Hispanic immigration

If we are going to talk about immigration, we should at least talk about it properly. First, the situation we are living with now is not the one we can expect in future. Birth rates south of the border have been dropping like stones. The demographic push of Latino immigration has run out of steam. In demographics, there is always a lag time, but demography is as close as we can get to destiny. It is simple. Nobody not alive today will be born before today. No more can be created.

The demographic wave has already crested and is receding. Since 2008, there has been almost no net immigration from Mexico. As the influx of new immigrants slows or essentially stops, Latinos will assimilate, as all before have. In the second generation, 36% of Latinos marry outside their ethnic group. This is similar to other groups. Within a couple generations, Latino heritage will be like have some Polish, German or other national origin. It will not matter.

On the personal level, most of us have Latino friends or relatives. Christine's sister is married to a native-born Latino man. He speaks no Spanish. The kids are Mexican, Swedish & Norwegian. They are LESS "Latino" than my son (who is German, Polish, Swedish & Norwegian), since my son knows some Spanish. Speaking of him, his fiance is an immigrant from Bolivia.

Anyway, with regards to Latino immigration, this train has left the station, this die has been cast. We can do very little at this time to change the trajectory of the development and generally speaking it will be positive for our country, as it was with Germans, Irish, Poles, Italians, Jews ... All these groups were at one time considered threats to "Americanism" and suffered significant discrimination.

Now let's consider politics. Democrats like Latino immigration because they think they will be Democratic voters. Republicans are suspicious for the same reason. Both are short-sighted.

First, parties change. The Democratic Party of today is not the same as it was in 1950. In 1950, Democrats were the ones who pushed free trade and were much more interventionist in international affairs. In 1950 Republicans were strongest in places like Vermont, which today is the redoubt of the redoubtable Bernie Sanders.

And groups change. White "ethnics" were a core Democratic constituency in 1950. Today, they are strongly Republican.

Let me personalize again. In the 1960s, nobody among my family or friends voted Republican. Our parents were immigrants or children of immigrants & Democrats had succeeded in organizing them. We didn't know any Republicans. I thought that Republican wore top hats and had tie pins shaped like dollar signs. Today, few of my cousins would even think of voting Democratic. The generation changed and so did voting patterns. Latinos will be subject to similar trends as they become more integrated into America.

Things change.

Finally, let's talk about birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship in one of the things that separated America from the bad old countries our ancestors fled. In America, we care about who you are and what you can do. We are unconcerned about who your parents were. This is as it should be. The newest American is as much an American as someone whose ancestors showed up on the Mayflower.

Since I am 60 years old and was born in the U.S., I have been an American for 60 years. Someone older than I am could be an American for less time and someone younger has been an American for a shorter time. Nobody is more American because his ancestors arrived earlier. That would be a backward belief based on group membership.

Nobody is going to change birthright citizenship. Those who claim that they would be that are dishonest or ignorant and so we should reject them. I would add that those who think they SHOULD eliminate birthright citizens have not thought it through or are thinking in an immoral out of date - medieval - fashion.

When I see Latinos today, I feel close to their culture and habits. They are very much like my Polish ancestors. They are hard working people, many are small business people. They want better for their kids and their kids will end up like me in many cases. My grandfather was an immigrant. My father's first language was not English and he never graduated HS. I have done better because they pushed me forward, just as Latino parents are doing. Let's hope the liberals don't make them into victims and ruin it all.

With some luck, lots of hard work and the gift of time, it is likely that the kids of today's poor immigrants will become prosperous Americans, well integrated into the mainstream. And probably they will also turn much more Republican.

Posted by Christine & John at August 19, 2015 9:40 AM
Comments
Comment #397559

You are talking about two subjects. Immigration is what your family did and my family did, since my mother and grandparents were English. This is called immigration; it is bound by a set of rules and laws. My father had to sign for my grandparents, aunt, and 3 uncles to come to America. They had to show the ability to earn a living and in the case of my grandparents, draw a retirement. This was the law. They had to wait until there was an opening for them to come to the US; this was also the law. When they got here, they had to abide by certain laws or they would have been deported back to England.

