Opening the parks and Wisconsin schools Obama

At least that what he said with his actions. Maybe he read my post. Obama opened the Mall to a group protesting in favor of immigration reform. Of course, he is not as consistent as I am. He would kick out old veterans perhaps on their last visit to the monuments to their courage long ago, but he opens the gates for those who serve his political purposes.

It has been almost a year since we elected the wrong man president. We have to wait another three years until he is gone. It will be a long three years.

The guys opening the Mall to protestors claimed that there was a special exemption for those exercising their first amendment rights. That would include my "Occupy America" guys. We are golden. Obama agrees with us, or he would if he could be consistent.

In a late breaking story, my home state of Wisconsin stood up to Obama's silliness. Obama tried to close the Mississippi River; Governor Scott Walter opened it again to the American people. This is the kind of man that should be our president.

The State of Wisconsin partly funds and/or manages some of the attractions. It seems that Obama has no right to close them. Too bad Barack. Wisconsin has kicked his rear. Great. Other state should defend the rights of the people as well.

Posted by Christine & John at October 9, 2013 6:08 AM
Comments
Comment #372186

Lets remember that Obama didn’t shut down the government. Congress did. Specifically a small number of radicals that couldn’t accept the clean CR negotiated by their party leadership even though it was quite favorable to their position. Just had to try this backdoor extortion nullification of a law duly passed by Congress and ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court.

Posted by: Rich at October 8, 2013 7:46 PM
Comment #372187

Rich

The Obama folks instructed Federal bureaucracies to make the shut down more painful. Obviously, the lack of money did not require shutting down the Mississippi. But thanks to Governor Scott Walker, Obama is put in his place and the Father of Waters flows once again unvexed to the sea.

Posted by: CJ at October 8, 2013 8:02 PM
Comment #372188

Well, C&J, I will give you credit for avoiding the substantive issues here. Better to have people focused on who walks in a park rather than on the actual issues. A good sign for Obama and the Democrats when the opposition wants to divert attention to peripheral issues.

Posted by: Rich at October 8, 2013 8:17 PM
Comment #372189

“Obama tried to close the Mississippi River; Governor Scott Walter opened it again to the American people.”

How silly, C&J. The issue was a boat ramp on the Mississippi River. It was opened due to a longstanding agreement with the state of Wisconsin over operation of the ramp.

Posted by: Rich at October 8, 2013 8:25 PM
Comment #372190

Rich

They never should have tried to close it.

Posted by: CJ at October 8, 2013 8:26 PM
Comment #372191

Darn those federal bureaucrats! Deny 800,000 people the paychecks they earned, and the next thing you know, they are getting surly and making things difficult. The nerve! Of course, they are only being difficult because of the Obama administration urged them to be that way. Ordinarily, they would have been totally fine getting jobbed on their paychecks.

CJ,
Senator Cruz visited Virginia yesterday, your state, to promote the campaign of the candidate for Governor, a guy as far right as they come named Ken Cuchinelli. Did you see them? Not together, of course. Cuchinelli would not allow himself to be seen with Cruz or photographed in his presence. Anyway, you had better hurry if you want to see Cuchinelli give a speech, because the polls show the Republican Lt Gov is getting slaughtered, and his days of making public appearances seem severely numbered.

Posted by: phx8 at October 8, 2013 9:39 PM
Comment #372243

Why are you always saying that these disruptions and reductions in funding are going to be painless? I mean, essentially, we hear this crap from Republicans who are trying to selectively restore funding to the charismatic megafauna of the federal zoo so they don’t get blamed for clubbing the federal equivalent of baby seals.

It just tells us how naive Republicans are nowadays about the relative popularity of their anti-government crusade. They get built up about it by these pundits, and then when it really happens, you folks are insisting on re-opening all the places your de-funding efforts touch.

I mean, really, your side is just running what amounts to an epic farce, built on the differences between what your poor, miseducated Conservative believe big government does, and what it really does.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 9, 2013 7:10 PM
Comment #372253

Stephen

I am not now nor have I ever been in favor of shutting down the government. I wish the President and Congress would come to some agreement.

However, I understand that there are more and less painful ways to take cuts. You really do not have to shut down most parks, since they are often supported mostly by local, state and private entities in partnership with the Federal government. They can pick up the slack, as Wisconsin has done.

Indeed, I think we should make choices. That means that some things get funded more than others. Not all government programs are equally valuable. it is the job of our elected official to make choices re what should get money and what should not and how much.

