The Patriot Fast
Being a former doomsayer myself, I thank God for the eyes to see.
In order to mobilize the patriots of America we must begin on common ground. To be a patriot, you must love America for its own sake, for how it came to be, and for the radical notion of liberty that it was. If you love America because we are becoming more and more like your values system, then you don't love America for herself, you love her for yourself. Your loyalty is a reflection of your agreement, a mere nodding of the head, and no such patriotism stands long under the crushing weight of conflict. If you love America as a patriot, her origins are a reason to love her, and her current plummet into communism is reason to love her more. I believe you have no ground to criticize a thing unless you love it like a patriot. You can complain and chastise and scream and even insult, but the right to offer up the ways in which it must be improved are the province of the lover only. All else fails the test of investment. Someone may criticize your spouse, but the spouse need only value it from you. You see them for both their strengths and their weaknesses, and don't love them more for one and less for the other. So it is with all things.
Therefore, it is to the true American patriot I address this essay. I will attempt to offer a solution to the problems that beset our nation, instead of adding another voice to the chorus of complaint.
I imagine our American heritage, and the energy and moral strength we draw from it, like the bulging backs of aged warriors, chained in an arena and being made to fight society's sins for show, so the audience can feed upon the spoils of our victories and the spectacle of our efforts. The spectators, ravenous not for food but purpose, release beast after beast for us to battle: pride; for tolerance, envy; for success, gluttony; for distraction, sloth; for virtue, lust; for danger, greed; for excess, and a tentacled levitation of wrath; for God.
We are weary, but the spectators are hungry. Our numbers shrink but theirs grow. Our backs bend while their fingers straighten.
Make no mistake the forces of evil in this world are winning. Earth is fallen as man is fallen. We live in the province of the enemy. But take heart, because darkness never cloaked the Colosseum so thickly that sunrise never came. The enemy's ticket takers are roving the stadium aisles as doomsayers and fear-mongers. Those ruinous men, about one in every dozen, who foretell the end of the world is near. They take great secret pleasure in "being sorry to say all is lost." They encite the mob to shout at us from the safety of the grandstands phrases like "we are nearing the cliff," and "we are over the cliff and falling," and "trainwreck," and "armageddon," ad nauseum. The problem with these metaphors is that everyone dies together at the end of them, and that is not going to happen in America. Everyone dies in a trainwreck, or by going over a cliff. The conservatives wouldn't walk away from a liberal trainwreck, and vice versa. These ideas are planted in the hearts of men with a penchant for schadenfreude by the enemy, and they keep us in line. Oh we, the working warrior patriots of America, of little faith.
I offer another metaphor, and none more fitting so close to Black Friday. We are simply drunk. Utterly trashed in actuality.
I watched a video compilation of Black Friday insanity the following Monday and each scene looked like poor footage from a movie set where actors were told to portray the love child of a drunken jackass, and a mindless zombie. It was truly chilling to watch people swarm around, and cry out in ecstasy, over being able to receive... a stapler.
For generations, we have become more and more intoxicated by our own decadence, and increasingly less charmed by it. As we edge God out of our culture, we edge our purpose out with it, and no amount of excess can fill that void. America now offers what God intended as the reward for hard work, with little to no work at all. Our parents, and their parents, going back to the greatest generation, failed to train huge numbers of American youth what our values are and how vitally important is the character only found in the arena of life... in the battling of our individual sin. Instead, we have lived well off the fruits of the baby boomer, who inherited the work ethic but not the moral ethic. Work hard and love your neighbor, became "work hard, play hard." Then lately it seems, they just dropped the "work hard" altogether. It's just "play hard" now. Get while the getting is good. Find your fun.
I say again, we are drunk.
Drunkenness is not a fixed state, it comes like temperature, in degrees. One may be a little goofy, or a tad louder than normal, but a great deal of time and consumption separates the reddish cheeks of these first two, with the great retching we hear and see each day on the news.
The majority of people in America today, these chronic moral inebriates, simply do not know what it means to love this country as a patriot. They want to make America into a thing they can someday love, when cleansed of its Judao-Christian values. We cannot give America over to them. You must love them as you would love a spouse, or a friend, who has had far too much to drink, and is retching, while at the same time beckoning another beverage.
You might say "No, you've had enough," but the America we love has developed quite an addict's tolerance, and they will not listen to any voice insulting vice. A raging alcoholic, America screams, and throws a drunken tantrum as it stumbles, but all is far from lost. We will fall down, but not perish.
Do not buy into the end of the world. Every generation since Jesus has read his return into the tea leaves of current events... every single one. America is not going to die, but she is going to have one hell of a hangover. It will come with headaches, and pain, and suffering, and even more retching, but it will be a cleansing process, not a dying process. As anyone who has loved someone who has obviously drunk too much, you can hardly stop them soon enough. The challenge now is to understand that to stop them, we must stop trying to take away their beverage. We must get completely out of the way and allow them to pass out on their own. We must turn the other cheek, not in weakness, but in wisdom. We must quit buying their booze.
I call on the Patriots of America to fast. Our country only functions on the lifeblood of our efforts. It is we who foot the bill. To not pay our taxes is a crime, yet no law exists to minimize our own earnings, and our spending. To fast. If you are self-employed, as I am, you pay a tremendous amount of money for the privilege of working half-days, and you also get the luxury of picking whichever 12 hours you like. Understand this is a choice. You could likely get by with far less, and have far more time with your family. Now is the time for such an exercise. The practice of fasting is a gift, and was originally used as a reminder to pray each time you felt the pang of hunger. The Patriot Fast is the same. Each time we feel the need or want of another thing, or another toy, or another experience... instead remind yourself to be thankful, and abstain. There are an infinite variety of ways to implement the Patriot Fast depending on your family's situation but to help spark your imagination, here are a few:
Go on a complete consumer holiday and buy nothing that is non-essential. Choose a hobby that requires your time instead of your money, I recommend geocaching. Read great literature instead of buying movies. The possibilities are limited only by your commitment to this vision, and your imagination.
The system cannot survive for more than a year or two if enough Patriots decide to stop feeding the government beast and instead, speak with their cheek. In a way, it's a much more difficult fight when you are swinging the sword of self-discipline, to fight our own urges, to battle our own sin, but it's past time to do so. It's time for the hangover to begin.
Now is the time for the Patriot fast.
Posted by Yukon Jake at December 5, 2013 5:56 PM
My inspiration for this essay can be found here.
The creation of welfare and entitlements, like a roads to hell, are paved with good intentions. I believe 95% of all long-term welfare recipients share this ideology.
The other 5% deserve it, and will get it from their churches and neighbors during, and after the hangover.
Boycott America until it comes to its senses is an interesting proposition. Patriots on Strike would be awesome.
So, the country that started the age of the consumer economy (Henry Ford) should now stop consuming? We should now destroy the very engine of our economic growth. I fail to grasp how that could be patriotic. Sounds more like suicide to me.
Now, if the author were advocating smarter consumption, more responsible management of household finances or more investment in productive endeavors, I might agree. But, thinking that you are patriotic by impairing the very engine of our economy for the past 100 years.
didn’t finish a sentence. “…by impairing the very engine of our economy for the past 100 years”, is simply crazy.