What is taking place on our southern border for the past couple of decades is not immigration and is not controlled by any immigration laws. It is nothing more than an illegal invasion. There is no requirements of education, work training, or income guarantee. No American was required to sign or take responsibility for these invaders. They come to America without money, but with the promise of government handouts; they come with no education, but with the promise of free education and including college; and they come with no skills, other than “hard working” people. So there is no comparison to what took place 40-50 years ago.

As far as “assimilation” goes; let me ask this, are blacks assimilated into society? No, except for the ones who have lifted themselves by the bootstraps from the ghettos, the rest are living in cities…in government provided low income housing. Why would one believe that Hispanics are going to assimilate into society, when they are promised free government housing, welfare, and food stamps? If blacks are assimilated then why is Obama’s latest goal to place blacks in white neighborhoods?

The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has finalized its “Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing” rule that empowers the government to condition eligibility for community development block grants on redrawing zoning maps to achieve racial and income integration by building high density, low-income housing in middle-class neighborhoods.

In 2012, HUD dispersed about $3.8 billion of these grants to almost 1,200 municipalities. To continue receiving those grants, zoning plans will now need federal approval that they met with the government’s racial guidelines.

This could be Obama’s biggest power grab yet. HUD is now claiming authority over local zoning decisions in an effort to redraw every neighborhood in America — to achieve an unachievable, utopian vision of forced community development.

http://netrightdaily.com/2015/07/obama-finalizes-racist-plan-to-redraw-your-neighborhood/#ixzz3jHTYPlgS

And how is this assimilation to take place, by taxpayer funded government housing. And we find the same plan for Hispanics. How many of these government ghettos does it take? How many American cities has to be destroyed, in the name of assimilation? There is no assimilation. Several years ago I worked with a Lebanese man by the name of Ali Baydoon, he and his wife and kids were from Dearborn, MI. A Muslim neighborhood. His wife made his life a living hell until he took her back to the hood. She was not interested in assimilation. When our European ancestors came to America, they wanted land and jobs. They moved on their own. They had no government housing, welfare, or food stamps. Immigrants and invaders are doing exactly what the Democrats want them to do; live in government housing, live on welfare and food stamps, and most of all, create Democratic voting blocks. Hence, we degraded cites, broke, and riddled with crime. What will be the result of Obama’s assimilation plans? Simple, whites and people of means will move; once again creating new ghettos.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 1:11 PM
Comment #397560

Can’t say that I am really all that concerned about immigrants coming to the US. Can’t recall that I’ve ever thought immigration was any kind of problem.
About all I would ask of them is if they are German or Mexican, please invite me over for dinner.

Our illegal alien problem needs to be dealt with, though.

Posted by: kctim at August 19, 2015 1:20 PM
Comment #397565

Blaine

The big surge at the southern border is no longer the crisis it was The numbers are not there anymore. We had big profile events, such as all those kids showing up, but the numbers of illegals coming across is down.

I agree that we should control the border. But we need to think logically about who we are controlling and how. The way lots of people get in now is visa overstays. Swimming the Rio Bravo is just yesterday’s news.

Re assimilation - it is happening. The progress was masked by continued newcomers. Out marriage rates for native born Latinos is 36%. People are losing the capacity to speak Spanish fluently in the 2nd and 3rd generations. It is very similar to other groups, for good or ill.

I think that government programs may have slowed progress. Bilingual education, for example, is a bad idea. And identifying “Hispanics” as a special group was illogical, given the diversity in that population. Nevertheless, America is working as it should and newcomers are becoming American as they always have.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 2:11 PM
Comment #397567

Thomas Sowell

“The endlessly repeated argument that most Americans are the descendants of immigrants ignores the fact that most Americans are NOT the descendants of ILLEGAL immigrants. Millions of immigrants from Europe had to stop at Ellis Island, and had to meet medical and other criteria before being allowed to go any further.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 2:15 PM
Comment #397568

I hear and read a lot of this talk about how “sure this is a country of immigrants but legal immigrants, dammit”. As if they were there every time some one arrived on Ellis Island or any other port in these United States and personally verified the legitimacy of the process of crossing into our country. I don’t think so.

