Hamas Tunnels

How close are these to the ocean? It might be interesting to divert sea water into the tunnel network.

Posted by Christine & John at August 1, 2014 5:16 PM
Comments
Comment #381675

That is a despicable suggestion. These tunnels are certainly used by Hamas but they are also used by citizens of Gaza not affiliated with Hamas to bring medicine/food/and other supplies in because of the siege on Gaza. While I cannot agree with Hamas in any way or form this action might harm innocent citizens but that hasn’t seemed to stop Israel.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 1, 2014 5:27 PM
Comment #381677

Those who want to stay staff should stay out of the tunnels. they have no legitimate business there.

Hamas likes it when civilians are killed. It is part of their strategy.

It also shows how bad Hamas is. They cannot seem to build homes or hospitals, but they are master tunnelers.

We used to do it with gophers and moles. I am not sure how it worked, but it was fun.

Posted by: CJ at August 1, 2014 6:34 PM
Comment #381679

“Hamas likes it when civilians are killed. It is part of their strategy.”

And Israel feels compelled to accommodate them. What a mess. Tragic when civilians are trapped on all sides.


Posted by: Rich at August 1, 2014 8:41 PM
Comment #381680

Rich

Hamas started this particular conflict and refuses to respect even its own cease fires. I really don’t know what the Israelis should do. Hamas will make sure lots of people die. They seem not very concerned if it is their people or Israelis.

What annoys me is Muslim dishonesty. Syria kills tens of thousands on purpose and you hear much less than Israel defending itself. I bet Hamas kills more Muslims than the Israelis do, since they tend to not use their weapons well. That was the case with Iraqis. They shoot pretty much straight up and rain death down on the people nearby, almost always “their people”

Golda Meir said that there will be peace when the Arabs love their own children more than they hate the Jews. She was right.

Posted by: CJ at August 1, 2014 8:57 PM
Comment #381681

What’s tragic is the cowardice of Hamas, Rich, hiding among civilians. It’s tragic when the enemy lets the civilians take a bullet for them instead of being man enough to fight for your cause openly.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 1, 2014 9:02 PM
Comment #381682

I am not defending Hamas. They don’t even have support from Muslim nations. In fact, most Muslim nations are either silent on the crisis or openly supportive of Israel. Hamas is worse than Israel. http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/israel-gaza-region/index.html

It is inevitable in such a crowded urban area that military units will be mixed with civilian living and commercial areas. The consequences are apparent: massive civilian casualties and displacement.

This tragedy is the result of a failure to reach a reasonable two state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Cramming almost two million people into a virtual prison is an obvious breeding ground for extremism. The hard hardheartedness of both sides has come to roost.

Posted by: Rich at August 1, 2014 9:38 PM
Comment #381685

Let’s provide the Palestinians in Gaza with the same weaponry as we give the Israelis. I guarantee the nature of this conflict will change. The Israelis will not feel free to fire artillery into a densely populated urban area if they know the Palestinians will respond with equal lethality. When 1,000 Israeli civilians die for every 1,000 Palestinian ones, both sides will reconsider their approach. Maybe then the Israelis will rethink the idea of embargoing the Palestinians inside a Middle Eastern version of the Warsaw Ghetto.

These two sides deserve each other and every bit of hatred and religious fanaticism they inflict upon one another. But let’s not fan the flames by arming or supporting either side.

Posted by: phx8 at August 1, 2014 11:14 PM
Comment #381687

phx8


“Let’s provide the Palestinians in Gaza with the same weaponry as we give the Israelis. I guarantee the nature of this conflict will change.”

Yes let’s give a terrorist organization that has vowed to destroy Israel the weapons to do so. Hamas will never live in peace with Israel regardless of what concessions the Israelis make. Hamas uses civilians as human shields for its weapons, and intentionally causes civilian casualties in order to drum up public outrage a point that seems to be lost to the ignorant masses.

Posted by: dbs at August 2, 2014 6:03 AM
Comment #381690

Let’s put an embargo around Israel like the Israelis do to Gaza and keep it there. And lets do like the Israelis do in the West Bank, and if any Israelis fight back, bulldoze their houses and give it to a Palestinian.

Make no mistake. The Israelis are every bit as bad as Hamas- just better armed.