What is happening defacto is that we have “sunset” provisions. With the sequester, everything is cut. Political leaders must now decide what gets money back. It would be foolish simply to restore funding to the former levels w/o making adjustments.

Let’s talk practical politics here. Leave aside your knee jerk ideology. IMO, Republicans made a mistake by picking a fight over shut down. They will lose. Most mainstream Republicans saw this coming, but the radicals were able to push. That is the weakness on the right.

Weakness on the left is more structural. The sequester is the law and cannot be easily changed. This means there is a built in bias to shrink government if nothing is done to change that. Republicans get what they want if they just do nothing.

In the case of the shutdown, Republicans need to beg Obama to negotiate and he need not. In the sequester, the shoe is on the other foot. Shut down will pass; sequester is longer term.

I don’t know if you are familiar with the term BATNA. It means Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement, i.e. what you get if you don’t talk. The stronger your BATNA, the stronger your position. Obama’s BATNA in the shutdown is good. Republican BATNA in sequester is better.

You will see this play out. Obama would be wise to give some ground now in return for a better position later, but I am not sure he understands this.

Posted by: CJ at October 9, 2013 8:51 PM
Comment #372262

C&J-
The sequester was deliberately written to be indiscriminate. That was supposed to prompt a compromise, but guess what? Your people weren’t interested in compromise, not even the lopsidedly favorable kind.

I don’t see your politics as practical. Your politics, if we’re talking you yourself, has been to give in to and cover for a bunch of losers in your party who don’t get that compromise is a part of working in a legislature where you don’t hold all the cards, and failure to cohere with the rest of your party can render a majority merely nominal in its effect.

The Republican’s BATNA,a new term to be sure, but not a new concept to me, doesn’t seem so good. Their BATNA is being responsible for an economic crash. They didn’t fare so well the last time a crash happened on their watch, the last time they were seen to lapse into denial rather than do something about it.

Your best alternative, negotiated agreement or otherwise, is to quit getting too big for your constitutional britches and accept compromise as a natural consequence of not holding all the legislative cards.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 10, 2013 10:15 AM
Comment #372268

Stephen

When Obama proposed the sequester, he must have thought it would make both sides compromise. He was wrong.

The Republicans have a poor BATNA in the shutdown, but a good one in the sequester. Government is shrinking and Congress must take affirmative action to put money back. If Republicans do nothing, government shrinks. This is more a Republican than a Democratic wish.

So it is very likely that Republicans can get more of what they want by doing nothing in the medium term. After the elections of 2014, there may be a different plan.

Posted by: CJ at October 10, 2013 5:55 PM
Comment #372273

C&J,

You are correct except that some batshit radical Republicans had to push the envelope over Obamacare. They gave the President and the Democrats a political win. The public thinks that the Republicans are not only unreasonable about attempting the hold the nation hostage over a law duly passed by Congress but are dangerous in the extent to which they will go to get their way.

Posted by: Rich at October 10, 2013 7:53 PM
Comment #372275

Rich

The advantage shifts, however, after the shutdown ends. That is why I think it makes sense to all sides to make a deal now.

I agree that it was dumb to push the ObamaCare thing. ObamaCare is not working. If not for the shutdown, the news would be full of the failures of ObamaCare. Republicans helped save Obama, for now.

Posted by: CJ at October 10, 2013 8:05 PM
Comment #372276

Republicans desperately want a deal ASAP. They have been uniformly positive about their meeting with the President today. Very good discussion, he listened, etc.

Posted by: Rich at October 10, 2013 8:25 PM
Comment #372278
It has been almost a year since we elected the wrong man president. We have to wait another three years until he is gone. It will be a long three years.

C&J, Seriously! The American people voted and the right man won. The second choice was far worse. Obama was the best of the bunch, and the American people saw it that way. What puzzles me is how you conservative claimed he was a weak leader yet here he is strong enough to face the Teabaggers in Congress down. Not only has he exposed the blowhards that sought to hold the country hostage to their unreasonable demands he has stood up for the country and the country has taken notice. The repub brand is in the same league as the Edsel. Cruz, the current repub version of Senator Joe McCarthy the fascist from Wisconsin, has gone up in smoke, a laughing stock in his own party. Obama has risen in the polls because he hasn’t caved to the demands of the new McCarthyites in Congress. Yet you say the American people elected the wrong president,Ha!

Oh yeah and support for Obamacare has risen as well, and you blame the American for picking the wrong president,Well the jokes on you.


