Obama expected 500,000 to sign up for Obamacare this month

Reference. Let’s see if they make it.

Or maybe more important, let's see how many young people signed up. If they get 500,000 sick old guys, the system will surely collapse.

Posted by Christine & John at October 16, 2013 5:59 PM
Comments
Comment #372858

Since coverage doesn’t begin until 2014, and enrollment is open till March, I wouldn’t expect many to act differently than me as a shopper: Take my time, get all the information, follow any new developments, and then sign up before the deadline.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 16, 2013 10:19 PM
Comment #372860

David

I am just telling you what Obama expected. I figure the Obama folks will rewrite history. That is what they are good at.

Posted by: CJ at October 16, 2013 10:26 PM
Comment #372867

It is reported that Alaska, thouogh not a large state by population, has only 2 people that have successfully enrolled. What a success!!!!
This is an indication that those lies, distortions, and just plain misinformation that “glitches” and “high volume” is the reason people could not get onto the web site.
This would indicate that they are using computers with only 1k of memory and have a processor speed of 50Mhz.
This is another reason that whatever one thinks about the ACA, that a delay should have been in order in the implementation of such a collossal piece of trash.
I made an inquiry and found my insurance would have gone up 147% at minimum.
The name of this program should have been call the Unaffordable Government Grab

Posted by: tom humes at October 17, 2013 12:36 PM
Comment #372870

This is going to be a shock to people when they find out how much it will cost them. I have 2 nieces and 1 nephew who are in their mid 20’s; they don’t have HC Ins. and they don’t want it. They have other more important things they want to spend their money on and they will not sign up for the Ins. They may have to pay a penalty, but they will pay it rather than pay the high cost of Ins. I consider my nieces and nephew as typical of young people. Obama and the Ins companies were counting on these young people to pay for the program and without their compliance, the program is doomed.

I’m curios about the smarter younger people on WB and if they will sign up for the Ins. Perhaps Warren Porter could tell us what he will do. Stephen Daugherty will sign up, no questions asked, because that is what his messiah Obama wants him to do.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 17, 2013 2:03 PM
Comment #372871

CJ said: “I figure the Obama folks will rewrite history. That is what they are good at.”

Every politician rewrites (Interprets) history to their own ends, CJ. Only the blindly partisan or naive fail to recognize that. It is called sophistry = the art form of the politician. It is the parts of history they subscribe to without rewrite and take lessons from, that distinguishes some politicians from others, and Democrats from Republicans.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 17, 2013 2:52 PM
Comment #372872

I heard that Obamacare causes anyone who even thinks of it to have massive health problems. But then I also heard that it cures fits, farts and freckles. This might seem outlandish but it is no different than what I read from the right side of WB and a lot of other places, lots of postulating but no substance. Sure there are problems with the rollout, that happens when you attempt the greatest change to healthcare delivery that has ever been attempted. There will be good stories and some bad but I don’t think the best part of the PPACA will be witnessed by any of us with the possible exception of Warren and Stephen, they seem smart enough to do the right things to live long and prosper. I am very happy that there may be a whole different type of healthcare delivery that comes from this wonderful act that my grandchildren can take advantage of. I plan on trying to support the implementation anyway possible, I just haven’t been able to find out what that could be. Perhaps some of my friends on the right have some suggestions? Now try to be nice, remember this is a public place.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 2:54 PM
Comment #372874
Sure there are problems with the rollout, that happens when you attempt the greatest change to healthcare delivery that has ever been attempted…I plan on trying to support the implementation anyway possible, I just haven’t been able to find out what that could be.

Well speak4yourself, I would suggest you check with Reid or Pelosi, but it appears they don’t yet know what’s in the law either.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 17, 2013 3:31 PM
Comment #372875
I am very happy that there may be a whole different type of healthcare delivery that comes from this wonderful act that my grandchildren can take advantage of.

And those differences are what, exactly?

I’ve seen two comments, one saying this is the ‘greatest change to healthcare’ and the other saying it is a ‘whole new wonderful healthcare delivery system’. Here I thought it was just a minor thing that won’t affect the majority of people and how they get their healthcare? At least that is what was stated by the president…

IMO, any time you inject politics into healthcare you are making a mistake, it should be something left to you and your doctor. But, obviously my opinion counts for little.

Just as SS was seen as a great deal by many because it lets them no longer think about taking care of themselves, this is another step in that direction. Soon we will all be free to not think anymore, isn’t freedom great!

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 3:41 PM
Comment #372876

Hostage
Thanks for advice but I am certain they are to busy to take my call or correspondence. I believe they know what’s in the law but what they don’t know is how effective the law will be and how much the law will need to be changed, none of us do. I have every bit of confidence in their abilities though and will contribute money to each of their re-election campaigns thanks to your suggestion.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 3:44 PM
Comment #372877

Rhinehold
Tell that to the lady who tries to get an abortion in one of your red states that are enacting laws to get between them and their physicians. No one ever said it was a minor thing, least of all myself. IMO your IMO doesn’t mean much because you are a rabid right wing zealot who hides behind an independent monicker. Why not just give it 20 or 30 years and see where it is then? Oh I know, because the whole world will come crashing down any moment now because of the PPACA. I am clutching my pearls, please fetch me my vapors.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 3:50 PM
Comment #372879

PH wrote; “Obama and the Ins companies were counting on these young people to pay for the program and without their compliance, the program is doomed.”

