The Question Giuliani Asked

The media, mostly on the left side of the spectrum - fuss over Giuliani’s comments about Obama’s alleged lack of love for America overlook, or sidestep a basic fact. As in the Bill Ayer’s controversy over Obama’s relationship on several boards in Chicago during the 90’s and up until 2002 with the former terrorist, the issue is not whether Obama exchanged secret handshakes with Bill Ayers, or had the PLO flag up on his dormitory wall back when. The issue is the basic philosophical outlook that a Bill Ayers has and it’s relationship to his radical and violent past; an outlook shared by a significant part of the academic, intellectual and media worlds. And those who agree with them. The Vietnam War was bad, a bloody mistake rather than a costly war that helped contain communism in ways far beyond the geographic boundaries of Southeast Asia. Reagan was a war monger rather than the president who brought peace to the world through American strength. The politics of identity are what matter rather than what one does and achieves, because this racist capitalist planet has to be changed from the ground up, all the while being careful as they are not to link the word “revolution” with the possibility of violence. But justifying violence around the world all at the same time. As these former and not-so-former radicals joined the system they had violently opposed, they still have similar goals which they now go about achieving through the education system, through the political system, and through the media.


Ayers is an uncomfortable reminder for many who share most of his social justice goals because of his past, but not because of his goals. And that group clearly includes President Obama. So when Giuliani lets his more combative side loose, although what he actually said was so politely phrased it seemed almost timid in its form if not in its implications, he is merely stating the obvious: Obama believes that through process, and diversity, and consultation you can fix most things in this world, including the scourge of terrorism. And that process, diversity, and consultation is heavily laced with hard line criticisms of America. From within from people like Bill Ayers, and from without from everyone from European conditional allies to dangerous radical groups. That's why Obama wants to "move on" from a focus on terrorism and its consequent moral imperatives that demand a clear position in response to terrorism's atrocities. Perhaps Obama's affable and enormous "I" includes seeing himself as a bridge between East and West. Between Islam, especially Sunnism, and Christianity. As a righteous prophet who reminds Christians of their past sins as a people, as he did at a recent prayer breakfast. Patriotism, on the other hand, is particular and partisan by nature, because it means love of one's own country. A love that is not conditioned by the perspectives of those of dislike or even hate the country. How a president balances his or her patriotism with their job as leader of the free world is not an easy issue to judge. But it is not nit-picking or insane to ask how patriotic the man in the Oval Office is, or isn't. And to wonder what he really believes about Islam and it's various extremisms.

Posted by Keeley at February 23, 2015 7:19 PM
Comments
Comment #389904

Oh dear.

Posted by: phx8 at February 24, 2015 5:16 PM
Comment #389908

Six deferment Rudy as he was better know during Vietnam war

What a clown!

I served, Rudy didn’t.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 24, 2015 5:25 PM
Comment #389909

Is it love that adds many trillions of debt to the shoulders of our young men and women?

Is it love that welcomes illegals into our country rewarding them with government benefits not available to our own citizens?

Is is love that causes a president to violate his oath and violate our Constitution for enrichment of his own power?

Is it love that creates a health care system that rewards the unproductive and punishes the productive?

Is it love that desires to take from wealth producers and give it to non-producers?

Is it love that urges a president to publicly declare the United States responsible for many of the world’s ills?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 24, 2015 5:31 PM
Comment #389910

Is it love that causes someone to hold a sitting President in such disregard. You and your ilk haven’t shown us anything that can be determined to be anything close to “love”. The only “love” I have witnessed on this very blog when a conservative discusses our President is a very strange self-love combined with an inordinate loathing of someone else.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 24, 2015 5:40 PM
Comment #389914

November 5, 1994 — from Reagan’s letter to the American people revealing his Alzheimer’s diagnosis

“In closing, let me thank you, the American people, for giving me the great honor of allowing me to serve as your president. When the Lord calls me home, whenever that day may be, I will leave with the greatest love for this country of ours and eternal optimism for its future. I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life. I know that for America there will always be a bright dawn ahead.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 24, 2015 6:00 PM
Comment #389915

Speak, why change the topic? Can’t you address obama’s “love” of country?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 24, 2015 6:02 PM
Comment #389933

Royal,

Are you talking about Reagan? The President who presided over the tripling of the national debt? The President who ran record deficits throughout his two terms? The President who granted amnesty to millions of illegal aliens? The President who paid ransom to Hezbollah? The President whose administration violated national security law by trading arms with the Iranians for cash to support the Contras in Nicaragua and as ransom?

Posted by: Rich at February 24, 2015 9:58 PM
Comment #389948

That’s pretty funny, Rich. I saw that list by RF and the first thing I thought of was Reagan. We are in a particularly ugly season of Obama hatred, with weird and unseemly efforts to define him as un-American. To this day, about 1/3 of all conservative Republicans believe Obama is Muslim. The belief is especially prevalent in the former slave states of the Confederacy. The weird part is that the people who attempt to define Obama as un-American, such as Giuliani, are themselves examples of what we do not want our country to be. But let’s not forget, Giuliani was speaking to an audience, and to their immense discredit, that audience thought it was just fine.

Well, they are entitled to their opinion, no matter how odious and disrespectful. Fortunately, more than 50% of Americans voted FOR Obama in 2008 and 2012, so there is hope for us yet.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 12:54 AM
Comment #389996

We should be mindful that our conservative commenters are really in a pickle and not try to kick them while they are down. After all GWB turned out to not really be their hero, then they doubled down on Mcain/Palin and lost terribly, then they turned to the tea party crazies and reaped the animosity that hateful rhetoric brings, then they thought Romney would win in a landslide (we all know how that ended) and now their hero is (gulp) Rudy Guiliani??? It doesn’t get much worse for them except in 2016. They just can’t seem to understand that most Americans thrive on the belief that this country and the majority of it’s citizens want good governance not no governance. They want a functioning government that deals with problems and brings solutions. Maybe some day they will regain their sanity but it doesn’t seem apparent today. Oh well get the boots out.

Can’t wait to see President Obama’s Town Hall meeting on MSNBC tonight. I expect we will see a very thorough explanation of the legality of his actions and an adamant stand on the power of his veto pen. Let’s watch the outrage develop on the right as we all know is so predictable that it is reaching comical levels of entertainment. Oh yes, and “thanks Obama” keep up the good work.

Reagan??? Really??? Please join us in the 21st century soon, we want your input but leave your stupidity out of it.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 9:34 AM
Comment #389997

Comparing Obama to Reagan, Kennedy and Clinton whilst leaving out the Bushes, not bad, especially when the guy doing the comparison idolizes Reagan, looking at his presidency through rose colored glasses.

Guliani as is the case with most conservatives confuses love of country with nationalism and then makes the case that Obama unlike Reagan isn’t a nationalist but a patriot. To think that we have a political movement with a zero tolerance on constructive criticism when it comes to our history is scary. Especially when this mindset comes from the same type of people that continually revise history to sugarcoat their political ideologies.

If only Walker had something to run on besides attacking his opponents perhaps Guliani wouldn’t need to embarrass himself with such foolish remarks. If only Walker had something to run on besides attacking his opponents Keeley wouldn’t need to gutter feed on the Ayers non issue. If only conservatives had something to run on they wouldn’t feel the need to continue on with the nonsensical “Obama isn’t an American like the rest of us” meme.

Conservatives hold your leaders finger to the fire, make them address real issues with solutions not rhetoric. Don’t let them get away with this nonsense to secure your votes. Don’t fall for the crap, stand up for yourselves and insist upon real issues not Gulianish misdirection.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2015 9:39 AM
Comment #390014
The belief is especially prevalent in the former slave states of the Confederacy. The weird part is that the people who attempt to define Obama as un-American, such as Giuliani, are themselves examples of what we do not want our country to be.

Wow phx8, and I thought Giuliani was a bluecoat?

Posted by: George in SC at February 25, 2015 12:24 PM
Comment #390026

Interesting comments by the lefties. Not a single liberal gave any example of obama’s love of “country”. OH, well, we understand your dilemma.

It is also interesting to read the praise heaped upon a president who defies our Constitution.

