Senate rejects House bill; government shuts down

The Senate rejected a House bill that would have funded the government but delayed implementation of ObamaCare for a year. The Senate also rejected a House offer to negotiate, so it has become a real game of chicken.

IMO, it was a bad idea to push a delay of ObamaCare. Obama would have, already has, delayed much of the program already. Now he has an excuse.

How will this end? IMO, Obama will agree to delay part of ObamaCare. He will do this not out of a desire to compromise, but rather because he knows it is unworkable. The only thing stopping this right now is that Obama wants to milk the crisis as long as he can in hopes of improving his terrible approval ratings and help Democrats next year. In other words, he is trying to accomplish what Clinton did.

But Obama is no Bill Clinton. Clinton has a knack for seeming reasonable. Obama is not as pleasant.

Who knows what will happen now. One of the fears of government folks is that the shutdown will happen and nobody will much notice, as happened in the sequester. Some programs that are shut down might just not come back.

It is really a crap shoot for both parties and the President. They cannot know the results of this thing. It could end up shrinking government in the way I mentioned above, or it may bring back Pelosi. My guess is that it more likely shrink government than bring back Pelosi, but it is in the nature of crap shoots to be unpredictable.

Posted by Christine & John at October 1, 2013 6:19 AM
Comments
Comment #371825

Oh my! Should I get out of bed this morning?

Posted by: Weary Willie at October 1, 2013 7:00 AM
Comment #371827

CJ:

“One of the fears of government folks is that the shutdown will happen and nobody will much notice, as happened in the sequester. Some programs that are shut down might just not come back.”

The Tampa Bay Times (Pravda West) had a list of possible things that could shut down in this morning’s paper. I guess it was an effort to put pressure politically on why the shutdown is a “disaster”. Other than the National Parks and Museums (a minor inconvenience if you have planned a vacation), there did not seem much on the list that seemed vital.

I am sensitive to the fact that government employees are citizens like the rest of us, and depend on their regular paychecks. It does, however, seem like the “unmitigated disaster” of a shut-down or cancellation (or more usually a reduction in the increased rate of growth) of Federal programs gets proven wrong only when the “disaster” strikes and nothing much happens.

Posted by: Mike in Tampa at October 1, 2013 8:17 AM
Comment #371829

In government, those who can, do. Those who can’t, obstruct.

Bill Clinton faced a Congress that was uniformly in the hands of his opponents. Barack Obama faces a House of Representatives in Republican hands with a Strongly Democratic Senate in his hands.

Republicans have been forced to compromise before, when they were riding the crest of a wave of popular appeal after 2010. Why should a President who has won an election and a stronger delegation in both chambers of Congress concede more than he did when he wasn’t in such good condition?

You folks keep on trying to act like you have your 1994-2006 majority, like you can just run roughshod over it, but your party is not that party.

This is not going to be an absolute disaster, at least I hope not. But the disasters don’t have to be absolute to lose Republicans more of the House, and keep the Senate out of their hands next year.

Republicans need to realize that impairing the function of government is only tolerable so far. There’s going to come a point where folks have to make the tough decision about who’s worth voting for, and you might, having succeeded in turning them against Democrats, just succeed in getting them to sit on their asses on election day.

Failure should not be an option, when it comes to running the government smoothly. People will not long entrust others with power when they so thoroughly fail to use it well and wisely.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 1, 2013 8:50 AM
Comment #371833

I am reminded if Abraham Lincoln’s Cooper Union Address:

Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events.
This, plainly stated is your language…
Under all these circumstances, do you really feel yourselves justified to break up this Government unless such a court decision as yours is, shall be at once submitted to as a conclusive and final rule of political action? But you will not abide the election of a Republican president! In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, “Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!”
To be sure, what the robber demanded of me - my money - was my own; and I had a clear right to keep it; but it was no more my own than my vote is my own; and the threat of death to me, to extort my money, and the threat of destruction to the Union, to extort my vote, can scarcely be distinguished in principle.

Apart from the events of 1860, there is absolutely no precedent for what we are witnessing today.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 1, 2013 10:10 AM
Comment #371841

This is a problem only the American voters can solve. Republicans realize this very well - have for years - and have positioned themselves at the State level with the power to gerrymander districts and now pass local laws to make voting more difficult, thus increase the odds of keeping themselves in power. The greatest threat to the Republican’s ability to make political powerplays with a minority popularity is overstepping their bounds.

