Obamacare Flop

Nothing surprises me anymore. It’s no shock that the number of people who would sign up for “Obamacare” was significantly exaggerated. I’m also not surprised by Jimmy Kimmel’s viral video interviewing people on the street who have absolutely no clue that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing. Perhaps, it’s those people who are “Googling” a search query for Obamacare application, without any result?

It wouldn't matter if they found the right result because the website doesn't work anyway. They anticipate the website will be fully functioning by the end of November, giving folks about two weeks to settle their insurance situations before they start dishing out fines. Awesome!

Obamacare Meme.jpg

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Posted by bigtex at October 29, 2013 5:27 PM
Comments
Comment #373517

This man is a habitual liar. Nothing he has told the American people has been the truth. Obama had to lie and trick the American people in order to get the support to pass this debacle. It will be very interesting to see what the voters will do in 2014. I hope every piece of shit that supported obamacare pays the ultimate price next year.

Posted by: Frank at October 30, 2013 5:45 PM
Comment #373521

My idea of insurance is that it is .. insurance. It protects against big things. Predictable things, I pay for myself. I don’t take out “food insurance,” since I know I will have to eat regularly. Insurance makes no sense. Does anybody here think it would be a good idea to buy “food insurance”. The premiums would have to exceed the amount of food you received, since there is 100% chance you will need to use the “insurance” and there would be costs associated with administering the program.

The insurance I would like is exactly what Obama doesn’t want me to have.

As I read in WSJ - The White House has issued a clarification. When the president said if you like your insurance plan you can keep it, what he meant was you can keep it if he likes it.

Posted by: CJ at October 30, 2013 5:54 PM
Comment #373522

It was hilarious to watch people sound so intelligent about obamacare when they didn’t even know that it is the same as the ACA.

These are the very same people that the dems pay to vote with pork.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 30, 2013 5:58 PM
Comment #373527

I’m quite certain that the number of people who have lost their current health plan actually outnumber the amount of people who’ve actually signed up for the ACA!

But we won’t know for awhile because of a whole number of excuses by Sebelius, Obama, Jay Carney and every other fibber.

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 30, 2013 8:00 PM
Comment #373531

“My idea of insurance is that it is .. insurance. It protects against big things. Predictable things, I pay for myself.”

So, where does that lead us, C&J? Health insurance should be limited to high deductible, catastrophic insurance?

It is not a new proposal but would require a sea change in how health insurance is perceived and utilized in the US as well as a substantial change in how health care is delivered.

The problem with the high deductible plans, even when coupled with an HSA, is that they are a disincentive for primary, preventive and chronic care due to the high out of pocket costs. The other major problem is that out of pocket costs increase dramatically over the course of a lifetime.

It seems to me that the key to making such plans work is to address the problem of significant out of pocket and the escalating costs as age increases. HSAs are a viable adjunct option if started early in life. When young and healthy, you can amass a large tax fee account to weather the inevitable aging medical needs. But, will most take advantage? What happens to those who don’t or won’t plan for the future? What happens to those who didn’t have the opportunity to fund HSAs in their younger years?

I think that the best approach, previously put forth by Rhinehold and Charles in SC, is a national single payer type catastrophic plan coupled with HSAs or private supplemental gap type insurance. I would add a phase in process with lower deductible requirement for older workers who were unable to fully fund HSAs or alternative approaches in their younger years.

It seems to me that this type of plan is an excellent compromise between liberals and conservatives. It will go nowhere.


Posted by: Rich at October 30, 2013 9:29 PM
Comment #373538

Rich

It leads us to insurance. My analogy with food is operative. If your “insurance” provide lots of routine things that everybody needs to buy during a normal year, it is not insurance. Insurance is based on probabilities that you will NOT use it. Consider the insurer. If I am 100% sure that you will need to replace your car this year, what should your premium be?

ObamaCare is not insurance. It is redistribution of wealth, since many people will simply not be paying for the services. I don’t necessarily oppose this kind of thing, but we are learning that ObamaCare will be gold plated, i.e. cover everything.

I mentioned in an earlier note about my experience with a broken big toe. In Norway, they pulled it back into place and told me to limp for a while. In the U.S. one of my coworkers was issued an electric cart to drive around and stay off her toe. She didn’t need this and would not have paid for it if she was asked to pay for it. But she would - did - demand it if it was free TO HER.

European countries supply health care, but they ration it. Even then, they have significant problems with cost and access. We seem to be opening the gates to all the hypochondriacs and malingerers. We will pay for expensive sex change operations and things like spinal fusion that often makes patients worse off. We have taken the most expensive system in the world and merely extended it. Now prudent people will be on the hook for the profligate and our general level of care will decline.

Beyond the health care problem, we actually need a biomedical debate. We spend more money on the last year of life than we do on the others. Maybe we need to understand when it is time to give up. Don’t save that badly deformed baby, who has not chance of living a normal life. Let the old guy meet his maker, rather than prolong a supine cyborg existence.

Posted by: CJ at October 31, 2013 4:53 AM
Comment #373544

I’d like to see the nation bear down on this issue of congress exempting themselves from ACA.

Posted by: Roy Ellis at October 31, 2013 10:25 AM
Comment #373551

If single payer system does come to fruition, there will be a whole host of other items that a number of people have said no, no, that is not going to happen.

Such as death panels. Such as rationing which lead up to the aforementioned panel. And on and on.

Posted by: tom humes at October 31, 2013 1:37 PM
Comment #373555

C/J is correct, “ObamaCare is not insurance.”

I am a licensed insurance agent. Insurance is a product that must be purchased before it is needed or it is simply not available at any price.

Insurance policies are issued or not and priced to reflect the risk involved.

Please tell me the insurance company that would insure your home while it is burning, your car just minutes after the accident, or your life just after you die?

obamacare is, as C/J wrote, a scheme to redistribute wealth.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 31, 2013 2:50 PM
Comment #373564

“I’d like to see the nation bear down on this issue of congress exempting themselves from ACA.”

That would be difficult, Roy, since Congress and their staff are not exempt from the ACA.

