Ferguson & the rule of law. Protestors should stay home.

Authorities in Missouri are girding for potential violence from protestors around the shooting of a young black man, Michael Brown. At this writing, I do not know whether a Grand Jury empowered to judge the evidence will indict the cop who shot him or not and the outcome doesn’t matter to me. I believe in the rule of law. If the cop did something wrong, he should be punished. If he acted reasonably he should suffer nothing more.

Let's stipulate the Michael Brown did not deserve to die, even if he acted stupidly in challenging the cop. Let's stipulate too that the cop is not a murderer, even if he acted stupidly. He did not go out that day intending to kill or seriously injure a man he had not met. It is likely that there are two people involved who made mistakes. It is a tragedy for both, rather more for Brown, who is dead, but Wilson's life will also never be the same.

Now enter the protestors. We the usual couple of clowns, Sharpton and Jackson, show up. Even worse, Eric Holder weighed in. He is supposed to be impartial enforcer of the rule of law, but he put his finger on the scale and no good came of it.

Now we have lots of people approaching hysteria about the fact that the cop might not be indicted. They are like the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland who demands a punishment first and a verdict after.

Americans have the right to protest, but protests are not always good. These protests are not good. They have clouded the issue and created more hate.

The fact is that lots of young men are murdered every year. The protestors would be justified in protesting that. But few of them are killed by cops. In fact, the cops are the line of defense for young black men murdered in numbers way out of proportion by other young black men.

In other words, the protestors have identified a real issue but chosen the wrong culprit. Murder by other young black men is the leading cause of death for black men ages 15-35. In fact, by making members of the black community more suspicious of the police, the protestors are likely contributing to the deaths of young black men, since the police will be less able to investigate or prevent violent crimes committed against and by young black men.

To the protestors in Ferguson I would say stay home and do something useful. Your protests are not doing any good and may do harm.

Posted by Christine & John at November 17, 2014 6:11 PM
Comments
Comment #385612

I have never posted a comment in support of the Ferguson protesters and for good reason. Unlike the Trayvon Martin case, Michael Brown threatened the life of Darren Wilson and Wilson was within his rights to respond appropriately.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 7:10 PM
Comment #385615

With law enforcement at the federal level warning of violence in this community with the Grand Jury ruling it is incumbent for responsible federal administration officials to do all they can to publicly denounce any public disorder and mayhem.

I call upon both the president and the attorney general to get out in front of this possible powder keg and to speak strongly for peace and quiet.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 17, 2014 7:28 PM
Comment #385619

Royal

Eric Holder might be active, but he will be doing the wrong thing.

Posted by: C&J at November 17, 2014 8:00 PM
Comment #385620

These riots have nothing to do with protests; they have everything to do with looting and stealing.

Since when are American held hostage by criminals?

I’m glad to hear the voice of a single liberal crying in the wilderness that he does not support these protest. Would he also be willing to condemn this administration for their part in stirring up the conflict; for using the incident to create race problems. Or dare not we go that far???

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 8:10 PM
Comment #385621

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/opinion/in-ferguson-black-town-white-power.html?_r=0

quote: “”Ferguson’s demographics have shifted rapidly: in 1990, it was 74 percent white and 25 percent black; in 2000, 52 percent black and 45 percent white; by 2010, 67 percent black and 29 percent white.”“

Tensions have been building in this city for years and years. Majority black while the power is held by mostly white. Police force has some 50 whites and 3 blacks.

The article alludes that it is not a black and white issue but green. I totally agree. Why have the blacks not voted some folks of color into the power structure? Are they prevented from being politically active? Are they just lazy and want some one else to do the heavy lifting?

A quarter of city revenue comes from court fines, speeding tickets and so on - - - what an invitation for the very situation they have created.


But, it’s beyond the city at this point. Extremists will milk the situation for all it’s worth. Could be a couple of years to take the heat out of it, IMO.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 17, 2014 8:12 PM
Comment #385622

Another possible is that the blacks may be afraid of a wave of white flight if blacks take over the power structure.

Posted by: roy ellis at November 17, 2014 8:14 PM
Comment #385623

I think the white flight has already happened.

Posted by: George at November 17, 2014 8:21 PM
Comment #385624

Sam

We no longer call them “looters” or “thieves.” They prefer to be called “alternative shoppers.”