I believe the Republicans have done that. Republicans continued practice of listening to themselves in their ‘echo chamber’. (I am reminded of the Fox News debacle of Karl Rove being asked during the last Presidential Election if his election math was real or math that Republicans do to make themselves feel better.) We will soon find out if “everyone hates Obamacare” and if “Obamacare will kill American businesses and destroy full time jobs”.

The Republicans have painted themselves into a corner… put themselves in a box… and only the Democrats caving will get them out. I sincerely hope the Democrats keeping holding together. This is the first time I have really been proud of the President and of the Democrats. We should have gone for single payer healthcare… true socialized medicine. The country would have been better off for it.

The Republican House and even Senate are doomed to disintegration if they do not change and that is very hard for them. See this to understand why. They are quickly losing the crowd that support them.

Posted by: LibRick at October 1, 2013 1:46 PM
Comment #371848

Frum was right. This looks like the Republican Waterloo.

I am still amazed the GOP would shutdown the government. There is a saying: “make good choices.” The GOP is making a shockingly bad choice, and now it seems they might double down, and make even worse choices. How did it come to this? What possessed the GOP to follow the Tea Party extremists, and put themselves in a position of losing so badly, not just today, but in the 2014 midterms?

“Make good choices.” It is excellent advice. The GOP apparently never heard that saying. It reminds me of a SNL skit with the Sassy Gay Friend. When the character Juliet, from the play “Romeo and Juliet,” is about to kill herself and join the dead Romeo, who should pop in with a last minute intervention but Juliet’s Sassy Gay Friend! “What, what, WHAT are you thinking?” The Friend puts things into perspective, gives Juliet some advice, talks her out of killing herself, and off they go. (The video is only 1:14).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwnFE_NpMsE

But the GOP apparently doesn’t have any sassy gay friends. Instead, as one Republican said, they are “lemmings wearing suicide vests.”

What, what, what are you thinking?

Part of the problem comes from inexperience. Cruz is a freshman junior Senator. Lee, Rubio, Rand, and many of the House Tea Party extremists were not around for the 1995 GOP shutdown. It went very badly for Republicans, but they don’t know that. For some reason, the radicals and extremists of today refuse to believe it when people tell them, including Newt Gingrich and John McCain. They are in a bubble, they keep telling each other the public does not want Obamacare and they will not hold the GOP responsible, and then they believe their own echoes.

Many Republicans have told the extremists this is a terrible idea, a dumb idea. But many Republicans, especially in the House, cannot stand up to the Tea Party yet for fear of being primaried from the right.

Virtually all available information outside the conservative echo chamber tells them they are on the way to an epic loss, a true Waterloo. But the MSM and all polls that show unpleasant information are disregarded because they are products of a conspiracy between pollsters and the MSM.

“Look at your life. Look at your choices.”

Perhaps the game plan is to keep the government shut down, and then threaten the country with a possible economic meltdown, by refusing to raise the debt ceiling on 10/17, unless their demands are met. Boehner solicited suggestions for demands, and basically received a wish list of the Romney agenda in 2012.

For some reason, the GOP seems convinced the Democrats and Obama will respond to the hostage taking by caving to demands. The House turned down at least 17 offers by Senate Democrats to go to conference and negotiate the budget. The Republicans turned down all 17 attempts…

This won’t work. There is only one way this will end. For the good of the country, and for the good of all Americans, these people must fail in their attempt to overturn the 2012 election, and they must be prevented from destroying the economic and political health of the country. Boehner needs to let the House vote on a clean CR and raise the debt ceiling. Both Republicans and Democrats will vote for it in both the House & the Senate, they will pass it, and Obama will sign.

