Could the Ottawa Shooter Have Been Stopped?

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau was a petty criminal with robbery and drug charges, born in Quebec, Canada, who had converted to Islam. But according to police north of the border he was a “lone wolf” with no connection to ISIL. You see, he wasn’t on a police list, so he couldn’t have been weaponized. He couldn’t possibly have been motivated to act out violently against innocent civilians and murder Corporal Nathan Cirillo, from Hamilton, Canada, a reservist with dreams of becoming a full time member of the Canadian military and who died from gunshot wounds to the abdomen suffered while guarding the National War Memorial a few blocks from the Parliament Buildings. Until Michael Zehaf-Bibeau appears on some list, he can’t possibly have a connection to islamic terrorism, specifically ISIL, according to police in Canada.

Assuming they get their act together and state as soon as possible that this is an act of terror, we now have growing evidence, similar to what was foiled in Rochester, of ISIL using social media to inspire individuals to acts of violence in North America, Europe, Australia and elsewhere. This is fundamentally different from terrorists being trained abroad and returning to their adopted country to carry out terrorists acts, or terrorists from abroad trying to infiltrate into the USA, or elsewhere. This is targeting anyone who might have a propensity to violence without necessarily requiring strict adherence to any crazed sect or cult within radical islamic thought. They just need to act violently. A target for the "lone wolf" may be suggested, as in the recent case in Quebec, Canada, of a native Quebecer running over a military officer with his car and killing him, after suggestions by islamic terrorists to that effect. To combat this new and disturbing trend requires speed, precision, and flexibility and not a whole lot of bureaucratic stonewalling to cover up their lack of intelligence. That's not to say Bibeau was an obvious suspect, but releasing names and photos of suspects as soon as possible - thank God for CBS for releasing the information - rather than old fashioned discretion is clearly called for. The community at large needs to be vigilant about any suspicious activity and the police in Canada need to bring in the community in a way that is already standard practice in the USA. Could they have stopped Bibeau? Who knows, but more flexible and collaborative law enforcement efforts are needed. And needed now. Anywhere - from Mumbai to Ottawa to Rochester - that a crazed home-bred individual might decide to act out.

Posted by Keeley at October 23, 2014 3:48 PM
Comment #384518

ISIL, al-Qaeda, and other groups are real organizations whose behavior and activities need to be tracked accurately. If he’s not ISIL, if he’s not al-Qaeda, if he doesn’t seem to belong to or be associated with any known or novel terrorist group, then it is accurate and truthful to say to the world that he’s not part of those groups.

If, while running down his personal connections, they find one that goes back to the people involved, and evidence develops that he was part of a group, then say he’s part of the group.

Good information and disciplined investigations will catch more terrorists, put more behind bars, kill more overseas, than overheated speculation and lazily thought out suspicion.

Also, let’s understand some things, media-wise. When you reveal to the press that somebody’s a suspect, their reputation can take a hit. Defamation is only defensible when it’s backed by truth.

So, one reason they won’t tell you who suspects are is because not all of them will actually turn out to have done anything wrong, and if you cast suspicion on them in the media, they can turn around and sue you (rightfully) for having damaged or destroyed their reputation.

Another reason is that when these investigations are ongoing, they might be looking for that person, or failing that, looking for their associations. Leaking their name to the press might spook the suspects, give them time and opportunity to destroy evidence and hightail it out of there.

Additionally, if you’re doing terror investigations, you do not want terrorist groups knowing how much you know until you have the people you’re looking for slapped in cuffs and the raids and stuff are a done deal.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 24, 2014 5:31 PM
Comment #384522

Seems to me the right whines about their right to privacy until they’re scared sh**less by some incident. Especially if the perpetrator of that incident has a Middle-eastern sounding name.

And, if the gunman isn’t immediately branded a terrorist, or his act, an act of terror, they are screaming to know why.

We seem to have a problem with brown people with funny names in this country.


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 25, 2014 9:50 AM
Comment #384523

I’m sure you, Rocky, would have a problem with a brown skinned person with a funny name if he were blowing up, shooting up, or other such thing in your town. Then who would be doing the whining, Rocky? Don’t give us the BS you wouldn’t because I’m sure you would be the first whiner, Rocky.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 25, 2014 12:00 PM
Comment #384524

Really Cap… that’s where you want to go with this?


