Fair compromises

Great presidents know how work with opponents while keeping what they want. Reasonable compromises would be to postpone the individual mandate for one year, i.e. Obama can do for people what he did unilaterally for big business, make Congress and its employees subject to ObamaCare, a gesture to perceived fairness, and repeal that ridiculous medical devices tax, which penalizes innovation in life sciences.

I am not sure Republicans would accept this, but they should. It leaves ObamaCare intact, but there is no way they can change that anyway, and it helps ordinary Americans, who otherwise are in a jam. W/o the employer mandate, which Obama has given away, individuals are left out in the cold. Employers need not offer to help them; in fact it makes economic, if not ethical, sense to toss as many employees onto the shoals of ObamaCare when they can still get away with it.

The putting Congress under ObamaCare thing is actually a little dumb, but politics is a little dumb. Most people think that they should stick it to Congress. Obama can pose as a man of the people and Congress can take the kick in the ass and pretend they really care. This would satisfy the urge to punish Congress w/o causing too much trouble. And it is a good principle that Congress should be and seem to be subject to the same laws it imposes on the rest of us.

The medical device tax is just stupid. I know I said politics is dumb, but this is stupid even for politics. It essentially punishes innovation that could save both lives and money. The only "benefit" I can see is that it protects established interests in the medical profession and I suppose that it was included in the original bill to buy the acquiescence of this important interest group.

So the way ahead is simple and just, if not easy. I don't think Obama will go for it. He likes the chaos created by these kinds of fights. He can pretend to be an outsider, fighting the man, instead of admitting that he IS the man and has real responsibilities. But maybe I underestimated his morality and courage.

Of course, this assumes Obama is a great president; I have my doubts he is even a good one.

Posted by Christine & John at October 3, 2013 8:16 AM
Comments
Comment #371924

And what exactly would Democrats get in return for any of these concessions?

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 8:50 PM
Comment #371929

Warren

Something that might work.

They pushed ObamaCare through despite the opposition of the other party and the majority of Americans.

These compromises are reasonable and are things that perhaps should be done in any case. Democrats are giving up nothing that they could reasonably hold anyway.

Of course, Obama will be giving up an divisive fight in favor of his country’s good. I doubt if he thinks that tradeoff is good.

Posted by: CJ at October 2, 2013 9:11 PM
Comment #371930

Delaying the ACA is not a reasonable concession. The Democrats have already made concessions with the budget.

Democrats need to hold firm. Let the Republic Party implode and take the blame for any economic hardships. Hold through the debt limit approval as well.

Agree on a budget then fund what you have agreed upon. The President and the Democratic Party have made concession upon concession on programs and funding.

The Republic Party is overreaching. Let them.

Posted by: LibRick at October 2, 2013 9:36 PM
Comment #371933

The law as currently structured will work. Delaying the individual mandate for a year won’t change any of its flaws.

Democrats are giving up nothing that they could reasonably hold anyway

Are you serious??? The PPACA is already settled law, why would Democrats need to negotiate to keep it?

If you want to negotiate, you’ll need to incentivize Democrats with something they’ll value. Maybe a carbon tax or closing some tax loopholes? But a one year delay in Obama’s signature achievement? No way.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 9:42 PM
Comment #371934

Rick

They delay the individual mandate. Obama has already delayed the employer mandate. Why cannot he give the same break to ordinary people that he gave to business?

Warren

let’s see what people think.

Posted by: CJ at October 2, 2013 9:44 PM
Comment #371935

LibRick,
Agreed. The extremists in the House will continue holding the country hostage and threaten to harm the country every few months until their agenda replaces the Democratic agenda, the one that voters supported by a definitive margin in 2012. There is a legislative process, a process of give and take in order to make changes and enact- or repeal- bills. The GOP needs to observe that process.

Like it or not, the GOP extremists have to be faced down sooner or later. No liberal wants this fight, but the fight is upon us. They have already shut down the government. The wish list for raising the debt ceiling and avoiding an economic catastrophe is basically the Romney platform. It is a terrible thing, but there is no reasonable option left. The Tea Party and neo-confederates will destroy this country if given the chance. Now is as good a time as any to take them on.

Posted by: phx8 at October 2, 2013 9:49 PM
Comment #371939

Does the House of Representatives control the purse strings of the government? Secondly, does the House of Representatives have the right to defund ANY law? Is it unconstitutional for the House to defund a law?

