Media Outlash On Ted Cruz

Senator Ted Cruz held the floor for over 21 hours in a pseudo-filibuster to defund Obamacare. Ultimately, it led to a civil battle in the Republican party when Cruz refused to hand the mic over to Harry Reid. After reading many tweets and performing a Darth Vader impression, Cruz actually voted against what he had been arguing for 21 hours.

The backlash in the media has been astounding, and it's more about Cruz's refusal to be placated by the norms and the deliberative standards in the Senate. Basically, everyone is kicking up dirt at the playground because Ted Cruz didn't play by the rules.

Senator John McCain is one of Cruz's fellow Republicans outraged by his act. In all honesty, we've been witnessing our government fail for years because of the absence of any bipartisanship. It's like a broken record, yet we keep going through the same motions. How many times have we had a potential government shutdown throughout Obama's Presidency? Cruz made it clear enough is enough, and opted not to go with the flow this time because clearly it's not working. Disrupting an already disrupted government may not be a super solution, but it was somewhat refreshing to see someone make their own decision.

There are now accusations that Cruz isn't a "real Republican," and McCain is quick to assure this statement, but McCain didn't win an election as a Republican. So it's probably not necessarily a bad thing that Cruz doesn't fit the mold of this said "real Republican."

Posted by bigtex at September 26, 2013 1:15 PM
Comments
Comment #371710

Media backlash? Government failure because of the lack of bipartisanship? McCain didn’t win an election as a Republican? Holy cow!

The Democrats won the 2012 elections, and the PPACA was one of the big issues. Obama won the White House 51 -47, with a decisive 332 electoral votes. Democrats picked up seats in the Senate, and did well in House too, although the GOP maintained a slim majority. The PPACA was Obama’s signature legislation, it passed the House & Senate, it was signed by Obama, and deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court.

Cruz wants to repeal the legislation. That is not going to happen under any circumstances. The only possible outcome will be for the GOP to lose. Worse, the House has come up with 41 unsuccessful attempts to repeal the legislation, and none to improve it. It makes any claims today about delay or about problems seem disingenuous, at best. Now all the conservative echo chamber assurances about the PPACA have painted the them into a corner. The smart move for the party is to let it go. But that echo chamber has made the GOP become desperate. Cruz has chosen to whip up the extremist and radical “wacko birds,” encouraging them to believe something is possible- repeal of the PPACA- when it is impossible. He and a small cadre in the Senate (about 14 Senators) deliberately stalled the CR, forcing the entire country to deal with the distinct possibility of a shutdown of government unless their demands are met. It is a lose/lose for the GOP. The vast majority of Americans think shutting down the government is a bad thing, and while Cruz may enhance his standing among the fringe, the GOP will suffer a great deal. They will be blamed. No question. And it could easily result in the loss of the House in the next election.

The House Republicans can be split into three camps: 1) Roughly 60 - 80 moderate Republicans. The other 2/3 consist of a third that are crazies who can occasionally be convinced to do sane things, and then another third, the Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs “wacko birds.” This last faction consists of roughly 40 to 60 Republicans. (Interesting stat- 141 GOP Republicans are Global Warming Deniers). Because the craziest third is needed for the GOP majority to pass any legislation, they have made themselves heard. Any Republicans not cooperating face primary challenges from the fringiest of the fringe, and those are the ones likely to participate in midterm elections. Meanwhile, the GOP has been drifting further and further into a world of ‘lieception,’ of living in an echo chamber of lies within lies, something like “Inception,” to the point they can no longer function; now, the only way the GOP can pass legislation is for the House leadership to abandon the “wacko birds” and allow the sane third to vote with the Democrats.

Bipartisanship is alive and well. It just consists of Democrats and that sane third of Republicans.

So Cruz has encouraged a circular firing squad. Obama is wisely staying out of their way, with another stunning foreign policy achievement occurring with Iran.

By Monday we will all see if the Republicans shoot themselves with Saturday Night Specials, or shut down the government and reach for their AR-15 Bushmasters to really make sure of the job.

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2013 5:55 PM
Comment #371712

You’re the victim of a fraud, really. They promise you things they can’t deliver with their numbers. They tell you that most people believe what they do, when in reality, they don’t, and the numbers are growing fewer.

What Conservatism needs is to rehabilitate itself as a practical style of governance. At this point, it’s all so doctrinaire, so over simplified that people don’t even realize that what Cruz voted for after what was essentially a long speech, was just to open up debate on the bill.

He did vote to deny cloture later, so don’t you worry about that. But he did so in vain. In essence, his problem is that the other Senators understand that they can only do one of two things: support a filibuster and catch the blame for the shutdown, and let the Democrats do what they’d be doing anyways, and vote against the bill.

Tea Party Republicans, while fond of telling other people how the constitution works, fail to appreciate the way the Constitution reinforces Democratic power in the Senate to sink their attempts to undo what Democrats did in 2010.

They fail to appreciate a basic fact: while the ability to obstruct is a profound power, it’s also a fairly static one. You can only keep things from changing, not really force them to change like you’d want them too.

Posted by: Stephen Daugherty at September 27, 2013 6:18 PM
Comment #371716

Wow C&J this Cruz guys sounds like a regular Don Quixote taking on the Senate for wanting to pay the legally incurred bills of the nation. Really C&J framing this as an argument on Obamacare is pitiful,IMHO. It is about raising the debt limit.

Had the man any cajones at all he would gather up his like minded Senators and Representatives and submit a separate bill to repeal Obamacare….. oh wait haven’t they done this 40 some times already? SO now they want to defund Obamacare, which is a clear picture of the tyranny of the minority at it’s most obvious.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 27, 2013 7:46 PM
Comment #371717

j2t2

I got no dog in this fight.

My own opinion is that Republicans are being silly in trying to stop funding for ObamaCare. The law passed and unlike the President himself Congress should respect the rule of law. But there is a more practical consideration. The best way to stop ObamaCare is to let it go forward. It just will not work. The President himself keeps on postponing parts of it. It will be an expensive lesson, but once the many mistakes of ObamaCare are clearly manifest, the American people may finally reject this kind of government overreach in general.

I say, let all the poisons that lurk in that Obama mud hatch out.

Posted by: CJ at September 27, 2013 8:13 PM
Comment #371718

I’ve been unhappy over the last 4 - 5 years with the political infighting within the GOP.

