Occupy America

What a great idea! Occupy Wall Street activists illegally squatted (often literally) on government and private property claiming to be taking back what was theirs. They were called heroes by some. What if some true heroes (i.e. veterans and good citizens) occupied our national heritage site that really are ours, put off limits to them by the current occupant of the White House.

It sounds like a good idea. It would call attention to the rights of Americans to their history and heritage. If the OWS folks can do it, why not honest citizens. Of course, I expect that the honest citizens would be neater and more respectful of the places they were occupying.

Maybe it is time for the 99% to take back our heritage from the less than 1% - the political class.

Posted by Christine & John at October 8, 2013 9:42 AM
Comments
Comment #372135

Well, C&J, that actually happened. Don’t know your history? The Bonus Army marched on Washington D.C. during the Great Depression. The Republican president, Herbert Hoover, ordered troops in to disband the Bonus Army, and the soldiers- led by none other than Douglas MacArthur- shot and killed some veterans. This incident turned the American people decisively against Hoover and the Republicans.

Posted by: phx8 at October 7, 2013 8:06 PM
Comment #372136

phx8

The goals and motives were different, as was the situation three generations ago.

Presumably, Obama would not order troops to disperse today’s protestors. I suppose if Obama killed some of the protestors opinion would turn against him too.

Posted by: CJ at October 7, 2013 8:14 PM
Comment #372138

What the heck? You want to rally your supporters to occupy federal sites that have been shut down by your own actions. How absurd.

Better idea. You could just encourage conservative Tea Party types to vote a clean CR and fund the law of the land.

Posted by: Rich at October 7, 2013 8:41 PM
Comment #372139

Rich

Republicans in the House passed a bill that would open the parks. Besides that, I don’t see why they need to close down the monuments even absent full appropriations. Rangers and police are still there, manning the barricades. They may as well let the people in. Maybe they could forgo the guided tours & extras, but you don’t really need somebody to explain the Lincoln Memorial to you anyway.

I also think Federal employees have a duty to mitigate the potential damage, i.e. do as much as they can even with less money. Instead, the Obama folks have instructed them to stand down even on things they can do w/o much money. For example, they really do not need to close outdoor monuments.

Posted by: CJ at October 7, 2013 8:47 PM
Comment #372140

Do as much as they can with less money?!!! Are you kidding?
The ‘essential personnel’ are working without pay!!!

Posted by: phx8 at October 7, 2013 9:31 PM
Comment #372141

phx8

They will get paid. They always have in the past and the House voted 407-0 to pay Federal workers when the problem is settled. If you are on the job, you may as well work.

Posted by: CJ at October 7, 2013 9:52 PM
Comment #372142

phx8

It just occurred to me that you think that I mean less money for the workers. I mean less money for the operation. For example, a Federal worker may have been unable to travel or attend a conference for lack of appropriation. But they will still get their full salary. And those who are on the job should try to do as much as they can to minimize suffering for taxpayers. BUT they are being told to do less by the political masters.

Posted by: CJ at October 7, 2013 9:56 PM
Comment #372145
They may as well let the people in.

But this will lead to wear & tear (and the threat of vandalism) that will require money to repair. In the absence of appropriations to repair/maintain the facilities, all of our public spaces would go to hell if we didn’t prohibit people from entering.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 7, 2013 11:36 PM
Comment #372146

Let’s just look at how ridiculous Obama has become: Obama is a empty suit who thinks he a dictator. These priests are offering their services to the military for FREE. WHAT ABOUT THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE? Do we have any liberals out there that want to tell us about the separation of church and state? Obama has turned America into a 3rd world banana republic. Does the government have the right to tell priests they cannot minister to the military? Will Obama be responsible for sending people to hell. Perhaps he has been called a messiah so many times by the Obama worshippers; that he actually believes he has power to send people to hell.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 7, 2013 11:49 PM
Comment #372147

Warren Porter, you have mistakenly taken patriots who actually have an interest in national treasures, for the OWS protestors whose goal was to vandalize and deface public property. Once again, your childish mentality cannot explain Obama’s actions. We already know by the testimony of DC Park Rangers, that the Obama administration told them to “make life on American’s as difficult as possible”. It’s hard to defend the indefensible, isn’t it?

Obama has spent more money providing security to prevent Americans from taking pictures of Mt. Rushmore, than he would have spent to provide the normal employees. Tell me, why would Obama block a public highway to prevent people from taking pictures?

Are these all just little mistakes? Like the closing off of the access to Mt. Vernon, even though Mt. Vernon is privately owned. I smell a conspiracy.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 7, 2013 11:59 PM
Comment #372148

Correct link to comment #372146:
http://www.catholicvote.org/military-priests-face-arrest-for-celebrating-mass-in-defiance-of-shutdown/

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 12:12 AM
Comment #372150

PH,

It costs more money to open up these places than to keep them shut. Plain and simple. Mt Vernon parking lot is partly owned by the government so its the same story there.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 8, 2013 1:25 AM
Comment #372152

Warren

The rangers and cops are there. They can stop vandalism as they would under normal conditions. Wear and tear is normal too. It need not be repaired immediately. There was widespread destruction on the Mall during Obama’s first inaugural. (He was so popular back then that big crowds came.) They didn’t get around to repairing much of that until last year. We assume they will have an appropriation sometimes between now and 2017.


They can lock places that do not have attendants. This will make it harder for people to go to the bathroom etc, but they can walk over to McDonald’s nearby.

It just need not be such a near total lock down.

Most government employees want to do their jobs. Many are still on those jobs, but have received instructions to stand down, even when doing more would cost no additional money. My philosophy is to move forward on the job until and unless you find that you cannot for lack of appropriation. This is not what our president evidently wants.

It is similar to his ploy of shutting down the White House. They call it the “Washington Monument ploy,” i.e. no matter what, you shut down the things that people will notice and will cause the most pain.

Re my original posting - people could “occupy” monuments the same way OWS occupied. OWS was very expensive to local businesses and governments. I saw personally how the destroyed McPherson Sq in Washington. An “occupation” by good citizens would not be as messy or expensive as OWS but would make the point.

Posted by: CJ at October 8, 2013 5:44 AM
Comment #372153

BTW - This occupy thing could be bipartisan. Presumably everybody wants to end this disagreement between the president and congress.

It will be a good thing to get citizens engaged. If the lefties behave well (we don’t want the violence and mess of OWS), it would show the true solidarity of the people in favor of solutions over divisive politics.

Posted by: CJ at October 8, 2013 5:50 AM
Comment #372158
The rangers and cops are there.

But they are only a skeleton force to keep people out. If you wanted to open up the monuments/parks you’d need to bring back all the other furloughed employees in order to protect public property from damage/vandalism.

We assume they will have an appropriation sometimes between now and 2017.
Legally speaking, we can’t assume that. Under current law, there will be no more appropriations, ever. The executive branch is tasked with enforcing current law as it is written today. Not the law that it thinks might be written tomorrow.
They can lock places that do not have attendants. This will make it harder for people to go to the bathroom etc, but they can walk over to McDonald’s nearby.

It just need not be such a near total lock down.