Speaking of Ellis Island a Sicilian friend of mine whose name is Anthony that I call Tony and whose father’s name is Anthony and we call Tony asked me once if I knew why so many of the Italian and Sicilian immigrants were called Tony. Knowing his sense of humor, I replied tongue in cheek, no Tony why. Because on Ellis Island they had a big stamp that they put on the foreheads of the recent immigrants they released that read TO NY. It’s nice to know we immigrants and descendants of immigrants can joke with each other.

C&J from your keyboard to the giant ear of conservatives and Republicans, hopefully not their deaf one. Keep this up and you will be called reasonable by some and traitor by others. I would fall on the reasonable side of that argument. Thanks for a thoughtful posting regarding immigration.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 19, 2015 2:32 PM
Comment #397570

The art of flim-flam as practiced by Speak; “As if they were there every time some one arrived on Ellis Island or any other port in these United States and personally verified the legitimacy of the process of crossing into our country.”

LOL…best spin category…worthy of the Bill Clinton flummery award.

Hey Speaks, shine your blazing intellectual gaze upon this article.

“VIENNA (AP) — Iran, in an unusual arrangement, will be allowed to use its own experts to inspect a site it allegedly used to develop nuclear arms under a secret agreement with the U.N. agency that normally carries out such work, according to a document seen by The Associated Press.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 2:40 PM
Comment #397571

Yes C&J, by all means, continue to be reasonable. As soon as you stop agreeing with the left, you will once again become a right wing, radical, hyperbolic radical. Did I miss any adjectives?

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 2:43 PM
Comment #397572

Blaine

I understand that I will be a “right wing zealot” again very soon

We have seen this a couple times. I remember writing re Romney. Our leftist friends wrote that he was too moderate to be nominated by Republicans. After he was nominated by Republicans, suddenly he became a right wing zealot.

Re immigration - I think it should be controlled. But when I look at the trends, I see that we are living in the past re the southern border. What will face in future are visa overstays and lots of immigrants from places like Africa. The sons and daughters of Hispanic immigrants will be talking tomorrow like the sons and daughters of Italian or German immigrants today, saying how their grandfathers just fit right in, but the new ones …

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 3:28 PM
Comment #397573

Ah yes C/J, the violation of our immigration laws are slowing so we should continue to allow illegals to flaunt them.

What other violation of federal laws should be ignored?

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 3:39 PM
Comment #397575

Royal

We should work to make our laws function. The idea that a wall across the Southwest would help with that is not a starter. Trump could not get the Mexicans to pay for it. He is full it when he says he could.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 3:50 PM
Comment #397577


“The endlessly repeated argument that most Americans are the descendants of immigrants ignores the fact that most Americans are NOT the descendants of ILLEGAL immigrants.
Thomas Sowell

Fun fact:
During the 1700’s, about 1/4 of Americans were criminals. America served as a penal colony for Britain. Most of the criminals were ‘indentured servants,’ others political malcontents from despised minorities. The practice stopped when the American Revolution started. That is why Britain started using Australia as a penal colony, and founded Botany Bay. They could no longer export all those criminals to America.

You won’t find that fun fact in lessons about American Exceptionalism. We’re exceptional, all right. Just not quite the way those guys meant.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 3:57 PM
Comment #397578

Hmmm…”fun fact”, the US was not called America, and those living here were not called Americans, during British rule.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 4:01 PM
Comment #397579

phx8

“Criminals” in those days included people who were stuck in debt, those who did small crimes etc. In an oppressive, pre-market system, it was easy to be a criminal w/o being a crook. Lots of things were illegal that today are good business. We learned.

America is exceptional because of our political system and free market, which limit each other. In recent decades, much of the rest of the world has become more like America. Maybe we are less exceptional because the rest are getting smarter. We can welcome that.