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 25, 2014 2:21 PM
Comment #384525

It seems to me there are three factors in common that apply to almost all of the violence experienced in the United States: 1) Mental Illness, 2) Gender, and 3) Guns.

Posted by: phx8 at October 25, 2014 6:07 PM
Comment #384526

BTW, I am talking about lethal violence. There are a lot of causes, but the bottom line is, a homeless guy in Canada murdering a soldier is not much different than a high school shooter blowing away some kids at a lunch table. Same results. It is the same mix again and again: mental illness, males and guns.

Posted by: phx8 at October 25, 2014 6:17 PM
Comment #384527

Hatchets and cars seem to work well too.

Posted by: roy ellis at October 25, 2014 7:08 PM
Comment #384528

A hatchet attack badly wounded one man and injured one other. When police shot the attacker dead, they actually wounded a woman bystander.

A car was used killed one man and hurt one other.

In the recent school shooting near Seattle, two people were killed, three are in critical condition with head wounds, and one other is in severe condition.

Violence will still occur. It is the level of lethality that goes up so much with guns. The trick is to find a way to separate mentally ill males from guns. One way is to address mental illness. The other is to address the availability of guns.

Posted by: phx8 at October 25, 2014 7:30 PM
Comment #384529

Well Rocky you were the one who brought up whiners about brown skinned people with funny names so IMO you opened yourself up to criticism. Phx8 first off mental illness IMO those who are found with mental illness need to be taken off the streets and we can thank a Democrat for the start of M.H.H. closing with the CMHA namely Pres. Kennedy. Reopening Mental Health facilities would be a good start. Males and guns, most are sane people it’s the MENTAL part that needs to be addressed. By the way where did you get that the shooter in Canada was Homeless? My news article says he was a loner who applied for a passport and I think you need a place of residence for a passport.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 25, 2014 7:31 PM
Comment #384530

By the way, it is somewhat ironic that the only person who died in the hatchet attack was the attacker. He was shot to death.

The attacker who used a car was also shot to death.

So was the school shooter. He killed himself with a gun.

The crazy guy in Parliament was also shot dead. I would like to know how a homeless guy got hold of a shotgun in the first place. The homeless guy had been trying to sleep & live in a mosque in BC, and he acted weird, so eventually they kicked him out. A more proactive approach to mental illness (and homelessness) might have generated very different results.

Posted by: phx8 at October 25, 2014 7:44 PM
Comment #384531

phx8, Where do you get the Canadian shooter was homeless???? CNN, MSNBC, FOX nowhere does it say he was homeless.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 25, 2014 8:45 PM
Comment #384535

The Canadian shooter lived at a homeless shelter in the days before the shooting.

Posted by: Rich at October 25, 2014 9:15 PM
Comment #384536

I found where you got the idea he was homeless phx8, If you read the article he was from Calgary in Ottawa on passport issues living at a homeless shelter there.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 25, 2014 9:16 PM
Comment #384561

These lone wolf terrorist attacks- assuming they are terrorist attacks- just don’t matter much to me. Of course it is always terrible when someone is murdered, but when one person murders another, the motivation doesn’t seem very newsworthy. The one guy making into the Canadian Parliament deserves mention, but I guess what it comes out to is this: I am not terrorized.

The media has been banging the drum for fear and war for the past few weeks. Be afraid of ISIS! Be afraid of Ebola! Be afraid of illegal immigration by ISIS terrorists with Ebola!

I know. I know. The media needs to keep people ‘entertained,’ and ‘if it bleeds, it leads.’ But it is rather remarkable that we are coming up on an election, and there is virtually no discussion of whether we are better off now than we were in 2008. No one wants to hear good news. Obamacare succeeded, but it is being ignored as an issue. The economy is good. No one wants to talk about that either.

Just this somewhat bizarre drumbeat- be afraid, be afraid, be afraid.

Posted by: phx8 at October 26, 2014 2:23 PM
Comment #384569

Phx8, I agree the press runs some of these issues into the ground. But, I can understand that the news media is a business with a bottom line to consider. It’s way more cost effective to bring in some talking heads to debate on some domestic issue than to say, pay a crew to go do an hour on Ukraine, ISIS and so on - - -

Also, this Ebola thing is relatively new and the jury is still out as to the level of risk in the U.S. If it blows up, O’reilly may be proved right. Until it markedly worsens I don’t believe the gov’t should regulate flights to/from the effected countries.