Posted by: phx8 at August 2, 2014 11:48 AM
Comment #381691

I have said many times about Gaza that it used to be a great place. In the late Roman Empire, it was a mostly Greek-speaking cultural center, a pleasant place to live. After the Barbarian/Arab invasions, it was never again run well. Bring back Caesar.

Posted by: CJ at August 2, 2014 12:42 PM
Comment #381692

Israel just wants to be left alone phx8. Hamas struck the first blow so I guess according to you Israel should just sit and take it. They can’t help that Hamas is a cowardly group that hides behind women and children.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 2, 2014 1:13 PM
Comment #381693

phx8

“Let’s put an embargo around Israel like the Israelis do to Gaza and keep it there. And lets do like the Israelis do in the West Bank, and if any Israelis fight back, bulldoze their houses and give it to a Palestinian.”

Yes lets starve the Israelis so they can’t defend themselves, and let the Islamic extremists wipe them off the face of the earth. If the Palestinians don’t want their houses bulldozed maybe they should stop allowing terrorist to use them as staging grounds for attacks. if the KKK had a presidential candidate and he won would you defend that as well ? The Palestinians gave majority control to a terrorist organization. What part of that don’t you get ?

“Make no mistake. The Israelis are every bit as bad as Hamas- just better armed.”

Bull$#it !

Posted by: dbs at August 2, 2014 2:05 PM
Comment #381694

Rich

“This tragedy is the result of a failure to reach a reasonable two state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”

As long as hamas is present in Gaza there will be no solution period. No concession Israel can make will stop hamas from trying to destroy them. They have made it clear they will never recognize Israel’s right to exist.

Posted by: dbs at August 2, 2014 3:48 PM
Comment #381695

As a self declared liberal I find it disturbing how many people on the left abandon a functioning democratic nation and instead support an organization of murderous sociopathic terrorists. Support of Israel is really the only issue on which I agree with the majority of neocon-neolibs and I can’t understand how anyone without a craven agenda can support a group like Hamas (note that’s Hamas, I’m not talking about sympathy to the plight of the “Palestinians”).
So I ask myself, why do so many otherwise reasonable people on the left support Hamas? Is it a reflexive response to rightwing support, i.e. W likes it so it must be wrong? That would be like the Republicans in congress. Is it anti-Semitism, i.e. a self-unaware bigotry of some sort? That would be like rightist hatred of a brown President. Or something else?
When I hear arguments for Hamas there’s always almost a simplistic demonization of Israel. So I think most often support for Hamas is from a short term view ignoring or unaware of the broader history of the issue going back to post-WWI and the colonial powers post-Ottoman empire.
I ask, is it possible for someone here to provide a rationally and factually based presentation that doesn’t use emotive words to explain their support of Hamas over Israel?

Posted by: Dave at August 2, 2014 4:23 PM
Comment #381696

Dave,
American ideals of freedom and liberty depend on a separation of church and state. It is inconsistent with our vision of government and it is fundamentally inconsistent with democracy and the concept of a republic, to support nations which officially incorporate religion into their government. I do not support Islamic states. I do not support Christian states. And I do not support a Jewish state.

People in other countries are free to practice self-determination. They may choose to form Islamic states, Christian states, or a Jewish state. That does not mean our country has to support them.

The United States has always had a special relationship with Israel, born from the horrific experience of the Jewish people in the Holocaust of WWII. We Americans felt deep sympathy and did everything we could to help them and help the founding of Israel. It is completely understandable why we did so. Our intentions were good.

But the creation of a Jewish state came at the expense of the Palestinians. The people of that region lived together peacefully prior to WWII. After the war and the founding of Israel, the Palestinians clearly had no desire to live in a Jewish state. Since neither Palestinians nor Jews were capable of living together and simply agreeing to disagree, and solving their problems peacefully, the result has been almost perpetual war.

The United States has no business perpetuating that war by arming one side or the other.

Our media presents a ridiculously one-sided version of the conflict. Watch the news. See how many minutes are devoted to each side, and how each side is presented. How many Israelis are dignified with a personal name? How many Palestinians? How much time is devoted to Netanyahu? How much to any leaders of Hamas?

Posted by: phx8 at August 2, 2014 5:35 PM
Comment #381697

Also, if Israel were a democracy, I am pretty sure the Palestinians would not vote for Netanyahu. However, we routinely exclude the Palestinians from the West Bank, Gaza, and the refugee camps in Lebanon. They form a majority.