It is a controversial idea, I understand, but when faced with the proposition, what else is the conservative to do? Abandon our values and continue feeding the socialist government beast?
To continue that course (for a patriot) is Einstein’s definition of insanity.
I’ll just keep working my butt off, paying gobs of taxes, while the government uses that money to buy the votes of the rapidly expanding population who is happy to sit on their butts and live off the system.
Yes, I contend it is the only course left to the people in society who are willing to work. We must work less, produce less, consume FAR less, and give every dime we make above and beyond our basic needs to charity. We must massively and intentionally diminish our taxable income and expenses.
Should the productive workers in this country become less productive it would end liberal government as we now know it.
We, the Patriots who work hard now, or in the past, and ask nothing from government but to be left alone, provide that which government wishes to take and redistribute to others.
The very people and companies that liberals despise write the checks that keep them alive.
An interesting metaphoric approach, Yukon, but not at all practical, IMO. We are a more complex populace just to be labeled decadent and daid headed.
Let’s forget, for the moment that corpocracy is the driving force for our internal problems. Let’s point to some very natural evolution processes going on within the economy.
Gov’t has grown so large as to be highly inefficient and unmanageable. A low level bureaucrat makes a decision and there are 60 layers of bureaucracy to convince the decision is the right one. Gov’t legislates for more federal spending without proper enforcement and oversight. Gov’t doesn’t know how tax revenue dollars are spent but will work to raise taxes to keep the system operational. The Fed’s have way too much influence and authority over state govt;s.
It seems reasonable that due to longer life spans some reform of SS must be undertaken. We have fewer workers now than in 1964 paying into the SS system in support of seniors who are living much longer, many into their 90’s. This impacts HC cost, exacerbated further by bringing some 10M newcomers into the insurance pool. 100K more doctors will be needed by 2020 to take care of babyboomers and newcomers.
Then, there are the monopolies/conglomerates that work to knock off competition, strangle innovation. Noteworthy that any wealth increase over the last decade or two has gone to the top 10% while wages have fallen some 20% for the working folks. Computer related technology and robotics development have displaced millions of workers. Companies are working to deliver pizza and packages with drones. McDonalds is taking orders via a tablet, cutting out the the order clerk and so on. This depresses wages while gov’t is working to bring in millions more workers to compete for scarce jobs.
Then there’s the $17T going to $25 and a number of other things not covered here.
Not saying we are going to crash, Yukon. But, it does make me so nervous you couldn’t drive a needle up my butt with a ten pound sledge hammer and so on - - -
Otherwise - - -
Forgot the solution - - - there is always a solution, IMO.
one, stand up a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att …
(this approach is guaranteed to ‘git er dun’)
two, force congress to abide by the Constitution and their sworn oath of office. Recognize the peoples right to Article V Convention as a pathway to reform.
(would provide some reform but a long drawn out process)
Three, vote incumbents from office in large numbers.
(probably not sustainable and thus, not very effective for the long term)
That’s just it Roy, the SYSTEM is broken. Both establishment sides answer to their campaign financiers and huge business interests and could care less about we the people.
You suggest something that requires a leader, and a massive group of people to support that particular leader, in a system where the challenger to the status quo, I don’t care if it is Raplh Nader, or Ron Paul, or Alan Keyes, or whoever - that doesn’t tow a party line has his character assasinated regardless of merit.
We fund this lunacy.
I contend, that we must defund the system, and when it is no longer an option to play the game in the old way, a leader who can be trusted to adhere to, and revert to the respect of, the constitution will emerge.
Voting out incumbents as a strategy is foolishness because all you do is change the system’s laundry much faster than usual. You trade the Devil you know for the Devil you don’t.
You call my idea crazy and then one-line an approach that sounds good on its face, but has been tried and will ALWAYS fail because the working men and women and small business owners of society fund the system that keeps it from succeeding.
It’s time for the Patriot Fast.
Yukon, I think it would be as easy to gin up a 3rd party as it would be convince enough people to withhold on spending. People can cut back on some things but still have to purchase some things like food, energy, insurance, HC and so on - - -
Just take a look back as to the effect of recessionary spending. People did cut way back even as the stock market rose toward the historical high we have now.
Consider the current situation where we have this historical high with something like 15-20% unemployment. Where 25% of workers make below the poverty level and there is little support to raise the minimum wage.
The corporate world is so strong, insulated, and protected by gov’t that even if 50% of the population had no income the corporate world would continue growing. Global corporations can use their mobility to whack the worker down, depress wages and so on - - - Patriot Fasting would hve to be implemented on an international scale to have any real effect, IMO.
Within a year I would expect you could walk into a fast food joint and order your meal on a touch screen, etc. We have far more workers than needed while the corpocracy works to depress wages further, getting us ready for the NWO, by running in millions of immigrant workers.
The folks advocating for AVC haven’t caught on fire.
VOID hasn’t taken off with still 80-85% OF incumbents being returned to office.
No 3rd party’s out there blazing any new trails.
I agree somewhat, that we need a firebrand leader but, people don’t place their trust in anything political anymore.
That’s why I believe we need a grass roots effort to gin up a new 3rd party w/a/dif/pol/att founded in some rules that would give the folks something to believe in, to be for, etc. In short order a leader could be found to represent that party.
Indeed, I hope just another 3rd party never sees the light of day.
Otherwise - - -
I admire your passion. And though I am diametrically opposed to Liberalism and “Progressivism,” I believe people — Americans or not — can make their own choices.
If progressives want to start another radio network, let ‘em. I believe in choice. Period. And I’m an equal-opportunity criticizer.
And even though I think the small amount of aggressive, rude and desperate people who knock each other over and even assault one another are crazy, it’s their choice. The authorities will arrest ad nauseum, those who flout our laws, as needed.
Btw, did you ever notice that the majority of those ‘fighting’ during the Black Friday MMA Olympics happen to be women? Weird.
In a word, I despise proselytizers of all stripes. I guess I’m sounding kind of like a Libertarian. But, alas, I am not a true ‘L’ — as I’m a ‘Hawk’ who believes in a strong global presence, not appeasement and isolationism.
Yukon Jake, your essay is a breath of fresh air. A solution to a difficult problem.
If someone offered you a million dollars, would you take it?
That would be difficult to turn down and this woman does makes a point. She’s got a golden goose called the government and she thinks people who work are fools. She also has a bureaucracy coming to her and offering her more money, more benefits. It’s too easy for her to get this “help”. All it cost her is a vote, or two. It didn’t seem like her self-respect is suffering. She has no reason to change. It’s up to the payers to solve her problem for her.
Starve the beast. I’ve said that before. I can’t understand why people sit around and complain about our government and then give it money all year long. The idea of paying more in taxes thrughout the year to get a large tax return is stupid. They are letting the government use their money tax free for the entire year. They could achieve the same results and earn interest on their money with a direct deposit into a savings account every pay period. Taking that money out of the economy would also increase the dollar’s worth if enough people saved.
I enjoyed reading your post. Thanks alot. I hope readers listen to that woman’s participation in her government facilitated destruction and take heed. It will eventually destroy her when Democratics run out of other people’s money. I wouldn’t want to be in her position when it happens.
