Charles Krauthammer and C&J

I (C here. J says many are asking after me) am reading a new book by Charles Krauthammer, Things That Matter: Three Decades of Passions, Pastimes and Politics. J sent it to me, since he knows Charles is my favorite pundit. He is perhaps the most intelligent of the pundit tribe. I like Charles because of his intellect and wit, but also because of his life story. He arrived at the truth from the same direction I did, from the left.

Like most young Jewish intellectuals, Charles started out as a man of the left. His background would also not prdict his later life. Charles is Canadian, graduate from McGill and Oxford and has a medical degree from Harvard.

He remained a Democrat for a long time, even writing speeches for Walter Mondale. When asked about his earlier leftism, he just respond that he was young once. (You remember the old saying, if you are not a leftist when you are twenty, you have no heart, but if you are still a leftist at forty ... you know the rest)

His journey from left to being right is like mine and like many intelligent conservatives. He embraced the muscular liberalism of Truman and Kennedy. This branch of liberalism died out in the 1980s.

Charles says of Democrats of the time, "They fell in the thrall of the 'nuclear freeze,' an idea of unmatched strategic vacuity." some Europeans later saw the error of their ways. "But the Democratic Party never did. It went even further left." So on foreign policy, Charles, like Reagan (& on much lower lever like C&J) never left the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left him.

Speaking of social policy, the Democrats just got crazier and crazier. With his scientific mind Krauthammer understood that the Great Society and other social movements directed from the Beltway were causing injury to the indigent, to minorities, to immigrants--the very people they were supposed to nurture.

This last is the great truth of liberal politics. It is not good for the poor in its post 1970 form, but it creates a dependence that binds the poor to the policies of redistribution and creates a state of envy and entitlement that denigrates individual achievements.

J talking now - We believe in partnership not patronage. That means a government that creates conditions for individual prosperity is good to the extent that it requires effort on both sides. Both extremes, the one where government gives w/o expectation of reciprocity and the other where are expected to do everything for themselves, are bad. There is little chance that the latter will ever come to pass in the U.S. It has never existed in our history, since Americans have always benefited from a well developed rule of law and large investments by government in infrastructure. The great danger was introduced into the U.S. in the middle 20th Century. It was the pernicious idea that government owed something specific to people and particular groups of them.

This is a fundamental departure from American tradition. Our Novus Ordo Seclorum mean that we were citizens, not subjects. As "owners" of government, we had responsibilities as well as rights. Our government was our tool, but in becoming that we gave up on the old fashioned ideas of government as a benevolent parent, widely believed but rarely manifest, BTW. Our government is more like the watchmaker deity of the enlightenment. It set in motion but rarely messing with the system. This is as it should be, but as we are losing.

C here again - we moved from Krauthammer. But now we are done. Charles is my hero.

The picture shows J&C so you can see whose talking and guess the difference.

Posted by Christine & John at November 9, 2013 6:29 AM
Comment #373938

I envision, as our founders surely did, a nation filled with well schooled and enlightened individuals who valued their independence from government while recognizing a need for government. A nation of people who gave generously to those in real need from their own table and pocket with no force of law to encourage them.

I envision a nation governed by individuals chosen for their faith in the governed rather than in government itself.

I envision a nation of just enough law to protect the rights of others against infringement by others.

I envision a nation that does truly believe that taxes are a necessary evil, and not a means of enriching some at the expense of others or a tool for establishing social norms.

I envision a nation that values its rich religious history and tradition and understands the genesis of morality. We are not meant to be free from religion, but free from the mandate of religion.

I envision a nation of individuals who recognize the value and worth of each and every member. We are all worthy of advancing as far as our own efforts and own ability will take us.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 9, 2013 4:06 PM
Comment #373944

If you like Krauthammer, it is because you do not know anything about him.

Krauthammer is a Neocon’s Neocon, a chickenhawk’s chickenhawk. An advocate of PNAC, he pushed the policies that resulted in the invasion of Iraq. His cheerleading contributed to the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of human beings and wounding of countless more human beings, with another two million human beings losing their homes; meanwhile, the US lost at least $600 billion in direct costs, and another $800 billion to date in follow-on costs.

For the cost of that unnecessary war we could have funded a four year college education for every American who qualified, or cradle to grave health care.

You don’t hear Krauthammer mention that, do you?

But it wasn’t just Iraq. Krauthammer gets virtually every major foreign policy decision wrong. He advocates the use of violence and force to spread American domination, but at the same time, he reflexively opposes most of what Obama advocates.

The result is long list of foreign policy mistakes- pushing for the last Israeli invasion of Lebanon, the worst foreign policy mistake in Israeli history is yet another example of a mistake- and these result in bloodshed and violenc. There are other examples of strongly opposing issues that turned out to be foreign policy successes without the loss of a single American life.

Of course, Krauthammer is entitled to his opinions. There is no such thing as malpractice for pundits, and FOX will never go back to the record, to what is in writing, and let its poor uninformed viewers know the truth about people like Krauthammer. But make no mistake. People like Charles Krauthammer are terrible human beings, and this planet is the worse and more blood drenched because of them.

Posted by: phx8 at November 10, 2013 12:08 PM
Comment #373945


We like his ideas and how he expresses them. I agree with much of what he says in print. I do not know the man personally and his attributes that you think are bad make no difference to my assessment of his ideas.

I don’t know you personally either. I judge you only by what you write here. Perhaps Charles is not erudite as he seems in print, just as you are perhaps more tolerant and less hateful than your writings would imply. In both cases, however, I can only make decisions based on the available evidence.

Posted by: CJ at November 10, 2013 12:49 PM
Comment #373947

I am intolerant of people who advocate unnecessary wars and violence, which is precisely what Krauthammer does.

