip service.

Trump isn’t owned by the Oligarchy,the only repub candidate who can say this, and has told us he would put a 35% tariff on imports. Sanders isn’t owned by the Oligarchy, and wouldn’t sign the TPP in it’s present form. None of the other candidates including Clinton would be allowed to do anything that would alter the trade deals sought by the Oligarchy.

People are tired of the Oligarchy, we don’t want it, we are tired of the favors and handouts to the money men only to be trickled on by these same people.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2015 10:56 AM
Comment #401483

Well J2, that does indeed explain all the ‘hatred, bigotry, racism, xenophobia, and misogyny on a regular basis’ nonsense from the Hillary apologists.

Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 11:00 AM
Comment #401485

No it doesn’t kctim, Trump, Cruz and the rest of the repub clown bus is guilty of all of these things but… he is at least honest about it, it is the honesty that causes many working class Americans to continue to place Trump above the rest of the clowns in the repub race. The only question is will they vote in the primaries or will they allow the oligarchy to determine the clown that wins.

As it stands now, for me, the 2016 presidential election is a no brainer. (No I don’t mean those running for the job have no brains) I will write in Sanders instead of voting for Clinton Trump or Cruz.

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2015 12:10 PM
Comment #401486

“the repub clown bus is guilty of all of these things”

That is another of those lies that people are tired of, J2.
Alot of people are getting fed up with the liberal PC BS and the labels you try to tag people with when they simply disagree with you.

That is why idiot Trump leads in the polls. And if you guys keep pushing them on that and keep pushing more and more unconstitutional gun control, you’re going to turn a landslide Hillary victory into another squeaker that will divide us even more than Obama has.

Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 12:38 PM
Comment #401487

Look kctim, this passing the buck thing doesn’t play. You seriously believe it is liberals that are to blame for Trump, Cruz and the rest of the clown bus and their mutterings!It is the conservative propaganda machine that has stirred these guys up and the candidates are getting the conservative message out accordingly. The problem is they just don’t like to be identified as “‘hatred, bigotry, racism, xenophobia, and misogyny” even if it is true.

Ya know kctim whether Hillary wins in a landslide or not is irrelevant as the difference between her Cruz, Rubio/Bush3 is minimal. Wow I said that!!! Well I guess I am wrong about that but I would say the difference between them is Clinton gives the appearance of not kowtowing to the oligarchy and her foreign policies would sure be better.

As far as gun control look at what Bernie Sanders is saying.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie_sanders_on_guns_vermont_independent_voted_against_gun_control_for.html

Posted by: j2t2 at December 18, 2015 1:19 PM
Comment #401489

Um, no J2, I didn’t say liberals were responsible for what they are saying, I said you are paying the price for the divisive hate filled insanity that YOU are saying.

You know dang well that Hillary is part of that wealthy oligarchy you always mention. If she didn’t pretend to hold the typical hypocritical leftist positions on things like redistributing wealth, gay-marriage, abortion etc…, you’d be holding her to the same standards you do those on the right.

Sanders views on gun control mean nothing, he will not be the candidate (THANK GOD!)
What I was talking about was the most recent attempt by liberals to further gut the 2nd Amendment, the coming EOs from Obama, and what Hillary has been screaming about on the campaign trail.
That all is making her quest to rule much harder than it should be.

BTW: In the future, you really shouldn’t use a liberal rag to show how “pro-gun” Sanders is.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/

“Bernie has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.”

There is already heavy regulation on actual ‘assault weapons’ and there is no gunshow loophole.

At best, Sanders believes that the 2nd Amendment is a privilege that is to be heavily regulated for hunting purposes.


Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 1:57 PM
Comment #401490

Ok, this is pretty funny! A PPP poll asked Republican voters if they would support carpet bombing Agrabah, and 30% of those asked said they favored it. It increased to 40% among Trump supporters. Sadly, 19% of Democrats also favored bombing Agrabah.

Agrabah is the fictional city-state in the Disney movie “Aladdin.”

WW,
There is more information available on Trump than any other candidate, both filtered and unfiltered. No one makes him say the things he says, or issue ridiculous statements, or spout gibberish during a debate when asked about the nuclear triad. From his lips to your ears. That’s not the media’s fault.

kctim,
“… that does indeed explain all the ‘hatred, bigotry, racism, xenophobia, and misogyny on a regular basis’ nonsense from the Hillary apologists.”

Nonsense from Hillary apologists? OH REALLY. Would you like some quotes from conservative Republican governors and Senators, including GOP presidential candidates? Because there are plenty of them.