Oftentimes, there’s no way to just lock down pieces of a property. The whole thing must be closed. Take garbage cans for example, I assume the guy who empties the trash is furloughed. Visitors to an unfunded monument will inevitably put their trash in the refuse. The garbage will build up and make a mess. This is just one example of many things that cannot be done without funding that impedes opening up these spaces.
Re my original posting - people could “occupy” monuments the same way OWS occupied. OWS was very expensive to local businesses and governments. I saw personally how the destroyed McPherson Sq in Washington. An “occupation” by good citizens would not be as messy or expensive as OWS but would make the point.
An occupation be conservatives would be just as expensive as OWS was. OWS happened on private property with the permission of the property owner, which is why it was able to take place. What you propose is blatant disregard of our laws just so you can invade public property in order to embarrass the President. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 8, 2013 10:21 AM
Comment #372159


OWS was a ‘protest’ to be given something for nothing, where this protest would be to see what vets and good citizens have paid for.

Want to learn about or pay respect to your country? Reflect on or remember the men who fought for her? Tough! That might make the President look bad.

Would never get the support from the left that it deserves, C&J.

Posted by: kctim at October 8, 2013 12:36 PM
Comment #372160

Warren Porter, you are beating a dead horse. We have given you examples of how Obama’s goal is to make life as difficult as possible on the American people; you know its true, but continue to make arguments defending Obama.

I gave examples of jut last week, being at the New River Gorge national park in WV, and at a picnic area on the New River itself. Both places had yellow tape put up by park rangers. In both places, the people ignored the tape and crossed over to the picnic area and walked the overlooks at the gorge. The park rangers were there and even waved at the people going through the tape. They realized how ignorant the Obama goal was, and how unnecessary.

Furthermore, the very same people who the left are crying about not drawing a paycheck, will get ALL their backpay.

There have been numerous accounts of the Obama park rangers blocking access to privately owned lands. You can blow this BS all you want, but you know exactly what Obama is doing. He is using his position to personally go after Americans. When Dr. Ben Carson spoke before Obama and slammed Obamacare, it was not going to go unpunished. Immediately after his attack on Obama, he was visited by the IRS. You do as Obama wants, or you face his gestapo. This is an abuse of power.

What’s the matter Warren, you don’t have anything to say about the separation of church and state? Nothing to say about Obama blocking the 1st Amendment rights of the military? Whether preachers/priests are being paid or not; most dedicate their lives to the religious needs of people. These priests were going to conduct Mass, conduct marriages, baptize babies…for free…and not on salary. But Obama has chosen to block them. For what reason? You better wake up young man; this man is a socialist and wants to destroy America.

The left wants to whine and cry about the Conservatives wanting to repeal or cut funding to Obamacare. Obamacare is a socialist plan to place all Americans on a single payer government HC system. It is socialism and I hope they stick to their guns and destroy obamacare.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 12:55 PM
Comment #372161

The insanity continues:

blockquote>Insane: Barack Obama’s Park Service OKs Amnesty Rally on Shut Down Capitol Hill:

The Obama administration will allow “Camino Americano: March for Immigration Reform” to community organize on federal property, despite the 13% government shutdown. The Washington Examiner confirmed the report with Susana Flores, who is leading the rally Tuesday.

About 30 members of Congress are expected to attend, including Democrats like Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Bob Menendez of New Jersey. It is unclear if the shamnesty twins Senator McCain and Lyndsey Graham are scheduled to attend.

At the very least, the GOP should point out the inexcusable hypocrisy of allowing radical groups to organize for future Democrat voters on federal land, while “Barrycading” and turning away veterans and citizens from self-funded, privately owned and charity-run National Parks.

Our extremely divisive President apparently has a problem with nonagenarian WW2 veterans who risked their lives to defeat Nazism and the Japanese visiting their privately funded, 24-hour, open air National Memorial, but his Park Service will rubber stamp an amnesty rally for illegal immigrants on the National Mall.


Okay Warren; let’s see you defend this move. Was it cheaper to allow this group to protest on the National Mall, than to not allow them?

Check out their sign;

Give us Free…Healthcare, Houses, No Taxes, House, Food…You Owe us America…We Will Shoot more Police in Arizona until we get Free

You support this too Warren? At what point does your side cross the line?

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/84997-barrack-obamas-park-service-oks-amnesty-rally-shut-national-mall/

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 1:13 PM
Comment #372162

It couldn’t get any more bizarre if it were a movie produced by Hollywood:

Homeland Security advisor admits radical Islamic ties

Nothing good can ever come from having the proverbial fox guarding the henhouse.

But so it goes with Mohamed Elibiary, the self-described Muslim Brotherhood supporter recently promoted to a senior advisory position within the Department of Homeland Security.

The Washington-based, national security think tank, Center for Security Policy, published a disturbing 33-page report based on a series of interviews with Elibiary about his admitted ties to a man who raised funds for Hamas and “other radical Islamist causes,” all while serving and advising the Obama administration.

Judicial Watch reported on the findings, noting that Elibiary “has regular access to classified information and is a prime mover behind two of the Obama administration’s most dangerous policies; normalizing relations with domestic and foreign Islamist groups (including the Muslim Brotherhood) and arduous enforcement restrictions of laws related to material support for terrorism.

The report gives the following sampling on Elibiary who:

Began as a teenager a tight friendship with a self-described Islamist named Shukri Abu Baker, who later was convicted of financing Hamas through his US Muslim Brotherhood entity, the Holy Land Foundation;

Donated to the Holy Land Foundation monthly since his first encounter with Baker until the Foundation was shut down by the US government;

Defends the innocence of this Hamas financier and depicts his prosecution as a case of political persecution;

Opposes the largest terrorism-financing prosecution in US history and the overall targeting of the US Muslim Brotherhood network;

Admits knowing the Muslim Brotherhood “social network” (as he calls it) in a “much more personal manner than the Average White Guy…”

Supports a partnership with Islamists, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood, in the US and abroad.

“I simply find it counterproductive to American national security interests to treat the Muslim Brotherhood like the mafia, Nazi party, fascists, communists or any other entity we politically ostracize,” Elbiary said, according to the report. “[Muslim Brotherhood members] naturally exist everywhere at this point, but that’s not a problem in and of itself because there have been MB members inside the US abiding by the law for a very long time.”

According to Judicial Watch, who noted the report’s information that Elibiary has ties to a U.S. Islamic group that promotes Sharia “as the only legitimate law according to Islam:”

blockquote>As troubling as this may seem, Elibiary wields tremendous power in national security issues, promoting a narrative that the Muslim brotherhood and other Islamists are moderates. He has also worked to purge even the most basic information about the doctrinal drivers of terrorism from U.S. government training materials. The root cause of terrorism and Islamic extremism is not the Islamist ideology but legitimate gripes against Western policy, Elibiary insists in the interview.

When former Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced Elibiary’s DHS appointment in 2010 Judicial Watch reported that he was a backer of the Ayatollah Khomeini and a well-known Egyptian jihadist named Sayyid Qutb. In fact, Elibiary participated in a tribute to Khomeini, the ruthless Iranian revolutionary whose teachings continue to govern Middle Eastern terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda. Last year JW reported that Elibiary leaked classified documents to a media outlet that had declined to do a story supposedly exposing DHS’s promotion of “Islamophobia.”

Are we really to feel comfortable that the homeland is secure with Obama administration advisors like this in our midst?