Posted by: phx8 at November 10, 2013 2:50 PM
Comment #373948


I don’t suppose he thought it unnecessary. You recall that Neville Chamberlain avoided an unnecessary war over Czechoslovakia and Clinton avoided involvement in Rwanda. Some people thought that earlier action might have avoided some of the later consequences.

Being a pacifist is defensible morally, although practically problematic.

I currently have a moral problem with Syria. I don’t want to involve American power there, but I am afraid mine is a cowardly and shortsighted position. Events will help determine if it is wisdom or folly, but I could advocate either side and not be certain. It is always a problem when we make decisions in conditions of some uncertainty and most important decisions fall into that category.

Posted by: CJ at November 10, 2013 3:51 PM
Comment #373949

Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman and Johnson come to mind. But, the dems do seem to go thru congress while the repubs seem to go around congress.

Either way, it’s impossible to deny that military actions have kept the US on the front burner economically. Recovered us from the great depression and If we weren’t at war during all those periods we would not have the super strong military capability we have today.

Were that not so I do believe Russia and/or China would have tried to roll us over long ago.

Today, the world is awash in oil/gas: Iraq, Kurdestan, Iran, Russia, Africa, and the US. Hard to believe China is still building coal burners.

Were the US a much weaker nation how long would it take China to roll up the S. China sea and so on - - -

Re Charles. He would make a great statesman, which are in way short supply. He goes up against Bill, who is a pretty sharp dude, and they compliment each other, IMO. Bill comes off as the sharp jab in the ribs while Charles comes off as a laid back ‘I knowed what I knowed when I knowed it’ kinda guy.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at November 10, 2013 3:57 PM
Comment #373953

No need to show pictures in order for anyone to differentiate the posting/comments. I could have someone read them to me and tell you who wrote what. In fact, as I recall, one of C’s first comments here during the 2008 campaign had something to do with “OMG, Obama smokes cigarettes, he’ll never be our President”. And as I recall J reminded you that smoking, while not being very healthy, was not a reason to find that he was unfit for service to our country. In fact in the post above J seems to take a turn at trying to convince us that government intrusion is different than governance while you condescend at the end to suggest someone might need picture evidence to support that you are different because they can’t understand the difference. Your posts/comments seem to throw red meat to the haters here while J’s try to use political acumen to support arguments and combat opposition to stated beliefs. Again no offense meant just an observation of the difference in writing styles.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 11, 2013 4:37 PM
Comment #373954
I am intolerant of people who advocate unnecessary wars and violence

The important part of this is the ‘unnecessary’ part and who makes that determination.

Meaning, what is the party affiliation of the person advocating the war and violence…

Democrat, it’s necessary
Republican, it’s unnecessary

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 11, 2013 5:11 PM
Comment #373956

Democrat: achievement of foreign policy goals without US casualties or troops on the ground, at minimal cost with minimal violence, and with local forces determining their own future as much as possible.
Examples: The break-up of Yugoslavia, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran.

Republican: failure to achieve foreign policy goals, many US casualties, troops invading on the ground, high cost, horrendous violence on a large scale, with local forces overwhelmed by dominating foreign armies.
Examples: Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon 1982, when Reagan lost over 240 marines, Grenada practically the next day (does that invasion count?), the 1986 Tanker War; and, although US troops did not invade, the GOP backed terribly violent wars in El Salvador, Honduras, and sold arms to the Iranians to fund the Contras in Nicaragua. In each case in Central America, the US backed dictators practicing brutal repression against the poor in order to preserve US corporate interests.

To his credit, Bush #41 did achieve foreign policy goals with the invasion of Iraq in the early 90’s.

Posted by: phx8 at November 11, 2013 6:31 PM
Comment #373957

The ObamaCare Dozen

“The Democrats who voted for the debacle are now scrambling for cover.

Fifteen Senate Democrats plus Colorado’s Michael Bennet who chairs the Senatorial Campaign Committee sat down at the White House Wednesday, and they want all and sundry to know that they let President Obama have it. Alaska’s Mark Begich put out a statement saying he chewed out the big cheese for “absolutely unacceptable” mismanagement and “an understandable crisis in confidence.” He must have drafted it in advance.

Oregon’s Jeff Merkley chimed in to report that even after the two-hour encounter session that was not on the public schedule, he was still “very frustrated” and “I remain deeply convinced that this is a ‘show-me’ moment.” Asked by Politico if Democrats were losing credibility, an anonymous attendee said, “You got to have it, to lose it.”

This WSJ article should have my liberal friends on WB losing some sleep.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 11, 2013 7:56 PM
Comment #373958

To phx8’s dismay, Oregon still hasn’t signed up one single person on obamacare:

Here is a series of events taking place which show an Obama administration which is in a complete case of chaos. First we find that obamacare has completely failed to sign up anyone:

Nov 11 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform has reached only about 3 percent of its enrollment target for 2014 in 12 U.S. states where new online health insurance marketplaces are mostly working smoothly, a report released on Monday said.

The we see the complete lack of understanding of what is taking place. Blabbermouth Schultz believes that Democrats should run on their support of obamacare in order to win in 2014:

( - Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, the chair of the Democratic National Committee, said on CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday that Democratic congressional candidates would win by running on Obamacare in the 2014 midterm elections. “I think, actually, Candy, that Democratic candidates will be able to run on ObamaCare as an advantage leading into the 2014 election,” Wasserman Schultz told host Candy Crowley.

But we find the Democrats running away from Obama and his failed HC plan as fast as they can:

Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) will ask two oversight agencies for a full-blown investigation into the problems surrounding the ObamaCare launch.

Hagan, who is up for reelection in 2014, is asking her Senate colleagues to co-sign a letter asking two agencies to conduct “a complete, thorough investigation to determine the causes of the design and implementation failures of HealthCare.Gov.”