And what do you make of this? It comes from an interview this morning by Scarborough. Trump praised Putin’s leadership and put down Obama. Scarborough pointed out that Putin “kills journalists, political opponents, and invades countries. Obviously that would be a concern, would it not?”

Trump replied:

“He’s running his country, and at least he’s a leader. Unlike what we have in this country.”

WTF! What do you even say when a presidential candidate publicly states something like that?

j2t2,
When it comes to oligarchy, Trump is a member. Just because he is not owned by other oligarchs does not mean he does not belong to that system.

Furthermore, dismissing a candidate like HRC for belonging to the oligarchy is not really fair. While I agree with you about TPP- Sanders wholeheartedly opposes it- HRC is good on other issues which are not necessarily part of an oligarchic agenda, especially social issues.   


Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 2:16 PM
Comment #401491

“WTF! What do you even say when a presidential candidate publicly states something like that?”

Well, seeing how Putin is indeed the leader running Russia, I would guess a good journalist would then say something like “Why do you feel President Obama isn’t a good leader for the way he is running our country?”

Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 3:02 PM
Comment #401492

kctim,
Come on! How can you not come right out and condemn that? You think Putin is a good leader and Obama compares unfavorably? Really?

Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 3:21 PM
Comment #401493

The triad, as mentioned in the debate, is so outdated it’s useless. Who’s going to launch global nuclear obliteration (MAD) today? Why would mutually assured destruction be necessary when they could destroy our economy much more easily.

Trump answered the question in the context of today’s threats. One person with a suitcase nuke taking out a city.

The triad question is a cold war remnant. The real question we should be asking about the triad is, “Why do we need it at all?”, “Is it really a functional system anymore?”, and “Will it even work if we need it?”.

Trump answered that question with skepticism. To say Trump is ignorant is just agreeing with what others say about him. With those people, listening to what Trump actually said is optional.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 18, 2015 3:43 PM
Comment #401494

Phx8, I couldn’t care less about Putin or Russia, so I was only going by what you quoted Trump as replying with:

“He’s running his country, and at least he’s a leader.”

Putin IS the leader who IS running Russia. Not sure how that means I addressed whether Putin is a good leader or not.

“Unlike what we have in this country.”

So, a Republican doesn’t think the liberal democrat running the country isn’t doing a good job, and I am supposed to be surprised or angered by that? Please.

BTW: While looking for the proper context of the Trump quote you provided, I noticed that you ‘mistakenly’ forgot part of it.

- Finally, when asked whether he would condemn Putin’s alleged brutal tactics, Trump responded: “Sure, absolutely.”

And that pretty much explains why I didn’t bother taking you up on your offer to provide us with some quotes.

Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 4:47 PM
Comment #401496

Oh no you don’t, WW. I am not going to let you weasel out of this. First, here is the question asked of Trump:

“Mr. Trump, Dr. Carson just referenced the single most important job of the president, the command, the control and the care of our nuclear forces. And he mentioned the triad. The B-52s are older than I am. The missiles are old. The submarines are aging out. It’s an executive order. It’s a commander-in-chief decision.

“What’s your priority among our nuclear triad?”

Here is Trump’s answer:

“Well, first of all, I think we need somebody absolutely that we can trust, who is totally responsible, who really knows what he or she is doing. That is so powerful and so important. And one of the things that I’m frankly most proud of is that in 2003, 2004, I was totally against going into Iraq because you’re going to destabilize the Middle East. I called it. I called it very strongly. And it was very important. But we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. Nuclear changes the whole ballgame. Frankly, I would have said get out of Syria; get out – if we didn’t have the power of weaponry today. The power is so massive that we can’t just leave areas that 50 years ago or 75 years ago we wouldn’t care. It was hand-to-hand combat. The biggest problem this world has today is not President Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he’s saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear – nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon. That’s in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces right now.”

Trump failed to answer the question, so the moderator followed up:

“Of the three legs of the triad, though, do you have a priority? I want to go to Sen. Rubio after that and ask him.”

“I think – I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me.

I might give Trump a pass for not knowing about the nuclear triad, however, the moderator explained the three legs in the initial question. Trump proceeded to give a wandering answer about Iraq, leadership, his opposition to nuclear proliferation, and “the single biggest problem our country faces right now,” his fear of an individual madman with a nuclear weapon.

First of all, the question asks what Trump would do about the three legs of the nuclear arsenal in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief. He never answered this because he has no idea. He is aware of the power of nuclear weapons- “the power of devastation is very important to me”- but he cannot articulate what he would do as CIC, other than be a strong leader.

He never expressed “skepticism.” He never opined about the possible obsolescence of the triad. He quite simply did not know.

