Not Fatalism in the Face of Fanaticism

The policemen in Paris arrived on push bikes, and quickly retreated. Three of them, in response to a commando-style attack by at least three heavily armed terrorists, almost certainly from Al Qaeda or ISIS. The target was satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo and survivors said the masked attackers spoke perfect French and had a list of people they meant to, and apparently did, kill. Soon afterwards the emergency response teams with their sundry vehicles arrived, after the attackers had executed a wounded policeman begging for mercy on the sidewalk, and fled. But the first response was men on bicycles, and this for a target that had been threatened in recent days and had suffered an arson attack previously. France is no stranger to terrorism, especially Paris. For decades they have endured waves of terrorist attacks, most in recent decades having to do with islamic terrorism. The country was on high alert these past days and had thwarted several attacks according to President Francois Hollande himself. Men on bicycles is not much use, however, in thwarting heavily armed commando-style terrorists.


Hebdo Editor-in-chief Gerard Biard was shocked because according to him there had been no particular violent threat against them. His offices are in the 11th arrondissement with a large Algerian-Muslim population. His satirical cartoonist and editorial director Stephane Charbonnier was the subject of a fatwa. What level of denial is Biard sloshing around in?! It is surely not easy to run a satirical weekly that pokes fun at Islam and recently tweeted a cartoon of ISIS leader al-Baghdadi, but to presume that a minimum level of security is sufficient and that there are no specific threats against you when there is a Facebook page titled "Execute Stephane Charbonnier" is delusional. Maybe it helped Editor-in-chief Biard cope with the real fear that comes with satirizing elements of Islam nowadays. The kind of fear most of us don't have to live with, at least not on a constant basis. With a large number of his colleagues executed, Biard will have the lonely and anguishing task of trying to make sense of the violence. As terrorism expert Walid Phares - who grew up in civil-war racked Beirut before studying in France and moving to study and live in the U.S. - stated, France is now at war with islamic terrorists. Are they up to the task? Tactically and strategically, there is no doubt that France easily has the capacity to ramp up their terrorism readiness. They will surely say they have been doing just that for years now. Let's hope for the sake of all democratic societies who respect freedom of expression, that they are successful in their efforts to track down and bring these killers to justice. And let us pray that they are find support across international boundaries, so that the voices of people like Swedish artist Lars Vilks - a very brave man who has faced death threats for his cartoons - who in an interview this Wednesday deemed it "impossible" to defend journalists and cartoonists against heavily armed attackers, will be countered by voices saying here's how we solve this and here's how we protect freedom. Fatalism in the face of fanaticism, even by those brave enough to challenge that very fanaticism, is not the response we need. We need instead security solutions and political solutions that protect and enable the freedoms we cherish to survive and prosper.

Posted by Keeley at January 12, 2015 5:51 PM
Comments
Comment #387237

There was much solidarity against Islamic terrorism in Paris with dozens of world leaders present to protest. The US sent only our ambassador…for shame.

While it is admirable to see the solidarity now, in France, where were those same leaders when help was needed to stamp out these fanatics elsewhere in the world before this latest attack?

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 12, 2015 6:29 PM
Comment #387239

Bicycles can be faster than cars in urban environments. Unless the idea is for police to drive around in tanks.

RF, I see no reason why anyone other than an ambassador should attend a march. Our alliance with France is rock solid, and we view each other as close allies. The French are often even more hard core than Americans when it comes to combating terrorism, due to their history with Algeria and Colonialism, and a strong feeling of paternal responsibility to former colonies like Mali and Chad.

Need I remind what conservatives were saying about the French in 2003? Remember “Freedom Fries” and “cheese eating surrender monkeys”? Today, our alliance is strong. Then, our alliance was in tatters when the French refused to go along with the fake reasons conservatives gave for invading Iraq.

American conservatives believe the US is exceptional, justified in torturing innocents, and should be feared. That is why conservatives are widely held in contempt by most of the world. Under Obama, US relations and favorability ratings have improved with every major country, except Israel and Pakistan. The Israelis are pariahs. The Pakistanis never forgave Obama for bagging Bin Laden on their turf.

I’m pretty sure the French will forgive any perceived slight over attending a protest.

Posted by: phx8 at January 12, 2015 6:50 PM
Comment #387240

Spin, spin, spin. It isn’t about France, its about national leaders showing solidarity against terrorism.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 12, 2015 7:01 PM
Comment #387243

Security against this type of attack is very difficult, if not impossible. Charlie Hebdo was under police protection. The editor of Charlie Hebdo had an experienced, armed federal police bodyguard. But, he only managed to get two shots off before being killed. The secure entrance was breached when an employee was forced to enter the code under gun point.

The only real solution is to address the source of this fanaticism in the Middle East. In particular, radical Sunni extremism (Wahhabism) which has fostered al-Qaeda and ISIS. The source of this version of Sunni Islam is Saudi Arabia which has used its money to proselytize Wahhabism throughout the region and has funded militant groups in Syria and elsewhere. Where did Osama bin Ladin and the 9/11 terrorists come from?

In my opinion, it is time for Saudi Arabia to step up to the plate on this issue.

Posted by: Rich at January 12, 2015 7:10 PM
Comment #387244

n my opinion, it is time for Saudi Arabia to step up to the plate on this issue.
Posted by: Rich at January 12, 2015 7:10 PM

And many others as well.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 12, 2015 7:12 PM
Comment #387246

Police arrive on “very fast” bicycles, with “very hard” Billy clubs. Yes…very much like an idiot bringing a knife to a gun fight.