We even find 15 Democrats Senators who went to the WH to complain to Obama of their fears of re-election; to which Obama promised the same things that was promised in 2010…”no problem…we have it all covered…you will be re-elected”:

The torrents of Affordable Care Act monsoon season aren’t letting up, so Democrats are scrambling to help the victims: namely, their own careers. The Senators up for re-election in competitive states in 2014 are starting to panic, though they still aren’t offering solutions for anything other than their own growing political jeopardy.

Fifteen Senate Democrats plus Colorado’s Michael Bennet who chairs the Senatorial Campaign Committee sat down at the White House Wednesday, and they want all and sundry to know that they let President Obama have it. Alaska’s Mark Begich put out a statement saying he chewed out the big cheese for “absolutely unacceptable” mismanagement and “an understandable crisis in confidence.” He must have drafted it in advance.

But since the enrollment numbers have to be out in a few days…we find the Obama administration juggling the numbers and lying to the Americans once again:

Who counts as an Obamacare enrollee? The Obama administration settles on a definition.

By Sarah Kliff, Updated: November 11, 2013

The fight over how to define the new health law’s success is coming down to one question: Who counts as an Obamacare enrollee?

Health insurance plans only count subscribers as enrolled in a health plan once they’ve submited a payment. That is when the carrier sends out a member card and begins paying doctor bills.

When the Obama administration releases health law enrollment figures later this week, though, it will use a more expansive definition. It will count people who have purchased a plan as well as those who have a plan sitting in their online shopping cart but have not yet paid.

“In the data that will be released this week, ‘enrollment’ will measure people who have filled out an application and selected a qualified health plan in the marketplace,” said an administration official, who requested anonymity to frankly describe the methodology.

What we are seeing is a meltdown…

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 11, 2013 8:53 PM
Comment #373959

When a person goes on to buy an item…first you look up the item, get the price, and have it placed in the check out cart. The obamacare exchange requires you to enter your private information, have it placed in the check out cart, before the price is given; once people see the price, they leave the website without buying. The Obama administration is counting people who have left the site and not bought anything as enrollees in HC. A lie…but what should we expect?

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 11, 2013 9:04 PM
Comment #373960


yin & yang - both complementary and both incomplete.

Neither of us recalls the smoking thing, however. Besides, J would never presume to correct C.

Posted by: CJ at November 11, 2013 9:12 PM
Comment #373967

The following passage by Political Hostage is completely contradictory, the first belonging to Political Hostage and the second being a factual report Political Hostage presents.

“Here is a series of events taking place which show an Obama administration which is in a complete case of chaos. First we find that obamacare has completely failed to sign up anyone:

Nov 11 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform has reached only about 3 percent of its enrollment target for 2014 in 12 U.S. states where new online health insurance marketplaces are mostly working smoothly, a report released on Monday said.”

First, he says we find obamacare has completely failed to sign up anyone, and then contradicts himself with a quote clearly stating that IN 2013 obamacare has enrolled 3% of its 2014 target, a year yet away.

Literacy issue?

Posted by: David R. Remer at November 12, 2013 8:37 AM
Comment #373969

Remer, You need the literacy test. Read it again.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at November 12, 2013 9:00 AM
Comment #373971

David R. Remer, thank you for your quick observation of my mistake. I know that 3% have been reported to be signed up; my comment of not signing up was meant to be attached to the previous link that Oregon had not signed up anyone. So rather than a “literacy issue”, it would be a “typo” issue. But again I thank Remer for trying to attack me rather than deal with the issues I presented. This is more of the Alinsky “Rules for Radicals” mentality; attack the source and not the substance. I just wonder what Remer thinks about the 15 Democrat Senators who met with Obama for 2 hours, demanding he do something to protect their re-elections? I wonder what Remer thinks about the Obama administration using fudged numbers to make it look like more people have signed up? Today, the report s that only 50k have signed up…are these actual people who have signed up, or is Obama also counting people who placed a policy in their shopping cart, but never bought. These are the real issues…not my typo.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 9:21 AM
Comment #373972

By the way Remer, I presented a series of events taking place, starting with:

1. Zero signups in Oregon.

2. Only 3% of their goal being met nationwide.

3. Blabbermouth Shultz claiming Democrats will be able to run on the success of Obamacare.

4. Democrats running from Obama and calling for an investigation into the implementation of obamacare.

5. Democrats running from obamacare in the 2014 election.

6. And finally, fudged enrollment numbers.

These are the issues; I would be curious to see Remer’s response to these issues. Unless Remer is just a troll on WB and does not want to deal with the real issues.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 9:32 AM
Comment #373974

Just to be clear, in Oregon there are already 56,000 enrollments. The web site works for giving quotes and info, but does not work for enrollments yet.

Posted by: phx8 at November 12, 2013 10:49 AM
Comment #373975

enrollments are not paying customers. They are just looking.

See how short and simple that is.

Posted by: tom humes at November 12, 2013 11:12 AM
Comment #373976

Nice pixes.

I tell people that everybody has a “twin” except Robert Redford and me.

When Redford was younger he was handsome.
All my life I did not represent being handsome. lol

Posted by: tom humes at November 12, 2013 11:17 AM
Comment #373979

In the words of the VP Gaffer “God love em”; don’t you just love how the mind of a leftist works? I gave a CBS link stating that not one single person has enrolled in obamacare in Oregon and phx8’s response is that there are 56k enrollments:

Just to be clear, in Oregon there are already 56,000 enrollments. The web site works for giving quotes and info, but does not work for enrollments yet.

Posted by: phx8 at November 12, 2013 10:49 AM

The phx8 goes on to say the web site gives quotes and info, but does not work to enroll anyone. This is bad; but David Remer’s earlier comment to me was this:

The following passage by Political Hostage is completely contradictory, the first belonging to Political Hostage and the second being a factual report Political Hostage presents.