Congress and their staff are required by the ACA to receive their health insurance through exchanges created under the Act or by programs established under the Act.

The Federal Office of Personnel recently ruled that Congress and their staff must receive health insurance in 2014 through a business program established under the Act which provides for an exchange (market) for businesses which desire to contribute to employee health insurance but don’t actually contract or operate their own self funded employer group insurance.

Posted by: Rich at October 31, 2013 5:09 PM
Comment #373566

I want to report on something hat has just been revealed. I would have posted it on Daugherty’s essay in the blue column, but that dead horse has been beat long enough.

Have you ever been involved in 7 to 10 year old girls slumber party? Little girls run around screaming and shouting and nothing they say makes sense. The left (Democrat Party) are like these little girls, running around and screaming and shouting, but nothing they say makes sense. We have heard them ever since they lost the majority in the House, and especially since the revelations of the numerous Obama scandals. We have heard them over the past few weeks regarding the so called shutdown. We have heard them over the past month of the obamacare meltdown. But, some people work slowly and methodically and get the job done. It’s easy for the left to run around saying “It’s bush’s fault”…”It’s the Republican’s fault”…”It’s the Tea Parties fault”…and on and on. But thinking people work logically and methodically, through the legal system, to come to the truth. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause legal system and a Constitution. Why does the left HATE the Constitution, why do they hate the laws; because the Constitution and Laws are absolutes…they are the anchors on which this republic is founded. Now, you may be saying, why is PH talking about this topic? Because today we have new news concerning Lois Lerner…yes, the same Lois Lerner who claimed the 5th. Why did she claim the 5th?

Well it turned out that:

IRS’ Lois Lerner gave confidential Tea Party tax info to FEC, violating law

Yes, Lois Lerner committed a felony and gave confidential tax payer information to the FEC:

The Internal Revenue Service shared highly confidential tax information of several Tea Party groups in the IRS scandal with the Federal Election Commission, a clear violation of federal law, according to newly obtained emails.

The public watchdog group Judicial Watch told Secrets Thursday that it was former scandal boss Lois Lerner who shared the information on groups including the American Future Fund and the American Issues Project.

The emails obtained by Judicial Watch show that the IRS, which was considering the tax status of the groups, gave the FEC the tax returns of the groups, including income, expenditures and staff pay. The emails also revealed the exact working of the prying political questions the IRS wanted the groups to reveal, such as their goals and the requests for brochures and ads.

The information, sent via email, to the FEC came in response to the organization’s questions about whether the IRS had granted tax-exempt status to the Tea Party groups. It is unclear how the information the IRS sent was going to help the FEC, since the IRS hadn’t determined the tax status of the groups yet.

The emails were produced to Judicial Watch last week by the FEC in response to an Aug. 9, 2013, Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.

The email chain began Feb. 3, 2009, when the FEC made it’s request to Lerner.

She emailed back 10 minutes later, and said: “I have sent your email out to some of my staff. Will get back to you as soon as I have heard from them.”

According to Judicial Watch, the materials “from the IRS’ files sent from Lerner to the FEC containing detailed, confidential information about the organizations. These include annual tax returns (Forms 990) and request for exempt recognition forms (Form 1024), Articles of Organization and other corporate documents, and correspondence between the nonprofit organizations and the IRS. Under Section 6103 of the Internal Revenue Code, it is a felony for an IRS official to disclose either ‘return information or ‘taxpayer return information,’ even to another government agency.”

http://washingtonexaminer.com/irs-lois-lerner-gave-confidential-tea-party-group-tax-info-to-fec-violating-law/article/2538263

Now when we add this information to the latest claims that the Obama administration threaten Insurance Company Exec’s to not release information about cutting policies; we find a pattern of corruption.

(CNN) — White House officials have pressured insurance industry executives to keep quiet amid mounting criticism over Obamacare’s rollout, insurance industry sources told CNN.

After insurance officials publicly criticized the implementation, White House staffers contacted insurers to express their displeasure, industry insiders said.

Multiple sources declined to speak publicly about the push back because they fear retribution.

But Bob Laszewski, who heads a consulting firm for big insurance companies, did talk on the record.

“The White House is exerting massive pressure on the industry, including the trade associations, to keep quiet,” he said.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 31, 2013 5:18 PM
Comment #373567

“C/J is correct, “ObamaCare is not insurance.”

Obamacare and Romneycare are no different than any other health insurance. It is private individual insurance purchased on a market. The pooled risk (community rating) is no different than large group employer insurance or for individual insurance purchased in many states.

If Obamacare is not insurance, then most current health insurance is not insurance.

C&J may be correct about the nature of health insurance in general but his point is not unique to Obamacare or Romneycare.

“Insurance policies are issued or not and priced to reflect the risk involved.”

If we strictly allowed that approach, health insurance would be very cheap for the young and healthy but extremely expensive for the older and sicker. Unfortunately, the young get old. The healthy get sick. Its 100% certain. The only reasonable approach is to pool the entire risk and price accordingly. If automobile insurers knew that every excellent driver with an exceptional record would inevitably and predictably be involved in increasing accidents and ultimately a catastrophic accident, what would the best approach to risk pricing? It would be to pool across the total risk. That is why health insurance must be pooled across all risk groups. Otherwise, the state will be only party responsible for the health care of the older and sicker.

Posted by: Rich at October 31, 2013 5:36 PM
Comment #373569

PH, Judicial Watch is a great watchdog over illegal government actions.

Rich wrote; “The pooled risk (community rating) is no different than large group employer insurance or for individual insurance purchased in many states.”

Well that simply is false. If you are an employee of a company and offered group health insurance you make a decision to participate or not. If you elect not to participate, you have no coverage. And, should you need health care, insurance is not available to you as you chose to decline coverage.

Rich wrote; “Otherwise, the state will be only party responsible for the health care of the older and sicker.”