We will now have to listen to the litany of reasons why Obama failed to properly represent the US in the European field. However, the H press sec announced that the WH had dropped the ball(again) on this one.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 12, 2015 7:24 PM
Comment #387248

“And many others as well.”

But, none more important than Saudi Arabia, Royal. Its time that they took control over the monster they created before it devours them and the entire Middle East.

“For their guiding principles, the leaders of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, are open and clear about their almost exclusive commitment to the Wahhabi movement of Sunni Islam. The group circulates images of Wahhabi religious textbooks from Saudi Arabia in the schools it controls. Videos from the group’s territory have shown Wahhabi texts plastered on the sides of an official missionary van.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Politics

Posted by: Rich at January 12, 2015 7:50 PM
Comment #387249

We might have missed a photo op, but AG Holder was in France at the time attending a counterterrorism meeting. Solidarity is not an issue. Our relations with our allies are far better than they used to be under the previous administration.

This strikes me as a non-story. Personally, I think the fact oil continued tanking and closed under $46/bbl is far more significant.

Posted by: phx8 at January 12, 2015 7:56 PM
Comment #387253

Obama should have done what Holder did. Holder had an excuse to be there at that time. Obama should have said he’s going on vacation to France.

Are we ready to face what will get Saudi Arabia and it’s myriad of terrorists to leave us alone? Their only concern that I know of is that we have occupied Saudi land and put military bases in their country. Are we ready to pull out of Saudi Arabia? It might just help more that we think!

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 12, 2015 9:38 PM
Comment #387254

Yeah, Leave it to Conservatives to get offended on the behalf of the French, and get it wrong.

As usual, conservatives these days are obsessed with making Obama look bad.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 12, 2015 9:39 PM
Comment #387255

phx8
I really believe you do believe this clap-trap of thought or lack of thought. Glad you are not in any level of any government in this country. You would make a bigger mess than the mayor of Houston. Your comprehension of how the government should run is just off track on a three rail system. To consider that any high ranking official not be in attendance is a slap in the face to most americans and europeans. This was not a mistake. It was done on purpose. Why am I even discussing this with the guy behind the 8 ball from Oregon. Oh I forgot my latest mission and that is to be ascebic. I didn’t do a very good job at a successful mission. Must try harder.

Posted by: tom humes at January 12, 2015 9:40 PM
Comment #387256

Weary Willie-
You really amaze me here. You guys talk about Obama like he’s weak, an appeaser, and then… you say, appease them?

I don’t know how you people get away with being this ambiguous with your positions, this able to cross through the looking glass and completely contradict yourselves.

Look, these radicals haven’t forgiven us the crusades. What Bin Laden resented the most was that it wasn’t his people that the Saudis turned to when Saddam Hussein made his moves on Kuwait.

Removing our bases from the region would also be strategically nuts, especially if you’re wanting to prosecute a war against ISIS.

Additionally, if we appear to give into their demands, do you really think that they won’t demand even more? These aren’t moderate people.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 12, 2015 9:56 PM
Comment #387257

tom humes-
1) The ambassador, asked to comment, said that it was not a big deal, that only folks back home cared about the politics of it. Read: folks like you. This was a rally set up in three days, with a significant risk of terrorist retaliation. Your real problem here is that you just can’t turn off the constant negativity. But negativity doesn’t make good policy.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 12, 2015 9:59 PM
Comment #387259

Stephen Daugherty, conservatives don’t have to make Obama look bad, he does it fine himself.

But as usual, the Obama apologists.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 12, 2015 11:23 PM
Comment #387262

So let me get this straight, Conservatives have their panties in a bunch because Obama, on a moments notice, didn’t attend a march in France! Perhaps instead of being butt hurt conservatives can swoon over Netanyahu instead, after all he attended for political reasons. Seems him and conservatives have something in common.

“Hollande complained in closed talks after that event that he found it unfortunate that Netanyahu had come to Paris to conduct a “two-staged election campaign,””

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/212537/why-benjamin-netanyahu-attended-paris-anti-terror/#ixzz3OfzAXbLn

Posted by: j2t2 at January 13, 2015 12:28 AM
Comment #387271

SD
“folks like you”
Surely you jest
Maybe you are trying to be ascerbic like I try to be but you fail at it. Maybe you are trying to stereotype other people. You usually do a typical job there. Keep up your typical jokes you like to post here along with your comrades. I am still trying one of them to laugh at. But ke it up.

Posted by: tom humes at January 13, 2015 10:03 AM
Comment #387274
The ambassador, asked to comment, said that it was not a big deal, that only folks back home cared about the politics of it.