No government entitlement program is ever doomed with liberals in charge. They will simply increase the penalty and force the result they wish.

While there remains a considerable number of R’s willing to conspire with the D’s, we will continue on our march toward socialism.

Speak writes; ” I am very happy that there may be a whole different type of healthcare delivery that comes from this wonderful act that my grandchildren can take advantage of.”

Yes, that different form of healthcare delivery may well be witchcraft or leech-bleeding. I fully expect the ACA to follow the same path to insolvency as all the other giant entitlement programs.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 17, 2013 3:59 PM
Comment #372880
I believe they know what’s in the law but what they don’t know is how effective the law will be and how much the law will need to be changed, none of us do. I have every bit of confidence in their abilities though and will contribute money to each of their re-election campaigns thanks to your suggestion.

Your comment disputes Pelosi’s comment that, “We will know what’s in the bill after it’s passed”. And since there is new information coming out each day, I doubt that anyone really knows what’s in the law.

Regarding changing the law; that comment disputes what Obama plans to do, and that is change nothing, unless it is illegally changing the law by presidential directive.

Regarding contributing money; by all means contribute to the downfall of the country. Although liberals have a very bad history of contributing their own money to anything.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 17, 2013 4:07 PM
Comment #372883
Tell that to the lady who tries to get an abortion in one of your red states that are enacting laws to get between them and their physicians.

You should really know who you are talking to before you make such an ass of yourself… It’s the pitfalls that people like yourself make who only argue in the ‘we are good, they are bad’ mindset. It’s an unthinking faith-based political mindset that is ruining the country, unfortunately. But you have at least shown me that you are unworthy of future ‘debate’.

For any future reference, in case you consider every trying to challenge me again, I am not a Republican, or ‘red’ as you suggest’, and I am decidedly pro-choice, more so than any Democrat has ever considered themselves. I believe in pro-choice for everything, including how you pick your healthcare…

IMO your IMO doesn’t mean much because you are a rabid right wing zealot who hides behind an independent monicker. Why not just give it 20 or 30 years and see where it is then?

‘rabid right wing zealot’? LOL

As for ‘giving it 20 or 30 years’, should we do the same with a law that states every citizen must own a gun? It’s basically the same thing and the same power that you have recklessly given to our government, telling us that we have to purchase something just for the benefit of being born American.

We gave the Department of Education 40 years now, it has decidedly failed, test scores have declined each and every year since it was put into place. But talk about repealing it? The 30 year old war on drugs has left us in a constant state of prohibition style gang warfare across our cities, but talk about repealing it?

Speaking out against something that is decidedly bad for the country is the right and proper thing for all Americans to do. The problem is that not enough people are capable of seeing what those things are and just parrot what their political masters have dictated to them to think. You know, the unthinking masses…

It reminds me of a Steve Martin joke… Remember when the earth blew up and we all came to this planet? Oh come, don’t you remember we got on the giant space-arks and flew here to and decided not to tell the stupid people because… um… nevermind!

And no, the world will not come ‘crashing down’ because of this bad law. The ideals of this country will be dead, but it was barely on life support anyway. Instead we are pretty much the country we revolted to get away from. :/ Shame really…

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 4:33 PM
Comment #372884

Royal
Gloom and doom, gloom and doom. Maybe you need the vapors? What you fully expect and what actually happens seem to be in disagreement. Romney will win in a landslide, Obama is a weak president that will fold, the greatest country in the world will be brought down by trying to provide healthcare to as many people as possible. None of that has come true so far so I hope you don’t mind if I file your expectations where they deserve to be.

Hostage
Oh my goodness you found something a politician said that seems to contradict what they believe. Maybe you should contact Ms. Pelosi and ask her to clarify her statement made so long ago. She may even tell you that she was possibly misquoted or at least she mistakenly tried to get something across to people who just don’t want to know what she meant?

Illegally changing? Oh my, you better get your impeachment papers ready for high crimes and misdemeanors. Try not to get to excited though you might have a hard time proving that. The downfall of any part of this country will have nothing to do with my contributions, it is much greater than that. Keep your opinions about liberals and their money to yourself and I will try to do the same about what you and your money decisions do.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 4:36 PM
Comment #372885

BTW, I recently heard someone discuss a view I have held for decades in a way that took me back and really put it into a succinct manner of speaking that I was greatly impressed by.

A national debt is just taxation without representation. We are taking future Americans (both those not born and those not naturalized) for what we want today. It is an anethema to everything this country was founded upon, but it has become so ingrained into our way of life that we are loathe to stop doing it. Why? It will be hard.