Re malcontents - Maybe that is one reason for our exceptional success. We did not take the crap dished out by generations of elites. We went into business for ourselves and took things into our own hands. For most of history in most places that kind of initiative would get you in trouble. Recall that King George’s officials looked unfavorably on “self-help” ideas like Ben Franklin’s volunteer fire department.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 4:14 PM
Comment #397580

Some of my ancestors came to this country because they were Scotch-Irish, and in at least one case, they supported the wrong side in a war. The result was an era called ‘The Killing Times.’ Eventually that person made his way here. Trump would call him a “loser.”

BTW, I’ve mentioned before, my children are technically 1/4 Hispanic, my wife 1/2. Both of her parents are first generation. They used to be conservative. They turned against conservatism during the Bush years. The Iraq War started changing their minds, but oddly enough, a Rush Limbaugh was what finally put them over the top. One day he was making fun of the way Teresa Kerry pronounced her name. Now, my in-laws speak several languages, and when they heard the extent of the hatred behind those comments by Limbaugh, they understood; conservatives wanted nothing to do with people like them. Despite being classic examples of immigrants achieving the American Dream, they would never be accepted by people like Limbaugh because they had accents and one of them had dark skin.

The point is, immigrants- illegal and legal- get the GOP message. They understand what Trump wants. The message of the GOP and conservatives is loud and clear. It is a nativist message.

Nativism: “the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.”

It is a policy of resentment and rejection aimed at primarily at Mexicans, but also Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, and others. It is part and parcel of a political movement that resents and rejects gay marriage, the empowerment of women, and most of all, THEM- whether it is the Chinese or the Iranians or whoever. When the nativists say they want to take the country back, this is what they really mean.

Trump has become the conservative GOP’s Frankenstein monster, and no one can find the off switch.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 5:46 PM
Comment #397582

phx8

Actually Trump and Bernie are very similar in their comments. Bernie says it in a quieter way.

As Bernie said, “Open borders? No, that’s a Koch brothers proposal.”

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 5:54 PM
Comment #397583

Nativism: the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or immigrant citizens against those of illegal immigrants.”

Statism: the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty.

Words are fun. I made my living writing them for quite awhile.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 6:05 PM
Comment #397585

C&J said, “Blaine

The big surge at the southern border is no longer the crisis it was…”

I disagree; in a time when our national debt is skyrocketing and it doesn’t even include SS, Medicare, and now Obamacare.


According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2012, 52% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 26% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[8] 12% were from Asia; 5% were from Europe and Canada; and 3% were from Africa and the rest of the world.

In 2012 the Obama administration spent $18 billion on immigration enforcement programs; more than the budget for all other federal law enforcement agencies that year combined. And to no avail.

More than half of all foreign-born Latino adults in the U.S. are high school drop-outs. That’s compared with 25 percent of native-born Hispanics.

The implications of this trend are huge for a host of socio-economic reasons. But one of the most significant? It could lead to a more illiterate and ill-equipped workforce that’s precisely what an information and technologically driven economy doesn’t need.

So we have an influx of ignorant people, who don’t even qualify to enter an apprenticeship. They are a future drain on US resources.

Illegal immigrants residing in the U.S. send $50 billion in remittances to their home countries each year, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The World Bank estimates that number is even higher, closer to $120 billion.

To put that figure into context, $50 billion is the same amount as the U.S. government’s annual foreign aid budget, notes the New York Times. It’s the operating budget of a midsize country, or in America’s case, enough to fund North Carolina and Maine for an entire year…

The Central American governments have encouraged the high levels of emigration because it is earning their economy billions of dollars! For every illegal alien that sneaks into the U.S. and remits money back home, that grand total remittance number only grows. But what if the millions of U.S. jobs now filled by illegal aliens were done by American workers earning better wages, paying more in taxes and spending their money in their communities rather than sending it abroad?