Are we better off to have individuals sign up for a HC policy that will fail down the road; or should the individuals have the same right of delay of the mandate that all of Obama’s friends get? What happens to the individuals who sign up and then ACA fails? Obama is the one playing the game; his goal is to sign up as many people as possible to another government handout.

Who are the “extremist in the House”? Are we talking about Congressmen? Who do these extremist congressmen work for…do they work for Harry Reid and the ultra left wing socialists, or do they work for their constituents?

Conservatives scare the hell out of liberals…

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 10:47 PM
Comment #371941

CJ,
The various efforts of the House extremists to ‘reform’ the PPACA are not made in good faith. They are intended to destroy health reform. The employer mandate you refer to affects a relatively small number of people. The individual mandate affects everyone. It is a cornerstone of the reform. Remember, this is the same bunch in the House that voted to repeal health care reform 41 times. They never presented their own alternative because they have none. A few proposals died in committee because Republicans would never use their majority to vote for their own alternatives.

PH,
There is a legislative process that involves the House, Senate, and President. Whether the PPACA proves to be good or bad law is irrelevant. It is the law, and changing it requires going through that legislative process. Right now, the House is trying to destroy our country’s legislative process by shutting down the government unless their agenda is approved.

That is not acceptable. And it gets worse.

The extremists, the radicals, the Tea Party Republicans have made it clear for some time that they intend to threaten the country by refusing to raise the debt ceiling. That would result in a default. No one knows for sure what will happen, but a deep worldwide economic depression is a possibility. More than one member of the Tea Party has made it clear they would be willing to go there.

The Tea Party extremists have to be stopped, and now is the time. A lot of GOP Senators and conservatives and some House members would side with the Democrats and liberals. The extremists have already shut down the government, and they must not be allowed to take the next step. It is not that those GOP Senators and conservatives and Democrats and liberals agree about the PPACA. It is because they respect the country, the government, and the legislative process.

The Tea Party extremists do not. They have made this abundantly clear.

For the good of all Americans, these extremists MUST be defeated.

Posted by: phx8 at October 2, 2013 11:17 PM
Comment #371942

The Republicans fear that Obamacare might actually be successful. After investing so much in demonizing the program, it would be a disaster for them if it actually turned out to be well received by the public. Why else would they be so desperate to stop it? If it is such a sure fire disaster, why not allow it to be exposed as a failure?

Posted by: Rich at October 2, 2013 11:22 PM
Comment #371943

phx8, is it unconstitutional for the House to block funds to any law? Simple enough question. You’re beginning to sound like SD.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 11:57 PM
Comment #371945

PH,
That is not a simple question! The House can block funds for any law, then send the bill to the Senate. The Senate can add blocked funds back in, and return it to the House. The criteria for passage can vary, depending on how the bills were introduced. Basically, if Boehner is not careful, he can accidentally provide the Senate with a partial funding bill that could be returned to the House in the form of a ‘clean’ Continuing Resolution, which would fund the entire budget and end the government shutdown. Hope that makes sense.

When there are differences on House and Senate budgets, the two bodies go to conference. The House passed a budget, and in April, the Senate passed a different budget. The Senate made more than 17 requests to the House to go to conference, negotiate, and resolve the differences. House Republicans refused, ergo, no new budget- just a Continuing Resolution.

Posted by: phx8 at October 3, 2013 12:49 AM
Comment #371947

So let’s see. Obama decides to delay the employer mandate for a year, and allow congressional staffers subsidies( no doubt for political reasons ), but refuses to give the same break to everyone. Let’s also keep in mind he does not have the constitutional authority to unilaterally change a law, that must be done by congress. He must enforce the law as it is written. If he wants to postpone or change any or all parts of that law he will have to get congress to do it. It must be nice to the king.

Posted by: dbs at October 3, 2013 5:30 AM
Comment #371948

phx8

I am glad that Obama chose not to burden employers with the mandate. I only wish he would extend that generosity to employees.

Warren

In politics, nothing is settled law. ObamaCare WILL be changed, even by Democrats. It has already been changed by Obama himself with his semi-legal fiat. Even in the worst case scenario, it is likely that Republicans will hold on to the House and they have a good chance of winning the Senate next year. If that happens, it will be better for those who support the law to have improved it by then.

The proposals up top are reasonable and smart on their own merits.

Posted by: CJ at October 3, 2013 6:25 AM
Comment #371952

Liberal extremists had to resort to bribes to get the votes needed to make the ACA law. They had to ram it through before the people could have their say. They have changed parts of the law for personal benefit. They have delayed parts of the law for politics.