Perhaps self-love is how the left portrays love of country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 1:56 PM
Comment #390027

RF that is because we won’t submit to childish and immature nonsense about a man that was elected and re-elected to the highest office in this country. What about your hero, Rudy Guiliani. What a despicable, insufferable moron. Suggesting that our President doesn’t love the country that elected and re-elected him to President.

Speaking of dilemmas what do you think of Mitch breaking off the DHS bill and leaving out the nonsense about President Obama’s executive actions to be deliberated separately. And now Boehner is having a hard time trying to explain why to his members. Dilemma indeed!

You know I remember you crowing a lot back in November. How about a little beverage with that crow now, looks like it’s getting hard to swallow.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 2:09 PM
Comment #390029

Once again a leftie has to change the subject for lack of an answer. We understand your dilemma.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 2:27 PM
Comment #390032

I wonder if any liberal can even describe correctly what “love of country” even means?

Do we radically attempt to change that which we love?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 2:39 PM
Comment #390033

Look we know you guys are hurting but you brought this on yourself. You should now be able to accept the blame for your predicament. And what are you? A rightie? Please do not start the spin nonsense again. That is old.

What is a dedicated fox news viewer like yourself to do? Bill’O the clown is looking more clownish every day, your big time majority in both houses can’t seem to grab their collective asses with both hands and now your boy Scott Walker looks like a dunce giving the typical non-answer answer to a very simple question. Oh by the way I do believe that our President has a love of his country that certainly outweighs the conservative self-love of their ideology by far.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 2:43 PM
Comment #390034

Sorry Speak. That’s a non-answer. Try again with some thought.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 2:44 PM
Comment #390035

My wife and I of 30+ years changed each other and believe me when I tell you it was for the better (she might be listening). You have nothing, you stand for nothing and you seem to want to support nothing for you and your posterity’s future. Sad that you think so little of yourself but why do it to your country?

Tune in to the Town Hall tonight and you will see evidence of our President’s love of country. I know it will be difficult for you since you hold so much hatred for him but think of it as medicine for your poor tortured soul.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 2:50 PM
Comment #390039

Did Speaks change his wedding vows to grow his marital love as obama has done with the Constitution?

Just another self-loving liberal who can’t describe love of country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 3:48 PM
Comment #390041

Is there some way we can deport the American monsters that want to expel the Dreamers, and keep the good people that really want to be Americans, and are not so merely through an accident of birth? Just because these monsters are second or third or even fourth generation Americans doesn’t mean we are better off for having these terrible, horrible people as citizens. Ah, well.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 3:56 PM
Comment #390045

RF no but we changed each other which is much more important to us and our posterity. You should try it. Whoops I forgot you want nothing for your country or posterity. Too bad.

phx8 I wish it were that simple, but wait maybe it could be. From what I find, the monsters you describe are the same fox viewers that have an average age of 72. Some simple math tells me that this could bring diminishing returns on the bigotry and xenophobia that the fox news whores regularly lie about. We can only hope, and continue to work for a brighter future for us and those we love.

And RF remember to watch the Town Hall tonight so President Obama can blow holes in your “he’s lawless, he’s changed the constitution, he’s not American enough, nonsense. Pay attention.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 4:11 PM
Comment #390046

Speak still doesn’t understand that actions trump words and lies.

Would be tyrants seem to appeal to some on the left. A leader who ignores his oath is dangerous and certainly does not love his country.

We know what obama aims to accomplish. He believes his vision of freedom and liberty is better than our founders. And so do his followers.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 4:30 PM
Comment #390051

Well considering the “founders” you speak of existed many, many years ago, yes we believe that our vision of the way things are today need to better address the problems of today and not 200+ years ago. I know you disagree with that but you need to get in your wayback machine and go there if that is what you want. President Obama has not ignored his oath of office and it will be easily discernible to anyone watching and listening without predetermined notions of his actions during tonight’s Town Hall meeting.

Look I tire of this nonsense you use to try to discuss something. All you keep saying is you’re wrong I am right. I am willing to listen to your opinions but I will not stand by and let you denigrate our twice elected President with your unsubstantiated observations.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 4:55 PM
Comment #390052

President Obama is serving his country in the highest office in our land, and at great risk. He has received more death threats than any other president in the modern era, which not only puts his own life at risk, but threatens the well being of his family. Nevertheless, he serves at a level higher than most of us can ever dream of, and yet, there are those who denigrate him. He has repeatedly stated his heartfelt love of country, and he has run one of the most law abiding administrations in our history, as measured by indictments and convictions for corruption. (I’m not so down with the whole NSA thing, but for now, it is recognized as legal). To suggest he is a tyrant or a dictator or somehow ‘other’ and not legitimate disrespects the Office and the will of the majority of American voters.

On a more fundamental basis, even Governor Perry called those who want to deport the Dreamers and break up their families people with no heart.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 5:03 PM
Comment #390053

Here is a poll of where Republicans stand today. Scroll down see how they stand on evolution, Global Warming, and establishing Christianity as the state religion:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_22415.pdf

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 5:12 PM
Comment #390055

Speaks often writes, “twice elected President”. Is that a record?

My “nonsense” question is still being ignored. Wonder why?

I can not respect any elected official who violates his oath of office. Such respect is called “boot-licking” to get what “I” want.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 5:18 PM
Comment #390058

RF we don’t care what your question is because it comes in the form of hatred that you hold for a respected President of our country. We will not be willing participants in the character assassination that you seek to involve us in. I write twice elected a lot because you seem to think he was not popular enough to be elected once let alone twice and I need to remind you that he was twice elected. Speaking of “boot-licking” is that what you call your adoration of former President Reagan also?

Posted by: Speak4all at February 25, 2015 5:50 PM
Comment #390061

Speak describes my question, “What has obama done to show love for our country” as hatred”. I now understand his mindset better. To disagree is to hate. Simple thoughts for simple people.

Walter E. Williams writes;

“Liberalism is a moral manipulation that exaggerates inequity and unfairness in American life in order to justify overreaching public policies and programs. Liberalism undermines the spirit of self-help and individual responsibility. For liberals in academia, the fact that black college students earn lower grades and have a higher dropout rate than any group besides reservation Indians means that blacks remain stymied and victimized by white racism. Thus, their push for affirmative action and other race-based programs is to assuage their guilt and shame for America’s past by having people around with black skin color. The heck with the human being inside that skin.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 6:02 PM
Comment #390066

It is difficult to understand the mindset of my liberal friends on WB. Are they truly unable to project where their spending, immigration, reduced military, and social policies are leading the country?

I guess when everything revolves around winning elections and keeping power is paramount, declining liberty and freedom are chess pieces worth losing.

Fifty million Americans classified as poor bothers then not. Over 90 million Americans unemployed is just fine. A mountain of federal debt that is growing is hardly worth mentioning. A porous border brings prosperity, not threats to security.

But then, these non-thinkers care little about what happens when they are dead. Love of self is paramount.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 6:23 PM
Comment #390070

“What if a typical family spent money like the federal government?”

The median family income is $52,000: If they spent money like the federal government, they’d spend $60,400 a year, which would mean they’d put $8,400 on the credit card each year, despite already being $308,800 in debt.

And yet, my liberals friends view this as totally acceptable and bemoan the fact that even more is not being spent on their favorite social programs.

This typical family is effectively bankrupt, just like the political policies of the left.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 7:04 PM
Comment #390072

Here’s a novel thought for my liberal big-government-spending friends.

There’s no such thing as something for nothing. All money, goods and services — every last dollar of it — must be created through someone’s hard work.

Remember, government has no money on its own. It produces nothing, so it earns nothing. Government has only the money it takes from taxpayers or borrows against the payments of future taxpayers.

Everything government “gives” to one person or organization must be taken from another person or organization. Every dollar that government redistributes to someone, it must first take from someone else, and then deduct carrying costs before passing it on.”

Excerpt from Heritage.org

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 7:21 PM
Comment #390075
Interesting comments by the lefties. Not a single liberal gave any example of obama’s love of “country”. OH, well, we understand your dilemma.

No you don’t Royal, you are clueless if you think we have a dilemma. The problem here is the straw man fallacy you have created to justify the foolish Giuliani comment. To allow the straw man to be dignified with an answer only gives legitimacy to the illegitimate.