The Obama folks instructed Federal bureaucracies to make the shut down more painful.

C&J do you have this from any credible source? I know Alec Jones and Infowars as well as many other conservative hate sights are spouting the gibberish without any real evidence but have you fallen that low as well?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/poll-republican-shutdown_n_4080942.html

Posted by: j2t2 at October 10, 2013 8:52 PM
Comment #372279

j2, Jack is right the wrong man won. Just like during the Bush era, the wrong man won. Democrats during the Bush 2 ran 2 idiots against him and lost, the same with Republicans they ran 2 of the same and lost. You link to a liberal media outlet and you get liberal BS. Maybe both sides ought to link to UNBIASED sources.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 10, 2013 9:01 PM
Comment #372284

Christine and John, Hi! One good thing is that for the next 3 years the American people won’t have to be taken hostage by political terrorists like Sen. Cruz and all those Republicans who failed to understand how to respond to Cruz and his army bent on destroying the U.S. Government. I think more reasonable Republicans in the House and Senate have learned a valuable but politically painful lesson from the anti-government Tea Partyers.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 11, 2013 2:41 AM
Comment #372287

j2t2

What I don’t like about Obama’s leadership is that he just does not lead. He can indeed be stubborn, but that is not necessarily strength. Good leadership, like FDR, LBJ, Reagan or Clinton, anticipates the moves of both supporters and opponents and smooths things before the big confrontations. Good leadership often gets opponents to cooperate, or at least go along. I know you blame Republicans for everything, but don’t you think that good leadership good have gotten at least one Republican to break ranks on something like health care? We know that Republicans cannot hold their group together on many things, how is it that they can always hold together when Obama is doing the asking?

President Obama decrees. He forgets that he is leader of a Republic with checks on his authority. Even his own party doesn’t much like him.

RE Ted Cruz - I do not support him. He is strange. Most Republicans don’t support him. You keep bringing him up, but I more or less agree with you on it.

Re credible source - I know what instructions have been given. Organizations that have the funds to do programs have been told not to do them. I have seen the instructions.

David

Welcome back. Cruz belongs to you guys in Texas. I think he is just one of those irritants, like a Bernie Sanders or a Dick Durban, but more boisterous. He does not want solutions. We should probably discount the left 10% of the Democrats and the right 10% of the Republicans, but then we would not be representing the American people and nutty as these guys are they tend to bring in new ideas. Sometimes the system needs a kick in the rear.

Posted by: CJ at October 11, 2013 5:56 AM
Comment #372292
You link to a liberal media outlet and you get liberal BS. Maybe both sides ought to link to UNBIASED sources.

KAP, it is an NBC/WSJ poll referred to in the link. Why are you in denial about the results of the poll? I suppose you believe it is both sides that have caused the government shutdown that has resulted in the parks shutting down etc.

Why is it the extremist right believes Obamacare is so bad for the country that we must kill the country to save it, yet they blame dems for shutting the government down whilst refusing to claim ownership for defunding Obamacare provision they insisted upon that actually was the reason government shutdown. The lack of cajones, the running away from the personal responsibility principle has shown the Teabaggers in Congress for what they are. The American people have seen this and the polls reflect the lack of integrity from the right wing of this country.

Re credible source - I know what instructions have been given. Organizations that have the funds to do programs have been told not to do them. I have seen the instructions.

You have seen instructions from Obama or as you say “the Obama folks” to make the shutdown more painful? You have it in writing yet have not released it to credible sources. Nor has anyone else! So it remains fodder in the conservativehate blogosphere instead of on the front pages of the local newspapers!

The reason I question this is the wording “Organizations that have the funds to do programs have been told not to do them” which seems to me the definition of the partial shutdown. As if the rules have been followed and the right wing is using this as some propaganda.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 11, 2013 11:12 AM
Comment #372293

j2, your getting as bad as S.D. writing about stuff that I never wrote about. The only one is the poll and one clue is NBC pretty much biased towards the left. WSJ that can go either way.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 12:06 PM
Comment #372296

KAP,

The poll cited by j2t2 was actually conducted by HART RESEARCH ASSOCIATES/PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES . This is a partnership between a Dem Pollster (Peter D. Hart) and a Republican one (Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies). So cut the whining about biased sources. NBC/WSJ did their homework on this one.