These far-left liberal extremists have no concept of fairness or compromise.

Posted by: kctim at October 3, 2013 9:24 AM
Comment #371953

phx8, I’m just an old country boy, but I understand when I am being who-dood. Let me get this straight; the House has the right to defund any law they want…the bill then goes to the Senate where Reid puts the funding back in and sends it back to the House. According to you, “two bodies go to conference”. The last I heard, the Republicans in the House have asked to go to conference; but Reid said absolutely not. So much for that theory…

Secondly, Obama has illegally changed the original law 19 times…reason…political advantage. The Democrats are demanding that the House finance a law, that doesn’t even come close to being identified with the original ACA law; so Republicans have every right to refuse to pay for the law.

Lastly, the Republicans are representing 51+% of Americans who want Obamacare repealed or defunded. The Congress in session now is not the same Congress that was in session when the law was passed by a party line vote. The Congress changed in 2010 and it was a result of the law.

The left is trying to act like they are the intellectuals in the room, yet we find them, even on the floor of the Congress using terms like Jihad, terrorist, terrorism, strapping bombs to the America people, etc. There is no excuse for Congressmen and Senators to use terms like this. In fact, the left is using terms against fellow representatives that they won’t even use against Muslim terrorists. The Ft. Hoot shooter was not called a terrorist, it was called work place violence. Don’t you understand this type of thing only inflames people and makes them dig in more.

The American people know that Obama is shutting down places like the open air WWII memorial for the purpose of making the shutdown look worse. Obama even made a comment that he could not understand why Wall Street hasn’t reacted to the shutdown…can anyone say, “the boy crying wolf”. Obama is an adolescent with the mind of an adolescent, trying to run America as a spoiled little king instead of being a president/

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 3, 2013 9:41 AM
Comment #371959

PH,
Not only can the House defund a portion of a bill and send the bill to the Senate, the Senate can keep the name of the bill and completely change the content. For example, the House can send the Senate a budget bill called ‘The Budget Bill’ containing a budget and defunding the ACA. The Senate can strip the contents, and send back a bill called ‘The Budget Bill’ with nothing more in it than provisions for a Panda Suicide Cam. Recently several bills used this method to pass legislation. When the House was unable to form an agreement among Republicans, the Senate took the lead in legislating. They stripped bills, filled them with new content, and sent it back down to the House.

The House Republicans asked to go to conference after shutting down the government. No one is going to negotiate under those conditions, with a metaphorical gun held to their head.

The House Republicans have shut down the government to try to force the Senate and White House to put their agenda in place. The House Republicans have caused 800,000 to be furloughed, and their actions will hurt the economy more and more the longer this goes on.

Wall Street is most certainly reacting today, btw.

The Tea Party is threatening to hurt the country even more by refusing to pay the bills Congress authorized. They are defaulting on the debt.

It is constitutional. Just don’t expect anyone to view them as patriots.

Posted by: phx8 at October 3, 2013 12:01 PM
Comment #371960

Our 2014 enrolment just opened up. As I reported earlier the PPO1 and PPO2 are gone due to the Cadillac tax, replaced with a modified PPO3. I’ve been taking PPO3 for three years now so that’s not a big issue for me, but the folks who liked the better plans are up in arms.

The employee portion of the premium is up over $100/mo for the family plan. That’s almost an 80% increase from last year. Also, because my wife has a healthcare plan available to her from her employer (we’ve always opted out because my plan is better) we are going to have to pay “fee” of another $50/mo.

So to keep what I have in 2013 I’m going to pay an extra $1800 in 2014.

Posted by: George in SC at October 3, 2013 12:22 PM
Comment #371963

In 2000 my premium for the top healthcare plan was $38/mo.
By 2010 my premium for the same plan was $158/mo.

Damn, Obama!

Now in 2013 my premiums are 190/mo. It is all Obama’s fault!

It was predicted by the conservatives that healthcare premiums would go up with the ACA. Dadgummit, if they were’nt right! Who could have predicted it except for those well informed right wing guardians of the nation?

Posted by: LibRick at October 3, 2013 1:54 PM
Comment #371964

“Who could have predicted it except for those well informed right wing guardians of the nation?”

Obviously not the far-left extremists who ‘predicted’ we would save money, be able to keep our plan and keep our doctor.