Posted by: C&J at November 17, 2014 8:37 PM
Comment #385626

It’s a tough call from the information that has been thus far been released. Brown is clearly a thug and a huge physically intimidating “kid.” There is little dispute that he was involved in an physical altercation with the officer, probably attacking the officer, resulting in the discharge of the officer’s gun wounding him. Whether the officer was subsequently justified in killing Brown turns on what happened after the first fusillade of bullets fired while Brown was running away. Did Brown turn and clearly signify surrender or did Brown turn and indicate that he was going to attack the officer?

I would suggest that people hold their opinion until more information is available about the circumstances of the final killing fusillade. Was it reasonable for the officer to believe that Brown was threatening his life? It all happened very quickly. I think that if there is any ambiguity, the officer will walk.

What I find unfortunate is that many have already made up their minds without hearing all the evidence. This is particularly true of the Brown supporters who seem to believe that the police simply executed a black “kid.” The legion of Brown lawyers shaping the eyewitness accounts on television is repulsive. If there was evidence that the police and prosecutors were attempting to sweep the killing under the rug, I would understand the outrage. But, from what I have read, the police and prosecutors have been have been sensitive for the need of a thorough investigation from the very beginning of the incident.

Let’s wait for the final grand jury report and the evidence.


Posted by: Rich at November 17, 2014 9:19 PM
Comment #385628

Rich

I agree that we should wait for the Grand Jury and trust in the rule of law. That is what annoys me with those protestors. They are acting like clowns but in the dangerous way. I am particularly annoyed at Eric Holder, who is pernicious. I am also very disappointed in President Obama for “consulting” with the likes of Sharpton. I hope Holder will redeem himself, but I doubt it.

Let’s not pretend the protestors are good people. They are exercising their rights the way a drunk might exercise his “right” to pee on a the floor in a public restroom. They don’t deserve our respect. I dislike them.

Posted by: C&J at November 17, 2014 9:28 PM
Comment #385629


Facts be damned. Let the riots begin. They appear to be inevitable. Even if the cop is brought to trial the focus will shift from the grand jury decision to the verdict of that trial and the people of Furguson will live in fear and be intimidated for another year or two.

There has been no clear issue rising up as their was with the jump to conclusions in the Travon Martin case. That case has an anti-stand your ground law movement attached to it. It was also made out to be a racist instance, i.e. the white-hispanic characterization. Mostly it was the stand your ground law being attacked and Travon Martin was the catylist.

This sounds more like a get-even situation. Racial differenced with white government/black population is coming out. This instance will probably end up like the Rodney King incident.

Posted by: Weary Willie at November 17, 2014 9:43 PM
Comment #385630

My understanding is, the police are not allowed to wear their riot gear when the GJ results come out. If I was a cop in Ferguson, I would pack my bags and move my family and get a job in another city. I would leave the politically correct local Politian’s to stand by and watch the protesters burn Ferguson to the ground. If I was a property owner in Ferguson, I would do exactly what the Koreans did at their store during the King riots in LA. I watched them cut loose with semi-auto weapons, the blacks ran, and NOTHING ever came of it. What gives these people the right to steal someone else’s property.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 10:02 PM
Comment #385631
What gives these people the right to steal someone else’s property.

Nothing does. Which is why nobody here defends those thugs.

My understanding is, the police are not allowed to wear their riot gear when the GJ results come out.
My advice is to leave the decision-making to the experts instead of trying to armchair quarterback from miles away. It’s possible that an overly militarized police presence could incite a riot where none existed in the first place. Law enforcement there’s is playing a dangerous game. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 10:23 PM
Comment #385632

Warren Porter, how would you like to be the cop standing in front of the protesters, without your gear? It’s not law enforcement that’s playing the dangerous game.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 10:39 PM
Comment #385641
how would you like to be the cop standing in front of the protesters, without your gear? It’s not law enforcement that’s playing the dangerous game.

So Sam Jones knows all when it comes to law enforcement tactics. Thanks for letting me know. Those silly cops in Missouri don’t know what they are doing because they haven’t consulted with your supreme intelligence.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 18, 2014 7:18 AM
Comment #385646

Warren, you have no idea who I am, what I have done, or what I do for a living. Some of us out here in flyover country actually have occupations other than being a student. I’m not in a habit of giving advice on a subject I do not know or understand.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 18, 2014 10:12 AM
Comment #385650

Sounds like the Grand Jury made their decision a long time ago and they are taking the time to slowly leak the decision in order to calm the storm.