It is a little like calling the United States a democracy before the Civil War. It was a very fine democracy for white males, but for the majority of the population- women, blacks, and American Indians- eh, not so much.

Posted by: phx8 at August 2, 2014 6:39 PM
Comment #381698

There is a large reason, phx8.
The nation of Israel is represented by PM Netanyahu. That is they are a nation, period.

Hamas is a terrorist organization represented by a NGO that uses every terrorist tactic to kill Jews. Even to the point of killing their own people. There is no logical explanation for that kind of activity.

“I do not support Islamic states. I do not support Christian states. And I do not support a Jewish state.”

Then who in the world do you support? Only the states that do not believe in GOD? Or any government that is left on the earth after you allow that you do not support any government? How foolish is that.

Posted by: tom humes at August 2, 2014 8:15 PM
Comment #381699

phx8

Before the Civil War, the U.S. was still the most democratic large state in the history of the world.

An imperfect Israel is still the most democratic place in that benighted region. An Arab who disagrees with the government there is safer than in those Muslim paradises nearby.

Nobody ever lives up to the ideal. We need to look to the realities.

BTW - Gaza was better run and with more liberty when the Romans ran the place, as I wrote above.

Posted by: CJ at August 2, 2014 8:36 PM
Comment #381700

phx,

I did ask about Hamas, not about the “Palestinians”. Here’s a little recent history about Gaza and the West Bank:
West Bank


Since the Israel – Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition of 1993, most of the Palestinian population and cities came under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, and only partial Israeli military control, although Israel has frequently redeployed its troops and reinstated full military administration in various parts of the two territories. On July 31, 1988, King Hussein surrendered all Jordanian claims to the West Bank to the PLO.

Gaza Strip
Gaza Strip was allotted to the Arab state under United Nations Partition Plan of 1947, but Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt after the 1948 war.Between 1948 and 1967, the Gaza Strip was under Egyptian military administration, being officially under the jurisdiction of the All-Palestine Government until in 1959 in was merged into the United Arab Republic, de facto becoming under direct Egyptian military governorship.Between 1967 and 1993, the Gaza Strip was under Israeli military administration. In March 1979, Egypt renounced all claims to the Gaza Strip in the Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty.Since the Israel – Palestine Liberation Organization letters of recognition of 1993, the Gaza Strip came under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority.

Posted by: Dave at August 3, 2014 12:53 AM
Comment #381701

phx8 wrote; “Let’s provide the Palestinians in Gaza with the same weaponry as we give the Israelis.”

It’s sad how little thought you must have given this idea before committing it to writing. Can you not think of a few reasons why we support Israel in their defense against those who wish to annihilate them?

According to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, the Arab population in 2013 was estimated at 1,658,000, representing 20.7% of the country’s population. The majority of these identify themselves as Arab or Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship.

These Arab or Palestinian Israelis citizens are being fired on and killed along with Jewish citizens.

I did a Google search and could not readily find any Arab country with Jews as full citizens. Perhaps phx8 can find one…or more.

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 3, 2014 5:44 PM
Comment #381702

How did Hamas come to power? It was the result of an election in 2006 pushed by the Bush administration. Oooops! That was a mistake. “Against the advice of Israeli officials, the administration had pushed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to hold the elections without delay, believing that the voting would strengthen his hand in disarming militia groups. Instead, the plan backfired, and an organization that has claimed credit for dozens of suicide bombings — some resulting in the deaths of Americans — is poised to take power.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012601009.html

After the election, everyone, including many Arab states, backpedaled on the election and attempted to marginalize Hamas.

Like I said before, it is simply a mess.

Posted by: Rich at August 3, 2014 7:41 PM
Comment #381703

RF,
Turkey has 20,000 Jews who are full citizens. Turkey is a model of what a secular democracy can do. Although the population is 97% Muslim, the government remains fiercely secular.

Oh wait. Conservatives like to pretend that, since Turkey is a few hundred miles from Israel, it must not be counted as part of the region. Sorry to intrude with facts.

The rest of the world is appalled and finds Israel repugnant for its slaughter of civilians in Gaza, with bombings of schools and hospitals depressingly common. Over 1,000 are dead. Here in the US, we pretend that didn’t happen. We have NO business supporting a country like Israel.

