Federal Minimum Wage Increase: More Money for What?

Obama’s proposed increase of the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour may or may not see daylight in 2016. It’s too soon to tell. Although it gained serious steam during its introduction, Republicans have slowed its passage in Congress. It has its supporters, and it has its detractors, me being one of the later. Here’s why.


When I graduated college with an English teaching license in 2004, I had two degrees under my belt, a job already lined up and a optimistic twinkle in my eye. That twinkle didn't take long to fade, I promise. My starting salary was $29,000 a year. Adjusting for inflation, that comes out to $36,500 in 2014 dollars.

Contrary to what most people believe, teaching is a difficult job. Each day, and none of this is an exaggeration, I averaged six hours instructing, two hours grading, two hours planning lessons and another hour learning content. On the weekends I routinely spent another four to five hours grading/lesson planning. Since I often chose the 20-pay option (rather than the 26-pay option that continues through the summer) I cleared roughly an adjusted $1300 a check. That comes out to 120 hours a week, or $10.83 an hour. Rough math but reasonably close.

All my student loans, thousands of hours spent in classrooms, and all the continuing education needed afterwards to keep a current license...Obama's minimum wage increase teaches me I should have just donned a McDonald's uniform and served fries. I would have made almost as much, with far fewer headaches and plenty of job security. The fast-food industry is far less volatile than education since the extinction of the tenure system.

I don't mind the increased wage if the employee earns it, but I'm not convinced all the employees deserve it. I spent two years working at a fast-food joint in high school. While some employees are hard-working and deserve the increase, the majority are apathetic teenagers or 20-something slackers, who work just hard enough to keep from getting fired (like 70% of America's current workforce). Workers deal with abysmal rudeness in fast-food, but that doesn't compensate for the fact that it's a hard job only about half of the time.
This minimum wage increase is a fiscal way of stating that positions in essential industries like education and healthcare (among others) are as worthy of pay as asking if you want curly or regular fries.

Wow. That's a slap in the face.

Posted by TimBean at May 20, 2014 2:15 PM
Comments
Comment #378569

IMO an increase to $10.10 an hour would hurt the economy. Places like McDonalds would have to cut people or raise their prices. I don’t think those who advocate the raise especially those in congress who are only looking for votes, look at the cons which probably out weigh the pros.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 20, 2014 2:39 PM
Comment #378572


In the news that Switzerland has rejected a min wage of approx $24.70/hr which would been the world’s highest. The nation has no min wage on the books. Median hourly wage is about $37/hr.

Luxembourg currently has the highest min wage at $10.66, followed by France at $10.60, Australia at $10.21, Belgium at $9.97 and the Netherlands at $9.48.

They also rejected a $3.5B plan to buy several Gripen fighter jets. The Swiss are better at banking than in fighting it seems. The DOJ has levied a $2.6B fine on their 2nd largest bank for helping US citizens shelter bucks from taxes.

Posted by: roy ellis at May 20, 2014 4:31 PM
Comment #378586

As if our numbers in “no experience neccessary” jobs aren’t low enough, with a $10.10 increase this will hurt our minimum wage job market substantially. Who can afford it? I couldn’t afford to pay it and it pushes companies out of the marketplace due to shorthanded-ness.

This does however meet with the CLI (cost of living index) but a minimum wage job doesn’t mean you are entirely supported by it either. A minimum wage job is only part of the vehicle, the other part is your second job, side jobs or more overtime.

It’s a struggle and at best it can only mean more part-time jobs/positions in the marketplace and not full-time positions with any time-and-a-half overtime available. It’s a wonderous pipedream but it won’t work out. I hope it doesn’t pass because it would mean closings—not all companies are making this kind of money. What they are thinking about is the Michigan automotive industries or something—most companies aren’t that funded or expansive obviously.

So the question is thus; Do we want mostly part-time or mostly full-time employment in the United States? This new garnishment will lead to less full-time employment and not more. We really have to wedge our market wisely to get what we want here.