Americans are the ones forced to pick up the $113 billion tab for taking care of the country’s 12 million illegal immigrants. Is it the responsibility of taxpaying citizens to cover the cost of illegal immigration and the government’s aid to these countries while illegal workers continue to send their money overseas to send $50 billion overseas?

http://immigrationreform.com/2014/10/29/illegal-immigrants-send-home-50-billion-annually-but-cost-taxpayers-more-than-113-billion/

Over $21 billion to Mexico alone. American dollars being sent to Mexico is second only to oil sales. And with the price of oil, US dollars are probably number one now. Trump said Mexico sends their people to the US and now we understand why.

We spend $113 billion to take care of the illegals while they are in the US. That’s a net loss of between $163 to $233 billion a year for the US, and that’s a low ball number.

This doesn’t even count the billions of dollars that the US will lose in SS and as soon as the illegals (with the aid of ambulance chasing lawyers) learn how to game the system, they will be applying for SS disability benefits. Some Democrats are already calling for previous year earned income credit returns for illegals who have never even filed an IRS form.

Yes C&J, I can see where you are so very optimistic and so against Trump.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 6:25 PM
Comment #397587

Blaine

This is looking backward. We are getting fewer NEW immigrants from south of the border. We really are not going to be able to deport the ones we have here now nor are we able to repeal birthright citizenship (even if we wanted). So we have a situation where it is all baked in.

Going forward, we are better off.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 6:42 PM
Comment #397588

Yes C&J, I can see where you are so very optimistic and so against Trump.
Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 6:25 PM

Thanks Blaine.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 6:44 PM
Comment #397589

phx8 said:

Some of my ancestors came to this country because they were Scotch-Irish, and in at least one case, they supported the wrong side in a war.

Why does this comment not surprise me? The apple doesn’t fall far from the proverbial tree.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 6:50 PM
Comment #397590

I often hear the phrase “birthright citizenship” from my leftie friends. They read the 14th amendment and cite it as their authority.

Sadly, they never read beyond the first comma. I suggest they dig a little deeper and fully understand that there is no birthright citizenship granted by the constitution.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 6:53 PM
Comment #397591

C&J said to Royal:

We should work to make our laws function.

You either believe this, or your just talking; but then you say to me:

We really are not going to be able to deport the ones we have here now nor are we able to repeal birthright citizenship (even if we wanted). So we have a situation where it is all baked in.

I’m just gonna take a shot in the dark at this one; but what if we really do enforce our laws. Laws that hold employers accountable for hiring illegals, or perhaps laws that if an illegal is caught by the police without papers…ICE deports him. How long do you think illegals will hang around in the US when they have no money to send home to their relatives? I would say, not very long. If we enforce existing laws; we won’t have to round up and deport them. SS benefits, healthcare benefits, housing benefits, and food stamps benefits are all reasons for illegals to stay in the US. THE POLITICIANS ARE USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO MAKE ILLEGALS WANT TO STAY; what part of that comment doesn’t register with the left and with RINO’s?

This is what the conservative voters want. We want a candidate who is not afraid of political correctness.


Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:05 PM
Comment #397592

Blaine

Some things you just cannot have. The logistics of massive deportations are beyond what we could do, even if we had the political will and we do not.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 7:08 PM
Comment #397593

Sorry C/J, Blaine is right. Take away employers willing to hire illegals and the benefits showered upon them and they will find their own way back across the border.

C/J writes; “repeal birthright citizenship.”

No need to repeal, it doesn’t exist.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 7:19 PM
Comment #397595

Bingo C&J, you say “Some things we just cannot have”;

These are the very things Trump is saying we can have. Try to understand why Trump is so popular, and try real hard to understand why the candidates who are identifying with Trump are also coming up in the polls. You say we can’t do anything about the illegal situation that is costing us billions and will only go up. But Trump says we can, and this is what the American people want to hear.