Posted by: kctim at October 3, 2013 2:38 PM
Comment #371965

Well, the highest premium increases took place during GWB’s presidency, so we should go talk to him! That free market competition screwed me!

and…. regarding fair compromises…
The conservatives in the House and Senate taught President Obama very well how they negotiate compromises. I say he is a slow learner, but looks like he caught on now. Wait till the Republicans cave in to a position he says he wants them to take, then begin negotiating again with the new Republican concession as the baseline.

Wha…? That’s not how we should ‘compromise’? Sound like a plan to me. Kind of like playing chicken with a suicidal idiot. Obama just needs to be willing for the nation’s credit rating to be destroyed. Once Corporate America believes he is willing to let that happen, Obama could likely get anything he wanted.

You know, turn the tables using your opponent’s strategy.

Posted by: LibRick at October 3, 2013 2:59 PM
Comment #371966

PH wrote; “Obama even made a comment that he could not understand why Wall Street hasn’t reacted to the shutdown…”

Probably the first time ever that a sitting president would encourage the markets to decline to suit political ambitions.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 3, 2013 3:07 PM
Comment #371968

“Well, the highest premium increases took place during GWB’s presidency, so we should go talk to him!”

Or we could just talk with the insurance companies (Corporate America) who are responsible for those increases. You know, the people (Corporate America) who wrote the ACA.

Posted by: kctim at October 3, 2013 3:13 PM
Comment #371969

I’m confused now. You think the ACA is socialism, but it was written by capitalists?

Posted by: LibRick at October 3, 2013 3:18 PM
Comment #371971

To put it in chess terms, you have check, but not checkmate. Want to know the distinction? Check means you’re threatening the King. But if the piece can move somewhere thats not threatened, you haven’t won the game. In fact, you can still lose.

The simple fact is, Republicans are trying to use the threat of the Shutdown and the Debt Ceiling to win the game. Why? Because those are the only threats the Republicans have left. They can’t just simply push a budget, and count on it to pass, if it defunds Obamacare, much less destroys it. The Senate would just cut it out and pass it without the provisions.

One of those Constitutional checks and balances, really. The House originates, but the Senate must agree. Extortion, because of unfavorable election results, is all you have left. So, long story short, you are hell and gone away from an actual, reasonable compromise, and you only have yourselves to blame. Worse, if you keep this up, you’re going to end up demonstrating to people that you have no business being allowed to run the House, much less the rest of the government.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 3, 2013 3:29 PM
Comment #371973

LibRick, you are confused because you are putting up lefty strawmen in order to ignore facts.

Posted by: kctim at October 3, 2013 3:46 PM
Comment #371975

According to an article on HuffPo, Boehner has let it be known he will not allow a default. The debt ceiling will be passed with Democratic and some Republican votes. Good move by Boehner. Smart move.

Royal Flush & PH,
Wall Street does not follow expectations, and sometimes it can seem strange. For example, after 9/11, the market fell dramatically. Six weeks later, it was back to the same level as before the attack.

In the current situation, I think the expectation is that the problem will be resolved in what is really the only way it can be resolved. The debt ceiling will be raised. A clean CR will pass.

If that is the case, what then? It will represent a decisive win for the country, for our economy, for Obama, and for Democrats. It will be a decisive loss for the Tea Party extremists, especially Senators Cruz and Lee. Oddly enough, the collateral damage will not be those radicals. It will be ‘moderate’ Republicans. It will take about 53.4% of Americans voting Democratic in 2014 to take the House. The Representatives that will lose their seats won’t so much be the extremists as the ‘moderates’ in marginal purple or blue districts- Reps in states like NY, CA, MN, and so on. There are about 40 of them. It would not take that many for control to revert to the Democrats.

The Tea Party will be marginalized. They made a horrendous mistake, a terrible miscalculation. They completely misunderstood their opponent and the attitude of most Americans towards a shutdown. They believed what they were telling each other, and they were very, very wrong. This will be the end of them as an effective force in politics. We will all be better off for it, and that goes for every one of us, regardless of political persuasion.

And that is what Wall Street likes. Same goes for the Chamber of Commerce. The damage to the economy has to be factored in, of course. There is real damage. Furloughing 800,000 people will have a negative impact, obviously. But it is not a deal breaker for the economy if the shutdown ends in two weeks or less.