Very few in the ‘what about me’ baby boomer generation will ever want to do anything hard when they can pass off the costs to someone else.

It’s not only what we have done with the debt, but also what we have done with SS, wars, healthcare, taking care of the poor, etc.

If that makes you feel good, you are not a person I really want to interact with.

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 4:38 PM
Comment #372886
Keep your opinions about liberals and their money to yourself and I will try to do the same about what you and your money decisions do.

Your ‘best’ meaning not trying at all, right? I doubt you have met someone who isn’t a Democrat that you can say you ‘like’ have you? Forget the Christian/Jews/Islamist religious wars, the wars that you and your ilk have been fermenting are more insidious IMO.

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 4:41 PM
Comment #372887

Rhinehold
Yes I know I have been reading you here for years and my comment doesn’t make an ass out of me except in you vaunted opinion. When I first started to read your posts I thought maybe here is a person that could truly have an independent thought process however the coincidence of your denigrating any democratic decision and never really pushing to much back on any conservative/republican/tea party opinions really helped me understand that you are one of those people who wants to act aloof and not supporting any democratic opinion for very sacrosanct reasons, phttt. Challenge you? No I just calls em like I sees em.

By the way I am very glad you weren’t around before the second war of independence. You might have said you know we gave it 40 years that’s a long time. Can we please not be our own sovereign country anymore and just be a colony again. Cause this being a country deal is really hard.

No one is telling you to do anything. Either get healthcare insurance or pay the tax that will help support the care you are given in case you need it.

Your hiatus doesn’t seem to have changed your opinion. I know you are libertarianish, whoopee. Sorry to hear about your wife, we all hope for the best.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 4:47 PM
Comment #372889

Rhinehold
Again your IMO doesn’t mean much to me. Not sorry. Leave my “what I try to do” to me and I will do the same for you. I have lots of Republican friends and co-workers, they find my opinions very much in disagreement with what they hold but I try to temper that with the understanding that I may not convey that to the best of my abilities, the same can be said here.

I’ll tell you what, here’s an acid test for you. Tell me something you admire about President Obama. I thought George W Bush did outstanding work helping the most needy during the AIDS epidemic, to the point that he upset a lot of his political friends. I also admire his ability to not throw his hat into the political ring since he has left office and respect him for that. Whatcha got?

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 4:54 PM
Comment #372891
however the coincidence of your denigrating any democratic decision and never really pushing to much back on any conservative/republican/tea party opinions really helped me understand that you are one of those people who wants to act aloof and not supporting any democratic opinion for very sacrosanct reasons, phttt.

Never pushing back on any conservative/republican/tea party opinions… I would point you to my archive for the facts, in which I have written articles such as:

Pro Gay Marriage (while both Republicans and Democrats were against)
Pro-choice (not just abortion)
Against the Patriot Act
Against the Surveillance State
Against staying in Iraq
Against the Glenn Beck/Tea Party
etc.

The fact is there is little to nothing about the Republican Party that I like or approve of. And there are plenty of people here dumping on them, so why bother? However, having been a Democrat in the past (working on the Dukakis campaign) I am understandably much more frustrated with Democrats and how they have abandoned their original Jeffersonian ideals and have become Hamiltonians, just like the Republicans who they fought against for years.

That’s the sad fact you don’t realize, today’s Democrats are so much like Republicans, with much more in agreement with them than in disagreement, that it really doesn’t matter to many of us which one ‘wins’, they are both basically the same. Hell, this president has carried on so many of Bush’s policies, that these last two terms have been dubbed by many as Bush’s 3rd and 4th terms.

You can close your eyes and wish to see what you want to see concerning me, but the facts as seen by unbiased eyes are much more different. Heck the main reason I have been gone for a while is that I was tired of the people commenting at the time telling me I was going to hell for supporting gay marriage after I had just defended them against being treated just as you are trying to treat me here.

One of the biggest problems in modern politics is the demonization of the opponent, the politics of personal destruction, labels, hatred, vitriol, etc. All the things you display here…

Can we please not be our own sovereign country anymore and just be a colony again.

We are… You have succeeded remarkably well. :/ Taxation with representation, limitations of rights, quelling of free speech, spying on the movements of the citizens, allowing a police state to become entrenched… I’m not sure I see where the real difference lies, do you?

And your comment is hilarious, after telling me I should shut up about something I disagree with to then tell me I should be more willing to defend my ideas, don’t you think?

No one is telling you to do anything. Either get healthcare insurance or pay the tax that will help support the care you are given in case you need it.

And no one is telling you you have to buy a gun, just either buy one or pay the tax that will help support you in case you need defending… Seems like a deal, no? Would you be ok with that law being passed? I suspect you would howl as much as I am about this law. Only I would be howling about that law as well, because I’m not a hypocrite.

I’ll tell you what, here’s an acid test for you. Tell me something you admire about President Obama.