Since a sassy gay friend is not in the house, how about a song from ABBA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj_9CiNkkn4

Posted by: phx8 at October 1, 2013 5:41 PM
Comment #371856

The Congress is different from the Senate in a peculiar way; Congressmen represent districts and are voted on every 2 years while Senators represent states and are elected every 6 years. Senators get by with more shenanigans because they have 6 years for the voters to forget their voting record and they are also voted in with a greater diversity of voters. Congressmen can’t do that; people remember how they voted and they are voted in by a district that leans one way or another. That being said; the Republican congressmen would definitely not be voting against the wishes of their districts, because they would now if they did, they would be history. My guess is that Republicans are doing exactly what their constituents want. Two Democrats voted with the Republicans to delay Obamacare, while 18 Democrats voted with Republicans to repeal the medical devise tax. 100% of Congressmen voted to continue pay the military. There are 2 Democrats who chose wisely to repeal Obamacare…there were 18 Democrats who chose wisely to vote to repeal the medical devise tax, and all Democrats chose wisely to pay the military. Congressmen vote with their constituents, one way or the other. What would Nancy Pelosi’s constituents have to say if she had voted to repeal Obamacare. We have a better news access now than we did 17 years ago. We no longer depend on the MSM for our news and Obama has counted on the MSM to make the case for him that Republicans are trying to shut down government. People have a much better understanding of what is going on; except for the low information crowd, and it doesn’t matter with them because they are Obama worshippers anyway.

You guys on the left love to attack conservatives and use all manner of evil descriptive names, but when it all boils down, they are voting their supporter’s wishes.

The Republicans are laying a case against Reid and Obama. Every time Reid pushes the Democrats to table a bill and every time Obama threatens to veto, a plethora of information is provided for 2014 election advertisements. And this is why some Democrats wisely chose to vote with Republicans.

Regarding Cruz and his 21 hour speech; both sides are upset with him because he revealed how the Congress works. The Republicans allowed Reid to have his cloture vote on the CR and defunding Obamacare. May RINO Republicans voted with Reid; and then when Reid cut the defunding out with a simple majority, these same RINO Republicans voted not to defund Obamacare, of which they then went to their constituents and told of how they voted to defund. These RINO’s have lied and they will pay a price in the next election.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 1, 2013 6:58 PM
Comment #371860

Americans will blame the shutdown on the tea party and conservative Republicans will be history after the 2016 election.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 1, 2013 7:43 PM
Comment #371861

PH,
You are right about the difference between Senators and Representatives, with gerrymandering accentuating the difference. However, even Representatives are not immune to the political winds outside their districts. There are 40 or so ‘moderate’ Republicans in the Northeast, MN, CA, and elsewhere. A party which fails to be inclusive will find itself with a pure base, pure politicians, and prospects for being in the minority forever. The GOP needs those ‘moderates.’ Losing RINOs means losing the House in 2014 and the White House in 2016.

I think the Democrats would cut a deal with the medical device tax. It raises @ $29 billion a year. The intention of the PPACA was always to be revenue neutral, and that tax is part of the formula for achieving neutrality. Right now, the CBO shows health care reform will save more money than originally thought. I suspect the Democrats would trade the tax for a clean CR and raising the debt ceiling for a year. Twelve GOP Congressman have already indicated they would vote for a clean CR, so sweetening the deal with a repeal of a relatively minor tax in exchange for raising the debt ceiling would give everybody a fig leaf to claim victory.

Posted by: phx8 at October 1, 2013 7:56 PM
Comment #371863

Phx8

They should cut a deal on the medical device tax. That is one of the stupidest taxes in history, evidently designed to slow innovation in the life science field.

Posted by: CJ at October 1, 2013 9:19 PM
Comment #371865

Republicans should continue on the path they are on now. Keep holding firm.

Posted by: LibRick at October 1, 2013 10:18 PM
Comment #371868

CJ,
“That Ted Cruz. They have to teach him something or cut his legs out from under him.”
Trent Lott, former GOP Senate Majority Leader

And

“They’ve made their point. It’s time to say enough and move on.” Referring to the die-hard tea partiers in the House Republican caucus, he added, “These new guys don’t care about making things work.” Lott noted that in the mid-1990s, he warned then-Speaker Newt Gingrich not to force a government shutdown. “I knew it wouldn’t be good for us,” he said.

