Amnesty for Illegals

I believe in legal immigration. America is a nation of immigrants and this has been one of the big factors in our country’s greatness. I also feel sympathy for fellow humans in tough situations. I understand that America is a better place than most and why a significant plurality of the world population would move to here if they could. Another thing that made America great has been our commitment to the rule of law, so I see a conflict between my desire to benefit from and help illegal immigrants and my belief in the rule of law.

President Obama is acting like a dictator. (I added the "tator" part out of deference to the office.) He did not make immigration reform a priority when Democrats controlled the congress. He did not take strong action before the elections. Now that he will soon have a new congress, he wants to stand on his hind legs and make an issue of immigration.

My liberal friends should imagine George Bush. He was unable to get his "ownership society" through congress. What if he just implemented it by fiat?

The problem, IMO, is rule of law. As I wrote above, many people in the world would like to live and work in the U.S. Millions have applied through the legal channels and they waiting to take advantage of the limited number of slots available. Imagine two Mexican brothers. One foolishly tries to obey the law. The other runs across the border by the dark of the moon. Who made the best choice?

I am not particularly worried about Hispanic immigration. It is finished. Hispanics will not overwhelm America. Birthrates south of the border are dropping like a stone. The demographic engine is sputtering to halt. Hispanics will be assimilated into American society, just as we absorbed the Germans (still America's largest minority), Irish & Scot-Irish, as well as all those Italians, Poles, Russians, Jews and others.

I would be in favor of an immigration reform, but I don't want Obama to do it in the semi-legal fashion. Think about other things Obama has done. Do you trust this guy to do it right all by himself?

Posted by Christine & John at November 16, 2014 4:10 PM
Comments
Comment #385567

We cannot have rule of law if Congress isn’t willing to do their jobs and pass the legislation we need. You cannot support legal immigration and similtaneously oppose recent bipartisan efforts to expand legal immigration.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 16, 2014 9:05 PM
Comment #385569

Warren, can we read anything into the fact that some kind of reform legislation hasn’t been achieved Since Regan’s amnesty?

You blogged that we are all stupid to one degree or another and that you use your best intuition on complex issues. We are not stupid, but highly ignorant of detail on many issues.

More often than not, out ignorance is effected thru obfuscation or outright lies. IE; the NAU done in secret, NAFTA (will be a job creator), Fast & Furious (silence), IRS going after rep’s, Benghazi, a lot of stuff is hid in omnibus bills, and on and on and on - - - -

This is the way sausage is made and, no matter how egregious, there is no accountability by the electorate.

Why people would support a demrep is well beyond me.

But, to the point, nothing has moved on immigration as both parties want more immigration, not less. The dems are looking for voters, specifically democratic voters with a strong need of subsidy. The reps need workers. Specifically, more workers than available jobs so as to depress wages, dampen income expectations for the working class. Both sides would like more immigration to take the pressure off social security roles and hold up open border immsigration policy to the world so as to keep the skids greasted for ‘good relations/business’ around the world.

Another commonality is that neither side gives a damn about grandma, families, huddling masses to the shining light, and so on - - -

Otherwise - - -


Posted by: roy ellis at November 16, 2014 9:52 PM
Comment #385570

Warren

It is an urgent problem, but congress need not “do their job.” If they do not act, we need to go with the law as it stands today.

I support efforts to expand legal immigration. President Obama is being petulant and dishonest. He did not act when he could. Now we have a new congress coming. He should at least wait until the new guys are there and give them the chance. He does not want a solution, however.

He cannot pass a law by executive order. All he can do change how the law is enforced temporarily.

Laws require bipartisan support. All the great legislative victories have been compromises, on things like civil rights, even the slavery amendments. Obama’s challenges were not greater than those of Lincoln, Roosevelt, Johnson or even Reagan. All these presidents faced terrible opposition. But they were better presidents than Barack Obama, who seems not very good at the job at all.