Thank you for the kind words. I really felt led as I wrote it, and this past week has been the first time that I have had a peace about all the garbage I see and specifically what I need to do in this country in order to return to some semblance of sanity.
I just hope it is catching.
To be a patriot, you must love America for its own sake, for how it came to be, and for the radical notion of liberty that it was.
How fitting that you start by exclusion Yukon. We either have to drink the koolaid or we are not real patriots, How silly can you get. We must yearn for the days of slavery, of only the land gentry voting, we must exclude anyone else. We must believe the founding fathers, the same founding fathers that created the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and the Bill or Rights wanted freedom and liberty for only the businessman and the corporations they create. Yet they didn’t mention corporations once in these documents.
I believe you have no ground to criticize a thing unless you love it like a patriot.
IS it patriotism or nationalism you speak of Yukon? Hard to tell the difference. Kinda scary that your views are much more nationalistic that patriotic IMHO. IMHO a “real patriot” isn’t such an extremist and can look realistically at where we as a country are today.
As we edge God out of our culture, we edge our purpose out with it, and no amount of excess can fill that void.
God isn’t being edged out Yukon, just because other religions and faiths (to include atheism) have enter into the lives of many Americans. Perhaps it is the religious that have decided Jesus wantedprosperity for his flock and decided greed is good that has caused this Black Friday weirdness. The zealous often go to extremes don’t they.
The majority of people in America today, these chronic moral inebriates, simply do not know what it means to love this country as a patriot. They want to make America into a thing they can someday love, when cleansed of its Judao-Christian values.
It is always us versus them when it comes to extremist thought isn’t it Yukon. It’s funny that “Patriots” blame the Communist that we have become even as the corporations buy more and more of our representation in Government due in part to “patriot” led SCOTUS decisions that tell us money is free speech.
I call on the Patriots of America to fast. Our country only functions on the lifeblood of our efforts. It is we who foot the bill.
Shades of Ayn Rand and John Galt, Yukon.
Once again here we see the extremist telling us it is only themselves that work and the rest of us are excluded from the group. Hog wash Yukon.
DO patriots notice the irony here? We are gonna hurt the commies by hurting the retailers, the capitalist, who depend upon Christmas for a good year for their shareholders. Why exactly is it Yukon that all Americans shouldn’t fast along with the “patriots”? Because many of us are different than you?
So let me get this straight Yukon, your inspiration for this same tired old conservative mythology is based upon some women calling into a conservative talk radio station in Texas to brag about how much she gets from welfare? Did you notice anything suspicious about that whole thing? Did you question at all if it was someone just making stuff up?
Happy Holidays and Season’s Greetings to you and yours! You have convinced me to give and give, even more than I planned this year. I’m just glad this is “our country” and not “your country”. You see in “our country” we don’t have to pay any attention to your misgivings about giving and we can take great pride and pleasure in using what we have to try to make life better for someone else. We really don’t care that you will approve or not of this and we will continue to appreciate everything this great nation has to offer, especially at this time of year.
Sometimes I wonder if argument from the left is argument for argument’s sake. The left are Tellerites. They simply have to argue.
For instance, the definition of a patriot is a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion. But, expressing that devotion results in criticism from the left. They think devotion to country/patriotism is “silly” and “drinking koolaid”. Then they bring up 150 year old, dead, politically extinct arguments to defend their point of view. They have to make stuff up to make their point. Stuff like writing the constitution to protect corporations. There’s a reason corporations weren’t mentioned in the constitution. The founding fathers despised corporations and wanted nothing to do with them.
j2t2 uses a video of the “real patriot” to criticize this post. Most of the speakers in the video go with the flow, “drink the koolaid” as it were, and respond to the questioner with platitudes, much like j2t2 expects Yukon Jake to do.
How fitting that you start by exclusion Yukon.
But j2t2 uses the one person in the video who faces reality as an example to criticize the post. The total lack of logic in using that video to make his point is beyond my reasoning. Yukon Jake is much like the video person, the one dissenting voice pointing out the obvious. Yet,j2t2 uses the video person’s response in an attempt to discredit this post. It makes no sense! Are you for it before you are against it, j2t2?! Or, is your Tellerite showing?
Some of the founding fathers were Unitarians, but they didn’t go around insisting crosses be taken down and hidden, or the word God be stricken from everything government related. This is a proved fact demonstrated by the many references to God, the 10 commandments, etc, on many of the government buildings. Today, atheists have a very thin skin and are easily offended by words and symbols. They make up false arguments to protect their thin skin and fragile mentality. It is, in reality, a purge of religion from the public eye masked by superficial and childish arguments.
Ayn Rand saw what Communism did to her family and country with her own eyes. She saw it happening here in the U.S., her chosen sanctuary from socialism. Her book was a warning no one heeded. She died an angry and sad person when it came to what her adopted country was turning to.
j2t2, that last link did more to reinforce the so-called myths than it did to disprove them. The article was not the least bit convincing. I was raised in a community dominated by the Democratic party throughout my life. I see the welfare cheats every day. I see the government condone the cheating, promote the cheating in an effort to garner favor from the voters. I listen to people sitting in bars, drinking their liquor, complaining about those evil republicans taking the food out of the mouths of their babies. They make excuses as to why they can’t live life without an Obamaphone, how it’s much easier having free lunches and breakfast at their kid’s schools because they don’t have to make it for them. Just like the person in the radio conversation, they think people who work are fools, tools to be used to provide for their comfort. It can’t last. It won’t last.
I believe you excuse this mentality and criticize Yukon Jake’s post not because you believe it is good for the country. You excuse and criticize because it is good for the Democratic party. The next time you want to bring up the support of slavery you should look in the mirror first.
Speak4all, did you have a gun to your head when you were “giving”?
Misgiving about giving? You must be confused… or your entire post is a jest. That is precisely my point. Instead of earning and spending, this is an opportunity for those patriots who love America to spend more time with their families, earn as little as they need to get by, and give all the excess to their churches or charities as donations.
To drastically, intentionally, and legally decrease their tax liability that is feeding the government vote-buying machine.
I understand you confuse patriotism and love of country with facism. It must help you to try and lump me in with the terrible people you rightfully despise, but you are simply incorrect.
Much, if not all, of my post is strictly my opinion and belief about patriotism and love. Is it love of your country to support its unhealthy addiction to welfare? To “buy it another drink?” I simply contend that it is not.
The loving course of action is not to support our habit.
We clearly disagree on the definition of patriotic love, and of what is exclusive. Your rage and loathing of men who hadn’t applied the love that is inherent in our “inalienable rights from God” to slaves (YET) is misguided and sad.
America was founded on a notion that was truly RADICAL. The idea that people had the ability to govern themselves. Alexander Tyler predicted in the 1700’s that Democracy would never survive because people would eventually discover they could “Vote” themselves payments from the Public Treasury, and indeed we are in the death throes of his Democratic predictions, “From Apathy back into Bondage.”
You on the left yearn not for liberty, but for a dictator who you think shares your values. You would trade liberty for security and according to Ben Franklin, deserve neither.
I happen to agree.
