War of Roses or the Bastille?

Mainstream House Republicans, who self-identify as the true conservatives now, are furious with Tea Party Republicans, who the pragmatic House GOP members say are troublemakers who continually scuttle the legislative process. Why? Because Tea Party House members, a core of about 30 according to the party itself, stand up for their principles but then walk away from any compromise legislation. On education, and now on funding the DHS, which passed this Tuesday with overwhelming Democratic support. And on past funding battles as well. The mainstream want the rebels to do business the Washington way and are fed up, so they say, with their shoot and retreat tactics. This self-righteous anger, however, didn’t stop a majority of Republican House members from voting against the clean funding bill, knowing that their Democrat House colleagues would ensure passage.


What we seem to have is a mainstream wing of the GOP that is desperate to win the 2016 elections, an understandable stance after 8 years of an administration that both mainstream and Tea Party members have little sympathy for, or empathy with. But what kind of party will the GOP be in the next 2 years is the question. And how faithful, as in getting out to vote, will the conservative base be when pragmatic solutions, that for example, give Obama everything he took by executive action and leave the GOP divided and angry on both sides, is the order of the day? The party donors are with Jeb Bush but willing to change if a candidate like Scott Walker proves to be more "presidential" which seems to mean giving the media nuanced and in-favor answers and promising to do things the way Washington - as in a complex of bureaucratic and legislative processes with favors, lobbies, and horse trading as well as media theatre - likes it. And one wonders where Scott Walker will be at year's end on the eve of the primaries? With his unexpected exposure and the press continually taking shots at him to see how agile his rhetoric is?

An optimistic article in the NJ Daily last November predicted a pragmatic and united GOP showing America they knew how to govern without internal party divisions. Unfortunately, the core of 30 or so Tea Party members are not willing to compromise, and the battle in the Republican party is in plain sight now. The unsettling question is: is it the War of the Roses as a house aide suggested, or is it the first rumblings of the Storming of the Bastille? The field of GOP presidential candidates will have to decide for themselves which one it is, and where the party they wish to lead is heading.

Posted by Keeley at March 4, 2015 7:48 PM
Comments
Comment #390371

This problem can be explained by the following statements:

There are elected Republicans that understand that there duty is to attempt to provide good governance.

There are elected Tea Party people that believe that there duty is to not govern but to obstruct governance.

The 2016 elections will define the differences, we can only hope for sanity to prevail. Either side of this argument I am certain can claim the sane position however the election will define it for both.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 5, 2015 10:13 AM
Comment #390373

I don’t have a horse in the presidential race yet, but I know which candidates I don’t care for much.

It seems Hillary is in some trouble over her email account. I am beginning to see the MSM begin to dump on her which may spell her doom as the anointed one for the dems.

More important to me is the fact that conservatives are taking control of ever more of our state governor and state legislature seats.

If and when a Constitutional Convention is convened to correct our failing national government the control of state government will be of paramount importance.

The so-called white race hatred card is being shot down as even our pathetic AG has to admit that black racism is alive and well in our country.

The “hands up, don’t shoot” slogan used by Democratic activists since August 2013 is a complete falsehood, outgoing Attorney General Eric Holder admitted Wednesday.

He acknowledge the faked story as he released the Justice Department’s investigation of the August 2014 shooting of Michael Brown, in Ferguson, Mo.

“I recognize that the findings in our report may leave some to wonder how the department’s findings can differ so sharply from some of the initial, widely reported accounts of what transpired,” Holder said at the press conference.

I recall the wild accusations made by some libs on WB regarding white racism and their total belief of the lies being told by some witnesses. I am pleased to see the egg on their faces.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 5, 2015 2:33 PM
Comment #390376

RF it might behoove you to read the report:

DOJ Ferguson Report

Excerpt from the report:

“Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices both reflect and exacerbate existing racial bias, including
racial stereotypes. Ferguson’s own data establish clear
racial disparities that adversely impact African Americans.
The evidence shows that discriminatory intent is part of the reason for these disparities. Over time, Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices have sown deep mistrust
between parts of the community and the police department, undermining law enforcement legitimacy among African Americans in particular.”

Of course I understand how you could have a different view given your vast experience as an African American dealing with racial inequality in our country. Oh that’s right you are a privileged white con, never mind. Hey when we convert you to a more liberal position can we call you an ex-con?

Now I know I don’t need to say this but I will. Eric Holder has been the finest example of an Attorney General in my lifetime. Hope the Republicans can get Loretta Lynch approved so they don’t have to deal with this Holder fellow any longer. They seem to be having a hard time doing that though. Thanks Obama!

Posted by: Speak4all at March 6, 2015 2:43 PM
Comment #390377

I’ve been “behooved” Speak and you remain a Twit who can’t read and understand.

“Hands Up, Don’t Shoot” was shot down by the AG himself. All those black witnesses claiming this BS were revealed as black racists.

All the marchers shouting this slogan were mere shills for an agenda of white cop hatred.

The egg on your face Speak is proof enough of your blind faith in the MSM crap.

obama is the best black president ever. True

Holder is the best black AG ever. True

Both are the worst ever to hold those offices.

The egregious actions by this administration along with the complicit congress and supreme court is serving to bring us ever closer to a Constitutional Convention as called for by Article V in the Constitution.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 6, 2015 3:21 PM
Comment #390378

RF
Did Speaks order bacon or sausage to go with that egg? lol

The opinions expressed by some do not agree with my opinions.

The continual scandals and unconstitutional behavior is sure blind behavior to the progressives, left, etc. and to some republicans also That kind of behavior would not have been tolerated 50 years ago. Now it is standard behavior. And oh the lies that permeate the political scene today and that is from nearly all the politicians. And they surely cannot be called statesmen, that would be an insult to the few statesmen still in existence today

Posted by: tom humes at March 6, 2015 6:35 PM
Comment #390379

Tom, I believe he is eating “crow” with those eggs.

I just can’t believe the political skulduggery going on in DC by many of the top leaders of this country in both parties. Nothing is sacred, nothing is off limits, nothing is beyond the pale of good and honest governance.

The prevailing mindset seems to be let’s help each other rob the people of their freedom, liberty and money. And, let’s do it quickly before enough America loving, hard-working taxpayers catch on and tar and feather all of us.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 6, 2015 6:44 PM
Comment #390380
I recall the wild accusations made by some libs on WB regarding white racism and their total belief of the lies being told by some witnesses. I am pleased to see the egg on their faces.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 5, 2015 2:33 PM

This is on the heels of claims of racism in the Zimmerman/Martin case. The left makes outrageous claims (lies) and then when it all falls apart, hey continue to make more claims on he first disproven lies.

The leftist on WB had Zimmerman and the cop in Fergusson tried and convicted.

Let’s look at reality; Fergusson is predominantly black…it’s local government is Democrat…it’s mayor and chief of police were put in office by predominantly black democrats. And now they are racists…only in the world of a liberal.

Posted by: Sam Jones at March 6, 2015 7:40 PM
Comment #390381

What impresses me is how little the current headlines matter. There is almost no real content to the news. Why is that? Because, all in all, things are going very well.