Posted by: phx8 at October 3, 2013 4:01 PM
Comment #371985

Fair compromise! Surely you jest C&J. The tea baggers who are holding the government hostage, the same ones who use to tell us how intrusive the government is but now tell us how we won’t miss them whilst shut down, are not compromising nor do they have any intentions to do so. At least according to these guys


Posted by: j2t2 at October 3, 2013 8:34 PM
Comment #371988
Conservatives scare the hell out of liberals… Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 10:47 PM

Political, I don’t know about all or any other liberal but conservatives scare the hell out of me, and rightfully so I believe. They remind me of the desperate people of Germany during the 20’s and early 30’s who were so easily deceived by the propaganda that promised them the entitlements they felt they were owed by others. Much like todays tea baggers who believe they are owed something because they have held the country hostage.

The conservative movement followers have shown us many times they will fall for anything as long as it is wrapped in a flag. They have grown in numbers and have shifted to become more and more extreme over the years. Some tea baggers are insisting on the armed overthrow of the government while their leaders in Congress are using their powers to bring government to a halt.

It is conservatives, extremist conservatives that have caused the country to be the only industrialized nation without an affordable health care system.

So yeah political conservatives who will go to the extremes we have just seen once again in Congress and then spread such lies trying to put the blame on others are scary, just look at history to see where this type of people will end up. We should all be scared.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 3, 2013 9:33 PM
Comment #371995

A liberal on WB a few months ago brought up a proven physiological theory of how often Hitler and Nazi’s are brought into a political debate. There’s a name for it, but I can’t remember; but it seems j2t2 has brought it up again. Throwing Hitler into the fray with terrorist, jihad, and bombs, completes the left’s attacks on anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

phx8 likes to act like he’s an expert on parliamentary law, but he failed to tell us where the Republican House is violating the Constitution. So far I have only heard shrill emotional responses from the left.

As usual, Stephen sounds asinine. I don’t guess it’s extortion for Obama to get on a cable business channel and try to cause the Stock Market to go down; or perhaps his latest tried and true liberal trick of threatening seniors by telling them their SS checks will not come in the mail.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 3, 2013 11:11 PM
Comment #371996
the Republican House is violating the Constitution

There’s a difference between adhering to the spirit of a law and adhering to the letter of the law.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 3, 2013 11:23 PM
Comment #371997

PH,
I am no expert on parliamentary procedures, not by a long shot. It just seems that way to you. Of course, for you, everyone must seem like an expert on virtually everything.

The Republican House is not violating the Constitution by shutting down the government unless the PPACA is repealed. It is just a phenomenally bad decision on their part. And it is not unconstitutional to threaten the economy of the country unless political demands are met, or to furlough 800,000 federal employees. It is legal. But I do not recommend it.

Personally, I would suggest presenting ideas that people vote for, just like they did in 2012. That results in winning elections. Absent one-party control of the White House, Senate, and House, the legislative process requires compromise and cooperation. Extortion works very, very poorly in a divided government. Americans don’t like it, regardless of whether they are liberal or conservative.

The good news is that the government won’t be divided much longer.

Way to go. Keep up the bad work.

Posted by: phx8 at October 3, 2013 11:27 PM
Comment #372003

I am in WV visiting 2 of my granddaughters at their college. While they were in class today, we decided to go to the New River Gorge. There is a national park and an overlook. We drove right in and had access to the open air overlooks, but the office was close. There were many people there, some in cars an some in RV’s. While there, a park ranger put yellow tape across the entrance to the park. People ignored it and drove right in to visit the overlooks and open air trails. The park rangers did nothing. Obama has done this to try to impact the population as much as possible and blame the Republicans. The problem is, almost all the people complained that Obama was doing it on purpose. Not one person blamed the Republicans. And we are talking about the blue state of WV. This game of Obama’s is going to backfire on him.

I believe the American people understand that bills funding the government have been sent to the Senate. After Reid made the blunder about not caring if kids got cancer and died, his spokespeople came out trying to cover it up. The left does not understand, the American people want Obamacare repealed, defunded, and eliminated.

phx8, thanks for the confidence, but there are fields in which I excel.

If the Democrats weren’t scared to death of the conservatives; then perhaps you could explain why the left is trying so hard to make the shutdown of consequence. As of right now, nobody seems to care. I’s for this reason Obama is trying to crash the stock market and scare seniors by telling them their SS checks may not be in the mail.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 4, 2013 2:54 PM
Comment #372005

PHX8 writes; “This will be the end of them (TEA Party) as an effective force in politics.”

WOW…you’re the first leftie that has predicted this since they formed.

Apparently phx8 can’t address why the president would publicly ask why the markets aren’t declining to suit his political purpose.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 4, 2013 3:26 PM
Comment #372007

“Apparently phx8 can’t address why the president would publicly ask why the markets aren’t declining to suit his political purpose.”