I still believe in the American experiment. However, the true state of the state is that we are woefully inebriated on public monies. Therefore, the only correct response is to individually, legally, and drastically reduce our earning and spending until the system collapses under the weight of its own corruption.
Everyone’s not going to die, but they are going to have to get off their butts and be productive. Heaved forbid.
I feel no sympathy for the VAAAAST bulk of welfare recipients who live off of the system and always vote Democrat, and I believe that those who are truly in need will always find solace, shelter, and care at the Christian institutions and homes in America. I believe it is good for the soul, when you are in need, to humble yourself and ask for it, unlike the system we have now, where you simply vote for the graft and collect the timely check each month in the mail with no need for a conscience.
The rest NEED to go through the hangover.
But again, these are my beliefs about what to do. I don’t advocate what American Communists ought to do, only us who are tired of funding the machinery of American demise. And I believe that all we conservative patriots need to do is simply earn as little as humanly possible, and spend as little as we can, and the left will eat itself up like a snake.
I believe a single working mother who has to accept food stamps to keep her family fed is more of a patriot than any of the so called patriots posting on this blog because what she does takes real courage. I am sure none of you know what that means that are deriding this kind of person because you think it is so simple to accept help when it really is very difficult to admit that you need that help. Your denigration of people who need help is disgusting and really disqualifies you from being referred to as a “patriot”. You see to me, a real patriot recognizes their fellow citizens plight and tries to help them, even if it is only by encouraging words and actions directed towards them and whether or not they approve of that person. This nonsense being purported by conservative/tea party/wackos should be put in it’s place. Derogatory, mindless, hateful ramblings of the small minded skin flint scrooges of this world should be recognized for what they are, humbug. Stop with the gun to the head analogy. Move to Somalia, make friends with a war lord and hope they stay in power. You won’t have to worry about the government taking your precious money and helping other people with it there.
Thank you for making my point, Speak 4 All.
It takes NO courage to apply for foodstamps. It takes an online application from the comfort of your home. It DOES take courage to walk into your church or local foodbank and say “I can’t feed my kids, please help me.” You don’t have to admit anything, you don’t even have to speak to a human being to get on food stamps and start receiving benefits.
I denigrate no one other than the people who choose not to work because the system pays them not to, and them I deride in the most loving way. I don’t say “Damn them” and I don’t call them “disgusting,” or any other name. I do say they are behaving like they are drunk, intoxicated, and not in a good frame of mind.
I specifically say that I believe those who ACTUALLY need help, will always find it from their local churches and Christian institutions in their area. The rest will have to go to work.
Where in any of my writing do I denigrate “those in need?”
You make your decision in the same manner as the paving of all roads to hell, by acting with good intention (and precious little wisdom.) At a certain point, we as a society must ask whether that act is improving the situation, is actually helping, or is it hurting? Instead of teaching men and women to fish, we are rationing fish to everyone if they will only vote Democrat.
What is the result? Do the existence of Welfare benefits improve the quality of life in general, or is there an obvious (and quite factual) increase in those persons willing to accept a historically luxurious standard of low-income living?
Welfare as a government policy doesn’t improve society, it degrades it.
Charity on the other hand, from individual to individual, outside of government largess, DOES help the individual. I am a massive advocate for individual giving. Compulsory giving however is the road straight to hell. All it does is hook people on a system and make them dependent on government fish, and our ever and rapidly increasing rolls of welfare recipients are the evidence.
So you see, your accusation that I do not recognize my fellow citizens plight (both the greedy AND the needy) is quite patently false. Not only do I recognize it, I observe that the government model of treatment is PROVEN to be the ineffective method because their numbers continue to swell on a geometric curve.
There is no gun to anyone’s head but the hard-working, conservative patriot. To us it is stated: “Work hard and watch us wash your liberties and values flushed down the toilet in the name of the public good, or else.”
As evidenced in the last election, there are now many more voters who share your values than mine. The gun is not to your head, it is to mine. And rather than pull out my own gun, I advocate INDIVIDUAL GIVING to the MAXIMUM. So that when our neo-socialist government runs out of other people’s money, the churches (As has been their role throughout history) will be there, prepared, to pick people up, feed them and love them in community.
There is no hate coming from me in this thread.
I’m starting with the Man in the Mirror.
What if some one does not belong to or want to belong to an organized religion. That would be me. You seem to think that yours is the only way because you have rationalized that, yours is the only way. That’s a ridiculous assumption. There are many ways to obtain ones goals and desires. Your insistence on religion and reference to alcohol driven binges suggests that we should take the path of a recovering alcoholic and realize that the only true path to enlightenment is to join a church and subjugate our thoughts to that church’s belief system. It may have worked for an alcoholic driven simpleton that needed someone to tell them how to live however some of us would rather not subjugate ourselves to a religious belief system in order to realize our self-awareness and help others to do the same. You and the rest of the tea party can take your religiosity and keep it to yourselves. I would much rather believe in the greatness of this nation and it’s abilities to help it’s citizens then to succumb to some religion. We disagree. That’s OK I just don’t think you should believe that I should think that your methods are any more pure or better than mine. I don’t expect you to do that, we just disagree.
I understand you confuse patriotism and love of country with facism. It must help you to try and lump me in with the terrible people you rightfully despise, but you are simply incorrect.
Yukon, when your exclusionary definition of patriotism can be seen as nationalism. If we don’t fall for the communism thing you tell us we are in then you exclude us as patriots. That is silly.
Much, if not all, of my post is strictly my opinion and belief about patriotism and love. Is it love of your country to support its unhealthy addiction to welfare? To “buy it another drink?” I simply contend that it is not.
What addiction to welfare? Compare what we as a country spend on welfare programs for families (and the disabled) and the military budget and then lets talk addiction.
The loving course of action is not to support our habit.
Yet we do. More than the next 20 of our allies and enemies combined. Yet instead you choose to target the weakest among us.
We clearly disagree on the definition of patriotic love, and of what is exclusive.
Yes we do. To think that one must believe the extremist view that we are communist if we are to the left of center amongst other things or we are not patriotic is just plain silly.
Your rage and loathing of men who hadn’t applied the love that is inherent in our “inalienable rights from God” to slaves (YET) is misguided and sad.
Rage and loathing! Exaggerate much?
America was founded on a notion that was truly RADICAL. The idea that people had the ability to govern themselves.
Yes Divine rights of kings didn’t work for most people. And from that thought came the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Yet Slavery was lawful and only certain people could self govern (vote). Yet it was a great start for the times and we have moved on from that point.
Alexander Tyler predicted in the 1700’s that Democracy would never survive because people would eventually discover they could “Vote” themselves payments from the Public Treasury, and indeed we are in the death throes of his Democratic predictions, “From Apathy back into Bondage.”
First of all it was Alexander Tytler and he really didn’t say this. Lord Woodhouselee was a bit of a monarchist. For more on this little side issue try:
You on the left yearn not for liberty, but for a dictator who you think shares your values.
Really Yukon such prattle, The difference between us is much simpler lefties want liberty for all righties want economic liberty for some.
You would trade liberty for security and according to Ben Franklin, deserve neither.
I happen to agree.