Would be tyrants seem to appeal to some on the left. A leader who ignores his oath is dangerous and certainly does not love his country.

Once again Royal has to inject fallacy into the comments to justify his hatred of Obama. Obama has ignored no oath, this is a conservative myth Royal that has led you down the same path the foolish Giuliani has taken. Conservatives in general like to use “love of country” as some kind of weapon to bully people into goose stepping with them. It is the kind of blind allegiance that hurts not helps our country. It pits Americans against Americans, rich against poor, race against race.

“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived, and dishonest—but the myth—persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic-” John F Kennedy

Royal, let me leave you with a warning

From It Can’t Happen Here (1935): “But he saw too that in America the struggle was befogged by the fact that the worst Fascists were they who disowned the word ‘Fascism’ and preached enslavement to Capitalism under the style of Constitutional and Traditional Native American Liberty.”

Sinclair Lewis


Posted by: j2t2 at February 25, 2015 7:42 PM
Comment #390076

RF,
Both fiscal and monetary stimulus programs work. That is reality. That is how it works. Quantitative Easing works. Tax cuts work. Spending increases work even better. Tax dollars put back into the economy create additional economic activity. The most effective forms are food stamps, followed by unemployment benefits. Every tax dollar for food stamps creates $1.74 in economic activity, and $1.61 for unemployment.

There are two drawbacks. One is the argument based on whether it is morally acceptable to help the unemployed, and at what point it becomes a crutch rather than a short-term benefit. The same goes for feeding the poor. The other argument against it is that debt must be paid, because it costs interest.

The answer is to spend and cut taxes in hard times to increase economic activity, and cut spending and raise taxes when times are good. That is exactly what the Democrats and the Obama administration have done, with spectacularly good results. We did not have to live through another Great Depression, even though by many measures the economic crash in 2008 was worse than the Depression. The growing economy has reduced the deficit from when Obama took office by 2/3, and it will be nearly eliminated at the end of his second term. The debt has stabilized, and while the national debt represented @ 9% of GDP when he took office, it is now down to 3%, a very manageable number and actually low by historical standards.

The liberals are working on bringing us back to full employment. We are not there yet, but getting closer by any measurement- U3 or U6. The national debt is stabilizing, and will be nearly eliminated by the end of Hillary’s second term.

The US faced a somewhat similar situation to Japan in the 90’s and 00’s with the economic crash and credit crunch. To see what an economy looks like when bad decisions are made, take a look at the Japanese GDP v debt, and thank your lucky stars the Democrats and the Obama administration saved this country.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 7:49 PM
Comment #390077

Nice try but no ribbon j2.

I ask a simple question and not a single liberal can even google a favorable obama quote on love of country. Hilarious.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 25, 2015 7:50 PM
Comment #390086

Royal Flush,
“Watch Barack Obama Talk About How America Is the Greatest Country on Earth in 13 Different Speeches”

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/02/20/barack_obama_loves_america_and_thinks_it_s_great_video_evidence_contradicts.html

“But as someone who regularly watches Barack Obama speeches as part of my job, what I think is most astounding about Giuliani’s take—and his followup claim that he’d like to see the president “give a speech where he talks about what’s good about America and doesn’t include all the criticism”—is how literally factually wrong it is. Obama talks constantly about America’s greatness and how his upbringing cultivated his love for the country; in fact, perhaps because he knew his liberalism, African father, and “funny name” (his words!) would provoke insinuations about his lack of patriotism, Obama’s pride in the United States—and the way his family origins figure into that pride—has been perhaps the most common theme of his most important speeches since he came to national prominence.”

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 9:02 PM
Comment #390088

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/02/22/president-obama-has-in-fact-expressed-love-for-his-country/?_r=0

So, Royal Flush, make sure you watch all 13 speeches and read the entire NYT article. You asked for it and it has been provided.

Posted by: phx8 at February 25, 2015 9:10 PM
Comment #390146

Royal, sadly it is time to accept the changes that liberalism has reaped upon the country and move on my friend.
Love of country and patriotism is no longer defined by a pride and gratitude of simply being an American, it is now defined by a false sense of entitlement.

Believing in the principles of our nations founding, is no longer seen as love of country. Love of country is now seen as support for infringing on those principles in the name of “progress.”
Patriotism is no longer seen as being willing to die for our founding principles, it is now being willing to admit that our country is not exceptional, and is no different, and most often times even worse, than other countries.

I do not question President Obama’s love of country. But anybody with any integrity at all can see that his love for what he thinks the country should be, is much greater than his love for how it was, is and meant to be.

Posted by: kctim at February 26, 2015 9:40 AM
Comment #390148

I served this country with military service. Some of that service required me to be put in harm’s way. Although I was compensated by extra $ with hazardous duty pay that didn’t allay my fears. This was my duty to my country. For you to now suggest that a person like me isn’t willing to die for our “founding principles” ridicules my service and sacrifice. But not only mine, as mine was not the ultimate price, you ridicule those that paid the ultimate price by using your litmus test of patriotism as to whether they would support our duly elected Commander in Chief. You have no integrity at all by taking this tack and I am ashamed to call you and RF fellow citizens but I still support your ability to puke out the trash that you do because that is what my military service was for. So that you and RF and the rest of you can denigrate our Commander in Chief. As disgusting as that seems it is the truth. We served for all Americans.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 10:07 AM
Comment #390150

Speaks, you really need to learn how to better comprehend what you read. I didn’t question anyone’s patriotism or even get close to trying to “denigrate our Commander in Chief.”

What I very clearly stated was that how people define patriotism and love and country, has changed. People are now called unpatriotic for not wanting to be taxed in support of wealth redistribution. People are now said to be nationalistic extremists one step away from nazism, for believing in American exceptionalism.
Those are simple facts that cannot be ignored by going off the rails as you have done.

What I also very clearly stated was that I don’t question President Obama’s love of country, but it cannot be argued that he loves his view of what it could be, more. Heck, most leftists that I know don’t see anything wrong with that kind of so-called “forward thinking.”

You’re not alone in your military service, being put in harm’s way or hazardous duty pay. Besides, as the left loves to remind us all of the time, it doesn’t make you a better citizen.

I could care less about what you might feel ashamed about. Especially when it is based on what you falsely think was said, instead of what is actually being said.

Posted by: kctim at February 26, 2015 11:01 AM
Comment #390156

What you spew I do not care to learn about. You have a warped understanding of service to your country but I expect you have never had to do that so I understand your confusion but don’t respect how you display that. President Obama is in service to his country right now yet you and others want to complain that his is not the true patriotism and love of country that you, RF and Keeley want. I say again you do not understand being in service to your country. I know you do not care that I am ashamed of you, RF and Keeley because that is what the callousness of your convictions teaches you. What you clearly say time and time again here on this blog is that you think you are unfairly taken advantage of by progressive liberal policies, we know. You, RF and Keeley are the people who keep bringing up a new definition of patriotism or love of country. Those that disagree with you don’t do that, you do. You really need to learn how to better comprehend what you are typing in your comments, most of it is seditious nonsense.

I expect I will not be able to communicate much more on this posting as we have seemed to devolved into more of the you are wrong and I am right path of discussion.

When I enlisted with two other friends we had two mutual friends who were drafted, they never returned but we did thankfully. We also had a mutual friend who was adamant about not enlisting and moved to Canada. I hold more respect for the fellow who moved to Canada than I do for Guiliani. You see the guy who moved to Canada lived by the courage of his convictions and gave up his citizenship because of it. Rudy, well he just kept getting deferments to not have to serve but still sucked off the tit of freedom and liberty all the while expecting others to serve. And now he has the stones to say our current Commander in Chief doesn’t love his country? We called guys like that a chickenshit coward when I served.

I am not certain what to call you, RF and Keeley and will just leave it as my previous statement defined, I am ashamed to call you fellow citizens.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 11:50 AM
Comment #390160

FFS Speaks.

It has “devolved into more of the you are wrong and I am right path of discussion,” because once again, you are arguing with yourself instead of what is actually being said. I don’t know if you do this to avoid facts, or if you just talk yourself in circles and confuse yourself. Do you even realize that you condemned one guy for the “courage of his convictions,” AND praised another guy for the “courage of his convictions,” IN THE SAME POST?