He noted that when he was in the House in the 1980s he mounted a campaign against a fellow Republican who had challenged him for a leadership post. “Took me two years,” he recalled. “But I got him. And he was out of the House.”
(Mother Jones interview)

Senator Cruz is done. He just doesn’t know it yet. He has made a lot of enemies in the GOP, and they will come for him when the time is right. Boehner hasn’t said anything, but what does everyone imagine he was thinking as he watched Senators Cruz and Lee take the unprecedented step of entering the floor of his chamber and whipping votes for a government shutdown among his caucus? It may take a while, but there are a lot of very powerful people in the Republican Party who will not forget this little stunt. It was ill-conceived, misguided, executed without an end-game, and it involved an absurdly inaccurate assessment of the opposition and the mood of the public. Senior Senators and Representatives are not elected because they are nice people. And Cruz very foolishly caused a lot of damage. Maybe he was just too inexperienced, or overly zealous, or too full of hubris. Doesn’t matter. They will come after him. He and Lee are virtually guaranteed of being a one-term Senators.

Posted by: phx8 at October 1, 2013 10:58 PM
Comment #371870

phx8

I am not a Texas voter or a Cruz supporter. You can say what you want about him in general within the bounds of political discourse. My objection to attacks on him was that his legal, peaceful and courageous dissent from Obama was characterized as similar to terrorism and he was compared - actually unfavorably - to people like the Iranian leader.

As I wrote on other occasions, I think we should let ObamaCare go forward. It will not work in anything like its present form and need to be restructured from top to bottom, but we won’t be able to do this until the current version collapses on its own weight. It is a costly mistake that Obama made by pushing this through, but it is done and we can only work in the future.

Obama loves the shutdown. It is the kind of dirty political stage where he is master. If we give him his ObamaCare and let him try to make it work, he will be on the stage he does poorly, i.e. governing.

It is a political mistake for Republicans to shutdown.

That said, Cruz is not comparable to a foreign enemy.

And the medical device tax is just plain stupid.

Posted by: CJ at October 2, 2013 6:15 AM
Comment #371873

The Democrats shut down the WWII memorial yesterday and it was re-opened by Republican Congressmen/women. The House Democrats also voted yesterday against a bill opening the WWII memorial for 85-99 year old WWII vets. Today the Democrats once again will have mounted park police blocking more WWII vets from entering the memorial. This won’t play out good for Democrats unless they are there with Republicans to take down the barricade.

Cruz is not hurt at all. He will be re-elected and so will more conservative politicians. Stephen Daugherty is not a typical Texan and does not represent how the majority of Texan’s feel.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 9:57 AM
Comment #371875
I am not a Texas voter or a Cruz supporter.

However, your attitudes an inaction are what enables the crazies to do what they are doing.

Speaker Boehner could end the whole thing whenever he wants by simply having a vote on a clean CR. The CR would win a vote in the House by a landslide. Why doesn’t he do it? Because he fears the repercussions from the crazies, but not from the moderates. If the RINOS actually had balls they could get this done, and if it means deposing Boehner, then so be it.

BTW, I’ve found Jim Fallows’s coverage of the whole crisis to be top notch. He absolutely destroys the notion that this is a case of a pox on both houses when it clearly is not.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 10:06 AM
Comment #371876

This is a good article about the new sheriffs in town:

Anchors and editors continue to insist that if the GOP were smart, it would bow to “conventional wisdom” and put its foot on the fiscal accelerator. That’s what this is about. The elites fully expected Republicans “led” by McConnell and Boehner to fold, and are stunned – furious, really – that they are being disobeyed.

There are new sheriffs in Washington who won’t be intimidated and are willing to fight this Wild West of government excess. Their names include Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Marco Rubio, and Rand Paul.

In politics, there are four levels of response to political insurgency: Ignore, ridicule, savage, accept. We are at Stage Two, moving toward Stage Three. TV reporters treat them as comic figures. ABC’s Jon Karl took the marathon Cruz speech and fast-forwarded it in mockery, declaring “The absurdities were on display when Tea Party hero Ted Cruz gave his 20 hour-plus speech demanding an end to ObamaCare in exchange for funding the government. Bedtime story included.” This because Cruz read a Dr. Seuss story to his children over the TV since he wasn’t coming home.

Then Karl showed a mocking clip from liberal comedian Jon Stewart, reading from a fake book called “The Bore-ax” that Cruz was the “showboatiest blab” in the “Senate of snooze.”

