The culture of poverty

Cultural problems” is a loaded term. But it is abundantly clear that poverty is created and maintained by a cluster of behaviors, attitudes and habits that we can generally identify. That is why just giving people money doesn’t help everybody, why poor lottery winners often end up worse off after a few years. I recall an old saying that some people are rich and others just have money. I suppose the reverse is also true, i.e. some people are poor and others just don’t have money.

It is ordinarily acceptable to say that education will help alleviate poverty and it is generally true that it will. But why? Education usually changes habits, attitudes and behaviors. That is why it works. The actual skills you learn will mostly be obsolete within a few years, but changes in habits and behaviors can last a lifetime. I got my MBA in 1984. There is probably nothing I learned, besides maybe basic accounting, that I could just apply today w/o big modification. But the habits and attitudes I learned made me want to keep up.

We have to make a distinction in how we use the word culture. If we mean arts, music, literature etc, we really cannot and should not make firm value judgements. But if we mean habitual behaviors and attitudes, we certainty can judge against outcomes. For example, if my goal is to be healthy, you can tell me that smoking, drinking and a sedentary lifestyle are the wrong ways to achieve it.

Presumably, nobody's goal is to be poor, dishonest or unhealthy. We can clearly see that some behaviors lead to these negative outcomes. Behaviors can be taught and learned. This has been going on since pre-humans developed "culture." All culture is borrowed from others and those borrow faster adapt and succeed better. None of us has the behaviors or habits that our grandparents would have found most useful. As conditions changed, so did we. We hope that we preserved our core values, but the habits and behaviors that support those values need to change all the time.

Even today, many Americans are only a generation or two removed from poverty. We remember grandparents (maybe great grandparents) who lived in what today would be abysmal poverty on isolated farms, or immigrants who arrived in America with almost nothing, no connections and unable to speak the language. Why didn't they stay poor? America of a century ago had few of the programs we have today to help them adjust.

I don't think we will ever eliminate poverty because what we call poverty changes. Poverty used to mean having nothing and running the risk of dying of hunger. This sort of poverty has largely been eliminated from the U.S. and is being addressed worldwide. In the last twenty years, nearly a billion people have been lifted from extreme poverty. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578665-nearly-1-billion-people-have-been-taken-out-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim?zid=301&ah=e8eb01e57f7c9b43a3c864613973b57f. But as we achieve more, we want to achieve even more. This is as it should be. But it gets more complex and continued progress depends more and more on behaviors and habits.

Posted by Christine & John at March 22, 2014 10:59 PM
Comments
Comment #377439

You have to know what’s available to be able to utilize it. If you don’t know it’s there, there’s no way you can think of it.

It’s like reading a book. You don’t have to memorize every paragraph of every page to get the most out of a book. You can look up what you want to reference and put that information to use, but you can’t look it up if you don’t know it’s there. To do that you have to read the book. Even the table of content and the index aren’t complete. You have to read the entire book to know what’s in it.

Poverty can be the result of a lack of education. Opportunity is missed because it is not known. The ability to access opportunity isn’t learned. They haven’t read the book on opportunity. What they have learned keeps them in poverty.

If the majority of people in poverty are educated in the public school system then it only stands to reason the public school system is failing. It is not providing a complete picture of what people need to get out of poverty. We can throw money at the problem and expect it to go away as we have for the last 50 years, or we can identify the problem and get to the root of it to solve it once and for all. Remember, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 23, 2014 11:38 AM
Comment #377440

Willie - teach a man to fish and he will just sit at the lake all day drinking beer.

I agree it is a matter of education, but education that changes habits and behaviors. W/o that, it is all for nought. We should help the poor become not poor, but know that it is not our fault that they are poor nor can we help them w/o their active cooperation.

Posted by: CJ at March 23, 2014 1:59 PM
Comment #377441

At least he’ll not be a burden. He’ll also learn how capitalism works while acquiring the beer!

You can’t force people to change their habits and behaviors easily. Education would allow people to make the choice between their current situation and an alternative educated position.

Our current way of “helping” the poor isn’t helping them at all. Keeping someone dependent on government handouts subjects them to a life of dependency. The problem seems to be those that are dependent on government handouts are unaware of alternative ways to support themselves. They also have no motivation to do so. The current education system is at fault in both regards.

Posted by: Weary Willie at March 23, 2014 3:01 PM
Comment #377442

Weary

I am not sure how much we CAN help others. Some people are just screwed up. I don’t know why. The best you can do is keep them from bothering others. I don’t think this applies to MOST people, BTW, but I think we should never expect to have success with everybody and not feel bad if there are still poor people around us if it is those screw ups.

Posted by: CJ at March 23, 2014 5:12 PM
Comment #377444

A WaPo article today relates that 41% of US children are born out of wedlock, nearly half of all first births are to unmarried mothers, as are 54% of Hispanic and 74% of black births.

And, we know that the number of workers today are equivalent to the work force of the 60’s.

Sounds like we lost the ‘war on poverty’, IMO.

Otherwise - - -

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Comment #377450

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Posted by: benita at March 24, 2014 9:37 AM
Comment #377456

wait, wait, benita. Do you know where flight 370 is??