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/10/07/homeland-security-advisor-admits-radical-islamic-ties-84853

If it weren’t for groups like Judicial Watch, the American people would never know what the CWCH is doing. We certainly can’t count on the liberal press to do their job. Don’t the press understand that when a country becomes Communist/Fascist, the first thing to go is a free press and freedom of speech.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 1:27 PM
Comment #372163

And when all else fails; you can always fall back on the liberal tried and true lie of scaring seniors by telling them their SS checks will not be sent out. Is there no depth this lying POS won’t go to:

President Obama is needlessly scaring seniors by suggesting that their Social Security benefit checks may not arrive on time if the U.S. runs out of borrowing authority at the debt limit. The 57 million Americans who receive Social Security benefits should know that their benefits will not be affected—unless President Obama and the Treasury deliberately choose not to pay them.
Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 1:36 PM
Comment #372166

Well, in that case PH, go ahead and list who would be ok with not being paid.

Posted by: phx8 at October 8, 2013 3:03 PM
Comment #372167

Political Hostage,

I’m not going to muddle with every conspiracy dreamed up by weird right wing blogs. I’m starting a new job later this month and I really have better things to with mytime. You need to quit complaining and own the government shutdown that is a result of your political philosophy, not mine. This is a government shutdown, not a government slimdown. Obama’s not going to work overtime to fix the mess that you’ve caused. And you claim to be in favor of personal responsibility? Good grief!

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 8, 2013 3:04 PM
Comment #372172

Well I’m glad you are starting a new job. Perhaps when you start rubbing elbows with the working class of Americans and you see the Government stealing a good portion of your hard earned money and then squander it away, you will begin to understand conservatives. That is, unless your new job is for the government, in which case you will be just another slug on society.

Rather than deal with the truth of issues, you just use the old liberal attack the source and not deal with the content.

The government shutdown is the result of a president who has handed the reigns over to Harry Reid, rather than deals with them himself. Unless you can show me where the House has no right to control the funds going to the government; unless you can show me where the House does not have the right to defund a bad law, and unless you can show me in the Constitution where it is the Senate and not the House that controls spending; then you have no right to say the Republicans have shut anything down. The shutdown is a direct result of a spoiled little boy president and an arrogant bastard running the Senate. The House has done their job and Obama/Senate are AOL. Warren, you can’t quite understand this can you? The conservatives ARE taking responsibility and doing what we sent them to congress to do. Your idea of doing their job is for us to vote them in office, send them to DC, and then vote with the socialists. That ain’t gonna happen.

phx8, if you had read the articles, you would know the Priests were willing to do their job without pay.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 4:14 PM
Comment #372173

Come on Warren,
1 - It’s only a partial shutdown.
2 - A good leader would be working triple time to fix ANY mess that the country finds itself in.

Posted by: kctim at October 8, 2013 4:17 PM
Comment #372174

Obama is highly pissed off that he had to send the other idiot (John Kerry) to Asia in his place. He’s probably catching hell from Michelle my Bell for ruining another first lady/presidential vacation to an area where the accolades are heaped upon them. All he can do now is play golf on the Camp David course, where for some reason the shutdown didn’t affect employees; while his right hand man (Harry Reid) continues to hold the congress hostage. No one ever accused him of being a good leader. It’s a shame he don’t put half the effort into being president as he did being a Chicago thug Community Organizer.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 4:41 PM
Comment #372177

Obama’s not going to work overtime to fix the mess that you’ve caused. And you claim to be in favor of personal responsibility? Good grief!
Posted by: Warren Porter at October 8, 2013 3:04 PM

Good Grief Warren. It is shameful that a grown man with a brain could write such a sentence.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 8, 2013 5:05 PM
Comment #372178

It’s not a “sentence”, it’s “nonsense”; but what do you expect from a kid who has spent most of his life in a classroom having his head filled full of mush?

But now comes the real test; he gets a job and pays his way and half a dozen loafers.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 5:14 PM
Comment #372185

PH,

Perhaps when you start rubbing elbows with the working class of Americans and you see the Government stealing a good portion of your hard earned money.

I’ve already paid plenty of taxes on wages I earned at several of my previous jobs. I am proud to actually be one of the people who pulls the wagon, unlike conservative Watchblogers, who mostly are retired and don’t work.

unless your new job is for the government, in which case you will be just another slug on society.
So those priests who officiated mass on military bases are slugs? Our uniformed men & women are slugs? The professional meteorologists who accurately pinpointed every risk from TS Karen are slugs? The Park rangers who valiantly come to work to protect our nation’s monuments from being stampeded upon by your ilk are slugs? Good grief indeed!
unless you can show me where the House does not have the right to defund a bad law
Just because the House can do something doesn’t mean they should. Pelosi and the Democrats could have forced Bush to withdraw from Iraq in 2007 if they wanted to, but they decided to be grownups and defer to the President. With every right comes responsibility: The House chose to exercise its right to throw a temper-tantrum; now it is time for them to own the consequences of that decision. So quit whining about all of those precious government services that you are forced to do without now that you’ve shut down all discretionary spending over the PPACA.
head filled full of mush
If Applied Mathematics & Physics are mush then God help you.
he gets a job and pays his way and half a dozen loafers.

I pay for a functional government; that means governmental employees that provide valuable services that cannot be done by the private sector. I guess there are retired Watchblog conservatives who loaf around and collect SS benefits, but I can tolerate a few such scallywags.

kctim,

It’s only a partial shutdown.
No, it’s a complete shutdown of all non-essential government services funded through discretionary spending. All of that baloney regarding a “slimdown” is just that, baloney.

A good leader would be working triple time to fix ANY mess that the country finds itself in.
Easing the pain of a shutdown won’t fix the mess. The only way to fix the mess is to appropriate money to fund the government. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 8, 2013 7:35 PM
Comment #372192
I pay for a functional government; that means governmental employees that provide valuable services that cannot be done by the private sector. I guess there are retired Watchblog conservatives who loaf around and collect SS benefits, but I can tolerate a few such scallywags.

There is NOTHING done by governmental employees, that cannot be done better and less expensive by the private sector.

I have been retired for several years, but I draw no SS. I provided my own retirement by being very successful in business. Thank you very much.

If Applied Mathematics & Physics are mush then God help you.

I honestly doubt that Applied Mathematics and Physics were the only courses you took. It was all the other liberal arts classes that created the mush. Your views of how America should be governed proves that mush exists.

I’ve already paid plenty of taxes on wages I earned at several of my previous jobs.

No you haven’t…you have to earn money to pay taxes and I guarantee your jobs have not paid enough to actually pay federal taxes.

So those priests who officiated mass on military bases are slugs? Our uniformed men & women are slugs? The professional meteorologists who accurately pinpointed every risk from TS Karen are slugs? The Park rangers who valiantly come to work to protect our nation’s monuments from being stampeded upon by your ilk are slugs?

Nice try silly boy, but you know perfectly well who the slugs are.


Posted by: Political Hostage at October 8, 2013 9:58 PM
Comment #372196
I have been retired for several years

So you are no longer a taxpayer pulling the cart, but rather a consumer who rides upon it. And please don’t peddle me any BS that you don’t consume government services. Maybe you feel entitled to freeload nowadays because you contributed in the past and you are probably right, but it still means that you are riding in the cart today rather than pulling it.