Think about it. The original article here is about a schism in the GOP that has manifested itself during the debt ceiling debacle, the fiscal cliff, the government shutdown, and now again with DHS funding. It is old news. The radicals and extremists want to burn the country down unless they have their way. The rest of the GOP and Democrats will not go along. This is not new.

Ferguson one year later? That’s news?
The 50th anniversary of the Selma march?
ISIS is horrifying, but far away. If Americans stay away from charity work in Syria everybody in the US will be fine.
Hillary Clinton’s used a private e-mail server? That’s news? You gotta be kidding. It was legal up until 2014, and many if not most politicians did it.

It’s winter and part of the country is having a lot of storms? Well, that might be news because it does have an impact, and maybe it is a sign of Climate Change/Global Warming. In the west we are crushing the records for warmth. Unfortunately, that may also include a drought.

All this leads to one conclusion. The media needs bad news in order to sell papers, increase ratings, and drive site traffic. But there really just isn’t much out there. All in all, things are going very well.

The latest unemployment report came in at 295,000 non-farm payroll. That is huge. U-3 dropped to 5.5%, and even U-6 dropped to 11%. It represented the 60th straight month of job growth, extending records for a successful recovery.

Obamacare has been an unqualified success. Obviously it did not cause job losses, not after 60 consecutive months of growth. There were no death panels, no death spiral, no collapse under its own weight, young people signed up, everyone paid for their enrollment, the number of uninsured have dropped dramatically, and the cost of healthcare has dropped from half of what it was during the Bush years, down to @ 3.9% after growing more than 7% a year, for years.

Game, set, match. This is what good governance looks like. Take a moment and thank a liberal Democrat.

You are welcome.

Posted by: phx8 at March 7, 2015 11:39 AM
Comment #390382

Good governance?

Federal spending is out-of-control and is projected to grow even faster in the future, burdening Americans and saddling future generations with a massive, unaffordable debt.

The process of immigration and naturalization has become bastardized.

Obamacare so far is mainly a simple expansion of Medicaid.

On July 12, the Obama administration issued a new policy asserting that it would issue waivers to exempt states from the work requirements established in the 1996 welfare-reform law.

Fifty-one years ago, President Lyndon B. Johnson launched the War on Poverty. Since then, taxpayers have spent more than $22 trillion fighting Johnson’s war, three times the cost of all military wars in U.S. history.

Last year, taxpayers spent more than $920 billion on 80 different anti-poverty programs.

Despite this spending, the percentage of Americans who are poor has barely budged since the late 1960s. As President Reagan put it: “We declared war on poverty, and poverty won.”

There is a growing mismatch between the rising threats this country faces and our armed forces’ diminishing capability to meet them.

All the above are bullet points from The Heritage Foundation.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 7, 2015 3:00 PM
Comment #390383

The Heritage Foundation is the modern equivalent of Communism. They claim to serve high ideals, just like the Communists, yet they seek to undermine the country at every turn in order to pursue the narrow interests of a small portion of society. They damage the United States of America and its ideals- in economic terms, MORE than the Communists ever managed- and they should be held accountable. They should be blamed for being so wrong, whether it is for promoting the invasion of Iraq in 2003, seeking to degrade the health care and the well being of the citizens of the United States, for the deregulation and privatization that crashed the economy in 2008 and offshored so many jobs in the years leading up to it, and for creating the debt and deficits in the first place with tax cuts. No Communist ever did as much damage this country as groups like the Heritage Foundation.

Is spending out of control? Not even close. The federal deficit has declined each year during the Obama administration, and is now only 1/3 of the size from when he started. At the current rate, the national debt will be eliminated by the end of Hillary’s second term.

We’ll do even better if we bring undocumented immigrants under our tent. Immigrants are our future. We need everyone who is willing to come to this country and take a chance on us.

“Obamacare so far is mainly a simple expansion of Medicaid.”

Dead wrong. Obamacare includes mandates for businesses and individuals, state insurance exchanges comprised of private health insurers, which promotes competition, subsidies for purchasing insurance, it forbids people with pre-existing conditions from being turned down, it allows kids to stay on their parents’ insurance until 26, and it prohibits lifetime caps. It also sets up minimum standards for private health insurance.

“There is a growing mismatch between the rising threats this country faces and our armed forces’ diminishing capability to meet them.”
Not exactly. If there is a mismatch, it is in the nature of combating fourth generation- that is, guerrilla- warfare by relying too extensively on expensive, conventional third generation warfare.

In conventional terms, we are generations- that is plural, with an ‘s’- generations ahead of the nearest competitor.

Posted by: phx8 at March 7, 2015 4:00 PM
Comment #390384

The greatest threat to the US are political leaders who ignore their very oaths to uphold the Constitution. We have an outlaw president and an embarrassing boot-licking congress. We have supreme court members who willingly violate the very constitution they are charged with protecting.

Liberal dreamers hallucinate of balanced budgets through taxation of the diminishing working class and those creating new jobs. Their wet dreams even extend to elimination of our national debt by more regulation, more servitude, and more reckless spending on those who choose to be non-productive citizens and by importing more non-productive aliens to suck on the national teat.

We are not a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of citizens. We demand that our laws be obeyed and not circumvented by the powerful in an effort to empower themselves even more.

We understand the goal of liberalism as practiced today. It is a goal of shared poverty, slavery and misery.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 7, 2015 5:06 PM
Comment #390385

Some libs are so blind with following obama to “change” the country they can’t admit the last two congressional elections were a huge repudiation of their politics.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 7, 2015 5:47 PM
Comment #390387

“… the last two congressional elections were a huge repudiation of their politics.”

Not quite. In the congressional elections of 2012, the Democrats were defending 21 Senate seats while the GOP was defending only 10, yet Democrats gained two seats- a remarkable performance, and a testament to the coattails of Obama. In the House, Democrats gained only 8 seats, even though they received 1.4 million more votes than Republicans, due to the nature of incumbency and gerrymandering.

In 2014, the sum of Democratic Senators received 20 million more votes than the GOP, yet the GOP has a narrow majority.

You can call the election results a lot of things, but “huge repudiation” is not one of them.

Posted by: phx8 at March 7, 2015 6:46 PM
Comment #390390

Hillary emailgate and Obama claims he just heard about it from the media news. Didn’t he or anyone in the W.H. get any E Mails from the state department and especially Hillary???? Didn’t he send any e mails to Hillary? Or is he that stupid not to notice emails being sent to a private account?????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 8, 2015 10:18 PM
Comment #390393

Well I see we have the three ghoulish stooges dancing on the grave of a deceased 18 year old man. You should be so proud of yourselves. Dance away, Royal, Sam and Tom.

Not sure what you are all talking about. I had always maintained that the death of Michael Brown was a tragedy for both the victim and the person who killed him. Nothing to celebrate at all.

I am pleased that Attorney General Holder’s office conducted a thorough review of the Ferguson problem and has given recommendations. There was already one person fired and two others have resigned. I expect that there will be much more to come in the way of changes for Ferguson. Let’s see what will transpire, this will take some time.