Add to this the fact that the conservative voter does not trust establishment republicans. Bush is part of this group. These RINO’s have thrown their lot in with the defeatist who say “it can’t be done”. This is why Boehner and McConnell are so unpopular. They talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. The American voters are becoming wise to the BS.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:30 PM
Comment #397597

I want to say something else; I’m no politician. I’m just a common person in middle America, but I do come in contact with a lot of people each week, from many states. People of all persuasions, and except for just a handful, I’m saying to you what I hear. People are fed up with politics as usual. Obama ran on this very thing in 08; but he turned out to be just another lying politician. I talk to Democrats, who voted for Obama, and they are not like the leftist on WB. They are also disillusioned; and they want something real.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:37 PM
Comment #397600

Blaine

Trump is promising things neither he, nor anyone else could deliver.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 8:01 PM
Comment #397602

C&J, you are losing this debate. It doesn’t matter what Trump promises; the American people understand that Congress has to pass laws. That is unless you are King Obama, and then you just bypass Congress. It’s not what he is promising…he is controlling the talking points of the debate. He is forcing the candidates to answer yea or nay on some politically incorrect points. Would we be talking illegal immigrants, if it weren’t for Trump. Bush is losing because he is using the same old tried and tested talking points on immigration. But I noticed you have failed to agree or disagree that enforcing existing laws would cause immigrants to leave of their own free will.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 8:09 PM
Comment #397603

The 14th amendment begins with this: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

It is cut and dried. Sadly, when Trump announced it did not apply to ‘anchor babies,’ about half the GOP field meekly repeated his stand.

This alone convinces me that the exceptionally weak field of Republican presidential candidates is going to get rolled by Trump. Trump is completely and totally dominating them. I can’t even believe the country has come to this.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 8:25 PM
Comment #397604

So I’m guessing a no vote from you for Trump.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 8:43 PM
Comment #397605

Blaine, if you were going in for brain surgery, and I announced that instead of Dr Ben Carson, Senator Cruz would be doing the surgery, would that be acceptable to you? After all, Cruz is very intelligent. He has won a seat in the Senate and is currently a candidate for his party’s nominee as president of the United States. So would it be ok if he did some studying up and operated on your brain?

I’m sure you see my point. Neither Trump nor Carson know anything about the Executive Branch of government on either a state or national level. Neither has ever served in a legislature or passed a law- not locally, not in a state, not nationally. Neither has served on a court as a judge.

If you owned your own business, you would not hire a person with no experience whatsoever in the trade, no even if they were smart and promised to study and were successful in an unrelated field. The idea that we would elect a person with no experience in government to the highest office in the land is not just ludicrous, it is scary.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 8:53 PM
Comment #397606

This is coming from someone who supported a novice whose only experience was as a community organizer. You speak of executive experience; perhaps you could tell us what executive experience Obama had? If you’re going to have a conversation, at least have the decency to be serious. And I might add that putting Obama in the highest office was not only ludicrous, it has been downright scary.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 9:26 PM
Comment #397607

ph, President Carter comes to mind.

We can fling spittle and hot breathe all over our laptops but it won’t change the fact that we are in the hands of two political parties that are in the hands of the Corpocracy.

Trump tells it like it is and the folks like to hear it, knowing that, in the long run, Trump can’t do anything to help the situation.

From today’s FED page we learn that thousands of folks with high incomes are living in HUD housing. A NY family living in a HUD home reported an income of near $500K. One fellow from Oxford, NB had $1.6M in assets and lives in a one-bedroom apt at $300/mo.

HUD’s respons: HUD encourages all incomes to live in HUD as it creates a diverse neighborhood. HUD only checks incomes during the application process. “Forcing families to leave could impact their ability to to maintain employment - - - “

“Further, for families with children, it may be more difficult to find affordable child care, and it may impact children’s learning if they are forced to change schools during a school year.”

The Corpocracy generates all these laws/regs and seldom/never enforces or looks back.

Gov’t is broken and won’t be easy to fix. Trump is the flea crawling up the elephants leg.

A start would be to force the FED to agree to support Article V Convention, a slow but decisive process to reform.

Another way would be to stand up a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att with rules to shunt special interest money and hold politicians feet to the fire.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at August 19, 2015 9:43 PM
Comment #397608

Don’t be silly. Government is about laws. Obama lectured on constitutional law. He had legislative experience as both a state and federal Senator.