I genuinely like his as a person, I am glad that he (finally) came around on gay marriage and ending DADT, He understands technology more than any previous president, He loves his wife and kids and is a good family man, He didn’t cave to his supporters to implement single-payer (though I fear that is going to be the end result), there are several good things IN Obamacare that I approve of and support…

I also very much liked the Obama of 2006, he was very much in line with many of my ideas. Anti-war without congressional approval, anti-debt, anti-surveillance, anti-patriot act, pro-civil liberties etc. It’s unfortunate that he isn’t around running the country these days, I think I would have voted for that guy…

That’s my biggest gripe with this president, he isn’t leading and he isn’t sticking to the ideals that he once voted for and spoke about. He might still hold them, but no one would know it. :/

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 5:37 PM
Comment #372895

Rhinehold
Good for you. You can admit that President Obama does have things you can admire, I respect that. I did not tell you to shut up. This has been your problem on this blog for years. You take any afront to your wildly libertarian stances as some total destruction of all of your beliefs and a hatred of who you are. That is not the case here. I am merely defending the PPACA and you want to keep saying “hey you come here, knock this chip off my shoulder”. Fer crissakes calm down and please try to realize we cannot transport back to whatever century you want to and live our lives there now. We are in the here and now. Surveillance is now part of our lives as it should be for our protection, I know you don’t want it. OK so change that if you can. I will support you when I feel it is necessary but I cannot now. Your ideas about guns are just kinda creepy, you probably feel the same way about how I feel about several things. I understand that and will tell you I cannot do anything for you about that. You see I like this country and have for as many years as I can remember, I’m tired of people telling me what they think is wrong with it and how it is my fault. Gotta go, may not be able to respond quickly.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 17, 2013 5:58 PM
Comment #372897

Speak asks Rhinehold to “Tell me something you admire about President Obama” after a few things he admired about Bush.

Even though the question was not addressed to me, I will say I admire bama’s state dept cutting back on military aid to Egypt.

After bama has been out of office for five years, like Bush, I may think of something else…who knows?

Speak says that telling the truth about the red ink entitlement programs is gloom and doom. Every D and R politician I know of, including bama, believes these programs need to be fixed to survive.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 17, 2013 6:24 PM
Comment #372899

My ‘wildly libertarian’ view is that people should be free to live their lives as they choose unless they are preventing another from doing the same. It was the basic view of this country when it was founded and the major view of one of the major parties of this country up until the 70s…

That they are considered ‘out of touch’ and ‘incapable of being held’ in this day and age is sad to me, personally. I don’t think it is right to put a gun to another person’s head and tell them how to live. It isn’t right for people in one geographic location to tell others in another geographic location how to live and govern.

Yet that is where we are, that is what you see as normal because you’ve accepted it as the ‘only way’. It isn’t. This country can function very well, and most likely better, if we got back to that basic idea and let people be the rulers of their own lives…

I don’t want to ‘travel back’ to any century, I just want to live by and achieve the ideals that made this country great, not the mess of nonsense we have now that is holding us back, holding us down. We were once the greatest nation in the world, not just because we were a beacon of freedom, but because that freedom allowed us to rise quicker and faster than anyone else who was trying to manage their people, to hold them back. Now we are not the greatest nation in many ways (education, production, economic, etc). We are no longer the freest nation either, Canada has become a more free country to live in than the US. While we were instituting regulation after regulation (that do little but line the pockets of those that seek control of that power), they were deregulating and giving their people more and more freedom. They now have a more stable and robust economy than we do, a freer people than we do and we are turning a blind eye to the facts that while I do love the ideas that this country says it stands for, it just doesn’t stand for them any more in deed…

We now have our children paying to keep our medical costs down, our retirement costs down, allow us to get involved in every military action across the globe, etc. No wonder that they can’t spur the economy on, that they can’t invent and move this country forward, they are too busy taking care of their children’s needs and their parent’s needs. How ridiculous is that?

Remember, in this interaction, you were the one who attacked first, so telling me that I am the instigator here doesn’t jive with the facts.

I can accept that for many decades, the government had to do some more than it should have to get some things going. But in this day and age, we are poised to make some real progress and be something, but we are living in the past. In the 80s, the tide turned and business became less of a place to suck money out of everyone and became more of a place where civil responsibility to help others. As the information age dawned, we became more easily aware of those in need and turned to help them, on our own, without government. Hell, I can’t go to Taco Bell anymore to buy a meal without being asked to give money to starving children. So at a time when we are more and more willing and able to take care of helping those in need, we suck more and more money out of those people’s hands and give it to the government.