Yet it was conservatives who had the PATRIOT Act written and passed into law in days. Conservatives who tell us government is coming to take away our rights whilst supporting the biggest military in the world within the same government. Yet you have the audacity to quote Franklin and tell me I value security over liberty.
I still believe in the American experiment. However, the true state of the state is that we are woefully inebriated on public monies.
As do I Yukon. So your idea of inebriated on public monies is a mother of 3 kids getting 1200 a month! Mine idea of inebriation on public monies is wealthy corporations getting government handouts. Getting tax credits for sending jobs overseas.
Therefore, the only correct response is to individually, legally, and drastically reduce our earning and spending until the system collapses under the weight of its own corruption.
Perhaps a correct response in certain circumstances but definitely not the only correct response. Get corporate money out of elections in but one , D.A.N and Roy amongst others have listed others in the past as well.
Everyone’s not going to die, but they are going to have to get off their butts and be productive. Heaved forbid.
Where are the job? Not everyone is a CEO Yukon. We have had decades of tax cuts for “Job producers” to produce job and they have failed us. We have charged wars on credit cards whilst cutting taxes yet no jobs. Your Christian charity for those on welfare is less than becoming Yukon. Your Reagan welfare queen myth is wrong as was your original inspiration for this post.
I feel no sympathy for the VAAAAST bulk of welfare recipients who live off of the system and always vote Democrat,
IS it because you assume they always vote Democrat? I wonder if these unpatriotic people vote. Yet they must as the repubs have spent much effort on suppressing their vote. Is it self governance for some that you prefer Yukon?
and I believe that those who are truly in need will always find solace, shelter, and care at the Christian institutions and homes in America.
Some do Yukon but the food banks and other charities are unable to handle what is out there now with the welfare we do have in place. What do you think will happen should you get your way on welfare?
I believe it is good for the soul, when you are in need, to humble yourself and ask for it, unlike the system we have now, where you simply vote for the graft and collect the timely check each month in the mail with no need for a conscience.
How misguided you are Yukon. Welfare mothers vote for the graft to get a check each month! The welfare mothers are the problem! Without Welfare conservatives could have liberty for the few. Meanwhile corporate America buys our representatives in Congress and SCOTUS decisions that allow them to hide and give their money free speech rights is ok with you!
But again, these are my beliefs about what to do. I don’t advocate what American Communists ought to do, only us who are tired of funding the machinery of American demise.
So you see the welfare mothers as the biggest threat to the American people! But this isn’t for the communist all what 12 of them still left in the country? “Welfare is the demise of the country” sounds just like conservative mythology Yukon. You are better than that.
And I believe that all we conservative patriots need to do is simply earn as little as humanly possible, and spend as little as we can, and the left will eat itself up like a snake.
So you are advocating that conservatives stop the christian charity, get CEO’s. Doctors, Lawyers and others to give up their earnings and live like welfare mothers! I agree. Lets see how that works.Here is some info Yukon on some that have tried that:
Your misplaced anger at the welfare mothers is understandable Yukon what with all the conservative propaganda on the subject. I would hope you would realize the conservative movement leaders are using you. THe problem is not welfare mothers it is the conservative movements use of them to fool good people like yourself. It is their goal to confuse you with these issues whilst they take the money and run. Be stronger than that.
I once, while unemployed, decided to do work instead of insisting society support me. I knew a person who was building a house and had pushed some pine trees into a pile while clearing the land. He needed to remove these trees. I cut these trees into firewood and sold them at the local camping grounds. I made enough money to pay my bills while unemployed. I was proud of myself for doing it and relieved I did not go into arrears.
I wonder if people who live on welfare and food stamps have ever enjoyed the pride that I felt. Did they ever experience the self-confidence of having done something on their own when it was needed? If they had, would they still be eager to receive government support?
I believe the ease at which people can receive government welfare deprives them of the opportunity to experience this pride and sense of accomplishment. It’s sad and it’s troubling, it will also be disastrous when the selfish outnumber the self-sufficient. And yes, I am talking about the selfish as portrayed by the woman on the radio program, not the truly needy who cannot support themselves.
There is a difference between a great nation helping it’s truly needy and a great nation being taken advantage of by selfish and self centered people who could care less about their fellow citizens.
Kudos for using your wits and wherewithal to make things better for you and someone else without being a burden on everyone else. Yes there are people in this world who take advantage of a handout. Corporate executives outnumber welfare recipients in this category however we do not see the same amount of scrutiny applied to them as we do the person who can’t hire a high priced law firm to make them look good. Yes we should continue to weed out the people who take advantage of something that is meant to be used sparingly and judiciously, yes it should be done regularly with liberal amounts of cleansing and re-evaluation. However the baby should be removed prior to tossing the waste water. All we hear today from conservatives is that the baby needs to go along with the bathwater, it just has to be that way and no other way. There has to be another way for the good of this country.
Again, j2t2, you speak without knowing of what you speak. Lucy did call back to the radio show. It was at 8:20 of hour 1 and not at 26:30 as said in the story you link to.
She called back to tell the truth about her first call. Yes, she did present a story/lie to make a point. That point was about the “up to 50%” of the people on welfare gaming the system. She didn’t call back because she had a guilty conscience, she called back to finish what she started. She was pointing out the fraud and abuse of the welfare system she experienced while receiving welfare.
Again, your own link shoots your post in the foot.
Speak4all, are there more corporate executives than there are people on welfare? Where’s your proof of this statement:
Yes there are people in this world who take advantage of a handout. Corporate executives outnumber welfare recipients in this category
I find it very hard to believe Corporate executives outnumber welfare recipients when 47 million people are receiving food stamps. Are there 47 million corporate executives? I doubt it. Show me your proof.
I agree with relieving corporations of their tax loop holes. I do not believe they are people and they should not even be paying taxes. There would be no need for loopholes then, would there? If you get rid of corp. personhood you would eliminate corporate loopholes, corporate campaign finance, corpocracy, etc. Taxes are passed on to the consumer so the consumer would see a savings as well. Less expensive products sell more. More sales, more jobs, less welfare recipients.
See? There is another way. All we have to do is believe it can be done.
Okay, I can see that you misunderstood what I was trying to say. There are more corporate executives gaming the system than there are welfare recipients gaming the system, is what I meant to communicate. And in terms of dollars being wasted the corporate executives amount would completely overwhelm the amount of the welfare recipients take. I know that it is convenient to point out that there are 47 million people on food stamps and then equate that with 47 million people gaming the system. That simply is not true. A great amount of those receiving food stamps are people employed at low wages jobs (Walmart and others) and some are even in the military serving our country (disgusting). Please try to use your abilities that allowed you to determine you could provide for you and yours without using welfare to also understand that the false accusations of everybody on welfare is a deadbeat and lazy bum. That is not true and needs to be refuted every time it is used. While I can applaud your ability to overcome adversity, that does not give you license to suspect everyone who doesn’t do that is gaming the system. That is not true.
She called back to tell the truth about her first call. Yes, she did present a story/lie to make a point.
Yes she did call back but do you get the part about she lied to make a point? Doesn’t that kinda make it not a point but a fallacy instead?
That point was about the “up to 50%” of the people on welfare gaming the system.