KAP, the one being stupid would be you since you are falling for this hook, line and sinkers and rushing to judgement. Again let’s see what happens. This will take some time also.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 9, 2015 10:06 AM
Comment #390397

speaks
kinda like behghazi and the time it has taken for officials to respond to Chairman Gowdy’s request for docs. Is that what you mean by “some time”? Like until a new admin comes to order?

You have taken out of context and added to context any comments on Ferguson. So they cannot be responded to.

Posted by: tom humes at March 9, 2015 12:06 PM
Comment #390398

Tom, sorry for your comprehension problems regarding my comments on Ferguson. I am still very pleased with AG Holder’s response to the problems there. I have never advocated for punishment unless there was wrong doing involved and it would appear from the DOJ report that there have been many. Time will tell.

Yes more time, however long it takes. As far as I have heard Chairman Gowdy knew about these emails quite some time ago. People are now asking why didn’t he breach this subject before now? Why did it take the New York Times to bring it to the forefront? There are many questions and we can all wait for the facts to come out. Unless we want to rush to judgement.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 9, 2015 12:22 PM
Comment #390399

Wrong speaks it’s you who is stupid enough to overlook Hillary’s EMAILGATE, and Obama saying he just found out about it through the media goes to show me he is no kind of leader when he don’t even know what is going on in his administration. Then you speaks and others defend that kind of piss poor performance. Goes to show that the Democrats aint no better then the Republicans. Time to vote out all the bumbs.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 9, 2015 3:15 PM
Comment #390400

Tom, believe what you will. I know that you are beyond reasoning with on this. I will just take a wait and see attitude on the Clinton email story. I might suggest that you do the same but I know you smell blood in the water.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 9, 2015 4:00 PM
Comment #390401

speaks
You have now said my comprehension level does not match yours, thank God for that. You have castigated me and my abilities in how to deal with people. I thought this type of communication was handled over and over again. I was wrong about that. I am on another side of the fence on many issues no matter what the subject is. I am pleased with my way of thinking on any given subject. So for you to say I have a problem is out of line. I’m not sorry to burst your bubble.

Posted by: tom humes at March 9, 2015 4:52 PM
Comment #390402

No bubbles bursting here. Your comments serve as your castigation. Suit yourself. I merely stated that I am willing to wait for all of the facts and details regarding Hillary Clinton’s emails to come out. If you choose to think differently, that is up to you.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 9, 2015 5:01 PM
Comment #390403

I’ll wait too Speaks while Hillary prepares her parsing to explain her actions. However, she must not delay as every day she does makes her actions more suspicious.

Under certain circumstances she could even face criminal charges.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 9, 2015 5:59 PM
Comment #390404

Sorry, but the Hillary e-mail issue is about as much of a non-story as we are likely to see. It was legal to use private e-mails and servers up until 2014. Hillary voluntarily made these available. End of story. If someone finds something criminal, by all means, go for it.

But just to point out the obvious, if there was anything criminal, Hillary would have done the same as Bush and destroyed the server. Bush allowed 30 (?) servers to be destroyed that contained info on administration deliberations about re Iraq. At least 5 million, and as many as 22 million e-mails were lost, and these surrounded one of the most controversial issues in modern times.

If anyone wants to revisit the nightmare of the conservative Bush administration, here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Posted by: phx8 at March 9, 2015 6:34 PM
Comment #390405

phx8
you are in error on the time and emails. First nobody could have a personal server and use it for government use. It has to have the ability to archive the email. In hilary’s case that did not fit. Your no story or end of story does not comport.

Posted by: tom humes at March 9, 2015 8:45 PM
Comment #390406
It was legal to use private e-mails and servers up until 2014

Legal is not the same as ethical. Thus far, there has been no legitimate explanation given for her decision to eschew using an email within the state.gov domain. We deserve better from our public officials.

Posted by: Warren Porter at March 9, 2015 9:30 PM
Comment #390407

WP,
It was obviously legal, and I see nothing unethical about it. It’s a server. There’s nothing magical or sinister about a server. E-mails have senders AND recipients. They can be archived, forwarded, or printed. We are a decade or two past the point where this might have even been questionable. As long as security was in force- and it seems to have been ok- there really are no issues as to whether e-mails ends in .gov or .com Sheesh! The e-mails are being made available to the public as much as possible. There are no accusations of wrongdoing or criminal conduct. Like I said, this is about as much of a non-story as we are likely to see.

Posted by: phx8 at March 9, 2015 10:36 PM
Comment #390408

The simple use of a private server doesn’t appear to have been illegal. Administrative regulations developed pursuant to the Federal Records Act in 2009 required only that the emails be preserved. The regs didn’t require the use of government servers. The Act itself was eventually amended by Congress in 2014, after Clinton’s term, to require use of government servers. The legal issue is then whether all the emails were preserved.

So why the big hullabaloo? It is not the first time that a Secretary of State of State has used a private server. For example, Collin Powell, during his tenure in the Bush administration, used a private account. Powell never even kept a record of them and can’t produce them.

Posted by: Rich at March 9, 2015 11:14 PM
Comment #390409

You folks have it mixed up. It is how the server is used and under what conditions. A personal server like most of us use is not unethical or illegal. It is the server used under government control and location that is in question. The rules and laws of operation are very explicit. BTW Collin Powell also had a gov. server in addition to his personal server.

Posted by: tom humes at March 10, 2015 3:03 AM
Comment #390410

Here we go again, the repubs have the smoking gun on Hillary, it is emails, Ha. Considering this thread is about the inability of repubs to govern effectively due to the far right extremist in Congress I would think pointing the finger at Hillary is just a smoke screen for those on the right unwilling to face reality.

I would also suggest that more to the point of the thread we have 47 repub traitors in Congress that should be prosecuted under the Logan Act. Yet not one of our friends on the right even mention this perversity opting instead to once again try Hillary in the court of public opinion, or in this case the court of Faux news opinion.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 10, 2015 9:01 AM
Comment #390411

What Republicans have are so-called mainstream leftist Republicans who are willing to go along to get along for their own political futures, and 30 some moderates who are willing to stand for Republican principles.

It is no accident that those who respect and who dare quote the Constitution are now labeled extremists and radicals.

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 9:40 AM
Comment #390413

kctim,
The extremist and radicals in the House stand for shutting down the government of “We the People.” They stand for crashing the economy over the debt ceiling and defunding DHS.

As for the 47 Senators that presented that open letter to the Iranians, there is a trending hashtag: #47traitors
The GOP Senators are going too far. It is not a good thing to undermine the office of the president, especially when that office is in negotiations with our allies and the Iranians over their nuclear program. It is not a good thing when people start throwing around terms like “traitors” and “sedition.”

It was wrong for the House to invite Netanyahu to speak on the floor of our legislature. There is nothing wrong with a foreign leader or Congressman criticizing the president. There is a great deal wrong with inviting a foreign leader onto the floor of the House to attack and undermine the president during sensitive negotiations.

We’ll get over it, of course. The Republic will survive. But the increasing extremism and radicalization of conservatism is a real cause for concern. They are setting new precedents. New lows. What these people are doing is not good for the country in either the short term or the long term.