Posted by: simpleheaded at May 21, 2014 11:14 AM
Comment #378591

A change like this would create winners and losers. Some business models will survive by reducing labor force, some will be able to raise prices, and some will disappear. Large businesses like the one I work for won’t be impacted since minimum wage labor is minimal to our COGS. States have balanced budget requirements so they will have to shift something, and the Federal government will just increase debt.

In the end the economy will adjust to this just like anything else, and as long as you are one of the winners you will think it great. But I’m guessing most of us will be losers.

Posted by: George in SC at May 21, 2014 12:14 PM
Comment #378592

Reality is when mimimum wages are higher the economy may do better but there is no certainty in either position.
Perfect Example: Washington State

In Washington state, small businesses are adding jobs faster than any other state in the country, according to a report from Paychex and IHS. It’s also the state where minimum wage, at $9.32 per hour, is the highest{…} Not only was Washington the strongest state, San Francisco—with a minimum wage of $10.74, the country’s highest—had the greatest job gains in the past year among cities measured.
Also,
CBO finds that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 per hour would directly benefit 16.5 million workers. […]
CBO finds that raising the minimum wage would increase income for millions of middle-class families, on net, even after accounting for its estimates of job losses. […]
CBO also found that raising the minimum wage would lift 900,000 people out of poverty.
And the CBO admitted to using worst case estimate. The likely range is near zero net effect on jobs with major improvement to standards of living for millions of people. Too many people debate in their micro world of self or town. We are a nation of over 300 million people, individual experiences might be a good example, but there is no way to trust an expansion of one persons life to all.

Posted by: Dave at May 21, 2014 12:57 PM
Comment #378595

The real question, the one people don’t ask, is whether or not everybody is actually working on margins so tight that this can’t be afforded. It’s simply assumed that these companies, where executives have often multiplied their incomes many times over, have been balanced on the edge of profitability, and if they have to raise wages, they’ll be totaled.

Will they?

The relationship between wages and profits is more multidimensional, too, because money doesn’t necessarily just sit in one place, once a person gets it. Different income ranges contribute money back into the economy differently. A rich person keeps much of their windfalls, because there’s only so much they can or will buy before their basic needs are fulfilled, and the things they spend disposable income with have occupied much of their available time and attention. A poor person spends whatever they can get in order to survive the economic pressures at hand.

With today’s job market, I kind of take issue with the objection of the author. It made it much more difficult to get into a position of paying off my student loans. I had to put aside jobs that made around that much, because they just didn’t pay enough for me to handle my debts. I really want to pay those off, be responsible, but if I have to choose between eating and defaulting on a student loan, the choice is clear.

If you want people to pay back debts, to contribute money to the economy, to pay for bills regularly, etc, they need to have the money to do it.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 21, 2014 3:33 PM
Comment #378596

Minimum wage was intended to be a starting wage or one for people who have multiple incomes. It was never intended to be anything but a starting wage. IMO if the minimum wage is raised again and again where is the incentive to improve yourself? Wages go up, so do the prices of goods. Wages go up and McDonald’s $1.00 menu is now a $2.00 value menu or less people working there.

Posted by: RFich KAPitan at May 21, 2014 3:59 PM
Comment #378597

I think you exaggerate the scale of the shift.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at May 21, 2014 4:06 PM
Comment #378599

What a joke. With the exception of Stephen/Dave/Roy we seem to have a bunch of geezers saying that the minimum wage is just fine, not you phx8. I doubt if any of the geezers has had to live off a minimum wage in their lifetimes or at least the last 50 years of that life. I wonder why we don’t see real people who have to work for minimum wage commenting here? Could it be that there are to busy having to work 2 or 3 jobs just to get by and don’t really have time to comment on blogs. Seems we have a bunch of geezers who have nothing better to do with their time but to write comments on a blog about how it’s so much better to have either a very low minimum wage or better still no minimum wage. You guys need to get out more often. Try meeting people who have to work and earn a living instead of living off their laurels and investments, you might find out something that you don’t know. But then again you would have to have an open mind.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 21, 2014 4:44 PM
Comment #378601

Minimum wage is a symptom, not the problem.