Maybe you missed this, but his administration saved the economy, got us out of two wars, and killed Bin Laden. There is no inflation, historically low interest rates, a recovered housing market, and people’s 401k’s have recovered their losses, thanks to the stock markets setting new highs- all while reducing the annual deficit every single year of his term. Oh. He also killed conservative candidates in two separate elections, winning more than 50% of the vote twice.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 9:44 PM
Comment #397609

ph, ahh, now you’re cheating. You distinctly said executive experience, and now you tell us of Obama’s legislative experience. How could Obama be a constitutional law professor, when he has violated the constitution so many times. Don’t waste our time; you will never convince us of Obama’s accomplishments. He has none. He’s a worse failure than Carter.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 11:33 PM
Comment #397610

Trump isn’t “telling it like it is,” Roy. He is telling it like some people would like to hear it. There is a difference.

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 11:35 PM
Comment #397611

“…when he has violated the constitution so many times.”

This is stated as though it were fact. Care to mention the Supreme Court cases finding Obama in violation of the Constitution? I will help you out a little bit with an article from FactCheck on the oft repeated claims. The short version: it ain’t true. http://www.factcheck.org/2014/07/obama-and-executive-overreach/

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 11:46 PM
Comment #397612

So, Blaine, I’m in the mood for a conspiracy theory. How do you explain how the Obama administration created the second longest bull market in American history? How do you explain 64 consecutive months of private sector job growth- the longest in American history! How do you explain the low interest rates?

Most people consider these to be good things.

I predicted Cruz would win the nomination, but Trump looks stronger every day. The apocalypse is nigh!

Posted by: phx8 at August 20, 2015 1:50 AM
Comment #397613

ph, I’m no economist, but I think the printing of money has something to do with it. He has tripled the national debt in 6 1/2 years. Interest rates are controlled by the Feds. The unemployment numbers are bogus. The gdp is pitiful. It’s a shame you bounce from one subject to another, trying to find something Obama has done that has made American’s lives better. There isn’t anything. Answer the question about his executive experience. You said Trump and Cruz had no executive experience, implying that Obama did.

Posted by: Blaine at August 20, 2015 8:54 AM
Comment #397614

RCP average Polls:

Obama’s numbers have remained steady; approval 49.7 and disapproval 44.5.

Direction of the country; right direction 28.4 and wrong direction 62.6.

Approvals on foreign policy: approval 39 disapproval 51.2

Approval on the economy; approval 45.2 disapproval 49.3

So Obama stays in the negatives consistently.

Employment numbers are fudged and GDP numbers are fudged by changing the equations by which the numbers are determined.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-real-unemployment-numbers-are-worse-than-you-are-being-told

http://www.cnsnews.com/video/cnsnews/peter-schiff-gdp-numbers-fudged

Posted by: Blaine at August 20, 2015 9:33 AM
Comment #397615

Sorry, this is correct number:

Obama’s numbers have remained steady; approval 44.5 and disapproval 49.7.

Posted by: Blaine at August 20, 2015 9:35 AM
Comment #397616

Blaine,
Obama had no prior experience in the Executive Branch of government. He did have prior experience in the Legislative Branch of government at both the state and federal levels.

If the government were printing money there would be inflation. There is no inflation. Gold is stable and in a slow downtrend. Try again.

GDP is running at a sustainable 2% clip.

The unemployment numbers are bogus? I see. You know what? I bet the scientists are doing it! They are already engaged in an international conspiracy to foist the hoax of Global Warming upon the world in order to promote socialism and weaken America. If they manufacturing all that fake evidence and all those false observations, it would be easy enough to fake statistics about the US unemployment rate.

That’s the ticket!

Apparently Peter Schiff thinks GDP numbers are fudged. According to Wikipedia, “Since 2009, Schiff has been predicting future skyrocketing gold prices, sharp increases to consumer prices, hyperinflation, poor returns for the US stock market, a bond bubble that is set to collapse, and the collapse of the U.S. dollar. In 2014, Schiff began advising people to relocate to Puerto Rico to take advantage of the territory’s tax laws.”