A big idol of mine, Harry Chapin, did it the right way. He gave away the door take from half of his concerts every year (he did over 200) to charity. He started World Hunger Year because of what he believed in. He influenced a generation of musicians that led directly to “Do They Know It’s Christmas” which led directly to “We Are The World” and Hands Across America (both of which were organized by his manager at the time of his death) which led to a new feeling of helping others that has blossomed today to a resurgence in helping our fellow man because we can and they need it. But they didn’t need government to do that… He was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his tireless work, the first musician to earn that award for 70 years. His tombstone has a line from one of his songs (that I listen to nearly every day):

“Oh if a man tried
To take his time on Earth
And prove before he died
What one man’s life could be worth
I wonder what would happen
to this world”

A man, not the government. What can PEOPLE do. He never put a gun to anyone’s head to help anyone, he did it all through volunteerism, something the Democratic Party *USED* to be about, but when volunteers tried to keep national monuments and parks opened on their own, they were cited for up to 6 months in jail for their efforts…

Yeah, I know I am ‘loony’ for thinking that we can have a society like that now, where people look out for each other without Big Brother telling them they have to, maybe I’m just naive.

Surveillance is a ‘part of our lives’ because we allow it. But that doesn’t mean we have to. It’s repugnant to spy on our own citizens. It’s demeaning and is against everything this country stands for. Just because the majority of people are willing to accept something doesn’t make it ok or right. You know, like how slavery was accepted by a majority of people at one time, or women weren’t allowed to vote, or gays weren’t allowed to marry…

I am reminded of the story of the person who wrote the ‘Tear Down This Wall’ speech for Reagan. The State Department did not want anyone rocking the boat or saying anything inflamitory, the speech was recommended against by Howard Baker and Colin Powell. Robinson had been told that the East German people had ‘gotten used to the wall’ and it was just a way of life for them. At a dinner that evening with some East Germans, he asked that question and was met with a much different response than he was told. While they weren’t out in the streets protesting it, no they hadn’t ‘gotten used to it’. So it was left in and has become one of the defining moments of the fall of a crushing surveillance state, one much like we are turning into.

So, one day in the future the children of the future are going to look back on this time and say either “That’s when we threw off the yokes of individual freedom and now no longer have worry ourselves with deciding what kind of lives we want to live or how we are going to pay our bills, someone else does that for us now” or “That was a moment in our history when, like slavery, we were ignoring the individual rights of the citizens and is a lesson for us to learn from and never repeat”…

I know which one I am rooting for.

Posted by: Rhinehold at October 17, 2013 6:47 PM
Comment #372901
IMO your IMO doesn’t mean much because you are a rabid right wing zealot who hides behind an independent monicker.

Evidently speak4yourself did not get Stephen Daugherty’s message the we are comply with the rules of get booted off WB. Did speak4yourself just call Rhinehold a “rabid right wing zealot”?

Rhinehold Yes I know I have been reading you here for years and my comment doesn’t make an ass out of me except in you vaunted opinion.

I find it interesting that speak4yourself has stated on several occasions that he has been monitoring WB for many years and yet has just recently begin posting. I have also noticed that as time goes by, his comments have become more vitriol in content. IMO speak4yourself is posting under a different name, but sounds like a few liberals who have posted on WB in the past.

Regarding what can I say positive about Obama; he’s a very good community organizer and an excellent politician. He’s racist who hates his own kind, and he’s a “Christian” who loves Islam. Other than that, I have nothing else to say, at least not publically.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 17, 2013 7:24 PM
Comment #372905

Nationwide, 363,000 have enrolled in Obamacare so far. C&J seems to think this means history has been re-written. Perhaps the Democrats have even achieved the ability to re-write the future. Amazing jedi powers.

Posted by: phx8 at October 17, 2013 9:11 PM
Comment #372908

I don’t know where you got your info phx8, but I just googled to find out the numbers and they tell a whole different story. Out of 3.72 million who tried to enroll only 1 million were registered and 36,000 enrolled.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 17, 2013 9:25 PM
Comment #372913

KAP,
There have been 15 million separate visitors on the government site alone.

Posted by: phx8 at October 17, 2013 10:45 PM
Comment #372915

phx8, I have googled and re googled and the high number enrolled is 51,000. Like I said I don’t know where your getting your info from. 15 million visitors may have visited the site but only like I said the high number of enrolled is only 51,000. I visited the site but couldn’t get through. So lets quit with the BS the site is a nightmare with problems.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 17, 2013 11:18 PM
Comment #372917

Maybe you are referring to the national site alone, and not including the other states, which have their own sites? KY, CA, and CO are doing very well. Maryland is having trouble with its site.

I am in Oregon. The site has not opened yet for online enrollments, but enrollments are being taken by phone and in person. Since there is no incentive to buck the crowd, I will wait. Much as I would like to do it sooner, I have until the end of the year.

Posted by: phx8 at October 17, 2013 11:43 PM
Comment #372919

phx8, If the enrollments are as good as you say I suppose the MSM and Obama and his HHS Sec would be crowing about it but they are strangely silent.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 17, 2013 11:53 PM
Comment #372923

I haven’t had anything to do with the federal site, but it sounds like very poor job by the private contractor(s). I don’t think anyone is happy with the performance of the federal site up to this point. But like I said, if anyone doesn’t like the federal site, they should remember their state had the option of operating their own site for competitive health insurance, an exchange fully funded by the feds, including advertising and navigators to help people sign up. Of course, the states that have not established exchanges are primarily red states. They made this choice as a way of undermining health care reform. Are they having trouble? Cry me a river. Vote out Republicans and bring in some Democrats who can actually govern. What a concept.