I think you are playing loose, maybe armchair quarterbacking, with the security issue. Easy to put security on the back burner, until you need a cop or a military force for good, with a gun or two. Can you imagine the level of massacre if ISIS was left to play the field alone? And, what about the level of civil war that the ME would undergo were there not a ‘force for good’ taking care of business?

Also, were ISIS left alone in the sandbox, imagine the number of ‘lone wolf’ attacks on the domestic scene. The actions of the WTC plane bombings, the Boston marathon bombing, and the Lockerbie flight weren’t all that far removed from a ‘lone wolf’ attack. A lone wolf with a 5 qt cooker can take out way more people than he could with a semi automatic whatever.

As to guns, I live in a fairly remote area and I can’t depend on the calvary to come and save me if a lone wolf barges into my place of abode. My best hope is to introduce him to my friends, Mr. Smith & Wesson, before he gets beyond my mailbox.

Surely, you don’t think that if all guns were made illegal the bad guys would not have access to them. Just the opposite in the real world. Yes, we could, and perhaps should, vet folks who want to purchase a gun but do you believe this would keep a mentally ill person from getting their hands on a weapon?

As to immigration, I don’t know of any wording in the Constitution or the Bible that says we should let folks cross our borders harboring mal intent. Most recent is the lone wolf and his girlfriend who shot up 3 or 4 cops in Calif. He had quite a rap sheet and had been deported two or three times.

There should be a legal process where folks coming in are vetted. To do otherwise is, IMO, nearing stupidity. Same goes for the UVA hospital who apparently didn’t vet or didn’t do a very good job of vetting the ex-Lynchburg football player who, it appears, has killed a few folks. Imagine having such an animal tending your bedside in a sick ward, and so on - - -

Watched a whodunnit tonite where some folks came in from over there to Miami some 20 years ago. They first tortured one fella to gain his assets, then set him and his car on fire to get rid of him. He stumbled out so they ran over him twice but, the poor fella lived still. Thinking he was dead, they set about to abduct another rich couple. Unfortunately they choked the man too much and he died. They gave the woman a shot of horse tranquilizer, enough to kill 4 horses, and she died, and so on - - -

Nary a gun brandished here, phx8. The random one or two killed here and there amounts to several thousands over the years.

I too, would like to see some debate on the issues. I’d like a debate on how to hold congress and the admin responsible for all the deaths and damage caused by illegals entering unfettered, actually habilitated to a high degree.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at October 26, 2014 10:58 PM
Comment #384579


“Well Rocky you were the one who brought up whiners about brown skinned people with funny names so IMO you opened yourself up to criticism.”

Except it seems you felt the need to take it to a new level by making it personel, which, BTW, is against the “rules for participation”.

Yeah, I know, some people from the right just can’t help themselves. Which I have tried to point out.

The right wing media is all about fear and mythinformation, because a fearful populace is a pliable populace.

It’s hard to think straight when your panties are in a wad, and it seems the right’s best and only response to anything is, well, “BENGHAZI!!!”.

Sadly it happened, but your narative has been proven wrong, get over it.


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 27, 2014 11:50 AM
Comment #384588


There was a pistol used in the “Sun Gym Gang” abduction. It is an incredible story. One that could only have happened in Miami.

Posted by: Rich at October 27, 2014 5:21 PM
Comment #384591

Well Rocky, I’m one of those right wingers, but the fact remains liberal/progressives would be doing the whining if one of those brown skinned funny named people were in their neighborhood blowing things up or shooting people now wouldn’t they Rocky.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 27, 2014 6:01 PM
Comment #384592



A fabulous description of right wing media.

Posted by: Rich at October 27, 2014 7:33 PM
Comment #384593


“Well Rocky, I’m one of those right wingers, but the fact remains liberal/progressives would be doing the whining if one of those brown skinned funny named people were in their neighborhood blowing things up or shooting people now wouldn’t they Rocky.”

Would they Kap?

Does the right now claim omniscience?

You assume that I am a liberal/progressive. And you would presume to call me a liar if I deny;

“Don’t give us the BS you wouldn’t because I’m sure you would be the first whiner, Rocky”

being afraid of “brown people”.