Check out the statement by one of the top leaders in the Knesset. It is chuck full of advocacy for war crimes and ethnic cleansing.

The Israelis are every bit as monstrous as Hamas:

“Mr. Prime Minister,

We have just heard that Hamas has used the ceasefire to abduct an officer. It turns out that this operation is not about to be over any too soon.

The failures of this operation were inherent to it from the outset, because:

a) It has no proper and clear goal;
b) there is no appropriate moral framework to support our soldiers.

What is required now is that we internalize the fact that Oslo is finished, that this is our country – our country exclusively, including Gaza.

There are no two states, and there are no two peoples. There is only one state for one people.

Having internalized this, what is needed is a deep and thorough strategic review, in terms of the definition of the enemy, of the operational tasks, of the strategic goals, and of course, of appropriate necessary war ethics.

(1) Defining the enemy:

The strategic enemy is extremist Arab Islam in all its varieties, from Iran to Gaza, which seeks to annihilate Israel in its entirety. The immediate enemy is Hamas. (Not the tunnels, not the rockets, but Hamas.)

(2) Defining the tasks

Conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.

(3) Defining the strategic goal:

To turn Gaza into Jaffa, a flourishing Israeli city with a minimum number of hostile civilians.

(4) Defining war ethics: “Woe to the evildoer, and woe to his neighbor”

In light of these four points, Israel must do the following:

a) The IDF [Israeli army] shall designate certain open areas on the Sinai border, adjacent to the sea, in which the civilian population will be concentrated, far from the built-up areas that are used for launches and tunneling. In these areas, tent encampments will be established, until relevant emigration destinations are determined.

The supply of electricity and water to the formerly populated areas will be disconnected.

b) The formerly populated areas will be shelled with maximum fire power. The entire civilian and military infrastructure of Hamas, its means of communication and of logistics, will be destroyed entirely, down to their foundations.

c) The IDF will divide the Gaza Strip laterally and crosswise, significantly expand the corridors, occupy commanding positions, and exterminate nests of resistance, in the event that any should remain.

d) Israel will start searching for emigration destinations and quotas for the refugees from Gaza. Those who wish to emigrate will be given a generous economic support package, and will arrive at the receiving countries with considerable economic capabilities.

e) Those who insist on staying, if they can be proven to have no affiliation with Hamas, will be required to publicly sign a declaration of loyalty to Israel, and receive a blue ID card similar to that of the Arabs of East Jerusalem.

f) When the fighting will end, Israeli law will be extended to cover the entire Gaza Strip, the people evicted from the Gush Katif will be invited to return to their settlements, and the city of Gaza and its suburbs will be rebuilt as true Israeli touristic and commercial cities…

Moshe Feiglin

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/concentrate-and-exterminate-israel-parliament-deputy-speakers-gaza-genocide-plan

Posted by: phx8 at August 3, 2014 8:00 PM
Comment #381704

Correction:

Over 1,000 CIVILIANS died in Gaza at the hands of Israeli soldiers.

Hamas is terrible. Israel is even worse.

And the United States has NO business supporting either one. They do not represent our ideals.

Posted by: phx8 at August 3, 2014 8:05 PM
Comment #381705

1,000 civilians died in Gaza by the hands of Israeli soldiers. Hamas is terrible Israel is worse. What ignorant, stupid, idiotic BS. Hamas kills Israeli citizens yet Israel is supposed to let that happen because the cowards called Hamas hide behind women and children. Please phx8, enlighten us on how Israel is supposed to defend itself when Hamas hides behind women and children???

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 3, 2014 9:30 PM
Comment #381706

Hamas has proven over the last few weeks that it is the scum of the Earth. Israel is not much better. All of those bombs they drop in Gaza don’t actually do much to hurt Hamas, but they do terrorize the Gazans much more so than those rockets terrorize the Israelis. I really don’t care who “wins” this latest fight because it is definitely clear that the two state solution is dead. Israel currently has all the marbles; it’s only a matter of time until Judea and Samaria are annexed and an Apartheid regime is formed. As someone of Jewish decent, I think it is very important that there is a Jewish state in the Levant, the traditional Jewish homeland. Unfortunately, I really cannot fathom how such a state can be sustainable unless it abandons its experiment with Western/Secular democracy, which clearly has proven unable to bring peace to its citizens.