Posted by: phx8 at March 10, 2015 11:07 AM
Comment #390414

Ah, nothing like some nice fearful propaganda, Phx8.

Rather than silly partisan rhetoric about “shutting down the government” and “crashing the economy,” people should be seeking honest answers and asking WHY are they willing to “shut down” non-essential government business?

Spare us the blather about traitors. You guys are more worried about how Obama looks, than you are about good treaties and nuclear weapons.
Hell, if the 8 years under Bush taught us anything, it’s that if Obama were a Republican, you guys would be harping on his inability to lead by working with Congress and calling HIM a traitor.

Israel is one of our closest allies, to treat Netanyahu on a lower level than Iranian thugs is embarrassing.

The left has truly jumped the shark with its Obama idolatry.

“the increasing extremism and radicalization of conservatism is a real cause for concern”

Exactly what unconstitutional “extreme” and “radical” ideas do they support?

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 11:30 AM
Comment #390418

kctim, you seem to be unaware that 47 Senators sent a letter directly to the leader of a foreign country threatening the country. It is not the job of the Senate to conduct foreign affairs while the administration is in negotiations with the same government. To twist this into “You guys are more worried about how Obama looks, than you are about good treaties and nuclear weapons.” is as ignorant a comment I have ever heard someone here on WB make.

The fact is this grandstanding by these Senators, has nothing to do with the usual conservative cover up, yes the constitution, they have exceeded their bounds by stooping to send this letter. Just as they screwed up by allowing Netanyahu to give a campaign speech to Congress. To hide behind “to treat Netanyahu on a lower level than Iranian thugs is embarrassing.” is cowardly kctim, Netanyahu screwed up not this administration, he side stepped the president not the other way around. He is the thug, the bully threatening his way into this country on the backs of our extremist in Congress.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 10, 2015 2:00 PM
Comment #390422

Exactly what unconstitutional “extreme” and “radical” ideas do they (conservatives) support?
Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 11:30 AM

Don’t hold your breath for an answer that isn’t parsed to death tim. I have asked the same question repeatedly with no coherent response…ever.

I just finished listening to Hillary answer reporter questions after her UN speech. She claims that every email she sent to a colleague or other federal government employee would have been saved by State because the recipient was, unlike her, using a .gov address.

Well, what if the recipient too was only using a personal web address? Not seen by State and not saved by State.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 3:40 PM
Comment #390423

J2, I am well aware of the letter and what it said. Laws were not broken, nobody is a traitor. Do I wish both sides would work together? Sure. But the fact is that failed leadership prevents that from happening.

“Ignorant comment” or not, it is the truth. You guys have been twisting yourselves into freaking pretzels to defend Obama for the past 7 years. Making excuses for his lies, justifying changing laws and why he has to work around Congress, instead of with them.
You guys are so intent on Obama being seen as the greatest President ever, that you can’t see your own BS any more.
Face it man, this is ALL about Obama, not some treaty.

I’m not hiding behind anything with Netanyahu. He represents one of our most closest and trusted allies and for Obama to piss on him while embracing Iran is embarrassing. You can let your politics and conspiracy theories affect that, but I will not.

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 3:46 PM
Comment #390424

“You guys are more worried about how Obama looks, than you are about good treaties and nuclear weapons.”

Really? Because as of right now, there is no treaty. It is in the process of being negotiated by the Obama administration, along with the UK, France, Germany, China, and Russia. The countries involved might reach an accord. They might not.

Read the letter by Vice-President Biden. Here is a snippet:

“In thirty-six years in the United States Senate, I cannot recall another instance in which Senators wrote directly to advise another country  —  much less a longtime foreign adversary  —  that the President does not have the constitutional authority to reach a meaningful understanding with them. This letter sends a highly misleading signal to friend and foe alike that that our Commander-in-Chief cannot deliver on America’s commitments  —  a message that is as false as it is dangerous.”

What we are seeing is an opposition party- namely, Republican Senators- go to a foreign government- Iran- in order to undermine the president. That is as wrong as wrong can be. It actually violates a law, the Logan
Act, which has been on the books since 1790. No one expects it to be enforced because we need to have free speech. But this is a bad situation. These Senators, particularly Cotton from AK, are being called traitors.

By a LOT of people.

Posted by: phx8p at March 10, 2015 3:47 PM
Comment #390425

j2 writes; “I would also suggest that more to the point of the thread we have 47 repub traitors in Congress that should be prosecuted under the Logan Act.”

Why is it that the left disparages words written by our founders as old fashioned and hopelessly out of date and then use an Act from 1799 to suggest some senators are traitors?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 3:48 PM
Comment #390426

“These Senators, particularly Cotton from AK, are being called traitors.”

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

“When President Reagan chose to confront the Soviet Union, calling it the evil empire that it was, Sen. Edward Kennedy chose to offer aid and comfort to General Secretary Andropov.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 4:03 PM
Comment #390427

It would seem we could say the following about our conservative commenters:

You guys are so intent on Obama being seen as the worst President ever, that you can’t see your own BS any more.

Just changed one word from kct’s comment about why there is support for our sitting President and it really makes it clear as to what they are really all about. Making President Obama the worst. He is our President, like it or not, and the Senate is trying to diminish him. They are succeeding in diminishing their own stature instead.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 10, 2015 4:05 PM
Comment #390430

Phx8, yes really.
The fact that you are screaming ‘traitors’ instead of asking WHY they felt this was the only way to get their point across, signifies that this all about Obama to you guys.

Misleading signals? From the party who called our President a lying murdering fascist, and our troops cold-blooded murderers?
Yeah, forgive me for not thinking this is the end of everything.

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 4:47 PM
Comment #390431

Speaks, the difference is that I can back up what I say.
You? Not so much.

Posted by: kctim at March 10, 2015 4:48 PM
Comment #390432

The question of this post can still be answered similar to my first comment. If you were to ask every congressman and senator “Do you want to govern?”

Many would answer with a simple “yes”.

Some would answer with a “well maybe, if I get everything my way and I don’t have to compromise”

The former would be politicians we can respect and trust to govern.

The latter need to be voted out of office, the sooner the better.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 10, 2015 4:49 PM
Comment #390434

I don’t think you can back up what you say and what is it about what I say that can’t be backed up? That our President is doing what he was elected to do by the people that elected him is all I have tried to maintain. As I said in the other thread, we get it that you don’t like President Obama. Try to get some intelligent comments on this blog without constantly either referring to our adoration of President Obama or your complete and utter disapproval of him. It gets old and you don’t make any points other than the childish way you like to display your feelings and emotions about us and him.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 10, 2015 4:54 PM
Comment #390436

Speak, I have no problem with the president attempting to fulfill his campaign promises. I object to his doing it with multiple lies, misstatements, obfuscation, and violating his constitutional oath.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 5:01 PM
Comment #390440

Please cite some instances and not that Fox news, daily caller, red state nonsense but real court decisions that show us how he violated his constitutional oath.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 10, 2015 5:10 PM
Comment #390443

I objected to obama’s “multiple lies, misstatements, obfuscation, and violating his constitutional oath.”