There is NOTHING done by governmental employees, that cannot be done better and less expensive by the private sector.

National defense is better done by the private sector than the public sector? Law enforcement and our justice system are better done by the private sector than the public sector? Should we privatize our roads too? I don’t think so. Medicare outperforms every private insurer. NOAA’s weather forecasts are vastly superior to anything the private sector can dream up. Face it; there are plenty of areas where the government solution is the best solution (this is the point of many of Stephen’s recent essays).

It was all the other liberal arts classes that created the mush.
I was in an applied degree program, not a liberal arts one. I did take an economics course taught by the grandson of Vice President Charles Dawes, I guess I learned a lot mush regarding the virtues of the Coolidge/Dawes administration.
No you haven’t…you have to earn money to pay taxes and I guarantee your jobs have not paid enough to actually pay federal taxes.
I paid taxes in 2011.
you know perfectly well who the slugs are.
So they aren’t the government employees who serve this nation? I’m glad to hear that. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 1:11 AM
Comment #372197

Well, I’ll tell you something pup, I earned more money and paid more taxes than you will ever see. I draw no government income and I use no government insurance. I live a comfortable life off investments. The businesses I started are still pulling the cart. I have what you will never have, simply because the ideology of the left will never allow you to have it.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 9, 2013 1:42 AM
Comment #372199

Political & Warren

We don’t need to get personal about these insults. I enjoy a little banter, but the attacks need not be the subject of the whole post.

The fact that both of you take the time to write here indicates that you care about the future of our county.

Re government - an efficient government is a necessary condition for the development and maintenance of a free market. All conservatives from Adam Smith and Edmund Burke to Hayek and Friedman have recognized this. There are some things government MUST do; some things it may do, some it should not do and some it really cannot do.

IMO - our government has expanded too far into the things it should not do and is even trying some things that it cannot do. This is at best an expensive failure and more likely dangerous to life and liberty.

The social welfare experiment of the 1960s and 1970s is a good example. Welfare actually worsened the condition of many of the poor and helped create a violent underclass. Despite a higher material standard of living, life in inner cities was worse in 1975 than it had been in 1955 and is arguably still worse today. Being poor is bad; being poor and subject to violence and drug gangs is worse. That is not an argument to “go back” to 1955, but it is a caution that piling on programs may not be the best way to go. We need to work on systemic solutions, that involve government but account for human nature.

That is why the welfare reform of the 1990s, which was attacked so strenuously by liberals, was actually the best medicine for the poor since the middle of the 1960s.

Warren

Re Coolidge - He did a good job. Sometimes doing less produces better results. Many people blame him for the Depression that happened after he left office, but since nobody is really sure what caused the Depression and it was only WWII that got us out of it, i.e. the New Deal did not work economically, I think that blaming Coolidge misses the mark.

I just finished an interesting book called “Rendezvous with Destiny” re Roosevelt and his envoys. It talks about Wendel Wilke, who ran against Roosevelt in 1940. It is interesting to speculate re alternatives. If Roosevelt had lost in 1940, we still probably would have been dragged into the war and won. Wilke and Roosevelt had similar ideas about that and Roosevelt send Wilke as an envoy to UK after he won the election. But in 1940, Roosevelt was not a success economically. The war and that recovery saved his reputation. Had he chosen not to run in 1940 or been defeated, the statism we have seen would not have happened.

Interesting to think about, no practical value.

Posted by: CJ at October 9, 2013 6:12 AM
Comment #372201

Warren

Only a few government services are shutdown, not all. Trying to break it down into little groups only to support a partisan point is silly.
That’s like saying your car doesn’t run because you don’t turn on the AC.

The “pain” is part of the mess and any good leader would be able to put aside partisan ideology to alleviate it as much as possible, not encourage it.
There is a workable medium, but the President would rather score political points than seek it.

Posted by: kctim at October 9, 2013 9:25 AM
Comment #372202

Hostage
Thanks for giving credence to the old adage “there’s no fool like an old fool”. Your charm, wit and way with people certainly seem to have convinced Warren they he wants nothing to do with your ‘beliefs’. By the way this is the second or third time I have seen you state “you will never have what I have” to a commenter on this blog. Did it ever occur to you no one wants what you have? You seem to hold a genuine dislike of anything that you associate with a liberal or progressive thought process but give no reason other than it’s wrong because I don’t like it and you will have to think it is wrong too because I say so. I have met many bosses, supervisors and people in a position of power over others that hold that same attitude. It is disgusting and denigrates your fellow man/woman without serving any purpose to you other than you patting yourself on your back constantly.

Warren
Good luck on the new job.

Posted by: Speak4all at October 9, 2013 9:28 AM
Comment #372205

C&J,

There are some things government MUST do; some things it may do, some it should not do and some it really cannot do.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Government has an important role to play in order to lay down the rules and which the markets must operate. However, operational nuances of the economy are best left to the free market. That is the essence of modern Liberalism.

Regarding welfare: I have never denied that the Great Society was ill-thought in many ways, nor have I ever advocated doing away with the Clinton-Gingrich reforms of the 1990s.

Re Coolidge - He did a good job. Sometimes doing less produces better results. Many people blame him for the Depression that happened after he left office, but since nobody is really sure what caused the Depression and it was only WWII that got us out of it, i.e. the New Deal did not work economically, I think that blaming Coolidge misses the mark.
I used the word mush in jest. I actually really enjoyed my economics course. I’ve got no grudge with Coolidge. Professor Dawes was so modest about this relationship. I think we were 10 weeks through the semester before he started telling us anecdotes regarding his grandfather. I really valued learning how the Dawes Plan influenced interbellum German economy.

Speak4all,

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I have too many successful offline role models to be fazed by PH’s pessimism. The best thing about getting hired won’t be the money I’ll make, but the things that I will be doing.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 11:01 AM
Comment #372206

You do realize that if you support an occupation of such sites, you’re in fact validating the OWS’s approach by your logic. Correct?

Invading these monuments will probably just prove the wisdom of having locked people out of them in the first place. The point is to keep people out of sites that cannot be effectively policed and maintained, since the people who would do so are furloughed.

As for piecemeal bills to put these parts of the government back in action?

That makes me laugh. Good sign that Republicans are feeling the political pressure from this shutdown. Not something you folks planned on, but when your party’s central movement is guided by people who consistently overestimate their public support, these things will happen.

The irony will be, this will probably cost the economy and the taxpayer much more than simply negotiating in good faith under normal circumstances would.

All so some of your worst idiots can get their anti-ACA jones on. You’ve indulged them at the cost of your momentum towards the 2014 election, and whatever the resolution, we’re going to hold this dysfunction against the GOP.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 9, 2013 11:17 AM
Comment #372234

Speak4nobody; is it because I am a successful black man that you attack me? Perhaps you are being racist.

If I were a successful liberal black man, you would have no problem with what I say, but since I’m conservative, you make racist attacks.

Re/being successful; Warren Porter has three possible scenarios as a liberal. He can be on the government payroll, he can work for someone else, or he can go in business for himself. Going into business for yourself is the most likely to make a person successful. But therein lies the problem; if a person is a liberal when they start a business, they won’t stay liberal. They will realize the goal of Democrats in government is to cause as much red tape as possible and then to steal as much of your earnings as possible.