It’s basically a long-standing and historical battle. William F. Buckley, et al., sprung from the Goldwater years because of similar shenanigans.

Nowadays, there seems to be this ‘who’s-the-real-conservative-among-us’ Litmus Test that’s wreaking havoc with Conservatives, Republicans, Tea Party folk and the so-called ‘Establishment crowd.

To be sure, creative friction, debate and policy difference is normal — even expected. However, It gets old when one’s motives are riddled with personal politics and narcissism.

Sen. Ted Cruz seems to stand on his principles. He knows full-well that his amendment to defund the ACA is a non-starter.

He is very well-educated and very well-spoken. But is he in it for himself? History has shown us over and over again, how power corrupts. Yes, Cruz is indeed the proverbial bull in the china shop, his elbows are sharp, and, he pisses the hell off of pols like McCain and others. We can all hear Cruz’s detractors murmuring to their wives or husbands in a private setting… ‘who the #@!& does this rookie think he is?’

Personally, I’m woefully skeptical; yet, at the same time — this dude is carrying a serious set of brass cajones!

Posted by: Kevin L. Lagola at September 27, 2013 8:17 PM
Comment #371721

C&J,
I just had the pleasure of spending a few days on the Long Beach Peninsula, enjoying a B&B, perfect weather, a vast and beautiful and virtually deserted beach, and great food, as well as great company. It turns out I met a person at the B&B who was more knowledgeable than anyone I have ever met in person about the PPACA, Social Security, and Medicare. Meeting a person with that level of expertise was really remarkable. She is a federal employee involved in these programs in SW WA, and that is all I will say about her, since I do not want to embarrass her. Anyway, she was a straight shooter, remarkably blunt, and unafraid to call both the good and the bad. Here is what she said in a nutshell.

The biggest problem with the PPACA? Huge number of new enrollments will overwhelm the current supply of doctors and nurses. This is a problem that is ultimately fixable, but it will be a problem, make no mistake.

A relatively minor problem is the overfunding of grants for PPACA navigators, people hired to help citizens find their way through the new program to pick a policy appropriate for them. Too much money was put into the program. The navigators are being paid $20 per hour for an essentially entry level position, and up to $48 per hour for higher levels of management. Oddly enough, the jobs are going begging. You should encourage your son to apply.

Other than that, she raved about the PPACA. It is comprehensive, brilliant in conception, and according to her, it is already impossible to go back. According to her, the PPACA will work, and people will very much like it.

Posted by: phx8 at September 27, 2013 8:35 PM
Comment #371722

phx8

I think it is a fait accompli and that we should just let it play out. If I am wrong and it works great, I am content that Americans have medical care at lower costs. If it crashes and burns and most of its components need to be replaced or fixed, it will sour the American people on liberalism for a generation, much like my experience in the 1970s.

Re my son - he is kind of a man of action type. I don’t think he would like that kind of job. Anyway, he joined the National Guard and he seems to be making contacts that I hope and believe will help him get the kind of job more in tune with his personality. The doldrums won’t last forever. Even Obama policies cannot hold America down forever.

Posted by: CJ at September 27, 2013 9:27 PM
Comment #371726

“She is a federal employee involved in these programs in SW WA…” “Other than that, she raved about the PPACA.”

Wow phx8, you are so easily impressed by a federal bureaucrat. Did you actually expect to hear anything else from her? Why would any bureaucrat, whose well being depends upon government, recognize and admit that any government program is horrible for most working Americans?

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 28, 2013 3:17 PM
Comment #371727

Royal Flush,
Oh! Of course you are right! Someone who is an expert in her field and knows what she is talking about, obviously is not an expert and does not know what she is talking about, since her second job is working with the federal government. And by the way, her financial well-being does not depend upon the government. You are making a bad assumption. Just don’t.

Let’s see… How are things going in the conservative echo chamber bubble today? Well, Global Warming is a hoax, a global conspiracy among scientists to hurt America, and promote socialism. Mmmm.

Hey, how about this? After losing an election- badly- it seems perfectly reasonable to shut down the government and harm the country unless the minority’s demands are met. Why, that is bound to work! And the Democrats and Obama will give in because… because… Well, just because.

Truly, I cannot understand how the conservatives can be so severely disassociated from reality. They believe crazy things that simply are not true. No government can be run with the minority threatening harm to the nation unless its demands are met. There would be no end to it, and the country would fall apart. I can only watch in amazement as the bubble of the conservative echo chamber nears contact with reality once again. This time, the bubble will not just burst- it will explode. There is no way- none- no way, no how- that the GOP can pursue this present course without losing, and losing big, and hurting the whole country in the process. Cruz is actually whipping House crazies to keep it up. The word is that they are so deeply ensconced in the echo chamber, they really believe their own lies. They think this will work! Incredible! They really believe their own lies about the PPACA! And they are doing this just as the great quotes come out from the state exchanges, and people are beginning to see just how good the rates are, how broad the coverage, and more.

Lieception: A lie within a lie. A person who is experiencing Lieception has made up so many lies that they no longer know what really happened and start to believe their own lies, per the film “Inception.”

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2013 4:53 PM
Comment #371728

“You are making a bad assumption.”

Well now, I am impressed. A wealthy person with a brain and second job as an expert bureaucrat in her field to boot. I am just overwhelmed. Perhaps you could persuade her to explain obamacare to the nation and get the approval ratings on it up just a bit as obama himself is incapable of successfully pandering his signature legislation to the majority of Americans.

And then…to add to my discomfort you proclaim…”No government can be run with the minority threatening harm to the nation unless its demands are met.”

OH…MY…and here I thought all the house wanted to do was fund all the government except obamacare. The lack of obamacare will “harm” the nation. How in the hell have we survived for so long without it?

Your concern for conservative legislators is endearing. If only they will listen to reason and become liberals all would be well and they could win elections.


Posted by: Royal Flush at September 28, 2013 5:43 PM
Comment #371729

Elections matter. The GOP shutdown is a ransom demand that undermines the importance of the electoral outcome. It undermines the fundamental ability of government to function, not only today, but in the future as well. This applies to both sides, should the Democrats be in the minority again. Government will never be able to function if the minority party, whoever that might be, repeatedly threatens to harm the country unless its agenda is enacted.