Since Oregon only has a population of 3 million, and (if it holds true to the national average) only about 15% might sign up for insurance on the exchange, that comes out to 450,000 total. Should be very doable.

But then, we have solid, competent Democrats in charge. It makes a big difference.

Posted by: phx8 at October 18, 2013 1:29 AM
Comment #372925

Sure sounds like garbage to me. Here we are with 3 years to get the dice rolling. And all we get are “glitches”.
Pelosi says “let us pass it and then see what is in it” and they are already wanting to “fix” the law. It isn’t even in force yet and the nincapoops want to change the law even when Obama has changed the law without legislation to change the law. That is a classic case of corruption. Of course that is hard to prove because the left does not know what is in the law or they are lying; take your pick.

Posted by: tom humes at October 18, 2013 3:43 AM
Comment #372927

C&J, despite a massive propaganda campaign by conservatives the past 3 years, despite the poor start up of the federal website the fact that the projection is within reach at the midpoint of the month seems quite an achievement. What are you complaining about? Certainly you are not trying to divert attention from Cruz and his Tea Party handlers (or as I like to say the tyranny of the minority party) attempted takeover of the federal government using Obamacare as the justification.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 18, 2013 8:16 AM
Comment #372932

Rhinehold
I apologize for attacking you and calling you a rabid right wing zealot however it will take me some time to not think that way as I have learned something different from reading your posts for many years. But hey I could be wrong, I can learn anew but I will temper that with how I discern your statements. Perhaps I can ask for more clarification in the future if I require that.

I would hope you could understand how I might attack you in the first place. In this column alone already Hostage thinks I am conspiring to trick him into thinking I am some one else, sheesh. Royal can’t even refer to President Obama with any respect and has to use some altered name to refer to him. By the way I have never referred to George W Bush as “shrub”, “chimp in charge” and many of the other names unthinking people use on a person that should be honored just by virtue of the office he holds or held. I thought it was disgusting then and now.

As I told Stephen in a comment in the other column, it’s a little bit difficult not to become vitriolic when vitriol is what you are confronted with. That is not an excuse and I will try to show you the respect you think I should and would ask you to do the same.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 11:14 AM
Comment #372942

Speak writes; “Royal can’t even refer to President Obama with any respect and has to use some altered name to refer to him…”

I have no respect for anyone who continually lies to those he rules, who usurps constitutional authority, who willingly placed our country into Trillions more in debt; when as a senator fervently spoke against just that, who is a racist, and who values special interests over the interest of every American. I respect no Tyrant who intentionally divides the people he rules, whose shadow has darkened our land and diminished the aspirations and liberty of our citizens.

When, and if, this president ever acts presidential, I may change my mind.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 18, 2013 4:12 PM
Comment #372943

Royal
And yet myself and millions and millions of other Americans believe that President Obama is the best thing to happen to this country in a very long time.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 4:27 PM
Comment #372944

And millions and millions of Americans believe otherwise. With a 37% approval that means 63% think he’s not doing the job he is supposed to do, Speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 18, 2013 4:34 PM
Comment #372945

KAP,
Only one poll shows Obama with a 37% approval rating. The eight other polls used by RCP all show higher, with an average of over 43%. Even FOX shows 45%, and Rasmussen 48%.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Try again.

Posted by: phx8 at October 18, 2013 4:46 PM
Comment #372946

Royal
And yet myself and millions and millions of other Americans believe that President Obama is the best thing to happen to this country in a very long time.
Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 4:27 PM

Did I not write that he favors “special interest groups” over all Americans? If you’re on the receiving end of tyrannical largess why not be happy about it?

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 18, 2013 4:50 PM
Comment #372948

KAP
Enough with all the exclamation points. I get you don’t like our President, you do not need to yell. I feel very sorry for you that you have to go through this imagined hell but please believe me that you live in a bubble of Faux news and right wing talking points. This President is liked by millions and millions of Americans. I know that there are millions that don’t like him, I get that. I don’t know where you are getting 37% approval rating but in my book I like what he does and I don’t really care if you don’t. You will just have to live with that until you can vote in someone that you do like, that’s not gonna happen for a while. And I know you don’t listen to Faux news you get these ideas all on your own, yeah sure.

Royal
I am not on the receiving end of tyrannical largess. But I still think President Obama is the best thing to happen to this country in a very long time. As I told KAP you can get all happy when you are able to vote your guy into office until then he is our President.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 4:55 PM
Comment #372949

Still those polls show that over 50% disapprove of his job performance phx8. So what’s your point??????????? More and more are disapproving of his job performance doesn’t mean anything????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 18, 2013 4:59 PM
Comment #372950

Speak…I don’t need a different prez to be happy. Happiness is an inside job and not dependent upon the vagaries of politics.

bama spread over $7 Trillion around…didn’t you get any Speak?