Speak only addresses the last one and we can assume he agrees with the first three.

Regarding his violation of his oath, it is at this time my opinion and that of many constitutional scholars, quite a few in congress and millions of Americans. So far, no challenge has been adjudicated in court on his violation of oath of office. However, that does not preclude me from having an opinion.

The president is on record saying first that he didn’t have the constitutional authority to do a certain act and then later having done that very act.

Which president obama was acting within the constitution speak?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 5:41 PM
Comment #390444

The one I elected.

Oh so I see. There are not court decisions that support your hyperbole.

You see I could say “Royal Flush talks out of his ass because I can smell crap on his breath”

Now while I might be able to say you talk out of your ass we all know that I am unable to determine the smell of your breath. And that would be hyperbole.

You use hyperbole and expect me to take it as fact, I won’t.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 10, 2015 5:51 PM
Comment #390447

Royal Flush: “The president is on record saying first that he didn’t have the constitutional authority to do a certain act and then later having done that very act.

Which president obama was acting within the constitution speak?”

Speak: “The one I elected.”

Very weak and meaningless.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 6:10 PM
Comment #390448
J2, I am well aware of the letter and what it said. Laws were not broken, nobody is a traitor.

Time will tell kctim, hopefully the AG will charge these 47 Senators with a violation of the Logan Act. They certainly deserve it.

Cotton and 46 other extremist far right Senators write a letter to Iran concerning the ongoing negotiations with Iran interfering with the job of the administration and other countries involved with the negotiations and you offer this tripe kctim. What next from these extremist burning down the reichstag, er um the Senate and then blaming Obama for it?

Do I wish both sides would work together? Sure. But the fact is that failed leadership prevents that from happening.

Hiding behind the old failed leadership meme kctim. The fact is these Senators are the problem not the Congressional leadership or the administration.

“Ignorant comment” or not, it is the truth.
Well it was an ignorant comment but it just wasn’t the truth kctim. Because you may believe your statement doesn’t make it the truth. This administration has had so few scandals, just how many are in jail? What we have had to defend is the myths, misinformation, half truths and outright lies from the conservatives, such as this one ” You guys have been twisting yourselves into freaking pretzels to defend Obama for the past 7 years.”


Making excuses for his lies, justifying changing laws and why he has to work around Congress, instead of with them.

If you remember correctly he tried way to long to work with Congress, to no avail. Remember it was Congressional leadership who stated their goal was to make Obama a 1 term president from day one. Their was no “working with”, yet he succeeded in many things.

You guys are so intent on Obama being seen as the greatest President ever, that you can’t see your own BS any more.

Not me kctim, now if he had stormed Congress grabbed McConnell by the shirt collar and told him ….well you get the idea , then maybe greatest. But we have FDR amongst modern presidents that wins that award hands down. We have Lincoln and Washington that earn that award for their era’s as well.

Face it man, this is ALL about Obama, not some treaty.

I agree, the black guy is negotiating, along with others, with IRAN! Conservatives are besides themselves, they cannot stand it. They will risk anything to stop Obama even sending letters to Iran.

I’m not hiding behind anything with Netanyahu. He represents one of our most closest and trusted allies

Sure they are as long as we give them money and go to war for them.

and for Obama to piss on him while embracing Iran is embarrassing.

So getting himself an invite by Congress during his campaign season, bypassing the state department and the Obama administration is your idea of Obama pissing on him! (It sure is about Obama isn’t it, kctim, your hatred of him perhaps). Since when, kctim, since when is negotiations with another country, another country that has had sanctions on them, considered embracing? Have conservatives no sense of decency, one lie after another and you try to tell me it is my BS. HA.

You can let your politics and conspiracy theories affect that, but I will not.

Conspiracy, That’s a good one kctim, it wasn’t me bringing up Hilary’s emails, or bengahzi, or FEMA camps or.. well the list goes on and on and on with nothing to show over the past 7 years my friend. It was conservative extremist in Congress conspiring to interfere the work of the administration.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 10, 2015 6:19 PM
Comment #390450

Just as President Obama repeatedly has defied congressional authority on immigration and other domestic matters, now 47 members of Congress are defying the president as he tries to negotiate a deal with Iran to curtail its nuclear program.

And the obama administration is outraged. LOL

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 6:39 PM
Comment #390451

Why Fox News Is Winning

Fascinating. It’s no wonder my leftie friends hate Fox News.

“When voters were asked “Whose news coverage do you trust the most?” Fox News beat out all other television news organizations – on network and cable.

Fox is seen as “most trusted” by a sizeable majority of Republicans – and by almost no Democrats. But Fox is also viewed as “most trusted” by one-in-four Independents – the highest among any network.”

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/03/10/why_fox_news_is_winning_125886.html

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 10, 2015 6:51 PM
Comment #390453

Sure explains a lot doesn’t Royal. So many Americans trusting the least reliable news source, well except for Rush of course. The news source that is false 61% of the time has simple minded conservatives fooled. Laugh if you will but in fact it is a serious problem the way those on the right are so easily duped by misleading news and opinion shows. It doesn’t help the country but then it helps your ego so what else matters right.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2014/oct/21/pew-study-finds-rush-limbaugh-least-trustworthy-ne/

Posted by: j2t2 at March 10, 2015 8:38 PM
Comment #390454

Royal,

Ronald Reagan and G.H. Bush took similar executive action on immigration. http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/219463-when-reagan-and-ghw-bush-took-bold-executive-action-on

Posted by: Rich at March 10, 2015 8:55 PM
Comment #390455

Here is what I mean, kctim, it isn’t just Royal, although he is repeating this lie- “Just as President Obama repeatedly has defied congressional authority on immigration and other domestic matters,” that is what many of us have been defending Obama against. Lets face it had Obama really defied congressional authority wouldn’t he have been held accountable by leaders in Congress and the SCOTUS?

Yet nothing for 7 years but still this type of tripe comes from conservatives. Had he exceeded his authority surely those tea baggers in Congress would have had the wherewithal to bring charges against him. They have been salivating just thinking they could find something on him or his administration yet nothing but many millions of dollars and hours of wasted time by those who make these false claims.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 10, 2015 9:18 PM
Comment #390456

Anyone notice how some conservatives are so anxious to apply the law when it comes to undocumented aliens, but when it comes to a violation of the Logan Act (updated @ 20 years ago) by a seditious Tea Party Senator, suddenly everything turns mushy? The usual response is to point the finger elsewhere, rather than respond. ‘Hey! Look over there! Ted Kennedy isn’t dead after all! And he did the same thing 40 years ago!’

Uh huh.

That’s how traitors become traitors. They are just SO in love with their country and Constitution, no one else is up to their imaginary standards. States Rights, y’all! The president is a foreigner!

Next thing you know, it’s secession, or ‘Remember remember/ The Fourth of November’.

Posted by: phx8 at March 10, 2015 10:22 PM
Comment #390458

Turns out the traitor Senator Cotton took $960,000 from the “Emergency Committee for Israel.” Today he is meeting in private with defense contractors. There are already 136,000 signatures on just one petition to prosecute this guy for sedition, and another six petitions out there too. This guy needs to be pursued. Same with the rest of the #47 traitors. There is a solid case.