If what the ambassador says is true, Obama is extraordinarily lucky that the impact of his blunder ended up being benign. However, it still reeks of poor judgement to not send someone of higher profile there. I understand Kerry was in India and security might have been too weak for Obama, but surely Biden should have gone.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 13, 2015 10:40 AM
Comment #387275

The author of this post has obviously not spent much time on the continent of Europe. Ridiculing bicycle riding as a method of transportation for an officer of the law or anything else is typical of an American who has never experienced the life that some Europeans have. When I lived in the remote mountains of Wales there was a gentleman that owned a flock of sheep that grazed some distance from where he lived. I was completely amazed one winter when I witnessed him riding his bicycle with a bale of hay balanced on his handle bars to take to his flock. He did this regularly, not because there was no other way to get the hay to his sheep (there were people that would help him to do that if he had asked) but because that was the method he used and wanted to use and had used for years. This fellow was well into his 80’s so this task was not simple but it taught me a lot about the people I shared that life with. There are some Americans that will never understand that not everyone wants to address a problem with law enforcement by riding in on your humvee with guns blazing and hell bent for leather. Our European counterparts have always used a much more nuanced and subdued approach. I admire them for that. After all for all of our bluster and shows of force it really didn’t help us that much on 9/11. What one person sees as a fatalist approach another sees as a determined and unrelenting approach that will not sacrifice their way of life to deter another persons want to destroy that way of life.

President Obama’s attendance in Paris would have complicated the event. The security necessary to protect him or his representatives would have detracted from the obvious desire to show unity. President Obama showed respect for that by not trying to ride in on a white horse as some type of legendary soothsayer that was there to bestow blessings. Instead he sought to allow the unity of the movement to take control and be apparent. It is not surprising that conservatives would take umbrage with that, they just can’t help themselves when it comes to President Obama.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 10:53 AM
Comment #387277

Oh that word, unity. Great choice for leading up to the Anti-Christ. Be united. Join the throngs of people who are lost in a dying world. And when the world ruler steps forward and says I am here to save you they will look to the one who is not to be their savior. Look for the rocks to cry out and people will go thru that gnashing of teeth and why didn’ some one say something while they perish.

Posted by: tom humes at January 13, 2015 2:24 PM
Comment #387279

As usual, conservatives these days are obsessed with making Obama look bad.
Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 12, 2015 9:39 PM

Mr. Daugherty as a spin-master is second only to phx.

Obama made himself look bad with no help from conservatives. Even liberals can’t understand this common-sense crippled president.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 2:49 PM
Comment #387280

President Obama made the correct decision by not going to France and disrupting the event. He again looks Presidential and has shown a genuine concern for the people of France. Unfortunately he will always look bad to some conservatives in his own country no matter what he does but if that is what they want they get that, it’s a free country.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 3:02 PM
Comment #387281

Interesting that even the White House calls Obama’s decision a “blunder”. Speak needs to get up to speed.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 3:09 PM
Comment #387282

He embarrassed the Nation Speaks. Not only conservatives Speaks, he’s looking bad to some liberals to. I know you love Obama and would kiss his A** if he wanted you to, but this time he was an embarrassment.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 13, 2015 3:10 PM
Comment #387284

He absolutely did the correct thing. I’ll let you dream about a** kissing if that’s where your dementia takes you. The event itself was not even planned prior to Friday evening. 36 hours was not enough time to get security infrastructure in place to provide the protection needed for him or his representatives without disrupting the event. The WH did put out a statement for the benefit of the hair on fire conservative crazies that they knew would be running around with their hair on fire about this. He is after all a gentleman and would like to address all of this country’s citizens concerns, no matter how misplaced their concerns really are. Had he attended the event the Parisian authorities doubt that the turnout would have been as big as it became because some people might have been prevented from getting there due to restrictions allowing for security of the President of the United States. But you all go ahead and criticize him for this, it is not the first bit of criticism and I am sure it will not be the last.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 3:33 PM
Comment #387285

When you two get elected President you can make the call. I support what our President decided to do.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 3:42 PM
Comment #387287

36 hours was enough for 40 other countries Speaks and besides the Israel PM has a bigger target on his back then Obama has and he was there standing 2 people away from the Palistinian leader.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 13, 2015 3:56 PM
Comment #387291

Oh yes Bibi the camera hog. Well he is running for re-election, although I am glad he was there. He may have a big target on his back but he is not the President of the United States. That designation brings a whole lot more steps necessary for protection. Look I know you want to say President Obama was wrong, you always have and you always will (at least it seems that way to me). Myself I take pride in supporting the decisions of our elected leader. You can suit yourself, as I know you will. As I said you can make the decision when you get to be President, until then either support your President or act like a person who doesn’t really support his President and wants to pout about something or other.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 4:55 PM
Comment #387293
As I said you can make the decision when you get to be President, until then either support your President or act like a person who doesn’t really support his President and wants to pout about something or other.

OR, he can be genuinely opposed to a choice that the president made. I’m not sure why this is NEVER considered a possible option to you, Speak? If someone doesn’t completely support the president in every action, he’s a racist or something?

Oh yeah, that’s the mindset of many progressives, I forgot..

Carry on.

Posted by: Rhinehold at January 13, 2015 5:17 PM
Comment #387294

No and you know better so let’s not start with you putting words into my keyboard again, K? It’s a free country as I stated above. You can either support the decision of our elected President or not, that again is your decision. I can be critical of your decision because, well it is a free country.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 5:22 PM
Comment #387296

Speak, those are the only two options you gave. If you had meant to allow a third then why not provide one? In reality, I believe you didn’t mean for there to be one. So when called on it, you get defensive?