Ridicule, however, won’t suffice on the budget battles. This is where distortions and negative attacks come in. Seven months ago, reporters reflexively launched into complete Panic Mode to push Obama’s theme on the sequester. ABC morning anchor Josh Elliott warned “massive government cuts go into effect that could impact every American: jobs vaporizing, flights delayed, even criminals walking free.” ABC reporter David Kerley said “It sounds like a disaster movie!”

None of that happened. None of it. Who is the fool now? ABC reporters really deserve to be put in fast-forward video, followed by a Jon Stewart joke about blabby showboating.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 10:09 AM
Comment #371877

So Warren Porter, you do not see the Democrat Party as being controlled by ultra left wing socialists? Word is that Reid told Obama to not even consider talking to Republicans. Why would he do that?

The deposing of Boehner is more wishful thinking and liberal talking points of the leftist MSM. The Republican house is doing just fine and they are representing their constituents. If you read the above article, you will find that Reagan was blasted by the left and by the establishment Republicans for his conservative ideals; yet won election by a land slide…twice. These conservative Republicans are the future of the Republican Party and I know it scares the crap out of the left, but get over it. I just love how the left tells conservatives what they should do to win elections.

Obama is a complete disaster and the Democrats are allowing Reid to set the agenda for their own downfall. So I say let things run their course. As the sequester was hailed as the end of the country as we know it…the shut down will be the same.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 10:29 AM
Comment #371879

I am asking for a serious response here. Could one of you conservatives please detail just what these ultra-left wing socialists want? What is their agenda. What type of government/nation are they attempting to achieve?

I would like to be able to recognize who these people are by their actions.

Posted by: LibRick at October 2, 2013 10:50 AM
Comment #371880

All the predictions of Republicans being punished is nothing more than wishful thinking from liberals. Those evil Republicans will be reelected because they’re doing that their constitutes want them to do: fight Obamacare. Republicans will have a net gain in 2014. The only question is how much of a gain. That’s why they’re acting the way they are. They have no fear from Democrats. After the last shutdown, there was no political backlash. Republicans even gained seats in the Senate. Clinton was reelected because of the economy and his reelection had nothing to do with the shutdown. To suggest the last shutdown or this shutdown will hurt Republicans more than Democrats in the mid term elections is disingenuous.

Posted by: Ragsdale0509 at October 2, 2013 11:11 AM
Comment #371881

Correction: Those evil Republicans will be reelected because they’re doing that their constituents want them to do: fight Obamacare.

Stupid spellchecker.

Posted by: Ragsdale0509 at October 2, 2013 11:13 AM
Comment #371883
they’re doing that their constitutes want them to do: fight Obamacare.

The same constituents who just reelected Obama by 5 million votes? The constituents who netted the Democrats 2 additional seats in the Senate and 8 seats in the House? The constituents who cast 1.7 million more votes for House Democrats than House Republicans? Sounds more like a raving endorsement of the PPACA to me. And by the time the next election comes, the PPACA will be in full force, but the sky will not have fallen, which makes the GOP House of Cards fall.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 11:41 AM
Comment #371891

It really tickles and encourages me when I read the liberals above spelling the doom of conservatism. The hypocrites pretend to tell the right how to win elections by becoming more like them. Can the Republican Party steal democrat voters by pretending to be democrats? Perhaps! We have many examples of Republican political candidates running as Conservatives and performing like Liberals.

So what we need are stealth Conservative candidates who say one thing to get elected and do something else entirely when in office. It works for many Republican and Democrat incumbents.

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 2, 2013 2:40 PM
Comment #371892
what we need are stealth Conservative candidates who say one thing to get elected and do something else entirely when in office.

You mean like Barack Obama?

He advocated single payer before he was President, and now he defends a conservative plan modeled after the ideas of Romney, the Heritage Foundation and John Chafee.

He cut the deficit in half from $1.4T to $.6T.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 3:39 PM
Comment #371893

Warren, beware of getting involved in the promises and positions obama made while running for office, then reneged on, as you will be embarrassed. The most glaring one is his senatorial condemnation of increasing the national debt.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” …….. Senator Barack Obama

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 2, 2013 3:58 PM
Comment #371898
his senatorial condemnation of increasing the national debt.