Also, if you don’t think Rupert Murdoch’s WSJ has a rightist editorial policy, you are out of your mind.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 1:08 PM
Comment #372301

Warren, Personally I don’t hold much trust in polls so NBC left leaning and WSJ right leaning??????????? But I do have to say your link which didn’t work that I googled myself is quite interesting, but as I say I don’t hold much trust in polls. But I can say is that I hold both parties at fault for the way things are going, both are acting like 2 year olds. Obama needs to take some lessons from Bill Clinton on compromising. Obama’s arrogance is as bad as the Tea Parties.

Posted by: Rich KAP:itan at October 11, 2013 2:13 PM
Comment #372309
j2, your getting as bad as S.D. writing about stuff that I never wrote about.

KAP, It’s called moving the discussion forward. I did respond to your bias comment then added a question or two of my own.

BTW thanks for comparing me to S.D. I take that as a compliment.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 11, 2013 3:45 PM
Comment #372311

j2, YES I believe both side are to blame for the shutdown. Both are acting like 2 year olds about getting their way. As far as Obamacare I don’t know but if it is like medicare and Medicaid it will be bankrupt by the end of the decade. Mass. had problems with it statewide how much more so will it be a problem nationwide. Tell me why j2 is the MSM silent about Obama’s 37% approval and were very vocal about Bush’s 37% approval? Isn’t it called BIAS.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 3:58 PM
Comment #372315

KAP,

My apologies for the bad link. Nevertheless, I am glad you found the pollster’s site on your own.

I don’t hold much trust in polls
If that is your opinion, then you shouldn’t attack j2t2 for citing a “biased source”. I would agree that it was unwise to link to the Huffington Post because it is a secondary source. It would have been much better to link to the primary source and come to one’s own conclusions instead of relying on Ariel Edwards-Levy.
But I can say is that I hold both parties at fault for the way things are going, both are acting like 2 year olds. Obama needs to take some lessons from Bill Clinton on compromising. Obama’s arrogance is as bad as the Tea Parties.

It is fallacious to adopt a “pox on both houses” position here. This is an example of False Equivalance. The continuing resolution passed by the Senate 2 weeks ago, already contains a near capitulation to GOP spending priorities. The resolution sets spending at a scant 19 billion dollars greater than that proposed by Paul Ryan. If Democrats were to “compromise” with the Republicans, what exactly can they expect get out of such a deal?

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 4:42 PM
Comment #372320

Warren, CR’s accomplish nothing. When the Senate can come up with a yearly budget that both sides can agree on then we can talk about blame til then both sides are acting like 2 year olds.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 5:02 PM
Comment #372325
When the Senate can come up with a yearly budget

You mean like this one?

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 5:12 PM
Comment #372334

WHAT BUDGET? Your link provided NOTHING but a blank pdf page and a lot of committee gooblyguk. There hasn’t been a budget in 5 years. Warren.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 5:36 PM
Comment #372337

“The continuing resolution passed by the Senate 2 weeks ago, already contains a near capitulation to GOP spending priorities. The resolution sets spending at a scant 19 billion dollars greater than that proposed by Paul Ryan.”

Thanks, Warren. This point seems to escape everyone. There already was a compromise. The Republicans got a lot.

If the media, the general public and even conservatives understood that fact, the Tea Party/Republican extortion would seem all the more outrageous.

Posted by: Rich at October 11, 2013 5:54 PM
Comment #372339

Rich KAPitan,

The link works for me, but here’s a second shot at it:
http://www.budget.senate.gov/democratic/index.cfm/senatebudget

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 6:06 PM
Comment #372340

The Senate passed their budget last spring, however the GOP has blocked the process of appointing conferees to negotiate with the House of Representatives.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/19-times-democrats-tried-to-negotiate-with-republicans-20131007

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 6:11 PM
Comment #372346

CJ, one huge difference between Durban and Cruz. The entire Republican Party in Congress save a few Senators marched to his tune to shut down government and default on the debt, harming Americans, the economy, and the Republican Party internally. That cannot be said of Durban. Well, one can say anything as Cruz does, but, it wouldn’t be truthful.

The American public has an uncanny ability to eventually get down to the nub of the matter on these high conflicted partisan arguments. Obama Care frees people to get and remain healthier through health care, and frees them from financial bankruptcy. At the individual level of the voter, asking what does this mean for me, that will be the majority opinion in less than 24 months, Obama Care does far more good than harm.