I started businesses at a time when there was far less government interference, hence, I was successful. It is for this reason I will tell Warren Porter, Speak4yourself, or Stephen Daugherty, you will never be as successful as me.

I might also add that it was Warren Porter who made the assumption that I was on the government dole, which I am not.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 9, 2013 5:08 PM
Comment #372239
if a person is a liberal when they start a business, they won’t stay liberal.

There are plenty of liberal business owners, your arguments are nothing but a load of crock.

Going into business for yourself is the most likely to make a person successful.

This is only true if money is the only metric of success. Speak4all is right, there’s nothing that you have that I want. You live such a materialistic lifestyle that you have lost your humanity, to that I say no thank you.

I value other things including doing my best to be a good citizen and make this world a better place. I only need a job to enable me to pay my fair share of the nation’s debts and to put food on the table and a roof over my head. Anything I earn beyond beyond that is just a bonus. I probably could have had my tax money refunded in 2011, but I decided not to do so because I felt great pleasure to actually pull the cart rather than freeload like you.

Believe me, if you aren’t working and paying taxes then you are freeloading; there’s no other way to describe it unless you’ve wandered off into the mountains to live like Ted Kaczynski. You are still consuming government services, but you aren’t paying for them. You are certainly entitled to freeload, after all it is an entitlement we grant our elders in respect for all the hard work they did when they were younger. You really should be proud that your hard work has earned you the ability to freeload, I don’t understand why you get offend so much when I point this out. I was a proud freeloader myself for the first 15 years of my life.

it was Warren Porter who made the assumption that I was on the government dole, which I am not.
What I actually wrote was: “unlike conservative Watchblogers, who mostly are retired and don’t work.” There were no specific references to you, so you really didn’t have to get offended. I believe KAP, Royal Flush, Tom Humes and other conservative WatchBloggers have repeatedly said that they utilize social security to support themselves. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 6:13 PM
Comment #372241

Warren Porter, you continue to make assumptions: that I am not paying taxes and that I am freeloading, and that I am living in the mountains. You are wrong on all counts. I spend the winters in a home I own in Florida, and the summers in a home I own in South Carolina. I also pay taxes on my investments. I draw nothing from the government.

Regarding materialistic lifestyle; perhaps you could explain why the goal of the left is the redistribution of wealth? That means to take from those who work and give to those who won’t work. If all a person needs is a roof over their head and food on the table, then this is just what Obama has given them…welfare check, ghetto housing, cell phones, and food stamps. What more do they need…right? Warren, you honestly appear to be the perfect young person; no goals to get rich and working only to help others…right. So you are a 99 percenter, with no goals of becoming a 1 percenter.

Regarding a liberal owning a business; come back in a few years after you have successfully started a business and talk to me then. Until then, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 9, 2013 6:44 PM
Comment #372247

I believe KAP, Royal Flush, Tom Humes and other conservative WatchBloggers have repeatedly said that they utilize social security to support themselves. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 6:13 PM

Yes, I do collect Social Security benefits. Because of the generosity of liberal politicians I have already received more than I paid into the program. I am not complaining about your generosity…I just don’t understand your logic. Don’t you young people want some benefit when you retire? That won’t happen the way SS is now structured.

Warren, there really is no nice way to say this. You are an ideologue. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. But you should expect reality to burst your bubble at some point in your life. In my opinion, the sooner the better for you.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 9, 2013 7:31 PM
Comment #372249
you continue to make assumptions: that I am not paying taxes and that I am freeloading, and that I am living in the mountains.

Apparently you cannot understand what I have written.

I also pay taxes on my investments.

But these are capital gains taxes, not income taxes. You are one of Mitt Romney’s infamous 47% of Americans who don’t pay income taxes.

the goal of the left is the redistribution of wealth
Redistribution is not the primary goal of the Left. The primary goal of the Left is safeguarding the rights & liberties of every American.
come back in a few years after you have successfully started a business and talk to me then
Sorry, but I’m not the only liberal in the world. There are plenty of other ones who start and run businesses of their own without any difficulties. You claim an absolutist incompatibility between liberalism and owning a business and it simply isn’t true. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 7:57 PM
Comment #372250
Yes, I do collect Social Security benefits. Because of the generosity of liberal politicians I have already received more than I paid into the program. I am not complaining about your generosity…I just don’t understand your logic. Don’t you young people want some benefit when you retire? That won’t happen the way SS is now structured.

Thank you for your input. I have no complaints regarding your utilization of Social Security. My grandparents did the same and within a decade, so will my parents.

Would I like a benefit when I retire? Sure, but at this point I’m not expecting anything. If I ever do receive something, I’ll be pleasantly surprised. In the meantime, I plan to fund my retirement on my own.

You are an ideologue.
No offense taken; you are exactly right. Because I have few life experiences on which to base my opinion, I must rely on what I read or what others tell me. I am certain that I’ll learn more nuances regarding the world as I mature, but I must begin my journey as an idealist. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 9, 2013 8:12 PM
Comment #372258

CJ, Political Hostage, et al., are correct:

Obama and those who are taking his lead are Not “standing down.” They are making matters worse. And for the worst possible motive — assert pain, frustration and inconvenience on the American people in the name of politics. It’s sickening!

Case in point: A man in nearby Valley Forge Park in King of Prussia, PA was arrested and ticketed Sunday for jogging throughout the vast, expansive roads and trails of the park.

He returned to his parked car in a private lot and his vehicle was surrounded by two park rangers with flashing lights.

They cited him with a $110 ticket for running in a closed park. The park only has a visitors center (it’s a free park). The rangers told the man, “don’t you watch the news?” The man replied, “sometimes, when I’m not too busy.” Then the man pointed to the dozens of “other” citizens out for a walk, jog or breath of fresh air in eyesight and the rangers stated that they would be “getting as many of those people too.”

True story.

Obama’s marching orders, much like his tacit marching orders given to the IRS, on this matter shows how petulant and punitive he can be. Fortunately, this tactic is backfiring enormously!

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 9, 2013 10:05 PM
Comment #372260

“Yes, I do collect Social Security benefits. Because of the generosity of liberal politicians I have already received more than I paid into the program.”

Royal Flush,

That may have been true in the past but it is not true for the baby boomers who will actually get less than they put in. Remember, the baby boomers self funded huge trust accounts to manage their retirements. Those trust accounts alter the normal pay go system of SS.

Posted by: Rich at October 10, 2013 9:00 AM
Comment #372263

Kevin L. Lagola-
You’ve tried to kill Obamacare almost 40 times. You’re so ticked that we haven’t just rolled over and killed our signature first term political achievement, that you decide it’s worth putting the nation’s economy at risk, even at risk of a default, in order to get what you want.

It’s almost funny the way people like you are scrambling to try to blame the pain of what you’ve done on Obama, to credit it to petulance and mean-spiritedness, rather than the fact you are holding our nation’s functional policy hostage to getting what you want, and what you can’t get without resorting to this kind of extortion.

I mean, why would you shutdown the government anyway, if you weren’t sure that it would cause pain that would make your opponent unpopular? The whole point is that you’re hurting the American people and threatening economic collapse in order to scare and shame Obama into doing what you want. Otherwise the tactic would be of no value.