Posted by: C&J at November 16, 2014 9:53 PM
Comment #385572

Obama had the House and the Senate for his first two years; why didn’t he pass immigration then? If it was so important.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 16, 2014 10:38 PM
Comment #385573

Sam

Exactly.

Posted by: C&J at November 16, 2014 10:44 PM
Comment #385575
why didn’t he pass immigration then?

Between reviving the economy, reforming health care and mitigating climate change, the 111th Congress had a lot more urgent things on its plate and still manged to be be of the most productive ones ever.

Laws require bipartisan support.

You mean like this one?

All the great legislative victories have been compromises, on things like civil rights, even the slavery amendments.
You mean like the 2001 & 2003 Bush tax cuts?
Obama’s challenges were not greater than those of Lincoln, Roosevelt, Johnson or even Reagan. All these presidents faced terrible opposition. But they were better presidents than Barack Obama, who seems not very good at the job at all.
Lincoln unilaterally freed the slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation, something that would never have passed Congress at the time. Roosevelt utilized the Democratic supermajority to irrevocably remake the role government plays in our economy. Obama will not be establishing any new precedents.
If they do not act, we need to go with the law as it stands today.
You mean like how Obama obeyed the law as it was written when dealing with those undocumented Salvadorian children last summer? I thought the GOP talking point at the time was that they thought Obama should be deporting those kids immediately without first taking the time to figure out if they can claim asylum. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 1:50 AM
Comment #385576

Warren

But the congress neither revived the economy nor limited climate change. Had they taken no action in either of those fields, we would be pretty much where we care today.

On the economy, the TARP and the Fed action were already working. The stimulus has a mixed result, some thinking it merely moved economic activity forward, creating less unemployment in 2009 and a slower recovery after.

RE climate change - U.S. emissions dropped in 2006 and have generally continued due to changes in American habits and natural gas. The Democratic congress did not change the habits, which is a long term trend, and they often opposed fracking, so increased activity there could have actually caused harm.

Re bipartisan support - you mention the Bush cuts. How popular were they? In fact, that is a good example of how things should not be done. The only better example in the last decades in ObamaCare.

Contrast that with Clinton’s welfare reform, also a very contentious issue.

Re Lincoln - he freed the slaves in the states in rebellion. He needed the amendments to the Constitution to make it stick, which he got. It was not easy to get Democrats to abolish slavery, but he managed that.

Roosevelt used Democratic super majorities, but also co-opted some Republicans. Do you really think that the same Republicans who so hated Clinton, but could and did work with him, suddenly became so unified in opposition to Obama? A more likely scenario is that Obama is just a poor leader who cannot persuade his opponents.

Obama’s poor leadership skill are on displace all the time. Even Democrats diss him. World leaders ignore him and sometimes openly despise him. Despise is an interesting work, which applies here in its full meaning.

Re undocumented children - that is also at Obama’s feet. He just doesn’t know how to run the show.

You know that if you have trouble with some people, it might be their fault. If you have trouble with everybody, there is something wrong with you.

Obama is a wonderful campaigner. People who see him in action tend to love him. He is a bad leader. People like him less when they need to work with him. Being a good campaigner gets you the job. It is like giving a great job interview. But once you have the job you have to work it.

Posted by: C&J at November 17, 2014 7:59 AM
Comment #385580

Obama wasted the first 2 years, when they had control, imposing a national HC system on the American people, that was not popular and not wanted. The ACA was the opportunity for the Federal government to take over 17% of the nations economy and impose wealth redistribution on a huge scale. The losses in 2010 by the Democrats were the direct result of Obama’s push for the ACA. Warren Porter I not being truthful when he says Obama had to many things on his plate to deal with immigration during the first two years. Let’s be truthful, the reason he did not deal with amnesty is because the House and Senate Democrats would not have supported him. They knew they would pay the price at the polls. The Democrats who supported Obama on the ACA were deceived as much as America and tricked into believing the ACA would work, and now we know the numbers were fudged purposefully. Saying he didn’t have time the first two years is untruthful.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 9:48 AM
Comment #385588