The topic of the OP is patriotism and love of country, so definitions of those two things should not come as unexpected or be so confusing. If you disagree, then explain why. Don’t go off on some tangent simply because you can’t refute things.

Look, I don’t care about Rudy or what he says. THAT is why I addressed the cultural shift in thought that, IMO, causes people to say the things they do.

Posted by: kctim at February 26, 2015 12:46 PM
Comment #390162

Great story from the Town Hall meeting last night. A young Hispanic man explained how he joined the Army when he was seventeen. He was so young his mother had to sign papers to allow the Army to accept him (I had to have the same done for the Navy). He served in Iraq and was medically discharged under honorable conditions. Now he is fighting to have his mother not deported and it is not going well. Imagine that, his mother raises a son and then signs him over to the Army to go and defend the country and now that same country is trying to deport her. President Obama thanked him for his service and then explained that he can only do so much within the bounds of his authority to remedy situations just like the young man was going through. He apologized for his inability to help the young man and ended his conversation by just stating that Congress needs to pass the law to give him the legal standing to help people like him. I know people will say “what don’t you understand about the word illegal” and I say in return what don’t you understand about the word compassion.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 12:53 PM
Comment #390164

Now see to me, the topic of the OP is Rudy Guiliani’s veracity and ability to be critical of our President. I praised the guy that went to Canada and called Guiliani a chickenshit. I some times too wonder where you come up with your drivel.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 12:58 PM
Comment #390167

And to me, it’s about “The Question Giuliani Asked.”
If you would have brought up his “veracity and ability to be critical of our President,” I would have responded that the accuracy of his comments were based on how one defines love of country, and that I believe everybody should have the ability to be critical of our government.
See, reasoned debate of opinions isn’t so hard when you stick with what is actually said.

I know you praise one but condemn the other. I am more consistent so I condemn both actions.
Again, differing opinions, but easy to discuss when dealing with what is actually said.

“I some times too wonder where you come up with your drivel”

That wonderment comes from not respecting different opinions. It’s always easier to deflect or dismiss differing opinions, than it is to address them. It happens alot when people argue from emotion, rather than from fact.

Posted by: kctim at February 26, 2015 1:18 PM
Comment #390177

No I completely respect other opinions even yours although that doesn’t allow me to discern how you reach your conclusions. Again with the emotion stuff, please it gets old and I have already proven to you time and time again that your emotional responses to the completely legal policies of progressive liberals is something you respond to with, well emotional misgivings.

Look I think we both act condescending to each other when we comment but that doesn’t mean that I don’t respect and support your ability to express yours.

Thanks to phx8 there are plenty of instances that he points out of how our President displays his love of country. You might peruse some of them to better understand what you are attempting to discuss. The question Giuliani asked is irrelevant by considering the source. A deadbeat draft dodger that used the connections and subtle legalities to skirt conscripted service to his country. Sorry but I wouldn’t even be able to consider his question valid and you should not either.

You know you libertarian tea party types are all over the map when trying to express your disdain with our country. This is part of the reason that it is hard to follow what you espouse. It seems to me to be grounded in some strange other worldly political ambitions to return us to a time that I would rather not go to (200+ years ago). At any rate it just comes across to me as disdain with our country. I say either get over it, petition for what you want or move to a country more suitable to your desires.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 2:23 PM
Comment #390189

Speaks

I did not question President Obama’s love of country, so there is no need for me to go back over the info Phx8 offered.

As I already said, I do not care about Rudy. Call him what you wish.
As one of the lefts latest talking points questions the patriotism of people who don’t support taxes to redistribute wealth, his question doesn’t really mean much to me either. That is why I instead chose to post about what makes people ask that question.

It is not fair to Libertarians or Tea Party members to lump me in with them. I am sure some of my beliefs overlap with them, but I pretty much reject political parties and only support my country and our Constitution.

My “disdain” is for what people are changing our country into, not for the country herself. If a person knows the Constitution and is pro individual rights and freedoms, then it is very easy to follow what I am saying.

“I say either get over it, petition for what you want or move to a country more suitable to your desires.”

How about this: Seeing how I am already in a country with the potential to once again be more suitable to my desires, how about you move to a country like France, instead of trying to change the US into France?

Posted by: kctim at February 26, 2015 3:28 PM
Comment #390195

I was drafted into the Army in 1963. I took an oath just as obama did. I did not violate my oath, obama has numerous times.

Speak wrote; “We also had a mutual friend who was adamant about not enlisting and moved to Canada. I hold more respect for the fellow who moved to Canada than I do for Guiliani. You see the guy who moved to Canada lived by the courage of his convictions and gave up his citizenship because of it.”

Only an extreme leftie could write such sophistry.

Speak writes of leaving WB. Goodbye!

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 3:57 PM
Comment #390196

Speak wrote; “Again with the emotion stuff, please it gets old…”

In his previous post he praises obama for his “compassion”.

You’re right…it is an old liberal ploy using emotion instead of logic and rule of law.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 4:05 PM
Comment #390197

At last nights Town Hall meeting obama said…”“If somebody’s working for ICE and there’s a policy and they don’t follow the policy, there’re gonna be consequences to it.”

What an astounding statement. Punish ICE workers for following the “law” rather than an executive (policy) dictate. No punishment for the illegal immigrant lawbreakers.

This guy in the WH is losing his grip on reality. He promotes lawlessness and punishes those who follow the law.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 4:13 PM
Comment #390199
And to me, it’s about “The Question Giuliani Asked.”

And that is the problem kctim, Giuliani didn’t ask a question, instead he made a false accusation that appeals to the emotions of conservatives. So when the whole premise is wrong the defense of the false premise is also wrong.

You’re right…it is an old liberal ploy using emotion instead of logic and rule of law.

And once again Royal uses the straw man fallacy, based in emotional appeal to those on the right, while claiming it is liberals that use emotion instead of logic.

He defends his position by telling us we must identify the vague and ambiguous value he calls “love of country” despite Giuliani and Royals inability to prove the original statement to be true. He suggests, wrongly of course, that we must answer his demand yet when the demand is answered by phx8 he denies it. But he still has the arrogance to insist his vain straw man argument has anything but emotional appeal to those on the right. So he retreats to blaming others and pointing the finger at liberals whilst defending the lies of Giuliani.

“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel”- Samuel Johnson

Posted by: j2t2 at February 26, 2015 4:44 PM
Comment #390200

kct I am not displaying disdain for our country today. You did and do. My suggestion was meant to give you alternatives. I guess one of them should have been stop displaying such a disdain for our country but hey it’s a free country so I guess you can gripe as much as you want. I will just ignore your griping. I do not need another country and it would seem that you do, that is all I meant. Perhaps you should petition the courts for redress on your constant unconstitutional statements. Such a noble belief, no party just support your country and constitution, noble indeed. How about using some of that nobleness to not deride our country constantly on this blog then? I am sorry but it is not very easy for me to follow what you are saying because you just use vague comments about unconstitutionality of something or other, that could be because I don’t spend enough time trying to understand your arguments but then again I don’t like to go to far down the rabbit hole with people who spout that stuff. You obviously know very little about France but I would not want to live there.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:02 PM
Comment #390201

It is obvious that many on the left confuse love of country with love of government. Lefties love government, the bigger and more regulating the better.

Their open defiance of those documents founding our country is openly admitted by some, and suggested by others.

Hate the Founders
Hate the Constitution
Hate organized religion
Hate social restraints
Hate American involvement in securing peace in the world
Hate individual liberty and freedom
Hate equality
Hate capitalism
Hate free enterprise

And…love government.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 5:21 PM
Comment #390204

RF, please be specific about President Obama violating his oath of office. I don’t want vague “he’s lawless, he’s unconstitutional, he’s a Kenyan colonialist”. You will need to provide specific rulings by a court of law that finds that he violated his oath of office.

I know you do not understand respecting someone standing up for their convictions as your displays here don’t seem to show that at all. Leaving WB? Where did you get that idea?

No I asked what don’t you understand about the word compassion of someone who says over and over again “don’t you understand the meaning of illegal?” There was no mention of President Obama in that sentence and he did not use that word. Please stop misusing my comments to suit your delusions.