Furthermore, the idea that an individual maniac with a nuclear weapon is our country’s single biggest problem is absolutely ludicrous. Nuclear weapons do not work that way. There are a number of safeguards that make detonating one in an act of terrorism extraordinarily difficult. In addition, the nuclear weapons produced by the various nations have telltale signatures to their fallout. If one is ever exploded, we will very quickly know where it originated, and no country will be complicit in letting one of its weapons, codes, and other controls fall into the hands of an unstable individual.

This is yet another example of fear mongering by a candidate who does not know what he is talking about.


Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 5:00 PM
Comment #401501

kctim,
Uh huh. Speaking of weaseling, your backpedaling pretty hard.

Trump spoke favorably of Putin’s leadership and badmouthed Obama’s leadership. Scarborough had to repeat his point about killing journalists and political opponents twice before Trump condemned those acts. Yet Trump never backed off his original point. Trump said:

“He’s running his country, and at least he’s a leader. Unlike what we have in this country.”

Trump is implying that Putin is successfully fulfilling his role of being a leader and running his country, and he contrasts this with the example of Obama. And remember, the host had to repeat the point about killing journalists TWICE for Trump to condemn it.

Now, let’s look at that in a little more detail. When Putin went after the Ukraine the Obama administration retaliated by destroying the Russian economy. The ruble crashed, and Russia fell from the 6th largest economy in the world to 19th. Nice leadership by Putin. Guess Trump forgot that part.

Putin does agree with Obama about Global Warming and follows his lead. Obama’s administration- NOT Putin- steered almost 200 countries into joining together to address Global Warming.

Putin also followed Obama’s lead in the recent Iran non-nuclear proliferation agreement. Russia was one of the signatories.

Perhaps Trump forgot those examples of leadership- both good and bad. More likely, he did not know, or perhaps he did not want to advertise his ignorance about Global Warming, and just how out of step American conservatives are with the rest of the world and virtually every scientist.

Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 5:32 PM
Comment #401503

Phx8,
Trump said Putin was a leader, badmouthed Obama, and then condemned Putin’s actions that were mentioned.
Those are the facts.

Obama has been a terrible, divisive and agenda driven President, so people questioning his leadership ability isn’t going to rile me up.

This is all silly and if Obama were a Republican, you would be agreeing with me.


Posted by: kctim at December 18, 2015 5:57 PM
Comment #401504
HH: Do we need all the three kind of nuclear weapons that we have though? DT: I think we should have absolutely have — you know we are going to have to build ourselves back up because — I don’t know if you saw that 60 Minute piece about a year ago where our nuclear weapons are so absolute and so outdated, the phones didn’t work, the wires were rotted and frankly to allow that to actually go on television where they are giving tours of places of silos and they are rusting and rotting and I’m Putin and I looking at that I’m saying I’m saying, “Wow these guys don’t have the power we thought they had.”
I have to give Trump credit for not getting bogged down in a useless discussion about the nuclear triad. He addressed the ineffectiveness of our nuclear deterrent capabilities in the quote above. He was shocked it got out on 60 minutes. I give him credit for not displaying the disarray again in a nationally televised debate with tens of millions of people watching.

He addressed this with Hewett on his radio show. It was Hewett that brought it up again in the debate. Maybe Trump is smart enough to not broadcast our government’s failings on National TV.

Maybe you should be mad at Hewett for not embarrassing Trump. Instead you manufacture your latest outrage out of what you thought he would say and ignore what he did say. Politicians give cookie cutter answers, phx8. He didn’t give the one you thought was correct. That doesn’t make him incompetent.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 18, 2015 9:11 PM
Comment #401505

The only one of the Republican candidates that seems to know anything about current world conflicts is Rand Paul. Interesting that he is the only one that seems cautious about US intervention in those conflicts.

The rest of the Republican candidates appear clueless about world events and realistic options for the US.

Cruz advocates “carpet bombing ISIS.” When informed that the suggestion might be a war crime due to civilian casualties, he amends his answer and says that he only means where they are specifically located. Again, apparently clueless that they are embedded in two large cities (Raqqa and Mosul).

While the question about the “nuclear triad” seemed weird and irrelevant to me, the fact that Trump didn’t even know what the term meant was dumbfounding. How does anybody who lived through the cold war not recognize the term and concept?

In any case, I would suggest that stunned silence would be the appropriate response to the nonsense coming from Trump and the rest of the candidates. Perhaps, they would take some time to learn some facts, reflect on realistic options and propose some rationale policies. Otherwise, heated discussion of the merits of their nonsensical utterings only encourages more.