The right pretends to know an awful lot about how everybody else thinks, yet they deny they can be read like a cheap novel.

The best you guys can come up with when confronted with the truth is… wait for it…BENGHAZI!!! which has been, BTW, refuted time and again.

The fear from the right is palpable.
Time to wake up and smell the pavement.


Thanks, it just came to me while reading one of j2’s posts.


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 27, 2014 8:17 PM
Comment #384595

Rocky, Bob Beckle and Juan Williams two well know left wing commentators both said they had a nervous reaction when getting on a plane that those middle eastern people you say the right fears are on board. Rocky, I really don’t give a rats behind which side of the fence you are on but if someone sticks their nose in your business or blows up, shoots up things in your neighborhood I’m sure your concern will peak just like mine will if it happens in my neighborhood. As far as Benghazi is concerned IMO so much has been covered up just like so much crap has been covered up from the Bush Administration that we will NEVER know what the truth is. That’s the problem we have with politics and politicians no one knows the truth from the BULLS!!T.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 27, 2014 8:58 PM
Comment #384596


I’ve been all over the world.

I’ve worked with people from Bangladesh, Azerbaijan, Iran, Iraq, Mexico (in Mexico), Indonesia, the Philippines, China, etc. I’ve worked with Christians, Baha’i, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.
I have a pretty good handle on people.

The bottom line is that these people are all virtually the same. The only difference is their countries of origin.

In the last two years I worked in Des Moines IA, Quincy WA, and San Diego CA.

I drove to all of these places.

I rarely fly, and my reasons are not what you think. Number one is the cluster f**k at the airport. Number two is the corporate rental car drama.

You mention Juan Williams, Bob Beckle and their phobias. What exactly is the point of being nervous on a plane.

As I see it you have two choices;

You can make a fool of yourself and get off of the plane, or;
Stay and enjoy the flight.

Airline travel is safer than walking down a city street.

Fear is the mind killer…


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 27, 2014 9:25 PM
Comment #384597

Rocky, I was in the USN for 14 years and been to most of the same places you have and then some and yes people are the same all over. The problem we have are the radical nut cases. Those 2 examples I gave are representative of a lot more both right wing and left and not just for flying. I haven’t been on a plane since 1979 when I got out of the Navy. As far as fear goes you may not have it, but you are in a very small minority. With the things that have been going on lately I expect people do have some fears and rightly so.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 27, 2014 10:31 PM
Comment #384614


“The problem we have are the radical nut cases.”

The problem is not that we have nut cases, but that we have been told we need to fear them.

“As far as fear goes you may not have it, but you are in a very small minority. With the things that have been going on lately I expect people do have some fears and rightly so.”

The terrorist’s mindset is to create terror. If he succeeds he wins. Well… if what you say is true, it would appear he has won, and that’s sad.

I have lived my life the same after Sept. 11th, as I did before.

I refuse to live in fear. I try to stay informed, and, oh BTW, I don’t need to step in it to know what it is.

I refuse to let him win.

The full quote from Frank Herbert;

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Posted by: Rocky Marks at October 27, 2014 11:50 PM
Comment #384615

“The terrorist’s mindset is to create terror. If he succeeds he wins. Well… if what you say is true, it would appear he has won, and that’s sad.”

Exactly right. Americans- particularly conservative Americans- are a weak and disappointing bunch these days, often misinformed and perpetually fearful. Ebola, ISIS, fear of illegal immigrants…

I don’t know how the future will refer to Americans of the Obama years, but it sure as hell won’t be The Greatest Generation.

We have conservatives who used to say this midterm election would be about the economy. They dropped that because we now have ‘the best economy of the modern era,’ and every commonly used statistic backs that up. Conservatives used to say this midterm would be about Obamacare. They dropped that too. Virtually everything they said about it turned out to be wrong. They used to say it would be about the so-called scandals, like Benghazi! or the IRS. And here we are today, with no indictments, no trials, no convictions, literally nothing to show for it.

So now it is all about fear. Hundreds of millions of dollars are being poured into negative advertising relentlessly attacking Obama. There is not even a pretense of standing for anything positive at all. And these people want to govern? Good lord.

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Comment #384780
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