There is only one possible outcome here. The GOP must lose, and lose big. This current behavior is a completely unacceptable form of politics. There is no choice. They must be defeated. No ransom demand can be met. There really is no other choice available that would not leave the country utterly ungovernable.

The PPACA is the law. It passed the House, it passed the Senate, the President signed it, and it was deemed constitutional. In 2012, with the PPACA a major issue, the President decisively won re-election 51 - 47, with 332 electoral votes; the Democrats added seats in the Senate; and they did well in the House too, actually gathering 1.4 million more votes than the GOP.

If conservatives dislike the PPACA, then they need to win elections. If it is as bad as they say, voters will find out. They are finding out right now. It is becoming real and tangible, and this shutdown will not stop it.

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2013 6:16 PM
Comment #371730

Who wrote these famous words?

“The fact that we’re here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

Posted by: Phil at September 28, 2013 6:44 PM
Comment #371731

Phil,
There have been many efforts to bust the chops of those who would raise the debt limit. Reagan did it 18 times. As a Senator, Obama and some Democrats opposed raising it during the Bush administration, but did not threaten to destroy the economy unless their agenda was enacted. There is a VERY big between making a point, which is fine regardless of party affiliation, and actually refusing to raise it and defaulting, which is NOT fine at all. Almost everyone gets that.

Do you?

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2013 7:00 PM
Comment #371732

phx8

Others threatened using the debt limit. Other presidents negotiated with them. Obama has the my was or highway attitude that we have seen in no president in our lifetimes, especially one with such low approval ratings.

I cannot really tell if he is really courageous or just plain narcissistic. My belief is that it is probably closer to narcissistic.

Posted by: CJ at September 28, 2013 7:13 PM
Comment #371733

Could it be that the GOP has grown a backbone? It’s about time. With “leaders” like Romney, McCain, McConnell, et al., compromising conservative principles, why even bother voting for Republicans? The last two Presidential elections were a Democrat vs. a Democrat-Lite. Cruz, Paul, and Lee make the Republican party worth voting for again. I hope they continue to raise hell and give Reid, Pelosi, and our lameduck President a neverending headache. McConnell should step down and let Cruz, Paul, or Lee take his place. Those three leaders represent the heart of the GOP. It’s exciting to watch real leaders finally move Republicans into a positive direction for a change.

Posted by: Ragsdale0509 at September 28, 2013 7:17 PM
Comment #371734

CJ,
The Obama administration and the Democrats have tried negotiating with the GOP repeatedly. Three times they offered the “Grand Bargain,” which included positions most liberals find hard to swallow, such as chained CPI and Medicare adjustments. Each time, the House GOP refused.

Boehner cannot deliver his caucus.

This is why the Hastert Rule has been kicked to the wayside several times. When it has really mattered, it has been up to the ‘sane’ members of the GOP House- about 60 Republicans- and the Democrats to pass important legislation.

The House GOP has become so extreme and radical, it was been unable to pass basic legislation. It failed on the Farm Bill the first try, and unable to pass a Transportation Bill, because those bills were not ‘conservative’ enough. To finally pass the Farm Bill, the House GOP increased farm subsidies, put SNAP (food stamps) in a separate bill, and reduced that program. By historical standards, this is one of the most ineffective Congresses in US history at passing legislation. It might set the all-time record for most ineffective.

The point is, Boehner cannot control his caucus. The most radical and extreme elements are in control right now. Despite warnings from BOTH Democrats and Republicans, these extremists are pushing for a government shutdown, and they will soon push for a default.

Compromise is fine. Obama will do it. The Senate will swallow hard and follow, if necessary. But the only way will be for Boehner and about 1/3 of the House Republicans to vote with the Democrats, and if that happens, it might cost Boehner his job as Speaker.

Ragsdale,
On what planet would a government shutdown and a default on the debt constitute “positive change”? Seriously. That is about as negative as it is possible to get.

If people like Cruz and Paul and Lee are ever in the majority, do you think it would be appropriate for the Democrats to behave the way these people are acting right now? Would it be all right for Democrats to shut down the government, nullify the legislation of the majority, and render the country ungovernable? To lose an election, and then threaten to destroy the economy unless their agenda was enacted in its place?

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2013 7:37 PM
Comment #371736

Obama has never offered to negotiate with any Republicans.

If Conservatives are controlling the agenda of the House, who is controlling the agenda of the Senate?

If Conservatives are speaking for the Republican Party, then it’s for sure leftist/socialist are speaking for the Democrat Party.

The whore Pelosi had so much to say about working to give the Senate a clean CR; but when it came time to vote, she was absent. I guess her 50th anniversary was more important.

Cruz, Paul, and Lee are he future of the Republican Party, get over it. At least we have enough sense to say it’s time for the dinosaurs to go. Your party still puts faith in the likes of Reid, Saunders, and ass wipes like Dicky Durbin.

Does your side ever get tired of throwing out words like “radical” and “extreme”? “Rude” and “Boring”.

Posted by: Phil at September 28, 2013 10:11 PM
Comment #371737

I have always heard that liberals will tell you what they are most scared of; by who they attack. The left really fears conservatives, the Tea Party, and young conservative Hispanic politicians. I love it; and I don’t give a crap if the shut the whole thing down. It’s just like the left’s cries of wolf when it came to sequesters; “the sky is falling”. Nothing, let me say again, nothing happened. Obama lost $67 million in his obamacare slush fund and he miraculously found $300 million to send to Detroit. He’s a lying piece of excrement.

Posted by: Phil at September 28, 2013 10:18 PM
Comment #371738

phx8

Obama’s grand bargain is that he allows Republicans to join him.

Lindsey Graham was on TV today. He had a very sensible proposal that would raise revenue by simplifying the tax codes to eliminate loopholes, which go mostly to the rich. He also proposed cutting back on entitlements and spending.

We have to raise revenue AND cut spending. http://www.bloomberg.com/video/graham-on-fiscal-deal-iran-political-capital-YzjTkIVETk~GHVEMolKC_A.html

It is interesting that Obama is eager to negotiate with foreign terrorists like the Iranians, but rules out negotiations with his fellow Americans.

Posted by: CJ at September 28, 2013 10:32 PM
Comment #371739

C&J,
From the Bloomberg article: “Graham, who breaks with most members of his party in supporting revenue increases…”

Remember the Republican primary debate, when the moderator asked how many candidates would be willing to accept ten dollars in cuts for every one dollar in revenue increases?