That is a really, really confusing sentence.

The markets did decline from their recent highs. However, Boehner has indicated he will not allow the government to default, so that helps. In the meantime, barking-mad Republicans continue calling for the debt ceiling not to be raised. Limbaugh and others try to minimize the economic impact. Like I said, barking-mad stuff to even consider it.

Possible end to the shutdown in sight! The Democrats may be able to use an unusual parliamentary procedure, a discharge petition, to re-open the government with a clean Continuing Resolution. It would require at least 18 Republican signatures and all of the Democrats. If this works, the government will re-open October 14th, thanks to Nancy Pelosi. The Democrats will be the heroes.

It is a dangerous time for America… The death throes of a party, now reduced to threatening the economy with default. Even as we speak, they have furloughed 800,000 federal workers unless demands are met. FEMA workers are prepared to respond to Hurricane Karen without pay. Capitol police are putting themselves on the line for the country without pay. It will tough to get through this, but most Americans will not cooperate with people who seek to harm us all.

Posted by: phx8 at October 4, 2013 4:22 PM
Comment #372008

PH,
So, when the ranger was furloughed and put up yellow tape at the entrance to a national park, people ignored it.

What do you think park rangers do?

National parks belong to all of us. If those people tear down the yellow tape and go into the park and shoot the wildlife, there will be no one to stop them. If they set fires in unsafe places, there will be no one to stop them. If they injure themselves or get lost, they are on their own.

Think things through. Park rangers do a lot more than answer questions about wildlife. They administer, maintain, protect, provide access to emergency services, and more.

And now they are furloughed.

Posted by: phx8 at October 4, 2013 4:41 PM
Comment #372009
And we are talking about the blue state of WV

Huh??????????? Not in my lifetime.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 4, 2013 4:54 PM
Comment #372011

I just read a story of the hardships in the WH due to a large percentage of non-essential staff being furloughed. I suppose that now, obama will have to play basketball by himself…poor man.

Sure hope that Michelle is required to cook his meals…that would be great.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 4, 2013 6:04 PM
Comment #372024
but it seems j2t2 has brought it up again. Throwing Hitler into the fray with terrorist, jihad, and bombs, completes the left’s attacks on anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

No I didn’t Political. You did. I explained why I believe conservatives are scary in response to your comment. So instead of using these red herrings why not respond to what was actually said.

Posted by: j2t2 at October 4, 2013 8:33 PM
Comment #372069

J2’s comment:

Political, I don’t know about all or any other liberal but conservatives scare the hell out of me, and rightfully so I believe. They remind me of the desperate people of Germany during the 20’s and early 30’s who were so easily deceived by the propaganda that promised them the entitlements they felt they were owed by others. Much like todays tea baggers who believe they are owed something because they have held the country hostage.

So j2 is comparing the Tea party to the Nazi movement. I stick by my comment and it was you who brought up Nazi.

WP: WV always been a Democratic State, until recently. They vote against gun grabbers and closing coal mines; but they have always voted pro-union democrat.

phx8; the park rangers were still working; Obama just told them to put up yellow tape. In fact, today we walked right under a yellow police tape and sat at a picnic table with the kids and g-kids. Park ranger saw us and said nothing. My guess is that the park ranger thought Obama was as ignorant as my family did.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 5, 2013 9:50 PM
Comment #372076
until recently

My point exactly. WV is as much a blue state as VT is a red state.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 5, 2013 11:21 PM
Comment #372079

WP; Why is WV recently a red state?

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 6, 2013 12:32 AM
Comment #372086

I was in Kindergarden the last time WV’s electors voted for a Democrat.

When Vermont’s electors voted for Bill Clinton in 1992, it was only the second time in the state’s 200 year history that a Democrat had won Vermont.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 6, 2013 12:13 PM
Comment #372096

WP, so you just determine what color a state is by who they vote for president? What about Congressmen, Senators, Governors, and state legislators?

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 6, 2013 9:24 PM
Comment #372100

Vermont has a long history of electing Republicans to Congress, Senate, Governorship as well.

West Virginia is a conservative state. Only conservative DINOs win elections there.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 6, 2013 10:38 PM
Comment #372132

So Rockefeller and Byrd were DINO’s. Did they support Obama’s socialist healthcare system? In fact, what Obama agenda have they not supported? Sorry little fella, but you will lose this argument. Except for very few democrats inn the house, there are no DINO’s in DC.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 7, 2013 6:57 PM
Post a comment