And this is why I call this just more conservative mythology Weary. You and these talk radio conservatives are using this womens story as proof of the 50% number gaming the system! Based upon what, her lies? No facts to get in the way, just a know liars opinion used to make a point, seriously?
She didn’t call back because she had a guilty conscience, she called back to finish what she started. She was pointing out the fraud and abuse of the welfare system she experienced while receiving welfare.
That is the spin put on it by the talk radio conservatives, such a noble bunch Weary. But tell you what lets have a serious factual discussion on what constitutes fraud and abuse. Then lets see how many people are booted from welfare rolls for actual fraud and compare the dollar amount to military or corporate waste.
Creating myths as conservatives continually do doesn’t really help to solve the problem. Unless of course the answer is to throw the military and corporate baby out with the bath water just as you would the welfare baby for “fraud and abuse”.
This us versus them mentality movement leaders insist conservatives partake in isn’t really helping Weary. It is a particularly vile technique designed to keep us fighting whilst they continue with the real fraud and corruption. The fraud and corruption that does the real damage to the country.
No one would ask of you to join or become a member of any religion. Would you feel obligated to if you had to turn to one for help? None worth belonging in would require it of you, any more than I would ask a person in need of Gas money to recite the Lord’s prayer to get it, ergo, I wouldn’t.
Christian Charity is aimed at one principle, to love thy neighbor. “Whatever you do to the least of these, also, you do to me.”
This thread is not about Bush, or wars, or corporate corruption, it is about the only option left to the conservative patriot. I agree with you the system is corrupt, but you are blatantly deceived if you think Obama’s administration is not even more so. I could list a baker’s dozen after Solyndra. Corruption is a systemic problem and it is the height of foolishness to think it one-sided. For every Koch Brother there is a George Soros.
This boils down to what can the individual can actually do.
You seem to think it irresponsible to stop feeding the beast, and I think it irresponsible not to.
Side note about Communism
You do claim there are only “like 12” people in America who are communist. I will agree there are only a tiny percentage of people in America who would label themselves “Communist.” But when I first learned about the Communist influence in America, I was shocked, and so I started reading and learning. I would recommend you actually READ the book “The Naked Communist” you can download the PDF for free online, or just read the stated goals of the book from its wikipedia page, and then tell me Communism is not only alive and well in our political theater, it is thriving.
In my opinion, based upon the evidence of the stated goals of Communism, it has successfully co-opted the “progressive” movement without revealing its true nature, and its “useful idiots” (look up the etymology) do not even realize the game plan behind the policies… behind the emotional appeals.
Back to this thread and my assertions. we agree that Fraud and Corruption are responsible for the real damage to our country. Where we differ is that you assert A) that fraud and corruption are largely conservative problems and B) that fraud and corruption are reserved for those in positions of high income.
MAN is a fallen creature. The #1 difference between Christian theology and every other theology, is that we acknowledge everyone has the capacity to commit evil. No one is above it, and NO ONE is beneath it. All sin. You seem to think the poor particularly holy, and the wealthy particularly sinful. We disagree on that.
You seem to mistake my advocacy for the personal limitation of earnings with a loathing of the poor. That or a wanton disregard for their well being. Nothing could be further from the truth.
We have tried YOUR system. The government model does not work to reduce dependence. That is an indisputable fact. There is not a single historical example in the history of the world where a governing body was able to increase overall prosperity through the redistribution of wealth. You can argue its the fault of everyone who is conservative, as you continually do, but at the end of the day, the numbers of people on the government dole are growing. Rapidly under Obama.
You ask where the jobs are, and what will happen, if people were to adopt my vision. If you read the original essay, I explain quite clearly I think, that there will be a painful hangover. Not widespread death like the doom many are peddling, but widespread pain as people realize that government dependency is unsustainable. You advocate continuing to drink the booze, and I advocate that every shot we take only makes the hangover that will eventually come, that much MORE painful.
And yes, I assert that a person’s dependence on government is directly proportional to their likelihood to vote for politicians who will continue to keep the checks coming in the mail. That you dispute this truism is hilarious. I’m sure a small percentage of people who embrace welfare as a lifestyle vote conservative for social reasons, but it is a small percentage.
While your definition of religion seems admirable, in practical application it just seems non-existent to me. I find the new Pope’s take on this idea just as fascinating as yours however I am uncertain how he plans on divesting perhaps the greatest fortune in modern history if he continues to advocate for his vows of humility and poverty. I don’t think it can be done. I do believe that this Pope was put into power by the existing power structure of the church because they saw the writing on the wall and knew that the previous Pope was to close to being implicated in the sex scandals involving children and looked to protect the church’s wealth by having him resign rather than discover any direct involvement or cover up. They may have jumped from the frying pan to the fire by appointing this Jesuit. We will see.
I am glad you feel the way you do about religion however you will need to forgive me for not thinking that it provides a better system of the disbursement of charity then what already exists. A combination of religious/social/and governmental charitable giving. You seem to have (along with many other people of the tea party persuasion) this inordinate fear of the government when it comes to helping people. In fact I find the ability of religion to not pay taxes on income/property/sales etc. as a complete and diabolical way to take advantage of my tax dollars. You see I believe that if you are a part of this country you owe it to the rest of us to contribute in the form of taxes. This may be difficult for you to understand but I truly believe that it is an honor and privilege to pay taxes, I served in the military and believe my service is no different than paying taxes and was and still am proud of that service. I am sorry that you do not feel the same way and worry that you and so many others have so much distrust of something that will be here for the rest of your life (government as we know it)this can’t be good for you. As you advocate for me to accept christian giving as the only way, I also advocate for you to see the government as a capable entity that should be relied upon to help citizens in need. Please try to understand my position as I have tried to understand yours. I also find it difficult to understand how you can say our government has failed in it’s ability to help it’s citizens in need. Even if that does happen on occasion I don’t understand why you would think that it is the only outcome that is possible. Enjoy your religion and all that you think it can be, please afford me that same courtesy for what I believe can be done.
The institution of religion is admirable. It is its practicioners that are fallen.
I do certainly afford you your right to think and believe what you want to. Fortunately the right to dissenting ideas has not yet been taken from us under the grounds of intolerance and hate speech. Time will tell on that one.
You will notice the column in which I posted this essay. I expected disagreement, but I fail to see how stating my opinion steals a courtesy from you.
I don’t advocate that Christian giving is the only way, merely that it is better for the soul to give directly to the person you are helping than through a 3rd party. And that in the wake of a collapse of that 3rd party, Christian institutions will (as they have always done) fill the void created when philanthropy again becomes a personal and voluntary, unlike the compulsory system we have now.
I have no fundamental fear of government. I do have a disdain for sweeping power, and a system that is rife with corruption and fraud, AND is doing a demonstrably terrible job of managing the affairs of its people as evidenced by the swelling ranks of the poor.
This is not about the poor, this is about the power. As a middle man between the giver and the receiver, the government holds all the power. He takes from the giver at gunpoint, and determines exactly how much the receiver should receive - and for what he should receive it. In my opinion, the more democratic, and evenly distributed the authority and power, the less opportunity there is for corruption.
