I would not vote for Trump

Trump appeals because he says stupid things that lots of people would like to say just to rile people up. It is the same urge that comes with a Dirty Harry movie. In real life you would not want this guy blasting away on the streets, but it is cathartic to see the bad guys get what they have coming. Trump gets to say any dumb thing that pops into his mind and we would all like to have that power. It appeals to that general anger you cannot quite explain. Trump, BTW, does not appeal only to Republicans. Democrats happily quote him when he says something about Republican candidates.

I do not admire Trump. He is rich because he inherited a lot of money and because he has learned to use the political system & abuse bankruptcy laws as an offensive weapon. It is not free market that made him rich. He is an example of crony capitalism.

Chances of Trump being nominated are small. The lines of Macbeth come to mind. Trump is like that tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

He is taping into anger. We see this anger on the left and the right. And extremes of both sides have a lot in common. Bernie Sanders espouses old fashioned socialism, where they state calls the shots and picks winners and losers. Trump is not that different. His career is not based on free market principles. He works in the context of crony capitalism. All his big projects were based on the savvy use of political power and influence. He avoided the consequences of his failures by aggressive use of bankruptcy laws. So Bernie and Donald are actually two sides of the same coin. The triumph of either would be a serious blow to actual liberty.

Anyway, I will not vote for Trump, but I am not very worried that I will get the opportunity. Republicans will be too smart to nominate Trump. Democrats, in contrast, will be nominating Hillary. I can say with moral certainty that I will not vote for Trump or Hillary. If they ran against each other, I would stay home or maybe even vote for Bernie. He is wrong about most things, but at least he seems pleasant about it.

Posted by Christine & John at August 17, 2015 5:26 PM
Comments
Comment #397504

“He is taping into anger. We see this anger on the left and the right. And extremes of both sides have a lot in common.”

You’re right John, the country is angry. And, most of the other candidates don’t give a shit that they are the very reason for the anger. I could vote for Trump in a heartbeat if nominated.

You write; “All his big projects were based on the savvy use of political power and influence. He avoided the consequences of his failures by aggressive use of bankruptcy laws.”

Good Grief John, that’s what a president does…uses political power and influence. What the hell is your definition of “aggressive”? Legal…not legal.

Obama aggressively abuses our constitution. Give me Trump any day.

One on one interviews I have watched and listened too reveal a much deeper layer to Trump than you apparently appreciate.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 17, 2015 7:34 PM
Comment #397505

Royal

Presidents use political power. Business leaders are not supposed to do that. That is crony capitalism. It is what we hate about Obama.

Posted by: C&J at August 17, 2015 7:41 PM
Comment #397506

John…are you writing that no successful business person should be president because they understand and use the system?

I am a realist and understand that electing another belt-way entrenched politician will be business as usual.

Trump is cut from a different mold that the usual politician. Americans like that. He will at least try and fix the problems that make us so angry.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 17, 2015 7:49 PM
Comment #397507

What is the difference between the weasel Graham and what other candidates, specifically Trump, say? Politicians have some of the biggest mirrors to practice in front of. They practice the grin and the teeth to show something they are probably hiding. They practice the stroll and strut. They practice the head movement and the pursing of the lips. They practice the stress on certain words and the movement of the head in saying those words. The mirror is certainly an important tool to use in politics. I would guess that some of them spend thousands of dollars on them and then they need them everywhere they go.

And now the narcissist gang. Some of those people are so stuck on themselves they could not get out that rut if their life depended on.

Do some of these GOP candidates really believe they have any kind of chance at winning the nomination? For instance Santorum, Huckabee, Graham, Pataki, Paul, and I suppose some of those others that are fence sitters.

Posted by: tom humes at August 17, 2015 8:05 PM
Comment #397508

Royal

There is using the system and abusing the system.

I think that there is a problem with businessmen turned politician when they want to go right to the top. The skills are fungible, but not completely the same.

Trump is a good example. He is used to just doing what he wants. In government you do not get to do that. That is what we dislike about Obama. The technical term was used in our declaration of independence. It is usurpation.

Our founding fathers set up a system that resists quick action. It was not a mistake or an oversight. A president does not get to make policy all by himself.

Trump is also very good at personal attacks. This reminds of us Obama, but even more of Putin.

Think of Ronald Reagan. He was a strong leader with very particular ideas and goals. But he did not attack personally and he did brag about his own prowess being better than anyone else. Reagan also learned to use the mechanism of government by working in elected offices from his union days, to the work as governor.

Now consider Trumps self proclaimed selling point. He will fund his own campaign. Sounds good. But consider what campaign donating do (beyond give money). It means that the candidate must appeal to a reasonably wide variety of donors. We can call this pandering, but it could also be seen as trimming your ideas to fit a group larger than yourself.

It is very easy to identify problems and Trump has done that. It is much harder to identify sustainable solutions. Sustainable in our democratic system means that it has wide support, not imposed by one strong individual.

We all are beguiled by the man who rides up on a white horse to save us. But this is what happens in movies, not in life.