Minimum wage needs to increase to keep up with the inflationary tactics of the Federal Reserve Bank and it’s debt drivin monitary policy. Debt driven monetary policy and fiat money is responsible for the minimum wage having to be raised every decade or so.

Minimum wage is a bouy used by government to keeps the masses’ head above water just enough to keep them from rioting while the Federal Reserve taxes the value of our money away from us and into their own pockets.

Posted by: Weary Willie at May 21, 2014 5:28 PM
Comment #378604

Doughty wrote; “With today’s job market, I kind of take issue with the objection of the author. It made it much more difficult to get into a position of paying off my student loans. I had to put aside jobs that made around that much, because they just didn’t pay enough for me to handle my debts. I really want to pay those off, be responsible, but if I have to choose between eating and defaulting on a student loan, the choice is clear.”

Get off your “pity-pot” Stephen. You choose the education you went into debt to secure. If the job market in that profession doesn’t pay much look to yourself to blame…not employers. You are simply reaping what you have sown.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 21, 2014 5:42 PM
Comment #378606

Speak wrote; ” Try meeting people who have to work and earn a living instead of living off their laurels and investments, you might find out something that you don’t know. But then again you would have to have an open mind.”

Another “pity-potter” in the same vein as Daugherty. When individuals take no responsibility to improve their lives with all the educational opportunities available combined with hard work it is difficult to assess blame to others or employers.

Your world view is tiny Speak. Your views are so typical of losers looking to blame others and expect government to put a livable paycheck in their pocket.

That many young people waste their education and have harmful propensities which limit or destroy employment opportunities is what our founders believed to be their right and their free choice.

And…the fool who squanders opportunity should not become a ward of the state.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 21, 2014 5:56 PM
Comment #378611

I lived on minimum wage for about a year, Speaks, when it was $3.35 per hour and with a family. Both my wife and I both worked at minimum until better opportunities came. I didn’t think of it as a lifelong thing. I did better myself finding work for much more than minimum wage. So this is one old geezer who has called your bluff, Speaks.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 21, 2014 9:03 PM
Comment #378614

Min wage increases are so that the unions can demand a new increase in their contracts. That is fairly simple to understand. This will further increase the poverty level that the left is so great in pontificating about their concern. Their concern is, in my opinion, as phony as a three legged chicken.

As has been stated above, the min wage is for entry level positions. Anybody who is using that type of pay scale other than entry level is not serious about getting ahead in life.

I know of a person who just graduated from a local college with a AA in welding. He is working a min wage as I speak. He also has a job interview for a firm that will pay him well above min wage. That is climbing the ladder of success.

Posted by: tom humes at May 22, 2014 1:28 AM
Comment #378617

I love all these “interpretations” from the right about the motivations behind some left wing conspiracy. Makes them feel better to believe that the left is as demanding of ideological purity as they are. The fact is, liberals have an idealism which includes a society that tries to make sure everyone has a decent standard of living. The left looks at the world and says we can do this and this to make it better by pushing gov’t to do things. Meanwhile todays conservatives have an ideology that says you, and only you, are responsible for where you are today and society can do nothing for you. They live in a world of parables and denial and actively try to prove that gov’t will fail by trying to make it fail.
Most recent example: The VA hospital problems, as opposed to #benghazi and #irs this is a real scandal. Shinseki begged congress last year for additional funding, the GOP ignored him (budget written by whom?). Now the republicans are crowing about how gov’t can’t do anything right when, in fact, they actually ensured the problems couldn’t get fixed.

Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 9:01 AM
Comment #378620

Dave says “by pushing Government to do things” Why do the left always have to rely on government? Can’t you do things on your own to make things better? Do you need Government to give you an education? Do you need government to find you a job? Is the left that dependent?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 22, 2014 9:19 AM
Comment #378622

Yeah geezers without a clue but are so all knowing that they can try to tell everyone what they need to do and how they need to live. High and mighty goofballs. No thanks.