This is the lynch-pin in the leftist dogma. The left generally asserts that lots of small businesses are better than a few HUMONGOUS businesses. Mom and Pop shops versus Walmart. I agree. The left asserts that in an ideal world wealth should not be concentrated into a very few hands. I agree (in the ideal.) I can give a thousand examples where people on the left advocate the ideal should be a proper distribution of things, EXCEPT when it comes to POWER. The left continually advocates that ALL power should be concentrated in the leviathan of government. This is where (going back to my last post to j2t2 regarding it) I believe Liberalism has been deftly co-opted by Communism.
If you read the stated Communist goals from 50 years ago, they have been amazingly successful, and each of their platforms are now a brick in the foundations of neo-liberal ideology.
I understand your fear of the “leviathan government”, I disagree with that view point. Look I tried to draw the analogy between my military service to my country and my ability to pay taxes. I equate the same honor and privilege to those endeavors. I did not agree with everything the military did or was attempting to do at the time. I served from 1965 to 1968. You might understand my reticence in serving in the military at that time, I did not feel we were doing the right thing in VietNam. But I served, I did not protest. I did not castigate my superiors for that action, not that it would have done much good in the military and in fact would have made life very difficult for me. Your fears of Communism are conflated, it is a dead and gone political philosophy. I found the military more like Communism than anything else in my 67 years of existence. I do support your desire to affect change where you see that necessary however I don’t think that advocating against taxes that the government collects as an honorable way to accomplish that. Perhaps I misunderstood your posting but it seemed as though you were advocating not spending or earning income as a method of not contributing to the taxes that government collects. This is where we differ, I believe by virtue of my success in life that I owe this to my country just as much as I owed my military service to this great nation.
No one is talking about cheating the government out of it’s due. Laws are in place to collect taxes. The laws that are in place are progressive. They collect more taxes from people making more money. If a person makes less money they owe less taxes. It is not against the law, or immoral, or cheating, to make less money.
Speak4all, do you advocate the government mandating a wage that each person must receive that allows the government to maintain it’s current spending? Should we force people to earn enough to pay the taxes you think are needed to support the people on welfare, foodstamps,and the other 180 programs that give away money?
If this wage is mandated then the taxes wouldn’t be needed, would they? Or do you insist the people on welfare be exempt from this mandate?
I was not talking about “cheating” the government. I was talking about taking pride in the participation of the payment of taxes to the country we owe our successes to. Please pay attention to what I type and not to what you want to believe what I type. Now with that said, I did not say “You didn’t build that”. I said you built that by virtue of being in a country that allowed you to be successful and in some cases helped you be successful. So yes you owe something for that.
Yes I support the raising of the minimum wage by the federal government however it seems as though state governments are starting to understand that the minimum wage requirements are a good thing. Force people to earn enough to pay the taxes I think are necessary? Please stop with that nonsense and quit trying to refer to everyone on food stamps or some welfare program as some big give away. You are wrong. Yes if people were more successful in life there would be less need for the government to help people in need. I am not sure why you would dispute that but have at it.
Roosevelt started the a minimum wage at $.25 an hour. Since then it has been raised to $7.25 and is being debated again. In my opinion, it isn’t working. It is a reaction to the problem not a solution to the problem. We can raise it again and in a couple of years raise it again and in a couple of years raise it again… get my point?
Your pride is not the same as my pride. I take pride in not relying on government for my donuts and potato chips. I pay for my own phone, TV, internet, gas, food, insurance, water. That makes me proud. I’ll be damned if I’m going to let someone dis me because I choose not to pay other’s way.
Pride is relative. Hell, some people are proud they get all their money from the government. Should I be forced to emulate them when they become the majority?
Yes, it will need to be consistently raised as is necessary. You have no point. You take pride in what you want to. You can’t tell me not to take pride in what I want to. Your pride is predicated on feeling better than someone who is in need. My pride is predicated on feeling better because I helped someone in need. You consistently use ridiculous assumptions (some people are proud they get all their money from government) to make you feel better about yourself. That is not healthy or correct. You dis yourself by commenting the way you do. I am uncertain if we can continue our discussion if you continue to want to take what I type and turn it into what you think I type. Try harder.
The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. We raise the minimum wage over and over again, each time forcing one section of the population to “give” to another section of the population, and it does nothing to solve the problem. Wages go up and prices follow. It’s insane to think raising the minimum wage, causing turmoil, forcing business to pay, will solve the basic problem of inflation. It doesn’t. Real money solves the problem of inflation. The value of our money should at least stay the same or increase, not decrease the way fiat money does.
Starving the beast will, in the long run, solve more problems than it would supposedly cause.
I served from 1995 to 2001, 2 tours in the Persian Gulf. I thank you for your unapologetic service.
I can tell from your comments about Communism you neither looked up the Naked Communist nor read anything about its goals. That is a shame. Though I can understand that realizing your ideology has been utterly co-opted would be a nauseating pill to swallow. Going down a list of clear communist goals written in the 50’s, that are exclusive to the neo-liberal platform. It’s painfully obvious if you read it, but that was not the point or purpose of my essay so I can let it go.
Communism aside, I’d be interested to hear how you rationalize power as the ONE thing that should not be fairly distributed, and where in history its concentration has well-served the common man.
Thus far, crickets from you there…
I’ve read the goals layed out by the Communist party. It’s startling how they’ve come to fruition. They were published in the ’50s and they could just as well have been written to describe today’s actual conditions.
I was deeply troubled when I read that.
Yukon Jake, take a look at the game of Survivor, the season where Boston Rob won. He had all the power. He controlled all the people in his tribe and he chose who stayed and who went. He maintained this power until he ultimately won the game. He may have convinced those that supported him it was in their best interests but in the long run it was Boston Rob who took home the Million dollars.
… and then they came for me…
I have no fear of Communism nor do I feel co-opted. The coincidence of similar goals does not mean similar outcomes. No I have not read the Naked Communist and I don’t intend to. I have limited time available and spend most of that time working for a living or taking care of my grandchildren and their wants and needs. A very limited amount of time is spent here attempting to understand. Sorry but I don’t think reading that would change my opinions.
Power not being fairly distributed is not anything I can control and I do not understand your fear of this. Power can be exerted in any number of ways without government. A good example might be the power the church/religion holds over some of their devotees (the recent exposure of sex scandals involving children over many years is one example). Some of this is abused and some is not. That would be how I feel about power and government. Just as I would not accuse everyone involved with organized religion for a few members indiscretion, I am unable to blame government as a whole for a few peoples indiscretions.
I don’t watch survivor and really can honestly tell you that I never will. The minimum wage has been raised since it’s inception and will continue to be raised as is necessary. That is not doing something over and over again the same way. That is responding to the economic needs of society. I wonder how much top executive’s pay has increased since the minimum wage was at .25 per hour. And yet you have no problem with that? Oh that’s right it’s free market at work taking advantage of the working man, yes that’s just fine and dandy for you. Let’s just say we disagree about that and leave it there as we seem to have hit a non sequitur. You think the minimum wage is unnecessary and I believe it to be a necessity. We disagree, OK?
Raising it over and over again is doing it the same way. It is not responding to economic needs of society, it is accomodating a flaw in government procedure.