I would not vote for Trump. He does not have a team that he has built the old fashion way. He has a team he has paid for.

Posted by: C&J at August 17, 2015 8:05 PM
Comment #397514

“He has a team he has paid for.”

That could be said of most politicians. Some employ a staff. Some bring supporters aboard with the expectation that the support will be rewarded with a position in the administration. Some pay millions of dollars in exchange for favors.

There are exceptions. The Sanders campaign is mostly funded by small donors and supported by enthusiastic volunteers. By some strange coincidence, it is the only campaign drawing huge crowds.

Trump dwarfs his rivals by being entertaining. He has no policies. He has no ideas. He just spouts fantasy. Whatever pops into his head becomes his stand on an issue.
There are so many ridiculous statements, it’s hard to even know where to start. The funny thing is, the other presidential candidates often as not say the same absurd things. Everyone has to go over the top to attract attention in a field of 17 dwarves. They jump up and down and make ludicrous statements. Conspiracy theories are considered perfectly acceptable fare.

Of course, it’s only August. Some of the campaigns will die. The field will shrink. But Trump will still be in there. According to the latest poll, Trump and Carson and Cruz command 47% of the vote right now.

Conservatives, you brought this on yourselves. You tolerated Birthers like Trump. You called Obama “lawless” and “unconstitutional” for no particular reason; you accuse Obama of making “personal attacks” (Does anyone have any idea what this refers to? Generally speaking, presidents do not refer to individuals when they are critical). Some of you cheered the Citizens United decision made by the conservatives justices on the Supreme Court. Conspiracy theories abound among conservatives- skewed polls, fixed unemployment numbers, Global Warming, you name it. It is routine and it runs rampant. You stoked the fires of nativism and now conservatives are calling for the repeal of birthright citizenship, including Trump.

You did not stand up. You did not have the courage to stand up. You failed to reject the crazies, you quietly went along with them, and now they are running the asylum, and the top three polling candidates are embarrassing spectacles.

Welcome, Donald Trump.
Welcome, Dr. Ben Carson.
Welcome, Senator Cruz.

Posted by: phx8 at August 18, 2015 12:19 PM
Comment #397515

A new poll by CNN just came out:

Trump 24%
Bush 13%
Carson 9%

And if there was ever a candidate bought and paid for, it would be the feckless Jeb:-o

Cheer up, conservatives. HRC loves the big money too. It might end up HRC v Jeb:-(

That is the one positive about Trump. No one owns him, but his stands on issues are, shall we say, unpredictable.

BTW, No one owns Sanders. He is relentlessly on message about issues and his platform is very specific. And just to repeat myself, he is the only one drawing big crowds.

Posted by: phx8 at August 18, 2015 1:06 PM
Comment #397516

LOL!

Conspiracy theories abound among Conservatives? The 2000 Election, 9-11, War for Oil, War for Revenge, War for Corporations, Coming Theocracy, War on Women, White People Hunting Down and Murdering Black People, The Evil 1% Plot to Rule the World, Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy to Destroy the Clintons, Racism Behind EVERY Corner, Police State etc…
But a blowhard addressing our massive illegal alien problem is what people should be focusing on?

liberals support a President who intentionally divides the people amongst themselves, tolerate the OWS joke, and embrace racists like BLM. Your top candidate lies her rear off and not trusted. The dude right on her heels is a self avowed socialist.
But the two dudes preaching the Constitution are the embarrassing spectacles?

Freaking priceless Phx8.

Posted by: kctim at August 18, 2015 1:09 PM
Comment #397517

Sorry kctim, I don’t even know what conspiracies you are referring to. Must be some sort of conservative shorthand. Just throw it out there and pretend everyone accepts it because conservatives have been repeating it to each other for so long, why, it MUST be true!

What is the War for Revenge? What is the OWS joke? Who is BLM? Most of the rest I can guess.

Socialism works! Examples: Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Schools, Roads and bridges, Policeman, Fireman, and First Responders- all examples of socialism in practice.

Should we be focusing on Trump? No. Are we? Unquestionably. He constantly appears in the media because he is such a spectacle. Meanwhile, Sanders is virtually ignored, other than to mention he is a socialist, he is drawing huge crowds, he addresses economic inequality, and that he has no chance of winning. We are told that again and again and again, just in case Americans start getting any ideas.

Posted by: phx8 at August 18, 2015 1:47 PM
Comment #397518

Tom wrote; ” Politicians have some of the biggest mirrors to practice in front of.”

And Tom, some have self portraits in their attic.

C/J, Trump is certainly not a Ronald Reagan. But then, who is?

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 2:01 PM
Comment #397519

“Socialism works! Socialism works! Examples: Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Schools, Roads and bridges, Policeman, Fireman, and First Responders- all examples of socialism in practice.”

Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security are all deep in red ink. Their combined unfunded liability greatly exceeds our national debt.

Public Schools, Roads and bridges are failing in many instances.

Policeman are reviled by many on the Left.