Dave
Even stranger history to this VA thing. In 2003 when the drums of war were being beaten furiously by members of both parties. The Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff went before congress. This was prior to the disastrous move on Iraq. He warned Congress of the dangers of a prolonged war and the cost of service men and women that it would take. But the drums of war were being beaten so loudly that not to long after his testimony he was forced to resign. His name was Eric Shinsecki. So the guy that warned us about over using our military and incurring costs that we didn’t know would be caused by that, is now the guy being blamed for not handling 13 years of war and the damage that does to our military. The hypocrisy is astounding. I’m not sure if General Shinsecki is the right guy for this job but at the least we owe him a debt of gratitude and an apology that we did not heed his warning.

This same hypocrisy is evident in this thread about raising the minimum wage. You think some people could at least learn from their mistakes.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 22, 2014 10:13 AM
Comment #378623

Kap,

Exactly what I mean. The right only sees themselves, i.e. they live in a hyperbolic Randian glorification of selfishness. Let’s answer your rhetoric one by one:
Why do the left always have to rely on government? We don’t rely on it for everything, only for those things expected of them. Like enforcing laws, building and maintaining infrastructure, national and local defense, enforcing commercial laws, etc… We want to use the government as espoused in the founding documents: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men” Given our status as the most powerful nation on earth these pursuits are infringed upon primarily by the oligarchy (the top 0.1%) which owns 1/2 this countries wealth, not by the gov’t except as acting on behest of those few.
Can’t you do things on your own to make things better? Government is only one tool to make society better. I make my life better by using the society the gov’t enforces through its laws and working towards electing people to make those laws better for ALL of us.
Do you need Government to give you an education?Not me, personnaly, I come from a family with some resources and education. My dad got his M.D. from the GI bill. Some people don’t have resources like that. Equal opportunity for all is a purpose of gov’t and free education for all (state laws by the way) is an approach I absolutely support. In fact I want the US to be like Norway and provide free secondary education as well.
Do you need government to find you a job?Nope. But if I were unemployed a little help would be nice. Seems like a reasonable purpose of a government to provide such services.
Is the left that dependent? Nope. Not at all, but I know it makes many on the right feel better to believe that poor people are dependent but giving multibillionaires the opportunity to write the laws that give themselves corporate welfare and tax breaks is justifiable.

Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 10:35 AM
Comment #378624

Some of us who have had the good fortune and wherewith all to have acquired a comfortable economic and social level are not interested in pulling the ladder of success up behind us but would like to see at least a couple of more rungs added to the bottom of that ladder. Then there are other people who are hell bent on preventing poor people from getting anything for free that it clouds their decision making when it comes to just acknowledging the value of good pay for hard work.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 22, 2014 10:42 AM
Comment #378625

Speak4all,

I was watching when General Shinseki was asked (paraphrase) “What is your personnal opinion of how many troops would be required postwar?” He paused, restated the question emphasizing “My personal opinion?” , paused, swallowed, then answered “several hundred thousand”. Thisproved to be correct but was an order of magnitude more than the Bushies wanted us to believe. He gave up his career for that statement of truth but kept is honor, unlike Gen Powell. It will take much much more than this VA scandal for me to doubt his integrity.

Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 10:43 AM
Comment #378627

Dave, By what you wrote above your more right then you are left. I believe in helping the poor, that’s HELPING not supporting. I believe government should make and enforce laws, maintain infrastructure, national and local defense. I made my life better exactly as you did. I didn’t need government to find me a job or educate me. I don’t believe multibillionaires should have the right to write laws, or should get tax breaks. I believe people should have the right to do as they please as long as it doesn’t infringe on someone else’s rights or without government interference. I believe in limited government.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 22, 2014 11:52 AM
Comment #378628

Speaks, how many rungs must be added to the bottom of the ladder until it makes the ladder unstable?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 22, 2014 11:56 AM
Comment #378629

KAP
The stability of the ladder is not in question. What is in question is your god awful obsession with poor people getting free stuff. It is unhealthy and you really should think about that. Let’s just say enough rungs should be added to the ladder to help people less fortunate than you and I. I know you just want to argue, you cranky old geezer (you know I say that with my tongue in my cheek and going on 67 years and somewhat of a geezer myself) but I don’t think I am up for it today. You have an unhealthy obsession and I don’t want to contribute to that.