There lies the fallacy. The state should not be responsible for insurance. States provide health care for the indigent which is not insurance, but welfare.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 31, 2013 6:06 PM
Comment #373570

From a recent article from the National Review Online:

Bold emphasis is mine…

President Obama’s aides went to extraordinary lengths to uncover the identity of a senior official who was using Twitter to make snarky comments about White House staffers. Suspicion gradually centered on Jofi Joseph, the point man on nuclear nonproliferation at the National Security Council. So at a meeting in which everyone was in on the scam an inaccurate but innocuous news tidbit was revealed. When Joseph used his anonymous Twitter handle #natlsecwonk to broadcast the tidbit he was caught and promptly fired. He was not fired for revealing any secrets, but for making disparaging comments about thin-skinned administration players ranging from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel.

What apparently intensified the campaign to identify the “snarker” was a comment about Valerie Jarrett, the senior Obama adviser who has her own Secret Service detail and appears to exercise an inordinate amount of power behind the scenes. Joseph tweeted “I’m a fan of Obama, but his continuing reliance and dependence upon a vacuous cipher like Valerie Jarrett concerns me.”

Jarrett, an old Chicago friend of both Barack and Michelle Obama, appears to exercise such extraordinary influence she is sometimes quietly referred to as “Rasputin” on Capitol Hill, a reference to the mystical monk who held sway over Russia’s Czar Nicholas as he increasingly lost touch with reality during World War I.

Darrell Delamaide, a columnist for Dow Jones’s MarketWatch, says that “what has baffled many observers is how Jarrett, a former cog in the Chicago political machine and a real-estate executive, can exert such influence on policy despite her lack of qualifications in national security, foreign policy, economics, legislation or any of the other myriad specialties the president needs in an adviser.”

Delamaide believes the term “vacuous cipher” that was applied to Jarrett stung so much because it could be used as a metaphor for the administration in general. He writes that what “has remained consistent about the Obama administration is that vacuity — the slow response in a crisis, the hesitant and contradictory communication, a lack of conviction and engagement amid constant political calculation.” The stunning revelation that President Obama wasn’t kept properly apprised of problems with Obamacare’s website is just the latest example of how dysfunctional Obama World can be.

Whether Jarrett’s influence is all too real or exaggerated is unknowable. What is known is the extent to which she has long been a peerless enabler of Barack Obama’s inflated opinion of himself. Consider this quote from New Yorker editor David Remnick’s interview with her for his 2010 book The Bridge.

“I think Barack knew that he had God-given talents that were extraordinary. He knows exactly how smart he is… . He knows how perceptive he is. He knows what a good reader of people he is. And he knows that he has the ability — the extraordinary, uncanny ability — to take a thousand different perspectives, digest them and make sense out of them, and I think that he has never really been challenged intellectually… . So what I sensed in him was not just a restless spirit but somebody with such extraordinary talents that had to be really taxed in order for him to be happy… . He’s been bored to death his whole life. He’s just too talented to do what ordinary people do.”

KL: I can define what Jarrett said in one word. But I’ll use just three (3) words:

He’s a narcissist.

As a court flatterer of that caliber it’s no surprise that Jarrett has outlasted almost everyone who was in Obama’s original White House team — from chief of staff Rahm Emanuel to political guru David Axelrod to Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. All are known to have crossed her, and all are gone. As one former Obama aide once told me: “Valerie is ‘She Who Must Not be Challenged.’”

When the revealing histories of the Obama White House are written it will be fascinating to learn just how extensive her role in the key decisions of the Obama years was.


Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 31, 2013 6:11 PM
Comment #373571

Royal Flush,

I was referring to the distribution of risk and premiums across age groups and health in a company.

The issue of “free riders” is a concern. That is what the “soft mandate” of tax penalties is all about. Perhaps the initial penalty should be higher to discourage avoidance of health insurance. It will escalate in coming years.

Now, you say, but nobody should be required to purchase private health insurance. All well and good if we as a society were willing to let people die in the streets or on the doors of a hospital. But, we are not. So, who picks up the tab for the uninsured?

Conservatives reject the analogy of car insurance which is mandatory. They say, well nobody is required to own a car. Yea, well try living in this society without a car. So, mandatory car insurance is a de facto requirement.

One of the key arguments of conservatives for Romneycare was that it encouraged personal responsibility. Everyone had an obligation to contribute to the overall financing of health care. No free riders.

Now, you say, well Obamacare provides subsidies. True but on a sliding income scale. Everyone will be obligated to expend their own funds to purchase insurance on the exchanges. As I have pointed out in the past, the vast majority of insurance, employer group insurance, is already subsidized by the federal goverment. It is the largest tax exclusion by miles in the federal tax code.

Posted by: Rich at October 31, 2013 6:30 PM
Comment #373573

Rich

Free riders are a concern, but the bigger concern are the wimps and weenies who overuse a health plan. Some things cannot be cured at reasonable cost. I was in a car accident. My neck has hurt sometimes for the last twenty-three years as a result. It cannot be fixed, but doctors could try.

I used to have problems with “sick” employees, who came down with ill defined aliments on Mondays and Fridays. They went to doctors for this, but never seemed to get any better or worse.

Think of all those machines we now can deploy. Is it really worth it to save someone for a few weeks who will never get better?

Beyond that, many ailments are lifestyle related. People who are fat or don’t exercise are much sicker. I would like to charge these people more.

I knew a woman at work who was so fat that her ankles actually cracked. Her health care covered it and she got them fixed. I worked with her for two years. About two years after her expensive operation to fix her bones, she cracked them again, since she stayed fat as a baby hippo.

I know this is not a particularly political point of view, but I just don’t like weaklings. I want to force them to grow stronger or leave me alone. Putting them all in my risk group makes them my problem.

Posted by: CJ at October 31, 2013 6:42 PM
Comment #373574

Interesting post Kevin. Thanks!

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 31, 2013 6:44 PM
Comment #373575

C&J,

Reasonable points.

An unhealthy society will bankrupt itself trying to repair and manage the damage with expensive medical treatment that could have been avoided in the first place.

I agree that making health lifestyle members pay for the unhealthy lifestyles of what is fast becoming the majority is unfair.