Posted by: Warren Porter at August 3, 2014 9:41 PM
Comment #381707

Then Warren, get rid of Hamas then the bombs stop dropping on Gaza. As long as Hamas is free to do whatever they want in Gaza there is a problem. I understand the point you bring up about Israel but crap happens when you have a cowardly enemy hiding behind women and children and other innocent people.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 3, 2014 10:22 PM
Comment #381708

Hamas is an idea. Bombs cannot destroy ideas. It’s a rotten idea, but it still must be contended with. Only genocide or forced removal of the native Palestinian population will rid Israel of this idea unless Israel can somehow supplant it with a better idea. Unfortunately, settlements in Judea and Samaria as well as extremist rhetoric from Yisrael Beiteinu MKs preclude any such ideas from entering the minds of Gazans.

Also, it was very disingenuous for Israel to spend 3 weeks searching for teenage boys that were almost certainly dead. It was even more disingenuous to blame Hamas in Gaza without any evidence that the kidnapping/murder was actually directed from above and not simply the actions of a few rogue men. Up until this summer, Israel had enjoyed an unprecedented level of peace. Fewer rockets were launched last year than any year since 2001. It was completely asinine for Netenyahu to throw all that away just to score political points within Israel by stroking the anger regarding those three boys.

Posted by: Warren Porter at August 3, 2014 10:39 PM
Comment #381709

All radical Islamic factions are an idea which will never be totally wiped out. Fewer rockets were launched last year may be true but they were launched against Israel. The question is, How would you feel if your neighbor was launching rockets at you? Would you be so passive if it continued after so many cease fires? Would you be so passive if it was your family being terrorized?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 3, 2014 10:55 PM
Comment #381710

KAP,
“… how Israel is supposed to defend itself when Hamas hides behind women and children?”

If soldiers hide behind women and children, or on school tops, or in hospitals, it is unacceptable to solve the problem by killing the women and children, or bombing schools, or hospitals.

The US encountered that kind of problem in Viet Nam. The enemy would set up anti-aircraft positions on top of dams. So we did not bomb the dams.

That is how you tell the good guys from the bad guys. The good guys do not kill women and children, or bomb schools, or hospitals, or dams, not even to get the bad guys.

Think about the movies, KAP. When the bad guy takes a hostage, and hides behind a woman while holding a gun to her head, the good guy does not blow away the woman and the bad guy. That is considered a very bad outcome.

Warren,
The statement by the Knesset Deputy mirrors what you say in a roundabout way. Israel has gone too far down this road, and the Israelis have a terrible, terrible government in power. They are setting up Palestinian Bantustans, much like the South Africans did to make Apartheid work, but that failed, and so will this. What happened in Gaza was completely unnecessary, and killing over 1,000 civilians can only make matters worse, not to mention turning a densely populated city into rubble, crippling the only power station, and blockading the city.

The US needs to pull Netanyahu’s chain, and hard. That government needs to go, and now.

Posted by: phx8 at August 3, 2014 11:02 PM
Comment #381711

Yes phx8 the North Vietnamise had their rockets right in the middle of Da Nang until Nixon gave the go ahead to unrestricted bombing of North Viet Nam now didn’t he. So because an enemy hides behind women and children Israel is not supposed to defend itself? They’re supposed to just take rockets being fired on them killing women and children? phx8. The U.S. needs to stay out of Israel’s business phx8 and let them deal with Hamas. Aren’t you the one that keeps saying we are not the police force of the world. The fight between Islam and Jews has been going on for a very long time and will continue for a very long time more no matter what the U.S. or anyone else has to say about it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 3, 2014 11:27 PM
Comment #381712

KAP,
“The U.S. needs to stay out of Israel’s business phx8 and let them deal with Hamas.”

Yes. We need to stop supporting the Israelis. My point precisely. If anyone thinks what Israel just did in Gaza will benefit Israel, they are out of their minds.

“Aren’t you the one that keeps saying we are not the police force of the world.”

Not exactly. We have the largest, most powerful military and we dominate the world economy. We can count on many allies to act with us. While it is not up to us to police the world, I believe we do have a moral obligation to act in order to prevent genocides, or intervene when no other options are available.