You did this. Man up and own up to it. Own up to how crass and craven your party’s politics have become, and maybe you’ll have the sense to stop doing the things that undermine the sympathetic picture of your party.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 10, 2013 11:26 AM
Comment #372266

Daugherty wrote; ” Own up to how crass and craven your party’s politics have become…”

That’s a load of BS. It took the conspiracy of members in both parties to reach a $17 Trillion debt and nothing but CR’s to run the government.

The R party finally has enough elected Conservative members to attempt a change to stem the tide of tax and spend members who have ruled our country for decades.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 10, 2013 4:26 PM
Comment #372271

Stephen Daugherty and the rest of the liberals on WB are trying their best to parrot the talking points of Obama. That Republicans are at fault for the shutdown and that Obama is doing his best to negotiate a remedy. Of course, we know that Obama and his liberals are getting exactly what they want…a shutdown. BUT, in this day of new sources other than the big 3 MSM; it is backfiring on Obama. His approval has dropped to 37%, and recent questions asked of students of one of the most liberal schools in America, the University of Colorado, sheds some interesting truth of who’s at fault for the shutdown.

Is it possible that the little heads full of mush are beginning to comprehend?

What is the foundation belief of the left…Oh yes, I remember…”Never waste a crisis”. Obama has taken the shutdown, which is not really a shutdown, and he has used his power to create a monster that tries to make the America people suffer as much as possible. I notice the left has completely ignored the comment made by the Park Ranger to the Washington Post, that he was told “to make life as difficult as possible for Americans”.

Warren Porter; perhaps I should hire you as my accountant, since I am still paying Federal Income Tax with my current accountant. Evidently you are much smarter the he, because I would like to be able to not send money to the IRS.

Stephen Daugherty cannot comprehend that American’s don’t like or want obamacare. It does not compute in his Obama worshipping brain.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 10, 2013 7:36 PM
Comment #372297

Political Hostage,

My goodness! You are certainly grasping for straws now. Citing anecdotal evidence concocted by a conservative student organization, do you seriously think that is going to be believable?

His approval has dropped to 37%
Which is more than 3x greater than Congress’ approval rating. Ouch!
Warren Porter; perhaps I should hire you as my accountant, since I am still paying Federal Income Tax with my current accountant. Evidently you are much smarter the he, because I would like to be able to not send money to the IRS.
Sorry, but I’m already taken. So I guess the reality is that instead of actually being a parasite you simply aspire to be one. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 1:27 PM
Comment #372298

I hope all this shutdown is going to do is show the American People how they don’t really need the federal government to maintain every aspect of their lives. In respects to the national parks, they are located in states. The states they are located in have taken up the costs associated with them to keep them open. No federal involvement needed. Soon people in head start will realize their children will be better off being home schooled. They will realize it doesn’t take 2 people with BA’s degree to teach a 4 year old some manners or the alphabet. Even death benefits to our fallen’s families are being paid by charitable institutions. This is over the top. The military should pay these benefits, but it demonstrates how the federal government isn’t needed again. If the people understood the constitution and adhered to it the federal government would be shut down for most of the year as a matter of SOP.

I don’t understand why people are missing the “NON-ESSENTIAL” part of this? Do they realize what NON-ESSENTIAL means? Is a free babysitter essential? Are people going to die if they don’t send their kid to head-start. Are national parks essential? Are they going to pass away if they don’t go see a rock? How many national monuments do the people in Ethiopia need to stay alive? See what I mean about NON-ESSENTIAL now?

We should start putting things in perspective, people. Convience and leisure are not rights. This shutdown is only a demonstration of the extravagance our federal government forces us to pay for.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 11, 2013 1:54 PM
Comment #372303


States step up to fill federal government void

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 11, 2013 2:29 PM
Comment #372310

Warren writes; “His (obama’s) approval has dropped to 37%

Which is more than 3x greater than Congress’ approval rating. Ouch!

It tickles me to hear folks on WB talk about congressional popularity polls. They are meaningless and the proof is how many incumbents are reelected every election cycle.

These polls are measuring the individual popularity of 465 political critters. I might love my congressperson and senators while thinking the other 462 are just terrible. If I were polled, the congressional rating would be 0.645% approval.

The president on the other hand is just ONE person and polling measures just his popularity…and no one else.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 11, 2013 3:51 PM
Comment #372319

Obama isn’t even running for reelection so his numbers are even more meaningless.

Nevertheless, Congress’ approval did drop in 2010 before the Tea Party wave, so one should definitely consider the possibility that the reverse may happen in 2014 if the GOP doesn’t reform itself anytime soon.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 4:53 PM
Comment #372322

Warren, 37% approval is dismal even though he can’t run again. Why is the MSM so silent about it, when Bush 43 got a 37% approval the MSM went nuts about it.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 5:07 PM
Comment #372328

Warren writes; “Obama isn’t even running for reelection so his numbers are even more meaningless.”

Oh Warren…how you deceive yourself to avoid reality. Correct me if I am wrong, but the polling we’re discussing is not a popularity poll, but rather…a poll to determine the job performance.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 11, 2013 5:17 PM
Comment #372343

KAP,

Congress’ approval in 2007 was much greater than it is today, that’s why the MSM focused on Bush instead of Congress. Today, Congress’ approval is lower than the Mariana Trench, which is why they garner the attention they get. When Boehner’s approval exceeds Pelosi’s approval, then we can talk.

Royal Flush,

the polling we’re discussing is not a popularity poll, but rather…a poll to determine the job performance.

Then why does Political Hostage use the poll to indicate Obama’s declining popularity? To be fair, this is the danger of hedging so much of one’s argument on an opinion poll when people’s opinions and attitudes can change frequently and often. For instance, the recent HART RESEARCH ASSOCIATES/PUBLIC OPINION STRATEGIES poll has Obama’s approval rating at 47%. Congressional Republicans are stuck at 24%, whereas Congressional Democrats fare a bit better at 36%.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 6:30 PM
Comment #372355

If the House Republicans are at 24% and Dems at 36%, it only proves that Republicans are more capable of individual thought than Democrats. Polls for years have shown 1/3 Republican, 1/3 Democrat, and 1/3 independent. Since it can be presumed that Democrats will always support their own politicians, the 36% approval just shows that Democrats can’t think for themselves and tow the party line. One would think that Republicans would enjoy the same approximate 33%; but Republicans are much more independent and do not support everything the Republicans do. Independent voters are a whole different breed of voter and have increasingly moved away from Democrat politicians. The low approval of Republicans can be placed at the feet of TP Republicans who see weakness in the RP. I find nothing odd about these polls. IMHO, if the Republican Party moved further to the conservative right, they would enjoy a significant jump in the polls.

Sorry, but I’m already taken. So I guess the reality is that instead of actually being a parasite you simply aspire to be one. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 1:27 PM

Warren, you used to be a nice young man; but you have succumbed to the nastiness and personal attacks of your party. That’s a real shame. You have no respect for your elders, do you?

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 11, 2013 8:04 PM
Comment #372363

Warren, Congress for the last decade or 2 has always had a dismal approval. But the MSM has always been hostile to republicans and candy coats democrats screw ups. So lets be real about it, the MSM God forbid should talk down Obama.

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 10:06 PM
Comment #372365
You have no respect for your elders, do you?