In that same conversation President Obama told the young veteran that for an ICE official not to follow his orders it would be similar to him (the veteran) not following military orders. He said there would be consequences in both instances and that is not outside of his authority as the President and his executive actions regardless of how you feel about the executive actions.

I will say something that kctim neglected to say though, thank you for your service.

Oh and yes please read j2t2’s comment maybe it will help you understand but I doubt it. Glad you watched the Town Hall last night. I thought it was great. What did you think? This should be really interesting.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:32 PM
Comment #390205

RF, well now you are just commenting foolishly. Good luck getting anyone to pay attention to it.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:33 PM
Comment #390207

RF and oh yes I forgot to ask you what did you think of the research phx8 so graciously did for you? Were you able to get through all of that? Now maybe you can reciprocate by sending links of our President displaying that he does not love our country. And again they can’t be vague innuendos from some right wing crazy website but real words from his mouth stating that he does not love our country. Should be easy for you to do with all you say about him. phx8 did your work for you now let’s see you do some work for yourself.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:45 PM
Comment #390208

Please Google obama’s statements about “not” having Constitutional authority and then waking up in a new world where he “found” Constitutional authority.

This guy has a memory of convenience…

Until courts rule on pending suits even obama is “presumed” not to be in violation of his oath of office.

Just as obama made judgements on civil cases before a jury decided a verdict, I do the same on his lawlessness.

He has challenged the congress to stop his unlawful executive actions. How arrogant. Congress alone makes laws. His job is to enforce laws…not change them or decide which one he likes or agrees with. He is an outlaw.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 5:48 PM
Comment #390210

RF what you do about his supposed “lawlessness” is your business and part of your alternate reality. I won’t go there. I guess you did not watch the Town Hall last night because he explained very carefully why he had authority to issue his executive actions. Maybe you went for popcorn then and missed that part?

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:54 PM
Comment #390212

RF and as he said last night, he gave the Republicans in the HOR a year and a half to do something about immigration and during that year and a half he made statements to help them make a decision. When they did not he also stated that that was when he needed to act within the bounds of his authority which he did with the executive actions.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 26, 2015 5:57 PM
Comment #390213

What part of this is confusing to you Speak. “Congress alone makes laws. His job is to enforce laws…not change them or decide which one he likes or agrees with. He is an outlaw.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 6:01 PM
Comment #390216

I am curious Speak, do you believe there is any limit to a presidents executive actions with regard to enforcing established law? If so, what is it?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 26, 2015 6:10 PM
Comment #390217

Only if the President is a Republican, R.F.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at February 26, 2015 6:16 PM
Comment #390238

Royal this incessant whining from conservatives on presidential executive orders is a bit late isn’t it? Acting as if Obama initiated executive orders his self, The false accusations, the guilty until proven innocent mindset, all symptoms of Obama Derangement Syndrome, IMHO.

Because you seem to have your panties in a bunch over this, here is a link regarding executive orders and the history starting with good old George Washington himself. Hell the conservative deity Reagan issued twice as many as Obama without a word of protest from the self righteous conservatives who now find the executive order to be

“Just as obama made judgements on civil cases before a jury decided a verdict, I do the same on his lawlessness.
He has challenged the congress to stop his unlawful executive actions. How arrogant. Congress alone makes laws. His job is to enforce laws…not change them or decide which one he likes or agrees with. He is an outlaw.”

Hell Royal, the emancipation proclamation was an executive order issued by Lincoln, bet that had conservatives in a tizzy.

All this BS you bring up about liberals is just that BS. I especially laud you for the “like a civil cases” giving you the supposed moral high ground to condemn the president, it shows how conservatives are staunch supporters of the parts of the constitution that they can manipulate to support their derangement. Seems to me you have been consistently wrong on this thread with your hateful accusations and falsehoods. Time to step up and refute your ignorance, IMHO, or at the least capitalize the “O” in Obama in your posts as you do with the names of others. I know, I know but its the ODS no mater how much you are in denial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

Posted by: j2t2 at February 27, 2015 8:43 AM
Comment #390241

RF as I said previously, President Obama waited a year and a half for Congress to act on a law even giving them cover by making statements that they needed to act with a sense of urgency. After a year and a half he made the decision to use executive action. We will watch as this process now works through the courts. He did say during the Town Hall that he expects his executive actions to be upheld. You seem to have a warped sense of justice by accusing him of being an outlaw, innocent until proven guilty being the foundation of our process of law. But as j2t2 tries to tell you we understand that you have the ODS bug bad. You need to take your medicine like a man and let the courts decide.

We elect people to be Presidents. There have been many, many executive actions and even some executive orders by both Republicans and Democrats in office. I trust the men that are elected as Presidents to make the decision on the limits they have to abide by, after all that is why we elect them as Presidents. Now you seem to want to negate that by declaring Royal Flush knows better than any elected President. Yet your experience in elected office would not seem to support the office of dog catcher.

How about those examples (real ones, not your hair on fire crazy stuff) of him being found guilty in a court of law of violating his oath of office? Or the examples of the words coming from his mouth that speaks to his love of our country? Can’t find any? We didn’t think you could but I doubt if you even tried. Your bluff and bluster is getting tedious if you can’t substantiate it with evidence (again real evidence, not your made up stuff).

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 9:39 AM
Comment #390244

Thanks for the link j2. Here’s an excerpt which you perhaps missed because it was at the very beginning…lol.

“Major policy initiatives require approval by the legislative branch, but executive orders have significant influence over the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced, dealing with emergencies, waging 72-hour length strikes on enemies, and in general fine-tuning policy choices in the implementation of broad statutes.”

Does obama’s EO on illegal immigrants match this description?

Speak writes; “You seem to have a warped sense of justice by accusing him of being an outlaw…”

Right, he is outside the law…an outlaw.

Speak: “Now you seem to want to negate that by declaring Royal Flush knows better than any elected President.”

The president himself said he didn’t have the power. But then, he awoke in a new world and decided he did. What a jerk.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 11:21 AM
Comment #390246

The Legislative Branch says the President does not have authority to reward illegal residents with his proposed slate of benefits. The Judicial Branch has forbidden the President from pursuing his plan. Yet the President is threatening Federal workers to obey him—or else.

Smells like a tyrant and outlaw to me.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 11:30 AM
Comment #390247

Here’s a link to a video clip of obama “hisssself” calling President Bush unpatriotic.

http://freedomforce.com/1858/msnbc-notices-media-double-standard-nobody-minds-when-democrats-question-republican-patriotism-but-media-freaks-out-when-the-situation-reverses/

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 11:37 AM
Comment #390248

RF, he was attempting to placate the dysfunctional HOR by making those statements. They were true, he did not have the authority by law to act and was holding their feet to the fire in an attempt to get them to do something, anything about a law and when they did not after a year and a half he began his executive action which as j2t2’s link points out has been done by quite a few other President’s and is completely within the power of his office. Please try to learn the difference between an executive order and an executive action, if you can discern the difference it might lead you to understand why he used an executive action and not an order. He is not “outside the law” but your interpretations are beginning to seem “outside of reality”. You poor tortured soul. I would express sympathy for you but you bring this torture on yourself and can easily remedy that. Now who seems like a jerk? Where’s the examples?

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 11:38 AM
Comment #390250

The judicial branch has not negated the DACA ruling they have only delayed the latest EA regarding relatives. This ruling is temporary pending the appeal by the Executive branch and will probably be decided by the 5th circuit court eventually. He’s not threatening anyone except people that do not do the job that they are appointed to do.

Something does smell here but it’s your comments. Where’s the examples of legal decisions of him being found violating his oath of office?

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 11:47 AM
Comment #390252
Thanks for the link j2. Here’s an excerpt which you perhaps missed because it was at the very beginning…lol.

Royal and you missed the point, executive orders are not anything like you and other conservatives, after all these years of silence, now find to be so unconstitutional. You are suffering from ODS as you have proven by the centuries of silence on the issue of executive orders. At anytime over the last two plus centuries Congress could have passed a law to deal with executive orders, most recently when GWB was abusing the privilege conservatives remained silent or applauded his actions, but it didn’t happen.