Posted by: Speak4all at May 22, 2014 12:19 PM
Comment #378630

KAP,

Actually according to this site I’m a liberal/libertartian(-3.6,-5.1). Perhaps you’re more liberal than you think? I am curious, it takes less than 5 minutes to do the test. What’s your score?

Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 12:28 PM
Comment #378631

As I stated speaks, I am all for helping the poor, I am against making them dependent on that support for their life. Helping them is one thing, making them dependent is another.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 22, 2014 12:43 PM
Comment #378632

Dave, -2.75, -0.92

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 22, 2014 12:59 PM
Comment #378633

Interesting. They should provide a list of answers for people for future comparison between stated policy positions and survey question responses.

Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 1:02 PM
Comment #378634

According to the test I’m probably a good representation of the “South Park Republican” but since I’m right of Hitler I guess Speaks would call me and old geezer.

3.25 -2.15

Posted by: George in SC at May 22, 2014 1:59 PM
Comment #378635

Dave wrote; “The left looks at the world and says we can do this and this to make it better by pushing gov’t to do things. “

I agree with your assessment of liberal philosophy. Sadly, you urge government to do “things” for people rather than for people to do “things” for themselves. In a nutshell, it defines the major difference between liberal and conservative.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 22, 2014 4:38 PM
Comment #378642
you urge government to do “things” for people rather than for people to do “things” for themselves.
What does that even mean, and how is it even related to my comment? Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 9:42 PM
Comment #378649

Interesting survey (1.5/3.08)

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at May 23, 2014 8:34 AM
Comment #378650

Royal, conservatives are much more authoritarian than you give them credit for. I have to disagree with your major difference between liberals and conservatives theory. I would suggest , using your terms- liberals urge government to do “things” for people whilst conservatives urge government to do “things” to people, is more accurate.

Conservatism as practiced, not preached, has given us unfunded medicare mandates leading to debt, wars fought on our grand childrens credit cards leading to massive debt, low expectations set and then delivered by conservative led government among others. The call to attacking Iraq for retribution against terrorist not associated with Iraq also comes to mind as an example of doing things to people.

BTW I’m “-2.75/-3.03” on this political scale.

Posted by: j2t2 at May 23, 2014 9:10 AM
Comment #378670

Correction (stupid fingers) 1.5/-3.08.

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at May 23, 2014 10:47 AM
Comment #378676

Dave wrote; “…pushing gov’t to do things. “

Dave writes; “What does that even mean, and how is it even related to my comment? Posted by: Dave at May 22, 2014 9:42 PM

Dave, it is your comment, you explain. You wrote that you expect government to do things that conservatives believe people can and should do for themselves. Is that difficult to understand?

It is no mystery why liberals want government to do ever more things for people who can and should do themselves. A population of mostly self-sufficient, well educated, hard working, well armed and religious people is very difficult to make fall under government tyranny.

A ward of the state is easily controllable.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 23, 2014 3:23 PM
Comment #378680

I have lived through the times of several increases in the minimum wage…I’m still here, the US is still here and the rich are getting richer while the poor get poorer. Spouting off about the evils of something that has happened before without harm to the economy is like peeing into the wind…it makes you feel better but you still get wet.

Posted by: David Stevens at May 23, 2014 11:10 PM
Comment #378682

I have to Dave but with each of those minimum raises I’ve seen raises in other goods and services. Take for example McDonalds $0.15 hamburger now well over $1.00. So my question , Where is that helping the poor if other goods and services go up with the minimum wage raise?

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 24, 2014 9:57 AM
Comment #378683

Exactly, Rich KAPitan! Why don’t they see it?

Every increase in the minimum wage is a reaction to inflation. It’s a band-aid put on the real problem of a debt driven monitary fund that makes the Federal Reserve richer and the poor poorer.

Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws.
Mater Amschel Rothschild, founder of the Rothschild banking dynasty. Posted by: Weary Willie at May 24, 2014 10:57 AM
Comment #378684

Dave writes; “I have lived through the times of several increases in the minimum wage…I’m still here, the US is still here and the rich are getting richer while the poor get poorer.”