Posted by: Rich at December 18, 2015 10:25 PM
Comment #401506

WW,
You must be kidding. Trump watched 60 Minutes and based his opinions about the nuclear arsenal on that? Really? And that is the leading candidate for the GOP presidential nomination? Holy cow!

Trump does not know what he is doing, and it was obvious to the 15 million people who watched that last debate. He makes it obvious on an almost daily basis. He knows nothing about foreign policy, nothing about the military, and nothing about the economy, and it shows.

kctim,
“Obama has been a terrible, divisive and agenda driven President…”

False. Obama has repeatedly extended an olive branch and offered to negotiate with the GOP. The GOP has consistently rejected these overtures, and they consciously made the decision to do so from the day Obama was elected. Literally. The leaders met and agreed on a policy of obstruction. Conservatives denounce any Republicans who work with the administration in the country’s interest, and primary them. They routinely brag about their obstructionism. They have shut down the government and threatened to default on the national debt, resulting in a downgrade of US Treasury Bonds.

By any objective measure, the Obama administration has done a great job on the economy, expanded rights for Americans, and exhibited outstanding leadership on the international stage. That can be backed up by numbers and statistics, ones commonly accepted across the political spectrum.

Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 10:27 PM
Comment #401507

Maybe Trump thought the idea of the nuclear triad was irrelevant, also. He expressed the more pressing concern, and that was terrorists getting a nuke. That’s what most Americans are concerned with. Not some outdated, obsolete, 60 year old concept that most likely won’t even work.

You guys are actually criticizing him for not spending time on irrelevant issues? You’re desperation is making my eyebrows chuckle.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 18, 2015 10:31 PM
Comment #401508

Ones commonly accepted by the media lapdogs and the Democratic party. Any Republican would have been strung up for letting an economy go sideways for two entire terms. Any Republican would have been impeached if this immigration situation was on his watch.

You’re entitled to your own opinion, phx8, not your own facts. Wasn’t that a Democratic who said that?


Posted by: Weary Willie at December 18, 2015 10:37 PM
Comment #401509

“I don’t think he’s a serious candidate. I don’t know why others don’t feel compelled to point that out, but I did. Donald Trump is not going to be president of the United States by insulting every group on the planet, insulting women, P.O.W.s, war heroes, Hispanics, disabled, African-Americans.”
Jeb Bush

WW,
The nuclear triad gives a president options for ratcheting up pressure, particularly the air arm. Times have changed, and there are weapons systems we do not publicize that probably have made Cold War strategy obsolete.

When I served in the military, I was a B-52 radar navigator on nuclear alert and a Nuclear Safety Officer. I am absolutely certain the safeguards on nuclear weapons work. No individual terrorist will detonate a bomb or launch a missile. About the worst they could do is break one open and use the plutonium to pollute an area using a conventional bomb. It would be difficult, extremely dangerous to the killer, and kind of foolish, considering there are a lot easier and more efficient ways to slaughter people and spread panic.

The economy has NOT moved sideways for seven years. Just the opposite. We are currently seeing the best economy of the modern era. For 2015 we averaged 2.25% growth and 1.25% inflation. Oil prices are way down and so are other commodity prices. Gold prices usually reflect uncertainty and fear of inflation, and they are also low- under $1100. Interest rates are still near historic lows. We are now nearing full employment, with a record of consecutive months for adding jobs in the private sector. The most recent jobs report showed 211,000 jobs created and a 5% unemployment rate, with upwards revisions on non-farm payroll for the previous two months. The stock market has set all-time highs. The deficit has been reduced every year under the Obama administration, a total reduction from when he took office of about $1 trillion. We are now well into one of the longest economic recoveries in American history, and we may set the record for the longest one ever.

It has been one of the best economic performances by an administration that we have seen in a lifetime. Clinton did better in some respects, but then he did not enter office facing a collapsing economy and a Great Recession.

Immigration is a problem, but one that is easily solved. All we need to do is welcome all those people who want to become Americans, and grant them citizenship. Easy peasy. Problem solved.

Posted by: phx8 at December 18, 2015 11:55 PM
Comment #401510

I remember Democratics giving both Bush’s hell for 4% and 5% economic growth. Funny how times change. It’s weird how good times only happen during Democratic president’s terms. It’s your story, you can tell it.

Thanks for admitting the “triad” is outdated and obsolete. No point in criticizing Trump for acknowledging that, right?