Fireman in many small cities are volunteers.

First Responders are provided by hospitals in many areas.

The most commonly used definition of Socialism is:

“a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 2:14 PM
Comment #397520

Both Trump and Reagan are actors. But Trump never sold weapons to the Iranians.

Posted by: phx8 at August 18, 2015 2:18 PM
Comment #397521

Sorry, but I think C&J’s comment echo the Republican establishment. I would most certainly vote for Trump if he is nominated. The Republican heads are trying to figure out how to destroy Trump instead of finding out how he connecting to voters. Yes, Trump is a blow hard; he loves to brag about his accomplishments. But at least he has some. What accomplishments does Hillary have? Why, the same as Obama, since she is tied to his failed presidency. So she has none. Hillary is in the death throws. The only candidate who would come close to understanding the conservatives is Cruz; and you will notice Cruz has not spent his time blasting Trump. The people in flyover country are fed up with spineless Republicans and socialist Democrats who are trying their best to act like each other. Do I believe that Trump will get the nomination…not really; but not for the same reasons as C&J. If Cruz adopts the Trump platform, he will win. The Washington insiders do not have any idea what the American people feel. Trump does not care about being PC, and he doesn’t care about people who lobby. He is paying his own way and it is killing Republicans and Democrats who live to please their donors. A president can do nothing (Constitutionally) unless it first goes through the Congress. So for candidates to say the will repeal obamacare or do something about illegal immigrants is nothing more than hot air. Trump, on the other hand would tell Congress what he wanted and then he would go to the American people and hand out phone numbers to call their representatives. Trump would truly use the bully pulpit. Rush Limbaugh stated today that the Republican candidates (Cruz and Walker at first) are starting to become the me-too crowd, slowly identifying themselves with some of the things Trump is saying. Jeb Bush is the stand alone Republican establishment candidate and for that reason will fail miserably.

Posted by: Blaine at August 18, 2015 2:40 PM
Comment #397522

Many believe that we need more immigrants, whether legal or illegal, to the US. With mandates to increase the minimum wage we are further enticing more of both.

Is this really a plan to benefit middle-class American citizens? If yes, please explain.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 3:06 PM
Comment #397523

This country is not angry. There is a distinct 20% of people that are angry about just about anything they can think of. This 20% is an affluent bunch that seems to have access to the internet with a lot of time on their hands and just loves to tell everyone else how angry they are using their keyboards. The majority of this country’s citizens are to busy working, earning a living, paying bills, raising children and contributing in a positive way to the betterment of their lives and the people’s lives that they care about. The angry 20% makes lots of noise but signifies absolutely nothing. Trump is counting on that 20%, that is why he makes such crazy statements. He knows all about them and will continue to use their anger. But that 20% can never ever be satisfied. Thank goodness the 20% will never ever be able to accomplish much also but it is a pity that they don’t realize that and try to do something more with their lives then to be angry. Their loss.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 18, 2015 3:20 PM
Comment #397524

Speak…you should have began your fairy tale with “I believe”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 3:35 PM
Comment #397525

Come on Phx8, those are all leftist conspiracies and you know you’ve heard them all before.

War for Revenge? Bush went to war to get Saddam for trying to kill his dad.
What is the OWS joke? The occupy Wall Street losers.
Who is BLM? The racist group called Black Lives Matter.

Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Schools: ALL involuntary, which means no choice. You may believe the loss of freedom of choice ‘works,’ but I value it way too much to believe that.

Roads and bridges: Both which would be fine under local, state and other taxation.

Policeman, Fireman, and First Responders- all examples of socialism in practice: No, they are not. You see, people CHOOSE to pay for those services by voluntarily choosing where they live.

“He constantly appears in the media because he is such a spectacle.”

BFD. He’s the flavor of the month. Would you rather he be appearing in the media all the time because he was lying or under investigations?

“Meanwhile, Sanders is virtually ignored, other than to mention he is a socialist,”

That’s your people ignoring him, my friend. And he isn’t being ignored because he is an anti American dipsh1t socialist, he’s being ignored because it’s Queen Hillary’s turn to rule.

Posted by: kctim at August 18, 2015 3:52 PM
Comment #397526

Speak,
Are people angry? I don’t think that word sums it all up. They are also fueled by hatred and bigotry. Because one of the most remarkable things about Trump is how often he openly appeals to hatred and bigotry, and how often his supporters ignore it, even while the rest of the populace objects. They have been encouraged by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, and FOX. Now they find they have created a Frankenstein, and no one can find the off switch.

Blaine,
Interesting. I originally predicted Cruz would win. I made that prediction because I thought Cruz would be the most extreme and radical, and in this upcoming election that is what I believed it would take to win. I agree, conservatives are fed up with establishment candidates like McCain, Romney, and now Jeb$. But I never imagined just how extreme the race would be.