If you don’t want people to put words in your keyboard, be more clear/concise. And then if you find someone misunderstanding what you day, correct them. Seems pretty simple to me…

Posted by: Rhinehold at January 13, 2015 5:26 PM
Comment #387298

Please this isn’t our first conversation here on this blog. You know me better, or should by now. I have always maintained that this is a free country and I have always maintained that the adversarial nature of our politics brings disagreement. I like that, and you should know that. Just because I don’t lay out all of the options for you doesn’t mean that I deny your ability to make more options for yourself.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 5:36 PM
Comment #387299

It really very simple Speak. This elected president embarrassed our country by ignoring what the rest of the civilized world was protesting.

Here’s a headline from just four months ago that clearly indicates what IS important to THIS president.

Obama to Send Official Delegation to Michael Brown’s Funeral – Went Golfing During 2-Star General’s Funeral

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 5:36 PM
Comment #387300

He embarrassed you in your estimation. He did not embarrass me. So sending a delegation to a funeral in Ferguson is exactly the same as disrupting an event in a foreign country by putting the security of the President in the way of a peaceful protest and a call for unity? Whatever, I know I will not convince you otherwise and that is your decision, it is a free country but I support our President’s decision to not go to France and to stay here and offer support and wishes of unity that they were expressing. That is all, it really is not that difficult to understand.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 5:42 PM
Comment #387301

Speak, allow me to clear up my position as you have not read what I have written as is usual.

I have never said the president should have gone. I have said that he should have sent some high Washington officials in his place. Do you understand now what I am saying?

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 5:50 PM
Comment #387302

Yes, and that is what the White House stated. I however believe differently and have no problem that he made the decision that he did. Do you understand now what I am saying?

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 5:51 PM
Comment #387303

I do understand that you disagree with the president as his spokesperson is calling that decision a “blunder”.

What does “blunder” mean in this instance? It means that the president feels he embarrassed the nation by not sending a high delegation to join the civilized world in denouncing terrorism.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 5:56 PM
Comment #387304

When you two get elected President you can make the call. I support what our President decided to do.
Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 3:42 PM

Obviously, I made a better decision than the president as he called his decision a “blunder”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 13, 2015 6:09 PM
Comment #387305

Obama’s visit to the French Embassy in Washington to personally write a note of condolence was considered an exceptional expression of support at the time.

As the White House conceded, it dropped the ball subsequently when it did not send a higher representative to participate in the march of unity. Biden would have been appropriate.

A visit and participation by Obama would have been out of the question due to security concerns. He would have presented the target of a lifetime for terrorists in a hastily prepared march. The possibility of suicide bomber presented a nightmare scenario for the Secret Service.

In any case, the White House has addressed the blunder forthrightly. It made a mistake and has admitted such.

Posted by: Rich at January 13, 2015 6:58 PM
Comment #387307
President Obama made the correct decision by not going to France and disrupting the event. He again looks Presidential and has shown a genuine concern for the people of France. Unfortunately he will always look bad to some conservatives in his own country no matter what he does but if that is what they want they get that, it’s a free country.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 13, 2015 3:02 PM

This doesn’t make sense; Speak4all is defending Obama’s insult to Europe, claiming it is just another conservative attack, and yet Obama’s insult is all over the news…US and European. I didn’t know there were so many conservatives in Europe.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 13, 2015 7:44 PM
Comment #387308

Then the Iranian born Valerie Jarrett had her $50 worth. She doesn’t let the president do anything without her approval.

Posted by: tom humes at January 13, 2015 7:48 PM
Comment #387309

Just to be clear Tom, Valerie Jarrett was born to US parents who were living in Iran at the time of her birth. Her father, a physician, was working on a project to develop medical services for Iranians at a time when US-Iranian relationships were excellent.

Posted by: Rich at January 13, 2015 11:41 PM
Comment #387327

If we listen to the Obama administration, the US-Iranian relationship is excellent today. Along with the Cuban, Russian, and North Korean relationships.

Valerie Jarrett is evil and was never elected to run the country. I figure she’s porking Obama.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 14, 2015 8:17 AM
Comment #387339

Watchblog Editor & Owner
When are you going to ban some of these people?

Posted by: phx8 at January 14, 2015 3:43 PM
Comment #387353

Starting with phx8 for being silly.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 14, 2015 8:42 PM
Comment #387359

Limiting free speech, eh phx8?

Watch out Sam Jones, phx8 is trying to get your literary head sawed off!

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 14, 2015 10:52 PM
Comment #387365

Kicking people from a private web site is not limiting free speech, Weary… I suspect you know that and are being silly, but I just want to make sure everyone is aware because some people do get confused about rights and such…

Posted by: Rhinehold at January 15, 2015 12:20 AM
Comment #387366

I know, but I also know that the current Editor is much more fair with the monitoring of this site. I doubt the current editor will submit to the pleas of another contributer because they are offended by what was said, in a joking manner, by the way.

phx8 is only showing his true colors.

Queue jane doe.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2015 12:55 AM
Comment #387368

Just to re-state what has already been said, this is a private site, and participation is at the discretion of the owner and editors.

Posted by: phx8 at January 15, 2015 1:31 AM
Comment #387369

..and I’ll bet they like a joke every now and then, just like most everyone else.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2015 3:02 AM
Comment #387372

Republicans just really don’t have anything more to do these days than just be critical of and petty towards everybody else.

Guess what folks? If you don’t learn leadership, compromise, statesmanship, and all that jazz while you don’t have responsibility, you’re not going to have it when you finally get that responsibility.