It is silliness on your part to point to one paragraph in the wiki post as somehow justifying you position, in fact Royal it is laughable. It points out your hatred for liberals in general and Obama in particular. The fact is Obama issued a directive to Immigration to focus on a certain group of illegals which seems to me to fall in line with “the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced,”. Yet you seem to think you have found some smoking gun when in fact you have fallen victim to ODS because of the amount of conservative propaganda on the issue.

Tell you what take a look at the list of executive action and then tell all of us what a lawless tyrant outlaw Lincoln was for issuing the emancipation proclamation or Eisenhower was for integrating he armed forces or W for sealing presidential records by executive order. I believe you have a harder time doing that because you suffer from ODS not WDS or EDS or LDS. Your hatred of Obama is blinding you to certain realities, my friend, time to take off the aluminum foil hat and turn off the conservative propaganda.

IN regards to your double standards link I can only ask where the hell were you guys, your propagandist, when these people supposedly questioned the patriotism of a conservative? If they objected perhaps they should have raised the issue and come to the defense of the wounded party. This “well they did it to” fallacy is sad, time to leave it on the playground. It doesn’t give you carte blanche to make illogical and false claims about executive orders nor Obama.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 27, 2015 12:15 PM
Comment #390254

LOL…j2 makes an azz of himself by posting a link that directly refutes his EO argument. Then he doubles down by trying to make it read something else. To add to his humerus response, he gives some non-examples of violating existing law.

The emancipation proclamation was issued under the President’s war powers and it excluded areas not in rebellion The Proclamation was based on the president’s constitutional authority as commander in chief of the armed forces.

Sealing presidential records does not violate law.

Was there a congressional law against integrating the Armed Forces?

Get a good nights sleep j2 so your mind isn’t so fuzzy in the morning.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 12:51 PM
Comment #390256

It won’t be long before my liberal friends, out of arguments defending obama’s illegal actions, to begin talking about “compassion” as a reason to violate the presidential oath.

I find nothing in the Constitution excusing illegal presidential action based upon compassion.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 12:56 PM
Comment #390260

Seems to me that you are the one out of arguments, RF. Where’s the examples of legal decisions of President Obama violating his oath of office?

That word compassion has to be giving you some problems, we know. The definition mentions sympathy and sorrow with a want to alleviate that. Not only do you not know how to experience compassion you don’t understand the meaning of it. I am not surprised.

No one is excusing President Obama of anything here, there is no need to. Now we understand that this legal stuff makes your head hurt but maybe you should just trust us on this one. He has done nothing illegal. Period.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 2:13 PM
Comment #390261

Speak: His words alone will convict him…”I am Not Authorized” becomes I will do what I damn well please until someone stops me. The legal machinery is running. I can wait.

Why are tyrants so attractive to lefties?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 2:21 PM
Comment #390263

Why are telling lies so attractive to righties?

I guess you should have listened to his words during the Town Hall on Wednesday night. His words were very explicit in as much as he was confident that his EA would be upheld. I can wait but you don’t seem to be able to and want to convict him of disagreeing with you. I’ll wait and take what the courts say, you are not trustworthy in this matter.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 2:33 PM
Comment #390266

The left has often informed us of obama’s great legal training and excellent constitutional knowledge.

How is it then that he was so mistaken when he said he didn’t have the constitutional power to change immigration law by himself? He correctly stated that he needed congressional approval.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 2:44 PM
Comment #390267

He is not changing immigration law by himself. He is prioritizing the implementation of the law as is required of him. That you fail to see this is not his fault. He did not need congressional approval for his executive actions and we are all getting very tired of trying to explain that to you. You now are beginning to seem like the petulant child that doesn’t understand why they can’t have everything their way. I’ll try this, because I said so!

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 2:48 PM
Comment #390269

It is almost unbelievable the hyperbole when reading some comments by our leftie friends. Example; “prioritizing the implementation of the law…” by not enforcing it. LOL

Let’s see, sure wish obama would prioritize tax law so I don’t have to pay taxes.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 3:24 PM
Comment #390271

No by setting the priorities of the law, it’s his job to do that. You think it is hyperbole because you view fox news to much and they don’t know how to explain it to you. The law is implemented by the executive branch of government and priorities are designed to help the law be effective. Now if you would have watched the Town Hall meeting as I suggested you would have been able to hear your President explain that his executive actions merely set a higher priority on deporting criminals than it does on family members of the DACA beneficiaries. See prioritizing is another of those words that give your problems, similar to truth.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 3:38 PM
Comment #390273

Oh and our President got a little bit funny during the Town Hall and it was especially meant for people like you when he pointed out what the cost might be to complete deportation of 11 million people. Suffice it to say he kind of made a reference that it is difficult enough now to convince Congress of anything let alone a $60 billion effort to deport all of those people. Not gonna happen.

Posted by: Speak4all at February 27, 2015 3:42 PM
Comment #390283

More humor from the left…gotta love it.

Speak sure is fixated on Fox News and me. Hmmm…can’t remember the last time I mentioned them. Hey Speak, wake up…its only a dream.

Glad obama admits that he can’t enforce two laws at once. Let’s see, legalize over 5 million folks, give them unearned benefits, and then, maybe his enforcement folks will have time for criminals. What a deal for taxpayers.

I think I once saw obama pick his nose and chew gum at the same time.

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 6:15 PM
Comment #390284

Speak, isn’t it time for your grandkids to read you a bedtime story?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 27, 2015 6:16 PM
Comment #390295
LOL…j2 makes an azz of himself by posting a link that directly refutes his EO argument. Then he doubles down by trying to make it read something else. To add to his humerus response, he gives some non-examples of violating existing law.

Royal how sad that you have to conjure up such nonsense using your misguided twisting of facts.Once again “It is silliness on your part to point to one paragraph in the wiki post as somehow justifying you position, in fact Royal it is laughable. It points out your hatred for liberals in general and Obama in particular. The fact is Obama issued a directive to Immigration to focus on a certain group of illegals which seems to me to fall in line with “the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced,”. Yet you seem to think you have found some smoking gun when in fact you have fallen victim to ODS because of the amount of conservative propaganda on the issue. “


The emancipation proclamation was issued under the President’s war powers and it excluded areas not in rebellion The Proclamation was based on the president’s constitutional authority as commander in chief of the armed forces.

SO the intent of article 2 section 2 of the constitution was to free slaves in rebellious states! It seems like a major policy initiative to me Royal especially since they had to add an amendment to the constitution just a few years later. The difference being no one in Congress took exception to it at the time. Of course those states with representatives in Congress that were affected by the executive order had seceded.

Sealing presidential records does not violate law.

Of course Royal , it kinda reminds me of the saying “It isn’t fascism when we do it”

From Wiki-
“Executive Order 13233, issued by President George W. Bush in 2001, which restricted public access to the papers of former presidents, was criticized by the Society of American Archivists and other groups, stating that it “violates both the spirit and letter of existing U.S. law on access to presidential papers as clearly laid down in 44 USC. 2201–07,” and adding that the order “potentially threatens to undermine one of the very foundations of our nation”. President Obama revoked Executive Order 13233 in January 2009.[14]”

Was there a congressional law against integrating the Armed Forces?

Is it a major policy initiative!

Mountains out of mole hills Royal, conservatives are making mountains out of molehills when it comes to Obama and his use of executive orders.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 28, 2015 9:28 AM
Comment #390299

$20 Billion “mole hill”?

“Illegal immigrants who filed tax returns using Taxpayer Identification Numbers from the IRS have been receiving billions in CTC payments from the federal government for years. Obama’s Deferred Action for Parental Accountability program would make it easier for millions more illegal immigrants to receive tax benefits by giving the SSNs.

With a SSN, illegal immigrants become eligible for both CTC and EITC payments. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that if Obama’s executive amnesties are kept for the next ten years, illegal immigrants will receive more than $20 billion in EITC patients over that time.

According to the CBO, under Obama’s amnesty programs, illegal immigrants would also get $3 billion in health care benefits, $2 billion in Supplemental Security Income, and $1.6 billion in food stamps.

When Obama first introduced his DAPA program to the American people, he claimed it would not “offer the same benefits that citizens receive.”

These official CRS and CBO letters directly contradict that statement.”