If the deficit has been reduced why are we having to raise the debt ceiling every year? Funny how that works, also. All you have to do is promote a fantasy like the country will default on it’s obligations and whalla, we raise our credit limit! What Democratics fail to explain is how Republicans are making those non-discretionary interest payments discretionary. And how a bankrupt government pays employees both unemployment and back pay!

Hey, what’s a few lies, right phx8? As long as the end justifies the means. Anyone who disagrees is either incompetent, a racist, or a terrorist, right?

Immigration isn’t a problem unless someone thinks it should be controlled. What’s the real motive, phx8. It’s not like BurgerKings are shutting down for a lack of employees. It’s not like people are buying houses and they’re not getting built. Why do we need unlimited immigration?

You can believe anything you like, phx8. Just don’t insult our intelligence. You and the media are done pissing on our heads and telling us it’s raining.

Posted by: Weary Willie at December 19, 2015 12:17 AM
Comment #401511

WW,
“I remember Democratics giving both Bush’s hell for 4% and 5% economic growth.”

Oh yeah. Good times. Awesome growth! Say, how did that great economy turn out? Didn’t something happen at the end of the Bush administration?

“If the deficit has been reduced why are we having to raise the debt ceiling every year?”

Because they are not the same. The annual budget deficit is the difference between federal revenues and spending. The debt ceiling involves congressional authorization to pay bills that have already been incurred.

Under the Bush administration, we went from an annual budget surplus to a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit. The costs of the Iraq War were not part of the annual deficit, but were called ‘emergency’ spending measures and added directly to the national debt.

Under the Obama administration, we went from a $1.4 trillion dollar budget deficit to @ $439 billion budget deficit- a reduction of about $1 trillion! During that time, the national debt has grown, but because the economy has grown so much while interest rates have remained so low, servicing the debt has become considerably easier.

Posted by: phx8 at December 19, 2015 2:08 PM
Comment #401512

kctim,
When Scarborough mentioned Putin killing journalists, opponents, and invading countries, Trump responded:

“Our country does plenty of killing also”.

Nice. Ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump!

Republican Governor and conservative John Kasich put out a press release today:

“In a bold and visionary move characteristic of everything he does,” the announcement began, “today terrific billionaire Donald Trump named Russian president Vladimir Putin as his running mate in the 2016 US presidential campaign… Trump pledged that together with Putin he would ‘Make Tyranny Great Again’.”

and

“Trump said he picked Putin to be his vice-president for his strong approach to dealing with dissent, flexible approach to democracy, rule of law and the Constitution, and his willingness to regularly violate other countries’ territorial integrity in blatant violation of international law if it suited his aims.”


Posted by: phx8 at December 19, 2015 4:29 PM
Comment #401520

Phx8

Your boasts about the economy are quite entertaining. I especially enjoy your strict adherence to only government data and supportive opinion and polls. Why? For the simple reason that I know your love is simply because Obama is a dem. LOL!

Like the majority of Americans, I am not an economy guy, but I can tell you that things are tougher than they were in 2005. Especially for those of us who avoid debt.
To be honest, I don’t think your boasts are true for the average Joe.

While certain groups have been given special privileges, Americans as ‘We the People’ have lost rights under the thumb of the Obama administration.

From culture to race to religion to ‘class,’ Obama and his administration have divided Americans into groups that are now at war with each other.

“Our country does plenty of killing also”.
- Nice. Ladies and gentlemen, Donald Trump!”

The left uses this line to label Presidents Reagan and Bush murderers, to ‘explain’ terrorism, to ‘explain’ why the world hates the US, and to ‘explain’ why America is not exceptional, but now you use it to crucify Trump? Classic man, lol.

Posted by: kctim at December 21, 2015 10:50 AM
Comment #401523
Like the majority of Americans, I am not an economy guy, but I can tell you that things are tougher than they were in 2005. Especially for those of us who avoid debt.

Kctim, you mean 2005 when the country was riding a bubble that burst just a few later? Even then the same people you talk about, those of us who avoid debt and working class Americans, were having a tough time, Things have been going down hill since the time of Reagan, income inequality/wealth inequality is as high as the great depression.

You like to blame Obama for this but the fact is the economic numbers phx8 mentions when compared to the numbers of previous administrations speak for themselves, the Obama administration is a winner when it comes to economic numbers. I’m surprised you mention the Americans who as conservatives tell us refuse to get advanced degrees at prestigious universities and expect to get paid a living wage. The same Americans who fight for a $15 wage only to be told by conservatives they are lazy and don’t deserve that much because the military doesn’t make as much. Why would you bring these people up in this conversation after being so abusive to then in other threads? Is this hypocrisy on your part?

Posted by: j2t2 at December 21, 2015 6:26 PM
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