I also agree with your past points about end of life medical care. Unfortunately, that discussion was sidetracked with “death panel” allegations.

I also suspect that with all the focus on financing medical care not enough discussion has been on what we are getting for all this money. Obamacare has a number of provisions related to effective medicine and outcome team oriented reimbursement. But, those provisions have received very little scrutiny and discussion.

The lifestyle issue and effectiveness of the medical industry deserves vastly more attention. A physically fit nation would go a long way to reducing medical costs. An industry focused on outcome rather than a fragmented group of specialists would be also contribute to reducing overall costs.

Posted by: Rich at October 31, 2013 7:31 PM
Comment #373580

Rich

A guy whose opinion I value is Ezekiel Emmanuel. He is a liberal and brother to Rahm. This does not endear me to people on the right or left. It is not that I agree with everything he says, but I think that he is willing to ask the hard questions that we will need to ask.

Posted by: CJ at October 31, 2013 10:28 PM
Comment #373585

Rich

If you could step back from where we are now and try to get consensus on just one point with regard to healthcare what would it be? I believe that most people in this country would say that at some point society is responsible for the wellbeing of its citizens and its visitors. That includes rich, poor, working, dependent, legal and illegal. Step one, therefore, should be to define that responsibility in terms of financial and level of care.

Universal Catastrophic Coverage would have been a much better starting point if you really wanted to make this work. You could set a limit, say $10k per year and $500k lifetime, for everyone. Because it is catastrophic care the State would be in a much better position to decide the level of care afforded to those receiving benefits and to decide the hard end of life questions CJ raises. You might think such a plan would do much but by having it in place you significantly adjusted the actuary tables of other programs like Medicaid, Medicare, and private insurance. And having it in place would provide the cover needed to adjust those programs that are busting our budget (if we had one).

There’s plenty of work to be done after UCC, most notably in the area of tax reform. But to build a house you start with a foundation and that’s exactly what UCC provides. Unfortunately our President started down the road of a half-baked progressive ideal (he gave up on single payer before he started) in an effort, as best I can tell, to mess things up so badly that a real deal would have to be reached later.

I did some simple math back in 2009 and calculated that most people would take the fine over buying insurance in the exchange. I used my friend as a barometer; he is married with one kid and has no insurance. Sure enough he’s ready to pay the fine knowing that if he gets sick they will just sign him up for Medicaid anyway. I bet others will make the same choice. What king of casino would let you bet on the number after the dice are rolled?

Posted by: George in SC at November 1, 2013 9:02 AM
Comment #373586

George in SC; there were a couple articles out in the past week, that there is a way to get out of paying the penalty. The IRS, according to the ACA law, does not have the authority to garnishee wages, place liens, or go after assets. The only authority the IRS has is to deduct the penalty from the Federal tax returns. If a person does not pay extra funds into the Fed taxes, there will be no place for the IRS to deduct. This creates 2 problems for the Feds; first, it causes them to not be able to collect the penalty, and second, if the American people understand this, it will cut the weekly and monthly income tax deductions to the Federal Government. People will have to pay taxes, but those taxes won’t come out until April 15th. There are always loopholes in the laws. There was a report out a couple of days ago, that people who were losing their HC ins policies, could between now and end of Dec, sign a 1 year pre-obamacare contract with the ins companies. This would postpone the implementation of the ACA mandated ins for only one year, but it would cut the needed taxes that the law needs. From my understanding, obamacare needs at least 7 million young healthy people to buy the insurance or pay the penalty. Once these young people understand they don’t have to buy the insurance, or pay the penalty…what do you think they will do?

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 9:30 AM
Comment #373587

George in SC,
I am a good example of someone who is uninsured and would like insurance for myself and my wife. I looked at insurance policies before the ACA, and in at least one case, could not obtain good insurance due to pre-existing conditions; in another, faced premiums that were outrageously high; and in yet another case, did not want the insurance coverage because it was cheap, yet lame, and didn’t cover much of anything.

If insurance under the ACA is too expensive, then I will pay the fee. However, from what I see on the quotes for the Oregon site, the insurance is very affordable, ranging between $600 and $800 a month, depending on the policy and level of coverage. One commenter, Political Hostage, could not believe how low the premiums were on the site. He was just sure someone from the insurance company would enter the picture and change the prices due to pre-existing conditions. The understanding of the ACA among the public is abysmal, and an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty over health care reform continues to be encouraged by the GOP.

One problem with going with only catastrophic coverage is that if fails to address the fundamental need to reform health care. It needs to go from the previous philosophy of treatment, to a philosophy of prevention. ‘An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.’ The ACA stresses prevention by including a wide range of free services for preventative health care.

Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 11:18 AM
Comment #373588
The ACA stresses prevention by including a wide range of free services for preventative health care.

I don’t that work means what you think it means…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 1, 2013 11:41 AM
Comment #373589

The prices of services are ultimately included in premiums. The prices of the premiums are reduced in turn by having insurance providers compete in state exchanges, as well as through limitations on the amount of ‘administrative expenses’ insurance companies can charge. Finally, preventative services serve very large amounts of money over the long haul.

There is a good reason the US pays more per capita than any other industrialized country in the world for its health care- and the lack of preventative care is one of those causes.

Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 11:52 AM
Comment #373590
There is a good reason the US pays more per capita than any other industrialized country in the world for its health care- and the lack of preventative care is one of those causes.

Well, that’s an opinion I suppose. There are more obvious reasons, but I don’t think you would like to address those, since your party hasn’t for some time.

For instance, the level of administration expenses insurance companies charge are a direct result of government regulation in their business to begin with. Coupled with the need for large malpractice costs.

But let’s look at the actual preventative side of things…

Most insurance companies already pay for preventative services. It is in their best interests to do so, if they can keep you healthier, you won’t need to have higher cost procedures, therefore they make more money. My insurance policy is like this, any preventative visit to my primary care physician incurs no co-pay.

The problem isn’t that it isn’t already cheaper to use preventative services, it is. The problem is that people are not availing themselves of it. People choose to live unhealthy lifestyles because it doesn’t cross their minds, isn’t a priority and they have no incentive to do so.