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 18, 2013 5:04 PM
Comment #372951

KAP
Not to me and I’m not phx8. I go by what I like what he is doing not by what you like or what someone else likes.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 5:05 PM
Comment #372952

Nope don’t have cable Speak!!!!!!!!!! I use the internet and all the MSM!!!!!!!!!!!! Even the liberal ones!!!!!!!! Your right I don’t like our lier in chief!!!!!!!!!!! You and all those liberals/progressives can like him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 18, 2013 5:08 PM
Comment #372953

Royal
I get what I earn. I’m sorry you think there are so many people getting some kind of free ride. I’m sure that causes you great consternation but I really don’t care.

I will have to end this conversation the week end is upon us and I have a roast pork with dumplings and saur kraut dinner to prepare for about 16 people (kids and grandkids). I find that much more rewarding than trying to communicate with people who just don’t want to know about much but just want to say everything is bad, bad, bad. It’s tiring.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 18, 2013 5:11 PM
Comment #372954

Sorry you missed the $7 Trillion handout Speak. Maybe next time. Enjoy your weekend.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 18, 2013 5:15 PM
Comment #372956

Wow. What an entertaining football game. Too bad it’s being held on a baseball field.

Here’s what I expect to be necessary: The ACA will have to be revised. We will have to revisit healthcare reform. We will have to see whether the mandate produces the desired results on a national level, or whether we need some other mechanism to keep costs low.

I’m more inclined to think that this about finding the right policy levers. Make no mistake, if we fail to rein in costs and improve care, PRIVATE healthcare costs will be both a disaster for the private sector and the public.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 18, 2013 5:36 PM
Comment #372959

That sounds like a grand experiment that the progressives just love to pull over on people.
“Let us pass the bill and then see what is in it.”
More and more people are finding out what is in it, and they don’t like it.
It is so irresponsible to pass a law and then before it is implemented go back and fix it. Sounds so Washingtonese.
Common sense is to do it right the first time, of course common sense is not part of the progressive congress. Evidence is shown every day in the movment of their lips and hearing the noise that rattles forth.

Posted by: tom humes at October 18, 2013 6:16 PM
Comment #372961

I like that Obama signed off on hunting down and killing Al Qaida’s top recruiter and American citizen Anwar al Awlaki.

He was, IMHO, one of the single most dangerous persons in the world before drones took him out.

Well done Obama!!!

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 18, 2013 6:52 PM
Comment #372966

The expanded Medicaid coverage of Obamacare has already covered 56,000 in Oregon, and 600,000 in CA.

Posted by: phx8 at October 19, 2013 12:32 AM
Comment #372968

phx8

Medicaid is a type of welfare. The fact that we can extend welfare, i.e. put more people on the dole sitting on the wagon instead of pulling it, it not a success.

I think we see a fundamental divide in our thinking. The fact that you write that indicates that you think it a success. If I found this factoid first, I might well write it as an indictment of the system, proof of its misguided nature.

This is really a great example of disagreement. Thank you. People sometimes say that if people just talked over their differences, they would find agreement. Here is a counter example. This could not be reconciled.

We disagree about the meaning of health insurance. People like me want to control cost, expanding coverage is a secondary goal and I think there is already too much waste. People like you want to expand coverage, controlling cost is a secondary goal. Both are valid. I would tell you that if we cannot control costs, we will not be able to achieve your goal of expanding coverage. You would tell me that health care is a right and expanding coverage might reduce per unit cost. It never ends.

Posted by: CJ at October 19, 2013 5:45 AM
Comment #372976

Meanwhile, about 260,000 people have signed up in seven states with exchanges. Also, there is apparently a federal 800 number, and people are having no problem signing up over the phone. Odd that the old-timey method would work better than the internet… At least at this point.

CJ,
When everyone has access to good health care, everyone benefits. Everyone. And every society that I know of has provided health care to its people, whether that is a tribe, city-state, or nation.

People without health care insurance cost more than the price of covering them. Those people visit emergency rooms, and 60% of those people never pay their bills. In addition, they do not obtain preventative care.

Posted by: phx8 at October 19, 2013 5:31 PM
Comment #372978

phx8

I am just pointing to our legitimate differences.

I don’t know if the price of covering them is worth it w/o knowing the price and the other effects.

We Americans already spend more on health care, in absolute terms and per capita, than anyone else. Even those of us with good insurance do not get a good deal.

I lived in Norway for four years. Indeed, they have national health care, but they get much less than a well insured American does. I know this from personal experience as I was hit by a car in Norway and one of my kids was born there. BUT Norwegians are healthier than we are, largely because they have a healthier lifestyle. They also de-facto ration health care.