Remember the fiscal cliff negotiations and the failure of Boehner’s ‘Plan B’?

The Democrats and Obama have repeatedly offered to negotiate a grand bargain consisting of spending cuts and revenue increases, including cuts like a chained CPI for Social Security and Medicare reforms. Graham’s offer would be well received if it had GOP backing in the House. But in the past, the GOP has repeatedly dropped negotiations because Boehner cannot deliver the votes.

The idea that Obama is unwilling to negotiate is ludicrous.
Do you really not remember?

After the Republican failure during the fiscal cliff negotiations, Republican Congressman Steven LaTourette from OH said:

“It weakens the entire Republican Party, the Republican majority. It’s the continuing dumbing-down of the Republican Party and we are going to be seen more and more as a bunch of extremists that can’t even get a majority of our own people to support policies that we’re putting forward.”

Prescient.

And is it safe to say you oppose Obama negotiating with the Iranians to get them to give up their nuclear program in exchange for better relations? Just want to be clear.

Posted by: phx8 at September 28, 2013 11:38 PM
Comment #371741

Why should Republicans give a rat’s ass about what Democrats think Republican should or shouldn’t do? Why would Democrats want Republicans to become stronger? If Democrats are upset by the actions of Cruz, Paul, and Lee, that’s a sign that they’re doing the right things. Democrats are scared, which is why they’re ratcheting their slim and venom towards those three. Democrats love John McCain and those like him. The more Republicans listen to McCain and those like him the weaker the GOP is.

Posted by: Ragsdale0509 at September 29, 2013 1:07 AM
Comment #371742

Ragsdale & Phil,
So, you like Cruz & Lee & Paul! I see. And you dislike McCain and Graham and Boehner and the other GOP dinosaurs? Well then, you should definitely keep doing what Cruz has done- undermine them at every turn, refuse all compromise, and purify the party by pitting Tea Party candidates against the dinosaurs in the 2012 primaries. By all means. Please do.

If you’re lucky, Boehner will find a way to put a clean CR up for a vote on Monday, letting everyone vote their conscience and putting this in the rear view mirror. That will minimize the loss for the GOP. That’s the smart play. But right now it looks like the party is going to do what you want, follow Cruz & Lee, go the Full Monty, and shut down the government.

Polls show the result will be the same as 1995, a complete disaster for the GOP. Americans will blame Cruz & Lee & Rand, and they will blame people like you. And the Democrats and Reid and Obama will not lift a finger to help.

“Please proceed, Governor.”

Posted by: phx8 at September 29, 2013 1:33 AM
Comment #371745

phx8

Re the Iranians - I don’t think it is a bad idea to talk, considering President Reagan’s caveat of trust but verify.

My point is that President Obama and Democrats often talk of their fellow Americans who oppose them in terms less generous than they do our enemies the Iranians. Obama will negotiate with Iranians but not with Republicans.

Posted by: CJ at September 29, 2013 7:57 AM
Comment #371746
Who wrote these famous words?
Posted by: Phil at September 28, 2013 6:44 PM

I know! I know!

It was our HIC. Hypocrite in Chief. phx8 demonstrates in his next post.

Could you imagine what would happen if a Republican got up and say something like, “Read my lips. No New Taxes.”? Could you imagine what would happen if he later on raised taxes? Would Democratics be making excuses, saying it’s ok to say something and then do another, if they were refering to a Republican?

No, I’m pretty sure they would pull out the political knives and start slashing. The media would also grab onto it and start shaking like a pit bull with a little baby. It would go on for weeks and months. Certainly until the damage was done. Certainly until the people would be so tired of hearing it they would blame the Republican just for the discomfort of it all.

You see, Phil, Democratics are hypocrites to their very core. They can’t help themselves. They have no ideas of their own so the only way they can dominate their opponents is to criticize them. Even if it’s for something they do themselves. Someone should write a song and dance about their hypocrisy. We’ll call it “This will keep us in power”

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 8:19 AM
Comment #371747

phx8, you keep saying we should do it how the Democratics want to do it. You keep saying we should be listening to with what McCain is saying and that Paul and Cruz and Lee are doing it wrong.

News flash, phx8. They were elected because they went to the people and told them they were tired of the way Washington was operating. They said they were going to change the way it operated. They said they were going to be more responsive to the people.

Now, how is going to Washington and getting in line and doing the same thing over and over going to accomplish anything like what they promised their constituents?

It won’t, phx8. Remember the old saying?

You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 8:29 AM
Comment #371748
It is interesting that Obama is eager to negotiate with foreign terrorists like the Iranians, but rules out negotiations with his fellow Americans.

By fellow Americans you mean tea baggers like Cruz, Funny you bring up “foreign terrorist” like the conservative leader of Iran and compare them to the “domestic terrorist” tea bagger conservatives like Cruz, Paul and Lee . But you do have a point, strong and wise leadership by Obama has left the conservatives looking like domestic terrorist.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 29, 2013 8:44 AM
Comment #371749

j2t2, how many people has Cruz, Paul, and Lee killed today?

How many people have they put into the ground? For that matter, how many people have they caused to lose limbs or what property have they destroyed with bombs, like your god’s friend Bill Aires?

You call these patriots terrorists yet you excuse real life, actual terrorists and let them teach your children in university.

Fucking hypocrites! Pardon my language but it’s deserved.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 9:40 AM
Comment #371750

phx8

I know the liberal mind compares an American elected by the people of his state who has not engaged in violence and is in the process of using constitutionally appropriate ways to oppose the president with the leader of a country that has been actively subvert American national interest for more than an generation and whose activities have led directly to the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Americans. It says a lot about you.

It is good that we still have the rule of law in America to keep people like you in check. I have devoted my life to protecting the Constitution and I guess you are among the people I am protecting it from.

Posted by: CJ at September 29, 2013 10:04 AM
Comment #371751
j2t2, how many people has Cruz, Paul, and Lee killed today?

You are right Weary, I should add economic to the description. “Domestic economic terrorist” would be even closer to the point.

How many people have they put into the ground? For that matter, how many people have they caused to lose limbs or what property have they destroyed with bombs, like your god’s friend Bill Aires?