Posted by: George in SC at November 18, 2014 10:34 AM
Comment #385656
you have no idea who I am, what I have done, or what I do for a living

If you are a riot-control expert, then put your cards on the table and say so. But if you going to hide yourself in the robes of anonymity, then your “expertise” comes across as haughty.

Sounds like the Grand Jury made their decision a long time ago and they are taking the time to slowly leak the decision in order to calm the storm.

If so, it sounds like there’s at least somebody who understands how to maintain the peace. We are very fortunate Sam Jones isn’t in charge down there.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 18, 2014 11:57 AM
Comment #385662

Warren Porter, it has already been determined, by the expertise of Daugherty, in C&J’s cartoon, that it is the left who hides behind “anonymity” and not conservatives. Regarding telling about my “expertise”; I already said I don’t give advise on something I do not know. I also told Daugherty, I don’t care about his health, his family, or his IQ. I am simply on here to discuss. I will tell nothing abut myself and I don’t care for any of you to know anything about me. I’m not looking for friends. I’m looking for intelligent conversation based on logic and not emotion. Sad to say, most liberals on this site are very emotional.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 18, 2014 1:23 PM
Comment #385670

C&J,
Thank you.

Posted by: phx8 at November 18, 2014 4:33 PM
Comment #385672

SJ, you only come here to discuss but then you try to give advise (advice). Sure you just come here to discuss, right. Warren would seem to have a very adept mentor already and did not solicit your advice because he doesn’t need it. And then you play the emotion card, I am clutching my pearls and headed to the fainting couch. If we wanted to hear Rush Limbaugh’s take on politics we would just turn on the radio which I do on occasions but only so when he starts into one of his spittle spewing, hair on fire rants I can reach over turn it off and say “STFU you boil on the ass of humanity”.

Warren, by the way a person who counts on good luck spends his paycheck trying to hit the jackpot. A person who appreciates good luck is happy when they walk by a slot machine and stick a dollar in and win the jackpot. My intimation that you don’t strike me as the kind of person that “counts” on good luck was meant to make that distinction.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2014 4:48 PM
Comment #385679

Sam

Welcome. Glad you joined the discussions and love your passion.

“most liberals on this site are very emotional.”

Liberalism is based on emotion, my friend. You will have better luck getting “intelligent conversation based on logic” by confronting liberalism itself, rather than those who promote it.

Posted by: kctim at November 18, 2014 5:21 PM
Comment #385681

I would like to get back to ‘Andy and Mayberry’ style of policing. What has happened to society to require swat teams, heavy equipment and so in providing security/protection?

Enforcement, or the lack of it. IMO, people should not fear the police but should have great respect for the badge. There seems to be little respect for the law and this has been allowed to happen due to lax enforcement.

THis trend of lax enforcement is prevalent in society, IMO. Starts with young school age kids being coddled by the law right thru to prisons that are little more than a stay at an economy motel. The worst that can happen to a murderer is a long stay at a cheap motel.

Would some civics lessons and busting rocks for a couple of years help some folks develop respect for people.

I doubt it. Now that I think on it, we lost ‘Mayberry’ thru the lack of good parenting to include a religious upbringing. People were bred to respect other people right from the cradle. Doubt if rigid enforcement can return us to Mayberry. Until then - - -

Smack a cop in the head and expect to get shot - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at November 18, 2014 5:58 PM
Comment #385684

Thanks kctim; I’m guessing Kansas City Tim. I like to figure out the names. Don’t really know how long I will be able to take the foolishness of the left.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 18, 2014 6:22 PM
Comment #385685
it has already been determined, by the expertise of Daugherty, in C&J’s cartoon, that it is the left who hides behind “anonymity” and not conservatives.

Yet we have this contradictory statement:

I will tell nothing abut myself and I don’t care for any of you to know anything about me.

Please stop this charade. It contradicts your desire for an “intelligent conversation based on logic”. I frankly don’t care if you want to be anonymous or not, but don’t pretend to be something that you are not.