I respect hard work and perseverance, not crass name-calling or your condescending attitude toward my young age. You need to get off of your high horse; no one is a fully self-made man. You have benefited from a plethora of government programs, yet you are completely thankless. You own property in hurricane prone areas and I am sure you utilize the National Hurricane Center’s forecasts whenever danger approaches. It is very likely you received a government-funded education when you were younger. You probably utilize government subsidized transportation on a regular basis. The list goes on and on. Show an ounce of humility for a change and you will regain my respect.

I admit that it wasn’t very nice of me to accuse you of parasitic aspirations. Apparently you have had a very fortunate business career, and I’m sure you worked hard to make that possible. However, you have repeatedly made fallacious assumptions regarding my background and upbringing. My politics are not the the result of my university education; if you must blame a culprit, then blame my father. He has had a long successful career as an electrical engineer; however, his politics are very far left and I probably started listening to his rants before I was even born. I’m not surprised my father’s politics are the way they are. Both of his parents were solid members of the New Deal coalition. Another huge influence on my politics has been my relationships with my maternal great-aunts and great-uncles, all of whom are well into their 90s. All of them are Jewish refugees who narrowly escaped the Holocaust in Europe.

I don’t know how long you have read my writings here. But I hope you understand that although I actually empathize greatly with conservative complaints regarding our welfare state. I regard any able-bodied person who submits to government support rather than earning his own way as cowardly parasite. I paid income taxes in 2011, and it looks like I will start paying them again this year. I certainly want to minimize the proportion of my tax money that goes to these sorts of people. However, I am also realistic on this issue. If one or two scumbags manage to cheat the system, but most beneficiaries are honest people who only utilize my money temporarily before rejoining the labor force, then I will understand.

If a conservative is unwilling to tolerate such a situation, then they have the right to hold that opinion. In fact, I am glad that such people exist. It helps keep the rest of us in check and prevents the waste & abuse from getting too prevalent.

So what do you say? I promise not to cudgel you regarding your status as a non-worker and you won’t lambaste my opinions as simply the repetition of something I learned from some university professor. And please drop the generational condescension. Deal?

BTW, if my youthful naivete every shines through, feel free to knock me down; just drop the silly assertion regarding university mush. Right now, I am an idealistic ideologue, and I fully expect my opinions to change as I begin to settle down with my “real life”. I lack the anecdotes and life experiences that my elders have acquired, but I still feel compelled to put my opinions out there in order to test their resilience, which is why I share my opinions in spite of my ignorance.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 10:12 PM
Comment #372367

Rich KAPitan,

Congress for the last decade or 2 has always had a dismal approval

But today’s Congress’ approval is completely unprecedented. That’s why it is newsworthy.

Also, Congress is newsworthy because they are currently flexing their muscles to give Obama and the Democrats a hard time. Imagine if the 110th Congress refused to raise the debt ceiling in 2007 unless Bush agreed to repeal his tax cuts, such a scenario would have taken the heat of Bush and onto Congress. Compared to the activism in the 113th congress, the 110th was quite languid.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 11, 2013 10:26 PM
Comment #372369

Isn’t that what Democrats did with Bush, Warren??????

Posted by: Rich KAPitan at October 11, 2013 10:36 PM
Comment #372372

The 110th Congress raised the debt ceiling without confrontation. They also never bullied Bush regarding his tax cuts or the war in Iraq even though both were massively unpopular at the time.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 12, 2013 12:09 AM
Comment #372379

WaPo: 4 Pinocchios for Obama claim on debt-ceiling negotiations

In 1973, when Richard Nixon was president, Democrats in the Senate, including Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Sen. Walter Mondale (D-Minn.), sought to attach a campaign finance reform bill to the debt ceiling after the Watergate-era revelations about Nixon’s fundraising during the 1972 election.
Indeed, Linda K. Kowalcky and Lance T. LeLoup wrote in a comprehensive 1993 studyof the politics of the debt limit, for Public Administration Review, that “during this period, the genesis of a pattern developed that would eventually become full blown in the mid-1970s and 1980s: the use of the debt ceiling vote as a vehicle for other legislative matters.”


History started before you were born, Warren Porter.

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 12, 2013 10:20 AM
Comment #372380

Warren Porter…deal. My life experiences have taught me the most racist comments and attacks upon my business achievements have come from the left. I find a natural defense kicking in every time I have to deal with Democrats. I did receive a public education, but my college days were just pre-civil rights days. A time when Democrats did not support blacks going to college; therefore I worked my own way through school. In short I will say it was Democrats and not Republicans who blocked everything I did in life. So I have no love for their ideology. I was old enough to understand that it was Republicans and not Democrats who voted for civil rights. In fact, it was Democrats who filibustered civil rights. And I was old enough to hear and understand LBJ’s comment, after signing civil rights into law; “I’ll have those n*****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” – Lyndon B. Johnson.

As an educated black, I have the ability to think for myself. Obama has promised things he knows he’ll never deliver? Spending and creating more debt than any president before him? Creating more dependency by expanding more welfare, food stamps, etc. and doing it in record numbers? Yes, all of the above and more. Barack Obama was not the best person for the job. He was the best politician on the ballot. Politicians lie to get votes, so Obama wins!

I’m not necessarily a Romney lover, but Mickey Mouse would have done a much better job as president than Obama has/is. There has never been a more arrogant, agenda driven president–and one of the most common traits of presidents is arrogance.

How did LBJ plan on having those n*****s vote Democrat for 200 years? Welfare expansion. Give someone things and they will come back, and back, and back. Tell them they need to vote for you to keep getting the stuff, and they will. Dependence breeds more dependence. Barack Obama uses this same tactic, only on steroids.

LBJ was one of the worst presidents, screaming and threatening people do get his way. His arrogance is surpassed, in my opinion, only by the President Johnson who replaced Lincoln, and the present day Obama. Studying the day of the Johnson presidency after Lincoln gives the true sense of character of the Democrat Party. For that matter, studying the era of the other Johnson president (LBJ) will too. Democrats are just better politicians *read liars*.

I’m sure that you, as a descendent or Jewish origin, watch for signs of the German holocaust to be repeated. What is the old saying about “history repeating itself”? I also look at the history of the treatment of blacks in America and have no trust in a party who plays to our race. 90% of blacks may vote for Democrats, but I’m not part of that 90%.

Although I did find one of your comments interesting, “however, his politics are very far left and I probably started listening to his rants before I was even born.”

Are you saying life begins in the womb?

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 12, 2013 10:22 AM
Comment #372383

WW,

Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Sen. Walter Mondale (D-Minn.), sought to attach a campaign finance reform bill to the debt ceiling

Yet Kennedy and Mondale were unsuccessful. Why? Because, “the lawmakers were criticized by commentators (and fellow lawmakers) for using “shotgun” tactics to try to hitch their pet cause to emergency must-pass legislation.” Does this mean you endorse the notion that republicans ought to be criticized for using “shotgun” tactics to hitch their pet causes to emergency must-pass legislation?