Perhaps this is a fundamental difference between conservatives and the rest of us Weary. Because I defend Obama doesn’t really mean I also deify him. Because Obama meet someone doesn’t mean they are friends, we have layers such as acquaintances and such. It seem you guys are so full of yourselves it is an all or nothing proposition. Do you deify Cruz or Paul, Weary? Yet you agree with them on certain issues. See the difference?

You call these patriots terrorists yet you excuse real life, actual terrorists and let them teach your children in university.

You call them Patriots yet you excuse them solely because they come waving a flag and holding a bible. Patriots do not hold the country hostage Weary. As far as Ayers why do you dig so far in the past? He has been a professor much longer than a leader of the Weather Underground. He has been a professor in this decade, this year, in fact currently. Cruz on the other hand is holding the county hostage because of myths misinformation half truths and outright lies he and other conservatives have spread for years on Obamacare. Yet you call me the hypocrite, laughable were it not so heart felt by you Weary. The delusions you believe that would allow you to support a tea bagger like Cruz is sad.

Fucking hypocrites! Pardon my language but it’s deserved.

No its not Weary it is a result of anger and hatred due to drinking to much kool aid from the conservative propaganda machine. Were you able to present a logical argument why Cruz et al are not deserving of the term you wouldn’t need to use such words. But all you can do is point to someone else which is illogical.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 29, 2013 11:21 AM
Comment #371752

“They [Democrats] have no ideas of their own so the only way they can dominate their opponents is to criticize them.”

Weary, please! Let’s start with health care reform. Would you please enlighten us as to the Republican alternative. Based upon their lack of proposals, they appear to have none. Republicans vote repeatedly to repeal Obamacare but have not presented an alternative. Do you know of any?

Talk about a party that has no ideas!

Posted by: Rich at September 29, 2013 11:23 AM
Comment #371753

“Former House Speaker and presidential candidate Newt Gingrich reprimanded his fellow Republicans in unusually harsh terms Wednesday, blaming GOP members of Congress for developing “zero” alternatives to President Obama’s health care reform law.”

“I will bet you, for most of you, you go home in the next two weeks when your members of Congress are home, and you look them in the eye and you say, ‘What is your positive replacement for Obamacare?’ They will have zero answer,”

“We are caught up right now in a culture, and you see it every single day, where as long as we are negative and as long as we are vicious and as long as we can tear down our opponent, we don’t have to learn anything,” Gingrich said, acknowledging the “totally candid” nature of his remarks. “We have to do the homework.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/14/gingrich-republicans-have-zero-health-care-ideas/

Posted by: Rich at September 29, 2013 11:33 AM
Comment #371754

C&J, first of all why do you think the leaders of another nation , say Iran , should be held accountable for “actively subvert American national interest for more than an generation”? Should we be held accountable for “actively subvert Iranian national interest for more than an generation”? Blaming them for the deaths of these “hundreds of thousands” Americans is a bit overboard as well. Were it true why didn’t GWB invade Iran instead of Iraq? But either way blaming them for our decision to protect the interests of our oil companies in the middle east as well as our other interests is kinda sad. Why not accept responsibility for our actions? Propping up right wing dictators such as the Shah leads to repercussions over time.

It is good that we still have the rule of law in America to keep people like you in check.

Not just me C&J. Those innocent “Patriots”, you know the tea baggers, the right wing likes to use as a hammer against the rest of us may need to be kept in check. Especially the delusional ones. But then using your logic it is you and other conservative propagandist that are responsible for these guy actions, right?


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/26/tea-party-supporter-has-set-a-date-for-the-armed-overthrow-of-the-government/

Posted by: j2t2 at September 29, 2013 11:53 AM
Comment #371755

WW,
“They were elected because they went to the people and told them they were tired of the way Washington was operating. They said they were going to change the way it operated. They said they were going to be more responsive to the people.”

Shutting down the government is being more responsive to the people?

Threatening to harm all Americans unless their political demands are met is being more responsive?

Elections matter. Obama won. The Democrats added seats in the Senate. The Democrats did well in the House, too. The PPACA is law. It was passed by the House and the Senate, signed by the president, and ruled constitutional by the Supreme Court.

There have been 41 attempts to repeal the PPACA. All failed. The people responded.

To then shut down the government unless the law is repealed (or delayed- same thing) can not be called “responsive to the people” under any scenario. The people have spoken with their votes.

Want to repeal the PPACA? Win elections. THAT is how it is done in America, buddy. Win the White House. Take control of the Senate. Try winning elections. Not taking the country hostage unless political demands are met.

Do you really think it is possible to win elections by burying ‘moderate’ Republicans like McCain and Graham and Burr and Corker and Murkowski and more, and Representatives Michael Grimm and Pete King (NY) and many more? These are people who are bedrock conservatives. They just happen to believe need to govern, and that involves compromises, and when that is not possible, principled opposition.

Not hostage taking. Because that is what shutting down the government involves.

Posted by: phx8 at September 29, 2013 12:01 PM
Comment #371756
As far as Ayers why do you dig so far in the past?
Is Nixon a great guy now, j2t2? How about Reagan? Is he forgiven, since it’s been so far in the past?

How many buildings did Cruz bomb, j2t2? Answer the question. Ok. I will.

NONE!

How many laws did Paul break, j2t2? Answer the question!

NONE!

And now, when your hypocrisy is called out and shown to the world you qualify and excuse!

I should add economic to the description.

You make excuses like a third grader. Pure rhetoric and slander. It’s all a lie.

Quit lying, j2t2! My hands and feet aren’t tied. I’m not stuffed in the trunk of a car and stolen away. I’m not a hostage and neither is this country. It’s your rhetoric and slander that’s holding this country back. You vehemently oppose any change that would move this country out of these doldrums. Democratics are ignoring the people when it comes to Obamacare. They have their fingers in their ears, their eyes screwed shut, and they are screaming like children so as not to hear what the American People are saying about it.

What is it, about 30% in favor of Obamacare? That sounds like a liberal number i.e. the % of the population that is liberal in this country. That tells me liberals like it because of partisan reasons and couldn’t give a damn if it’s good or bad for this country.

You bang out the phrase “echo chamber” like you’re suffering from turrets syndrome, j2t2. Yet, liberals act like they have a bucket over their head. They only hear themselves talk. They always agree with themselves, and they’re always right! That sounds like a mental disorder, not a political philosophy.