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2015/02/26/illegal-immigrants-amnestied-by-obama-eligible-for-up-to-9182-in-cash-benefits-every-year-n1962962

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 28, 2015 2:49 PM
Comment #390301

Oh Brother Royal, the executive order issued by Obama has nothing to do with this. If any of this townhall story is real the problem isn’t due to the executive order. Lets face it we have laws on the books that prevent illegal’s from getting federal benefits.

The real problem with the executive order that has so many conservatives panties in a bunch is the fact that it highlighted the inability of the repub lead Congress to do anything constructive. Strengthen the laws, help the IRS enforce the laws, or whatever but to blame the executive order signed by Obama is the paramount of conservative ignorance IMHO. Time to hold the conservative extremist representatives responsible for governing instead of grandstanding and making fools of themselves with one backassward ploy after another. Get them to work on a immigration plan instead of allowing their propagandist to make up BS stories that tell us they may be “eligible” to get money from the feds.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 28, 2015 4:19 PM
Comment #390302

Get them to work on a immigration plan instead of allowing their propagandist to make up BS stories that tell us they may be “eligible” to get money from the feds.
Posted by: j2t2 at February 28, 2015 4:19 PM

Hmmm…if it is true, will you become Conservative?

Posted by: Royal Flush at February 28, 2015 6:46 PM
Comment #390303

Royal, being eligible for and actually receiving federal money are two different things. Especially when according to the IRS there are laws in place that prohibit illegals from collecting federal monies. So just because they may be “eligible” for federal funds by doing something illegal doesn’t mean they will actually receive federal funds.

The executive order to my understanding doesn’t grant amnesty but instead directs ICE to not make their deportation an enforcement priority. Running fearful sensationalist headlines that scare many into believing we are just giving money to foreigners just confuses the issue. Once again the answer is to demand Congress step up, that the far right quit demanding total compliance to their extreme ideology or nothing happens in Congress. Close the loopholes, enact laws that work for immigration reform instead of embarrassing themselves with political blundering and bad governing.

As far as becoming a conservative, let say I will side with conservatives when they are right on an issue. When they can put forth a law tempered in reality not extremist ideology.

Posted by: j2t2 at February 28, 2015 7:32 PM
Comment #390307

Hmmm…hard to determine if j2’s answer was yes or no.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 1, 2015 2:39 PM
Comment #390318

RF, my grandchildren have a better reading capability than you do, obviously. Your insistence in blaming all matters of problems on President Obama’s executive actions really only points out your bias of anything liberal, anything progressive, anything about President Obama and I am beginning to believe anything good about our country. You do this to portray President Obama in the worst possible depiction. This lunacy track you have decided to take to comment on this is obvious to anyone that takes the time to parse your comments. It’s kind of disgusting, but I am not surprised.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 9:48 AM
Comment #390320
Hmmm…hard to determine if j2’s answer was yes or no.


The real question is will extremist conservatives ever be “right on an issue. When they can put forth a law tempered in reality not extremist ideology.”

Looks like you took no exception to my response to the foolishness of the townhall link though Royal. Perhaps you will hold your extremist conservative representatives fingers to the fire Royal. Perhaps they will grow the f**k up and deal with governing like real people instead listening to these ill mannered inbred ideologist dead set on ruining the country.

Posted by: j2t2 at March 2, 2015 10:13 AM
Comment #390324

MY, MY, both Speak and j2 seem to be an extra pinch grouchy today. But then, that’s the usual trait of those defending nonsense and tyranny on WB.

Closed and hateful minds attract each other I guess.

COMING SOON to your computer…Government tyranny on the internet.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2015 1:02 PM
Comment #390327

RF, tin foil hat removal is recommended for your condition. I think myself, I have not been being grouchy about anything except expressing a sense of wonderment at your denials of the reality of what we are attempting to discuss. I guess you would know about having a closed and hateful mind and I have heard that people suffering from this sometimes project their symptoms onto others. I have much to be thankful for. You on the other hand just seem to want to gripe about, deride and show disdain for our great country, not unlike so many other conservatives that come to comment here.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 2:18 PM
Comment #390331

You on the other hand just seem to want to gripe about, deride and show disdain for our great country, not unlike so many other conservatives that come to comment here.
Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 2:18 PM

I challenge you to give just one quote from me showing disdain for this country. Parsing is not allowed.

I have many times recounted the God-given resources that help make our country great.

Our geography, rivers, coastlines, minerals, forests, founders and founding documents, religious beliefs, and people are all part of our greatness.

I will not allow some TWIT to demean me regarding love of country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2015 4:53 PM
Comment #390333

So your word for the day is “twit”? My how you are progressing in your communication skills Royal. No parsing necessary, the third comment on this post has your disdain written and expressed by you:

Is it love that adds many trillions of debt to the shoulders of our young men and women?

Is it love that welcomes illegals into our country rewarding them with government benefits not available to our own citizens?

Is is love that causes a president to violate his oath and violate our Constitution for enrichment of his own power?

Is it love that creates a health care system that rewards the unproductive and punishes the productive?

Is it love that desires to take from wealth producers and give it to non-producers?

Is it love that urges a president to publicly declare the United States responsible for many of the world’s ills?

All of the above comments by you only exists in that tormented area between your ears than for lack of a better explanation has to be referred to on this blog as the great void.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 5:13 PM
Comment #390334

I don’t think you know what the word disdain means.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 5:15 PM
Comment #390335

My wife and I did not like what the GW Bush administration was doing to our country. We did not rant and rave about how we thought he was a terrible President, we did not call him names and act like a childish miscreant. We looked for and found a candidate that we could support for President. Thankfully he was elected as President by her, myself and millions and millions of other voters in this country. Now we know it wasn’t all the voters but we expected some of the more intelligent ones that did not vote for President Obama to be as resourceful as we were. Instead of constantly displaying your disdain of this country in your comments it would seem more beneficial that you would choose someone to support as an alternative to our present President. I don’t ever seem to get much of that from you in your comments. I can only say that perhaps it is because of the choices that you have to draw from as a potential presidential candidate.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 5:28 PM
Comment #390336

I don’t think you know what the word “twit” means.

We were talking about love of country and this twit can only write about love of obama. Some minds equate the two.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2015 5:41 PM
Comment #390337

My but you are exceeding your ability to communicate without resolving to using derogatory statements. Struck a nerve did I? Look it’s not my fault you don’t understand what you type in your comments. Our President is the elected executive of our country whether you like him or not, he represents our country by occupying the highest elected office of this country. I have explained to you before I have no “love of Obama” (we all see that you still can’t bring yourself to capitalize his name). I like what he is doing and support our President. You can object to that but you should do so as a thinking adult and not drift off into your childish name calling and spiteful comments. Perhaps I am expecting to much of you?

Posted by: Speak4all at March 2, 2015 5:51 PM
Comment #390339

What happened to your discussion of my love of country.

OH, wait, I forget. Speak is memory challenged. All he can write about is his (****) for obama.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2015 6:07 PM
Comment #390340

The left on WB reminds me of some players in Texas holdem. They play “showdown” and go all-in before the flop and wonder why they lose their stack.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 2, 2015 6:33 PM
Comment #390342

RF, I leave the card playing references to you as all you seem to think is that this is some kind of game, childish fool. Why not focus on what you and the people you could support could do for this country. And yes, I do question your supposed “love of country” because you don’t ever, and I mean ever, display any of that here on this blog. All we see from you is your hokey displays of disdain for our sitting President which directly reflects on your opinion of our country whether you think it does or not. The insignificance you display of being able to judge a person that has attained the highest elected office is ridiculous when considering where you are and what you have attained. Sorry but you fail. Of course that is my estimation of your comments but hey it’s a free country.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 9:39 AM
Comment #390344

“The insignificance you display of being able to judge a person that has attained the highest elected office is…”
EVIDENCE OF NOT LOVING OUR COUNTRY…LOL

Once again the Twit-master has revealed that his love of a man is paramount in love of country.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 12:44 PM
Comment #390345

Well now you are just making no sense at all but again I am not surprised. You really should seek some help. You used to make cogent comments but have reduced them to inexplicable meanderings of a person with some mental problems sprinkled with your derogatory words. Please get some help.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 12:51 PM
Comment #390346

Calm down Speak, I know you have a reading problem. Get those Grandkids to read you a bedtime story and follow along with your finger.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 1:06 PM
Comment #390347

OK Speak, I am sorry you can’t understand. Translation: The left believes that one can not love our country without loving the sitting president.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 1:14 PM
Comment #390348

On the contrary, although I cannot speak for this “left” you continuously refer to, I myself see nothing wrong with disagreeing with President Obama in a thoughtful manner. Haven’t seen much thought in the recent comments you have made. Hey what do you think of Speaker Boehner’s action to bring a clean DHS funding bill to the floor without any immigration amendments attached to it? Also Israeli TV did not broadcast Bibi’s speech to the joint houses of Congress that was minus some stalwart democrats (yay). What is Bibi’s plan if not to continue to attempt to negotiate? Just let Iran do what it wants and then bomb them out of existence? It is my contention that those are his real motives, to portray Iran as the ‘other’ and turn the world against them. Let’s hope the people of Israel see him for what he is (a warmonger) and give him his walking papers in a couple of weeks.