Now my question is, will David Remer be as quick to point out phx8’s contradictory comment? My guess is he won’t.

Phx8’s numbers of 56k even contradict the obamacare numbers of a little more than 40k who signed up. Phx8 is like many other leftist on WB; provide cover for obamacare, no matter how dumb they sound. Even the liberal talking heads on the national news are calling the advent of obamacare a joke.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 12:07 PM
Comment #373981

You are confused. People can sign up for the ACA without using web sites. They can use the phone. Others, uninsured people on Medicaid, are already signed up- 56,000 in OR, a little more in WA, and 600,000 in CA. If you are looking for problems, consider that those people signed up so far are the ones contributing the least to the pool. They will depend on financial subsidies. Others who have already enrolled might be people who are very sick and need to lock in coverage as soon as possible. They represent the most expensive additions to the system. (I don’t have any data to support this, but I think it makes sense).

Finally, states with governments controlled by Republicans have tried to sabotage health care reform, even if it runs counter to their own interests. The sabotage may work. Those states have refused to form their own competitive market places in their states- exchanges- despite claims by conservatives favoring competition in the marketplace, and state rights issues. So much for that! Opposing Obama has been more important than principles. They have turned down federal funding for those exchanges, they have turned down funding for navigators to help people sign up, and they have turned down money to advertise and promote the process as they see fit. In addition, many are turning down federal subsidies for Medicaid enrollments; in other words, Republicans in state governments are literally screwing the uninsured poor into the ground.

Will health care reform work? Eventually, I think so. But I would rather see a Medicare-For-All system, because it would be simpler and more efficient. It would eliminate the private health care insurers, but let’s face it, they are unnecessary middle men. The purpose of the ACA was to allow those middle men, those private health care insurers, to continue to exist. That was the conservative solution. Always was.

Want to see health care reform fail? Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: phx8 at November 12, 2013 12:29 PM
Comment #373982

As a student of Zen Macrobiotics early in my adult life, I can tell you that you could not have picked any worse analogy to use. An excess of either is the cause of most 21st Century maladies from the view point of consumption when the ratio of Yin to Yang is not in balance.

Krauthammer and his opinions are of the same merit as Juan Williams and Alan Colmes. Liberals that have found a solid paycheck by being liberal lap dogs for Faux News. Although Charles is no longer progressive he has no problem attributing the successes of progressive ideas in the 20th Century, as was recently evident during his interview with Jon Stewart on the Daily Show for the promotion of the book you write about.

Posted by: Speak4all at November 12, 2013 12:41 PM
Comment #373983

px, thanks for attempts to blame the state Republicans for trying to sabotage obamacare, but this program is Obama’s and the Democrat’s; it does not belong to any Republicans…it was passed on a straight party vote. Why should Republicans bail out Obama?

PH, You are confused. People can sign up for the ACA without using web sites. They can use the phone. Others, uninsured people on Medicaid, are already signed up- 56,000 in OR, a little more in WA, and 600,000 in CA.

No px, it is you who are confused. The numbers out today are just over 40k signed up for obamacare (phones and web included) and Medicaid is not obamacare. Medicaid is a state run free ins for low income. It is very restrictive with limited doctors and hospitals and is mandated by the feds upon states. The original goal was for obamacare to force states to pick up the whole bill. Medicaid is already broke and yet Obama is trying to put millions more on the program and trying to claim them as insured under obamacare. This is smoke and mirrors…once again.

Tell me px, how many people, who have signed up through obamacare, actually have HC ins??? Provide the link; and not Medicaid.

Obamacare is heading for repeal…

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 1:00 PM
Comment #373984
Krauthammer and his opinions are of the same merit as Juan Williams and Alan Colmes. Liberals that have found a solid paycheck by being liberal lap dogs for Faux News.

Do liberal progressives eat their own offspring…yes they do. If a liberal is on MSNBC or any other socialist MSM outlet…they are true progressives and worthy of being heard. But according to the troll, if they appear on Fox News, they are lap dogs.

Once again we have Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” being applied; this time to liberal progressives. Attack the source and not the substance. Since Colmes and Williams report on Fox News…they must be liars.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 1:11 PM
Comment #373986

Most people provide a link to prove their point. px has chosen to provide a link proving my point:

The first month of the new health law’s rollout reveals an unexpected pattern in several states: a crush of people applying for an expansion of Medicaid and a trickle of sign-ups for private insurance.

This early imbalance — in some places, nine out of 10 enrollees are in Medicaid — has taken some experts by surprise. The Affordable Care Act, which expanded Medicaid to cover millions of the poorest Americans who couldn’t otherwise afford coverage, envisions a more even split with an expanded, robust private market.

The goal of obamacare is to put private insurance out of business and place all Americans under a single payer, government run HC system.

The yawning gap between public and private enrollment is handing Republicans yet another line of criticism against President Obama’s health overhaul — that the law is primarily becoming an expansion of a costly entitlement program.
During the first two weeks of October, Oregon cut its uninsured rate by 10 percent — without signing up a single person for private health insurance.

Instead, a surge of 56,000 Oregonians flocked to the health law’s expansion of Medicaid.

At the same time, technological issues with the state marketplace, called Cover Oregon, prevented the private plans selling there from signing up any Oregonians in October.

In Washington state, officials have reported 42,605 enrollments in the state Medicaid program and 6,390 sign-ups for private insurance.

In Kentucky, the marketplace has received 25,654 Medicaid enrollments, about four times the 5,891 private insurance enrollments submitted.

And in Arkansas, the Medicaid office has reported 70,595 Medicaid applications.

Tell me, who is going to pay for this expanded Medicaid enrollment? How many trillions will it add to our debt?