You won’t read the communist manifesto. You will not consider the Survivor analogy, yet we are the ones who are mistaken and short-sighted.
Ignorance is bliss! It so easily allows you to say you are right and we are wrong.
You consistently use ridiculous assumptions
You dis yourself by commenting the way you do.
Please stop with that nonsense
Your fears of Communism are conflated, it is a dead and gone political philosophy.
This nonsense being purported by conservative/tea party/wackos should be put in it’s place. Derogatory, mindless, hateful ramblings of the small minded skin flint scrooges of this world should be recognized for what they are, humbug. Stop with the gun to the head analogy. Move to Somalia, make friends with a war lord and hope they stay in power. You won’t have to worry about the government taking your precious money and helping other people with it there.
Posted by: Speak4all at December 10, 2013 11:30 AM
It looks like you simply refuse to learn. That is ignorance.
Nope not gonna read some communist book that someone here suggests and I definitely will never watch survivor. I will however continue to point out what I believe are really strange ways of thinking, yours in particular. Not all commenting persons here have that knack of making me want to scroll past their silliness as I like to think I can respect their right to say something even if I don’t respect what they say. You however are pushing the limits of that.
It’s not 1958.
I don’t know if you remember the useless “duck and cover” exercises when the air raid sirens went off every Friday morning, but I do. I also remember bomb shelters in people’s back yards (now replacced by survivalist bunkers, apparently some people are willing to believe anything).
Eisenhower was’t a Communist stooge.
Nuclear proliferation wasn’t a good thing.
The Soviet bloc is long gone.
“Red” China is actually embracing a “free” market style economy.
Returning to the “Ozzie & Harriet” world imagined by the far right fringe is just silly nonsense.
Throwing the baby out with the bath water, ie, closing down the government would do harm to this country’s economy that will take decades to recover from.
I understand not wanting to invest the time in reading and learning, I don’t agree, but I understand. I also have no time for television. That said, you COULD spend 2 minutes and just read the goal list off of the wikipedia page.
It might upset your cognitive dissonance. But then again it might not.
Fundamentally transformative goals that were laid out in the 50’s and were considered an abomination, that are now actual policy are indeed accomplishments of dogged determination by people who wanted these things to come about. In the 50’s these people were self-avowed Communists. That became a very naughty word. Now they are “liberal” or at least their values system is perfectly aligned with liberalism as it describes itself today. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims and flies like a duck, and breeds like a duck…
Arguing against the obvious doesn’t make it so, but again, if you refuse to learn about it, then talking about with you is a bit like farting in the wind.
No one wants to close down the government, at least I don’t propose it’s closure. I do propose legal, non-violent means of forcing it to prioritize it’s expenditures, because they are neither helping the needy to become more self-reliant, nor helping anyone become more productive.
You are probably correct, we will never again in this country enjoy the innocence, moral fiber, personal dignity and self-reliance of the age that gave birth to Ozzie and Harriet.
Congratulations, you can have all the credit for that.
Why is it when someone proposes a moderate solution the left has to push it to the extremes to make their point?
Who said anything about returning to 1958? Who said anything about Ozzie and Harriet? Good for China, can we follow suit? Can we have a free market? Can we quit spending government money on farmers who dump product? Can we stop spending money on the Solindras? It’s not the government’s job to pick winners and losers!
Closing down the government is such hyperbole it’s incredible! Your side closed down the government and nothing happened. In fact, government employees who had a 2 week paid vacation got paid twice when they collected unemployment and then got wages reembursed.
I wish I could go about shouting the sky will fall if a Democratic proposes their hair-brained do-gooder solutions! I wish people would slink away and allow hubris to control the discussion the way your side expects. Common sense be damned, right? The spoiled, 12-year-old, mentality should always prevail, right? You’re aggravated because I have the audacity to continue this thread to the point your side will pick up their marbles and go home. To hell with trying to understand our point of view. It’s not yours so to hell with us, right?
The man on the street interview:
Interviewer: Do you think the American people are ignorant and apathetic?
Interviewee: I don’t know and I don’t care!
“Congratulations, you can have all the credit for that.”
Really? I voted for Reagan. Should I also get credit for the collapse of the Soviet bloc?
I read the “goal” list on wikipedia.
There are maybe 50,000 registered Communist Party members in the whole country. None hold even as much as a State level office, though a CP member was just elected to the City Council in Seattle.
There’s probably not much risk of a national take over any time soon.
If you’re trying to insult me by calling me a liberal/communist you’re really gonna have to do better than that.
You do know that Pravda is known for it’s propaganda, right?
“Try not to gloat after you read it. (If you read it at all)”
How’s that whole John Birch Socity thing going?
I don’t know, Rocky Marks.
I’ve been paying attention to politics for over 30 years and one thing I have learned is not to trust one source. I don’t see the next media picked flavor of the cycle and rest my entire future on it.
I’ve watched a lot of stuff happen in those 30 some years and it doesn’t look pretty. The lack of responsibility is bad. The welfare mentality is bad. The demonization of religion is bad. The idea that capitalism being evil is bad. The idea that lifetime careers for politicians is bad. Their idea they are above the laws they pass is bad. The media choosing our candidates is bad.
Who do I blame? The people who protect all of the above.
Okay, I did go to the Wikipedia entry for the Naked Communist and got through the first 30 or so highlights. Wow now I understand why you fear so much. If I took that nonsense to heart I guess I would also have some very intense concern. However I cannot take that stuff to heart as it seems like the rantings of someone who is using word salad sentences to make a point that I believe is false from the beginning. Sorry, but I won’t buy into the fear mongering and I know I am not a Communist nor do I hold any of the beliefs that seem to be part of the outline of the book. But I guess it does help me to understand why you have such pent up anger and fear, I just do not think it is rational. I am very sorry that you feel so much pain and angst however I realize that I cannot change that. That is something you will have to accomplish and I wish all of the best in that endeavor and expect you to attain your goals using reasoning and logic to guide your decisions. I like this country the way it is and will be even with all of it’s problems and foibles. I support your efforts to make changes without using violence.
One other thing that I mentioned earlier and just want to stress that again. I consider it an honor and a privilege to pay any or all of my taxes, local and federal. I like driving on well maintained roads, I like seeing children being able to attend schools, I like seeing protections afforded by the police and fire department and most of all I like thinking that my tax dollars help all of the aforementioned to be accomplished. I do not understand why anyone cannot see honor in doing that.
It’s the waste and corruption that goes along with it, Speak4all.
Why should the federal govenment be spending our tax dollars on the mating habits of ducks, or the sex life of gay males in Brazil? It’s abuse, it’s unconstitutional, it leads to more abuse and a further erosion of our constitution to the point our president can lie to us for years and get away with it.
If you like this country the way it is, how would you like your household to run the same way?
My household is not a country, thank goodness. Yes there is waste and fraud and corruption, breaking news this just started happening in 2008 and has never been witnessed before. I am not sure why money is spent on somethings but I am also glad that I do not make those decisions and can just sit here and be as critical as I want to about that. Of course I don’t want to be critical and would much rather just appreciate the things that I like that money is spent on. I will leave that critical stuff for you to chew on and chew on and chew on.
Well, do us all a favor and don’t vote.