I used to comment under the pseudonym “Warped Reality”. A few years ago, I made a decision to begin using my real name because I wanted to share my expertise in atmospheric science to help explain anthropogenic climate change to some conservatives who had forgotten their elementary physics. I no longer shy from letting people know that I have a lot of training in that topic. I graduated in 2013 with a BS with a double major in atmospheric science as well as applied mathematics & statistics; I also minored in chemistry and physics. I also worked in the private sector for a year where I advised clients in the insurance industry how to manage their risks regarding climate change. I don’t care for you to share as I have done. Just realize that “trust me” isn’t going to cut it when I’ve only been conversing with you for such a brief time.

Warren, by the way a person who counts on good luck spends his paycheck trying to hit the jackpot. A person who appreciates good luck is happy when they walk by a slot machine and stick a dollar in and win the jackpot. My intimation that you don’t strike me as the kind of person that “counts” on good luck was meant to make that distinction.
S4A, Thank you for the clarification. I no longer dispute your observation.

kctim,
Libertarianism is the only ideology devoid of emotion. Nonetheless, I second your advice to Sam. Talking about your perceptions of people you’ve never met apart from this forum is a recipe for emotionalism. I used to get stuck in stupid arguments with a particular conservative who was so insecure about himself that he liked to brag about his financial success and deride people like me who actually work for a living. Nowadays, I’ve learned not to engage with people like that. I feel much better about myself and my participation when I stick to debating the issues and not the people.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 18, 2014 6:30 PM
Comment #385704

Oh, Sam, do your recent rants mean that you are going to be leaving us????!!!???!!!! One can only hope. As a latecomer to this site, you’re awfully bullish on who and what you encountered.

Posted by: jane doe at November 18, 2014 8:31 PM
Comment #385710

It’s not your decision to make, C&J. They can peaceably assemble and protest whether you want them to or not, whether you agree with them or not.

More to the point, you want them to get it out of their system. That’s how people remain civil. When they don’t get it out of their system, they grow in their contempt for the system, in disregard for its laws. Why should they respect what they believe to be false and unfair, lethally biased against them?

You cannot force them to trust the authorities. A government cannot take sides against its people and hope for peace and quiet.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 18, 2014 10:05 PM
Comment #385718

Stephen

They can indeed peacefully assemble. And I can peacefully point out that what they are protesting is the rule of law. We have to respect their right to protest. We do not have to respect their them or their reasons for doing it.

I suppose they may believe the system is lethally biased against them. We should try to help them out of their error and condemn those like Sharpton, Jackson and - yes - Holder, who feed on ignorance. This ignorance makes them distrust the cops and makes them more vulnerable to the real threat to young black men - other young black men.

I don’t think government should take sides against the people. That is why I deplore Holder, who represents government and has acted as he has.

Posted by: C&J at November 18, 2014 11:44 PM
Comment #385722

Sam

Yes, I am in the Kansas City area, on the MO side.

I have been here at WB for a long time now and while leftist policy is indeed very selfish and foolish, most of its contributors here are good people.

If you are willing to give it a fair chance, I really think you will enjoy WB.

Posted by: kctim at November 19, 2014 9:19 AM
Comment #385729

kctim, my sons attended college in Springfield, Mo. I like Missouri.

I find that liberals go crazy when you call them emotional and not logical. Most of the time, their responses are very adolescent.

I don’t believe there is a single conservative on WB that doesn’t understand the elitist arrogance of the pseudo-intellectual left, who believes they know what’s best for the rest of the stupid people. Gruber, the object of the left’s attacks, is a true leftist and holding true to his elitist mentality, he just HAD to spill the beans. It’s interesting that when Fox News caught up with him, he had nothing to say. Now there is talk of bringing him before Congressional committees. How much you want to bet Obama will not allow him to testify under executive privilege?

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 19, 2014 11:23 AM
Comment #385730

SJ, you might do well taking to heart kctim’s advice about attacking the message (liberalism) and not the messenger (lefties, liberals, democrats). He and I agree on very little from a political perspective other than the aforementioned approach to disagreeing with someone on this blog. This wasn’t the case until just recently and I should include myself on that caveat. I have more respect for his postulations regarding his sincere beliefs of his political inclinations, even though we still do not hold agreement on those. There are quite a few liberal commenters here that do not agree with the acerbic nature of some of my comments to conservatives and they have shown very little approval of that. This is a problem that I have experienced before but I do not seem to want to reign that in. If you feel I cross a line in that regard I can understand that and hope that it doesn’t poison the well.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 19, 2014 12:20 PM
Comment #385733

So calling me a “Smart Ass” is not attacking the messenger??? Okay, could have fooled me. Come on Speak4all, own your titles(lefties, liberals, democrats) or even “progressives”, aren’t you proud of what you are?