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 1:56 PM
Comment #373987

Now, even Bill Clinton (America’s first black President) has come out stating that people who were promised they could keep their HC ins (by Obama), should be allowed to keep their HC insurance:

Should we use Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” and attack Clinton, since he has spoken against Obama????

I think Clinton may have an ulterior motive…the survival of the Democratic Party. Since Obama seems bent on destroying it.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 2:04 PM
Comment #373988
Dem Senator Disables Embedding for Health Insurance Pledge Video

In 2010 Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) took to YouTube and promised the people of Virginia that he was “not going to support a health care reform plan that’s going to take away health care that you’ve got right now or a health plan that you like.”

Just like President Obama’s multiple assurances that “if you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance,” Warner’s YouTube assurance is coming back to haunt him.

Someone in the Senator’s office must be concerned about the fact that blogs and news sites have picked up on the broken pledge and have embedded the video on their sites. If a journalist wishes to highlight the Senator’s broken promise, they can no longer embed the video in their post.

Thank God for news outlets like Breitbart, who have saved these condemning you tubes accounts.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 2:15 PM
Comment #373990
It would eliminate the private health care insurers, but let’s face it, they are unnecessary middle men.

Just as the government is, only less so.

Best option is to actually pay for your healthcare directly as you do almost any other product or service…

The hidden benefit would be that people would start living much more healthy lives, instead of being incentivized to flood the healthcare system with the overweight, smoking, etc people getting their healthcare for a song on the backs of the healthy livers…

Live how you want, there are no financial repercussions for your decisions anymore. Why live healthier when you can eat fast food for every meal and smoke 2 packs a day…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 12, 2013 3:35 PM
Comment #373991

Why stop with merely paying for health care directly? Why not go all the way down the road of self-reliance, and have everyone treat themselves? People can learn to operate on themselves and family members, diagnose and prescribe, grow their own penicillin cultures and herbal remedies, spend free time carving artificial limbs, do a little plastic surgery on the side using just a mirror, scalpel, and a bucket to catch the blood- why, we could all be truly responsible for ourselves, and not responsible for anyone else! Now THAT would be freedom! THAT would be liberty!

On “Walking Dead” an old dude tried giving people elderberry tea to ward off zombie-ism. Heh.

Why do we not go all the way down the road of self-reliance? Because we cannot afford the time and the money and the knowledge, and because we sometimes lack the ability or even the awareness that problems exist, or how to treat them, or even how to behave and eat in order to live healthier lives. Because life obviously consists of ups and downs, good decisions and bad one, and as a society, we have the ability to make sure the downs and the bad decisions do not result in death sentences, but instead, a second chance…

Re middle men: Private health insurers insure in order to make a profit. Period. They are incentivized NOT to cover really sick people because that eats into profit, so they will always do everything possible to avoid insuring sick people; and if they must cover them, the charge will be exorbitant.

Government, on the other hand, has no such incentive. There is a good reason Medicare is so much more effective and efficient, and does it with lower administrative costs than private insurers.

The ACA does not allow private health insurers to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions, drop really sick patients through recission, or cap coverage so that serious illnesses result in bankruptcy for the patient. It limits administrative costs to 80% or less for private health insurers, which controls other costs in term.

If the ACA proves too complex to implement (I doubt it), or too many Republican state governments sabotage it (possible), then the obvious, simple alternative was the one liberals always wanted in the first place: Medicare-For-All.

Posted by: phx8 at November 12, 2013 4:04 PM
Comment #373992
If the ACA proves too complex to implement (I doubt it), or too many Republican state governments sabotage it

Oh, I’m sorry…did I miss something…is it state governors who are worried about re-election next year because they refused to set up state exchanges….OR….is it Democrats who voted for Obamacare??? Inquiring minds want to know.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 4:30 PM
Comment #373993

phx8 writes; ” Others who have already enrolled might be people who are very sick and need to lock in coverage as soon as possible. They represent the most expensive additions to the system. (I don’t have any data to support this, but I think it makes sense).”

Yes, it does make sense. I am an insurance agent and I can tell you for certain that if I could insure the otherwise uninsurable I would not be able to keep up with the demand.

phx8 writes; “It would eliminate the private health care insurers, but let’s face it, they are unnecessary middle men.”

Spoken like a true socialist. We could eliminate unnecessary middle men in many industries such as autos, trucks, food, pharmacies, and much more. We could simply eliminate capitalism and replace it with the more desirable liberal “ism”.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 12, 2013 4:49 PM
Comment #373994

Sometimes justice is meted out in strange ways. I can imagine a scenario in which Hillary is the dem nominee for prez and loses the election because of her defense of obamacare.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 12, 2013 4:53 PM
Comment #373995

Royal, this is the reason Clinton is out there saying Obama should do the right thing…the thing he promised the voters.

From the beginning the left has argued that obamacare is not national HC, and when the very idea that Obama wanted a single payer system , the left just threw a fit. But now…the left (i.e. phx8) is calling for the single payer Medicare for all insurance. Once again, those who called it like it was, are vindicated.

The conservatives in Congress who called for a defunding of obamacare or who called for a delay, are also vindicated.

phx8 is with the rest of the left, having an orgasm that 40-50k are signed up for obamacare…but to hell with the 4 1/2 million who have lost their HC. Only in the mind of a socialist can 40+k getting a subsidized HC policy be better than 4-5 million losing their insurance.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 5:03 PM
Comment #373997

Bill Clinton’s comments about Obama’s promise that Americans can keep their insurance is the go ahead signal to all Democrat politicians to complain about obamacare. Watch as more and more Democrats come out and criticize obamacare.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 5:07 PM
Comment #373998

PH is correct. I’m watching the Five of Fox News and Bob Beckle just said the reason Clinton made a statement on Obamacare is to protect the party. He said Clinton puts party above Obama’s presidency. The survival of the party is more important.