I will say this about Obama bypassing the Congress and trying to pass amnesty with his pen; it will continue to split this country in half. It will destroy any attempt to pass immigration reform. It will infuriate the conservatives and Republicans will use it to hammer Democrats through illegals taking American jobs. This will fire up the union and minority base against the Democrats. Any Democrat who supports Obama on this is supporting the destruction of the country.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 2:05 PM
Comment #385591

I will back up my last comment with an article from the Daily Caller:

President Barack Obama once declared that an influx of illegal immigrants will harm “the wages of blue-collar Americans” and “put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”
“[T]here’s no denying that many blacks share the same anxieties as many whites about the wave of illegal immigration flooding our Southern border—a sense that what’s happening now is fundamentally different from what has gone on before,” then-Senator Obama wrote in his 2006 autobiography, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream.”

”Not all these fears are irrational,” he wrote.

“The number of immigrants added to the labor force every year is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century,” Obama noted. “If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole—especially by keeping our workforce young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan—it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”

By Obama’s own book, he says that what he is planning to do with amnesty, will hurt blue collar and black workers.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 2:40 PM
Comment #385592

Thanks for the obama quotes Sam. More proof that this president speaks with forked tongue and memory of convenience.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 17, 2014 3:26 PM
Comment #385594

C&J,

OK, I got it. Obama needs to obey the rule of law. Except when conservatives disagree with the law, Obama should abolish it by diktat regardless of the consequences. Obama needs to show leadership in order to pass bipartisan legislation, except when the Senate passes a bipartisan it doesn’t count.

When do we stop making excuses for the congressional GOP? When do Boehner & McConnell stand up and say “enough is enough, the buck stops here!”? When will Congress do its job?

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 4:07 PM
Comment #385595

SJ,

To hell with the free market! What we need is more protectionism! (sarcasm)

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 4:11 PM
Comment #385597
When do we stop making excuses for the congressional GOP? When do Boehner & McConnell stand up and say “enough is enough, the buck stops here!”? When will Congress do its job?

Warren Porter, are we talking about the future Republican Senate or are we talking about the present Democrat Senate that Reid has in shutdown? Oh, wait a minute, Reid has the Senate up and running again. He is calling for a vote on the pipeline. They could have voted on 6 years ago, but now, in a last ditch effort to save Landrieu, it gets a vote.

Warren, put aside your partisanship for just a moment, but don’t you find the vote on the pipeline just a little over the top? Like playing to the base?

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 4:21 PM
Comment #385598

By the way, many Presidents have said “the buck stops here”, could you tell us when Obama has ever taken responsibility for any of his screw-ups? NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 4:24 PM
Comment #385602

Sam, I have given up on Warren. Logic, critical thought, and mental honesty have eluded him so many times that I believe it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion with him.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 17, 2014 5:23 PM
Comment #385605

I haven’t been writing on this site very long, but I am amazed at the liberals on here. It’s all editorials with no evidence. It’s all conservatives bad/liberals good. Can anyone from the left actually hold a conversation on this site. It’s like listening to a bunch of protesters on the streets of Ferguson, MO. Just say whatever enters your pea brain. The first thing said about a quote from a conservative or a liberal is to personally attack the person if their ideology disagrees with leftist.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 5:53 PM
Comment #385607

Sam

Some are okay. We are used to it anyway.

Posted by: C&J at November 17, 2014 6:08 PM
Comment #385608
are we talking about the future Republican Senate or are we talking about the present Democrat Senate that Reid has in shutdown? Oh, wait a minute, Reid has the Senate up and running again. He is calling for a vote on the pipeline. They could have voted on 6 years ago, but now, in a last ditch effort to save Landrieu, it gets a vote.

Reid did his job. The immigration bill passed the Senate. It’s the House that didn’t follow suit.

Regarding Keystone: Voting now is a ludicrous and highly hypocritical.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 6:17 PM
Comment #385610
could you tell us when Obama has ever taken responsibility for any of his screw-ups

Sure, like any good leader, Obama knows when to be contrite in the face of his humanity:

He claimed responsibility for the flawed rollout of the healthcare.org website

He claimed responsibility for the lapse of security inBenghazi.