Political Hostage,

Warren Porter…deal.
Great!
In short I will say it was Democrats and not Republicans who blocked everything I did in life. So I have no love for their ideology. I was old enough to understand that it was Republicans and not Democrats who voted for civil rights. In fact, it was Democrats who filibustered civil rights.
You are correct. However, these were conservative Democrats, not liberal ones.
And I was old enough to hear and understand LBJ’s comment, after signing civil rights into law; “I’ll have those n*****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” – Lyndon B. Johnson.
A bit disingenuous to phrase things that way (“I was old enough…”). This quote first appeared in a book published in 1996 by Ronald Kessler; the quote is hearsay. However, I am aware that LBJ had quite a foul mouth and was ill-tempered to boot, so I don’t doubt that Ronald Kessler has done his best to reconstruct the original quote.
How did LBJ plan on having those n*****s vote Democrat for 200 years? Welfare expansion. Give someone things and they will come back, and back, and back. Tell them they need to vote for you to keep getting the stuff, and they will. Dependence breeds more dependence.

What made the Welfare expansion of the 1960s different from earlier expansions like FDR’s New Deal? Haven’t the 1996 reforms to welfare done much to prevent dependency?

Also it is my understanding (I might be wrong here), but I believe a majority of African-American do not receive SNAP or TANF benefits. It is certainly true that African-American families may utilize these programs at a higher rate than White families and a disproportionate number of beneficiaries are African-American. However, there remain many other African-Americans who get by without this sort of assistance.

Are you saying life begins in the womb?
Off topic, so I will be brief: Life worthy of legal protection probably beings in late pregnancy. Perhaps around the 24th week? Posted by: Warren Porter at October 12, 2013 12:51 PM
Comment #372389

This video of the Hannity interview of Tavis Smiley, found at Newsbusters, indicates a truth about the condition of black people under Obama:

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: My last question to you. You often do these seminars with the state of black America. I’ve watched them on C-Span and different channels, right?

TAVIS SMILEY: Right.

HANNITY: Are black Americans better off five years into the Obama presidency?

SMILEY: Let me answer your question very forthrightly. No, they are not. The data is going to indicate sadly that when the Obama administration is over, black people will have lost ground in every single leading economic indicator category. On that regard, the president ought to be held responsible.

Now we can accept Tavis Smiley for what he is, extremely liberal and not happy with what Obama has done to the black population; or we can personally attack Tavis Smiley as a secret conservative, anti-Obama, or not knowing what he is talking about. I go with the former.

If we add to this the fact that almost 1/6th of America is now on food stamps; I don’t believe Obama has done anything for America.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 12, 2013 4:01 PM
Comment #372393

Kevin L. Lagola-
You’ve tried to kill Obamacare almost 40 times. You’re so ticked that we haven’t just rolled over and killed our signature first term political achievement, that you decide it’s worth putting the nation’s economy at risk, even at risk of a default, in order to get what you want.

WTH? “I” tried to kill Obamacare over 40 times? I’m flattered that you think I’m so influential and powerful.

How is a blurb about an innocent man getting a ticket in a park related to putting the nation’s economy at risk?

SD — think before you write and/or ascribe blame to someone without understanding or even comprehending what people actually articulate or write…jeez, dude!

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 12, 2013 7:00 PM
Comment #372394

Warren,

When I was 16 years old, I thought I knew everything; when I was 20, I was even more seasoned; then I hit 25 and boy was I a world beater; at 30, I was married, had been working since age 14 and was even more omniscient than at the age of 25; at 35, I had earned an Master’s of Science degree from Penn — along with my work and life experiences working at a Fortune 3 company, I was light-years away from my precocious late-twenties; at 40, I was in my prime (so I thought); at 45, I got knocked back a rung or two; now, at 48, I’m learning new things every hour, every minute, every day. My point: one has to live, observe, be contrite, listen and learn. Most curious people who are open-minded to new things and new ideas see how naïve they can be over time.

I want the next generation to excel in every way possible! Keep on fighting, but realize that there’s a reason why sage persons are generally chock-full of life experiences — both good and bad. That is how one learns. Otherwise, we’d go insane trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

My humble two cents,

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 12, 2013 7:24 PM
Comment #372439

Follow-up story to comment #372258

Runners protest at Valley Forge

Government shutdown leads to closed trails

Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA — Dozens of people have staged a protest run through Valley Forge National Historical Park after a runner was ticketed amid the govern­ment shutdown.

Since the shutdown closed the popular site near Philadelphia, marathoner John Bell and others have gotten $100 tickets for allegedly violating the closure order, most­ly for parking in the park.

Several running groups took part in what some called a “Patriot Run” to call attention to the shutdown.

“How can you close the outside?” asked runner George Fenzil, 46, of Phila­delphia.

They ran on state and local roads that cut through the national park but remain open and are just a few feet from paved walking paths in the park.

“It’s less safe, people running out on the road, with no shoulder, with traffic coming at 40 miles per hour. We’re liter­ing ally running three feet from the trail that they say we can’t be running on,” said Bell, 56, of Chadds Ford, who plans to fight his Oct. 6 ticket in federal court.

The National Park Service says at least 20 people have been issued tickets at Valley Forge, and more at parks across the country. A spokesman has said that safety is a concern, given wide­spread staff furloughs. The park service has said that a hiker in Acadia National Park was seriously injured after violat­a closure notice.

But Bell doesn’t believe safety is an is­sue at Valley Forge, which has wide paths and gently rolling hills.

“We’ve run in here for years, without ever seeing a park ranger. Anytime there’s been an injury with a runner, the park ranger has never been the one to re­spond,” he said.

Some national parks are reopening with the use of state or other funds. A park service spokesman did not immedi­ately return an email message Sunday.

Lawyer Jeremy Ibrahim, who is rep­resenting Bell in contesting the ticket, helped organize the protest. The runners parked offsite and asked the park super­intendent if they could run on the trails, Ibrahim said. They were told they would not be cited for running, but only for parking, he said. Nonetheless, they took to the roads to make their point about the shutdown.

“All politics aside, I think that they need to get their act together,” Fencil said. “This is not a good thing for our country.”

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at October 14, 2013 2:20 AM
Comment #372454

Hostage
I don’t care if you are black, brown, yellow or any mixture of those colors, please try to comprehend that statement. I attack your comments when they exhibit intolerance and ridicule of another commenter not to mention do not accomplish anything but to display your bias to anyone that disagrees with you. You seem to have tempered that so I guess the old dog can learn new tricks?

As far as your success is concerned you do not seem to be very successful in convincing anyone who disagrees with you that you have any valid beliefs that should be recognized.

How about a liberal that has worked all of his life and had to put up with the constant whining of anyone that disagreed with him that he was wrong and he would learn in his later years that this liberal thought is wrong. Going on 67 and still as liberal as when I was 22, maybe even more so now.

Kevin
So your tea party types hold the country hostage in a government shutdown to try to obliterate the Affordable Care Act and then when the shutdown happens you try to obfuscate your position by pointing a finger and saying “but you wouldn’t negotiate”. Disgusting! Save your outrage for the real problem, the debt default, if your tea party group causes that you will need all of your supposed indignation just to manage the fallout from the economic collapse. Or are you one of those special people that believe defaulting on our debt is a good thing?

Posted by: Speak4all at October 14, 2013 2:14 PM
Comment #372455

This government shutdown of parks and memorials will back fire on Obama. All it took was for employees to say they were told to make American’s lives difficult. As time goes on, more will come out.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 14, 2013 2:18 PM
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