So, if they aren’t already using these ‘free’ preventative services that they already have, how is ACA supposed to change that?

Are you going to put a gun to their heads and MAKE people go have physicals every year or six months?

The problem, phx8, is the mindset we have that everything is someone else’s problem, backed up by the fact that we protect people from bad choices so much. Your answer is to just codify that mindset into law and make other people who might disagree with you pay for it by force.

Personally, I just shrug my shoulders and realize that once we go down this road there is very little chance of coming back, so basically the idea of people be responsible for their own actions has gone the way of the dodo… The Enlightenment came and went with nary a notice by the Totalitarianment that has taken its place.

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 1, 2013 12:14 PM
Comment #373591

BTW, phx8, I have a question…

What is going to be the answer for all of the doctors that are now going to reject using insurance at all and just charge a straight fee for their services? That number is growing exponentially (and they are doing it a BUNCH cheaper). It will certainly throw a monkey wrench in the ACA plans and the ultimate goal of progressives, I’m curious what the plan there is…

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 1, 2013 12:17 PM
Comment #373592
There’s actually a fairly large body of work saying preventive care doesn’t save money.

The CBO says it: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/congressional-budget-expert-says-preventive-care-will-raise-not-cut-costs.html So does the New England Journal of Medicine: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/7/661

More interestingly, a new study of consumer-driven health care, in which people have high deductible insurance, an HSA, and pay for a lot of routine care out of their own dollars, found that people in these sorts of plans are, contra conventional wisdom, more likely to seek preventive care than those on standard insurance plans: http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2009/08/consumer-drive-health-care-plans.html

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 1, 2013 12:22 PM
Comment #373593

Oh, and before you think you got away with the ‘Medicare is more efficient’ BS, remember:

Medicare has higher administrative costs than private firms. They look smaller only because the average Medicare patient uses more services than the average private insurance patient.

And don’t forget, many Medicare patients have to fund supplemental health insurance to cover all of those areas that Medicare doesn’t, or doesn’t very well…

Nevermind of course that doctors are rejecting Medicare because of how they are treated, just as they are now starting to abandon insurance entirely because of the same hamfisted, political nonsense.

Posted by: Rhinehold at November 1, 2013 3:03 PM
Comment #373595

Rhinehold,
It is true, doctors can charge less for procedures than if the patient goes through an insurer. For example, a hip replacement for my wife would be only about $18 - $23k if I paid out of pocket, but $29 - 32k if I went through an insurer. Depending on the insurance policy, the patient would then cover the deductible and more.

Paying the doctor directly becomes impossible for most people when devastating illnesses hit.

That is the point of insurance, or Medicare, for that matter- spreading the risk. Paying monthly for blanket coverage makes more sense than lump sum payments at the time of illness, especially if the lump sum threatens to be ruinously expensive.

What I am saying is obvious.

We tried health care in the private sector, and it failed. Costs skyrocketed and the industry engaged in abusive practices. The ACA represents an attempt at reform. It always was the conservative solution, but conservatives are opposed to it mainly because they oppose and hate Obama to the point of being irrational.

Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 4:17 PM
Comment #373596

phx8, evidently you are taking advice from your mentor, Obama. I never said anything about pre-existing conditions and don’t remember saying anything about the cost. I do remember saying how could you sign up, when the site says NO ONE IS ENROLLING. Although, I would wonder how any price given could be accurate, since everything else Obama has said has been a lie.

Be sure and let us know how much this god send policy will be. Also, let us know if you are getting insurance on the taxpayer subsidy. W breathlessly wait to hear of your great savings.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 4:51 PM
Comment #373597
The ACA represents an attempt at reform. It always was the conservative solution, but conservatives are opposed to it mainly because they oppose and hate Obama to the point of being irrational.

While it is a fact, I have no use for Obama; your conclusion is based on faulty facts. First, ACA is not about providing HC to everyone…it’s about the redistribution of wealth on a GRAND scale. Secondly, based upon the fact that Obamacare is not HC reform, conservatives have never supported it. Conservatives have supported HC reform, i.e. insurance across state lines and tort reform to begin with; something that obamacare does not even touch. Thirdly, whether conservatives oppose or hate Obama to the point of being irrational has nothing to do with their beliefs about obamacare.

phx8, you make this silly statement:

The prices of the premiums are reduced in turn by having insurance providers compete in state exchanges, as well as through limitations on the amount of ‘administrative expenses’ insurance companies can charge.

Insurance companies were competing with each other within state borders before obamacare. ACA was not needed to create inter-state exchanges. You claim there are limited “administrative expenses” under obamacare; but there are increased taxes under obamacare:

Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.

Arranged by their respective effective dates, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, where to find them in the bill, and how much your taxes are scheduled to go up as of today:

Taxes that took effect in 2010:

1. Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new “community health assessment needs,” “financial assistance,” and “billing and collection” rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971

2. Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” (Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113

3. “Black liquor” tax hike (Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105

4. Tax on Innovator Drug Companies ($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980

5. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike ($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004

6. Tax on Indoor Tanning Services ($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399

Taxes that took effect in 2011:

7. Medicine Cabinet Tax ($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959

8. HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike ($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959

Tax that took effect in 2012:

9. Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Min$/Jan 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957

Taxes that take effect in 2013:

10. Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): Creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income: Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.

11. Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax ($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:

Bill: PPACA, Reconciliation Act; Page: 2000-2003; 87-93

12. Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers ($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for

13. High Medical Bills Tax ($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995

14. Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax” ($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389

15. Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D ($4.5 bil/Jan 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994

16. $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives ($0.6 bil/Jan 2013). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000

Taxes that take effect in 2014:

17. Individual Mandate Excise Tax (Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following:

Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS). Bill: PPACA; Page: 317-337

18. Employer Mandate Tax (Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346

Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years

19. Tax on Health Insurers ($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993

Taxes that take effect in 2018:

20. Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans ($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,941-1,956

http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/files/files/06282012pr_Comprehensive%20List%20of%20Obamacare%20Tax%20Hikes%20Effective%20Date(1).pdf

Tell us phx8, since shit always rolls downhill, and since all taxes end up being paid by the consumer; which is more expensive…administrative costs or 20 new Obama taxes? Think about it for a while…this is a tough one.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 5:16 PM
Comment #373598

You’ve just got to love the way the left publications want to make polls bad for the Democrats look like polls bad for the Republicans. The closing thoughts at the MotherJones article is “I have no idea what to make of this. In fact, it’s so strange that it makes me wonder if there’s something wrong with this poll.”