Well Dave, doesn’t that tell you something? It doesn’t work as intended. Yet, liberals continue to insist their policies will help workers who are struggling rise out of poverty by mandating higher wages without changing anything else. Dave declares that the poor are getting poorer and I believe him. Why is that Dave? Who is holding them back? Is it some unseen force operating upon the poor that can’t be overcome? How do some poor rise above these impediments and others can’t find the way?

The fairytale that liberals continue to weave is that if we can just get the legislation right, all problems can be solved. No amount of legislation can change poor habits into good ones. Can replace sloth with diligence. Can replace self-imposed ignorance with wisdom.

Tyrants never change human nature, merely control or kill it. Societies have long sought, and have long been disappointed in their efforts to mandate equal results among unequal efforts.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 24, 2014 4:20 PM
Comment #378793

RF,

I’m a different Dave, but I’ll field this as addressed to me anyway.

You missed my intent…perhaps we merely speak a different language.

The US has survived through many hazards, both political and material. The rich were getting richer and the poor were getting poorer all along its merry path to greatness, and long before the minimum wage was instituted. The minimum wage has not effected our economy in any negative way…ever…period. It has always given a boost to the national economy as well as a step up for those who receive it. It may be a touch inflationary, but never draws recipients down as far as they had fallen before they got it.

You are right about the sloth, etc., but I’ll say to you like I’ve said many times to acquaintances who are prejudiced, as you seem to be for the poor, when all else fails and the problem persists, you can always just shoot them. It is obvious that neither ignoring them, nor putting them in debtor’s prison, or spoiling them is the cure, perhaps genocide? That seems to be the course you would take.

Personally I choose to help as well as I can, and hope those who take advantage and/or fall out the bottom don’t take me with them.

As a nation, as long as we can provide the help, it would be immoral, selfish and inhumane to do otherwise.

Capitalism does not include economic provision or solution. That is why our founders were wise enough to include a touch of socialism into the politics of our democratic republic.

Posted by: David Stevens at May 25, 2014 12:55 PM
Comment #378794

David Stevens, As I stated in an earlier post, Helping the poor is one thing supporting them is another. I know Royal, me and others believe in helping the poor. The question is how far do we go in that help? We have seen through history raising minimum wage has had little effect on cronnic poverty. The welfare program has created generations of recipients. What else is there to do if the poor want to remain that way dependent on government hand outs.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 25, 2014 3:03 PM
Comment #378795

Also another point, Dave and David Stevens. You want the minimum wage raised the equivalent of approx. $3.00 per hour. Yet those on S.S. get a 1% raise which is most cases is $25.00 per month. Minimum wage gets $25.00 per day yet the elderly retired get $25.00 per month???? Those are approx. examples which may vary.

Posted by: Rich Kapitan at May 25, 2014 6:53 PM
Comment #378796

RK,

How long since the last raise in Social Security?
How long since the last raise of the Minimum Wage?

How much of a percentage increase in Social Security since the last raise in Minimum Wage?

The minimum Wage is not geared to prevent poverty. It is geared to give those who have jobs and who work for a living to live in dignity.

Food Stamps, etc., are geared to prevent poverty…another program y’all seem to be against. Genocide? Just kill ‘em or let ‘em starve to death…right?

Posted by: David Stevens at May 25, 2014 8:54 PM
Comment #378797

D.S. The last S.S. raise was January and was 1.5%. Which for $1500 is $22.50 per month more. Many retired live on much less. What is it D.S. the retired don’t deserve to live in dignity. As I stated The minimum wage has little effect on poverty or the poor. Welfare has created generations of recipients. Also as I said I’m all for helping those in need NOT supporting them. I asked, How much is enough???????????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at May 25, 2014 9:42 PM
Comment #378804

We see it all the time. Exec’s receiving huge bonuses under controversial circumstances; the company lost money for that year, no change/improvement in customer products/services, A buys B and raises the cost to the consumer for the same or less product/value, and so on - - -

But, try to raise the min wage and the roof comes off - - - why is that? I’m way more willing to pay something more for a burger and fries than I am to pay more for a tv service where I don’t use but two or three channels.