Posted by: DSP2195 at November 12, 2013 5:12 PM
Comment #374000

BTW, nice highly-edited list that is created to try to make a point and would pass by most non-critical thinkers…

However, I’m not one of those. Let’s look at the ‘list’ line by line.

Democrat: achievement of foreign policy goals without US casualties or troops on the ground, at minimal cost with minimal violence, and with local forces determining their own future as much as possible.

Please! Like in Afghanistan and Pakistan where drones are killing whole families attending wedding ceremonies and list as ‘suspected terrorists’ any male over the age of 12 so they can say they haven’t killed any civilians?

You know, fostering even greater hatred towards the US as ‘death from the skies’ is rained down upon them? Of course, they’re brown, so…


Interesting, here I thought that Yugoslavia broke apart before Clinton was elected, under the watch and direction of Reagan and Bush. I’ll have to have the history writers rewrite those passages…

“Both Slovenia and Croatia declared their independence on 25 June 1991”

“In November 1991, the Arbitration Commission of the Peace Conference on Yugoslavia, led by Robert Badinter, concluded at the request of Lord Carrington that the SFR Yugoslavia was in the process of dissolution, that the Serbian population in Croatia and Bosnia does not have a right to self-determination in form of new states, and that the borders between the republics are to be recognized as international borders. As a result of the conflict, the United Nations Security Council unanimously adopted UN Security Council Resolution 721 on 27 November 1991, which paved the way to the establishment of peacekeeping operations in Yugoslavia.

In January 1992, Croatia and Yugoslavia signed an armistice under UN supervision, while Negotiations continued between Serb and Croat leaderships over the partitioning of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

On 15 January 1992, the independence of Croatia and Slovenia was recognized worldwide.

Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia would later be admitted as member states of the United Nations on 22 May 1992.”

When did Clinton take office again? I could have sworn it was in January 1993…

Now, Clinton did get us involved in the civil wars in Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Kosovo War, though I don’t know how that dealt with US interests specially, other than putting our noses in where it doesn’t belong… And we did send our troops over there to fight and get killed, so according to you it must have been important. In fact WE’RE STILL THERE. So, we can have that debate, but I don’t see how Democratic ‘leadership’ had a hand in the breakup of Yugoslavia…


You’ll have to help me here, what did the US do in Tunisia?


This Administration had actual bipartisan support for how it handled Libya, something it claims it can’t get from those crazy Republicans, which makes the reason that this administration chose to do so unconstitutionally even more suspect. And annoying. Had it asked for a vote in congress to act in Libya, as it proscribed by law, it would have passed…


Again, what did we do in Egypt SPECIFICIALY?


You mean threatening to bomb them (unconstitutionally) and then have Putin come in and save the day (and help hide their involvement in how they got their chemical weapons in the first place while doing so)? That’s a pretty big Democrat win there… You should feel proud, as you seem to do.

BTW, have you ever asked yourself WHERE Syria got all of those chemical weapons? I am guessing you haven’t.


LOL, what the hell have we accomplished in Iran? Other than ‘more of the same’?

Now, can we deal with the issues you left OFF the list?

* Complete failure in dealing with Iraq during Clinton’s administration leading to the situation we were presented with in 2003 where no weapons inspector could say weather or not Iraq had any chemical weapons remaining from their ordered destruction, which were supposed to be destroyed under UN inspectors 120 days after the Iraq war cease fire. This including bombings in Iraq and the al-shifa chemical plant that resulted in a complete unverified and unknown situation.

* Complete failure of the Clinton administration to deal with the rising threat of al Qaeda after the attacks on US embassies and the USS Cole.

* Killing OBL instead of bringing him in to face justice, and then dumping his body into the sea so that it could not be verified to be him. (It has been argued that he actually

* Staying in Afghanistan for years after we should have been out.

* Failure to close or deal with Guantanamo Bay, leaving over 150 ‘prisoners’ there who are not being appropriately dealt with or given their rights.

* Trying to leave troops in Iraq in opposition to the US desires and the agreements put in place by Iraq and Bush.

* Increased spying on our citizens and allies, including the Pope, by the NSA incurring the ire of our allies.

* Using drones to kill ‘suspected terrorists’, including Americans, without trial or even an accusation of guilt, including any 12 year old boy, increasing their hatred and fear of the US, creating a whole new list of reasons for people to strike out against the US.

You’re biased view of how great Democrats ‘run the world’ is understandable, but it doesn’t pass the sniff test at all…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 12, 2013 5:32 PM
Comment #374001
Why stop with merely paying for health care directly? Why not go all the way down the road of self-reliance, and have everyone treat themselves?

You’re understanding of ‘self reliance’ is asinine and only created to alleviate your knowledge that using guns to force people to do what you want them to do is inhuman…

Self-Reliance means being able to negotiate a fair exchange of your assets with another to perform services you want or need. You know, paying a doctor for performing services on you.

Making the completely illogical leap that you either operate on yourself or you allow the government to put guns to people’s heads to pay for your healthcare as our only two choices is why we are in the state of affairs right now.

Your assertion that we either have anarchy or totalitarianism is a false choice if ever there was one. And if that is how you want to defend your views, you have to realize if you won’t admit it that you are failing in convincing anyone but the initiated…

Private health insurers insure in order to make a profit. Period.

a) I guess you don’t know that a large percentage of insurance companies run as non-profits (or they did until the government made them not operate that way anymore).

b) Insurance is a gamble/scam that insures that you will always pay more for your healthcare than you use, unless you ‘win the lottery’ and get real sick. If you just pay for it directly, it would cost less (once we stop the practice of overcharging non-insured patrons).

c) You may think that the panacea is ‘Medicaid for all’, but there is a reason that more and more doctors are refusing to take Medicaid patients. Once the new rules are fully in place, more and more doctors will either quit the practice or go outside of the insurance scamming altogether. This is already happening with doctors deciding to offer services at a low discount or for a monthly fee for non-insured users.