It’s called denial and the leftist of WB suffer from the same desease.

Since the government shutdown, you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting some media member claiming Republicans are in a lot of trouble heading into next year’s midterm elections.

Breaking with the trend rather surprisingly Wednesday was the perilously liberal Mother Jones with a piece titled “New Poll Shows Democratic Incumbents in Big Trouble.”

The poll was actually from James Carville and Stan Greenberg’s Democracy Corps and was titled “The Revolt Against Washington and the Republican Congress.”

Despite Carville and Greenberg’s conclusions, author Kevin Drum dug deeper into the specifics to find some contrary nuggets:

In Democratic districts, net incumbent approval has plummeted by 11 points, from +8 approval to +3 disapproval. In Republican districts, incumbent approval has gone down only 4 points. You see the same results when they ask a question about warmth of feeling toward incumbents: It’s down 7 points in Republican districts and 9 points in Democratic districts.

This isn’t good news for Democrats. It’s true that attitudes toward the Republican Party have taken a bigger hit than attitudes toward the Democratic Party, but attitudes toward actual incumbents are exactly the opposite. And in elections, that’s what matters.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/01/mother-jones-shocker-new-poll-shows-democratic-incumbents-big-trouble#ixzz2jQsgB4Pz

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 5:48 PM
Comment #373600

Political Hostage-
Look, in those elections ahead, the Democrats can honestly say they opposed all that BS, and that they’re just as frustrated with how the House has dealt with things as anybody else.

What can Republicans say? If they’re Tea Partiers, they’re just going to go right ahead and celebrate that dysfunction, and if not, then dishonestly try to blame the Democrats for their actions, which Democrats WILL hit them on. If they’re not, then they can either sympathize and lose votes that way, or decry it, and lose votes from the Tea Party Segment.

The dynamics are what matter! The Republicans have literally nowhere to go on this matter. Meanwhile, Democrats in Washington are working overtime to make Healthcare.gov work, so in the meantime, you stand a good chance of losing what it was you were going to bash us over. If the worst you can say is that some people are going to be forced to pay a bit more for more comprehensive coverage… well then. What a wonderful choice of complaint. Seeing as how those people would likely rack up bad debts if they got hit with something really bad, if the cheap-ass insurance actually came through for them (which there’s no guarantee of, pre-ACA) then it’s not necessarily a loss. Plus, many of the people who were depending on the cheaper stuff were likely doing so because they were low income, and with Medicaid eligibility and subsidy eligibility included in all that, there’s a good chance they’ll get covered despite the cancellation of the old policy (which in many cases was going to get cancelled anyways.)

I’d also like to congratulate the Republicans on getting the complete coverage of contraception struck down, at least as long as it lasts, because THAT is going to increase the healthcare costs of millions of Americans, who won’t exactly be happy about it. But then, ya’ll have made yourself the charming party lately, haven’t you?

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at November 1, 2013 6:00 PM
Comment #373601

PH, Rhinehold,
It is not even close. Administrative costs run far more than the items you enumerated, many of which are either not taxes, or only apply if organizations fail to take certain actions.

Private health insurers normally charge between 19% and 24% in administrative costs for the total spending on health care, which explains why the US pays so much more than other countries, whether measured per capita or as a percentage of GDP. Medicare spends about 6%.

You might be curious to know that Medicare charges about 1/3 of the administrative costs of a typical insurer; in other words, private health insurers serve no vital purpose. They serve as an intermediary between the patient requesting services, and the provider of that service.

The ACA represented a conservative version of health care reform, a way for private health insurers to continue to exist. As an intermediary, they could, in theory, be more efficient than the government, but only if DIRECT competition spurs them to be so, and tight regulation controls their out-of-control practices.

So we will see. I think the ACA will eventually work out pretty well. But I do not doubt for a second that single-payer, or Medicare-for-all, would be the most efficient, practical, and effective solution.

Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 6:02 PM
Comment #373604
Political Hostage- Look, in those elections ahead, the Democrats can honestly say they opposed all that BS, and that they’re just as frustrated with how the House has dealt with things as anybody else.

No Stephen, they can’t say they opposed anything. But what they can say is that they voted for Obamacare to the man.

Meanwhile, Democrats in Washington are working overtime to make Healthcare.gov work

Once again Daugherty…NO…they are covering their asses by calling for obamacare signup delay and penalty delay.

“Charming Party”, well I guess that depends if your the party of socialism, destruction of the nation and the economy, and haters of the Constitution. Thanks, but I’ll stick with the charming party.

Regarding administrative costs/taxes…bullshit Daugherty, go peddle you liberal rhetoric and Obama talking points in the blue column.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 6:43 PM
Comment #373605

By the way, we already redistribute wealth when it comes t health care. If we come across a person who is desperately sick, or in a life-threatening situation, we provide assistance and first aid without expectation of compensation. We call for emergency help, at the very least. The help is provided, and aid is given in an emergency room, regardless of whether the person can afford it or not. About 60% of all emergency room patients do not pay their bills. Nevertheless, we provide that assistance, no questions asked, because that is the kind of society we all want.

So when it comes to health care, we already agree to redistribute the wealth.

Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 6:58 PM
Comment #373606

Here we have another intelligent point made by Stephen Daugherty:

Meanwhile, Democrats in Washington are working overtime to make Healthcare.gov work, so in the meantime, you stand a good chance of losing what it was you were going to bash us over.