Seriously, you do not get much more wrong than Peter Schiff. Here we are in 2015 and gold prices did not skyrocket, consumer prices did not sharply increase, there has been no inflation, never mind hyperinflation; the stock market more than doubled, the bond market is steady, and the dollar has been incredibly strong. Relocate to Puerto Rico? They are on the verge of defaulting on their debt.

The ‘economic collapse’ article depends on you not understanding the Labor Force Participation Rate. It does not represent the unemployment rate so much as demographic trends in the work force. The Boomers are retiring and the Millenials are staying in school longer to purse graduate degrees. The current Rate is projected to drop below 60% in the next 15 years.

You don’t need to be an economist to recognize a conspiracy theory. And the truth is, a lot of conservatives buy into conspiracy theories, just like you. The numbers about approval ratings are a good example. Of course, disapproving of the economy or Obama might be more of a comment on income inequality and the unbridled power of corporations than anything else.

Posted by: phx8 at August 20, 2015 11:33 AM
Comment #397617

phx8 writes; “The 14th amendment begins with this: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

It is cut and dried.”

Not really. A little research will prove differently. Here’s just one sample. Do some research.

“It is just plain wrong to claim that the children born of parents temporarily in the country as students or tourists are automatically U.S. citizens: They do not meet the 14th Amendment’s jurisdictional allegiance obligations. They are, in fact, subject to the political jurisdiction (and allegiance) of the country of their parents. The same applies to the children of illegal aliens because children born in the United States to foreign citizens are citizens of their parents’ home country.”

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/14/birthright-citizenship-fundamental-misunderstanding-th-amendment.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 20, 2015 12:38 PM
Comment #397618

“Obama lectured on constitutional law.”

And Rev. Wright lectured on Christianity.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 20, 2015 12:44 PM
Comment #397619

You said Trump and Cruz had no executive experience, implying that Obama did.
Posted by: Blaine at August 20, 2015 8:54 AM

Blaine, what phx8 does is similar to turning on the lights and trying to catch the roaches. They both scurry away.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 20, 2015 12:48 PM
Comment #397653

Not only does he turn the lights on to try to catch the roaches; but he changes the subject when he doesn’t want or can’t answer a question, and he plays the old leftist game of attacking the research, the person, or denying the polls. Nothing new here.

Posted by: Blaine at August 20, 2015 5:49 PM
Comment #397674

Blaine both Rich and and phx8 have given you facts to counter the myths you continue to spew. Lets take your comment “and he plays the old leftist game of attacking the research, the person,” as an example. Name one thing phx8 quoted about Schiff that is not a fact. Yet you use this guy and his “research” as some kind of proof. Then despite being proved wrong you whine about it and accuse phx8 of playing a game! Where is your decency?

Or lets try “How could Obama be a constitutional law professor, when he has violated the constitution so many times.” Rich linked to a site that researched the myth and after doing so determined you are wrong your comment is wrong and yet you continue to blame others who counter your lies with facts. you evade responding to facts by blaming others of doing so.

You were wrong about Obama and his experience earlier in this thread, the facts have been presented to you, and you are wrong now, when do you stop with the lies?

Posted by: j2t2 at August 20, 2015 10:09 PM
Comment #397675

j2t2,
That is what happens when a person goes down the conspiracy rabbit hole. It begins to seem like everyone is in on the conspiracy- economists, statisticians, investors, the Federal Reserve, pollsters, the media, and most of the world’s scientists.

Recently ADP Research reported the lowest weekly unemployment claims in 40 years. This is a separate organization with a separate number from the federal government’s numbers. So… they must be in on the conspiracy too.

Next thing you know, Donald Trump seems to make perfect sense. Never mind that his ‘policy’ positions amount to little more than notions and fantasies. Does he answer questions about specifics? No. Does he cite reliable sources? No. And why should Trump even bother? His base could not care less. It is all about what Colbert called ‘truthiness.’ It is all about that feeling in the gut that justifies almost anything; as for facts, well, they just get in the way.

Posted by: phx8 at August 20, 2015 10:30 PM
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