A representative of one primary care provider organization, speaking to MedPage Today on background, said some rates were 70% lower than traditional preferred provider network plans, adding that plans were trying to make provider rates as low as possible to keep premiums equally low.

“Initial hearsay information is that payment rates being offered by [marketplace] plans are quite low in at least some of the states,” a federal affairs representative for a second primary care provider group said. “What that means is that fewer providers will sign up.”

Read that again: “some rates were 70% lower than traditional preferred provider network plans.” Whatever industry you’re in, can you imagine having to take a 70 percent haircut to your pay from any customer or group of customers and continuing to work with them? Could you keep your doors open if that was across the board?

Much press coverage so far has focused on the disastrous rollout of the health exchanges and the difficulty patients have had in signing up for plans. Wait until Obamacare enrollees find out that they have an insurance card that isn’t worth a damn.

70% reduction in paying for services? That’ll get people to the medical colleges in droves!

Government, on the other hand, has no such incentive.

No, there incentive is to use force to arbitrarily keep prices low so it costs the government less money, to the point of driving many out of the profession. Then there is the incentive they have to make healthcare a political debate, what and who should be covered how based on who is in office. What can they reward their constituents at the cost of their opponents? When a Republican takes over this great healthcare plan and decides that abortions and birth control should no longer be covered, you can blame yourself for giving them that power in the first place, congrats.

There is a good reason Medicare is so much more effective and efficient, and does it with lower administrative costs than private insurers.

Yes, because it is a lie. The books are not apples to oranges and it can only be done by playing games with the reports. Furthermore, the QUALITY of care that they get is not nearly as good.

This article examines the extent to which a patient’s type or lack of insurance may also play a role in determining the quality of care received at any given hospital. We compared within-hospital quality, as measured by risk-adjusted mortality rates, for patients according to their insurance status. We examined the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality’s innovative Inpatient Quality Indicators and pooled 2006–08 State Inpatient Database records from eleven states. We found that privately insured patients had lower risk-adjusted mortality rates than did Medicare enrollees for twelve out of fifteen quality measures examined. To a lesser extent, privately insured patients also had lower risk-adjusted mortality rates than those in other payer groups. Medicare patients appeared particularly vulnerable to receiving inferior care.

Remember that Medicare has trillions of dollars in unfunded liabilities. It can report that administrative costs are low by hiding those costs because it doesn’t have to ‘answer to a board’ or act financially responsible, just print/borrow more money. In addition, it can only do so by hiding

In sum, the laws of economics say that government cannot subsidize demand for services and respect freedom of choice and fulfill its promise to “bend the cost curve downward.” Something will have to give. That something will be freedom of choice. As subsidized demand pushes up prices, government will impose service restrictions or price controls (it’s already happening with doctor and hospital reimbursements). This in turn will create shortages and long queues, which the government will contend with through rationing, that is, limits on choice.

The laws of economics have not been repealed by the ACA. So how do we assure that all people will have access to good and affordable medical care? By permitting the evolution of a purely voluntary society. Conservatives claim that the pre-ACA medical system was the “best in the world.” It was their blindness to the corrupt corporatism of that system, with a price inflation that harmed all but the wealthiest, that helped pave the ground for the ACA.

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 12, 2013 6:00 PM
Comment #374003

Are those conspiracy theorists on the left really capsizing?

You leftwing southpaws just can’t get it thru your noggin. The left, with Obama in charge, are the groupies that can’t get their so called health plan off the ground.

I want to set the record straight.

KS is an outsider that is trying to bring the ACA to fruition. Bless her soul she is working hard to spread false tales just to show she is on the side she wants to be on.

Then Debbie WS tells those lies that are too many to count. I think she lies for every flash of he eyes that remind me of the clickity-clack of a train

Then Carney, not to be confused with Art, tries to be a comedian but gets tangled up with his punch lines.

Then you southpaws here on WB just gobble up all those tales as if it were your favorite pie a-la-mode.

Here is your caveat. Don’t choke or slobber. You might need one of those substandard plans.

Posted by: tom humes at November 12, 2013 6:26 PM
Comment #374005

Tom, did you happen to catch Debbie Wasserman-Shultz getting caught reading from a script in one of her ‘interviews’?

The ONLY way you can mispronounce ‘misled’ as ‘myzled’ is if you are reading it…

All modern news is a joke. Might as well get your news from The Daily Show. Oh wait, most on the left already do…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 12, 2013 6:30 PM
Comment #374006

Rhinehold, that is hilarious. I wonder if is a staff person who could not spell, or a staff person who was setting her up? No matter, like Obama, she needs the TP to get her talking points out.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 12, 2013 6:39 PM
Comment #374008

there are some on the left that you can do a word count that they spew and tally up the lies. DWS is on team one.

maybe I should make up a team roster for the four major sports and assign a player to each position. for instance in hockey starting defense would be Reid and Durbin. In goal is Sibellius. starting at left wing would be Schummer, center would be McCain and Obama would be in the penalty box serving a game misconnduct for impersonating a hockey player in the position of right wing

Posted by: tom humes at November 12, 2013 9:47 PM
Comment #374017

For several years (since Obama has been the president and Republicans have been able to block his socialist agenda), Stephen Daugherty and others (you know who you are) have cried their eyes out that Congressional Representatives and Senators are sent to DC to do what is right for the nation…not represent their constituents. They believe the rights of the whole usurp the rights of states or districts. They claimed the Democrats had the right and OBLIGATION to vote for obamacare, even though over 50% of Americans were against it; but now we have 12-15 Democrat Senators, who are facing re-election, that are calling for a fix to Obama’s lies, “You like your insurance, you can keep your insurance”. It is so bad that I just watched Senator Dianne Feinstein, Dem. CA…who just came out and said, “I have received over 250,000 calls from Californians who have had their insurance policies cancelled, and I hear them, and we must do something to fix this problem”. We are talking about the liberal of all liberals (Feinstein) complaining that Obama lied to the American people and have placed them in jeopardy with their HC inurance, and now it is time for the Congress to fix the problem.