Except for the point that this is what the Democrats REALLY did:

CNN reports that in September of 2010, in an attempt to let people keep their insurance plans, Senate Republicans tried to block the grandfather rule that is currently resulting in millions of Americans having their insurance policies cancelled. Democrats, including many who are facing re-election next year, unanimously voted to support the rule. The result, as we have seen, is two million already losing the insurance plan Obama repeatedly promised they could keep. In its report, CNN points out that the whole point of the GOP efforts was to protect millions from losing their insurance. So what we have here is yet more proof that the GOP has been warning for years about this avoidable catastrophe, while the media and Democrats covered their ears and screamed happy talk…

The bad news for Democrats is that every single Senate Democrat facing a tough 2014 reelection — Mary Landrieu, Jeanne Shaheen, Mark Pryor, Kay Hagan and Mark Begich — is now on record voting for a rule that will not only result in up to 20 million losing insurance they were happy with, but doing so after being warned that this would happen.

So Daugherty, when the shit hits the fan next year…and it will; who do you really think the voters are going to believe? Will it be Democrats who say they were doing their best to fix things for the American people…or do you think it will be the conservatives who will run add after add showing what the Democrats really did?

Daugherty, you live in an absolute left wing dream world. We are at the end of 2013, Obamacare has been operating (or not operating) for a month, it is promised to be up and running in another 29 days; but it doesn’t matter because it is a failed program. The American people are going to be furious at what the Democrats have done, policies cancelled, increased taxes and penalties, higher costs for HC, and higher deductibles. Add to that the fact that illegals (illegally in this country) will be getting subsidized obamacare at everyone’s expense. Daugherty, you can spin this all you want; but your side took an advantage given you by the claims that Republicans shut down the government and you pissed them all away. You have no advantage now; what you have are Democrats who are looking at losing their Senate and Hose seats. Your side blew it. All Obama had to do was come out in favor of delaying obamacare for 1 year. But no…in his arrogance and the elitist childish attitude, he not only destroyed his last 3 years, but he has destroyed the Democrats running in 2014. Good luck in continuing to defend him; you are a lone democrat doing it.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 7:15 PM
Comment #373607
By the way, we already redistribute wealth when it comes t health care. If we come across a person who is desperately sick, or in a life-threatening situation, we provide assistance and first aid without expectation of compensation. We call for emergency help, at the very least. The help is provided, and aid is given in an emergency room, regardless of whether the person can afford it or not. About 60% of all emergency room patients do not pay their bills. Nevertheless, we provide that assistance, no questions asked, because that is the kind of society we all want.

So when it comes to health care, we already agree to redistribute the wealth.
Posted by: phx8 at November 1, 2013 6:58 PM


Good point phx8, so are you saying Obama lied when he said there were 30 million without HC? And since what you say is true; perhaps you could explain WHY Obama decided to destroy our Insurance and Healthcare system?

By the way, my daughter worked in the billing department of a large hospital in MO. Taxpayers did not pay those bills, they were written off at the cost of higher healthcare for those who paid. Funny thing how nothing is FREE. Somebody always pays.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 7:24 PM
Comment #373608

“By the way, my daughter worked in the billing department of a large hospital in MO. Taxpayers did not pay those bills, they were written off at the cost of higher healthcare for those who paid. Funny thing how nothing is FREE. Somebody always pays.”

Well, gee, PH, I think that was phx8’s point. You might also want to include County property tax payers in most metropolitan areas and the federal government’s payment to hospitals for un-reimbursed costs.

The point is simple. We already redistribute wealth to care for the uninsured. Better to do it in a more reasonable and organized fashion and in a manner in which everyone (even those with subsidies) contributes to their health insurance.

Posted by: Rich at November 1, 2013 7:35 PM
Comment #373609

Okay DA, I will ask you; why did Obama push to destroy America’s HC system and insurance companies if the 30 million without Ins (according the liar in chief), if they were already covered? Seems to me the 30 million without HC was another lie.

A little video for Daugherty, I don’t guess the liberal media got the memo to cover Obama’s ass:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57610328/obamacare-enrollments-got-off-to-very-slow-start-documents-show/

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 7:44 PM
Comment #373610

“Taxpayers did not pay those bills..”

PH,

You seem to be under the impression that the taxpayer doesn’t pick up a substantial portion of un-reimbursed hospital bills. That is simply not true. Under the Medicare and Medicaid Disproportionate Hospital share programs, the federal government spends annually about 22 Billion dollars to reimburse hospitals for indigent and un-reimbursed care. That is in addition to County property taxes used to support major public hospitals in virtually all metropolitan regions in the US.

Obamacare has a number of provisions directed at this issue with the goal to cut the Disproportionate Share payments by 17 Billion dollars.

Posted by: Rich at November 1, 2013 7:54 PM
Comment #373611

And Obama continues his anti-American/ anti-Veteran attacks. As HC policies are being cancelled and prices and deductibles continue to rise as the result of obamacare; more and more veterans will turn to the VA for HC…wrong move. Obama is using all means to disarm the American veterans:

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/veterans-are-fighting-back-a-follow-up-to-disarming-americas-heroes-by-constitutional-attorney-michael-Connelly

Why does Obama fear military veterans owning guns?????

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 7:55 PM
Comment #373612

Give it up Rich, I am perfectly aware of how things work. I know how you white boy liberals love to talk condescending to a black man and explain to him how things work. Go back to your defending of obamacare, I’m sure someone will listen to you.

Posted by: Political Hostage at November 1, 2013 7:59 PM
Comment #373614

“Nevermind of course that doctors are rejecting Medicare because of how they are treated,”

Rhinehold,

How they are treated? Each year Congress passes a “Doc Fix” bill that increases Medicare physician reimbursement above the level established by law in 1997 (Sustainable Growth Rate (SGR). That law was intended to limit increases in physician Medicare rates to a rate tethered to growth in overall GDP. It was an effort to limit health care inflation to general inflation.

Posted by: Rich at November 1, 2013 8:09 PM
Comment #373615

“Give it up Rich, I am perfectly aware of how things work.”

Apparently not, PH.