Two Senate aides are claiming it was all a joke. Nice try.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2015 9:33 AM
Comment #390461
Turns out the traitor Senator Cotton took $960,000 from the “Emergency Committee for Israel.” Today he is meeting in private with defense contractors.

Lets do a test people, raise your hand if you are surprised at Cottons desperate act made at the demand of his rich benefactors.

Because to me this does show callus regard for the Americans he represents in the Senate. I don’t blame him for the pay off as it is required these days for someone to campaign for the office, However the system has been damaged by amongst other things the recent SCOTUS decisions by the “strict constitutionalists” and this is an excellent example of the great lengths our unelected government is willing to stoop to.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 11, 2015 10:35 AM
Comment #390464

J2

Yes, time will tell and IF there are grounds to charge members of the opposite party, you can guarantee this administration will do it.

I still have not heard an explanation of what makes these people far right extremists.

“What next from these extremist burning down the reichstag, er um the Senate and then blaming Obama for it?”

And it’s me posting tripe? LOL

“Hiding behind the old failed leadership meme kctim.”

Nope, just stating fact. Successful leaders learn to work with others, not how to avoid them.

“This administration has had so few scandals…”

There have been plenty of scandals so far, you guys just don’t care. You know, if you guys put half as much scrutiny on Obama as you did Bush, maybe things wouldn’t be bad today.
You guys harp on about some evil right wing 1% cabal secretly running the world, but you claim Obama wanting to infringe upon the 2nd Amendment as nothing but a myth spread about by extremists.
You claim Bush lied us into war, but discount ALL Obama lies as some extremist misinformation campaign.
You whine about half-truths only because it’s not the half you want known.
FFS, you guys parrot every thing you are told without question.

“If you remember correctly he tried way to long to work with Congress, to no avail.”

And if you remember correctly, he is the one who started it all by discounting Republicans and declaring that government involvement will be central to all health care reform “negotiations.”

“Remember it was Congressional leadership who stated their goal was to make Obama a 1 term president from day one.”

This is a perfect example of how petty you guys have been.
For Pete’s sake, what member of any opposition would want the other side in charge for an unlimited time?

“Not me kctim…”

That’s good to hear, J2.
But from day 1, this dismiss, ignore, excuse and defend at all costs attitude has had the smell of the left shaping his legacy, rather than letting it form on its own.

“I agree, the black guy is negotiating, along with others, with IRAN!”

BS.
The President is negotiating alone, with our enemy, without any regard for our Congress and one of our closest allies. He is ignoring Congressional support and going it alone in order to get what he wants.
So of course Conservatives are besides themselves.

“Sure they are as long as we give them money and go to war for them.”

Yeah, I’m sure the millions with dual citizenship and the fact that they don’t consider us their enemy, blow us up and behead us, doesn’t mean anything.

“is your idea of Obama pissing on him!”

No, President Obama dismissing him is what I consider that.

“since when is negotiations with another country, another country that has had sanctions on them, considered embracing?”

It’s not. Negotiations that give nuclear technology to a self declared enemy, without any regard for the wishes and safety of us and our allies, is what I would call embracing the enemy.

“it wasn’t me bringing up Hilary’s emails, or bengahzi, or FEMA camps or..”

Of course it wasn’t you bringing those things up, they didn’t happen to Republicans or under a Republican administration, so you discount them.
No, you bring up things like Bushs emails, Bush lying about what happened in Niger, Christians turning the country in a theocracy, and some 1% controlling the world.

Posted by: kctim at March 11, 2015 10:52 AM
Comment #390465

The left has sure got its panties in a twist. Traitor and on what charges using the proper legal deffination of traitor. You lefties can make up some of the most cockamamie stories and then try to make facts out of sheer nonsense. Your source is of course just as much a farce. Sen Cotton is either crying for the nation or laughing at the fools who have come up with this pap.

When the present admin is so set on getting an agreement to allow Iran to get the nukes it wants, who is the traitor?

Posted by: tom humes at March 11, 2015 11:22 AM
Comment #390466
I still have not heard an explanation of what makes these people far right extremists.

Their political ideologies. Their refusal, as elected officials of we the people, to work with other members of their own party as well as other political parties to reach a compromise on matters before the Congress.

Nope, just stating fact. Successful leaders learn to work with others, not how to avoid them.

Well kctim, sometimes “others” just won’t be worked with. In Congress the past few sessions the extremist have proven they cannot work with people inside their own party, their own leadership cannot work with them and they have a bigger hammer than the administration to help them. When you add the self righteous attitude of these extremist, they are blind followers to a extreme cause after all, the willingness to use myths misinformation half truths and outright lies to further the cause of their unelected handlers it makes it tough to blame the leadership. Especially when the agenda of the extremist is to stop the leadership from doing anything and these extremist are willing to do so at any cost to the country.

So to blame the people of this countries chosen leader is misleading IMHO. Lets put the blame where it belongs on the extremist right wingers in Congress and their unelected benefactors.


There have been plenty of scandals so far, you guys just don’t care.

It’s not that we don’t care kctim, it is the “scandals” Issa and the rest of your team has created just don’t amount to much. Their molehills despite you telling us they are mountains.


You know, if you guys put half as much scrutiny on Obama as you did Bush, maybe things wouldn’t be bad today.

But we have you guys to do just that, and Issa and now whats his name are doing just that. The problem here is the repubs want to use their power for political gain an the administration is just to clean for them to have any s**t stick to the wall.

The President is negotiating alone,

Even if it were true it is his job to do the negotiating kctim. But this administration is part of a team of several countries that are involved with this issue.

with our enemy, without any regard for our Congress and one of our closest allies.

Yes now our enemy but back in the day… but the treaty process isn’t 1. get congress and by congress we mean those certain elected official getting paid by “our friend” and the defense contractors” to undermine the process at their whim. 2. do what these unelected money men say cause they want you to. The process is 1.negotiate the treaty 2.take to Congress for advice and consent.

As far as our “closest allies” that may be so but that gives them no right to interfere with our government as they have done through their campaign appearance at our Congress and by bribing our elected officials to interfere with the negotiations.

It’s not. Negotiations that give nuclear technology to a self declared enemy, without any regard for the wishes and safety of us and our allies, is what I would call embracing the enemy.

They have nuclear technology we aren’t giving it to them kctim. I am amazed that you suggest we haven’t considered the safety and of us and our allies as if our only ally is Israel. Should all our decisions be based upon what is best for Israel? Trying to reach a peaceful agreement with Iran doesn’t mean anyone is “embracing” Iran it means we are trying to reach a peaceful decision with them. To think that gearing up the war machine to defend Israel is a viable option is a nonsensical solution to the problem, unless you are a defense contractor reaping the profits.


No, President Obama dismissing him is what I consider that.

So “Net” gets to covertly set up a campaign speech at our Congress behind the administrations back but it is Obama dismissing him. Were I president “Net” would have been pissed upon whilst giving his speech because I would have been their and did it myself. Obama treated him much better than he deserved.