This occurred when Democrats were in the minority and before the economic meltdown. Because Republicans were in the majority, there was no actual risk of a debt crisis.

Bush asked for another debt ceiling increase during the 110th Congress (when Democrats were in the majority) and Democrats didn’t raise a fuss.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 4:32 PM
Comment #371900

Warren writes; ” his senatorial condemnation of increasing the national debt.

This occurred when Democrats were in the minority and before the economic meltdown. Because Republicans were in the majority, there was no actual risk of a debt crisis.”

You obviously don’t even see or understand the duplicity of your remarks. Was obama lying then…or now?

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 2, 2013 4:37 PM
Comment #371901
The same constituents who just reelected Obama by 5 million votes? The constituents who netted the Democrats 2 additional seats in the Senate and 8 seats in the House? The constituents who cast 1.7 million more votes for House Democrats than House Republicans? Sounds more like a raving endorsement of the PPACA to me. And by the time the next election comes, the PPACA will be in full force, but the sky will not have fallen, which makes the GOP House of Cards fall. Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 11:41 AM
You mean like Barack Obama?

He advocated single payer before he was President, and now he defends a conservative plan modeled after the ideas of Romney, the Heritage Foundation and John Chafee.

He cut the deficit in half from $1.4T to $.6T.

Posted by: Warren Porter at October 2, 2013 3:39 PM

Warren, why is it so hard for you to understand. Conservatives considered Romney a establishment RINO Republican. In fact, there were millions less Republican voters who stayed home and didn’t vote at all rather than vote for Romney.

Obama also had 11 million less votes in 2012 than he did in 2008…it could have been because of Obamacare, or it could have been because the voters felt they were disenfranchised. But no matter, a 5 million majority out of a nation of over 300 million is not a mandate, no matter how much you and the left want to claim it. If the votes were a mandate for PPACA, then explain to me why a solid 50-60% of Americans want it repealed or defunded?

You also know yourself that a few pickup seats for the Democrats is expected in an election year when the president is on the ticket. Shall we go back to the 2010 anti-obamacare election year and see how many seats the Republicans won? Care to make any guesses as to who will gain seats in 2014, another presidential off year?

Your side cried gloom and doom over the sequester, and yet nothing happened. Now you are out there again crying gloom and doom over the shutdown. The markets show no concern over the shutdown…even the president brought up the market reaction as being unusually unresponsive to the shutdown. You guys cry about the House cutting funding to a “Law”; but the House is within it’s Constitutional right to cut funding to any law.

Re/the deficit: First..let’s get one thing clear…the CBO is a calculator, not an analyst. If you give it bad numbers to work with, it produces results based on the bad numbers. Obama’s budget numbers are based on rosier than rosy budget projections and costs for Obamacare. In other words….he’s a liar.

We are in a moribund economy right now thanks to Barack Obama. GDP is at a snail’s pace. He has the biggest under-employment rate since WWII. The most hiring is taking place for part-time and low wage jobs.

Obama has reached an impasse. The public is aware that we have a debt problem and costs need to be cut as well as spending. But Obama keeps wanting to spend more believing he can keep going back to the “tax the rich guy” well to fund his spending (actually..he knows the middle class will get hit for the cost but he’s not saying that openly). So now Obama’s having to give the CBO bad numbers and so he can lie about deficits. I don’t believe the public will buy what he’s selling…they can see things for themselves.

Then we might consider, what part does the sequester play in the deficit?

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 4:47 PM
Comment #371906

So, no responses to what comprises an ultra-left wing socialist that are supposedly controlling the Democratic Party.

Just a phrase to name-call and rile up their right wing brethren.

I know what I think an ultra-right wing conservative is/wants. Correct me if I am wrong.
= minimal government intrusion or regulation in business and environment. what regulation there is should protect the business’s rights to do business as it sees fit. Monetary and market strengths can and should be used to leverage competitive advantage. In other words, free market for business.
= private citizens right to bear arms with little or no regulation, especially federal.
= private citizens right to own, purchase, or sell services, property, and goods as they see fit.
= minimal federal government and minimal federal taxes.
= end federal education programs and funds
= end or privatize entitlements such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid
= strengthen federal justice/police/detention programs for law breakers
= strengthen the military and use it for political foreign policy disputes
= severely limit birth control, abortion, and all services regarding choice in birth decisions for women and families.
= limit or eliminate federal funding for unemployment insurance as well as food and housing assistance for the poor.
= eliminate minimum hourly wage (should have included in regulation category)
= continue with federal subsidies to energy companies and other businesses which they decide are critical to the economic health of what they consider critical business.