We are not about to let the Israelis suffer another Holocaust or anything close. That does not mean we should go along with letting them do what they just did to the Palestinians.

Like it or not, the Israelis and Palestinians are going to have to find a way to come to terms. It is very hard, but it can be done.

Posted by: phx8 at August 3, 2014 11:48 PM
Comment #381713

NOT exactly, phx8, moral obligation???? What Israel did in Gaza and why is known only to them and we will only find out if Israel wants the U.S to know. What is reported in the media is usually one sided. Just think of what Pelosi said about Hamas being a Humanitarian group I don’t know where she got that from but it is laughable.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 4, 2014 12:06 AM
Comment #381714

If Israel’s solution to this problem is a “final solution” that requires the Gaza Strip as it is today be decimated and destroyed and the people scattered then they will encounter the same result as the Nazi Germans “final solution” for Jews. It will fail, miserably and with great cost of life. Interesting that the current Israeli support of the Israeli government’s action is very high, not unlike the support the Nazi Germans had for their actions at first. It would be in the best interest of the United States to simply cut all aid to the region and observe but that didn’t work in the 1940’s and it will not work this time. We were on the right side of history then but I am not so certain that we are this time. Time will tell but this can’t end good for any of the parties concerned. As it was in the 1940’s, a technological giant is no match for religious fervor even if the technology is combined with religious fervor. Doesn’t seem good for anyone.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 4, 2014 10:39 AM
Comment #381715

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice” Martin Luther King Jr.

Posted by: Speak4all at August 4, 2014 10:49 AM
Comment #381717

Islam and the Jewish nation have been at it, as I said in an earlier comment for a very long time and will continue for a very long time. Peace has been tried many times and failed many times. IMO there will never be peace in that region until the end.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at August 4, 2014 12:15 PM
Comment #381718
Islam and the Jewish nation have been at it, as I said in an earlier comment for a very long time.
The region was quite peaceful for at least 500 years between the crusades and the 19th century, but that was before nationalism became popular. Posted by: Warren Porter at August 4, 2014 2:13 PM
Comment #381719

I wrote; “According to Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, the Arab population in 2013 was estimated at 1,658,000, representing 20.7% of the country’s population.”

phx8 wrote; “Turkey has 20,000 Jews who are full citizens.”

Wow…he brags on Turkey as “a model of what a secular democracy can do.” And, I might add, Turkey, in both land and population, is a tad larger than Israel.

phx8 writes; ” The good guys do not kill women and children, or bomb schools, or hospitals, or dams, not even to get the bad guys.”

Really? Perhaps you have forgotten what the Allies had to do to get both Germany and Japan to surrender. Were we “good guys” then?

I forgot who wrote this…”Israel uses bombs to protect it citizens, in Gaza they use citizens to protect its bombs.”

Posted by: Royal Flush at August 4, 2014 3:48 PM
Comment #381720

phx8

“Like it or not, the Israelis and Palestinians are going to have to find a way to come to terms. It is very hard, but it can be done”

It will not be done, period.

You are absolutley ignorant about history and the culture of Hamas and other terrorists in the area.

They will not agree to any agreement where Israel is allowed to continue to exist. That is pure and simple. That puts you into a class with Sec. John Kerry and Obama. They are the same ignorant group.

Posted by: tom humes at August 4, 2014 4:31 PM
Comment #381721
I forgot who wrote this…
RF, That is a tweet from the IDF. The problem is that mowing the grass doesn’t stop the grass from growing.

Everyone,
Both sides have much blood on their hands. Trying to advocate that one or the other has the moral high ground is absolutely useless. In any case, I am truly unconcerned with the horrors that are taking place in Gaza; the Syrian Civil war is far more serious and will have far more profound consequences than Israel’s quadrennial mowing of the grass.

Posted by: Warren Porter at August 4, 2014 5:20 PM
Comment #381722

“Trying to advocate that one or the other has the moral high ground is absolutely useless.”

Warren,

Excellent summary.

Every US President in modern times has made genuine efforts to resolve the problem with little success. The intransigence of both sides is appalling. It is not just the Palestinians, it is also the Israelis.

Perhaps, James Baker, Sec. of State for President GH Bush got it right when he said in frustration to the Israelis: “Everybody over there should know that the telephone number is 1-202-456-1414; when you’re serious about peace, call us.”