Try to say something nice about our country without bringing President Obama into it and I might reconsider my opinion of your “love of country”.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 2:12 PM
Comment #390350

LOL…here’s the “opinion” changing statement that Speak desires. America is great despite liberal attempts to make it weak and unlovable.

The Iranians have outwitted our dimwits in DC.

Without an agreement they are assured of getting nuclear weapons as obama will not act to prevent it. With an agreement they are assured of getting nuclear weapons as the (supposed)agreement allows.

Neville obama will wave a piece of paper and declare victory.

Sanctions worked. Sanctions got Iran to the table. Sanctions will be lifted. Iran will get nuclear weapons.

Surprise, Surprise.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 3:13 PM
Comment #390351

No opinion change here. I’d like to see you somehow profess love of country without denigrating someone else in this country, I don’t think you can do that though.

No agreement or with an agreement they get weapons? WTF, did you just give up? Are you now a surrender monkey?

The house just approved the bill to fund DHS without any strings attached. This is great news for the people of the United States that want security and good governance. Now let’s see what the courts say about President Obama’s EA.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 3:36 PM
Comment #390352

” WTF, did you just give up? Are you now a surrender monkey?”

Nope, that’s another monkey. (Just in case Speak thinks that’s racist, he should know I use that word to mean the same as he does.)

I love America for reasons unrelated to politics unlike my liberal friends.

I love America for her founding documents establishing the greatest Republic ever in the world and in which I am privileged to live.

I love America for being built on the rock solid unalienable rights conferred on all by our Creator.

I love America for her boundless freedom and liberty with a classless society able to rise or sink to whatever level they desire within the law.

I love America for her God-given natural resources.

I love America for her willingness to sacrifice wealth and blood in the defense of freedom around the world.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 3:58 PM
Comment #390353

Wow you almost did it except for the first one “unlike my liberal friends”. You see you denigrated a fellow American by saying that. I was certain that you would be unable to do that and I was correct. Keep trying, you might be able to overcome your prejudice some day.

Now watch this is how it is done:

I love my country for it’s politics (although they are not perfect there is none better), it’s people (although they are not perfect there is none better), it’s diversity of race, religion, non-religion, and political persuasion (although they are not perfect there is none better), it’s military men and women (although they are not perfect there is none better), it’s politicians be they democrat, republican, libertarian or independent (although they are not perfect there are none better). Now maybe you can add to that and you can qualify by saying as I said it’s not perfect but there is/are none better in this world. Thank you United States of America!

And thank you Speaker Boehner for allowing your love of country to outweigh your love of ideology. Slow clap to fade.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 4:11 PM
Comment #390354

I saw Nancy Pee almost weeping after the DHS house bill passed shrieking…

WE’RE SAFE…WE’RE SAFE

Speak loves America for its politicians…OH LORD, what next, our entitlements?

Of course; he can’t mention our founding documents that makes America, as I love it, even possible. What a twit. Has Speak hugged a tree today?

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 4:25 PM
Comment #390356

RF, still with the insults. You just can’t help yourself. Please get some help. And if you think words don’t do anything check out what a fellow Republican has to say about words.

And in fact yes entitlements and even the most entitled of my fellow citizens some of the old males that can’t seem to get over that the world is and has always been changing. And for the people that use food stamps and are on welfare as they strive to do better in the most adverse conditions. And for the people that hold hatred in their hearts for their fellow Americans because men and women have fought and died for them to be able to do that. And our founding documents and the liberal thoughts that allowed them to be written by regular men. But most of all for our sitting President, Barack Obama (he’s not perfect but there is none better). Had to throw that last one in there just for you.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 4:43 PM
Comment #390357

Speak, the bell just rang. Don’t be late for your remedial American History class.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 4:53 PM
Comment #390358

Hearing bells now? I am again not surprised. There must be many things going on in that head of yours that I will never understand and really, really don’t want to. But you go ahead like I said I love even the people who choose to hate their fellow Americans but not because of them but because of the brave men and women that laid down their lives so that they would be able to express that if they wanted to. Their gesture of love of their country is in no way diminished by some of the people that would abuse the liberty that they died to defend, by hating another American. Are you part of that despicable bunch or are you part of the ones that would fight and die for them and all Americans?

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 5:03 PM
Comment #390359

Perhaps Speak could tell us what Americans found to love about this country before “entitlements” “food stamps” “welfare” and Neville obama.

Here, in a liberals own words, are those beliefs that make those who love America nauseous.

“the liberal thoughts that allowed them (founding documents) to be written by regular men.”

What “liberal thoughts” (using today’s description of liberal) would those be?

Caution Speak, please don’t embarrass yourself by using words such as “freedom” or “liberty” or “equality” or “rule of law”. Modern liberals will attest that the original meaning of those words are old-fashioned and no longer applicable.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 5:14 PM
Comment #390360

Speak is in love with the word “hate”. I rarely use that word and don’t believe I have used it in reference to an individual as he does.

Frequently, the less educated accuse those they hate of what they themselves are guilty of.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 5:18 PM
Comment #390361

I was not there then and unlike you I don’t have that wayback machine you use to find out that information. Although I think your wayback machine is coming from the place that you hear those bells.

Liberal thoughts that allowed them to defy the Crown of England. Liberal thoughts that helped them to garner the support of a bunch of unorganized colonists. Liberal thoughts that gave them the fortitude to write “All men are created equal” which put into motion women’s rights, an end to slavery and freedom from religion interfering with our government. Liberal thoughts that brought men like Thomas Paine to our country, long before it was a country and was just a bunch of colonies but helped him envision it.

What I think is old fashioned and no longer applicable is the animosity you express for your fellow Americans. It has to leave a bad taste in your mouth not to mention what it does to your thought processes.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 5:24 PM
Comment #390362

You express your hatred in the words you use as comments. I know you are unable to understand this but if you try really, really hard you might be able to understand that I still support your ability to do that, I just don’t approve of it.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 5:26 PM
Comment #390363

Your list is comprised of examples of the liberalism found today which you confuse with “Classic Liberalism” practiced by our founders.

Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government.

In the late 19th century, classical liberalism developed into neo-classical liberalism, which argued for government to be as small as possible in order to allow the exercise of individual freedom.

Modern liberals such as Speak do not practice this type of liberalism. They promote large government as necessary to regulate every aspect of society. They believe government trumps individual freedom and liberty.

They love government over country or countrymen.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 5:43 PM
Comment #390364

Speak guesses that my comments might indicate “hate” while he is bold enough to come right out and use the word against me. What a twit.

Your lesson for today Speak has ended. You are tired and grumpy and it’s nearly time for your feeding.

Your assignment for tomorrow is to write a short paper on the difference between love of country and love of an individual.

Posted by: Royal Flush at March 3, 2015 5:48 PM
Comment #390365

You have no idea what I practice. But we are all very familiar here with what you practice, and it ain’t pretty.

Lessons from a madman? No thanks I get better information from watching my grandchildren play and have fun. Your ideas are devoid of anything to learn and should be suspect as I expect most people find them.

But you are fun to mess with, it’s just that you make it too simple.

Posted by: Speak4all at March 3, 2015 5:55 PM
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