Such foolishness kctim, supporting “Net” and his grandstanding over our country. You guys tried that force thing with Iraq and now look at the results of the mess the Texan gunslinger created with his destruction of Saddam Hussein.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 11, 2015 12:15 PM
Comment #390467

The 47 traitors letter strikes at the heart of the United States government by undermining its ability to conduct foreign policy. The Executive Branch speaks for us in foreign affairs because it is so important for us to speak with one voice. The 47 traitors letter tells other countries the any agreements reached with us will be overturned, that we do not speak with one voice when reaching agreements, and so we should not be trusted for any agreement reached with Iran.

This not only seditiously undermines the president’s ability to conduct foreign policy for both this and future presidents- it also undermines our relationships with our allies. The UK, France, Germany, China, and Russia are all negotiating with us, and the whole point of the negotiations is to PREVENT Iran from building a nuclear weapon.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2015 2:22 PM
Comment #390470

Fox News: The network had the top five programs in cable news in both total viewers and adults 25-54. In total viewers, “O’Reilly Factor” (2.667 million) was followed by “The Kelly File” (2.204 million), “The Five” (2.057 million), “Special Report with Bret Baier” (1.985 million) and “On the Record with Greta Van Susteren” (1.749 million). And in the demo, “O’Reilly” (426,000) was followed by “Kelly File” (374,000), “The Five” (324,000), “Hannity” (311,000) and “Special Report” (303,000).

In primetime for the year, Fox News ranked second in total viewers (behind only ESPN) among all ad-supported basic cable networks.

“O’Reilly Factor” marked its 15th consecutive year as the No. 1 cable news program in its timeslot in both adults 25-54 and total viewers, and it’s the No. 1 show in cable news for a 14th straight year in the demo and 13th straight in total viewers.

http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/fox-news-dominates-cable-news-ratings-in-2014-msnbc-tumbles-1201386523/

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 11, 2015 3:06 PM
Comment #390474

phx8
Have you read the letter sent by the 47 senators?
Didn’t think so. Just talking points from your favorite leftist outlet.

Posted by: tom humes at March 11, 2015 4:09 PM
Comment #390476

For anyone who has not already read the text:

http://go.bloomberg.com/assets/content/uploads/sites/2/150309-Cotton-Open-Letter-to-Iranian-Leaders.pdf

The letter pretends to lecture the Iranians about how a treaty works, but Cotton actually gets it wrong. The Senate provides advice and consent. The President then ratifies it. This article goes into more depth about an executive agreement v treaty, the actual role the Senate can play, and the fact that international agreement with multiple signatories, once enacted, prevents Congress or an executive from unilaterally changing the terms without the other signatories consent.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/mar/11/tom-cotton/letter-iran-47-republican-senators-correct-about-c/

The 47 traitors letter is simply a bad faith effort to undermine the president on foreign policy. It is harmful to the nation and deserving of all the condemnation it is receiving- condemnation from both conservatives and liberals alike. These Republican Senators- especially Cotton- went WAY over the line.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2015 5:13 PM
Comment #390478

The link above to politifact includes:

“We found broad agreement among experts that a future president or a future Congress could indeed undo or modify the kind of agreement that’s currently being negotiated with Iran, but the senators’ letter makes the process sound more clear cut and easier than it actually is.

The statement is accurate but needs additional information, so we rate it Mostly True.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 11, 2015 5:36 PM
Comment #390480

Some of the Republican bashers here seem to forget the times Democrats did the same thing those 47 Senators did. We have in 1983 Sen. J. Tunney meeting with KGB for Sern. T. Kennedy for a visit to plan an attack on Pres. Reagn’s policies. 1984, 10 Democrat lawmakers sent a letter to then COMMUNIST Nicaraguan leader Daniel Ortega. 2007 Nancy Pelosi visits Assad without W.H. or State Dept approval. 2002 David Bonior then the second ranking Houise Democrat flew to Baghdad to undermine Bush 2’s case for war. Nov 1990 Jimmy Carter tries to sabotage G. H. W. Bush at the U.N. Liberal/progressives here seem to forget that their people have undermined Presidents in the past. Now that the shoe is on the other foot cries of traitor and other such things come up. I suggest people like phx8 and j2t2 look in the mirror before they call someone a TRAITOR.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 11, 2015 5:55 PM
Comment #390481

You are correct KAP.

The left salutes obama’s frequent bypass of congress on issues of great importance which should have their input and consent. When congress uses obama’s play-book the left howls. So funny!

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 11, 2015 6:02 PM
Comment #390483

Not the same thing, KAP. Not even close.

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the president. There is nothing wrong with inviting foreign leaders coming here and criticize us (although preferably NOT in our Legislature- that is inappropriate), and there is nothing wrong our politicians going abroad.

The 47 traitors letter seeks to undermine a fundamental power of the presidency, as determined by the SCOTUS:

“… The President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of the nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude; and Congress itself is powerless to invade it. As Marshall said in his great argument of March 7, 1800, in the House of Representatives, ‘The President is the sole organ of the nation in its external relations, and its sole representative with foreign nations.’

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=299&invol=304

Congress consists of 535 individuals. It is virtually impossible for a group that large, or even a group of 47, to be capable of speaking with one voice in foreign affairs.
The 47 traitors letter, addressed to the leaders of a foreign country, asserts powers that do not belong to the Senate, and it specifically undermines the powers assigned to the Executive Branch.

This letter is not just bad for the short term. It is not just bad for Obama. It is terrible in the long term, for whoever the future president may be, when it comes to conducting foreign policy.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2015 6:09 PM
Comment #390484

Yea I know phx8 they were DEMOCRATS they are above the law. Lets quit with the BS phx8 it is the same Democrats have done the same and will continue just like Republicans will. TRAITORS I doubt it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 11, 2015 6:20 PM
Comment #390486

I would say those 47 senators did was in poor judgment and dumb but NOT TRATOROUS.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 11, 2015 6:33 PM
Comment #390487

A traitor is one who commits treason.

8 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Did these senators give “aid and comfort” to Iran? Will we find that an executive agreement with Iran will give them “aid and comfort”?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 11, 2015 6:41 PM
Comment #390490

RF,
In colloquial terms, what the Senators committed was treason. Technically, in legal terms, what they committed was “sedition.” They sought to undermine negotiations by suggesting Congress must ratify the agreement, which is wrong. Congress never ratifies agreements. Ever. And they suggested Congress or a future president could do away with a “mere” executive agreement with a “stroke of the pen,” which is also wrong.

Posted by: phx8 at March 11, 2015 8:12 PM
Comment #390491

What the 47 Senators did was Dumb even they admitted to that. The Democrats I mentioned earlier by your standards phx8 committed treason, but you didn’t think so. IMO you have a double standard what some do is fine by you, but what others do is Treason? Double standard all the way phx8!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 11, 2015 9:59 PM
Comment #390493

KAP, we all know that you are an angry old man. It is not necessary for you to use multiple !’s to signify that but if it makes you feel better, have at it.

Yes we know the Democrats did it so you can to. And they did worse things too, so you can take it even further than they did. You know for an old man that seems like a childish way to think, but if it makes you feel better….