Holding a majority in Congress does not mean the GOP can do whatever it wants. The filibuster still applies in the Senate, and the President can still veto legislation. That is not a good reason to be angry or frustrated. The best solution is to craft compromises. Trump is fond of saying he will make deals. Who knows, maybe someday we will find out.

kctim,
“Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Public Schools: ALL involuntary…”

And that makes sense, since none of us has any choice about health and ageing. We all need health care. We all need provisions for old age. History shows us most people are unable to make such provisions. Before social security, old age was something to be feared.

Education is fundamental to the ability of our society to function. So are policemen and firemen.

Road and bridges can be funded by states and municipalities, but larger projects and interstate projects require cooperation and large amounts of capital, and that is where the federal government comes in.

Sanders is not being ignored because of Hillary. He is being ignored by the media because of his message. He is also being discounted because Hillary has such an impressive nationwide political organization, and she has a lot of money, and she and her husband have a history of running a very successful eight-year administration.

Posted by: phx8 at August 18, 2015 4:12 PM
Comment #397527

“I will save the average American family over $2500 per year in health care premiums”. So said the socialist.

“If you like your health care plan you can keep it.” So said the socialist.

“If you like your doctor you can keep him/her.” So said the socialist.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 4:43 PM
Comment #397528

Phx8

How about some examples of how Trump openly appeals to real hatred and bigotry? And no, wanting to protect our borders and deport people who are here illegally, is not hatred and/or bigotry.

Giving up your freedom of choice for comfort and convenience is something YOU think makes sense. Others do not.

“Sanders is not being ignored because of Hillary.”

Keep dreaming. The very fact that Hillary is stealing his talking-points that poll well, is proof enough that the message has little to do with him being ignored by the media. He11, if anything, Sanders message isn’t left wing crazy enough.

Posted by: kctim at August 18, 2015 4:45 PM
Comment #397529

Royal and kctim,

We certainly do practice socialism in a very significant way in the US. The examples cited by phx8 are unquestioned as fundamental and necessary functions of a first world government.

Sure, you could move to some rural area of the US and avoid taxation for police, fire, hospital, EMS services, roads, water and sewer, public schools, etc. But, you would be the extraordinary exception. The vast majority recognize the value of collective and involuntary funding of essential services.

As for Social Security and Medicare, try to get those repealed. There is a reason that they are referred to as the third rail in politics. Even the Tea Party types would abandon you at that point.

Posted by: Rich at August 18, 2015 5:22 PM
Comment #397530

phx8, I used angry but could have used a lot of other words too. Hatred, bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia, and many more words could be used but I fear conservatives and Republicans have armored themselves against the use of those words by saying that it is just liberals trying to ridicule them and their staunch beliefs. They seem impervious to the implications of the statements and divisiveness that they use to express their anger. I chose the word angry so as not to give them the avenues to dismiss the idea as some liberals politically correct adjective that they find all to easy to dismiss. I doubt that it will mean much to that angry 20% because they really don’t care what we think about their prejudices and just want to vent about them. Instead of using introspection to determine if they have indeed used prejudicial behavior in coming to their conclusions they demand proof and demand answers to their wild accusatory statements. I didn’t expect any of the angry 20% to really understand my comment but I did want them to try to understand the futility of their anger as their 20% number should point to how ineffective they are and will be. Nothing can assuage their anger, hatred, bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia, etc., etc, nothing.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 18, 2015 5:30 PM
Comment #397532

“As for Social Security and Medicare, try to get those repealed.”

Not my intention Rich. Simply examples of failed Socialism.

Our education system, roads, bridges are certainly not world class despite the trillions spent on them. Example of socialism on steroids. The more we spend, the worse they get.

Paying capable people not to work is perhaps the worst of Socialism. Surely we can find some work for the capable in community service to provide them with some semblance of dignity. Pure Socialism would at least do that.

Speaks writes of the “angry 20%.” I wonder where he got that percentage from. Perhaps from the same dark place most of his zany proclamations come from.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 5:45 PM
Comment #397533

Rich

The point is that there is a choice when it comes to police, fire, hospital, EMS services, roads, water and sewer, public schools, etc…
As far as SS and Medicare, you are correct in that they aren’t going anywhere. People are way to lazy and dependent on them. The point was that there is no choice when it comes to those things.

Anybody who pays attention knows that we threw away most of the Constitution and now have a hybrid form of government. They also know that alone is the reason we are in the mess we are in.
The election of a nut like Sanders would only push us closer to throwing the whole thing away.

Posted by: kctim at August 18, 2015 5:55 PM
Comment #397534

Tim wrote; “The point is that there is a choice when it comes to police, fire, hospital, EMS services, roads, water and sewer, public schools, etc…”

Correct Tim. And, we hire local people to perform those services for us. If we don’t like the performance we fire those responsible.

Please relate that to SS, Medicare and Medicaid. All three are deep in red ink. Who was fired? We change politicians but these three social programs just keep chugging along on the road to bankruptcy.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 6:07 PM
Comment #397535

C/J wrote; “Trump appeals because he says stupid things that lots of people would like to say just to rile people up.”

Really? People are already riled up C/J, and it wasn’t Trump that did the riling.