He took responsibility for the response to the Deep Water Horizon environmental disaster.

Contrast this with Speaker Boehner. Boehner’s serpentine linguistic acrobatics prevents him for taking responsibility for the paucity of legislation passed by both houses of Congress. It is John Boehner’s job to lead the whole HOR, not just the far right Tea Party. As long as Democrats control the Presidency and wield the filibuster in the Senate, Boenher must offer policy concessions to the left in order to do his job and pass the laws the nation desperately needs.

Logic, critical thought, and mental honesty have eluded him
I made the exact same determination regarding you, KAP, CT and other conservatives a long time ago. However, I try not to advertise my conclusions because I feel that doing so would be in poor taste and would generally expose me as so incredibly insecure that I feel the need to admonish strangers I have never met only to make myself feel bigger.
It’s all editorials with no evidence. It’s all conservatives bad/liberals good. Can anyone from the left actually hold a conversation on this site.
Look in the mirror mister. Have you written anything other than liberals bad/conservatives good? And yes, I support my arguments with evidence from external sources whenever I can, which means a lot more than simply linking to a commentary written by a fellow ideologue like you often do. Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 6:45 PM
Comment #385613

If Reid did his job; then the Republicans did their job to block Obama. The real problem is the Congress has allowed Obama to take their authority away from them. They have been giving up legislative authority to the executive branch for years.

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 7:20 PM
Comment #385614
then the Republicans did their job to block Obama/blockquote>

So blocking Obama is more important nowadays than solving the nation’s immigration problems?

The real problem is the Congress has allowed Obama to take their authority away from them. They have been giving up legislative authority to the executive branch for years.

Definitely a real concern that became very apparent during the 110th Congress when Congressional Democrats ceded their mandate to end the war in Iraq. Instead, they granted Bush vast deference in the matter, which led to the implementation of the surge strategy. Likewise, Congress never pursued prosecution for the alleged torture of detainees said to have been conducted under the Bush administration. Congress didn’t even do anything to empower the FISA court’s ability to check the NSA’s wiretapping and spying.

The 111th Congress featured a refreshing change of pace as the Obama administration mostly deferred to Congress when it came to drafting new laws. Much of the 111th Congress’ major legislation (such as Dodd-Frank, Markey-Waxman and the PPACA) all emanated from Congress with minimal executive intervention.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 17, 2014 7:28 PM
Comment #385617

YES, blocking Obama’s socialist takeover of the country. Is that so hard to understand?

Posted by: Sam Jones at November 17, 2014 7:38 PM
Comment #385647

SJ, you get what you give here at WB. I do not usually get involved in lengthy discussions. I generally just comment on what my political inclinations are on a specific topic. There are individuals here that do enjoy a good back and forth discussion if there is a reasonable amount of comity. I cannot find evidence of any such comity displayed by you in any of your comments. You seem to berate liberals for doing the exact same thing that you yourself do. Good luck finding someone to discuss politics on this blog with but if you continue with the right wing nonsense I expect you will find very few people that want to pay any attention to your pap. By the way there are many commenters, lurkers and posters on this site that helped elect President Obama (two times) and denigrating him or his attempts to deal with Republicans doesn’t really mean much to them since they know that he is attempting to accomplish is exactly what they elected him to do, no matter your protestations. Oh and yes I did vote for President Obama and I am looking forward to contributing to the Presidential Library Foundation. Aren’t you excited about that?

Warren, yes Conservative Thinker for sure. Didn’t get it at first but you are correct.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 18, 2014 10:18 AM
Comment #385719
YES, blocking Obama’s socialist takeover of the country. Is that so hard to understand?

More emotional pleas to stop a boogeyman of your imagination? I expected better from you. Maybe instead of slandering the President you can calmly explain why you feel he is an existential threat to American exceptionalism.

Posted by: Warren Porter at November 19, 2014 7:26 AM
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