Republicans haven’t trained themselves to be responsive to the reality of today’s problems. They’re stuck on the political optics at all times. That’s why the President’s march matters so damn much to them: they can manipulate optics anyway they want to. But what does it mean in the grand scheme of things? Nothing. Six months from now, it’s going to matter more what Obama did behind the scenes, what he and the leaders of France decide behind close doors.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at January 15, 2015 8:03 AM
Comment #387373

This last comment cannot possibly be Stephen Daugherty, the comment is less than 10k words.

Since the days of the late DRR, we have seen the left’s attempt to shut up critics by having them banned from WB.

Posted by: George at January 15, 2015 8:25 AM
Comment #387376

Some conservative commenters here do not understand the difference between telling a joke and being a joke. The methods that Sam Jones, Weary Willie, Tom Humes, George and several others use, convince us that they do not understand this subtle difference. By using their crude and sometimes offensive statements, they like to think that the statements are funny, they completely miss the fact that those very statements make them the joke. We can only sit in silent ridicule of their inept and unethical statements, childish and stupid comes to mind as a description. But sometimes we can try to let them know how silly they appear, especially to someone who is as familiar with their stupidity as some of us have become to understand. But there are others perhaps not so understanding and familiar with their stupidity that must see this for what it is and take them for what they are.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 15, 2015 10:02 AM
Comment #387377

You have no room to talk Speaks. Your comments have been somewhat crude and offensive also along with other Liberal/progressives on this blog. So you people have no room to talk.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 10:46 AM
Comment #387378

I disagree. You on the other hand have not added much to any discussion that I have observed other than your general disagreement with our President and anyone commenting with progressive or democratic tendencies. Perhaps you could point our where my comments have been crude and offensive. If not just “eat your peas”.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 15, 2015 11:12 AM
Comment #387379

Typical SD and Speaks4nobody comments,liberals smart, everyone else stupid.

Posted by: George at January 15, 2015 11:33 AM
Comment #387380

Comment #387378 for one Speaks and if I go through the archives I’m sure to find many,many more.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 11:38 AM
Comment #387381

That comment was in response to an earlier comment made by Sam Jones about “porking” and a follow up one made by Weary Willie saying it was a joke. Both were offensive and crude and there was nothing in my comment that was offensive and crude other that pointing out how stupid their comments seemed. You seem to be unable to determine the difference between disagreeing with and and being crude and offensive. I am not surprised as you seem to be unable to differentiate a lot that is posted and commented on here.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 15, 2015 11:43 AM
Comment #387382

So your comments are not crude and offensive Speaks? You comment totally on the OP? You add to the discussion with intelligence? NOT!!!! You won’t give facts and refuse to give facts, so you have no room to talk.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 11:49 AM
Comment #387384

Lieberals must need healthcare because their thin, translucent skin is damaged so easily.

Gollum comes to mind.

Come to me, my precious government!

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2015 1:56 PM
Comment #387389

Mr. Daugherty writes; “Guess what folks? If you don’t learn leadership, compromise, statesmanship, and all that jazz while you don’t have responsibility, you’re not going to have it when you finally get that responsibility.”

Thanks, we have been saying that for years about obama.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 15, 2015 2:36 PM
Comment #387392

To add to the frustration of you know who you are.
Let’s try a bit of sexism.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Those of you on the southpaw side of the mound, just can’t get past the elitism that comes thru from you guys. The rules are good to be followed by the right side of the hill, but the rules must be loosely enforced by those that want to follow them that way.

Posted by: tom humes at January 15, 2015 3:10 PM
Comment #387393

Royal, everything Stephen Daugherty and Speaks4all says, can so easily be used on themselves and their party.

To whomever was offended at the thought of Obama porking Valerie Jarett…it was a joke. HOWEVER, Obama does seem to have some marital problems and let’s face it, Valerie Jarett is not a kept woman because of her intelligence. Even liberals have called for Obama to get rid of her. So the logical conclusion is…”porking”

Speaks, you are as liberal as they come, and you certainly don’t have a problem with two problem with Obama and Jarett. Isn’t it a natural liberal activity. The left has been “porking” the American people for a long time. And now, all of a sudden, you have a problem with “Porking”?

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 15, 2015 3:19 PM
Comment #387394

Sorry, the second paragraph should have read:

“Speaks, you are as liberal as they come, and you certainly don’t have a problem with two men porking each other, but you have a problem with Obama and Jarett. Isn’t it a natural liberal activity. The left has been “porking” the American people for a long time. And now, all of a sudden, you have a problem with “Porking”?

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 15, 2015 3:28 PM
Comment #387398
…it was a joke

I thought you came here looking for meaningful discussion? If you just want to make friends and joke around, that is your prerogative, but don’t be surprised when people lose their respect for what you write.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 15, 2015 3:46 PM
Comment #387400

“…but don’t be surprised when people lose their respect for what you write.”

Assuming they had any to lose to begin with…

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at January 15, 2015 4:03 PM
Comment #387402

Tis’ the season to be jolly!

Since we don’t get anywhere with “meaningful” discussion, why not a little levity?

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2015 4:10 PM
Comment #387403

Warren Porter, 99% of what is written on WB by the left is a joke. When I read some of the things written by Daugherty, phx8, Rocky Marks, Speaks4all, etc.; I have to set back and laugh and think to myself, “there are actually people in this country who think this way”. So, yes it was a joke, just like most of the propaganda the left comes up with…get over it!!!