It seems the more cost effective it becomes to produce a product the more the consumer gets charged. Take the digital world - - - land lines required real estate and high maintenance cost. Ringers and miles of copper wire need high current. The cost of digital stuff has been falling since its invention. Yet, when the nyquist rate goes up so do consumer prices. Yes, its faster but it cost less to provide the faster.

AT&T wants to buy into tv broadband which will serve only one purpose, to raise consumer prices.

When companies don’t have the smarts to innovate they turn to buying up their competition followed by a rise in consumer prices and so on - - -

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at May 26, 2014 4:39 PM
Comment #378805

Food Stamps, etc., are geared to prevent poverty…another program y’all seem to be against. Genocide? Just kill ‘em or let ‘em starve to death…right?
Posted by: David Stevens at May 25, 2014 8:54 PM

David, you have no right or cause to paint me, or any conservative I know, as folks who advocate starvation or genocide for the poor. That is an outrageous comment and not worthy of you as a sensible and caring person.

We know that poverty is not cured by government money. We have spent trillions and it has gotten worse. Capitalism has lifted more humans, around the glove, from the grip of poverty than any other “ism” I can think of including liberalism.

If government spending isn’t the cure for poverty, then what is? Changing the mind-set of those in poverty today, and for generations to come, must be the result of an enlightened public. A public that encourages and expects students to study those subjects that will provide a skill, those subjects that teach self-reliance and a regard for our history. A student who can neither read or write competently is immediately at a disadvantage when seeking work. A student who is drug addicted, or who dresses like a punk will not be attractive to a prospective employer. A student with poor study habits is not likely to have good work habits.

I am not suggesting a totalitarian approach, however a certain forcefulness combined with enlightened teachers and involved parents will help students greatly.

Government is not in the inspiration business. No one is inspired by a hand-out.

We always get more of what we subsidize. When we subsidize poverty we should expect more of it. The inspired leaders in education today seem to be despised by the left. We have examples of what is working well in many of our states. But, government refuses to recognize or promote what is working.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 26, 2014 5:05 PM
Comment #378806

Just an after-thought David. We must decouple education from the federal government to have any chance of succeeding in lowering poverty rates. We must depoliticize education. Too many parents are lulled into false confidence by thinking that government can produce better educational outcomes than they can as parents.

Posted by: Royal Flush at May 26, 2014 5:13 PM
Comment #378915

RF,

The private sector has always been able to provide a better education for the elite. There has never been a question about that. It is when we think children of poor parents or disadvantaged children that the private sector fails. There is no profit in educating poor or otherwise disadvantaged kids. The only real benefit to educating the vast majority of children in this country is to the people (nation as a whole). That is why is proper for those who can afford it to send their own children to private and/or parochial schools. But because uneducated children bring down the nation as a whole, it is imperative that all citizens foot the bill for public schools. It may not be fair, but it is necessary.

Posted by: David Stevens at May 30, 2014 11:30 PM
Comment #378933

“The fact is, liberals have an idealism which includes a society that tries to make sure everyone has a decent standard of living”

Then why don’t any of you open up a LibDonalds, pay your employees $15 or $20+ an hour with full benefits, and show us all how it’s done?
Why is it that liberals are so ‘good’ at dictating how everybody else lives, runs their business, pays their employees etc…, but yet are incapable of practicing what they preach?

The fact is, liberals us government to force others to pay for liberal ideas because liberals don’t want to negatively impact their own standard of living.

Posted by: kctim at June 2, 2014 12:38 PM
Comment #378953

It’s a shame that my post and the ideas it contained flew right over your head David.

Posted by: Royal Flush at June 2, 2014 6:32 PM
Comment #379011

RF,

If what you say is correct about Capitalism rising all boats, why do you think it got to the point we needed a national program to help bring folks OUT of poverty?

It takes an educated parent to home school.

A look at our history without acceptance of the place we started and comparing that to where we are is a futile exercise.

Our greatest moments have come when we were willing to mesh, as closely as possible, social order policies and mechanisms with the policies and mechanisms of Capitalism.

Once and for all Ayn Rand was a novelist…not an infallible seer.

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