I’m sure I missed something. But this is honestly how I see the right wing agenda. Now you might find this list quite a reasonable set of goals. They scare the bejeezus out of me because I see even MORE economic inequality as a result of their implementation.

Come on, right wingers, how do you see those ultra-left wing socialist you think are so dangerous to our existence.

Posted by: LibRick at October 2, 2013 5:36 PM
Comment #371909

Political Hostage-
The facts make the case. Whether the exhibit is a) Tea Partier’s gleefully hoping for the shutdown the way some fundamentalists hope for the apocalypse, or b) the fact that only they could start the budget process rolling, or c) the fact that they’d already been rejected on repealing or delaying the Affordable Care act dozens of other times, there is no way to successfully argue that the Republicans were either blindsided by the Democrats’ unwillingness to repeal or delay, or that the Democrats were the ones who put the controversy in motion.

Nobody who doesn’t have their head stuck in the FOXNews Clouds believed Democrats wanted this, much less forced it to happen.

That turning away from the MSM doesn’t help you. Sure, you’ve got people talking about slimdowns and slowdowns, helping to feed the talking points to you, but all that means is that while most people are seeing the hair-raising, appallingly stupid behavior of the Tea Party, you’re luxuriating in a nice, frothy bubble bath of bull****. It’s not a good thing to feel great about pushing an unpopular policy, or using alienating, abrasive methods.

The Republicans may think they’re laying the case against the Democrats, but Americans are instead seeing one more chapter in the reckless, feckless abuse of the power they gave Republicans in 2010. The Tea Partiers may be able to survive for the time being in their specially crafted, retrograde orbiting districts (that is, ones specially designed to get whiter, more conservative, more rural as the rest of the country goes in the other direction), but what they’re really doing is wearing down the Republican/Conservative brand, and perhaps breaking it outright if the Debt Ceiling is not extended.

You’re so damn worried about purifying the party that you and others run afoul of a critical phenomena of social engineering: the Strength of Weak Ties. While you may love being able to mingle with and rely upon people who think just like you, talk just like you, the truth is, if you go out to find the people who are just like that, you’re likely to find they’re already linked into your culture already!

Political movements have to send out roots and branches to the more imperfect, yet potentially allied demographics and cultures. You might not get the kind of political purity you want, but you might get more policy through on the basis of your allies.

As the “RINOs” get cut away, what you’re left with is a smaller group of true believers. The Democrats, being less picky, pick up the people who are disaffected, who you offended, and thereby succeed.

Put another way? The Tea Party is helping to make Democrats both stronger and more politically united, not to mention providing them with new demographics to expand with. You can make the RINOs pay the price, but you’ve ignored the price you pay because of candidates who run so far outside the mainstream that their candidacy hands the office to your rivals.

As for the 21 Hour speech? Folks are less frightened of revelations, and more amused at the façade of daring he affects, and the hot air that went out. He may make you guys tingle with anticipation, but everybody else thinks he’s a joke. That you can’t register how much of a joke he looks like to other people is part of the sad trouble your people have these days.

On the subject of the WWII memorial, you shut that down. You knew what trying to blackmail the destruction of Obamacare out of that Continuing resolution was going to do. YOU KNEW.

And further on that, the reason why it’s barricaded isn’t some particular hatred for our WWII vets, its because we don’t have the money to clean up after visitors, to police that place, to take care of the people there. Maybe you think going without that is sustainable, but then you folks think that cutting taxes will invariably raise revenues.

As for your sheriffs? They’re blowhards. They’re abrasive a******s. There’s a reason you guys lost the bid to unseat Harry Reid three years ago. There’s a reason that Claire McCaskill survived last year. There’s a reason Democrats gained two seats when they were expected to lose three. You folks are so wrapped up in your own little world that you’ve lost touch with what the voters are willing to tolerate.