The left acts so indignant and insulted by comments concerning Obama and Jarett; but had absolutely no problem with the comments made about Palin or other conservative women and blacks. You should be ashamed of yourself for even getting into the fray. To act insulted about what is said about Obama and then make even worse statements about conservative women and blacks is beneath you.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 15, 2015 4:15 PM
Comment #387407

With the exception of Rocky and Warren, I would just like to thank all of you for proving my point. You did better than I ever could. Just remember that we are laughing at you and not with you. Try to discover the difference.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

“Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.”
― George Carlin

Posted by: Speak4all at January 15, 2015 5:13 PM
Comment #387409

Sam,

“The left acts so indignant and insulted by comments concerning Obama and Jarett; but had absolutely no problem with the comments made about Palin or other conservative women and blacks.”

Now this might actually be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

You people out there on the distant right truly have no sense of irony.
The words liberal, and/or left have been used alternatively as an epithet or a punchline for decades, and yet you continue blithely on as if nothing has ever happened, whining about the poor, put upon, Ms Palin.

Really?

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at January 15, 2015 5:19 PM
Comment #387411
99% of what is written on WB by the left is a joke. When I read some of the things written by Daugherty, phx8, Rocky Marks, Speaks4all, etc.; I have to set back and laugh and think to myself, “there are actually people in this country who think this way”. So, yes it was a joke, just like most of the propaganda the left comes up with…get over it!!!

You may consider the apologisms to be false, but they are not intended as jokes. I am not here to joke around; if you are offended by what other Leftist contributors write, then I suggest you ignore them. Taking wise cracks and joking around is not the route to serious discussion. I am not offended by your jokes, but they do prevent me from taking you seriously. Royal Flush used to be an insightful contributor here many years ago, but in past couple of years he has mostly spent his time joking around rather than writing a serious defense of his ideology. I wouldn’t want you to fall into the same trap.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 15, 2015 5:22 PM
Comment #387416

Warren, out of all the leftist bloggers I give you high marks, the rest wouldn’t make it past whale crap except on occasion Stephen. I know I’m not one of the most intelligent writers but reading some of the stupid, ignorant comments by some on the left and right it’s no wonder intelligent debate is almost non existent.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 5:46 PM
Comment #387417

Rich KAPitan,

If you think all the Leftist contributors are idiots that is fine by me, but that still doesn’t mean anyone should shed his or her obligation to treat a fellow human with decency and respect. Granted, we are all human and occasionally fall short, but cordiality needs to be the goal. Nonetheless, it is a challenge to spend the time to craft a reasoned response if the other side is just going to quip with a cheap joke.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 15, 2015 6:08 PM
Comment #387418

Warren, I know both sides get ridiculous with the crude comments. Those on the right went through the BS during the Bush years now the left is catching it in the Obama years. I expect the right will catch hell these last 2 years of the O administration seeing how they control congress. Stand by for some down right nastiness.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 6:22 PM
Comment #387422

What a sad discussion!

I would like to say more but I am at a lose for words to express my dismay at the vulgarity of some of these comments.

Warren, well said.

Rich K., perhaps you are correct about the swing of the political pendulum but I hope that we can all remain civil and respectful of contrary or alternative opinions.

Posted by: Rich at January 15, 2015 7:21 PM
Comment #387424

Warren writes: “Royal Flush used to be an insightful contributor here many years ago, but in past couple of years he has mostly spent his time joking around rather than writing a serious defense of his ideology.”

In some ways you are correct Warren. At one time I believed that sharing facts and discounting hyperbole mattered to both sides on WB. I sadly discovered that neither side wished to learn…only disseminate their own personal beliefs.

Are there any on WB who honestly believe they can change anyone’s mind when it comes to politics, social issues, or religion?

I used to spend hours researching my positions and presenting facts in support of them. After much work, I would read comments from the opposition skewering the messenger rather than discussing the meat.

There is not a single contributor to WB who ever changes his/her mind and admits to it. When Remer was here we exchanged many ideas and occasionally I agreed with him and he with me. That no longer happens.

Now I come to WB for mostly for laughs. I have blunted my criticism of individuals somewhat and mostly now deride the comments for their hyperbole and weird ideas about our Democratic Republic.

It is incomprehensible to hear the left defend as good our nearly $20 Trillion national debt, our nearly bankrupt social programs, a national health care scheme that merely changes who pays and who gets.

The same mentality is on display when it comes to man-made global warming and the idea that by spending enough money and instituting enough regulations we can control climate without bankrupting the nation.

We have become a nation of “nit-pickers”. Our media writes what sells rather than what is true and should be publicized. No one trusts anyone, and for good reason. The politicians lie to get elected and then sell their office to the highest bidder.

Some on WB brag about how well the country is doing. Really? Millions are in poverty, millions depend upon hand-outs for their subsistence, millions want to work and there is none for them. We are told we need more uneducated immigrants to do jobs Americans won’t do. Really? If true, is it because they don’t have to work to survive?

We find a world that is in flames with a great holocaust likely coming if free nations do not stop the insanity of international terrorism.

Warren, if you believe anyone on WB gives a damn about what is really happening I have a newsflash for you…they don’t care and neither do you.