Posted by: roy ellis at March 24, 2014 10:01 PM
Comment #377458

Willie,

“If the majority of people in poverty are educated in the public school system then it only stands to reason the public school system is failing.”

Sorry but in your scenario, a+b does not equal c.

The majority of people in this country, poor or otherwise, have been educated in the public school system.

Are the majority of people in this country in poverty?

It would stand to reason that if the vast majority of people educated in the public school system are not poor, then the problem is perhaps something other than the public school system.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 25, 2014 6:09 AM
Comment #377460

So-called “cultural problems” are nothing more than excuses used to discourage personal responsibility and dismiss individual failure by shifting fault.

Posted by: kctim at March 25, 2014 10:05 AM
Comment #377468

“Oh Boy: Rumsfeld Says A ‘Trained Ape’ Could Do Better Than Obama In Afghanistan”

I guess that’s because we have a monkey in the WH. This comment comes after the governor of Wisconsin dared to use a bible verse on his twitter account.
God help us with the intolerance of the left.

And then we have Nate Silver (the darling pollster of the left) is now on the left’s shit list for predicting a huge democrat loss in November.

“Nate Silver Predicts GOP Senate Win, Democrats Promptly Freak Out”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/24/nate-silver-gop-senate_n_5020271.html

Posted by: concerned conservative at March 25, 2014 4:05 PM
Comment #377470

con,

Maybe it’s just me, but perhaps if dear Rummy had a plan beyond the fall of Baghdad, we wouldn’t have had to wait years before, or even have needed the “surge”.

Afghanistan could have been handled in a more timely manner, Rumsfeld would be more than a mere footnote in history, and we wouldn’t even need to have this conversation.

Rocky

Posted by: Rocky Marks at March 25, 2014 8:43 PM
Comment #377471

Rocky Marks, you make a valid point. It is true the vast majority of people in general are educated in the public school system. It is a monopoly after all. So it isn’t fair to say the education system in general is failing and keeping people in poverty. But then again, the public school system isn’t a cookie cutter, exact replica of a single entity, is it?
Poverty Is Rooted In US Education System, Research Finds


Posted by: Weary Willie at March 26, 2014 12:44 AM
Comment #377478

No comments on the governor’s comments or Nate Silver’s predictions.

Perhaps you could tell us why democrats are being advised to run from obamacare as fast as they can?

Posted by: concerned conservative at March 26, 2014 1:16 PM
Comment #377480

There is an old newspaper article written by Benjamin Franklin in 1766 in England. It was about the imposition of an export on grain to other parts of Europe who had endured a major drought because that exportation caused the local price of grain to rise. In order to keep the grain cheap, the block was put in place so that local manufacturing and others, including the poor could have lower grain prices.

This is an exerpt from the end of that article… Upon reading it, it would appear that Franklin was a mean-spirited hater of the poor, selfish. Of course, knowing of everything that Franklin did to help the poor and establish American hospitals and his anti-slavery causes, it’s obvious that he wasn’t. But had he been alive to day and written that, it would be an ugly time for him in this political climate…

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavors to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.
Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2014 4:07 PM
Comment #377481

How is it possible that this country had such great Founder’s and coming from such a small population?

I like that part about ‘endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights’.

Today, our pols are ‘endowed’ by say, DOW chemical as they protest the idea of selling lotsa gas to the UKraine.

Otherwise - - -

Posted by: roy ellis at March 26, 2014 4:26 PM
Comment #377482

We have some pretty good men now, but they are drowned out and shouted down by emotive rhetoric…

A good example is that of the late Harry Browne.

“Government is good at one thing: It knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, ‘See, if it weren’t for the government, you wouldn’t be able to walk.’” – Harry Browne

The problem as I see it is that we abandoned the Age of Enlightenment with the Age of Romanticism. Meaning we strayed from the idea of the individual and living logical, reasoned lives, decisions based on the employ of critical thought to one based on emotion and rhetoric and win at any cost attitudes without any regard for the consequences of those actions.

An example of that is that critical thought isn’t even taught in our public schools anymore. Some people encounter it in college, if they are lucky. IMO that should be the first thing taught to young people as soon as they are able to process this type of information (6th grade perhaps?) because that will help them discern information going forward for everything else, allowing them to learn better on their own and not have to be spoon fed as much information and possibly have more of a desire to learn more…

But perhaps that is just too logical? Hard to indoctrinate people when they have the ability to question the BS.

Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2014 5:31 PM
Comment #377483

Another quote, which is very true (as you can see in my comments in the middle column)…

“It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.” – Charles A. Beard
Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2014 5:41 PM
Comment #377484

Another quote, which is very true (as you can see in my comments in the middle column)…

“It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence.” – Charles A. Beard
Posted by: Rhinehold at March 26, 2014 5:59 PM
Comment #377542

I think you CAN, in fact, throw money at a problem and the problem goes away.

I think it falls summarily into two factors—MONEY & MANAGEMENT. If you can get he multiangled management down pat, throw money on top being that the safety-net is there. It will not be perfect but it is out of the way. There is something to be said for “okay and improving”. That is just how the world works alot of the time, sadly as you might state. Elitisme will not win, socio-attitudinally yes, factorally no, “Okay and improving” wins. Mediocrity rules the day and that’s just life.

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