Posted by: Rich at August 4, 2014 6:35 PM
Comment #381727

The most telling indicator regarding the lack of willingness to make peace is the amount of resources devoted to propagandizing in order to convince us that they hold the moral high ground. Stuff like those horrific photos of Gazan youth victimized by Israeli bombs or cartoons with an editorialized caption like the one that was reshared by Royal Flush. Both sides care more about making the other side look bad than they care about actually accomplishing any good by themselves.

The stories contained in both are true. Hamas could easily save Gazan lives if they permitted Gazans to utilize the same shelters afforded to Hamas militants. Likewise, the only way Israel can save more lives is by improving the Iron Dome defense systems. Offensive action in either case does nothing to serve the goals that either side ostensibly desires. Hamas’ rockets will never send Israelis back to Europe and bombs will never send Palestinians into other Arab countries.

Posted by: Warren Porter at August 4, 2014 8:04 PM
Comment #381728

There has to be some consideration of the fact the Gaza Strip is the most highly populated area in the world with over 4500 people per square kilometer.

The Israeli army is perpetuating the scenerio with the containment of refugees. The Palestinians are perpetuating this by refusing to allow Israel to even exist as a state.

This is more a British problem than it is ours. But, when the British army has more horses than tanks there are problems with them being able to back up their historical decisions.

Pre-British Israel used to be refereed to as Southern Syria and The Levant. Sound Familiar? Perhaps the vestige of British rule are being swept aside and the area is returning to the pre WW1 condition. Isn’t that something we have always considered a prerequisite to peace in the Middle East?

Posted by: Weary Willie at August 4, 2014 8:25 PM
Comment #381803

We know that Palestine was Overwhelmingly Arab, and then it became increasingly Jewish and decreasingly Arab, and History and Current Events show that Israel is in favor this trend, and Israel is occupying the Golan Heights that belongs to Syria.

We know for a Fact that Turkey and Iraq have what they termed as a Problem to various degrees with their Citizens of Kurdish Ethnicity.

Saddam Hussein was an American Puppet, and we know that Israel is an American Ally, as is Saudi Arabia.

We might never know if Saddam Hussein was ordered by America in 1988 to use American Supplied Chemical Weapons with Impunity on Iraqi Citizens of Kurdish Ethnicity.

Perhaps America ordered Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait in 1990, because President Bush Senior knew it would push up the price of Oil, and we know that Saudi Arabia sells Oil at http://www.amazon.com/House-Bush-Saud-Relationship-ebook/dp/B000FC1BKG .

Although the price of Oil did increase, it did not increase to the point of creating a Global Depression, but it gave America their Engineered Excuse to invade Iraq in the First Gulf War, and some of us have read Articles detailing how President Bush tricked Saddam Hussein into invading Kuwait, but Saddam Hussein may have been ordered to invade Kuwait by America.

America and some of its Puppets noticed that Saddam Hussein did not want to Resettle the Kurds in Iran or Syria, and some People think that this was the real reason for the Iraq and Iran war of 1980 to 1988, in order keep Turkey from leaving NATO, because Turkey was hoping to Resettle their Citizens of Kurdish Ethnicity to Iran.

Perhaps Turkey was persuaded to join NATO with the Secret Promise by America to Resettle their Citizens of Kurdish Citizens to Iran.

The reason that Syria could not be the first preference to Resettle the Kurds was because they are Arabs; whereas, the Iranians are Persians, and this would make it More Acceptable to the Arab World.

However, we know that Iraq and Iran ended that war in 1988, and America, Turkey, and Israel know that Iraq rather than Iran would have to be the second preference for any Resettlement Plan of Turkish Kurds after the end of the Iran Iraq war.

It looks like Iraq after Saddam Hussein left power did not go according to any Kurdish Resettlement Plan, and Syria would be seen by some People as the third preference to Resettle Turkey’s Kurds.

The Golan Heights of Syria could easily be Exclusively Reserved as the Region where Israel wants to Resettle its Citizens of Arab Ethnicity because of Egypt and Jordan, and Turkey’s Kurds would be given the rest of Syria.

Israel and Turkey have become friends, because the Turkish Prime Minister has Israel’s permission to go to Gaza and the West Bank at http://www.palestinechronicle.com/turkey-pm-erdogan-to-visit-gaza/#.U-dCZZSSx8F .