Posted by: Royal Flush at January 15, 2015 7:52 PM
Comment #387425

Well said Royal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 15, 2015 7:59 PM
Comment #387426

I’ve been a part of WatchBlog for over a decade. It’s part of me. I would be miserable if I was treated the way David R. Remer treated me and others when he disagreed with me. I came to WatchBlog when I was banned as much as I did when I was able to comment.

I enjoy WatchBlog because the clutter of Disqus and other blogs are far less civilized than here. Those blogs get in the gutter immediately and stay there.

WatchBlog also provides an outlet I cannot find in my real life. People refuse to talk politics or religion face to face. Many of the snarky comments that appear on WatchBlog are amplified in real life and it doesn’t end up pretty. People are wise to not discuss politics face to face in the atmosphere we are currently in.

I’d hate to see WatchBlog devolve into a replica of other blogs, and I wish I could hear comments begin with

You could be right, and here’s how I think we can find a middle ground.

more often.

If I didn’t think there was hope of that I wouldn’t be here.

Posted by: Weary Willie at January 15, 2015 8:22 PM
Comment #387438

“You could be right, and here’s how I think we can find a middle ground.”

One suggestion might be to give up your recent attempts at humor. It’s not working. I would advise you not to give up your day job.

It may seem surprising to you but I like my conservative neighbors a lot and respect them. I also like my liberal neighbors a lot and respect them too. I first came here to WB to attempt to see the discourse of a political nature play out. Most of the time it was civil and sometimes informative. I began commenting because the discourse seem to veer away from that at that time and took a more decided turn to polarization and I wanted to try to understand why. This polarization is becoming prevalent across our society, country and world. I recall Bob Dylan speaking about this way back in the 60’s so it is nothing new.

I will continue to frequent this blog and hope to see less polarization here and elsewhere but I don’t hold out much hope since this has been happening for quite some time now. But that doesn’t mean that I can’t believe that some day it may not manifest in the same way it does today.

Thanks for asking for making the point about middle ground, let’s hope we can find some.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 16, 2015 9:51 AM
Comment #387439

That last sentence in the previous comment should have read, Thanks for making the point about middle ground, let’s hope we can find some.

Something else I thought about after the comment is that I have much more interaction with my conservative neighbors than I do with my liberal neighbors but that is only due to proximity, we like to help watch each others houses. My conservative neighbors are next door and across the street. My liberal neighbors are several houses distant from where I live. I don’t talk politics with any of them and I’m sure that’s why we don’t have disagreements even though they have yard signs supporting conservative candidates and mine are for liberal candidates.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 16, 2015 10:24 AM
Comment #387441

Exactly Speaks, Politics and Religion two of the worst things to discuss.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 16, 2015 11:09 AM
Comment #387442

Yes KAP yet we seem determined to discuss these things (thank goodness not religion as much), after all this is a blog meant for political discussion.

I hope to make a more concerted effort to not let my political persuasion here manifest as an insult as much as they have in the past. This is not easy as my defensiveness began at a very early age, I had liberal tendencies and beliefs before I made it to 10 years old. Not sure how or why I just know that I did.

Perhaps I will use Warren’s advice and just try ignoring more, but again that never worked a long time ago when I began this journey. Old dog, new tricks? Wish me luck?

Posted by: Speak4all at January 16, 2015 11:32 AM
Comment #387444

I know what you mean Speaks defensiveness is a trait in all of us..

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at January 16, 2015 12:44 PM
Comment #387449

Rocky Marks, it’s not about Sarah Palin, it’s about the pot calling the kettle black. The left goes nuts when something derogatory is said about Obama, yet your side has had no problem with personal attacks on conservative women and blacks.

I read back in the archives and found where phx8 in September 2008 was attacking Sarah Palin and her handicapped son. Why would phx8 attack the conservative woman through her handicapped son? What about the personal attacks, by the left, on Clarence Thomas, when he was a candidate for the SCOTUS? He is a SC Justice, yet he was spoken of by the left in the most evil derogatory ways. Yet when Bill Clinton was actually caught having sex with an intern in the Oval Office…it was just Bill being Bill. It was just sex…and everyone does it. The whole attitude of the left is double standards. And rather than face the facts, you and Speaks4all just blow it off as something terrible from the right. Sorry, that dog won’t hunt.

You may consider the apologisms to be false, but they are not intended as jokes. I am not here to joke around; if you are offended by what other Leftist contributors write, then I suggest you ignore them. Taking wise cracks and joking around is not the route to serious discussion. I am not offended by your jokes, but they do prevent me from taking you seriously. Royal Flush used to be an insightful contributor here many years ago, but in past couple of years he has mostly spent his time joking around rather than writing a serious defense of his ideology. I wouldn’t want you to fall into the same trap.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 15, 2015 5:22 PM

Warren Porter, you say you not here to joke around and that you are here to seriously discuss? I have already had Stephen Daugherty tell me, even if he disagreed with Obama and the Democratic Party, he would never admit to it on WB. Why would he say that, if the goal was to seriously discuss? Why would you continue to be upset over what I said about Obama and Jarett, and yet fail to admit the vulgar ways the left (even on WB) has spoken of conservative women and blacks?

Why should Royal Flush, or myself, take the left seriously? Has the left ever been persuaded of the evil of their ways by anyone from the right? Has a liberal on WB ever conceded that the left was wrong? I have personally read many times of conservatives who admitted they dislike the way Bush and the Republicans dis and do things. The answer I get from the left is that even if Obama did something wrong, your side would never admit it. So really, I don’t care if you take me seriously or not. And I consider most of what is said on WB as humorous , to say the least.