Posted by: Rich at November 1, 2013 8:11 PM
Comment #373617

For close distance photography, people have macro lens and extension tube to choose. Between these two items, people always confused about how to choose and which they should choose to receive good performance of the image. Neopine macro lens can greatly solve this question for photographers.

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Oakley’s DNA to identify problems, create inventions, and wrap those inventions in art. And simply to make things better than anyone thought possible. Decades of Oakley innovation have been awarded more than 540 patents that elevate physics to the level of art. Technologies transcend sports to enhance the lives of consumers, and more than 110 countries now enjoy a full array of market-leading products including premium sunglasses, goggles, prescription eyewear, apparel, footwear and accessories. These products repre
The latest edition of the Oil Rig comes with redesigned stem architecture that puts the icon of innovation in the crosshairs of dimensional grooves. Art meets attitude in a style that carries a single continuous lens across contours of lightweight O Matter frame material. Oakley uniquely curves the frame so even medium-size faces get a precise fit that doesn’t stick out at the sides. The sculpturally integrated hinges are engineered with dual cam action, and the linear ear stems provide a cogucci outlet onlinemfortably secure grip. High Definition Optics (HDO®) takes advantage of Polaric Ellipsoid lens geometry to maintain clarity while curving the lenses for optimal side protection and extended peripheral view. The Plutonite lens material filters out every ray of UV, and both impact protection and optical precision meet ANSI Z87.1 standards.

Rugged and ready for battle are these Oil Rig sunglasses by Oakley. The unique curve on the white frame allows medium-size faces to get a precise fit that doesn’t stick out at the sides. The sculpturally integrated hinges are engineeregucci online outletd with dual-cam action and the linear ear stems provide a comfortably secure grip.

See all Product Descriptionicro Bag. I always prefer my Sunglasses in Matte Black Finish. This is my second Oakley sunglass. The other one I have is the Oakley Probation. The Oil Rig is certainly suitable for Medium to large faces, mine being the latter. In addition to this I also purchased separately an Oakley Carbon Vault Case (Large) which in one word is Awesome. Only problem I have with the Oil Rig is that sometimes while folding in the handles they make a squeaking noise of plastic rubbing on plastic. Other than that I like the Oil Rig a lot.
These sunglasses are spectacular. You can’t beat this price. These retailed for 190 on Oakley and this design is currently discontinued so get these while you still can. The Shadow Camo design cannot be beat. These aGucci Factory Outletre rather large glasses and might look funny on a smaller person. I’d consider myself to have an average sized face and they look great I like mine a little larger but Aviators look ridiculous on me so this size is about perfect. I will say that the first pair that I got had some what I think were factory defects on the lenses but Amazon and their ever awesome customer service shipped out another pair and they were flawless. I could not be happier with these sunglasses. I did a bit a show rooming at Scheel’s to find the pair of Oakley’s I wanted so if you worried about the fit just go there and make some hapless employee get all the glasses out of the case that you want to try on and then just make a mental note of ttrue religion storehe style youtrue religion factory liked the most. The name of the style is u

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First I got the small 52mm aviators, which ended up being WAY too small for me. I learned the hard way that the mm sizes is not specifically the distance across your face, it’s the size of each lens. I have the 52mm in the new wayfarers which fit perfectly, so don’t let that lead you to a size in aviators, because the size doesn’t translate. So then I got the 55mm in the aviators and they were a tad snug on the side of my face. Then I ordered the 58mm. These seem to be the best choice for me and I realllCheap Oakley Sunglassesly love them. They’re lightweight and comfortable.

In the end, I learned the mm size will have a little to do with the distance across the face, being the lens get bigger, but it just wasn’t as cut a brand to look beyond the conventional ideas of industry standards. It’s in Oakley’s DNA to identify problems, create inventions, and wrap those inventions in art. And simply to make things better than anyone thought possible. Decades of Oakley innovation have been awarded more than 540 patents that elevate physics to the level of art. Technologies transcend sports to enhance the lives of consumers, and more than 110 countries now enjoy a full array of maMonster Beats by Drerket-leading products including premium sunglasses, goggles, prescription eyewear, apparel, footwear and accessories. These products represent Oakley’s commitment to excellence - a passion that redefines what is possible for those who defy their own limits.

The Oakley Oil Rig Polarized Sunglasses are more than just a sleek and cool looking pair of sunglasses, they make a statement. The cool stem architecture is unique and innovative. Beyond the attitude of the frames, you should know that these sunglasses are constructed with O Matter which is stress-resistant, impact resistant and lightweight ensuring plentOakley Sunglasses Outlety of durability. The single continuous lenses is made of Plutonite which will filter out the harmful UV rays of the sun. Its Pollaric Ellipsoid Lens Geometry provides an optimized peripheral view and side coverage so that you are literally covered on all angles. If you want the best clarity with minimal glare then you’ll want to wear the truly rough-and-tough style of the Oakley Oil Rig Polarized Sunglasses every time you walk out the door. Features: XYZ Optics. Bearing GCheap Beats by Drerade: High Performance, Best Use: Streetwear/Driving, Lens Material: Plutonite, Frame Material: O Matter, Polarized: Yes, Photochromatic: No, Interchangable Lens: No, Additional Lenses: No, Face Size:
With interchangeable metal icons that snap into place, Dispatch II lets you put a new face on style. The O Matter frame features an original Oakley sculpture with cutaways and inlays for a look you can call your own. This is a modern twist on classic cool.

The neighbors said you were crazy, but as you slip the Oakley Dispatch II Sunglasses over your eyes and shift your super-charged lawn mower into overdrive, you soak in their wide-eOakley Sunglasses Clearanceyed stares of amazement. Your stylish shades may block out 100% of the UV rays and reduce glare off the road, but you can clearly see the envy as you peel out in front of Carl’s garage.
with gray color makes me charming and bought it because of it & aviator design . Come on dudes , if you want to be young & fresh , ware it . If you are already stylish guy , this is one of the nice sunglasses I recommend . I will like it more if it were with polarized lens . All of Oakley sunglasses are designed as comfortable fit one even you have small or big head.

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