The Israelis have a saying that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and we have seen how Turkey and Israel have become friends after the Gaza Flotilla Raid by Israel a few years ago.

On 22 March 2013, in a long telephone exchange between Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Netanyahu apologized on behalf of Israel, and Erdogan accepted the apology, and Israel has Arabs and Turkey has Kurds.

Israel has Illegally Occupied the Syrian Territory of the Golan Heights, which may have Oil, Gas, Precious Metals, Precious Gems, and Rare Earth Elements, and large quantities of Underground Water in the Israeli Illegally Occupied Golan Heights.

The Golan Heights could be considered as a More Humane Final Solution for the Arab Problem in Gaza and the West Bank, and the rest of Syria could be considered as a More Humane Final Solution for the Kurdish Problem in Turkey, because the Armenian Genocide is fresh in People’s minds, and so the Resettlement of Palestinian Arabs and Turkish Kurds would be the preferred option to Genocide as a Solution.

Israel, along with its Allies has found Al-Qaeda Terrorist Partners who are willing to give up the Golan Heights to Israel if they become the Puppet Government of Syria.

This is the reason Al-Qaeda in Syria has the backing and support of Israel and Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and America.

Israel has read the Turkish Newspapers, which say that the Prime Minister of Turkey has ambitions of introducing a Presidential System of Government in Turkey.

Erdogan hopes to become President, but to do this, Erdogan needs the Votes of Turkey’s Kurds in a Referendum for a new Constitution, and Erdogan needs Kurdish Votes to become President.

The Turkish Prime Minister is holding Peace Talks with the Kurds, but if he becomes President, then it could be that the Only way for him or a future successor to win the Presidency could be to Resettle the Kurds to Syria.

Israel is not concerned with losing the Natural Resources of the Golan Heights, because they belong to Syria, but Israel will have gained Gaza and the West Bank, which will be more than enough ‘Consolation’ for Israel.

The Presidential System for Turkey may impede Turkey’s progress towards the European Union, but we can see by Serbia and its Province of Kosovo that the European Union is having Enlargement Fatigue because of its Economic Situation.

However, Turkey knows that it will gain far more by Resettling its Kurds to Syria than what Turkey could gain from the European Union, and Turkey knows they must be a Member of NATO for this.

It could be that Iran is being pressured to give up some land to create a Kurdish Homeland, because Iran is the first preference for any Resettlement of Turkey’s Kurdish Minority.

America would like to become better Allies with Iraq, and they may have Secretly Promised to let Iraq Resettle its Citizens of Kurdish Ethnicity to Iran, and we know that this will give more Oil to the Iraqi Arabs.

There could be People who think that Israel could go back on any Secret Deal it has with Turkey after Israel has Resettled its unwanted Arabs to the Golan Heights, but it will make no difference to Israel if Turkey’s Kurds are Resettled to the rest of Syria after the Palestinian Arabs have been first been Resettled to the Golan Heights, and Israel needs as many friends in the region for as long as possible, and I think that Israel knows that it is in their Interests to have friends in the region, and so it is highly probable that Israel will honor its Secret Deal with Turkey.

America has successfully used the Divide and Rule Method to Exploit and Destroy Countries, because whatever Unacceptable Disunity there is in a Country could easily be used as a Proxy by America to Deprive the Citizens of those Victim Countries their Most Basic Human Rights.

Posted by: Journalist at August 10, 2014 6:15 AM
Comment #382198

There are several Blogs on what is happening with the conflict involving the Israelis and the the Palestinians, and they are written from the Palestinians’ perspective, and they are at http://palestineblogs.com/ .

Most of the News Articles those Individual Blogs are on Israel and Palestine, but some like the Steven Lendman Blog have an Article on the recent events in Ferguson Missouri, and that News Article is Titled: Police Brutality in America at http://sjlendman.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/police-brutality-in-america.html , and his Website is at http://sjlendman.blogspot.com.au/ .

These Blogs give other People’s perspective on what is happening in that part of the World at http://www.ameu.org/getattachment/Current-Issue/Current-Issue/2013-Volume-46/Like-a-Picture-A-Map-is-Worth-A-Thousand-Words/postcards.JPG.aspx .

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