“We were friendly, that was true; we served on a couple of boards together, that was true; he held a fundraiser in our living room, that was true; Michelle [Obama] and Bernardine were at the law firm together, that was true. Hyde Park in Chicago is a tiny neighborhood, so when he said I was ‘a guy around the neighborhood,’ that was true.”
Read more about the lie here.

Sounds a little more that “Uh, I think I met the guy.” or “I’ve seen him around”. A little more than an acquaintance, having worked together, having fundraisers for him, wives worked together, starting a political career for the guy. I wish someone I didn’t know, right off the street, would treat me like that, eh? But then I’m not a hypocrite.

Do you deify Cruz or Paul, Weary?

I respect them, j2t2. I respect them for taking a stand and sticking to it. Do you, j2t2? I doubt it. I can’t imagine you knowing the meaning of someone sticking to their word. Obama has lied so many times he can’t be trusted to tell us the color of the sky or if the grass is green. Yet you still support him. Again, not for principal, but for partisan reasons.

Why shouldn’t I be angry and hate liberalism, j2t2? It’s a pathetic and immoral philosophy. It’s only goal is to dominate and control. It’s only outcome is to overthrow the American way of life and to destroy the constitution. Yes, I am angry at the blatant hypocrisy the Democratics use as a weapon against their opponents. They cannot win in the arena of ideas because their ideas are bankrupt of morals and void of values the rest of us hold close.

I can’t wait for the American people to put to use the Anti-Trust laws to bust up the monopoly the MSM and the Democratic Party has over the dissemination of information in this country. I long for the bloggers that perform real journalism to gain traction and start exposing this hypocrisy for what it is. I am looking forward to more people having the courage to speak up against the destruction of the constitution and I am actively supporting the education of our children, in private and home schools, of the U.S. Constitution, individual responsibility, and respect for others.

When that happens liberalism will be dead. Hurray!

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 12:29 PM
Comment #371757

j2t2

I see the other side, but I am pro-American, not the other way around.

I would expect that even a partisan like you would extend the same courtesy to fellow Americans as you do to leaders of states who have been our avowed and deadly enemies since before most Americans were born.

Re keeping you all in check - I am in favor of the Constitution keeping all the lunatic fringes in check. There are people on both right and left that I would not want to associate with. If they keep within Constitutional bounds, however, I don’t lump them in with foreign enemies.

Re being responsible for actions of others, sometimes I think you are deliberately obtuse. You compare the responsibly of a leader who has been actively involved with something for thirty years and now has legitimate authority over it, with someone like me who has no association with people who you want to associate me with. You really are not that dumb, are you? Let’s not argue for things in our rhetoric that we know are not true.

Phx8

Re elections - the Republicans you so dislike were also elected by their constituents. Elections do matter.

Posted by: CJ at September 29, 2013 12:43 PM
Comment #371758

“They cannot win in the arena of ideas because their ideas are bankrupt of morals and void of values the rest of us hold close.”

OK, Weary. I will ask you again to tell us about the legislation that Republicans have put forward as an alternative to Obamacare. Gingrich says that you cannot for a very simple reason: there are none.

I also would like to remark about your holier than thou attitude about morals and values: self aggrandizing puffery.

Posted by: Rich at September 29, 2013 12:52 PM
Comment #371759
Shutting down the government is being more responsive to the people?
Quit lying, phy8! The bill will fund the government except for Obamacare. You know, the law that Obama has exempted unions, congress, and big business from? Why shouldn’t everyone under the law be exempt until this “train wreck” (a Democratic’s term) is fixed or repealed? Why shouldn’t everyone be treated equally, phx8?

If anyone is shutting down the government is will be the Democratic Senate and Obama. Obama is a Democratic, too. That means Democratics will be shutting down the government, not Republicans.


Threatening to harm all Americans unless their political demands are met is being more responsive?

All Americans!? The last time the government shut down I asked myself, “The government is shut down?” I didn’t feel a thing. It didn’t hurt me at all.

Where was all this gnashing of teeth and flailing of hands when Democratics refused to address the 2008 recession and instead concentrated on Obamacare to the exclusion of everything else and without a single Republican vote? Talk about political demands! Democratics went back to their districts and started calling their constituents names and threatening them instead of listening to them. Your people have a lot of nerve accusing Republicans of breaking laws (arson, terrorism, extortion) when bribery was the dominant reason why Obamacare was passed in the first place.

If Obamacare is such a great thing, phx8, then why can’t everyone be treated equally and suspend it until after the 2014 election? If elections mean something then 2014 will be the icing on your cake, the nail in the conservative coffin, yes? What, no courage to wait? No balls?

As far as who you call conservatives, I don’t think you have a clue what a real conservative is. You can only see a criminal.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 12:56 PM
Comment #371760


Here’s A Conservative Alternative to ObamaCare, Rich.

It took me all of 2 minutes to find it. It’s just one of many out there if you would take the initiative to look for them.

Or, would you rather just stick a bucket over your head and talk to yourself.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 1:07 PM
Comment #371761


OK, Weary. I will ask you again to tell us about the legislation that Republicans have put forward as an alternative to Obamacare.

Oh! Look! Here’s another one!

the American Health Care Reform Bill (HR 3121)

There you go, Rich. Now, if you keep saying Republicans offer no alternative you are either a liar or a Democratic. Oh, wait. There’s no difference, is there?


Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 1:22 PM
Comment #371762

This is bizarre and childish. We are going to hold the entire government hostage if you don’t allow us to kill a duly authorized law that we cannot repeal through normal legislative procedures.

Obama is supposed to negotiate with that approach? He would be a complete idiot to do so.

The Iranian analogy is nuts. If the Iranians had entered into a legal treaty agreement with the US after long negotiations and deliberations by both countries, I guess you would find it reasonable for Obama to revisit the negotiations because some fundamentalists in Iran don’t want to actually comply with the treaty. Very understandable.

Posted by: Rich at September 29, 2013 1:31 PM
Comment #371763


Is There a Republican Alternative to Obamacare?

Why any honest person would tell you there is! It’s the H.R. 2520 (111th): Patients’ Choice Act

The problem is there aren’t a lot of honest people who would want an alternative to be known.


Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 1:32 PM
Comment #371764

Obama is the darling of the socialists, and obamacare is the crowning achievement of Obama. Obamacare is the ONLY thing Obama can claim he has done. Obamacare is a complete disaster and it has even been claimed as a “train wreck” and “failure” by those in the Democratic Party. But what to do…it can’t be repealed…it can’t be defunded…it can’t be postponed, WHY…because it would make Obama a complete failure for his 8 years in office. The left and the democrats in general are willing to watch the economy go further down the crapper, the loss of employment, the increase of HC policies, simply for the purpose of protecting a failed president. Obama will go down in history as the worse and most divisive president America has ever had. It’s interesting, when he ran on the platform of “unity, transparency, and change”; none of which he has done. Obama is like a spoiled little boy who wants his way or he will take his toys and go home. How long will these idiots on WB continue to try to defend his actions.

Regarding the funding of the government; the left on WB continue the talking point lies of the Obama administration. It is a lie to say Republicans want to shut down the government. The last bill the House sent to the Senate funded the government 100% and the latest bill being sent to the Senate will fund the government 100%. So it’s a lie.

Posted by: Political Hostage at September 29, 2013 1:34 PM
Comment #371765

Obama has no problem giving waivers to unions, congress, large corporations, who ask for it. He has, by himself, negated this “duly authorized law” on his own. Why can’t he extend this courtesy to the rest of us? Why is he unwilling to compromise on this?

Like I said, No balls? If this is such a good law then why can’t he accept a one-year extension to work out the bugs?

I’ll answer that. Because elections matter.


Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 1:46 PM
Comment #371766

To the left, listen if you dare:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50156080n

Posted by: Political Hostage at September 29, 2013 1:52 PM
Comment #371767

OMG! Another Republican alternative to Obamacare!

DETAILS: Summary of Republican Study Committee’s alternative to Obamacare

Lift bucket.
Open eyes.
Pull out fingers from ears.
Stop screaming.
Start listening.

It’s called cooperation.

Whew! I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, but then I would sound like a Democratic.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 2:00 PM
Comment #371768

I believe the Republicans should let ObamaCare through. My belief is that Obama himself will postpone more of the key elements. Obama doesn’t believe in his program, but he is trying to shift the blame for its failure to the Republicans.

Posted by: CJ at September 29, 2013 2:07 PM
Comment #371769

“This is bizarre and childish. We are going to hold the entire government hostage if you don’t allow us to kill a duly authorized law that we cannot repeal through normal legislative procedures.

Obama is supposed to negotiate with that approach? He would be a complete idiot to do so.”

What is bizarre is the left who believes a law cannot be changed. Obama has repeatedly postponed elements of the law; the ones that suit his constituents, but for some reason the left thinks a law is written in stone and cannot be changed. The only laws written in stone and cannot be changed are the Ten Commandments. Unless the left, once again, wants to compare Obama to God Almighty?

As I said before, I hope the Conservatives hold Obama’s and the Democrat’s feet to the fire. Since 60% of Americans don’t want Obamacare, why should the 60% be held hostage by 30%?

Posted by: Phil at September 29, 2013 2:19 PM
Comment #371770

The problem with allowing Obama to decide who pays for obamacare and who doesn’t is that is completely unfair for the rest who will have to pay penalties or pay high prices for ins. Although, Obama will piss a lot of Americans off prior to the 2014 elections. I don’t know what is going to happen next year, but it will be interesting.

I would consider myself as upper middle-class and of course many of my friends are African-American; and, I am seeing a lot of discontent with Obama and his policies. There is a movement among middle-class blacks to view Obama’s policies as racist and definitely not uniting America. But we do realize that many of the low information blacks still believe Obama is the second coming. Kind of like the leftist on WB.

Posted by: Political Hostage at September 29, 2013 2:30 PM
Comment #371771

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2Eoum_fXIY

It’s refreshing to listen to someone with enough intelligence to discuss politics, instead of “whining and crying about what’s fair”. It’s a shame we don’t have politicians with the intelligence of Mark Levine.

Posted by: Political Hostage at September 29, 2013 2:57 PM
Comment #371772

Stop with the liar stuff, Weary.

I understand that there have been a smattering of GOP proposals. What characterizes them is that they die in Committee. The GOP legislators are not serious about proposing an alternative. Why? Because their proposals would be highly unpopular with the public. The essence of the proposals, like the McCain concept in 2008, is to replace the current employer based system with a full individual insurance market. The huge federal tax expenditure for employer coverage would be eliminated and replaced by individual tax credits to be used for purchase of insurance. This would increase federal revenue to the extent not offset by the individual insurance tax credits.

It would result in a bare bones subsidized individual insurance market since the current tax advantages of employer group insurance would disappear. You would pay for insurance above the basics with after tax dollars.

In my opinion, this is a true radical change. Perhaps worth debating but it clearly would be a shock to the general public. You won’t get to keep your current health plan under the GOP alternatives.

Posted by: Rich at September 29, 2013 3:15 PM
Comment #371773

Rich, either you didn’t read the bill or you are lying!

The gop plans would provide incentives not subsidies. It would also put the market for individuals on an equal footing with employer based insurance and paid for with pre-tax dollars.

To be honest, your opinion isn’t worth spit to me because Obamacare is a shock to the general public and people are already being kicked off their current health care plans. So, you are just showing more hypocrisy by criticizing/lying about the republican’s, perhaps fictitious, repercussions, while the same repercussions are fact under the Obamacare plan.

Posted by: Weary Willie at September 29, 2013 3:44 PM
Comment #371774

Since the passage of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974, the Senate and the House are supposed to pass budget resolutions in the spring. These budget resolutions set a framework for spending, taxation and other fiscal items in the coming fiscal year. They also lay out general plans for the next four years. If these budget resolutions differ, the chambers are supposed to hammer out a compromise.

Budget resolutions are policy plans. They are not appropriations bills, or spending bills, which actually allocate money for specific purposes.

If a budget resolution doesn’t pass, the federal government won’t go dark. In the absence of a budget resolution, appropriations bills have continued to allocate money.

The U.S. House passed seven of the 12 annual appropriations bills this year and sent them to the Senate for consideration, according to the status report by Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee. The Senate Appropriations Committee also approved 11 of the 12 spending bills and sent them to the full Senate for consideration.

An independent search by PolitiFact via the Library of Congress’ Thomas bill-tracking web site confirmed the figures cited in the GOP report.