You’ll tell itself it’s because the media’s against you, but in truth, that’s not your problem. The problem is, all the folks who aren’t obligated to report from planet Tea Party are looking at these people much like most normal people are, astounded at their tactless extremism.

You’re so busy claiming yourselves the victims of bias that you can’t do the one thing that could help your people, save them: you’re failing to recognize your own movement’s insidiously strong biases, the biases that are cutting you off from the rest of American culture as it develops in its own direction.

You’re not the saviors of the GOP, you’re the anchor slung around its waist, keeping it from adapting to the post George W. Bush reality of politics.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at October 2, 2013 5:56 PM
Comment #371910

LibRick…here are a few ideas that may appeal to you.

What Socialist America Will Look Like
James P. Cannon

http://www.marxists.org/archive/cannon/works/1953/socialistamer.htm

Posted by: Royal Flush at October 2, 2013 5:58 PM
Comment #371938

LibRick wants to know what an “ultra left wing socialist” is; I would suggest LibRick look in a mirror.

Stephen Daugherty has once again crawled out from under his rock to call conservatives names and quote the latest liberal talking points.

But I have a question for those on the left. Without using Google, who made this speech and when was it made.

If I were the Devil … I mean, if I were the Prince of Darkness, I would of course, want to engulf the whole earth in darkness. I would have a third of its real estate and four-fifths of its population, but I would not be happy until I had seized the ripest apple on the tree, so I should set about however necessary to take over the United States. I would begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: “Do as you please.” “Do as you please.” To the young, I would whisper, “The Bible is a myth.” I would convince them that man created God instead of the other way around. I would confide that what is bad is good, and what is good is “square”. In the ears of the young marrieds, I would whisper that work is debasing, that cocktail parties are good for you. I would caution them not to be extreme in religion, in patriotism, in moral conduct. And the old, I would teach to pray. I would teach them to say after me: “Our Father, which art in Washington” …

If I were the devil, I’d educate authors in how to make lurid literature exciting so that anything else would appear dull an uninteresting. I’d threaten T.V. with dirtier movies and vice versa. And then, if I were the devil, I’d get organized. I’d infiltrate unions and urge more loafing and less work, because idle hands usually work for me. I’d peddle narcotics to whom I could. I’d sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. And I’d tranquilize the rest with pills. If I were the devil, I would encourage schools to refine yound intellects but neglect to discipline emotions … let those run wild. I would designate an athiest to front for me before the highest courts in the land and I would get preachers to say “she’s right.” With flattery and promises of power, I could get the courts to rule what I construe as against God and in favor of pornography, and thus, I would evict God from the courthouse, and then from the school house, and then from the houses of Congress and then, in His own churches I would substitute psychology for religion, and I would deify science because that way men would become smart enough to create super weapons but not wise enough to control them.

If I were Satan, I’d make the symbol of Easter an egg, and the symbol of Christmas, a bottle. If I were the devil, I would take from those who have and I would give to those who wanted, until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. And then, my police state would force everybody back to work. Then, I could separate families, putting children in uniform, women in coal mines, and objectors in slave camps. In other words, if I were Satan, I’d just keep on doing what he’s doing.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 2, 2013 10:31 PM
Comment #371940

Just as I thought. Name calling, but no real political discussion. No picture of what those Democratic politicians stand for. Just some wacko website cited to try and link it with actual people in the Democratic party. Nothing real here. Hyperbole and fantastical, nightmarish scenes drawn to paint the opposition, not as they are, but as boogeymen found in fairy tales (thus the webpage citation).

PH posts some other gibberish.

No wonder most of America takes the extreme right wingers as ‘wacko-birds”. Their representatives’ tongues would fall out if they spoke the truth.

Posted by: LibRick at October 2, 2013 11:13 PM
Comment #371944

Name calling, but no real political discussion…fantastical, nightmarish scenes drawn to paint the opposition

Hey, it’s your side that’s going nuts over the shutdown and predicting the end of the world. “extremist”, “Terrorists”, “Bombs strapped to themselves”…These are words from your side, not ours.

Posted by: Political Hostage at October 3, 2013 12:02 AM
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