Trump is speaking for middle America…the working class, who fear for their jobs, their children, and their nation.

Can you tell me who else speaks for them convincingly and follows up with action?

It seems as though any disgruntled group in America has a support group whose sole aim is to take away someone else’s money or rights.

From the Left we are told that unions are necessary to protect jobs and promote fair wage and labor practices. What union exists to protect every American citizens job from being taken by an illegal?

We are told we must educate, feed, house, and provide medical care for aliens at the expense of American citizens who labor trying to provide for their own family.

Our political class has brought us needless war, needless debt, and needless domestic strife.

It won’t be the political class that brings our country back to its former freedom, liberty and greatness.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 18, 2015 7:09 PM
Comment #397537

Royal

Trump willfully misunderstands.

Take the example of birth right citizenship. It is Constitutional. No president can change it. We get lots of ink spilt over nothing.

Beyond that, Hispanic immigration is yesterday’s topic. Birthrates south of the border have dropped like a rock. It is ending.

Posted by: C&J at August 18, 2015 8:21 PM
Comment #397543

“Trump willfully misunderstands.”

No, he willfully misrepresents.

Posted by: Rich at August 18, 2015 9:56 PM
Comment #397544

If and when the US economy picks up again I believe we will see a return to heavy people movement across the border.

Birthright citizenship may be the law but doesn’t mean we can’t work to curtail those institutions supporting the practice of flying in from China to have a baby, and similar.

While the country did need immigration in the past that is no longer the case. We do need a good worker visa program.

Let’s get our story straight. How is it helping foreign countries if we take their brightest and workers from them? We are suffering globalisation to bring other countries up to speed, are we not? So, why would we want to send our best jobs overseas and steal their brightest and best workers.

I think taxpayers/voters just do not care. They are willing to let the corpocracy drive the wagon.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at August 18, 2015 10:00 PM
Comment #397546

Roy,
“While the country did need immigration in the past that is no longer the case.”

We need immigrants to counter the demographic trend. The country is ageing. More and more boomers are retiring, and there are not enough Millenials. Immigration is the perfect long-term solution.

One interesting thing about Trump that no one has mentioned-he sees almost everything through the prism of his business experience. The Iran negotiation is a bad contract that he will make work to his advantage. He likes to talk about being touch on trade and how he will make deals. It’s all very vague, but still oriented around a business perspective. Like most very rich people, he cares little for the social issues. Why should he? So when it comes to those, his answers are pragmatic.

He is peculiarly misogynistic. I don’t know why. What kind of heterosexual guy would even think of putting down Heidi Klum’s looks? It’s just inexplicable.

He drew attention to himself in 2012 by being a Birther- by pumping an inherently racist conspiracy theory. In 2016 his campaign took off when he said this:

“They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.”

He added that he assumed “some of them” were good people. And that put the Frankenstein monster in motion.

So “Making America Great Again” seems to harken back to an unspecified time when white males were in charge, women were judged by their looks, and there weren’t all those foreign people clambering to get into the country, or rip us off through trade deals. It envisions a world of a few smart winners and a lot of stupid losers, a fantasy world without nuance, in which foreign policy difficulties can be resolved by bullying and force.

It does not reflect on us well as a country that this message resonates with so many.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 12:02 AM
Comment #397548

Speaks comments abut the anger of the country:

This country is not angry. There is a distinct 20% of people that are angry about just about anything they can think of. This 20% is an affluent bunch that seems to have access to the internet with a lot of time on their hands and just loves to tell everyone else how angry they are using their keyboards. The majority of this country’s citizens are to busy working, earning a living, paying bills, raising children and contributing in a positive way to the betterment of their lives and the people’s lives that they care about. The angry 20% makes lots of noise but signifies absolutely nothing. Trump is counting on that 20%, that is why he makes such crazy statements. He knows all about them and will continue to use their anger. But that 20% can never ever be satisfied. Thank goodness the 20% will never ever be able to accomplish much also but it is a pity that they don’t realize that and try to do something more with their lives then to be angry. Their loss.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 18, 2015 3:20 PM

I chose the word angry so as not to give them the avenues to dismiss the idea as some liberals politically correct adjective that they find all to easy to dismiss. I doubt that it will mean much to that angry 20% because they really don’t care what we think about their prejudices and just want to vent about them. Instead of using introspection to determine if they have indeed used prejudicial behavior in coming to their conclusions they demand proof and demand answers to their wild accusatory statements. I didn’t expect any of the angry 20% to really understand my comment but I did want them to try to understand the futility of their anger as their 20% number should point to how ineffective they are and will be. Nothing can assuage their anger, hatred, bigotry, misogyny, xenophobia, etc., etc, nothing.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 18, 2015 5:30 PM

Let me say a few things about speaks comments:

1. First; if the 20% are the affluent bunch that have access to the internet; are we talking about leftist Democrats who show their anger when writing on blog sites like WB? It doesn’t take long to see the anger in the writing of liberal bloggers.