But none of the bills approved by the House or the Senate Appropriations Committee were ever brought to the Senate floor for a vote. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who decides which bills will be considered, told reporters on July 10, 2012, that no spending bills were likely to be approved this year because of an ongoing dispute with House Republicans over how much the federal government should spend.

True to his word, Reid so far has not brought any of the annual spending bills to the floor this year, necessitating the short-term budget measure to keep the government running for another six months.

Posted by: Royal Flush at September 29, 2013 3:51 PM
Comment #371786
I see the other side, but I am pro-American, not the other way around.

We are all pro American C&J. Seeing and then ignoring the other side is perhaps why 30 years later we are still dealing with the Iranians.

I would expect that even a partisan like you would extend the same courtesy to fellow Americans as you do to leaders of states who have been our avowed and deadly enemies since before most Americans were born.

So you are suggesting that because Obama is in talks with the Iranians he should therefore be in talks with the baggers trying to repeal the ACA? But why extend the same courtesy to Cruz when Cruz has been proven to not be willing to negotiate because getting rid of Obamacare is a “principle”? Perhaps 30 years from now, using your logic, Cruz should be dealt with.

Re keeping you all in check - I am in favor of the Constitution keeping all the lunatic fringes in check. There are people on both right and left that I would not want to associate with. If they keep within Constitutional bounds, however, I don’t lump them in with foreign enemies.

C&J you did lump them with foreign enemies to the same extent I did. You used these “foreign enemies” as reasoning for Obama to negotiate with Cruz and the extremist in the HOR. As illogical as it may be that is what has happened. It was Weary that has compared the two with the many questions he had. Reread what it was I said and you will see the exaggeration in your analysis of my comment.

Re being responsible for actions of others, sometimes I think you are deliberately obtuse. You compare the responsibly of a leader who has been actively involved with something for thirty years and now has legitimate authority over it, with someone like me who has no association with people who you want to associate me with. You really are not that dumb, are you? Let’s not argue for things in our rhetoric that we know are not true.

No C&J you are mistaken. I am saying Cruz and his ilk have gained a foothold in Congress because of conservative propaganda. Read the link and see why these guys are advocating for the armed overthrow of our government.

It is my premise that conservatives have been told so many lies about Obamacare from sources such as yourself that they are living in fear of it (Look at the rantings of the conservatives here on WB). They have forgotten the ACA originated in a conservative think tank and was put into place in Massachusetts by a conservative republican prior to going national. I have tried telling you on several different occasions your rhetoric has swung to the extreme right as you fed the movement followers with myths misinformation half truths and outright lies of the conservative propagandist for years now.


Like I said, No balls? If this is such a good law then why can’t he accept a one-year extension to work out the bugs? I’ll answer that. Because elections matter.

Obama is in his second term Weary, so he won’t be running again. I would say he shouldn’t fall for this deceptive ploy by the same guys who have tried unsuccessfully 40+ times to repeal the ACA. Their intentions are dishonest and based upon fear mongering by conservatives.

Posted by: j2t2 at September 29, 2013 10:02 PM
Comment #371790

In a Study of the Most Divisive Laws over the Past 100 Years, Obama Lands the Top Two

Posted by: Political Hostage at September 29, 2013 11:38 PM
Comment #371791

The news channels and newspapers are covering the enrollment process for the PPACA on 10/1. They are presenting short versions on what the PPACA involves and who will be affected.

It is nothing like what conservatives are representing. The conservatives are spreading a lot of lies and fear, totally unhinged stuff. But the exchanges will open for enrollment this week, and people will see for themselves, and seeing is believing.

Best of all, the Republicans are shutting down the government to prevent people from signing up for great insurance, even though the exchanges are open and taking enrollments. To most people, this will seem bizarre. Why shut down the government if the exchanges are taking enrollments?

I still think the smart move will be for Boehner to fold tomorrow, and let the House pass a clean CR. At least two Republican Congressmen have already said there are enough votes among Republicans to pass one. It is the only move that makes sense. Failure to do so increases the magnitude of the eventual and certain Republican defeat.

Posted by: phx8 at September 30, 2013 12:28 AM
Comment #371792

j2t2

“We are all pro American C&J. Seeing and then ignoring the other side is perhaps why 30 years later we are still dealing with the Iranians.”

You missed the point. In any conflict there are two sides. But if you are one of those sides, you have to pick yours. Weak negotiators get hung up in grievances, real and often imagined, of the other side and are paralyzed by them.

The irony is that you see “two sides” when talking about Iranian enemies, but see only your own when talking about American opponents.

Re Obama talking - I just think that we should extend at least as much “understanding” to fellow Americans as we do to foreign enemies.

Re foreign enemies - I did not lump them with American. I specifically said that American deserve at least as much consideration as foreign enemies.

Re “No C&J you are mistaken. I am saying Cruz and his ilk have gained a foothold in Congress because of conservative propaganda. Read the link and see why these guys are advocating for the armed overthrow of our government.”

How Cruz got into congress is not my responsibility. I don’t particularly agree with what he is doing now and I don’t vote in the State of Texas.

Re ” your rhetoric has swung to the extreme right as you fed the movement followers with myths misinformation half truths and outright lies of the conservative propagandist for years now.”

In this you are just plain full or shit. I have never written anything on these pages that I believed to be a lie, myth, misinformation or half truth and none of you have ever been able to demonstrate otherwise. Please give me an example of where I have lied to you and I will cheerfully demolish your childish point of view. But I warn you never to accuse me of that again unless you can back it up.

I generally cut you a little slack, since I see that you don’t always understand nuance. You are entitled to your opinion, but I will have to correct your facts when they concern me.

Posted by: CJ at September 30, 2013 5:57 AM
Comment #371793

See? Democratics have no problem lying in their effort to make a point. Lies slides off their tongue like spit and it bothers them not in the least.
The people they slander are the victim and the people who read their lies are none the wiser. They believe the poison and are tainted because they don’t know the truth.

It’s sickening how this behavior plays out in politics, the business environment, our children’s schools, and social settings. Democratics have no morals. They have only a dishonest, self centered, vindictive, hypocritical, win-at-all-costs mentality.

And they think people with guns are dangerous. Guns aren’t half as dangerous as a Democratic with a forum.


Posted by: Weary Willie at September 30, 2013 9:07 AM
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