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 19, 2014 2:31 PM
Comment #385738

SJ, look you want to argue and I don’t. I come here to comment and make observations of comments. I am not concerned with you all that much. My suggestion to you was to follow kctim’s advice. Suit yourself. So far your ability to win friends and influence others has not gone so well on WB. In fact I would say you are no different than many other conservatives who have come here wanting to indoctrinate all liberal/progressive/democrats to your purified thought process. Normal laughter usually ensues, I don’t expect we’ll see much difference in your case but hey that’s the great thing about WB. It is here for you to make comments about what you feel is relevant. And yes I am proud of what I am. You. I have know idea about but I don’t feel any obligation to tell you either.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 19, 2014 3:14 PM
Comment #385741

Speak4all, you must have missed my comment, that I am not here to find friends. take it for what it’s worth.

In fact I would say you are no different than many other conservatives who have come here wanting to indoctrinate all liberal/progressive/democrats to your purified thought process.

And your socialist/leftist indoctrination is different how?

You are proud of what you are, but find it offensive when a conservative calls you what you are.

Sorry to burst your bubble; thinking that I may be a “can’t we all just get along” conservative, who can be swayed by liberal lies. By the way, you can call me a conservative, I don’t mind.

I have noticed you are like most liberals you like to say a lot, but never offer any proof and never answer any questions. So you just want to spout the latest “liberal talking points” and the run away. You need to change you name to Speak4obama, you certainly don’t speak for “all”, and since you represent such a minority of leftist on WB, you don’t even speak for Democrats.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 19, 2014 3:29 PM
Comment #385744

SJ, my handle was thought up by responding to people like you. You only want conservative thoughts to be considered. I would rather think that all thoughts should be considered, even yours. No bubbles bursting here but you shouldn’t complain that someone here is biased and then come up with the most biased comments that signify absolutely nothing more than your bias. The only thing I find offensive is your haughty, cavalier and demeaning attitude towards anyone that is not you. You even pretty much trash kctim’s suggestion just because it doesn’t suit your need to feel better than everyone else. I would suggest you need to get over yourself but I know your ego will not let you accomplish such a task. There is another word besides conservative that I would call you but I’ll just leave that to your imagination.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 19, 2014 3:49 PM
Comment #385749

For my conservative-minded friends:

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.

William F. Buckley, Jr.

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at November 19, 2014 6:25 PM
Comment #385753

LOL Kevin

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 19, 2014 9:06 PM
Comment #385783
SJ, you might do well taking to heart kctim’s advice about attacking the message (liberalism) and not the messenger (lefties, liberals, democrats)

Sorry Speak4all, that’s not how it works here at WatchBlog.

The messenger here at WatchBlog is an individual that makes a comment and puts his moniker on that comment. There is no mechanism in the WatchBlog Rules for Participation to create groups and give them protection from criticism. The labels (lefties, liberals, democrats) are fair game and don’t deserve the consideration you give them.

I will and must afford you the respect another human being deserves, but I do not believe your comments deserve the same.

You even pretty much trash kctim’s suggestion just because it doesn’t suit your need to feel better than everyone else.

Perhaps you don’t realize what this comment says about you, Speak4all. This comment elevates you to mind reader. What do you know of what Sam Jones needs? How do you know he needs to feel better than everyone else? Your comment is a very condescending and personal comment.

I would suggest you need to get over yourself but I know your ego will not let you accomplish such a task.

Here you refer to him as egotistical to the extent he is destructive unto himself. Again a personal and baseless accusation.

There is another word besides conservative that I would call you but I’ll just leave that to your imagination.

And here, again, without even realizing it, you resort to name-calling, but justify it by hiding it in insinuation.

So, not only is your comment wrong, i.e. rules for participation, the balance of it is utterly useless and nonconstructive, personal, and in violation of those same rules for participation.


Posted by: Weary Willie at November 20, 2014 4:25 PM
Comment #386017

Well, when you start the WW WB you can call the shots but rest assured I will not be there. Until then you can just endure my presence on this blog. I will continue to attempt to ignore your protestations.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 24, 2014 2:18 PM
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