2. Secondly, regarding the majority of Americans working and providing, blah, blah, blah; this comment is easily debunked because it is mainly Democrats who are unemployed, drawing welfare, or involved in anger protests, i.e. BLM and Wall Street Protests.

3. Thirdly, speaks tries to make it sound like only 20% of conservatives who support Trump are angry; but he seems to forget the Democrats who are supporting Sanders. In NH, Sanders is ahead of Clinton and in IA, he is running close. If these people were not angry, then why aren’t they supporting Hillary. We now have to listen to a leftist accuse conservatives of being angry, simply because they support Trump.

4. Lastly, I would say many people in America are upset with the status quo; Democrats are upset that Clinton is falling like a rock in the polls, they are upset that they don’t have a real choice in who is being anointed by the Democratic Party, and if they weren’t upset, why are they supporting Sanders. Likewise, Republicans are upset that the Republican Party insists on running RINO’s and not conservatives. You can call this anger, and you can say the only ones angry are the 20% who support Trump; but I personally think you pulled these numbers out of your rear end and have no proof. I say the numbers of people upset (on both sides) with their government is much higher and my proof is a Congress who has had a 12-17% approval rating for many years.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:10 AM
Comment #397549

Regarding the left’s make believe outrage over Trump’s remarks about illegal immigrants:

Does the left support the low income workers in America or not? Is it not the left who calls for minimum wage increases for the American workers? Don’t the left support unions and their members? Then why would the left support the influx of illegal immigrants who take low paying jobs?

Does the left not believe that corporate America is the cause of all problems? They are upset that corporations would be classified as people, they are upset that corporate America does not pay their fair share of taxes, they believe CEO’s are not worth the pay they receive; yet it is corporate America who is lobbying Congress to allow illegals a path to amnesty? If the left is so against Corporate America, why are they supporting corporate’s causes? Why are they supporting illegals over the American workers?

The truth is that the Democratic Party supports illegals because it is more potential voters. The left always needs a new flow of low information voters to compensate for the Democrats loss of voters due to knowledge. The problem with illegals is easy to fix; defend the southern border just as the northern border is defended, deny illegals the jobs they come here for by going after corporations and employers who hire them, enforce visas that have expired and deport, and cut Federal funding to cities who break Federal law. Basically, enforce existing laws.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:30 AM
Comment #397550

“defend the southern border just as the northern border is defended.”

There’s a great wall between Canada and the US?

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 8:26 AM
Comment #397551

I’m sorry that I have to post the comments and post several things at one time; but my lifestyle does not allow me to spend great amounts of time arguing politics. But I do have another comment regarding the Republican post:

Anyway, I will not vote for Trump, but I am not very worried that I will get the opportunity. Republicans will be too smart to nominate Trump. Democrats, in contrast, will be nominating Hillary. I can say with moral certainty that I will not vote for Trump or Hillary. If they ran against each other, I would stay home or maybe even vote for Bernie. He is wrong about most things, but at least he seems pleasant about it.

Posted by Christine & John at August 17, 2015 5:26 PM

Perhaps Trump will not get the nomination. If the Republican establishment has its way, he certainly won’t. Regarding “Republicans will be too smart to nominate Trump”; my question is why would you say this? Republicans nominated McCain, they nominated Romney. This is exactly what the Republican establishment wanted, and neither of these men had a snowballs chance in hell of winning. My question is; why are you writing in the Republican column? You state you would not vote for Hillary or Trump, and even if Trump was nominated, you would vote for an avowed socialist. You sound like a RINO who is writing in a conservative column. I disliked Romney and McCain; they do not represent my conservative ideals, but I voted for them because they were better than what we got. But you would vote for a socialist, who is extreme in Democratic standards for what reason??? There were Republicans who stayed home rather than vote for Romney…what was your feelings about that?

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 8:27 AM
Comment #397552

Rich, do you believe the northern border and the southern border are equally guarded? Before you answer, you might consider the northern and southern borders don’t face the same obstacles. I’ve been across both borders many times and I will say the northern borders, on both US and Canadian, are much more secure than the southern. The Canadian border security are professional and cannot be bought off; the Mexican are corrupt and are bought by the highest bidder. The US has help on the northern border; and none on the southern; the Mexican government is in bed with coyotes and drug dealers.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 8:37 AM
Comment #397553

Blaine

The only thing worse than Trump being nominated and losing the presidency would be him winning it. Most of the things he says are wrong in the details and his bold plans unworkable.

Take his deportation scheme. It cannot be done absent a coup that destroys our Constitution. Birth-right is guaranteed by the 14 Amendment. No President can just change that. Beyond that, do you really want a society where you need to prove your parentage back two or three generations?

I dislike Hillary Clinton with significant passion and I think her victory in 2016 would be very bad for our country. But I think that a Trump presidency would be worse. Hillary is unimaginative. We would get the slow roll mess up. Trump is revolutionary. It would end badly.