When the left (Democrats) say, “let us reason together”, it simply means “do it my way”. There is no reasoning with the left. You are apologist for Obama.

Posted by: Sam Jones at January 16, 2015 2:29 PM
Comment #387542

Sam,

My apologies for missing your comment until now.

I have already had Stephen Daugherty tell me, even if he disagreed with Obama and the Democratic Party, he would never admit to it on WB. Why would he say that, if the goal was to seriously discuss

I believe you have confused what I stated was my goal with what you feel is the goal.
I speak for myself and myself alone. Stephen speaks for Stephen. My impression is that Stephen sees himself as an advocate, a propagandist perhaps. If his apologies are not your cup of tea then I recommend that you stop drinking the tea.

Why would you continue to be upset over what I said about Obama and Jarett
I never expressed that I was upset. I am merely disappointed that you have nothing better to do with your time. As I said above, that disappointment causes me to lose respect for what you write.
Why should Royal Flush, or myself, take the left seriously?
I try my best to always take you and your fellow conservatives seriously. If you wish to mirror that, then we can perhaps learn from each other. If that is too much trouble for you, then that is your prerogative. Ultimately, it depends on why you choose to come here. I agree that you aren’t going to get any serious discussions with Speaks4all or Stephen. The former is here for jokes and the latter is here to spin his propaganda and occasionally whine about his life’s misery. However, there are many knowledgeable people here (such as Rich, Rocky and myself) that you can also talk with seriously.
Has the left ever been persuaded of the evil of their ways by anyone from the right?
That’s a bit of a loaded question there. However, I can tell you that my own ideology has been molded greatly by what I have read here. When I first visited this site 10 years ago I was still in HS and I had a lot of wrongheaded Leftist ideas, but now I am different. Jack likes to claim that I am a proto-conservative, but I will discover what the future brings when it comes.
I have personally read many times of conservatives who admitted they dislike the way Bush and the Republicans dis and do things.
I’ve never had qualms criticizing Obama or other Democrats if I feel like they have screwed up. I even freely criticize tenets of the Democratic Party on matters such as the solvency of the SS trust fund. However, disliking a particular individual or a particular party is not very hard. Being able to examine and criticize one’s own ideology is quite another. For all the condemnations of Bush that you have seen, not one of them blames Bush’s conservatism. This is important to note and it is essential to the asymmetry that you witness. Posted by: Warren Porter at January 21, 2015 1:31 PM
Comment #387543

So I am merely here for jokes Warren? Why don’t you let me decide what I am here for and you decide what you are here for. You now are taking a page from others on this blog by deeming yourself as better than someone else, that could be something you learned from Jack. I am uncertain that you have learned anything here in the last 10 years other than that. I believe that you have taken yourself much to seriously as of late and probably need to spend a moment or two in self evaluation and perhaps add a dash of humble pie. By the way Jack left this blog a long time ago and was replaced by Christine.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 21, 2015 3:11 PM
Comment #387547

You contributions here are not of the same variety as mine. There’s nothing wrong with making jokes. Just because I try to be serious more often than not doesn’t make me better, it only makes me different.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 21, 2015 6:18 PM
Comment #387559

I agree. In your efforts to engage Sam Jones you had to include the following:

“I agree that you aren’t going to get any serious discussions with Speaks4all or Stephen. The former is here for jokes and the latter is here to spin his propaganda and occasionally whine about his life’s misery.”

By attempting to agree with his assessment of liberals you had to denigrate and insult another person’s comments. That is not like you or any previous comments that you have made that I am aware of. I applaud your efforts to engage others in the variety of comments that you use however you should remember to try to not be pulled into their interpretations of others that devalues your point. Something about lying down with dogs can bring an onset of flea infestation might apply.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 22, 2015 9:49 AM
Comment #387588

It is my honest assessment that you aren’t here for serious in depth discussions. If I were a conservative, I would be ignoring 90% of the comments you make. I’m not here to sugarcoat anything because we agree ideologically.

The same goes for Stephen. I definitely empathize with him and his circumstances and I quickly defend him against unfair accusations of socialism etc. However, I am not going to lie and say that his long meandering expositions are well-written when they are not. I am also disturbed by his inability to ever criticize the President even when he occasionally screws up like all humans do.

Perhaps, I have lain down with dogs and acquired their fleas. However, I will say that I was really happy when SJ first arrived here. He and I had some very good serious discussions for a while despite our disagreements. A couple of months later, and he is very different. He has changed just like Royal Flush, which is quite unfortunate.

Posted by: Warren Porter at January 24, 2015 8:09 PM
Comment #387608

This may surprise you Warren but your estimation of my comments means absolutely nothing to me. Your endeavors to engage others on this blog should not preclude your estimation of my or any others comments on this blog. Your point to include others in the discussion you seek could be accomplished without attempting to give a critique of someone’s comments. But you continue to do that. I can only surmise that the intention of your comment rather than the noble gestures that you expound is to garner some support from someone you believe will agree with your estimations or you feel a genuine need to cause an affront to my comments.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 26, 2015 10:05 AM
Comment #387609

If it is the former, good luck. If it is the latter, get over it.

Posted by: Speak4all at January 26, 2015 12:18 PM
Post a comment