What is it with that number 47. Hmmm, I seem to recall a recent presidential candidate that referred to 47% in a derogatory manner and that reference may have cost him his electability, it’s not proven but it may have. This re-occurrence of the number 47 may be just be a random coincidence but I fear that it bodes as well this time for the failures it will produce as it did during the 2012 campaign for Mitt Romney. These senators may end up experiencing the same regrets that Mr. Romney may have felt in regards to his “47%” statement. I find it more than coincidental that the number 47 is again a stumbling block for Republicans but I am not sure why.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 10:01 AM
Comment #390497

Speaks, I never mentioned or wrote anything that said it’s ok because the other side did it. Royal is right your comprehension of what is written is non existent. I use multiple “!” because people like you do not comprehend so maybe by using multiple “!” you will comprehend or at least get your attention.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 10:34 AM
Comment #390498

KAP, OK if it makes you feel better….

Do you think that there may exist a day in the not to distant future when we could have a discussion that might end with “you know you could be right”? It just seems that any of the discussions are always centered on I am right and you are wrong or what you think is bad and what I think is good or what I am saying is the truth and you are using a falsehood. These arguments while producing a lively dialog never seem to get past the original argument of each claiming to be better than the other.

I believe you when you say what the 47 senators did was dumb but you say it as if they should be exonerated because Democrats do dumb things too. That is a bad excuse for a very dumb idea.

Hey what do you think about that number 47 and the problems the Republicans seem to have with it?

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 10:51 AM
Comment #390499

Speaks, I just pointed out to phx8 that there was and is wrong doing on both sides and that his cry baby tactics are getting him nowhere. As far as the 47 to me means nothing but 47 senators doing something dumb. You may think of it as a coincidence, I don’t. I do not think those senators be exonerated, but I do think what is good for the Goose is good for the Gander.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 11:35 AM
Comment #390501

KAP, to refer to phx8’s comments as “cry baby tactics” is silly. I would like to think that a man of your age and abilities would not need to use those words to describe what someone is trying to say. You could easily refer to his misguided and uninformed comments instead. When you use “cry baby tactics” I kind of start disregarding your comment right from the start. I don’t believe phx8 is waiting for your assessment of his comments to see if he is going nowhere but I’ll leave that for him to address. From my experience of reading his comments I expect he will ignore the slight and continue to try to make his points through his comments. Which in this case I agree with.

You said, “I do not think those senators (should) be exonerated”. You know you could be right.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 11:46 AM
Comment #390502

Speaks, If you have read phx8’s comment after I pointed out to him that there were a number of Democrats that have done like things that the 47 have done. His comment “NOT THE SAME THING” there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the President. The problem I see is the MY SIDE GOOD YOUR SIDE BAD BULLS**T. That goes for both sides. Both side do the BOO HOO tactics, now that Obama doesn’t have the majorities he did have the BOO HOOING goes more for the left leaning folk.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 12:04 PM
Comment #390503

KAP, well it’s because it is not the same thing, at all. Look I’m not going to get into some shouting match with you, you using all caps and lots of ! and sublime cursing and silly childish references but I will say that your disagreement with others here should not preclude the message that you are saying, “It was a dumb idea”. And that is what is happening. You say it was a dumb idea but somehow that is lost in the refutation of what others think. I can understand that and do not deny you your ability to do so but your message is lost in translation because of your vehemence to oppose. I think President Obama is getting much more accomplished since the majorities of the HOR and Senate were lost because he is unencumbered by trying to keep his political affiliates appeased, they were the ones that abandoned him during the 2014 elections. But you could be right about it being a dumb idea for those 47 senators.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 12:20 PM
Comment #390504

One question Speaks, was it dumb for those Democrats to do what they did? A simple Yes or No.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 12:25 PM
Comment #390505

Yes, sure it was, most politicians and people I know do dumb things. But it isn’t the same as what these 47 senators did, was it? A simple yes or no.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 12:28 PM
Comment #390506

Yes speaks, it was the same. Undermining a President no matter what party is wrong. Lets just quit with the “My side good, Yours bad” garbage.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 12:37 PM
Comment #390507

KAP, OK but no nothing in life is the same. As a man of some years you should be able to understand that but hey I do believe that you let your opposition to an unnecessary point be a detriment to your more important point. No it wasn’t the same and you know that, you are just being obstinate and I’ll leave it at that. But you could be right. Can you say the same to me? If you can’t then I think we know where we are in this discussion.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 12:50 PM
Comment #390508

Well speaks we can agree to disagree. Yes you can be right.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 12, 2015 2:18 PM
Comment #390509

Thanks KAP. Agree to disagree sounds good to me.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 12, 2015 2:45 PM
Comment #390535

KAP and Royal to much Limbaugh not enough truth.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/13/rush-limbaugh/limbaugh-ted-kennedy-undercut-reagan-back-door-lin/

Posted by: j2t2 at March 13, 2015 7:50 PM
Comment #390537

j2, Don’t listen to and never did listen to Rush.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 13, 2015 11:45 PM
Comment #390539

Of course you don’t and didn’t KAP but the fact remains, despite who you heard it from, that using Kennedy as an example of one dem doing the same as 47 repubs doesn’t hold water.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 14, 2015 1:12 PM
Comment #390540

The fact is J2 that what you and others portray Democrats as being lilly white and pure is PURE BULLS**T. Democrats are just as dirty as the other side and when you can admit that both side play dirty then and only then will I take your comments as credible. Until then I take them as biased media BS.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at March 14, 2015 1:21 PM
Comment #390582
The fact is J2 that what you and others portray Democrats as being lilly white and pure is PURE BULLS**T.

First of all KAP you are putting words into my mouth. I didn’t say anyone was lily white. But ask yourself this “how many dems signed the letter that is the subject at hand.” or “what is the relevancy of what we heard Kennedy or Pelosi or Kerry did to this this letter”.

Democrats are just as dirty as the other side and when you can admit that both side play dirty then and only then will I take your comments as credible.

Once again KAP this ruse you have set up is simply an emotional need on your part to make what these 47 Senators did seem justifiable. IT is illogical to bring the dems into this argument as not one signed this letter. It is foolish to tell me I must “admit” something as the criteria for you accepting my comments as credible, it is once again an emotional need on your part. It is illogical to believe you when you tell me I will become credible simply by admitting the dems have done what ever because it has no place in the discussion surrounding this letter.

Until then I take them as biased media BS.

Sure you do KAP because you can’t face the reality of the situation. Setting up this standard and them using “biased media BS” as reasoning when the media has told the story not signed the letter. Blaming the media, blaming Obama, blaming me for not admitting useless information, likening these guys to Churchill, What next “God made them do it, it isn’t their fault”.

You just aren’t capable of sorting the issue out without protecting the guilty by blaming those that had no part in the signing of this letter by 47 repub Senators. This inability to hold your own team accountable for its evil ways is typical of many conservatives as we can see from the total BS excuses you guys have managed to come up with to support the unsupportable actions of these Senators.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 16, 2015 11:34 AM
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