Posted by: C&J at August 19, 2015 8:48 AM
Comment #397554

Someone seems to be angry about my comment regarding anger. Go figure. I am not angry, I am looking forward to this upcoming primary process and will base my voting decisions on what I observe. That there is a distinct percentage (albeit somewhat insignificant)of angry people is not in dispute from my observations. That it is not grounded in anything but a hyperbolic need to vent is apparent to me. I look forward to the primary process to tamp down this “torches and pitchforks” mentality and lead to issue driven discussions by candidates that are vying for nomination by respective political parties. The fact that C&J has authored a posting that attempts to address his or her reservations regarding Trump and then is asked “why are you writing in the Republican column” is evidence of the anger. It is not my position to answer that but again from my observations C&J is posting because they can and they want to do that. I don’t believe there is a litmus purity test in effect here and hope there never is.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 19, 2015 9:39 AM
Comment #397555

C&J, short of what Obama has done through executive orders and violating the constitution; please tell me what Trump can do on his own? If any Republican, especially Trump, tried to run the country with executive orders as Obama has done, there would be an outcry from the left and the media like you never heard. So to equate deportation to trump is rediculous, but what Trump does have the power to do is enforce the laws already on the books. Please name a republican president or republican congressional leader who has tried to enforce existing immigration laws. Not one. Boehner and McConnel throw away any leverage they have with Obama before the debate begins. As I mentioned earlier. If Trump got the nomination, it would be because a majority of republicans wanted him. You, like the Washington insiders, have failed to understand the disgust that American voters have for the republican establishment. For many election cycles, voters have sent conservatives to congress, only to have them belittled by the likes of Boehner and McConnell. Each time the republicans fail to do what they run on, their next excuse is “if we only had the house, if we only had the senate, if we only had the presidency “. It has come to our conclusion, there is no difference. It’s all about power and the control of tax dollars.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 9:55 AM
Comment #397556

Speaks, what you are witnessing is a discussion of political beliefs on the right. Unlike the lockstep of the left. And, I have the right to question anyone who says they are conservative and then speak like a democratic. You are not telling the truth when you say your voting decisions will be based on the outcome of the primary; you will vote for Clinton, Biden, sanders, gore, or any other democrat or socialist who is nominated. The nature of the beast.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 10:05 AM
Comment #397557

But, let’s ask this question; how many conservatives in this column would be willing to say they would stay home or would vote for a socialist, rather than vote for Trump?

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 10:09 AM
Comment #397558

What I am witnessing is the anger driven comments by the predictable 20% of WB commenters. I am not surprised. I will vote as I choose, notwithstanding your professed reservations regarding my intentions. I am confident that the voting process is and will continue as a secret ballot. Pretty good idea.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 19, 2015 10:20 AM
Comment #397561

You have no data to back up your 20% anger comments; and you have no proof of anger. Simply your interpretation of peoples feelings. Regarding your voting; I personally don’t care who you vote for (vote for an old yellow dog if you want); but don’t act like you are some kind of intellect who is weighing the candidates positions. You and I both know it is a straight Democrat ticket for you. The more liberal/socialist, the better.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 1:21 PM
Comment #397562

“We need immigrants to counter the demographic trend. The country is ageing. More and more boomers are retiring, and there are not enough Millenials. Immigration is the perfect long-term solution.”

Fewer abortions is the perfect long-term solution.

Blain wrote; “Boehner and McConnel throw away any leverage they have with Obama before the debate begins.”

Agree. These two Republican leaders nauseate me. I told my wife that I want Boehner at my funeral as he is such a great crier.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 1:27 PM
Comment #397563

Since Margaret Sanger’s goal was to delete blacks, and since 75% of planned parenthood clinics are in black neighborhoods; I can understand the left’s desire for a new Hispanic voting block.

I wonder how any of these “not enough millennials” are still living with their parents and don’t have jobs? Oh, wait a minute, we do have stats on that:

(CNSNews.com) - 30.3 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds are living with a parent, according to data from the Census Bureau. The data comes from a Census release called “Young Adults: Then and Now,” which “illustrates characteristics of the young adult population (age 18-34) across the decades using data from the 1980, 1990 and 2000 Censuses and the 2009-2013 American Community Survey.”

In 1980, according to the Census, 22.9 percent of the total population ages 18 to 34 were living with a parent who was deemed the householder. In 1990, the percentage living with their parents increased to 24.2 percent. In 2000, the percentage dipped to 23.2 percent, and in 2009-2013 it reached the highest level recorded in the dataset to 30.3 percent.

According to http://www.barkleyus.com/millennials, there are 80 million millennials in America (25% of population). That means almost 30 million millenials live with their parents.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 1:57 PM
Comment #397564

Thomas Sowell

“The endlessly repeated argument that most Americans are the descendants of immigrants ignores the fact that most Americans are NOT the descendants of ILLEGAL immigrants. Millions of immigrants from Europe had to stop at Ellis Island, and had to meet medical and other criteria before being allowed to go any further.”