I read an interesting article by Ezekiel Emmanuel, Rahm’s brother. He points out the MRI machines may make people LESS healthy. When you do a scan on your back, they almost always find something, since no spine is perfect. But if you get “care” for that, it will often produce an expensive worse outcome than doing nothing.

I am skeptical of medicine. My father got an exam in 1945 after being discharged from the Army-Air Corps. He never went to a doctor again until he died in 1996. I am not sure if we can say that he went to the doctor even then, since he just died at home. IMO, people go to doctors too often. Often it doesn’t do them any good and may cause harm.

Posted by: CJ at October 19, 2013 6:11 PM
Comment #372980

phx8

BTW - we do provide health care for all. It depends on how much and how.

Beyond that, a large % of our trouble is caused by lifestyle choice issues. All those fat guys, the boozers, the druggies, smokers and just lazy sac-o-shit are letting us all down.

Posted by: CJ at October 19, 2013 6:17 PM
Comment #372987

C&J-
You’re not skeptical of medicine, you’re prejudiced against it. An MRI is a fantastic diagnostic tool. It allows you to see things in a way that you couldn’t before, and it’s contributed much to our understanding of the human body and the brain in particular. It’s not to blame when somebody comes along and doesn’t use the right medical judgment to balance the trauma of surgery against the benefit of dealing with what the MRI found.

As for Medicaid, I would not like to think what the state of public health would be without it. People need healthcare. It keeps them productive and reduces lost hours. It also allows us to keep track of people who get sick so we can nip epidemics in the bud.

Conservative thinking is often that the best system is everybody for themselves. But many aspects of life, especially infectious disease, do not obey our sense of self-interest or social class. Some people assumed that AIDS would remain a disease of homosexuals. It did not, because in essence it wasn’t a disease of homosexuals, it was a disease of blood, serum, and the immune system. So, people got it because their partners switch hit, and then it got spread through heterosexual sex, too. And then it spread through blood transfusions, and so the notion that it was a disease that was the wages of sin let it spread, too.

When it came down to it, AIDS didn’t care. It wasn’t a punishment from God, it was a natural accident, and by not treating it that way, we allowed it to destroy many lives. We got caught up in the politics and the religious moralism of the disease, and neglected to deal with the simple biology of it.

Not everybody is as lucky in the genetic lottery as your father was, or perhaps as committed to gutting out any sign of illness.

We need to be willing to test our conclusions, because reality often has a greater sense of nuance than we do, and its fertility of possiblity is much greater than we can imagine. If we simply assume we know all about something, we often miss the rough detail.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 20, 2013 8:39 AM
Comment #372991

Stephen

Look up Ezekiel Emmanuel. He is the one who says this about the MRI. It doesn’t mean we never use it. It is indeed a great tool. But it can be overused.

Re Medicaid - it also depends on what you are doing with it. Merely extending it to cover more people does not indicate a victory in the health care challenge. Like the MRI, it is a valuable tool but using it more may be good, neutral or bad. When Phx8 counted extending Medicaid as a success of heath care reform, he was mistaken. You may think it is better to extent it, but it is not reform.

Re AIDS - it was and is a public health problem. The solution was delayed by the fact that it was treated as a punishment by some AND as a civil rights issue by others.

Not only gays and drug users get AIDS, but it makes a lot of sense to concentrate on those groups, just as you might be more aware of lifestyle considerations in other lifestyle influenced diseases such as lung cancer or heart disease. We followed a misguided public heath policy that resisted using the available information to limit the spread. We don’t do that with other diseases.

The problem with AIDS is precisely that it was transformed into a moral and political issue but by BOTH sides.

Re my father - I understand that he was exceptional in some ways, but I also see that people seek medical attention way too fast. And given our risk averse system we give them all the tests etc.

Let me indulge in another anecdote. I was hit by a car while riding my bike in Norway. Among other things, I broke my big toe. They pulled it back into place and told me it would hurt for awhile, but that it didn’t matter if if was not really straight. Limp a little. No further treatment required or offered. Back in America, one of my coworkers showed up with a employer-provided “rascal” - one of those little electric carts that fat people ride around with in Wall-Mart. I asked her what was wrong. She told me she had broken her big toe. The difference - in Norway you just walk it off at no additional cost and no harm. In America we spend thousands to no particular effect.


Posted by: CJ at October 20, 2013 10:36 AM
Comment #373006

“The problem with AIDS is precisely that it was transformed into a moral and political issue but by BOTH sides.”

Not true. The Reagan administration treated AIDS as a moral issue. Only Surgeon General Koop had the integrity to treat it as a public health issue.

I know because I was in Washington meeting with administration officials on prevention measures. I was aghast at the reluctance of the administration to support simple prudent measures such as clean needle programs to reduce spread into the heterosexual community. Any protective measures were perceived as support of either the homosexual life style or drug abuse. It didn’t seem to matter that people were dying or that the disease could spread to the heterosexual community.

Posted by: Rich at October 21, 2013 9:23 AM
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