Shutting down government and defaulting on our national debts, BAD. Most Americans will agree to that as well. The problem the GOP has is simple. It represents wealthy and super wealthy investment interests. This forces them to take stands which the majority of Americans will resist. On a host of policy issues, there is a dynamic tension between what is best for wealthy investment interests and what is best for non-wealthy American family.

As was famously said, You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but, you can’t fool all the people all the time. They eventually catch on and reject the perpetrators trying to fool them.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 11, 2013 6:36 PM
Comment #372358

Speaking of the devil and he is back to enlighten us with his plethora of pseudo-scholarship. DRR, how are things going over at Air America, or whatever you called that blog site of yours? I heard it fell on it’s face. You know why liberal websites, talk radio, or leftist TV fail? Because when a bunch of liberals sit around patting each other on the back about the their stand on gun control, abortion, global warming, and the success of government entitlements; it is only they who are interested. Without the input of conservatives, every liberal site fails.

I hope you just visiting and not planning on staying. No matter what niceties people may say, you were not missed.

Posted by: DSP2195 at October 11, 2013 8:30 PM
Comment #372359
Tell me why j2 is the MSM silent about Obama’s 37% approval and were very vocal about Bush’s 37% approval? Isn’t it called BIAS.

Well KAP I would think it is because the poll you refer to is just one poll of many. The average of all polls for the week (of the poll you and many conservatives seem to want to point to as proof of media bias) is 45 per cent approval rating not the 37 per cent of the one poll. All the other polls showed the presidents approval rating edging up not down as the one poll the conservative media grasped onto(Yet you accuse the MSM of being biased, how misguided is that).
So the conservative media did jump on it while ignoring the rest of the polls to justify the media bias myth they espouse while the rest of them “biased media folks” didn’t make as big a deal out of it because it wasn’t really a big deal. But that is just my opinion. Now you may not like the link in this comment and claim it to be biased but it is factual information, more than you can say about Breitbart and the “CMSM”

You guys on the right are something KAP. You eat up the tripe from Breitbart and other hate media outlets as factual and then accuse more responsible media outlets of bias. At what point in time do you come to the truth that you are being misinformed, with half truths and outright lies from the conservative media KAP? I know this is off subject but a free press is essential to our nation KAP. When you consistently are shown the media outlets you use for information are found to be misleading you, shouldn’t you call them to task on it rather than repeat the bad information? That is how the press stay free IMHO. At the very least you owe it to yourself and the American people to admit it isn’t the “MSM” that it biased.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 11, 2013 8:34 PM
Comment #372360

David R. Remer,

I would be very happy if you returned to WatchBlog. Unfortunately, I always found Discuss America’s interface difficult to use, which is why I stopped visiting it. However, I think you would be a valuable contributor here. DSP2195 is just afraid of you because unlike Stephen, you don’t have tolerance for bullshit.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 8:43 PM
Comment #372362

Thanks WP for defending DRR and Air America, or whatever. DRR should be an expert on BS since he spewed so much of it. And then, when he heard something he didn’t like, he just banned the commenter and erased the comment. Believe me WP, there were a whole lot of people happy to see him gone. And you might have been one of them, would have to check the archives.

Posted by: DSP2195 at October 11, 2013 9:14 PM
Comment #372374

DSP2195, Warren and David

I would not want to drive anybody away, with only the exceptions of trolls.

Posted by: CJ at October 12, 2013 6:44 AM
Comment #372377

CJ, yes, the trolls. True, I removed trolls before I left WB. Odd isn’t it, that the trolls are still upset over that, all this time later. Hate and grudges take their toll on folks who can’t divorce them self from them. So much baggage to haul around. Human nature is fascinating.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 12, 2013 9:41 AM
Comment #372381

Remer the only people you removed were the ones who disagreed with you.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 12, 2013 10:36 AM
Comment #372386

Kap, you are entitled to your own opinion, but the facts remain distinctly different from your opinion. Nuff said about those who continue to violate the rules of participation which I wrote, and are still published on this site at the link below by the same name.

Posted by: David R. Remer at October 12, 2013 3:08 PM
Comment #372387

Kap, you are correct. DRR removed anyone who disagreed with him. If we have to go back to him controlling the agenda, it will be adios for me. It’s bad enough listening to Stephen’s liberal bullshit, let along having Remer control who is allowed to speak. My question is, what happened to his liberal blog site that went belly up? He tried to drag people from WB to his own site. Didn’t work so well, did it? I have no use for him. An arrogant POS.

Posted by: DSP2195 at October 12, 2013 3:39 PM
Post a comment