“Europe is belatedly discovering how unbelievably stupid it was to import millions of people from cultures that despise Western values and which often promote hatred toward the people who have let them in.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 2:11 PM
Comment #397566

Come to think of it, the ballot secrecy that we have here may be the next thing that Trump hits upon. We could all be issued cards after voting detailing who we voted for so that this could be verified if necessary. After all, I could envision that angry mob waving their torches and banging their pitchforks while shouting “We demand to know, are you with us or against us!!”. This may seem a bridge to far to most of us but I suspect that there are some among us on WB that would support this because, because, well they are angry and want everyone to know that, dammit.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 19, 2015 2:11 PM
Comment #397569

I’m glad to see speaks has proven conspiracy theories come from the left.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 2:36 PM
Comment #397574

Sarcasm.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 19, 2015 3:50 PM
Comment #397576

No. Say it isn’t so. Someone actually wrote this?

“Europe is belatedly discovering how unbelievably stupid it was to import millions of people from cultures that despise Western values and which often promote hatred toward the people who have let them in.”

Gee. Wonder how that happened. Don’t suppose it would have anything to do with colonialism, would it?

Some colonies were considered integral parts of their colonizing countries. Algeria was considered to be French. It was considered to be an integral part of France. That is why the Algerian Civil War was so brutal.

Cities like London are multiethnic and multiracial, and it is a good and awesome thing. It is arguably the most international city in the world. But of course, only 10% of Americans even have passports, so all kinds of ignorant tripe about other countries can be passed off without fear of contradiction.

Posted by: phx8 at August 19, 2015 3:52 PM
Comment #397581

Conspiracy Theory

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 5:50 PM
Comment #397584

”..ignores the fact that most Americans are NOT the descendants of ILLEGAL immigrants.”

That’s because during the great immigration waves from Europe, there wasn’t any legal barrier to immigrating to the US. We had a virtually open immigration system. The only reason that could be used to refuse entry was communicable disease.

Immigration waves have always resulted in political backlash (know Nothing Party). They have always strained public resources. But, in the long run, they have made America great. A constant infusion of disparate people willing to work hard for the opportunity of the American Dream. It has made us the envy of the world. The inscription of the Statute of Liberty is not for nothing.

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 6:10 PM
Comment #397586

“That’s because during the great immigration waves from Europe, there wasn’t any legal barrier to immigrating to the US. We had a virtually open immigration system.”

Bull Crap. A simple Google search will reveal this nonsense comment.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 6:40 PM
Comment #397594

Some of the best craftsmen in the world came from Europe. German, Poles, Czech machinist and metal workers. British shipbuilders. These were the immigrants of the industrial revolution. But let’s go back to the time of the founding fathers; ship builders, metal and wood workers, farmers… just what a fledgling country needed. Now let’s look at today; no education, criminals, rapists…but they can do jobs that no one else wants to do, like pick apples and mow lawns. So much for building a nation on that.

The skilled people we really need are held up in endless red tape and bureaucracy. But the left has an open door policy for anyone who would be willing to live off the taxpayer.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 7:20 PM
Comment #397596

OK, Royal, why don’t you do just that. Did you not notice that Sowell was careful to highlight medical criteria in his article as exclusionary criteria. That was because there were no quota restrictions on European immigration during the great waves of Irish, Italian, German, etc. immigration.

It wasn’t until after WWI that Congress began to impose restrictive quota criteria for immigration from European countries (Immigration Act of 1924). The great European immigration waves from which many claim descendance had already occurred.

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 7:36 PM
Comment #397598

I guess Rich wants to go back to Adam and Eve as our ancestors.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 19, 2015 7:47 PM
Comment #397599

Royal, since this post has reverted to leftist mythology, I might change the subject a little. Have you seen the latest report on Shawn King, the founder of black lives matter. He also writes for the Daily Kos as well as other places. He went to Morehouse College on an Oprah Winfrey scholarship for black men. He claims to be biracial (for libs that means black/white), and it turns out his whole life is a lie. He’s 100% white. He’s a wanna be black man. similar to the heal of the NAACP in Washington state, Rachel Dolezal. Perhaps his defense will be as Rachel’s…he identifies with blacks. It doesn’t matter that he is a white boy who actually cheated a black man out of a college education. Not to mention the fact that this is what the Daily Kos uses for writers.

Posted by: Blaine at August 19, 2015 8:00 PM
Comment #397601

No, Royal, I am going back to the period of immigration that most Americans reference, including Sowell, when saying that we are descendants of immigrants. After the Immigration Act of 1924, European immigration plummeted.

Posted by: Rich at August 19, 2015 8:05 PM
Comment #398342

“The fact is, Warren, is that Conservatives are closer to the Constitution than liberals are.”

Self proclamation doesn’t make it so. I am sick and tired of this conservative drivel. Conservatives are uniquely privy to the proper interpretation of the Constitution. Bullshit! The meaning and interpretation of the Constitution has been vigorously debated since the day of its adoption. Neither side can legitimately claim ownership.

Posted by: Rich at September 10, 2015 5:49 PM
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