As I have said many times, as time goes by, more and more information will come out; so the spin talk from the left will be placed in the proper container…to use an old Navy term…”the shit can”.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 13, 2013 10:47 AM
Comment #374019

You’ve got to love this:

Americans 34 Times More Interested In Buying Guns Than Obamacare

So the American people are 34 times more afraid of the government than they are the lack of HC insurance.

Posted by: DSP2195 at November 13, 2013 11:28 AM
Comment #374027

It’s never ending; we now have 1 million Californians losing their HC insurance. No wonder Feinstein is breaking with Obama:

Calif. Insurance Commissioner: More Than 1M Californians Having Insurance Cancelled Due To ACA

November 12, 2013 3:10 PM

More than 1 million cancellation notices have been sent to Californians as the Affordable Care Act begins allowing individuals to buy insurance through exchanges, Jones said. The federal law requires policies to offer minimum levels of coverage, forcing companies to terminate many existing plans…

The left knew this would happen…they were told in 2010 what would happen. It was told on the floor of the Congress. Wait until the employer mandate kicks in in Jan 2015. What does the left think will happen as the 2014 election gets closer and millions of individual Americans lose their ins and the cost of their policies skyrocket? Then the millions of employees get a face to face look at what will happen to them on 1/2015, when the employer exemption expires. I will say it again, we are seeing the demise of the Democrat Party.

Is there a liberal progressive out there that is capable of having some Nads and saying the Obama agenda has failed?

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 13, 2013 1:17 PM
Comment #374028
Why. Let’s face it, politics is confusing. Sometimes it’s difficult to know who to believe, who to listen to and who to support. We’re here to help. Posting on a regular basis are editors representing each major party. Stay informed.

These are the words found in the heading of the WB site. It’s a good thing I’m not an editor; as a retired person, I have nothing but time to “Stay Informed”.

It is for this reason I post this article by Michael Goodwin. The left on WB have defended Obama’s lies for 5 years. Anyone who accused him of lying (I personally believe, if his lips are moving, he is lying), has been attacked by those liberal progressives on WB as simply personal attacks. But here is a great article showing that Obama has lost all credibility:

When I first saw the headline saying Bill Clinton was advising President Obama to “honor his commitment,” I had to laugh. The idea of Monica Lewinsky’s boyfriend as moral referee always cracks me up.

Then I got to wondering. Which commitment was Clinton talking about?

Is it the one Obama made to the Israeli people, that he had their backs and would never let Iran get a nuclear weapon? Or was it his promise to enforce a “red line” in Syria?

Or maybe it was Obama’s promise to “never rest” until we caught the terrorists who killed our ambassador and three other Americans in Libya?

Or was Clinton talking about the many times the president said he would “never rest” until every American who wanted a job had one?

Or maybe he was talking about the pledge to change the tone in Washington? Or to go through the budget “line by line” and cross out the waste driving up the deficit?

You get the picture — any of those whoppers would qualify. But, of course, Clinton was talking about the broken promise of the moment, the one where Obama vowed that “if you like your health insurance, you can keep it.”

It ranks as one of the biggest presidential lies of modern times, all the more so because Obama repeated it 30 times. The fallout of millions being forced from their policies, an experience exacerbated by the hapless Web site, has created a crisis of confidence so vast, it threatens to swallow the second term.

The result of Obama’s lies are reflected in the latest polls:

ObamaCare is breaking that bond — and creating a domino effect. The public is turning ever harder against his policies, with only 31 percent now supporting him on the economy and 32 percent on immigration in the latest Pew poll.

Most important, they are also giving a thumbs-down on his overall performance. Pew finds that only 41 percent approve of his handling of the presidency, down 14 points since December, while 53 percent disapprove. And Quinnipiac late Tuesday found he’s hit a new low with 39 percent approval, while a majority said he’s not honest.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 13, 2013 1:38 PM
Comment #374029

It’s never ending:

11 ObamaCare Ads So Desperate Only Pathetic Losers Think They’re Cool

Obama promoting sexual promiscuity among the younger generation. This is disgusting, but what else can we expect from a degenerate liar???

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 13, 2013 2:04 PM
Comment #374030

Thanks for the link to those disgusting obamacare ads PH. The message seems to be…have sex and drink at the expense of someone else. Yahoo…isn’t obama just wonderful.

Posted by: Royal Flush at November 13, 2013 3:58 PM
Comment #374032

Ahh…the lie continues:

‘Substandard” and “cut-rate” is what President Obama calls the health plans that millions of Americans have lost, even though they wanted to keep them.

Backpedaling on his promise that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan,” Obama is now telling Americans another whopper: The insurance they can get on ObamaCare exchanges is a better deal.

Don’t believe him.

On the exchanges, you may no longer be able to use the doctors and hospitals you prefer. Many exchange plans exclude the top-drawer academic hospitals like Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles, the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and New York Presbyterian in New York City.

Instead, the law says exchange plans must cover care at “essential community providers … that serve predominantly low-income, medically underserved individuals.” (Sec. 1311c(1)C) That means clinics, public hospitals and hospitals largely serving the Medicaid community.

Read More At Investor’s Business Daily:

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 13, 2013 4:24 PM
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